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I wasn't aware of any past history with this article subject but having created an article (eager to face the challenge of putting up a webcomic article and see if it could prevail over any eventual prodding or AFD) it got speedied as a "Recreation of deleted material". Obviously I didn't and wasn't aware there had ever been one, but it got tagged by a user who a few months ago suggested the namespace salted at ANI. An unknown admin sealed the deal before I knew anything about it, so I don't much feel like the beneficiary of AGF here. Anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Murgh disc. 11:25, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
But as Frederick day suggests, I'll ask the peergroup to advise, and suggest whether the sources make it worthwhile to pursue. If someone with the power to revert the userspace move from User:Murgh/Sore Thumbs could do that, it would be cool. Murgh disc. 19:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
so (unless this is terribly inappropriate), if peers with a moment to spare could share a weighed opinion in an in-house AFD mock-up, to previsualize deletion review response, it would be very helpful and give an idea if it's worth it:
mock nomination: Unreferenced article, no assertion of notability. Previously failed an AFD. Please don't let this turn into WP:ILIKEIT. Does not meet notability (per WP:WEB. Murgh disc. 19:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. Thank you for opinions and advice. From the varied response to the sources, I suppose it won't hurt to sit on it until more convincing sources appear. Murgh disc. 17:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I see no reason for these to be separate categories. You would think that "CrossGen comics" would be a list of all comics / works by CrossGen but instead they are listed under CrossGen titles - this confused me at first. I recommend that they are merged into one category and use that one on each of the pages rather than one or the other. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia so I wanted to get some feedback on this before doing it myself.-- Campbecf 11:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The bots continue to grind through flagging things up as lacking a fair use rationale. I haven't done one (and am busy flagging this up in other projects) so will drop the messages in if anyone wants to address them (we might as well save them now as most woud need reuploading anyway with the FUR attached) if anyone wants to address them: Talk:CrossGen, Talk:Secret City Saga, Talk:Carnet de Voyage, Talk:Cattivik, Talk:Blackheartâ, Talk:Massimo Belardinelli, Talk:Ventriloquist (comics)â, Talk:Avengelyne, Talk:All Star Superman. Although I haven't done one the FYR seems fairly straightforward - is there a general version for the project that we can adapt? ( Emperor 13:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC))
{{Non-free fair use rationale
|Description = A (COVER) scan of INSERT NAME.
|Source = LINK TO IMAGE (OR NAME EXACT SOURCE).
|Portion = The cover of one issue
|Purpose = To demonstrate the COMIC/CHARACTER in question.
|Resolution = Yes. Actual cover is much larger, size is such that sales are unaffected.
|Replaceability = No free alternative available as it is UNDER COPYRIGHT/THE ACTUAL PRODUCT.
|Other_information = IMAGE RELEASED FOR PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES
}}
Feel free to update/add to. We could either produce a couple of versions for different circumstances or one with different bits to delete where applicable. The various statements will tend to be pretty similar but there will obviously need to be specific information added for each one. Other information is optional but worth including if it helps your case - worth noting is that publishers do tend to release covers (of comics and trades) for promotional purposes. Would it help if we fired off an email to various publishers getting a blanket OK to use covers and appropriate scans as long as we didn't abuse it? That would allow us to beef up the "other information" section and make the FURG rock solid. ( Emperor 00:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC))
Sigh. We missed one: Image:Incredible-hulk-20060221015639117.jpg. This was the main image for Hulk (comics). I'm trying to ascertain who tagged it, because whoever it was didn't put a warning on the article's talk page. Presumably, they notified the uploader. Still, I plan to ask them to put a warning on the article next time, since many of the original uploaders are no longer around. -- GentlemanGhost 16:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
A discussion of the mass flagging of the images and the need for temporarily suspending speedy deletion when there is no fair use rationale is taking place at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/FURG. We should definitely keep fixing them as we find them, though. -- GentlemanGhost 19:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
