![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
In the sentence 'Transgender actress Candis Cayne in 2009 described the LGBT community "the last great minority", noting that "We can still be harassed openly" and be "called out on television"' It should be "described the LGBT community —as-." The as is missing
Sysuphistic ( talk) 21:15, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Just reading through and I think the phrase 'alternative terms' is very similar to the phrase 'varient', should this content be merged?
If the point of this section is to show low use of the word, I would suggest this section needs a new name. E.g. uncommon terms, or something along that line. Saying this, though, the varients that are currently under 'alternative terms' may draw away from their rising use in writing. Maybe placing them under 'varients' would be better, but highlight contestation where present? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamzze ( talk • contribs) 08:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey, NotSchoolSmart here, Do you think we might be able to add more flags? That would be great! If not that is OK, I just think that it would be neat for people who want to learn more about LGBTQ+! Thanks! ( talk) 17:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Thank you!
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Gender and Sexual Minorities. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 18#Gender and Sexual Minorities until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Bangalamania (
talk)
02:14, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
TGBL. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 19#TGBL until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Bangalamania (
talk)
11:20, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{subst:trim|1=
} i just wanna add that not all gays are ready to come out and wanted to add some help advice } 72.221.92.129 ( talk) 16:23, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The first sentence of section #History of the term currently says, "Before the sexual revolution of the 1960s, there was no common non-derogatory vocabulary for non-heterosexuality" but I don't believe this is accurate. The terms "sexual inversion" (for the state) and "invert" (for the person) were used in 19th century in medical references, and by the early 20th century, in popular literature, such as Well of Loneliness. The term uranian was also used, but it was never common, I believe.
Later in that section, there is the claim that the term homophile "replaced" homosexual in the 1950s and 1960s, but it never replaced it, they coexisted, with the latter being over a hundred times more common, and the former being relegated primarily to insider groups and entirely unknown to the public.
Something else that is not made clear by this section and perhaps should be, is that the term "heterosexuality" only came to be used as a counterpoint to the term "homosexuality" (both coined by translators of von Krafft Ebbing around 1892) and whose usage always lagged behind that of "homosexual". This is a standard type of development in language, where the unmarked term doesn't "need" to exist, until the variant is recognized and defined. The same thing happened with "transgender" (c. 1965) and "cisgender" (1990s).
Later in the section, it says that, "From about 1988, activists began to use the initialism LGBT in the United States," but U.S. usage precedes that. See for example, Nakayama (1980), [1] and usage in scholarly articles trails activist usage. Mathglot ( talk) 19:04, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
"The first widely used term, homosexual, now carries negative connotations in the United States.[15]" isn't supported by the link at all, there is no mention of it there, just newspaper style guides expressing a preference for gay and lesbian.
21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.56.14 ( talk • contribs) 21:53, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
References
These two initialisms are sometimes combined to form the terms LGBTIQ [7] or LGBT+ to encompass spectrums of sexuality and gender.[8] Other, less common variants also exist, such as LGBTQIA+,[9] with the A standing for "asexual" or "aromantic".
The lead here claims that LGBTQIA+ is “less common” than LGBTIQ. Is there any actual source for this? From my experience LGBTQIA+ is used all the time whereas I have literally never seen LGBTIQ before this article. Should this claim maybe be removed if a source cannot be found? IMO it’s incorrect. thattransgirl ( talk) (she/her) 03:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Delete "ally" as it is not a sexuality nor a gender identity. Thank you. 2603:8080:2302:3634:85A2:1B5C:3DA7:DEDD ( talk) 07:45, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove "ally" from the explanation of the LGBTQIA+ acronym. Ally is not a sexual or gender identity, and perpetuating this misinterpretation actively erases and harms asexual and aromantic people.
References: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/LGBTQIA https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/LGBTQIA https://lgbtqiainfo.weebly.com/acronym-letters-explained.html
Articles: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the-in-lgbtqia-does-not-stand-for-ally https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/08/lgbtqia-shouldnt-include-ally/
If this edit is refused, please provide a reference for 'A' representing Ally. Yenknip ( talk) 15:07, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
In so far as there are authoritative sources on a social issue that have very different degrees of oppression by country:
Yes, there is a discussion to be had about how allies can support the QUILTBAG community, but ally is not represented by the acronym.
Yenknip ( talk) 11:38, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Those three sources are opinion pieces and are relevant to the section discussing the controversy. I am contending the "or ally" in the opening paragraph of the page. If that deserves to be at the top of the page, it should have a source of equal authority to Stonewall charity which does not include "or ally". Yenknip ( talk) 13:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Also, the current reference[9] for LGBTQIA+ is a dead link to a US University student services web page. Yenknip ( talk) 21:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
@ AllegedlyHuman: you reverted my reversion of your addition of Audacious (album) to the hatnote. I am reading WP:HNR rule 4 differently than you are; in referring to "notable topic X", the guideline links to WP:N, and this CupcakKe song is not evidently notable. Are you confident in your reading of the guideline? Firefangledfeathers ( talk) 02:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we add 2s+ we should be inclusion not exclude native — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56a:701f:9500:2d38:e777:4028:1a84 ( talk) 16:28, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
I have put in a few links within the article and it was removed as being UNDUE. As what I have placed in is sourced, Where in the article should I place it. " There has been articles written that talk about the problems of racism within the LGBT Community. [1] This has gone to the point where this is also a belief that there may exist white supremacy within the LGBT community. [2] Challenges to make the LGBT community more inclusive towards people of color have been make. [3] See Also Racism in the LGBT community" BlackAmerican ( talk) 21:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
References
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Wrong grammar and definition of gay. Egua-45 ( talk) 21:37, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Why is 'history of the term' section 75% just complaining about splinters within the gay rights movement prior to the creation of this term that have nothing to do with it? The term was never exclusive just because it was shorter, no citation references that the L or B took time to add because of pushback, it just came about organically as the movement grew. Really weird overall negatively-framed article on something simple. Is one of the major editors a fundementalist christian as is always the case when articles like this are degraded so badly?
In the list of acronyms, there should be mentioned GRSM: Gender, Romantic, and Sexual Minority, along with GSRM, the same thing in a different order.
