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Khirurg (
talk ·
contribs) and I have both been editing in the third paragraph of the lead today and have a difference of opinion as to how best to word its first sentence. This user favors the wording: The earliest advanced civilizations in Europe sprang up in ancient Greece and Italy (most notably in Rome), and as a result these societies are the foundation of Western civilization.
For a number of reasons I believe that my initial wording of the sentence is better: The earliest city-states in Europe sprang up in ancient Greece and Italy (most notably in Rome), and in this sense these societies form the foundation of Western civilization.
This user's edit summary when initially changing my version to theirs read minor reword; not just city-states (e.g. Macedonia, Etruscans, etc.
This reasoning did not seem to me logical to me, nor did the edit in any way improve readability or sense, so I reverted, stating in my summary: Not an improvement: circular. Also, ancient Italy is inclusive of Etruscan civilization
. Khirurg then reverted my revert stating not an improvement" is not an argument
. I again reverted stating Please observe WP:BRD; when you are reverted the proper next step is to open a Talk page section. This is a very minor content dispute so please do not escalate. And please respond to my whole edit summary, not just the part you find it easiest to dispute.
Khirurg then reverted once again, stating WP:BRD applies to you, and don't lecture me about "the proper next step is to open a Talk page section" and "do not escalate". If you revert again I will report you for a 3RR violation. There is nothing "circular" about my edit.
In order to avoid escalating the matter further and falling into edit war territory, I ask that we continue the conversation here. Any additional input on the matter from other editors would be quite helpful.
Generalrelative (
talk)
21:19, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
the foundational cultures of Europe. Other European cultures have their own roots. That's clear as day. The word "civilization" has several senses, and only in the special sense of "city building society" do Greece and Rome qualify as foundational. Further, WP:WEASEL refers to
words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated. My version, however, makes the sentence more specific by focusing in on the specific sense of "civilization" used there. Those are my substantive arguments, though I suspect we'll need a third opinion to settle this. Anyone else care to weigh in here? Generalrelative ( talk) 03:14, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
the foundational cultures of Europewas verbatim from your previous comment. And no, it is not straightforwardly true that Greece and Rome were the
earliest advanced civilizations in Europebecause "advanced" is not an objective judgment. Weren't the builders of Stonehenge in their own way "advanced"? Where you draw the line and what criteria you count as "advanced" has an irreducible degree of arbitrariness to it, and thus the term is not encyclopedic. The statement that these societies are
the foundational cultures of Western civilizationis even more arbitrary if we understand "civilization" in its broader sense as "culture". Aspects of other cultures certainly contributed to Western civilization so why single out those of Greece and Rome as "foundational"? Again, there is no objective rationale here. That's why it's so important that we be clear that we're speaking of civilization in its narrower sense as "city-building societies" if we're going to speak of Greece and Rome as foundational to Western civilization.
The civilizations of Classical Greece and Ancient Rome are considered seminal periods in Western history. I'd be fine with swapping out "Western history" for "European history" and making that the first sentence of paragraph 3. Thoughts? Generalrelative ( talk) 03:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
long-standingwas false, I've now been accused of edit warring by Dr.K. ( talk · contribs) for restoring that compromise language. For my part, I find the charge spurious, given that I've followed WP:BRD throughout, seeking a third opinion to resolve the dispute as recommended in WP:CON –– and indeed, found one. However at this point I will leave it to others to finish the job of fixing this sentence if they choose. Life is simply too short to allow minor content disputes to devolve into acrimony. Generalrelative ( talk) 15:30, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Nick.mon recently removed one image of Hitler in Finland ini 1942, in favor of another of Hitler and Mussolini standing together in this edit, and then followed with this one. Sources were removed at the same time, so I reverted. But, the caption in the Finland image was very clunky, and deserved to be fixed up. Plus, although Nick.mon didn't give a justification for the image swap, so we don't know their their intent or how it's supposed to improve the article, I can see an argument that the second image is better. Should we keep the first one and just fix up the clunky caption? Go with the second one? Or a completely new image? Or neither? What do others think? Mathglot ( talk) 18:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
"European culture is the root of Western civilization, which traces its lineage back to ancient Greece and ancient Rome."
This sentence, which begins the third paragraph, places emphasis on Greece and Rome as the most ancient and/or prominent forces that created western civilisation. While they certainly had a major impact on future European civilisations, other equally-old cultures would also have big cultural and linguistic impacts in the European cultures and civilisations that would rise after the classical period and the fall of Rome.
Western civilisation, as defined by Wikipedia, is not just 'the stuff that came from Rome and Greece', but all Europe.
/info/en/?search=Western_culture
"Western culture, sometimes equated with Western civilization, Occidental culture, the Western world, Western society, and European civilization, is the heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, artifacts and technologies that originated in or are associated with Europe."
One big example I can think of are the Germanic peoples that moved into Roman territories in the Migration Period. While they did adopt and emulate a lot of Roman stuff, the form civilisations would take in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire would be unrecognisable if you removed the linguistic and cultural influences of the Germanic peoples.
Furthermore, there is more to Europe than the bits Rome and Greece played around in. The further north and east you go, the less influence they had culturally and linguistically. The Romans never conquered Scandinavia, with Scandinavian cultures having their own roots, but Scandinavia is absolutely part of Europe and so part of western civilisation. While you could go "Ah, but western civilisation, specifically the civilisation bit, is about cities", that's not what western civilisation is defined as in the Western Culture page of Wikipedia, which is what 'Western civilization' in the top-most quoted sentence links to. Western civilisation, as defined by the page that the quote links to, is about a whole massive bunch of cultural European stuff, not specifically and exclusively cities. Killer113 ( talk) 01:34, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
I would expect Austria's coat of arms to be the eagle, as shown on Austria's page. Any reason why the list of states uses a different one? -- Bfx0 ( talk) 20:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
In some countries of Eastern Europe, students are thought that there are only six continents since Eurasia is treated as a single landmass on account of it being... a single landmass So what defines Europe? historically, there is one easy definition that defines European countries from Asia: "It has a history of starting wars (Unless you are the Swiss)". 2001:EE0:4F4B:E490:B87D:62F0:BF7E:892F ( talk) 06:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
The clickable map under "Definition" (which I don't want to touch based on my ignorance of how) erroneously identifies the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (Guernsey and Jersey) as the United Kingdom. They are Crown Dependencies, not part of the United Kingdom, as explained in the article. Can someone correct it? [Christophales 7 Dec 2020]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.118.213.82 ( talk) 07:38, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
I figured out how to do it. I eliminated the "(UK)" for Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.
