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This is Nat bs, most of the inventions in the individual webpages were done post-1707, i.e. they were all British. It seems a bit of nationalist-racist-ignorant agenda to not have a collective page of all British inventions, all those invented after 1707. I don't mind having a separate Scottish, English and Welsh page, but it just stinks of the kinda small-minded cave-troll mind of some Scot nats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.124.4 ( talk) 11:30, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
This is massively disorganised. Utter chaos. We really ought to have some kind of standard for what counts as an invention, rather than just listing things which are vaguely on the topic of British innovation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.26.44 ( talk) 20:35, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I removed from the article the claim that a Brit, John Wilkins, was the inventor of the earliest concept of a Metric system as such an exceptional claim naturally requires robust evidence (see WP:EXCEPTIONAL) - here it had no evidence at all. MeasureIT ( talk) 23:19, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I have now removed it from the article again as I believe the current consensus at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#That Englishman John Wilkins invented the metric system is that we cannot reliably support a claim that Wilkins invented this. MeasureIT ( talk) 22:57, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
For reference, this discussion was flagged on the UK Wikipedians' notice board on 28 September 2014 to help give it wider awareness. Whizz40 ( talk) 07:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
The content of this article was copied and pasted from List of English inventions and discoveries and List of Scottish inventions and discoveries in September 2011. While this may have been in good faith, it has not produced the desired result. Editors' efforts are now divided across two articles (British/English or British/Scottish etc) on any one topic. This reduces the interaction between editors and reduces the quality of the articles available to readers. The English/Scottish articles are the primary pages because they have more page views, more pages link to them (122/334 respectively compared with 30 for this page) and were established earlier. This article was originally set up to describe how the lists of British inventions are organised across a number of articles.
To bring editors and readers together in one article, I propose we remove the content from this article and focus on the English/Scottish articles with links to those articles here. The rationale for this is to generate the most collaboration and produce the best quality articles. There have been a number of edits this week by User:BanterChanelle, but prior to this, editing has been slow with only a proportion being improvements. The edits that are improvements would be available in the history and would need to be transferred to the English/Scottish/etc articles which would generate the collaboration and improvement proposed. I am happy to help with this. This page would go back to its original purpose of describing how the lists of British inventions are organised (and the recently added list of Top 10 British inventions could stay here as well). Whizz40 ( talk) 05:46, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
@ BanterChanelle what are your thoughts and would you be able to make the same edits you made on this article to one of the existing English, Scottish or Welsh articles linked above? Whizz40 ( talk) 22:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Lists of British inventions →
List of British inventions and discoveries – More complete and accurate article title, consistent with the content of the article and consistent with similar articles such as
List of English inventions and discoveries and
Scottish inventions and discoveries.
Whizz40 (
talk)
07:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment how about "List of Inventions British people like to commonly believe they invented" ? This list needs serious work to be accurate. Perhaps an asterisk next to every "british" invention that was invented somewhere else? On the whole though, linguistically I support the move, but the whole topic is disgustingly nationalistic tripe. ~ip user
While there is historical background to this article, I believe it should be deleted and started from whole cloth. Save it for a bit to use as a template, but many of the links are uncited, much of it is flat out wrong, and the whole thing is overly nationalistic. Further, it's in violation of wiki policy, to quote wikipedia itself...
"Wikipedia encompasses many lists of links to articles within Wikipedia that are used for internal organization or to describe a notable subject. In that sense, Wikipedia functions as an index or directory of its own content. However, Wikipedia is not a directory of everything in the universe that exists or has existed. Please see Wikipedia:Alternative outlets for alternatives. Wikipedia articles are not: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as (but not limited to) quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are relevant because they are associated with or significantly contribute to the list topic. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. Merged groups of small articles based on a core topic are permitted. (See Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Appropriate topics for lists for clarification.)"