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would like to edit this page because the term LGBT is out of date, and I want to change it to LGBTQ. GBATW ( talk) 20:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Do we really need 8 variants of the term in the lead? Looking at Google ngrams, LGBT and LGBTQ are used far more frequently than the other terms in the lead. IMO, "GLBT" should be in the "History of the term", and the rest should only be included in the "Variants" section. Thoughts? – Bangalamania ( talk) 21:46, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Although this article does a good job of introducing the topic, what follows could use some improvement. It would be helpful to focus on LGBT issues today in the United States and around the world. Another alternative could be going into depth about LGBT history in different countries or discussing the intersectionality of LGBTQ+ communities with other marginalized groups. Gdelc03111 ( talk) 01:16, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I consistent hear from the community that the L comes first because of Lesbian activism during the AIDS crisis, is this historically accurate and if so can we include it please? 2600:1012:B109:2A12:0:4E:A775:AC01 ( talk) 20:46, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jmichicich.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
NiaSavon. Peer reviewers:
BrookeStrausbaugh.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
WILL.I.AMMJ.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Spring 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Erintoowavee.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Spring 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Madison.shanley001.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 July 2020 and 14 August 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AllisonDN.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Before I start I should declare a conflict of interest as I identify as pansexual I am not unbiased to the topic.
Bi sexual is an attraction to two genders (male +female)(trans inc.)
Pansexual is an attraction to anyone regardless of gender. (Inc those who are not gender binary).
https://www.newuniversity.org/2022/02/07/the-real-differences-between-bisexual-and-pansexual/
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/bisexual-vs-pansexual
ChefBear01 ( talk) 17:07, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to include the A for Asexual visibility in the “LGBTQI” in the first paragraph 1.43.25.124 ( talk) 09:33, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. This is already covered in the article, not sure if it merits mention in the lead.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
12:57, 7 March 2022 (UTC)The result of the move request was: Not Moved for now, possible future consideration for LGBT+ ( non-admin closure) >>> Extorc. talk 06:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
LGBT →
LGBTQ – Suggested as more inclusive and encompassing of other identities that are not represented strictly by LGBT umbrella (such as an asexual individual, which is not essentially trans, bi, gay, or lesbian). While there are several other variants, LGBTQ or LGBT+ seems indirectly inclusive of the A (agender/aromantic/ace), I (intersex), P (pansexual), H (hijra/HIV-positive), D (demisexual/demiromantic/demigender), N (non-binary/non-conforming), etc. while not mentioning a bunch of letters into one acronym. While LGBT is simple, LGBTQ is simpler in the sense of inherence and belonging. —
Tazuco
23:34, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
This last one just explains that the acronym has expanded. My London Welcometothenewmillenium ( talk) 23:40, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
The article currently claims that the + after the A in LGBTIQA+ could indicate a second A for allies, and cites a single university LGBT terms handbook as a source. I'd like to see more sources cited that show that this is actually a common interpretation of the + after the A, or that paragraph to be deleted since I would argue what one university handbook author thinks isn't notable enough to be included in the article. Looking forward to see what other people think! -- Egefeyzi ( talk) 00:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove "or an "SA" for "straight allies," as straight allies are not queer in any form. LittleApricot ( talk) 02:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
02:46, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Bi & trans people had to fight for acceptance in the 90s. This article implies they just so happened to become more accepted over time which shows ignorance about bi & trans activism. Revision necessary. H-influenzae ( talk) 17:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The last paragraph under variants mentions Canada and Toronto Pride.
>For a time the Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to have dropped this in favour of simpler wording.[59] Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was also criticized for using the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym.[60]
https://www.pridetoronto.com/?s=lgbt
A quick search of the Pride site shows 2SLGBTQIA+ or 2S/LGBTQIA+ as the most recent acronym, though the site is moving away from specific labels in much of its content. Could7927 ( talk) 19:51, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Under the section named 'Variants', the paragraph related to Canada I would like to propose the following edits:
Depending on the (remove 'the') which organization is using the acronym, (add coma) the choice of acronym changes. Businesses and the
CBC (*view note below) often simply employ LGBT as a proxy for any longer acronym, private activist groups often employ LGBTQ+,( See second note) whereas public health providers favour the more inclusive LGBT2Q+ to accommodate (see third note, please) twin spirited the federal government
has adopted, across all departments, and encourages the use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+, the '2S' designating
two-spirited
indigenous peoples. For a time the
Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to have dropped this in favour of simpler wording. to now align with the federal government in its use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+. The Prime Minister
Justin Trudeau was also initially criticized mocked for by some right-wing personalities and social media users for his use of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym. (**See fourth note for rationale for this suggested edit).
A 'clean' version of the paragraph, as per proposed edits would read:
Depending on which organization is using the acronym, the choice of acronym changes. Businesses often simply employ LGBT as a proxy for any longer acronym, whereas the federal government has adopted, across all departments, and encourages the use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+, the '2S' designating two-spirited indigenous peoples. For a time, the Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to now align with the federal government in its use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+. The Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was initially mocked by some right-wing personalities and social media users for his use of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym.
*Note on CBC: While the CBC seems to have widely used the acronym LGBT, as noted, this seems to no longer be the case, as recent articles have used 2SLGBTQI+. Further, while it operates at arm's length from the federal government, being a Crown Corporation, it is to worth mentioning (as an argument to remove the 'and the CBC' from above article), that the Government of Canada has announced:
"...that the government will adopt and encourage the use of the 2SLGBTQI+ acronym". Usually, it follows that Crown Corporations would also adopt the acronym, as they have GBA+ analyses or the inclusion of pronouns in signature blocks, for instance.
**Note on private activist groups: Only one example was cited as reference to support this, whereas multiple private activist groups also use the more-inclusive 2SLGBTQI+, such as:
https://itgetsbettercanada.org/
***Note on 'to accommodate': In Canada, '
accommodation' , especially in the context of public administration, refers to the
Duty to Accommodate which is a legislative requirement for employers and service providers to enable full participation of people living with disabilities or impairments. Even if other suggested edits are not approved, I am adamant that this term should be modified, replaced by 'represent' or '
****Note on Justin Trudeau Criticism: The New York Post article referenced is titled 'mocked', first off. Secondly, the first paragraph states:
Third, the article does not seem unbiased, in that it mentions no users supporting the use of the acronym. Fourth, the article does not mention Canadian political adversaries, advocacy groups or other stakeholders criticizing the PM for the use of the acronym, but only refers to the following, mostly American, right-wing personalities, or critics of 'so-called 'woke-culture', further hinting that the article is biased in its hyperbolic statement he was 'criticized'.