@ Schi11: The article Europe has always been plagued with having too many images. The preference has often been for maps and images related to Word War II. The starting section on "culture" seems to be a bit out of the control at the moment: so far the attempts to add an image gallery seem to have been arbitrary without any particular rationale. (Why choose Buckingham Palace?)
The history section already to some extent covers culture, but possibly without too much European art (including museums & galleries), architecture, music, literature, folk traditions and cuisine (cheese, wine, etc, etc). The choice is probably far too great; and ultimately making any choice will almost certainly result in some countries feeling left out. (That has always been a reason for not having too many images.) On the other hand a good general reference on Europe—perhaps written by something like National Geographic with an international perspective—might provide guidance. Looking at a particular country or even a large city, it is usually easier to see how to proceed. But having a very good source might provide more ideas and a clearer perspective. Mathsci ( talk) 18:12, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Here is another attempt:
Mathsci ( talk) 02:50, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Athens Acropolis: No - already in the article; Vatican Museums: I like St. Petersburg better; Imperial Treasury, Vienna: Worth discussing, but no; Alcázar of Seville: I think it's better than the Alhambra, also because of the palm trees on the picture - garden culture.
A geographical approach or experiment: Baltic Sea and Mediterranean; West, North, East, South and Middle. The text has not yet been fully thought out:
Schi11 ( talk) 08:37, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Comment on how images could theoretically be chosen
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Why doesn't this article have a simple political map showing the countries of Europe? Does none exist in Wiki-space? PorkHeart ( talk) 16:39, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The number 10,180,000 is inaccurate. According to the reference, the area of Europe is 10,186,000 km^2. Tehilla2 ( talk) 22:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The description under “The School of Athens” by Rafael in the early modern period section incorrectly names the central figures in the painting Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci, while the common understandings is that these central figures represent Plato and Aristotle. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry. After further research it seems I am incorrect. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:44, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
In Geography: Fauna, the paragraph immediately beneath the picture of the European Bison is just a list of animals instead of an informative sentence that makes some sort of assertion. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
In the Flora subsection of the Geography section, in the last sentence of the last paragraph, shouldn’t it say “westward” instead of “eastward”? Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
Besides the native speakers in Thrace and the several minorities in Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, North Macedonia, Kosovo, Ukraine, etc. L1 Turkish is also spoken by a large Diaspora in Western Europe. Not to mention that Turkish is the official language in Cyprus, Turkey and official minority languages in several eastern European countries. I think all these points would permit the listing of 'Turkish' in the sidebar of this article. Especially given the fact that the current 'Most used languages in Europe' list contains languages that are less spoken than Turkish in Europe. Having said this I'll also edit the number in the other wiki article about languages in Europe. 12.000.000 L1 speakers obviously only refers to Thrace, Cyprus and Bulgaria (and is also outdated). Which is not the total amount of L1 speakers in Europe. The census that was used for this number also dates from 2012. By using this source I have found that Eastern Thrace had a population of 11.872.908 in 2020. Adding the earlier stated 1.200.000 native turkish speakers in Cyprus and Bulgaria turns this number to almost 13.100.00 turkish speakers. And we have yet to include other Turkish natives in for example Kosovo or Greece. I also found a source that, based on a survey, made a count of how many people are speaking turkish from their mother tongue in the Diaspora. https://languageknowledge.eu/languages/turkish This survey was taken in 2012. In 2012 germany had a population of 80.330.000 and according to the site 2,33% of the german population had the Turkish mother tongue. This gives us the following number: 1.871.689 people who speak Turkish in Germany only. Doing the same for all other countries on that list except Bulgaria and Cyprus we get to a total of 2.679.765 + 11.872.908 + 1.200.000 = 15.752.673 L1 Turkish speakers in Europe. I honestly think the survey from 2012 underestimated the amount of turks that speak turkish from a mother tongue in Europe. But I don't have another source yet so this will do. I'll edit both pages now TheGroninger ( talk) 19:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Europe was historically assumed to be a continent but there's not much basis for this, as it is part of the same continental plate as Asia. I suggest we revise the opening sentence to acknowledge that it's actually a region of the Eurasian continent.
This
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Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
please change ((Klaipeda)) to ((Klaipėda)) 2601:541:4580:8500:31F0:E38D:6EB7:EE40 ( talk) 16:04, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Europe#Politics
Since the "clickable" part prevents it from being responsive and is merely a nice plaything, bad for accessibility too, wouldn't it be better to add the Country's names to the flags in the picture and list them as links in the description? Baerbeisser ( talk) 12:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I am unsure who creates the images, but the image of Europe in green needs to include the Greek islands, such as Lesvos and Rhodes, as they are part of Europe. Thank you! - Therealscorp1an ( talk) 00:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add this to the end of "There exists a political movement favouring the evolution of the European Union into a single federation encompassing much of the continent."
Europe and the EU are not interchangeable as not all of Europe is a member of the EU. Europe is used in Britain to describe Britain as part of the European continent. “You cannot deny geography. The UK is in Europe.” [1] HappyBiblia ( talk) 11:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
As the continent page covers in-depth, there are differing definitions and models for how to divide Earth's land into continents.