http://batmanytb.com/ has again become a contentious addition to the Batman page. My rational for removing it was two fold. First, User talk:Xphermg made a series of edits to pages from Wonder Woman to Huntress and to Justice Society of America, all adding links to batmanytb or dcuytb. While I feel that the edits were in good faith (that is 'hey look at this cool site!') the sheer number of additions, coupled with his constant reverting without discussion, made me feel this was falling under link-spam, and we maybe should take a step back. I reverted his edits, mentioned this on his talk page, and alerted Doczilla, who I'd noticed was also reverting him. Secondly, as was pointed out on his talk page, and supported by comments by Xphermg, the site is a store, and serves as an Amazon Store Front. This makes adding it a little weird to me. Since this has started to cross over into multiple pages, I thought it best to pull in the discussions here to allow other editors to chime in. I don't think Xphermg means harm, but the volume of links being added, and now the possible spite deletion of other sites that 'have advertisement', is making me Spock the Brow. -- Ipstenu ( talk ⢠contribs) 18:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
As a followup, he seems to have caught on that it's linkspamming and is taking a break. We're going to have to go over the value of said links on each page, but frankly if they belong anywhere, batmanytb should be on Batman, and dcuytb should be on the DCU page. Anything else is sketchy, IMO. -- Ipstenu ( talk ⢠contribs) 16:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Wich should be the main image at articles about characters with very long history and subject to many reformulations and redesigns? One with the classic aspect, or one with the current one? Perón 18:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The WikiProject Comics editorial guidelines don't express a preference as far as the age of the image. It could be contemporary or it could be classic. That gives some leeway, which I think is a good thing. However, the guidelines do suggest that the image should be the most easily identifiable as the character. It uses the example of Spider-Man in the red-and-blue outfit. I would be wary of using a picture of a very recent costume change. Often these changes get reverted back to something close to the original (c.f., Aquaman's blue outfit and the Red Superman/Blue Superman). For Dazzler in particular, I tend to think of her in the disco outfit. Of course, that's probably a function of my age more than anything else. -- GentlemanGhost 17:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Remember User:Batman Fan, a.k.a. User:Creepy Crawler, a.k.a. User:EJBanks, a.k.a. User:BarackObamaFan, a.k.a. User:Fatone411, a.k.a. a bunch of other stuff? In addition to occasionally vandalizing articles and creating a few outright hoaxes, this person persistently creates articles and categories about comics (especially Spider-Man movies and games), actors, and other things -- articles and categories that are poorly written, awkwardly worded, redundant to other articles, and incorrectly capitalized. [4] The newest example is Category:Comic_Book_Villain_Portrayers. I've made a checkuser request for this guy's new sockpuppet ( User:TheJediCouncil) [5], but I'm about to have to leave this character alone for a while or it's just going to come across as me persecuting the pest. Could someone else please take a look at what this person is up to? Doczilla 07:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Back to a project that I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. Soemone else split of the main list by alphabet, which, I guess, obligates me to go through with it. I finally found some time to begin converting my big list to Wiki format. I just made a big edit to the "A" section. The result is a lot of dead links, and links to entries for things with the same names as DC characters. There is more fixing to be done than I am able to do by myself. Also, there are probably many characters on this list that are so minor that they should probably be de-linked. I also tried to create links to the creators of the various characters, many of which will also be dead links.
My list was compiled from some other lists, and so inherits some non-Wikipedia naming conventions like roman numeral names for legacy characters, and the list also has some duplicate names that need to be eliminated.
I have only done the A's, because it's a lot of work, and I want to see how everything works out on a portion of the list before tackling the whole thing.
So right now the page is pretty rough, and could use some colaborative fixing.-- Drvanthorp 16:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the page is looking great : )
Due to length (and clarity?) reasons, what you all think of splitting off List of DC Comics organizations (and related A-Z). And leaving List of DC Comics characters (and related A-Z) for just the individual characters/personages? - jc37 01:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Nzkpzq ( talk · contribs) is adding multiple aol links in several articles. The point is: I just can't see the content in any of them. All of them seem to be dead links. Is it just me? â Lesfer (t/ c/ @) 12:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
User:Basique has just created the cat Category:DC Comics mutates which he is filling with all human DC characters with inherent powers, including characters that could be termed "mutants", born with powers and/or abilities outside the human norm.
While I can understand the rational, it seems an odd scheme to be forcing as a blanket term: Naiad isn't a fundamental force of nature, she's a mutate... Jericho isn't a mutant, as stated in the stories, he's a mutate... Lilith isn't a psychic, she's a mutate... and so on.