British rapper Nzube Olisaebuka Udezue,
American right-wing political commentator Matt Walsh,
a professor well-known as a vocal critic of social justice activism, Gad Saad
Conspiracy-theorist and American right-wing activist Luke Rudkowski (misspelled in article, but linked in article as being this guy) Wardsback.Poet ( talk) 12:14, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Dear wiki colleagues,
Since, in first-order linear logic terms, human genders are either binary or non-binary, I believe that all terminology currently constructed around LGBT&+ types can, without prejudice, be subsumed under Non-binary Gender.
Aainitio ( talk) 14:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
There is no part about the evolution of the acronym. I’ve read it was originally GLBT (hence why the official foundation for LGBTQ+ is called GLBT) then became LGBT during the aid epidemic as gay men wanted to thank lesbian women for sheltering them during the violent anti-gay era of the USA. Wqnted to learn mmore about it, but nothing was written there on Wikipedia.. Esteban Outeiral Dias ( talk) 22:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Asexuals and demisexuals themselves are adamant that their identities aren't inherently LGBT, as evidenced by the fact that they push to have the initialism LGBT replaced with LGBTIA, LGBTQ+ and so on. Given that this article is titled LGBT and not LGBTQIA or LGBT+, I think having asexual and demisexual as categories is balderdash. Tdmurlock ( talk) 20:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
takes away from the focus of the article. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 21:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
The original acronym GLB was used the most until around 1991-1992 when it was overtaken by LGB, which was overtaken by LGBT around 1998-1999, which is now being overtaken by LGBTQ. 71.233.188.130 ( talk) 15:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Alphabet mafia has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 12 § Alphabet mafia until a consensus is reached.
Xdtp (
talk)
19:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
I.e. drop the "it references" as currently it suggests that the this page and the community page are about the exact same. 31.20.106.40 ( talk) 08:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. I'd like to preface this close by saying that this is not a vote. There is a clear numerical majority in support, however quite a few !votes in support have been deducted for various reasons.
Extended content
|
---|
Supporters argued Google Trends usage, however opposers contested that Trends does not show usage in reliable sources ( WP:COMMONNAME), just usage in general. An opposer argued that LGBT was actually more common on Trends, however that was shot down by the fact that Trends is language agnostic. It was also argued that Ngrams & Scholar showed support for LGBTQ, however that was rebutted by the fact that it was a small one and we should wait a bit more per WP:CRYSTAL. |
LGBT → LGBTQ – This Google Trend comparison indicates a higher appearance of "LGBTQ" compared to "LGBT". I would say this shall be moved, no? Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 02:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Will those making claims based on searches please show your work. (For starters, all claims based on Google Trends are invalid, so please don't show your work on those, they are irrelevant and no amount of detail will change that.) The claim based on ngrams is very narrowly accurate, and so is the trend line, but "past history is no guarantee of future performance" and the two values are extremely close, so it's doubtful that any conclusion can be drawn based on ngrams at this moment. It looks likely that if the trend continues, LGBTQ will demonstrate a clear lead over LGBT in a few years, but we don't have data to support that yet; time will tell. With respect to Google scholar, claims are made that there are "more.. results for LGBTQ than LGBT", but no data is shown and I cannot repeat those results; rather, I see a more nuanced shift towards LGBTQ in recent years (just as ngrams does) with no clear and overwhelming winner (yet). If we restrict Scholar results to the past five years (since 2017 to be exact) and to results which use only one term and not both of them, we have: 68,700 for LGBT and 58,400 for LGBTQ. Checking since 2019, the margin switches significantly in favor of LGBTQ, with 39,000 to 32,000 for LGBT. But if we limit to since 2022, the margin narrows again, to 17,400 for LGBTQ and 16,300 for LGBT. Additional tests should be done in books to see if they show the same pattern. My guess is that if we repeat these tests in two years, the gap should widen enough to say that LGBTQ is more common, but it seems like at this moment we're still in the transitional period and the data doesn't tell an incontrovertible story that one is significantly more common than the other. Mathglot ( talk) 02:09, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
LGBTQIA+ in Princeton: https://www.gsrc.princeton.edu/lgbtqia-101
LGBTQIA+ in South Dakota university: https://www.sdstate.edu/office-multicultural-affairs-accessibility/lgbtqia-basic-terms-and-definitions
LGBTQIA+ in the university of San Francisco: https://lgbt.ucsf.edu/education-training
Why this article has not been redirected to LGBTQIA+? and even worse why keep patching it with the additions keeping the article as it was in the 2010 and keeping the article as it the term is a mental illness?
Why the terms Queer, Asexuality, Intersexual have been kept out of the definition all this time?-- Leglish ( talk) 01:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC).
Could we vote to replace the LGBT article for the LGBTQIA+ article?
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=LGBTQIA%2B&oldid=1150969494
-- Leglish ( talk) 03:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
At very least, LGBTQIA+ should appear bolded in the lead with an explanation, and the explanation of LGBTQ can be compressed into it. This article is basically several years out-of-date. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 10:47, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 May 2023 and 10 August 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jc12016 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jc12016 ( talk) 17:09, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I don't want to reopen the recent RM debate — personally, despite preferring the move recommendation, I would prefer we don't reopen the discussion for at least 6 months.
But it feels sensible to have a spot on the Talk: page here to collate stats about use of the different acronyms, so that we can easily find references next time the topic does come up. Please feel free to add recent data here:
Queer - According to whom do Many people have looked for a generic term to replace the numerous existing initialisms?
According to whom do Queer has many negative connotations to older people who remember the word as a taunt and insult, and such (negative) usage of the term continues?
According to whom do Many younger people also understand queer to be more politically charged than LGBT?
If they are referenced from an article, they should've been written in such a way that provides view of articles. The present form looks like the POV of author.
Also many other sections in alternative terms seem this way.