I know there is a move discussion going on now, but this should just be changed straight away. ~ip user
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.191.33 ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I guess a question is how should we proceed from here. If other editors agree, we could take an incremental approach. First, supporting the article move, requested above, to go ahead because it is a small step in the right direction and a no-regrets action. Then we can work on improving the article in the normal way. If we want to reorganise it into a timeline then we can add section headings eg by century and move the content, improving it as we go. Once progress is made, another move request can be made to Timeline of British inventions and discoveries (a redirect from List of British inventions and discoveries would be helpful anyway). IP 90, if you're ok with this, we could remove the AFD tag. Whizz40 ( talk) 15:01, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
I recommend not feeding the troll, who is destined to be blocked from editing, and sticking to ordinary research, citation, and editing of verifiable facts. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 20:06, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyways, I still think this should be turned into a timeline and this article as it stands should be deleted, but I really don't want to work with people like this. Cheers ~~ip user 90.201.191.33 ( talk) 08:06, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
For reference, this discussion was flagged on the UK Wikipedians' notice board on 1 April 2015 to help give it wider awareness. Whizz40 ( talk) 07:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Continuing the discussions above about converting this article to a timeline. As Dennis Bratland said, "A timeline lets you tell a country's history of science and technology", other editors commented on this becoming a timeline as well. Adding innovations back into the timeline was suggested and, since they are already in the list, past editors would likely agree; Dennis' experience with other articles like this is that there is "greatest potential for consensus if the criteria are loosened so that we don't make strong assertions as to what is an invention or partial invention or shared invention, and what is truly British or German or whatever. ... New technology that is important and relevant to country X can go on the timeline, without having to worry about whether that technology is the sole invention of Country X, or an immigrant from X to Y, or whether it's a true invention or merely a refinement of an existing invention/discovery/design/etc." So we could covert this list into a Timeline of British innovation and discovery, similar to Timeline of Russian innovation. If other editors have views on this or would like to work together on improving the article please jump in. Whizz40 ( talk) 09:54, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved - currently the article does not meet the guidelines for timelines at WP:Timelines or WP:Timeline standards. While the timeline format may indeed be the better way to approach this content, the article should be converted to a timeline consistent with the guidelines first before renaming. As it stands today, the article is a list. Mike Cline ( talk) 15:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
List of British inventions and discoveries →
Timeline of British innovation and discovery – As discussed on the Talk page, propose converting this list to a timeline inclusive of innovations.
Whizz40 (
talk)
05:22, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Given that the only reason this wasn't moved to a timeline was that the format needs to be changed first, we don't need to go through them motions of another move discussion. Once it has been reformatted as a timeline, boldly go ahead and move to the new title without further discussion. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 17:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
As i read this list, i have to say, many innovations, which are listed here, are disputed or not British innovations and discoveries. Hutzre ( talk) 19:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Hutzre ( talk) 19:56, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
{{
cite book}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |first=
(
help)
"List of British innovations and discoveries" gives us topical relevance (these are exclusively British innovations and discoveries) and this unambiguously clear article title should be followed by a lead that makes direct statements about the criteria by which members of the list were selected ( MOS:SAL). Instead the lead goes off this guideline, immediately trying to claim 10 "British innovations" then state right after that "Many of the ten inventions listed above can not be claimed simply by British inventors".
This needs to be de-weaseled and the list its self should conform to WP:CSC, every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia, and that article should state up front this is a British innovation or discovery. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 16:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Added a paragraph consistent with MOS:SAL ("Stand-alone lists should begin with a lead section that summarizes its content, provides any necessary background information, gives encyclopedic context, links to other relevant articles, and makes direct statements about the criteria by which members of the list were selected") and WP:Lead, also comparable with Timeline of United States inventions (1890–1945) and Timeline of chemistry. Whizz40 ( talk) 22:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:56, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
For a start the Nobel Prize for the MRI machine went to Peter Mansfield who was born in Lambeth and was a Professor at the University of Nottingham and not John Mallard and James Huchinson. The CT Scan was also developed by an Englishman Sir Godfrey Hounsfield, who also won a Noble Prize, and his name is immortalised in the Hounsfield scale, a quantitative measure of radiodensity used in evaluating CT scans.