There is also that Basique is adding both the DC cat and its parent to all the articles, which is just plain clutter.
- J Greb 17:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick suggestion, could that article be improved slightly. I know him personally, my family are good friends with him, so if there is anything you would like to know that isn't to personal then I would be more than willing to ask. Also he has told me how 2000AD actually screwed him out of a lot of moeny he was owed for Rogue Trooper, and have hardly paid him any money for his part in making the series and writing it. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.196.45 ( talk • contribs) 21:30, 6 June 2007
With this article, I think some of it should be split maybe. Just thought I'd see what the consensus should be regarding this. Also, can Malibu Comics characters have a Marvel Comics category since they are technically "owned" by Marvel but I don't think any have appeared since the company was bought out. RIANZ 23:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I know this has likely been asked before, so I'll understand if someone just points me to an archived thread, but...
What is the general rule with regard to watermarked images? Do they get yanked or left?
- J Greb 06:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Bringing this here since the relevant talk page has next to nil traffic...
There is a section being added by 24.164.136.207 that lists the character related to the Teen Titans that have appeared in the various animated shows lumped together as the DCAU, but that have never operated as a team or been on screen collectively.
I've been removing it since, at a stretch (and it's a looong stretch), it's trivia. Otherwise it's irrelevant to the list as structured.
- J Greb 17:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The main image on this page is the cover to an issue of Secret Wars II where his clothes are not visible and the lighting and pose makes him look green with red glowing eyes. Someone who saw this picture and didn't know what he looks like would get a very wrong idea. I think this needs to be fixed. Ken Arromdee 18:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello all. It would appear that the bot which provides updates on article assessments has stopped. The last update was June 4. It's not just for this project, either. WikiProject Food and drink is also affected. Anybody know what's going on? -- GentlemanGhost 16:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A new user, Tman930 ( talk · contribs) has been spamming the link comicartcommunity.com to several comic artists' articles. Given the similarity to the account name to that of an indefinitely blocked user, I thought I'd better put a note here. -- GentlemanGhost 17:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we still use Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/wanted? It seems redundant to have this page, the task template, and the comics section of the requested articles page. -- GentlemanGhost 10:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Due similar content disputes on several comics-related pages (and a myriad of talk page threads strewn across many article and user talk pages), I've started a general RfC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Request for comment/Asgardian. Please add your statements and/or comments there. - jc37 13:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking at Alex Ross and wondering... is that gallery a FUR-vio?
I look at it and think that it really isn't what images with a FUR are supposed to be used for since it feels like more decoration than "reasonable examples of his work".
- J Greb 05:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
On Shi (comic book) an editor keeps removing the formatting. I have reverted twice and left a number of message on their talk page as I've reached the edge of 3R (they may have stepped over). Can someone else take a look? ( Emperor 01:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC))
I just noticed, there's a Shi (comic book) article and a Shi (comics) article. *slaps forehead* I guess a merge/redirect is in order. -- GentlemanGhost 04:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
With what's being said about many of these articles on the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics/Notice_Board#Merging_Alternate_Characters (which I didn't know existed until about a week ago ha!) I just don't really agree, especially since it's only the Marvel characters being hit. I do see where the "merger person" is coming from but with some of the articles the merge will be unnessary. Yes, merging alternate characters into the mainstream's profile because the wikipedia isn't a fansite blah blah blah, but some alternate are notable enough to have their own article. Really i know that merge will win but in all fairness, shouldn't DC characters be merged as well? Why is X-Man excluded? Technically clones of characters should be merged as well like Superboy Prime and Ben Reilly? I just needed to moan. RIANZ 00:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I voiced some concerns about this on the talk page but nothing much came of it. I have proposed a better solution might be moving it to a more general "Indonesian comics" entry: Talk:Maqita#Term.3F I obviously need some input on that but also I see they are known as "komiks" but we already have an entry komiks on Filipino comics. So it suggests to me we may also need to consider moving that to "Filipino comics" or even "Filipino komiks" (and using komiks as a disambiguation page - there is also Komiks (TV series). The Czech word for comics may also be komiks [9]) - if the latter perhaps we need "Indonesian komiks"? So although a smaller issue there are slightly broader questions raised about the naming of entries. We have manga, manhua and manhwa on the assumption that "manga" == "Japanese comics" (ditto for Chinese and Korean), which doesn't seem unreasonable (note maqita is a more recent word just for Indonesian manga), but they are fairly widespread words used in English but I'd not want to push that precedent too far. So I'd suggest the better terms are "Indonesian comics" and "Filipino comics" but I wanted to check before setting the wheels in motion. Thoughts? ( Emperor 17:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC))
...and I'm not sure what Wiki's policy on it is.