The variants section seems to be appearing with the views of the editor and don't appear to be neutral
Please note that this a polite submission and comments are invited on how editors can make this neutral and convey if the tag is a mistake Thewikizoomer ( talk) 09:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
hey you should change the flag to the progress flag and include more lgbt identitys sexuallitys and more HunterLgbt ( talk) 21:08, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Not yet starting this as a proper move proposal, but when I arrived on this page, I was surprised that the article is specifically about the initialism, rather than being about the community itself or queerness in general. What do other editors here think of moving around one or multiple article titles, so that readers arrive on an article detailing what LGBT is, rather than an article about the history of the term? ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat) 11:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). There is a consensus against the original proposal of moving this article and having a dab at this title. No prejudice against a new discussion that focuses on either moving a draft space concept dab to this title or editorially changing this page so it becomes a broad concept dab. Jenks24 ( talk) 09:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
LGBT → LGBT (initialism) – I want to propose moving LGBT (disambiguation) to LGBT, linking to LGBT community, LGBT culture, and LGBT (initialism) (which would be this article after the move). I do not believe readers are looking for the history of LGBT as terminology when they are searching "LGBT". A simple Google News search of "LGBT" gives us articles on same-sex marriage, violence against LGBT people, and the experience of being LGBT; it does not give articles about usage and criticisms of the umbrella term itself. I don't believe the terminology is the primary topic of "LGBT". To wax poetic, "we are more than a label applied to us." This might be in the spirit of point 2 on WP:DICTIONARY. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat) 08:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Follow-up comment: Part of the problem with the article title may be that the title is basically an adjective, not a noun. Generally, Wikipedia article titles are nouns, per the WP:NOUN section of the article title policy – such as the titles LGBT community, LGBT culture, and Gay men. The noun title for a broad concept article might be something like LGBT people (which is a redirect to a list of lists). As a noun, LGBT may primarily just be the term itself. Similarly, Gay is an article about a term. — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi, I'm not a regular editor of Wikipedia, and this page has protections I can't get around (for sad but understandable reasons, to wit, vandalism), but I'm pretty sure I've found a research error, so I thought I'd just leave a note. I was looking for information on the initial development and adoption of the LGBT acronym—not more recent developments, like the addition of "Q" and "+" and "2S" etc.—so I started here.
The second paragraph of the introduction reads, "LGBT is an adaptation of LGB, which began to replace the term gay (or gay and lesbian), in reference to the broader LGBT community beginning in the mid-to-late 1980s.[2]"; citation 2 reads, "Acronyms, Initialisms & Abbreviations Dictionary, Volume 1, Part 1. Gale Research Co., 1985, ISBN 978-0-8103-0683-7. Factsheet five, Issues 32–36, Mike Gunderloy, 1989 Archived 6 September 2015 at the Wayback Machine." However, after checking both of these sources (the Acronyms, Initialisms & Abbreviations Dictionary, vol. 1, pt. 1, AND all five listed issues of Factsheet Five: 32, 33, 34, 35, and 36), I can't find any information at all that verifies the statement in paragraph two. Both sources (or all six, technically) make numerous references to the acronym's components—particularly "gay" and "lesbian," which were both far more commonly used in the 80s than their more contemporary cohorts—but nowhere do any of them expressly communicate that, "LGBT is an adaptation of LGB, which began to replace the term gay (or gay and lesbian), in reference to the broader LGBT community beginning in the mid-to-late 1980s."
This is probably not a huge deal, since it's hardly the meat of the article, but I do believe that Wikipedia is a legitimate and effective research resource, and this dead/faulty reference was very disappointing to me, as I'd hoped that the sources listed could better explain the development of LGB into LGBT in the common North American vernacular. I'm having some difficulty finding other external sources that can reliably discuss the development of the acronym (which is part of why I came here), but if I find any that make better sources, I'll pop round here again and drop them off. Sorry about the wall-o'-text, thanks for your patience! Have a good one! 142.132.8.0 ( talk) 20:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
List of Commonly Used Queer Acronyms has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 5 § List of Commonly Used Queer Acronyms until a consensus is reached.
Utopes (
talk /
cont)
07:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
The original term "GLBT" should be mentioned in the lead somewhere Mach61 ( talk) 13:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Nowadays, most people refer to them as The LGBTQ+ community instead of simply The LGBT community. I think the pages name should be changed from LGBT to LGBTQ+ to include everyone. Not just gay, lesbians, bi people, and transfolk. 76.64.181.63 ( talk) 08:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
The idea of the "lesbians first" movement is touched upon in the article, but not really delved into here. If I recall, a big part of the lesbians first movement is their incredibly prominent role in the HIV/AIDs crisis, ie, their involvement in protests, the running of blood drives for gay men, along with the toll AIDs took in the lesbian community as well. I can probably find some sources for this, but it might take me some time. Would appreciate any help and/or feedback! 20:44, 10 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TransButterflyQueen ( talk • contribs)
Both the terms are used interchangeably. Although identical in meaning LGBT has a more feminist connotation than GLBT as it places L first." — Panamitsu (talk) 22:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
So you see, it has come to my attention that this article may not be navigateable to anyone who wants information regarding what the term actually stands for, especially since the article has a lot of information about the onomastics (ooh, fancy word). Anyways, the article would be better with information about what the acronym actually STANDS for, instead of etymology. Ooh, I know! Maybe there can be two articles: One about what it stands for, and another about the etymology and onomastics! Cool, I think that works. Cleter ( talk) 00:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
LGBT is an initialism that stands for "lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender".— Panamitsu (talk) 00:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Writ Keeper: First of all, gender and sex are different things.
Sex is anatomical and physiological, but gender is not.
Cisgender people's birth sex matches with their gender(s);
Whereas transgender people's birth sex does not match with their gender(s).
Non-binary people don't fall under the trans umbrella, except some non-binary people who are born trans. The trans umbrella includes both binary trans people and non-binary trans people, any of whom can be born genderqueer, genderfluid, and/or two-spirit, bigender, trigender.
However, there are many non-binary people who are born cisgender. They are not transgender, and do not fall under the trans umbrella.
Similarly, all genderfluid people who are born cisgender, are not transgender.
Similarly, all genderqueer, two-spirit, and/or bigender or trigender people who are born cisgender, are not transgender.