/info/en/?search=Peter_Mansfield
/info/en/?search=Godfrey_Hounsfield
These are just two names missed off the list, and they were a lot of English Scientific Innovators and not just Scotsmen.
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So I am a scientist at a British Institution. In the contracts, anything that we do is of course the Intellectual Property of the Institution, thus, British. If a Swiss scientist working at a British Institution did something remarkable, it would surely be classed as a British Invention. For the sake of argument, thus, don't the Swiss have just as much right to call the World Wide Web their invention, as they were the ones funding Tim Berners-Lee when he did the work. It wasn't supported in any way by the British Government, Taxpayers, etc. If it were a Swiss guy doing it at Cambridge, we'd class it as a British Invention, even though he was Swiss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CA32:CC00:392E:2169:B08C:B7AC ( talk) 08:03, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
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Other than some name spelling errors (Mc and Mac are always followed by a capital letter not small case, it is a compound word) it should be noted that there are also nationality errors on this page. A Scotsman is not an "English" anything. England and Scotland are two separate sovereign nations that are only joined by a Union Act. The United Kingdom of the British Isles is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The UK is not called England. It is clear that this page was created by a foreign source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:41BF:9301:1022:8633:2C78:DC7A ( talk) 17:07, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the lead did not seem to WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, this is not an article about patents or their influence nor is it a place to (make points about British superiority?). It refered to the Industrial Revolution redundantly. It contained the unsourced statement/off topic statement "Experimentation was considered central to innovation by groups such as the Royal Society, which was founded in 1660." "encouraged invention and spurred on the Industrial Revolution from the late 18th century which began in Britain" was contradicted by its own source "one cannot infer too much from patent statistics particularly in this formative era of the patent system". The sources in general seem to be opinion and should not be put in Wikipedia's voice. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 14:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
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This is Nat bs, most of the inventions in the individual webpages were done post-1707, i.e. they were all British. It seems a bit of nationalist-racist-ignorant agenda to not have a collective page of all British inventions, all those invented after 1707. I don't mind having a separate Scottish, English and Welsh page, but it just stinks of the kinda small-minded cave-troll mind of some Scot nats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.124.4 ( talk) 11:30, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
This is massively disorganised. Utter chaos. We really ought to have some kind of standard for what counts as an invention, rather than just listing things which are vaguely on the topic of British innovation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.26.44 ( talk) 20:35, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I removed from the article the claim that a Brit, John Wilkins, was the inventor of the earliest concept of a Metric system as such an exceptional claim naturally requires robust evidence (see WP:EXCEPTIONAL) - here it had no evidence at all. MeasureIT ( talk) 23:19, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I have now removed it from the article again as I believe the current consensus at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#That Englishman John Wilkins invented the metric system is that we cannot reliably support a claim that Wilkins invented this. MeasureIT ( talk) 22:57, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
For reference, this discussion was flagged on the UK Wikipedians' notice board on 28 September 2014 to help give it wider awareness. Whizz40 ( talk) 07:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
The content of this article was copied and pasted from List of English inventions and discoveries and List of Scottish inventions and discoveries in September 2011. While this may have been in good faith, it has not produced the desired result. Editors' efforts are now divided across two articles (British/English or British/Scottish etc) on any one topic. This reduces the interaction between editors and reduces the quality of the articles available to readers. The English/Scottish articles are the primary pages because they have more page views, more pages link to them (122/334 respectively compared with 30 for this page) and were established earlier. This article was originally set up to describe how the lists of British inventions are organised across a number of articles.