Wikipedia was, until the 19th October edit, internally consistent with 7-continents model. But now it is inconsistent, as someone edited "Europe is a continent" to "Europe is a landmass"
Let's compare the nouns used in current lead sentences:
Previously, Wikipedia described Europe, Africa, Asia, North America and South America ascontinents, Eurasia as a continental area, and Afro-Eurasia and the Americas as landmasses. We're now in an inconsistent state where Africa and Asia are continents, but Europe is a landmass. This isn't consistent with any of the continental models; if Europe isn't a continent, then the continent it belongs to is either Eurasia (in which case both Europe and Asia are landmasses, not continents), or Afro-Eurasia (in which case Africa, Europe and Asia are all landmasses and not continents). But that's not what was changed. Only Europe was relabeled "landmass" and both Asia and Africa are still continents.
Let's also look at Wikidata:
And even the Europe article itself, for example the hatnote:
Europe is a continent, not a landmass. Please edit it back to "Europe is a continent"... or start editing Africa, Asia, North and South America to say they are landmasses, not continents 31.111.26.32 ( talk) 00:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
References
Isn't that Europe image a bit big?
It is a map of Europe. It is what it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2F01:800E:2800:4446:A394:A091:B562 ( talk) 11:38, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
The lede of this article has evolved gradually, as the edit history shows (I've watched/edited it since 2007). At the moment the final sentence of the first para appears to have become essay-like and unstable. The first para appears to be about the two different types of geography ( physical geography and human geography)—as well as the concept of "continents" and "borders".
In later paragraphs "Western civilisation" is summarised in the context of the ancient world (possibly the topic of world history). Even for ancient Greece and Rome, that has required providing sources when disputes have risen. For the single sentence under discussion here, please read the relevant sections in the main article and identify the best reliable sources used (one or two probably suffices). It can then be checked that those WP:RS accurately summarise that single sentence. That sentence might possibly need to be modified, but that can be determined by consensus. As on previous occasions, adding citations should hopefully solve any potential problems. Mathsci ( talk) 17:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
This
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Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kazakhstan should not be in the list of countries since it is located in Asia and not in Europe 2A02:587:4992:2500:D812:E6F5:5508:71CD ( talk) 14:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Is Slovenia in Europe 2A00:23C6:4182:D501:FDFE:F0F7:3847:6BFE ( talk) 18:29, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
This
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Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update the url below to the current url.
Change
"A pena do degredo nas Ordenações do Reino". Archived from the original on 6 July 2011. Retrieved 18 August 2010.
to
"A pena do degredo nas Ordenações do Reino". PaulogustavoPI ( talk) 13:20, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
The Russian population in Europe is not 144,0000,000. Change it or delete it. Stop being lazy and ridiculous. Or do you want to keep Wikipedia looking incorrect and silly? Sirhissofloxley ( talk) 21:11, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Train routes, ships and cargos, airplanes and such things should be a topic of europe 46.99.132.202 ( talk) 20:09, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes I know, Europe is pretty hard to see, but once after cropping it would be a bit better. This is the best image that I can find for Europe. What do you guys think? CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 13:09, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
I think this would be in the economy section: Europe has a long history as the world's richest and most productive part of the world. At the time of Christ's birth is estimated western European output per capita was approximately 30% higher than the world average. Year 1500 had this advantage increased to 40%. [1] After the development of science and the Industrial Revolution in Europe grew its lead quickly, in 1700 produced an average European almost 70% more than world's average population, and in 1850 was taken over the entire 150%. Around the year 1900 was Western Europe's leading role as the world's most productive area has been taken over by the former European colony of the United States, but Europe has continued to belong to the world's richest, most productive and knowledge-producing regions. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.103.205.2 ( talk • contribs) 12 January 2011
References
As native, I would like to declare that "Ukrayina" sounds closer to national variation rather than "Ukrajina".
Turkish language has at least 15 million native speakers in Europe. It is more than the number of Greek speakers. It should be mentioned in the infobox under Most common first languages:.
Portuguese is spoken by at least 10 million. should be included. This makes Wikipedia innacurate. 92.250.62.67 ( talk) 21:08, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
For correction 86.97.36.199 ( talk) 18:18, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Reason being is that the economy of the European Union is a recognized entity of the G20 major economies and numerous UN agencies. Furthermore, official data is provided by the IMF, so I see NO reason for any member to insist on excluding it from the table. Thanks. Pyruvate ( talk) 07:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
How is Europe a peninsula? Is Australia an island? Is Africa a peninsula because it's surrounded on 3 sides by water? Or cand you call America an island? Europe is a continent from a geographical point of wiew. It might be a good idea to remove the "peninsula part". 46.97.177.247 ( talk) 09:54, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I find the map of modern Europe that the page contains incredibly frustrating to use. I think I am speaking for the majority of users that when looking at a map of modern-day Europe one of the first things, the most basic things, I'd expect to see are the country borders clearly delineated (along with major cities, major rivers, too).
But the political boundaries are given short shrift at the benefit of information that seem clearly secondary (like highways)
If there is too much information to include in one map (which is easy to believe) then how about adding one more map, the sort of typical High-School textook type with the nations of Europe shown in different colors (again, like several of the historic maps)
Instead, on this map, which I'm sure someone thinks is very clever, they are essentially impossible to make out. The hard to see purple lines that are used to outline countries are very difficult to differentiate from the only slightly narrower purple lines used to define local state boundaries.
The final impression is that it's just one big Europe with France sort of indistinctly "around here, roughly" but seamlessly blending into Belgium "over there".
And using this map it is virtually impossible to see the shape of France, Germany or any other nation at a glance, and what counties it borders, and other things like that.
It would be nice if someone worked to put a more basic politcal map of Europe into this article, so that it would be useful to, for example, showing to a 10 year old to discuss where all the World Cup teams are from. As it stands: it completely fails at that.