Hence, we need more reliable, better sources for distinguishing between these terms. — CrafterNova [ TALK ] [ CONT ] 14:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
In the sentence 'Transgender actress Candis Cayne in 2009 described the LGBT community "the last great minority", noting that "We can still be harassed openly" and be "called out on television"' It should be "described the LGBT community —as-." The as is missing
Sysuphistic ( talk) 21:15, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Just reading through and I think the phrase 'alternative terms' is very similar to the phrase 'varient', should this content be merged?
If the point of this section is to show low use of the word, I would suggest this section needs a new name. E.g. uncommon terms, or something along that line. Saying this, though, the varients that are currently under 'alternative terms' may draw away from their rising use in writing. Maybe placing them under 'varients' would be better, but highlight contestation where present? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamzze ( talk • contribs) 08:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey, NotSchoolSmart here, Do you think we might be able to add more flags? That would be great! If not that is OK, I just think that it would be neat for people who want to learn more about LGBTQ+! Thanks! ( talk) 17:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Thank you!
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Gender and Sexual Minorities. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 18#Gender and Sexual Minorities until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Bangalamania (
talk)
02:14, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
TGBL. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 19#TGBL until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Bangalamania (
talk)
11:20, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{subst:trim|1=
} i just wanna add that not all gays are ready to come out and wanted to add some help advice } 72.221.92.129 ( talk) 16:23, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The first sentence of section #History of the term currently says, "Before the sexual revolution of the 1960s, there was no common non-derogatory vocabulary for non-heterosexuality" but I don't believe this is accurate. The terms "sexual inversion" (for the state) and "invert" (for the person) were used in 19th century in medical references, and by the early 20th century, in popular literature, such as Well of Loneliness. The term uranian was also used, but it was never common, I believe.
Later in that section, there is the claim that the term homophile "replaced" homosexual in the 1950s and 1960s, but it never replaced it, they coexisted, with the latter being over a hundred times more common, and the former being relegated primarily to insider groups and entirely unknown to the public.
Something else that is not made clear by this section and perhaps should be, is that the term "heterosexuality" only came to be used as a counterpoint to the term "homosexuality" (both coined by translators of von Krafft Ebbing around 1892) and whose usage always lagged behind that of "homosexual". This is a standard type of development in language, where the unmarked term doesn't "need" to exist, until the variant is recognized and defined. The same thing happened with "transgender" (c. 1965) and "cisgender" (1990s).
Later in the section, it says that, "From about 1988, activists began to use the initialism LGBT in the United States," but U.S. usage precedes that. See for example, Nakayama (1980), [1] and usage in scholarly articles trails activist usage. Mathglot ( talk) 19:04, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
"The first widely used term, homosexual, now carries negative connotations in the United States.[15]" isn't supported by the link at all, there is no mention of it there, just newspaper style guides expressing a preference for gay and lesbian.
21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)21:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.56.14 ( talk • contribs) 21:53, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
References
These two initialisms are sometimes combined to form the terms LGBTIQ [7] or LGBT+ to encompass spectrums of sexuality and gender.[8] Other, less common variants also exist, such as LGBTQIA+,[9] with the A standing for "asexual" or "aromantic".
The lead here claims that LGBTQIA+ is “less common” than LGBTIQ. Is there any actual source for this? From my experience LGBTQIA+ is used all the time whereas I have literally never seen LGBTIQ before this article. Should this claim maybe be removed if a source cannot be found? IMO it’s incorrect. thattransgirl ( talk) (she/her) 03:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Delete "ally" as it is not a sexuality nor a gender identity. Thank you. 2603:8080:2302:3634:85A2:1B5C:3DA7:DEDD ( talk) 07:45, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove "ally" from the explanation of the LGBTQIA+ acronym. Ally is not a sexual or gender identity, and perpetuating this misinterpretation actively erases and harms asexual and aromantic people.
References: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/LGBTQIA https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/LGBTQIA https://lgbtqiainfo.weebly.com/acronym-letters-explained.html
Articles: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the-in-lgbtqia-does-not-stand-for-ally https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/08/lgbtqia-shouldnt-include-ally/
If this edit is refused, please provide a reference for 'A' representing Ally. Yenknip ( talk) 15:07, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
In so far as there are authoritative sources on a social issue that have very different degrees of oppression by country:
Yes, there is a discussion to be had about how allies can support the QUILTBAG community, but ally is not represented by the acronym.
Yenknip ( talk) 11:38, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Those three sources are opinion pieces and are relevant to the section discussing the controversy. I am contending the "or ally" in the opening paragraph of the page. If that deserves to be at the top of the page, it should have a source of equal authority to Stonewall charity which does not include "or ally". Yenknip ( talk) 13:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Also, the current reference[9] for LGBTQIA+ is a dead link to a US University student services web page. Yenknip ( talk) 21:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
@ AllegedlyHuman: you reverted my reversion of your addition of Audacious (album) to the hatnote. I am reading WP:HNR rule 4 differently than you are; in referring to "notable topic X", the guideline links to WP:N, and this CupcakKe song is not evidently notable. Are you confident in your reading of the guideline? Firefangledfeathers ( talk) 02:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we add 2s+ we should be inclusion not exclude native — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56a:701f:9500:2d38:e777:4028:1a84 ( talk) 16:28, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
I have put in a few links within the article and it was removed as being UNDUE. As what I have placed in is sourced, Where in the article should I place it. " There has been articles written that talk about the problems of racism within the LGBT Community. [1] This has gone to the point where this is also a belief that there may exist white supremacy within the LGBT community. [2] Challenges to make the LGBT community more inclusive towards people of color have been make. [3] See Also Racism in the LGBT community" BlackAmerican ( talk) 21:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
References
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Wrong grammar and definition of gay. Egua-45 ( talk) 21:37, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Why is 'history of the term' section 75% just complaining about splinters within the gay rights movement prior to the creation of this term that have nothing to do with it? The term was never exclusive just because it was shorter, no citation references that the L or B took time to add because of pushback, it just came about organically as the movement grew. Really weird overall negatively-framed article on something simple. Is one of the major editors a fundementalist christian as is always the case when articles like this are degraded so badly?
In the list of acronyms, there should be mentioned GRSM: Gender, Romantic, and Sexual Minority, along with GSRM, the same thing in a different order.