Specifically it's Titans of Justice. Looking at it, it's a recently created (June 3) article dedicated to a fanfic hosted at www.clik.to/JLU.
My gut reaction is that it doesn't hit the "notability" threshold, and that it may just be a "hey look at this sort-of-MUSH" article.
Has anyone else run across anything like this? And is this something that there are over-all guidelines related to?
Thanks - J Greb 08:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've just finished a major revamp of Jason Todd (diff here) and I was wondering if anyone could track down any of the major news articles that reported on the character's death in 1988. The back of the A Death in the Family trade lists quotes from Time, Newsweek, Reuters, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and The Boston Rock. I would also like to request someone help fill out the issue citations a la the "Cite Comics" template so they list writers, authors, and dates of publication. Thanks. WesleyDodds 10:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The discussion on the Category:Superheroes by race and its subcats closed with no consensus [10] but I am concerned about the area. My digging around the policies following my initial comments there and brought up this: Overcategorization by ethnicity:
"Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. You should be able to write a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) for the category."
So the sub cats fundamentally fail the guidelines. Given issues involing retconning and the problems of assigning race to fictional characters (especially in comics where it might be implied visually not stated outright). I'm not sure what needs doing but something has to be done. Whether that is kicking it around here and reaching some kind of consensus or working the entries up from lists to full articles. If it just goes up for deletion/renaming/listifying without something being done then I suspect it will come down to no consensus again but without addressing the guideline violations it should really go back. Thoughts? ( Emperor 20:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC))
I'm kinda already expecting this to devolve into conflict, so I'd like you guys to look in at Tabitha Smith and Talk: Tabitha Smith. User:Amsterdamx is pretty much ignoring guidelines in favour of a more fansite style of writing. If you guys could step in and give your opinions, that'd be great. Kusonaga 16:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking into this I found something that is a bit worrying... well more than a bit. The image Boomboomblog.jpg is sitting in commons space with a {{ Copyrighted free use}} tag and nothing else.
I find this very suspect since the image is an internal panel and I would think that there would need to be something, a link or verbiage, laying out that Marvel actually signed off on this.
- J Greb 19:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Am I to understand that the Wikipedia Comic Project guidelines for images are stated in terms of Pixels Per Inch? If an image were taken from a movie poster, or from a postage stamp, at 72ppi, it would be way outside the limits of what most people would consider worthwhile on a web site. Maybe this specification should be reviewed.-- Drvanthorp 02:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm interested on working on an article about a comics character with multiple secret identities in order to bring it to at least GA status, which would also serve as an exemplar for the structure of similar multiple-incarnation character articles. I'm thinking either Robin (comics) or Flash (comics) (although I'm leaning towards the Flash because there are far more sources available on Robin, meaning GA or FA-level version of that would have a lot of material that would not be available for less-notable characters). Anyone interested in helping out? WesleyDodds 07:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Now, this is not a forum, a chatroom, a social scene, or any such thing. This is where we talk about work for WikiProject Comics. This talk page shouldn't get cluttered with people asking, several times throughout the year, things like, "Hey, are any of you gonna be at that comic book convention in (fill in the place) next month?" And yet, information like that could be helpful. It might be useful for some WPC contributors to meet each other in person. So suppose I'm attending Comic-Con International in San Diego next month as an academic professional presenting a paper at Comic-Con's Comic Arts Conference. Just suppose. What would be the best way to find out if other WPC contributors will be there? Doczilla 07:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
This got speedily deleted and I think it is worthy getting it back up and running but I want to make sure we have the notability angle fully covered so I have started assmbling material here that should help. If you run across anything (or have any other ideas or input) then drop a note in. ( Emperor 19:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC))