The modern map that fails to make political boundaries visible (perhaps an ideologically driven decision? It is here:
ZeroXero ( talk) 00:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
Europa has quite a big landborder with Asia. Unlike most peninsulas, there is no clear boundary between it and the landmass it's connected to. Why is Europe called a peninsula in this article instead of a subcontinent, or just a region in Eurasia? Wikifan153 ( talk) 16:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Though Cyprus is included as a European state, it is absent (coloured grey rather than Green) on the map of Europe. Can a tech-savvy editor correct this? Politis ( talk) 23:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
The introductory paragraphs do a good job of synthetising the history of Europe, but they don't mention anything about religion, and especially of the shift from Paganism to Christianity and, in more recent times, the spread of more secular worldviews. Christianity in particular, while born in Asia, has had a pivotal importance in European history and still is extremely relevant on a cultural level. 79.30.92.106 ( talk) 01:20, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Why is the measure of total area of Europe indicated to be less than total area of Russia ? If there is a mention of the area of Europe excluding the area of Russia that is not easily apparent. Solo-man ( talk) 22:27, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
This
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Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove UK its no longer part of the EU due to Brexit 71.169.177.139 ( talk) 23:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template. -
FlightTime (
open channel)
23:21, 16 March 2023 (UTC)I deleted the following from the religion section "The Czech Republic, Estonia, Sweden, Germany (especially the eastern part) and France are home to a particularly large numbers of irreligious people. [1]"
Nothing is wrong with the source except that it is 25 year old. A claim about demographic makeup made so long ago (a full generation) may easily misrepresent the more current status quo. As the argument is not central to the narrative I think it is better to move it here for now and see whether we can update it, and otherwise just remove it (rather than leaving such outdated information in the article.)
Arnoutf ( talk) 18:13, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
There is a typo "According to a population projection of the UN Population Division, Europe's population may fall to between 680 and 720 people by 2050, which would be 7% of the world population at that time." I guess the word "million" is missing. I also would note that this seem to belong more to the Demographics section as it is not about ethnic groups. Krautzalajos ( talk) 11:04, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
What is the true area of Europe? According to this article, the area of Europe is 10,180,000 sq km, but a lot of the sources I found on the Internet state that the area of Europe is 9,938,000 sq km. Should we change that?
Sources:
1. https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eulandst.htm
2. https://placeandthings.com/europe/
3. https://www.ezilon.com/about-europe.htm
4. https://worldpopulace.com/continents/
5. https://globalization12b.wordpress.com/global-goods-local-costs/europe/
6. https://www.enchantedlearning.com/geography/continents/Land.shtml
2001:8003:900C:5301:A848:31BE:8A2:6544 ( talk) 06:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Note (a) very accurately points out that Europe is usually considered to be a continent in the English-speaking world.
Is this not a more accurate way to open the article as compared with "Europe is a continent..." What is the basis for this assertion?
I openly accept that the term "continent" is vague in common usage, really meaning only "large land mass".
Nevertheless, the article on continent handles this much more elegantly: Continent
Can we not improve this article accordingly? IsabellaOL ( talk) 14:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
On 04:05, 28 August 2023,
I replaced an
infobox map. My edit summary was, "replaced identical projection map that was basically a duplicate, with a map with countries names, per MOS:IMAGE, "Use the best quality images available. Poor-quality images—dark or blurry; showing the subject too small, hidden in clutter, or ambiguous; and so on—should not be used unless absolutely necessary. Think carefully about which images best illustrate the subject matter."
I do think that for readers it is more useful having a map with the European countries' names than a map only showing the borders of said countries. The intercontinental border is not perfect but I couldn't find another map of Europe with countries' names in English in Commons so I decided to upload this that I found elsewhere. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:41, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
Kyiv is the 7th largest city in Europe, but it is not on the list. add Septemberten ( talk) 08:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
The first sentence "The political map of Europe is substantially derived from the re-organisation of Europe following the Napoleonic Wars in 1815." is nonsense. Compare political map of Europe from 1815 (which moreover shows "congress Poland" that did not exist in fact), which is in this article, with recent political map of Europe. Much more important were later unifications of Italy and Germany, new countries in Balkan, new countries after first WW, new countries after breaks of Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
Which of these countries existed in 1816: Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine? None! And these were only examples, not full list. Nadsenec2 ( talk) 15:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
The wiki states:
> The next largest cities in order of population are Madrid, Saint Petersburg, Milan, Barcelona, Berlin, and Rome each having over three million residents.
Citing a source dated to 2016. But if you click to the suggested Wiki page for further information, it contains way more recent data and a different ranking ( List of European cities by population within city limits)
I would update it, but the page is restricted so I'm bringing it up here. Leonardobe ( talk) 21:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I find the .eu reference inappropriate, it seems to derive from (and feed into) a confusion between Europe and the EU, which are two very different things:
- Less than 50% of the area in Europe is controlled by the EU (this is true even if you include disputed territories in Ukraine).
- Some parts of the EU are not even in Europe! E.g. Ceuta and Canary Islands. Robert1dB ( talk) 11:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
We have an article: .eu. It is the top-level domain for the European Union. Not the same thing as Europe, the continent, which is the subject of this article. I agree that it doesn't belong in this article. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 16:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Cyprus and Armenia are not geographically located in Europe. They are only associated with Europe, and thus should be removed from the list. Can somebody change it, because the page is currently protected. Thank you in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1 ( talk) 13:14, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
The article says 17.9% of European population is muslim, that would be around 135 million people. The source cited to support this information and also other articles on wikipedia itself (see ‘muslims in Europe’) clearly state that they are around 45 million, so around 6% 151.18.129.5 ( talk) 09:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
This article mentions that Russia is a part of Europe but last I checked , it was a part of Asia.If Russia used to be in Europe , then I would have excused this mistake but it was NEVER part of Europe.Any thoughts? 180.151.17.56 ( talk) 12:41, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
So far the article does not mention climate change once. How would people feel if I added an excerpt to climate change in Europe to this article, perhaps below the section on "climate"? I think an excerpt is better than new text because this is something that will continually change over time, and would then have to be updated in two places, not just one. Compare also with how it's done for the Africa article. Pinging User:Chidgk1 and User:RCraig09 for comment. EMsmile ( talk) 11:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
Khirurg (
talk ·
contribs) and I have both been editing in the third paragraph of the lead today and have a difference of opinion as to how best to word its first sentence. This user favors the wording: The earliest advanced civilizations in Europe sprang up in ancient Greece and Italy (most notably in Rome), and as a result these societies are the foundation of Western civilization.