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would like to edit this page because the term LGBT is out of date, and I want to change it to LGBTQ. GBATW ( talk) 20:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Do we really need 8 variants of the term in the lead? Looking at Google ngrams, LGBT and LGBTQ are used far more frequently than the other terms in the lead. IMO, "GLBT" should be in the "History of the term", and the rest should only be included in the "Variants" section. Thoughts? – Bangalamania ( talk) 21:46, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Although this article does a good job of introducing the topic, what follows could use some improvement. It would be helpful to focus on LGBT issues today in the United States and around the world. Another alternative could be going into depth about LGBT history in different countries or discussing the intersectionality of LGBTQ+ communities with other marginalized groups. Gdelc03111 ( talk) 01:16, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I consistent hear from the community that the L comes first because of Lesbian activism during the AIDS crisis, is this historically accurate and if so can we include it please? 2600:1012:B109:2A12:0:4E:A775:AC01 ( talk) 20:46, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jmichicich.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
NiaSavon. Peer reviewers:
BrookeStrausbaugh.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
WILL.I.AMMJ.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Spring 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Erintoowavee.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Spring 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Madison.shanley001.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 July 2020 and 14 August 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AllisonDN.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 23:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Before I start I should declare a conflict of interest as I identify as pansexual I am not unbiased to the topic.
Bi sexual is an attraction to two genders (male +female)(trans inc.)
Pansexual is an attraction to anyone regardless of gender. (Inc those who are not gender binary).
https://www.newuniversity.org/2022/02/07/the-real-differences-between-bisexual-and-pansexual/
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/bisexual-vs-pansexual
ChefBear01 ( talk) 17:07, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to include the A for Asexual visibility in the “LGBTQI” in the first paragraph 1.43.25.124 ( talk) 09:33, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. This is already covered in the article, not sure if it merits mention in the lead.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
12:57, 7 March 2022 (UTC)The result of the move request was: Not Moved for now, possible future consideration for LGBT+ ( non-admin closure) >>> Extorc. talk 06:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
LGBT →
LGBTQ – Suggested as more inclusive and encompassing of other identities that are not represented strictly by LGBT umbrella (such as an asexual individual, which is not essentially trans, bi, gay, or lesbian). While there are several other variants, LGBTQ or LGBT+ seems indirectly inclusive of the A (agender/aromantic/ace), I (intersex), P (pansexual), H (hijra/HIV-positive), D (demisexual/demiromantic/demigender), N (non-binary/non-conforming), etc. while not mentioning a bunch of letters into one acronym. While LGBT is simple, LGBTQ is simpler in the sense of inherence and belonging. —
Tazuco
23:34, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
This last one just explains that the acronym has expanded. My London Welcometothenewmillenium ( talk) 23:40, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
The article currently claims that the + after the A in LGBTIQA+ could indicate a second A for allies, and cites a single university LGBT terms handbook as a source. I'd like to see more sources cited that show that this is actually a common interpretation of the + after the A, or that paragraph to be deleted since I would argue what one university handbook author thinks isn't notable enough to be included in the article. Looking forward to see what other people think! -- Egefeyzi ( talk) 00:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove "or an "SA" for "straight allies," as straight allies are not queer in any form. LittleApricot ( talk) 02:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
02:46, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Bi & trans people had to fight for acceptance in the 90s. This article implies they just so happened to become more accepted over time which shows ignorance about bi & trans activism. Revision necessary. H-influenzae ( talk) 17:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The last paragraph under variants mentions Canada and Toronto Pride.
>For a time the Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to have dropped this in favour of simpler wording.[59] Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was also criticized for using the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym.[60]
https://www.pridetoronto.com/?s=lgbt
A quick search of the Pride site shows 2SLGBTQIA+ or 2S/LGBTQIA+ as the most recent acronym, though the site is moving away from specific labels in much of its content. Could7927 ( talk) 19:51, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Under the section named 'Variants', the paragraph related to Canada I would like to propose the following edits:
Depending on the (remove 'the') which organization is using the acronym, (add coma) the choice of acronym changes. Businesses and the
CBC (*view note below) often simply employ LGBT as a proxy for any longer acronym, private activist groups often employ LGBTQ+,( See second note) whereas public health providers favour the more inclusive LGBT2Q+ to accommodate (see third note, please) twin spirited the federal government
has adopted, across all departments, and encourages the use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+, the '2S' designating
two-spirited
indigenous peoples. For a time the
Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to have dropped this in favour of simpler wording. to now align with the federal government in its use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+. The Prime Minister
Justin Trudeau was also initially criticized mocked for by some right-wing personalities and social media users for his use of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym. (**See fourth note for rationale for this suggested edit).
A 'clean' version of the paragraph, as per proposed edits would read:
Depending on which organization is using the acronym, the choice of acronym changes. Businesses often simply employ LGBT as a proxy for any longer acronym, whereas the federal government has adopted, across all departments, and encourages the use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+, the '2S' designating two-spirited indigenous peoples. For a time, the Pride Toronto organization used the much lengthier acronym LGBTTIQQ2SA, but appears to now align with the federal government in its use of the acronym 2SLGBTQI+. The Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was initially mocked by some right-wing personalities and social media users for his use of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ acronym.
*Note on CBC: While the CBC seems to have widely used the acronym LGBT, as noted, this seems to no longer be the case, as recent articles have used 2SLGBTQI+. Further, while it operates at arm's length from the federal government, being a Crown Corporation, it is to worth mentioning (as an argument to remove the 'and the CBC' from above article), that the Government of Canada has announced:
"...that the government will adopt and encourage the use of the 2SLGBTQI+ acronym". Usually, it follows that Crown Corporations would also adopt the acronym, as they have GBA+ analyses or the inclusion of pronouns in signature blocks, for instance.
**Note on private activist groups: Only one example was cited as reference to support this, whereas multiple private activist groups also use the more-inclusive 2SLGBTQI+, such as:
https://itgetsbettercanada.org/
***Note on 'to accommodate': In Canada, '
accommodation' , especially in the context of public administration, refers to the
Duty to Accommodate which is a legislative requirement for employers and service providers to enable full participation of people living with disabilities or impairments. Even if other suggested edits are not approved, I am adamant that this term should be modified, replaced by 'represent' or '
****Note on Justin Trudeau Criticism: The New York Post article referenced is titled 'mocked', first off. Secondly, the first paragraph states:
Third, the article does not seem unbiased, in that it mentions no users supporting the use of the acronym. Fourth, the article does not mention Canadian political adversaries, advocacy groups or other stakeholders criticizing the PM for the use of the acronym, but only refers to the following, mostly American, right-wing personalities, or critics of 'so-called 'woke-culture', further hinting that the article is biased in its hyperbolic statement he was 'criticized'.