Is this worth an article? A one time team (for an issue or so, I'm not completely sure). A mention of them on villain lists seems like the best route to go. RobJ1981 19:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it just barely hits the max of what's 'enough' information for an article. Notability may be in question though. There's enough info for a decent sized entry on a villain list page. Which page were you thinking of putting them on? -- Ipstenu ( talk • contribs) 13:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Could some of you peek at Hercules (Marvel Comics) today? An anonymous user whose previous edits each appear to have been vandalism insists on changing Hercules from a god to a demigod even though Marvel Comics primarily calls him a demigod. Since I undid anon's edit first, even though I wasn't reverting to a version I'd written myself, I started the reverts and I've quickly had three this morning. Thanks. Doczilla 10:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there any objection to adding this imprint to the list? Several comics where printed under it, including Ren & Stimpy and Earthworm Jim. While we're at it, how does everyone feel about an article? -- Jelly Soup 05:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
This WikiProject had a redirect of the form WikiProject Foo. These are routinely deleted per the self reference policy. You should choose a redirect of the form WP:Foo instead. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 15:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what do with this image, as the uploader specifies it as being an original work of his, even though it obviously isn't. I'm not sure how to get this deleted (my vote, considering the design of Ultimate Madrox is practically the same to 616 Madrox) or changed, since well, it doesn't have proper licensing and lacks a fair use rationale. Kusonaga 20:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
The exemplars are causing way too much grief across the project. I'd like to propose we deprecate them and simply rely on the manual of style from now on. Hiding Talk 12:13, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Something that need to be dealt with. I recently found a Wikipedia article about AC Comics Scarlet Scorpion, and found some information that didn't ring true to me, so I posted questions to the Femforce Femformce Message Board, and got a reply from the character's creator, Bill Black:
And Mr. Black also made an edit to the Scarlet Scorpion wikipedia entry:
Now I know that some people might say that some forbidden thing called "original research" has occured here, and that this edit must be undone, and the information contained banished from Wikipedia forever, but I say that this is about as good a source as you could find. Also, Mr. Black's edit contains info about the history of the Scorpion, Sentinels of Justice, AC Comics, and Charlton Comics that I have never read anywhere before, and is at odds with what the Wikipedia entries say. How do I properly incorporate and source this information?-- Drvanthorp 16:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Bill Black regularly posts to the FemForce message board, which acts as his de-facto blog, and he posted most of this same information there, so that might be where you could link to. Some of the information that Black has contradicted is not well-sourced anyway, so I don't think that revising this information based on this sourcing would be too controversal.-- Drvanthorp 17:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
It's at User:Deckiller/Notability (fiction), with discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Rewrite_proposed. I figure this could have implications for editors who contribute to articles within the scope of this project, and I think in all fairness, it's only right all people have a fair chance of getting their voice heard. Hiding Talk 22:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, this doesn't really change notability for the works itself; it is mostly geared toward the endless subarticles. I'm anti-deletionist, and I've been attempting to forge this as a way to prevent all the AfDs while still providing a solution to the overbalance of in-universe perspective (Wikia/other Wikis/merging). Anyway, I'll be on semi-Wikibreak for the next while, so I might not be around much to discuss. — Deckill er 21:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem in there...
It's a matter of how it's applied.
An editor, any editor, that goes through making changes to articles to create a consistency without something (consensus, guideline, or policy for brevity I'm going to limp them together as "principles") to fall back on is more or less spitting into the wind. These type changes are as valid, or invalid, as any other like edits.
Once a principle is in place, it can be used to justify changes. The scope of the principle determines how far it can be applied. A principle, in and of itself, is not "toothless", it is the desire of editors and admins to enforce it or not that is in question. That is a separate, tricky, issue due to the guideline mandates to be bold and IAR.
Lastly, if an editor (general usage) wants to go about bringing articles in line with a principle, then there are a few niceties that should be kept in mind:
- J Greb 06:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm a bit slow this week, but I've read through the entire proposal. For WP:CMC obviously the main issue would be our great many articles on comics characters with limited exposure and/or those that have never headlined their own title. If I understand the proposal correctly, it would encourage articles on "minor" comics characters to be merged into a single article (e.g. "Minor Marvel Superheroes", "Other DC Supervillains" or what have you).