For a number of reasons I believe that my initial wording of the sentence is better: The earliest city-states in Europe sprang up in ancient Greece and Italy (most notably in Rome), and in this sense these societies form the foundation of Western civilization.
This user's edit summary when initially changing my version to theirs read minor reword; not just city-states (e.g. Macedonia, Etruscans, etc.
This reasoning did not seem to me logical to me, nor did the edit in any way improve readability or sense, so I reverted, stating in my summary: Not an improvement: circular. Also, ancient Italy is inclusive of Etruscan civilization
. Khirurg then reverted my revert stating not an improvement" is not an argument
. I again reverted stating Please observe WP:BRD; when you are reverted the proper next step is to open a Talk page section. This is a very minor content dispute so please do not escalate. And please respond to my whole edit summary, not just the part you find it easiest to dispute.
Khirurg then reverted once again, stating WP:BRD applies to you, and don't lecture me about "the proper next step is to open a Talk page section" and "do not escalate". If you revert again I will report you for a 3RR violation. There is nothing "circular" about my edit.
In order to avoid escalating the matter further and falling into edit war territory, I ask that we continue the conversation here. Any additional input on the matter from other editors would be quite helpful.
Generalrelative (
talk)
21:19, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
the foundational cultures of Europe. Other European cultures have their own roots. That's clear as day. The word "civilization" has several senses, and only in the special sense of "city building society" do Greece and Rome qualify as foundational. Further, WP:WEASEL refers to
words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated. My version, however, makes the sentence more specific by focusing in on the specific sense of "civilization" used there. Those are my substantive arguments, though I suspect we'll need a third opinion to settle this. Anyone else care to weigh in here? Generalrelative ( talk) 03:14, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
the foundational cultures of Europewas verbatim from your previous comment. And no, it is not straightforwardly true that Greece and Rome were the
earliest advanced civilizations in Europebecause "advanced" is not an objective judgment. Weren't the builders of Stonehenge in their own way "advanced"? Where you draw the line and what criteria you count as "advanced" has an irreducible degree of arbitrariness to it, and thus the term is not encyclopedic. The statement that these societies are
the foundational cultures of Western civilizationis even more arbitrary if we understand "civilization" in its broader sense as "culture". Aspects of other cultures certainly contributed to Western civilization so why single out those of Greece and Rome as "foundational"? Again, there is no objective rationale here. That's why it's so important that we be clear that we're speaking of civilization in its narrower sense as "city-building societies" if we're going to speak of Greece and Rome as foundational to Western civilization.
The civilizations of Classical Greece and Ancient Rome are considered seminal periods in Western history. I'd be fine with swapping out "Western history" for "European history" and making that the first sentence of paragraph 3. Thoughts? Generalrelative ( talk) 03:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
long-standingwas false, I've now been accused of edit warring by Dr.K. ( talk · contribs) for restoring that compromise language. For my part, I find the charge spurious, given that I've followed WP:BRD throughout, seeking a third opinion to resolve the dispute as recommended in WP:CON –– and indeed, found one. However at this point I will leave it to others to finish the job of fixing this sentence if they choose. Life is simply too short to allow minor content disputes to devolve into acrimony. Generalrelative ( talk) 15:30, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Nick.mon recently removed one image of Hitler in Finland ini 1942, in favor of another of Hitler and Mussolini standing together in this edit, and then followed with this one. Sources were removed at the same time, so I reverted. But, the caption in the Finland image was very clunky, and deserved to be fixed up. Plus, although Nick.mon didn't give a justification for the image swap, so we don't know their their intent or how it's supposed to improve the article, I can see an argument that the second image is better. Should we keep the first one and just fix up the clunky caption? Go with the second one? Or a completely new image? Or neither? What do others think? Mathglot ( talk) 18:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
"European culture is the root of Western civilization, which traces its lineage back to ancient Greece and ancient Rome."
This sentence, which begins the third paragraph, places emphasis on Greece and Rome as the most ancient and/or prominent forces that created western civilisation. While they certainly had a major impact on future European civilisations, other equally-old cultures would also have big cultural and linguistic impacts in the European cultures and civilisations that would rise after the classical period and the fall of Rome.
Western civilisation, as defined by Wikipedia, is not just 'the stuff that came from Rome and Greece', but all Europe.
/info/en/?search=Western_culture
"Western culture, sometimes equated with Western civilization, Occidental culture, the Western world, Western society, and European civilization, is the heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, artifacts and technologies that originated in or are associated with Europe."
One big example I can think of are the Germanic peoples that moved into Roman territories in the Migration Period. While they did adopt and emulate a lot of Roman stuff, the form civilisations would take in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire would be unrecognisable if you removed the linguistic and cultural influences of the Germanic peoples.
Furthermore, there is more to Europe than the bits Rome and Greece played around in. The further north and east you go, the less influence they had culturally and linguistically. The Romans never conquered Scandinavia, with Scandinavian cultures having their own roots, but Scandinavia is absolutely part of Europe and so part of western civilisation. While you could go "Ah, but western civilisation, specifically the civilisation bit, is about cities", that's not what western civilisation is defined as in the Western Culture page of Wikipedia, which is what 'Western civilization' in the top-most quoted sentence links to. Western civilisation, as defined by the page that the quote links to, is about a whole massive bunch of cultural European stuff, not specifically and exclusively cities. Killer113 ( talk) 01:34, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
I would expect Austria's coat of arms to be the eagle, as shown on Austria's page. Any reason why the list of states uses a different one? -- Bfx0 ( talk) 20:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
In some countries of Eastern Europe, students are thought that there are only six continents since Eurasia is treated as a single landmass on account of it being... a single landmass So what defines Europe? historically, there is one easy definition that defines European countries from Asia: "It has a history of starting wars (Unless you are the Swiss)". 2001:EE0:4F4B:E490:B87D:62F0:BF7E:892F ( talk) 06:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
The clickable map under "Definition" (which I don't want to touch based on my ignorance of how) erroneously identifies the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (Guernsey and Jersey) as the United Kingdom. They are Crown Dependencies, not part of the United Kingdom, as explained in the article. Can someone correct it? [Christophales 7 Dec 2020]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.118.213.82 ( talk) 07:38, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
I figured out how to do it. I eliminated the "(UK)" for Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.