British rapper Nzube Olisaebuka Udezue,
American right-wing political commentator Matt Walsh,
a professor well-known as a vocal critic of social justice activism, Gad Saad
Conspiracy-theorist and American right-wing activist Luke Rudkowski (misspelled in article, but linked in article as being this guy) Wardsback.Poet ( talk) 12:14, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Dear wiki colleagues,
Since, in first-order linear logic terms, human genders are either binary or non-binary, I believe that all terminology currently constructed around LGBT&+ types can, without prejudice, be subsumed under Non-binary Gender.
Aainitio ( talk) 14:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
There is no part about the evolution of the acronym. I’ve read it was originally GLBT (hence why the official foundation for LGBTQ+ is called GLBT) then became LGBT during the aid epidemic as gay men wanted to thank lesbian women for sheltering them during the violent anti-gay era of the USA. Wqnted to learn mmore about it, but nothing was written there on Wikipedia.. Esteban Outeiral Dias ( talk) 22:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Asexuals and demisexuals themselves are adamant that their identities aren't inherently LGBT, as evidenced by the fact that they push to have the initialism LGBT replaced with LGBTIA, LGBTQ+ and so on. Given that this article is titled LGBT and not LGBTQIA or LGBT+, I think having asexual and demisexual as categories is balderdash. Tdmurlock ( talk) 20:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
takes away from the focus of the article. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 21:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
The original acronym GLB was used the most until around 1991-1992 when it was overtaken by LGB, which was overtaken by LGBT around 1998-1999, which is now being overtaken by LGBTQ. 71.233.188.130 ( talk) 15:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Alphabet mafia has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 12 § Alphabet mafia until a consensus is reached.
Xdtp (
talk)
19:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
I.e. drop the "it references" as currently it suggests that the this page and the community page are about the exact same. 31.20.106.40 ( talk) 08:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. I'd like to preface this close by saying that this is not a vote. There is a clear numerical majority in support, however quite a few !votes in support have been deducted for various reasons.
Extended content
|
---|
Supporters argued Google Trends usage, however opposers contested that Trends does not show usage in reliable sources ( WP:COMMONNAME), just usage in general. An opposer argued that LGBT was actually more common on Trends, however that was shot down by the fact that Trends is language agnostic. It was also argued that Ngrams & Scholar showed support for LGBTQ, however that was rebutted by the fact that it was a small one and we should wait a bit more per WP:CRYSTAL. |
LGBT → LGBTQ – This Google Trend comparison indicates a higher appearance of "LGBTQ" compared to "LGBT". I would say this shall be moved, no? Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 02:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Will those making claims based on searches please show your work. (For starters, all claims based on Google Trends are invalid, so please don't show your work on those, they are irrelevant and no amount of detail will change that.) The claim based on ngrams is very narrowly accurate, and so is the trend line, but "past history is no guarantee of future performance" and the two values are extremely close, so it's doubtful that any conclusion can be drawn based on ngrams at this moment. It looks likely that if the trend continues, LGBTQ will demonstrate a clear lead over LGBT in a few years, but we don't have data to support that yet; time will tell. With respect to Google scholar, claims are made that there are "more.. results for LGBTQ than LGBT", but no data is shown and I cannot repeat those results; rather, I see a more nuanced shift towards LGBTQ in recent years (just as ngrams does) with no clear and overwhelming winner (yet). If we restrict Scholar results to the past five years (since 2017 to be exact) and to results which use only one term and not both of them, we have: 68,700 for LGBT and 58,400 for LGBTQ. Checking since 2019, the margin switches significantly in favor of LGBTQ, with 39,000 to 32,000 for LGBT. But if we limit to since 2022, the margin narrows again, to 17,400 for LGBTQ and 16,300 for LGBT. Additional tests should be done in books to see if they show the same pattern. My guess is that if we repeat these tests in two years, the gap should widen enough to say that LGBTQ is more common, but it seems like at this moment we're still in the transitional period and the data doesn't tell an incontrovertible story that one is significantly more common than the other. Mathglot ( talk) 02:09, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
LGBTQIA+ in Princeton: https://www.gsrc.princeton.edu/lgbtqia-101
LGBTQIA+ in South Dakota university: https://www.sdstate.edu/office-multicultural-affairs-accessibility/lgbtqia-basic-terms-and-definitions
LGBTQIA+ in the university of San Francisco: https://lgbt.ucsf.edu/education-training
Why this article has not been redirected to LGBTQIA+? and even worse why keep patching it with the additions keeping the article as it was in the 2010 and keeping the article as it the term is a mental illness?
Why the terms Queer, Asexuality, Intersexual have been kept out of the definition all this time?-- Leglish ( talk) 01:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC).
Could we vote to replace the LGBT article for the LGBTQIA+ article?
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=LGBTQIA%2B&oldid=1150969494
-- Leglish ( talk) 03:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
At very least, LGBTQIA+ should appear bolded in the lead with an explanation, and the explanation of LGBTQ can be compressed into it. This article is basically several years out-of-date. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 10:47, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 May 2023 and 10 August 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jc12016 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jc12016 ( talk) 17:09, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I don't want to reopen the recent RM debate — personally, despite preferring the move recommendation, I would prefer we don't reopen the discussion for at least 6 months.
But it feels sensible to have a spot on the Talk: page here to collate stats about use of the different acronyms, so that we can easily find references next time the topic does come up. Please feel free to add recent data here:
Queer - According to whom do Many people have looked for a generic term to replace the numerous existing initialisms?
According to whom do Queer has many negative connotations to older people who remember the word as a taunt and insult, and such (negative) usage of the term continues?
According to whom do Many younger people also understand queer to be more politically charged than LGBT?
If they are referenced from an article, they should've been written in such a way that provides view of articles. The present form looks like the POV of author.
Also many other sections in alternative terms seem this way.