To bring editors and readers together in one article, I propose we remove the content from this article and focus on the English/Scottish articles with links to those articles here. The rationale for this is to generate the most collaboration and produce the best quality articles. There have been a number of edits this week by User:BanterChanelle, but prior to this, editing has been slow with only a proportion being improvements. The edits that are improvements would be available in the history and would need to be transferred to the English/Scottish/etc articles which would generate the collaboration and improvement proposed. I am happy to help with this. This page would go back to its original purpose of describing how the lists of British inventions are organised (and the recently added list of Top 10 British inventions could stay here as well). Whizz40 ( talk) 05:46, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
@ BanterChanelle what are your thoughts and would you be able to make the same edits you made on this article to one of the existing English, Scottish or Welsh articles linked above? Whizz40 ( talk) 22:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Lists of British inventions →
List of British inventions and discoveries – More complete and accurate article title, consistent with the content of the article and consistent with similar articles such as
List of English inventions and discoveries and
Scottish inventions and discoveries.
Whizz40 (
talk)
07:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment how about "List of Inventions British people like to commonly believe they invented" ? This list needs serious work to be accurate. Perhaps an asterisk next to every "british" invention that was invented somewhere else? On the whole though, linguistically I support the move, but the whole topic is disgustingly nationalistic tripe. ~ip user
While there is historical background to this article, I believe it should be deleted and started from whole cloth. Save it for a bit to use as a template, but many of the links are uncited, much of it is flat out wrong, and the whole thing is overly nationalistic. Further, it's in violation of wiki policy, to quote wikipedia itself...
"Wikipedia encompasses many lists of links to articles within Wikipedia that are used for internal organization or to describe a notable subject. In that sense, Wikipedia functions as an index or directory of its own content. However, Wikipedia is not a directory of everything in the universe that exists or has existed. Please see Wikipedia:Alternative outlets for alternatives. Wikipedia articles are not: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as (but not limited to) quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are relevant because they are associated with or significantly contribute to the list topic. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. Merged groups of small articles based on a core topic are permitted. (See Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Appropriate topics for lists for clarification.)"
I know there is a move discussion going on now, but this should just be changed straight away. ~ip user
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.191.33 ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I guess a question is how should we proceed from here. If other editors agree, we could take an incremental approach. First, supporting the article move, requested above, to go ahead because it is a small step in the right direction and a no-regrets action. Then we can work on improving the article in the normal way. If we want to reorganise it into a timeline then we can add section headings eg by century and move the content, improving it as we go. Once progress is made, another move request can be made to Timeline of British inventions and discoveries (a redirect from List of British inventions and discoveries would be helpful anyway). IP 90, if you're ok with this, we could remove the AFD tag. Whizz40 ( talk) 15:01, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
I recommend not feeding the troll, who is destined to be blocked from editing, and sticking to ordinary research, citation, and editing of verifiable facts. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 20:06, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyways, I still think this should be turned into a timeline and this article as it stands should be deleted, but I really don't want to work with people like this. Cheers ~~ip user 90.201.191.33 ( talk) 08:06, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
For reference, this discussion was flagged on the UK Wikipedians' notice board on 1 April 2015 to help give it wider awareness. Whizz40 ( talk) 07:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Continuing the discussions above about converting this article to a timeline. As Dennis Bratland said, "A timeline lets you tell a country's history of science and technology", other editors commented on this becoming a timeline as well. Adding innovations back into the timeline was suggested and, since they are already in the list, past editors would likely agree; Dennis' experience with other articles like this is that there is "greatest potential for consensus if the criteria are loosened so that we don't make strong assertions as to what is an invention or partial invention or shared invention, and what is truly British or German or whatever. ... New technology that is important and relevant to country X can go on the timeline, without having to worry about whether that technology is the sole invention of Country X, or an immigrant from X to Y, or whether it's a true invention or merely a refinement of an existing invention/discovery/design/etc." So we could covert this list into a Timeline of British innovation and discovery, similar to Timeline of Russian innovation. If other editors have views on this or would like to work together on improving the article please jump in. Whizz40 ( talk) 09:54, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved - currently the article does not meet the guidelines for timelines at WP:Timelines or WP:Timeline standards. While the timeline format may indeed be the better way to approach this content, the article should be converted to a timeline consistent with the guidelines first before renaming. As it stands today, the article is a list. Mike Cline ( talk) 15:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
List of British inventions and discoveries →
Timeline of British innovation and discovery – As discussed on the Talk page, propose converting this list to a timeline inclusive of innovations.