@ Schi11: The article Europe has always been plagued with having too many images. The preference has often been for maps and images related to Word War II. The starting section on "culture" seems to be a bit out of the control at the moment: so far the attempts to add an image gallery seem to have been arbitrary without any particular rationale. (Why choose Buckingham Palace?)
The history section already to some extent covers culture, but possibly without too much European art (including museums & galleries), architecture, music, literature, folk traditions and cuisine (cheese, wine, etc, etc). The choice is probably far too great; and ultimately making any choice will almost certainly result in some countries feeling left out. (That has always been a reason for not having too many images.) On the other hand a good general reference on Europe—perhaps written by something like National Geographic with an international perspective—might provide guidance. Looking at a particular country or even a large city, it is usually easier to see how to proceed. But having a very good source might provide more ideas and a clearer perspective. Mathsci ( talk) 18:12, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Here is another attempt:
Mathsci ( talk) 02:50, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Athens Acropolis: No - already in the article; Vatican Museums: I like St. Petersburg better; Imperial Treasury, Vienna: Worth discussing, but no; Alcázar of Seville: I think it's better than the Alhambra, also because of the palm trees on the picture - garden culture.
A geographical approach or experiment: Baltic Sea and Mediterranean; West, North, East, South and Middle. The text has not yet been fully thought out:
Schi11 ( talk) 08:37, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Comment on how images could theoretically be chosen
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Why doesn't this article have a simple political map showing the countries of Europe? Does none exist in Wiki-space? PorkHeart ( talk) 16:39, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The number 10,180,000 is inaccurate. According to the reference, the area of Europe is 10,186,000 km^2. Tehilla2 ( talk) 22:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The description under “The School of Athens” by Rafael in the early modern period section incorrectly names the central figures in the painting Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci, while the common understandings is that these central figures represent Plato and Aristotle. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry. After further research it seems I am incorrect. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:44, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
In Geography: Fauna, the paragraph immediately beneath the picture of the European Bison is just a list of animals instead of an informative sentence that makes some sort of assertion. Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
In the Flora subsection of the Geography section, in the last sentence of the last paragraph, shouldn’t it say “westward” instead of “eastward”? Tehilla2 ( talk) 21:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
Besides the native speakers in Thrace and the several minorities in Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, North Macedonia, Kosovo, Ukraine, etc. L1 Turkish is also spoken by a large Diaspora in Western Europe. Not to mention that Turkish is the official language in Cyprus, Turkey and official minority languages in several eastern European countries. I think all these points would permit the listing of 'Turkish' in the sidebar of this article. Especially given the fact that the current 'Most used languages in Europe' list contains languages that are less spoken than Turkish in Europe. Having said this I'll also edit the number in the other wiki article about languages in Europe. 12.000.000 L1 speakers obviously only refers to Thrace, Cyprus and Bulgaria (and is also outdated). Which is not the total amount of L1 speakers in Europe. The census that was used for this number also dates from 2012. By using this source I have found that Eastern Thrace had a population of 11.872.908 in 2020. Adding the earlier stated 1.200.000 native turkish speakers in Cyprus and Bulgaria turns this number to almost 13.100.00 turkish speakers. And we have yet to include other Turkish natives in for example Kosovo or Greece. I also found a source that, based on a survey, made a count of how many people are speaking turkish from their mother tongue in the Diaspora. https://languageknowledge.eu/languages/turkish This survey was taken in 2012. In 2012 germany had a population of 80.330.000 and according to the site 2,33% of the german population had the Turkish mother tongue. This gives us the following number: 1.871.689 people who speak Turkish in Germany only. Doing the same for all other countries on that list except Bulgaria and Cyprus we get to a total of 2.679.765 + 11.872.908 + 1.200.000 = 15.752.673 L1 Turkish speakers in Europe. I honestly think the survey from 2012 underestimated the amount of turks that speak turkish from a mother tongue in Europe. But I don't have another source yet so this will do. I'll edit both pages now TheGroninger ( talk) 19:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Europe was historically assumed to be a continent but there's not much basis for this, as it is part of the same continental plate as Asia. I suggest we revise the opening sentence to acknowledge that it's actually a region of the Eurasian continent.
This
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please change ((Klaipeda)) to ((Klaipėda)) 2601:541:4580:8500:31F0:E38D:6EB7:EE40 ( talk) 16:04, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Europe#Politics
Since the "clickable" part prevents it from being responsive and is merely a nice plaything, bad for accessibility too, wouldn't it be better to add the Country's names to the flags in the picture and list them as links in the description? Baerbeisser ( talk) 12:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I am unsure who creates the images, but the image of Europe in green needs to include the Greek islands, such as Lesvos and Rhodes, as they are part of Europe. Thank you! - Therealscorp1an ( talk) 00:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
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Add this to the end of "There exists a political movement favouring the evolution of the European Union into a single federation encompassing much of the continent."
Europe and the EU are not interchangeable as not all of Europe is a member of the EU. Europe is used in Britain to describe Britain as part of the European continent. “You cannot deny geography. The UK is in Europe.” [1] HappyBiblia ( talk) 11:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
As the continent page covers in-depth, there are differing definitions and models for how to divide Earth's land into continents.