The variants section seems to be appearing with the views of the editor and don't appear to be neutral
Please note that this a polite submission and comments are invited on how editors can make this neutral and convey if the tag is a mistake Thewikizoomer ( talk) 09:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
LGBT has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
hey you should change the flag to the progress flag and include more lgbt identitys sexuallitys and more HunterLgbt ( talk) 21:08, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Not yet starting this as a proper move proposal, but when I arrived on this page, I was surprised that the article is specifically about the initialism, rather than being about the community itself or queerness in general. What do other editors here think of moving around one or multiple article titles, so that readers arrive on an article detailing what LGBT is, rather than an article about the history of the term? ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat) 11:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). There is a consensus against the original proposal of moving this article and having a dab at this title. No prejudice against a new discussion that focuses on either moving a draft space concept dab to this title or editorially changing this page so it becomes a broad concept dab. Jenks24 ( talk) 09:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
LGBT → LGBT (initialism) – I want to propose moving LGBT (disambiguation) to LGBT, linking to LGBT community, LGBT culture, and LGBT (initialism) (which would be this article after the move). I do not believe readers are looking for the history of LGBT as terminology when they are searching "LGBT". A simple Google News search of "LGBT" gives us articles on same-sex marriage, violence against LGBT people, and the experience of being LGBT; it does not give articles about usage and criticisms of the umbrella term itself. I don't believe the terminology is the primary topic of "LGBT". To wax poetic, "we are more than a label applied to us." This might be in the spirit of point 2 on WP:DICTIONARY. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat) 08:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Follow-up comment: Part of the problem with the article title may be that the title is basically an adjective, not a noun. Generally, Wikipedia article titles are nouns, per the WP:NOUN section of the article title policy – such as the titles LGBT community, LGBT culture, and Gay men. The noun title for a broad concept article might be something like LGBT people (which is a redirect to a list of lists). As a noun, LGBT may primarily just be the term itself. Similarly, Gay is an article about a term. — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi, I'm not a regular editor of Wikipedia, and this page has protections I can't get around (for sad but understandable reasons, to wit, vandalism), but I'm pretty sure I've found a research error, so I thought I'd just leave a note. I was looking for information on the initial development and adoption of the LGBT acronym—not more recent developments, like the addition of "Q" and "+" and "2S" etc.—so I started here.
The second paragraph of the introduction reads, "LGBT is an adaptation of LGB, which began to replace the term gay (or gay and lesbian), in reference to the broader LGBT community beginning in the mid-to-late 1980s.[2]"; citation 2 reads, "Acronyms, Initialisms & Abbreviations Dictionary, Volume 1, Part 1. Gale Research Co., 1985, ISBN 978-0-8103-0683-7. Factsheet five, Issues 32–36, Mike Gunderloy, 1989 Archived 6 September 2015 at the Wayback Machine." However, after checking both of these sources (the Acronyms, Initialisms & Abbreviations Dictionary, vol. 1, pt. 1, AND all five listed issues of Factsheet Five: 32, 33, 34, 35, and 36), I can't find any information at all that verifies the statement in paragraph two. Both sources (or all six, technically) make numerous references to the acronym's components—particularly "gay" and "lesbian," which were both far more commonly used in the 80s than their more contemporary cohorts—but nowhere do any of them expressly communicate that, "LGBT is an adaptation of LGB, which began to replace the term gay (or gay and lesbian), in reference to the broader LGBT community beginning in the mid-to-late 1980s."
This is probably not a huge deal, since it's hardly the meat of the article, but I do believe that Wikipedia is a legitimate and effective research resource, and this dead/faulty reference was very disappointing to me, as I'd hoped that the sources listed could better explain the development of LGB into LGBT in the common North American vernacular. I'm having some difficulty finding other external sources that can reliably discuss the development of the acronym (which is part of why I came here), but if I find any that make better sources, I'll pop round here again and drop them off. Sorry about the wall-o'-text, thanks for your patience! Have a good one! 142.132.8.0 ( talk) 20:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
List of Commonly Used Queer Acronyms has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 5 § List of Commonly Used Queer Acronyms until a consensus is reached.
Utopes (
talk /
cont)
07:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
The original term "GLBT" should be mentioned in the lead somewhere Mach61 ( talk) 13:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Nowadays, most people refer to them as The LGBTQ+ community instead of simply The LGBT community. I think the pages name should be changed from LGBT to LGBTQ+ to include everyone. Not just gay, lesbians, bi people, and transfolk. 76.64.181.63 ( talk) 08:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
The idea of the "lesbians first" movement is touched upon in the article, but not really delved into here. If I recall, a big part of the lesbians first movement is their incredibly prominent role in the HIV/AIDs crisis, ie, their involvement in protests, the running of blood drives for gay men, along with the toll AIDs took in the lesbian community as well. I can probably find some sources for this, but it might take me some time. Would appreciate any help and/or feedback! 20:44, 10 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TransButterflyQueen ( talk • contribs)
Both the terms are used interchangeably. Although identical in meaning LGBT has a more feminist connotation than GLBT as it places L first." — Panamitsu (talk) 22:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
So you see, it has come to my attention that this article may not be navigateable to anyone who wants information regarding what the term actually stands for, especially since the article has a lot of information about the onomastics (ooh, fancy word). Anyways, the article would be better with information about what the acronym actually STANDS for, instead of etymology. Ooh, I know! Maybe there can be two articles: One about what it stands for, and another about the etymology and onomastics! Cool, I think that works. Cleter ( talk) 00:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
LGBT is an initialism that stands for "lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender".— Panamitsu (talk) 00:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Writ Keeper: First of all, gender and sex are different things.
Sex is anatomical and physiological, but gender is not.
Cisgender people's birth sex matches with their gender(s);
Whereas transgender people's birth sex does not match with their gender(s).
Non-binary people don't fall under the trans umbrella, except some non-binary people who are born trans. The trans umbrella includes both binary trans people and non-binary trans people, any of whom can be born genderqueer, genderfluid, and/or two-spirit, bigender, trigender.
However, there are many non-binary people who are born cisgender. They are not transgender, and do not fall under the trans umbrella.
Similarly, all genderfluid people who are born cisgender, are not transgender.
Similarly, all genderqueer, two-spirit, and/or bigender or trigender people who are born cisgender, are not transgender.
Hence, we need more reliable, better sources for distinguishing between these terms. — CrafterNova [ TALK ] [ CONT ] 14:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)