Obviously this would (or could) significantly impact scores of our articles which would certainly be a shame in many cases. That said, I can't genuinely dispute the basic argument that underlies notability standards, specifically that wikipedia editors need to provide citation, reliable sources and verification of all declarative sentences. Is it really that awful a concept to be held to the Pokémon test? Each Pokémon has its own article and editors have successfully defended them from notability based AfD arguments because editors took the time to methodically provide as much citation as possible (e.g. Eevee or Vigoroth). A number of minor Pokémon characters did indeed get merged into attractive and detailed group articles without any loss that I know of, and without undue angst on the part of that project's editors.
To put it another way, would it really be that awful if we lost our articles on Vector, Vapor, X-Ray and Ironclad when we already have an article on the U-Foes? - Markeer 13:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
This stub type's oversized again, so I've re-opened the issue of how to split it up, here. I suspect most of this territory was covered before, but just in case anyone has any further thoughts... Alai 05:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I've been noticing with disturbing frequency that very few images are given a fair use rationale. In fact, whenever I see an image in a comic article, I presume that it requires a fair use rationale and does not have one; it is left to me to try to supply one as best I can. Unfortunately, I am almost never wrong. Am I the only one who tries to add fair use rationales to images? Even images of critical importance almost never have fair use rationales until I add them. I can do my part, but I would rather not be alone in this. -- Lilwik 01:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't, I am under the belief that ANY comic image is good, if it is in a comic, which is what is stated in the licensing tag, then that is all the rational we need. Phoenix741 01:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I just nominated this article for deletion. I think it should go, but I'm letting people know because its only fair to give anyone who would disagree with me all the chances they can to state their case. :) Stephen Day 23:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This guy SHOULD be mentioned somewhere, but not his own article. Thanks for the heads up.
Phoenix741 23:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Speculation is continually added to this page about a possible movie role. If someone could keep an eye on it (as I haven't seen S3 yet so I don't want to get anymore spoiled) and revert any "Some fans believe Carnage..." or so forth I'd appreciate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CyberGhostface ( talk • contribs) 00:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Is the bot that keeps track of the assessment tag additions and changes stalled again? It looks like that portion of the page hasn't been updated since the 4th.
- J Greb 19:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
When Category:Robin (comics) showed up on the Dick Grayson article, I got curious and did a little looking...
This, relatively, long-standing editor has created some interesting cats (and this just looking back 2 weeks...) including (relevant to this project at least):
I just wanted to get the projects 2¢ before throwing these into a CfD... Are any of these worthwhile and I'm missing it?
- J Greb 08:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
No I think we should get rid of them all.
Phoenix741 14:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
As useful as this list is... it just seems like a regurgitation of Decimation (comics). Should it be deleted? I'm not quite sure to be honest. StarSpangledKiwi 09:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find some information for
my work on the
Jason Voorhees article. I'm trying to locate verifiable evidence if the existence of a few comics. One is the Jack Kirby "Satan's Six" #4, written in 1993. The other is a 3 issue comic, written by Nancy Collins in 1995, "Jason vs. Leatherface". I can only find ebay sales for this, and these are not good enough since the pages will expire after time. Could someone help me find evidence of the comics existence, as I want to protect against people challenging their existence. I was originally using "fridaythe13thfilms.com" as a source, but the site is not debunk, so I have to find something else.
BIGNOLE
(Contact me) 16:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a broader signifier we can use in Infoboxes to replace "Homeworld". As seen here some people seem to have a problems with it being used to signify other points of origin. -- Basique 19:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has been nominated for deletion. Stephen Day 01:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Can we just get rid of most of these? I know they exist for just about every Marvel "Ultimate" title (and I'm sure there is more). They fall under fancruft and plot problems in my opinion. I put Ultimate Spider-Man (story arcs) in AFD, as a start to end some of this nonsense. It was nominated in the past, but many people were for merging as well (and I don't see the keep outcome as accurate, when it could've been no consensus probably). RobJ1981 20:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I think we should merge them all, like what is done on Ultimate Spider-man, it seems to work real well. Phoenix741 01:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I've proposed on the individual pages that we move them to "List of (comic name) story arcs." As structured lists, they could be both informative and conform with Wikipedia policies. Some of them would need to be reworked a bit, but not too much, really. It would basically be the same as the lists of telelvision episodes or other serial fiction. Support? Oppose? - Chunky Rice 17:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone have a look at the Liam Sharp entry? There has been quite a bit of "vandalism" suggesting the picture isn't Sharp. It certainly doesn't look like the one that was removed (see my comments on the talk page) and the source link doesn't seem to contain the image (that I could find). I am suspicious someone has uploaded a picture of someone else when the previous image was deleted. ( Emperor 00:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
Does this really need its own article?