Wikipedia was, until the 19th October edit, internally consistent with 7-continents model. But now it is inconsistent, as someone edited "Europe is a continent" to "Europe is a landmass"
Let's compare the nouns used in current lead sentences:
Previously, Wikipedia described Europe, Africa, Asia, North America and South America ascontinents, Eurasia as a continental area, and Afro-Eurasia and the Americas as landmasses. We're now in an inconsistent state where Africa and Asia are continents, but Europe is a landmass. This isn't consistent with any of the continental models; if Europe isn't a continent, then the continent it belongs to is either Eurasia (in which case both Europe and Asia are landmasses, not continents), or Afro-Eurasia (in which case Africa, Europe and Asia are all landmasses and not continents). But that's not what was changed. Only Europe was relabeled "landmass" and both Asia and Africa are still continents.
Let's also look at Wikidata:
And even the Europe article itself, for example the hatnote:
Europe is a continent, not a landmass. Please edit it back to "Europe is a continent"... or start editing Africa, Asia, North and South America to say they are landmasses, not continents 31.111.26.32 ( talk) 00:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
References
Isn't that Europe image a bit big?
It is a map of Europe. It is what it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2F01:800E:2800:4446:A394:A091:B562 ( talk) 11:38, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
The lede of this article has evolved gradually, as the edit history shows (I've watched/edited it since 2007). At the moment the final sentence of the first para appears to have become essay-like and unstable. The first para appears to be about the two different types of geography ( physical geography and human geography)—as well as the concept of "continents" and "borders".
In later paragraphs "Western civilisation" is summarised in the context of the ancient world (possibly the topic of world history). Even for ancient Greece and Rome, that has required providing sources when disputes have risen. For the single sentence under discussion here, please read the relevant sections in the main article and identify the best reliable sources used (one or two probably suffices). It can then be checked that those WP:RS accurately summarise that single sentence. That sentence might possibly need to be modified, but that can be determined by consensus. As on previous occasions, adding citations should hopefully solve any potential problems. Mathsci ( talk) 17:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
This
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Kazakhstan should not be in the list of countries since it is located in Asia and not in Europe 2A02:587:4992:2500:D812:E6F5:5508:71CD ( talk) 14:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Is Slovenia in Europe 2A00:23C6:4182:D501:FDFE:F0F7:3847:6BFE ( talk) 18:29, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
This
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Europe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update the url below to the current url.
Change
"A pena do degredo nas Ordenações do Reino". Archived from the original on 6 July 2011. Retrieved 18 August 2010.
to
"A pena do degredo nas Ordenações do Reino". PaulogustavoPI ( talk) 13:20, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
The Russian population in Europe is not 144,0000,000. Change it or delete it. Stop being lazy and ridiculous. Or do you want to keep Wikipedia looking incorrect and silly? Sirhissofloxley ( talk) 21:11, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Train routes, ships and cargos, airplanes and such things should be a topic of europe 46.99.132.202 ( talk) 20:09, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes I know, Europe is pretty hard to see, but once after cropping it would be a bit better. This is the best image that I can find for Europe. What do you guys think? CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 13:09, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
I think this would be in the economy section: Europe has a long history as the world's richest and most productive part of the world. At the time of Christ's birth is estimated western European output per capita was approximately 30% higher than the world average. Year 1500 had this advantage increased to 40%. [1] After the development of science and the Industrial Revolution in Europe grew its lead quickly, in 1700 produced an average European almost 70% more than world's average population, and in 1850 was taken over the entire 150%. Around the year 1900 was Western Europe's leading role as the world's most productive area has been taken over by the former European colony of the United States, but Europe has continued to belong to the world's richest, most productive and knowledge-producing regions. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.103.205.2 ( talk • contribs) 12 January 2011
References
As native, I would like to declare that "Ukrayina" sounds closer to national variation rather than "Ukrajina".
Turkish language has at least 15 million native speakers in Europe. It is more than the number of Greek speakers. It should be mentioned in the infobox under Most common first languages:.
Portuguese is spoken by at least 10 million. should be included. This makes Wikipedia innacurate. 92.250.62.67 ( talk) 21:08, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
For correction 86.97.36.199 ( talk) 18:18, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Reason being is that the economy of the European Union is a recognized entity of the G20 major economies and numerous UN agencies. Furthermore, official data is provided by the IMF, so I see NO reason for any member to insist on excluding it from the table. Thanks. Pyruvate ( talk) 07:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
How is Europe a peninsula? Is Australia an island? Is Africa a peninsula because it's surrounded on 3 sides by water? Or cand you call America an island? Europe is a continent from a geographical point of wiew. It might be a good idea to remove the "peninsula part". 46.97.177.247 ( talk) 09:54, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I find the map of modern Europe that the page contains incredibly frustrating to use. I think I am speaking for the majority of users that when looking at a map of modern-day Europe one of the first things, the most basic things, I'd expect to see are the country borders clearly delineated (along with major cities, major rivers, too).
But the political boundaries are given short shrift at the benefit of information that seem clearly secondary (like highways)
If there is too much information to include in one map (which is easy to believe) then how about adding one more map, the sort of typical High-School textook type with the nations of Europe shown in different colors (again, like several of the historic maps)
Instead, on this map, which I'm sure someone thinks is very clever, they are essentially impossible to make out. The hard to see purple lines that are used to outline countries are very difficult to differentiate from the only slightly narrower purple lines used to define local state boundaries.
The final impression is that it's just one big Europe with France sort of indistinctly "around here, roughly" but seamlessly blending into Belgium "over there".
And using this map it is virtually impossible to see the shape of France, Germany or any other nation at a glance, and what counties it borders, and other things like that.
It would be nice if someone worked to put a more basic politcal map of Europe into this article, so that it would be useful to, for example, showing to a 10 year old to discuss where all the World Cup teams are from. As it stands: it completely fails at that.