Whizz40 (
talk)
05:22, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Given that the only reason this wasn't moved to a timeline was that the format needs to be changed first, we don't need to go through them motions of another move discussion. Once it has been reformatted as a timeline, boldly go ahead and move to the new title without further discussion. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 17:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
As i read this list, i have to say, many innovations, which are listed here, are disputed or not British innovations and discoveries. Hutzre ( talk) 19:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Hutzre ( talk) 19:56, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
{{
cite book}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |first=
(
help)
"List of British innovations and discoveries" gives us topical relevance (these are exclusively British innovations and discoveries) and this unambiguously clear article title should be followed by a lead that makes direct statements about the criteria by which members of the list were selected ( MOS:SAL). Instead the lead goes off this guideline, immediately trying to claim 10 "British innovations" then state right after that "Many of the ten inventions listed above can not be claimed simply by British inventors".
This needs to be de-weaseled and the list its self should conform to WP:CSC, every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia, and that article should state up front this is a British innovation or discovery. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 16:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Added a paragraph consistent with MOS:SAL ("Stand-alone lists should begin with a lead section that summarizes its content, provides any necessary background information, gives encyclopedic context, links to other relevant articles, and makes direct statements about the criteria by which members of the list were selected") and WP:Lead, also comparable with Timeline of United States inventions (1890–1945) and Timeline of chemistry. Whizz40 ( talk) 22:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:56, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
For a start the Nobel Prize for the MRI machine went to Peter Mansfield who was born in Lambeth and was a Professor at the University of Nottingham and not John Mallard and James Huchinson. The CT Scan was also developed by an Englishman Sir Godfrey Hounsfield, who also won a Noble Prize, and his name is immortalised in the Hounsfield scale, a quantitative measure of radiodensity used in evaluating CT scans.
/info/en/?search=Peter_Mansfield
/info/en/?search=Godfrey_Hounsfield
These are just two names missed off the list, and they were a lot of English Scientific Innovators and not just Scotsmen.
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:11, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:52, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
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So I am a scientist at a British Institution. In the contracts, anything that we do is of course the Intellectual Property of the Institution, thus, British. If a Swiss scientist working at a British Institution did something remarkable, it would surely be classed as a British Invention. For the sake of argument, thus, don't the Swiss have just as much right to call the World Wide Web their invention, as they were the ones funding Tim Berners-Lee when he did the work. It wasn't supported in any way by the British Government, Taxpayers, etc. If it were a Swiss guy doing it at Cambridge, we'd class it as a British Invention, even though he was Swiss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CA32:CC00:392E:2169:B08C:B7AC ( talk) 08:03, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:59, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Other than some name spelling errors (Mc and Mac are always followed by a capital letter not small case, it is a compound word) it should be noted that there are also nationality errors on this page. A Scotsman is not an "English" anything. England and Scotland are two separate sovereign nations that are only joined by a Union Act. The United Kingdom of the British Isles is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The UK is not called England. It is clear that this page was created by a foreign source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:41BF:9301:1022:8633:2C78:DC7A ( talk) 17:07, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the lead did not seem to WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, this is not an article about patents or their influence nor is it a place to (make points about British superiority?). It refered to the Industrial Revolution redundantly. It contained the unsourced statement/off topic statement "Experimentation was considered central to innovation by groups such as the Royal Society, which was founded in 1660." "encouraged invention and spurred on the Industrial Revolution from the late 18th century which began in Britain" was contradicted by its own source "one cannot infer too much from patent statistics particularly in this formative era of the patent system". The sources in general seem to be opinion and should not be put in Wikipedia's voice. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 14:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)