Crisis (DC Comics)
And isn't this crystal balling?
Final Crisis It's just an unexplained teaser.
Wryspy 00:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether Pines Comics is notable enough for an own article. I would appreciate an expert opinion. For details, see the article's talk page. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! -- B. Wolterding 07:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Could someone look at Dustland? It's weird. It largely talks about controversies and conspiracy theories (with no sources) revolving around the site possibly being used for viral marketing and that it was taken down on March 10th leaving a Dustland splash page - the entry itself was started on 15th March suggesting that the two are linked. Equally there is nothing but Wikipedia as a google result [15] except for this one page [16]. It could be some kind of meta-fictional thing or ARG or something viral or a tiny comic no one has ever heard about. Was there another name? has anyone here heard of it? There is so much periperhal detail I do wonder if something is up and it is odd to find nothing online even about the smallest title. ( Emperor 02:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
Any thoughts on this spate of cats added to Category:Ultimate Marvel:
and
The "teams" seems to be a place-holder gathering superhero and villain teams. The others are collecting mostly articles which have a section on the Ultimate U's version of the article's topic.
- J Greb 17:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone else seen this page: Marvel Team-Up It screams of listcruft in my opinion. Each main character/characters of every issue is listed. While the series is about characters teaming, I don't see why we have to list all that information here. It might be useful to some, but frankly I feel it's listcruft. Then there is List of What If issues. Each issue title is listed. I certainly feel that's listcruft as well. It's a special series with official titles for each comic issue, but I certainly don't see how it's encyclopedic for Wikipedia. Suitable for a comic wiki: yes, but not here. What does everyone else think? RobJ1981 06:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I say keep both. They are important to the whole like idea of the article. And I really dont think it is list-cruft, I think it is very informative. Phoenix741 16:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The big tables are overkill, but the actual info has a place, I think. -- Jamdav86 08:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I think it's worth exploring the issue once again. The exemplars are heavily at odds with WP:NOT and WP:WAF, namely that they encourage large tracts of plot summary and an in-universe style. I'd like to merge them into the editorial guidance and look at approaching the issues in a similar manner to other WikiProjects. Mostly, the aim is to write an encyclopedia, so we want to be encouraging people to work articles up to WP:GA and WP:FA status. Some good articles to look at include Anarky, Silver Surfer and Storm (Marvel Comics). Featured articles include Superman and Batman. What we need to be looking at is getting articles up to those sort of standards. Articles which are on the way include Captain America. Another issue that needs to be looked at is when to split other versions off into articles. My own feeling is that this should be done when an encyclopedic treatment can be written. Looking at the message above, it looks like there is now a notability WikiProject, which could cause problems give the identification of notability as meaning coverage in third party sources, so we've got to look at when we do split out.