The modern map that fails to make political boundaries visible (perhaps an ideologically driven decision? It is here:
ZeroXero ( talk) 00:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
Europa has quite a big landborder with Asia. Unlike most peninsulas, there is no clear boundary between it and the landmass it's connected to. Why is Europe called a peninsula in this article instead of a subcontinent, or just a region in Eurasia? Wikifan153 ( talk) 16:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Though Cyprus is included as a European state, it is absent (coloured grey rather than Green) on the map of Europe. Can a tech-savvy editor correct this? Politis ( talk) 23:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
The introductory paragraphs do a good job of synthetising the history of Europe, but they don't mention anything about religion, and especially of the shift from Paganism to Christianity and, in more recent times, the spread of more secular worldviews. Christianity in particular, while born in Asia, has had a pivotal importance in European history and still is extremely relevant on a cultural level. 79.30.92.106 ( talk) 01:20, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Why is the measure of total area of Europe indicated to be less than total area of Russia ? If there is a mention of the area of Europe excluding the area of Russia that is not easily apparent. Solo-man ( talk) 22:27, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
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Remove UK its no longer part of the EU due to Brexit 71.169.177.139 ( talk) 23:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template. -
FlightTime (
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23:21, 16 March 2023 (UTC)I deleted the following from the religion section "The Czech Republic, Estonia, Sweden, Germany (especially the eastern part) and France are home to a particularly large numbers of irreligious people. [1]"
Nothing is wrong with the source except that it is 25 year old. A claim about demographic makeup made so long ago (a full generation) may easily misrepresent the more current status quo. As the argument is not central to the narrative I think it is better to move it here for now and see whether we can update it, and otherwise just remove it (rather than leaving such outdated information in the article.)
Arnoutf ( talk) 18:13, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
There is a typo "According to a population projection of the UN Population Division, Europe's population may fall to between 680 and 720 people by 2050, which would be 7% of the world population at that time." I guess the word "million" is missing. I also would note that this seem to belong more to the Demographics section as it is not about ethnic groups. Krautzalajos ( talk) 11:04, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
What is the true area of Europe? According to this article, the area of Europe is 10,180,000 sq km, but a lot of the sources I found on the Internet state that the area of Europe is 9,938,000 sq km. Should we change that?
Sources:
1. https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eulandst.htm
2. https://placeandthings.com/europe/
3. https://www.ezilon.com/about-europe.htm
4. https://worldpopulace.com/continents/
5. https://globalization12b.wordpress.com/global-goods-local-costs/europe/
6. https://www.enchantedlearning.com/geography/continents/Land.shtml
2001:8003:900C:5301:A848:31BE:8A2:6544 ( talk) 06:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Note (a) very accurately points out that Europe is usually considered to be a continent in the English-speaking world.
Is this not a more accurate way to open the article as compared with "Europe is a continent..." What is the basis for this assertion?
I openly accept that the term "continent" is vague in common usage, really meaning only "large land mass".
Nevertheless, the article on continent handles this much more elegantly: Continent
Can we not improve this article accordingly? IsabellaOL ( talk) 14:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
On 04:05, 28 August 2023,
I replaced an
infobox map. My edit summary was, "replaced identical projection map that was basically a duplicate, with a map with countries names, per MOS:IMAGE, "Use the best quality images available. Poor-quality images—dark or blurry; showing the subject too small, hidden in clutter, or ambiguous; and so on—should not be used unless absolutely necessary. Think carefully about which images best illustrate the subject matter."
I do think that for readers it is more useful having a map with the European countries' names than a map only showing the borders of said countries. The intercontinental border is not perfect but I couldn't find another map of Europe with countries' names in English in Commons so I decided to upload this that I found elsewhere. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:41, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
Kyiv is the 7th largest city in Europe, but it is not on the list. add Septemberten ( talk) 08:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
The first sentence "The political map of Europe is substantially derived from the re-organisation of Europe following the Napoleonic Wars in 1815." is nonsense. Compare political map of Europe from 1815 (which moreover shows "congress Poland" that did not exist in fact), which is in this article, with recent political map of Europe. Much more important were later unifications of Italy and Germany, new countries in Balkan, new countries after first WW, new countries after breaks of Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
Which of these countries existed in 1816: Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine? None! And these were only examples, not full list. Nadsenec2 ( talk) 15:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
The wiki states:
> The next largest cities in order of population are Madrid, Saint Petersburg, Milan, Barcelona, Berlin, and Rome each having over three million residents.
Citing a source dated to 2016. But if you click to the suggested Wiki page for further information, it contains way more recent data and a different ranking ( List of European cities by population within city limits)
I would update it, but the page is restricted so I'm bringing it up here. Leonardobe ( talk) 21:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I find the .eu reference inappropriate, it seems to derive from (and feed into) a confusion between Europe and the EU, which are two very different things:
- Less than 50% of the area in Europe is controlled by the EU (this is true even if you include disputed territories in Ukraine).
- Some parts of the EU are not even in Europe! E.g. Ceuta and Canary Islands. Robert1dB ( talk) 11:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
We have an article: .eu. It is the top-level domain for the European Union. Not the same thing as Europe, the continent, which is the subject of this article. I agree that it doesn't belong in this article. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 16:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Cyprus and Armenia are not geographically located in Europe. They are only associated with Europe, and thus should be removed from the list. Can somebody change it, because the page is currently protected. Thank you in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1 ( talk) 13:14, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
The article says 17.9% of European population is muslim, that would be around 135 million people. The source cited to support this information and also other articles on wikipedia itself (see ‘muslims in Europe’) clearly state that they are around 45 million, so around 6% 151.18.129.5 ( talk) 09:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
This article mentions that Russia is a part of Europe but last I checked , it was a part of Asia.If Russia used to be in Europe , then I would have excused this mistake but it was NEVER part of Europe.Any thoughts? 180.151.17.56 ( talk) 12:41, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
So far the article does not mention climate change once. How would people feel if I added an excerpt to climate change in Europe to this article, perhaps below the section on "climate"? I think an excerpt is better than new text because this is something that will continually change over time, and would then have to be updated in two places, not just one. Compare also with how it's done for the Africa article. Pinging User:Chidgk1 and User:RCraig09 for comment. EMsmile ( talk) 11:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)