Other projects guidance:
So, to solve issues over articles becoming too plot heavy and to address the in universe style, and to make sure that articles are written with an encyclopedic tone, I'd like to propose we consider offering the following guidance:
Also, we may need to look at merging and listifying in certain areas given proposals at WP:FICT. It might be worth generating some discussion of the approach taken in turning List of Final Fantasy VIII characters into Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. Appreciate thoughts. Hiding Talk 14:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to briefly summarise the origin and superpowers in the lead section? Some articles do this already, but I think it should be standard. Thoughts?-- Jamdav86 16:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The more we specify, the easer it is for less experienced editors to change pages. The exemplars should, I think, be inspiring to the editing of pages, not guidelines restricting editors. -- Jamdav86 18:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Captain_America&diff=146795192&oldid=146794666
I have reverted this like 5 times and told him to stop, but he wont. Phoenix741 17:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Whoever maintains the Thunderbolts page might want to go rescue their images before they are deleted. The Sfan00 IMG bot has just finished an untethered deletion tagging rampage through quite a few Project pages. -- Basique 12:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
damn, it looks like he got ALL of them. If I get time I might fix a few, then again I still think fair use is BS so what ever. Phoenix741 14:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone else look over the overview section of the Jamie Delano entry. I have done various cleanups (as have other project members) but the overview has remained largely untouched. It is odd: It was dropped in fully formed when the page was created [19], it is well written, it seems more like you'd imagine from a non-neutral biography (from the author or their publisher) and makes quite a few claims that are either opinion or difficult to source. I removed the most obvious example: "One of Vertigo's most prolific, most crucial but, in the opinion of many, too often overlooked creators. Some would even argue that only Alan Moore's own influence was greater." and flagged some more but I suspect the main body of the text needs work but as it is tightly written I suspect most editors have been loath to jump in (I know I have ;) ). ( Emperor 15:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC))
I just came along this while looking through an X-Men category. It was in AFD months ago (here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uncanny X-men 094): with no consensus result. I personally feel articles on one certain comic book issue aren't acceptable for Wikipedia. RobJ1981 12:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I've made a big update to this page, incorporating the b's from my own list. I'm sorry that it is taking me so long; I'll propably be through the alphabet in about five years. I'll try to make this contributions more quickly, but I don't have much free time.
The list has been modified to have sortable columns containing publication and creator information about the characters. Might have a few things that need fixed; many dead links for one, and also character versions using the roman numeral convention not used on Wikipedia.-- Drvanthorp 17:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Should this even be here? Cause I can see this as an excuse as a way to start up ALOT more wikiprojects(spider-man, Marvel, DC, Batman) and so on. And honestly, if they wanted to wrok on superman type articles, then join this project and only work on super man type articles. 8-/ Phoenix741 17:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
)
Here is what I am thinking, feel free to add to this List:
Phoenix741 22:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok sounds good. Just post link when everything is created, so we can give our support. Phoenix741 23:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Do you want me add something to the superman and Batman project so they can give the support and Merge. Phoenix741 00:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I was going to add some more information to Special Executive but the character history is a bit difficult to address so I just wanted to get some input as I might have to rewrite it and didn't want to jump in without first opening it up to discussion. My main concern is that it violates WP:WAF, especially the in-universe issues. It is written as a history (note the whole thing was dropped in by the first editor and hasn't changed much since) but the team was introduced and then Moore filled in the background later. Given that time travel is also involved, some of their history is only revealed/happens mcuh later (for example Technet don't crop up until after the Doctor Who run and initial Captain Britain story arc). So, the appearances have been re-arranged into order for the history as given there. I suspect this is an issue and would like to slice it up and put it back into the order information was presented. This might get a little tricky and I wanted to get thoughts on this, which might reflect on the bigger issue of fictional character biographies vs publication histories (although WP:WAF would suggest they should probably be quite similar). Thoughts? ( Emperor 17:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC))
Not really, but looks really close. http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1143#cave Thanks, CarpD, 8/2/07.
cool yes, should it be in wikipedia, most likly not. 8-/ Phoenix741 11:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Back to this popular topic [22] [23]. One of mine got tagged up and I need to get my ass in gear on this (I'll tag it and then throw it in here for people to have a look at it and see if it is OK). Also the machine is moving forward again - the main Garth Ennis image got deleted which is a pain. The previous one was a good one but a bit grainy, can anyone provide one? Presumably a free one.
Anything else in need of urgent fixing? ( Emperor 20:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC))
I've done several more. I'm not organized about it, it's not a chore, I just can't resist adding a fair use rationale whenever I come to an article with an important image. I think of how useless the article would be without the image, as is the case with most comic book articles, and then I just have to add the obvious justification for the existence of the image. Please, just think of how important the images are for all of your favorite articles and take a moment to add a fair use rationale, even if the image hasn't be marked for deletion yet. -- Lilwik 05:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I just saw one image get speedily deleted on FUR grounds [24] - was this something specific to the image or a new trend? If there'd been an alert that there was a problem I could have looked into fixing it and if widespread could get to be more of a pain. ( Emperor 18:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC))
Seems a new robot has started and it is moving at such a pace I don't think it is possible to keep up: Check it out. I am actually unsure if I can even list the ones it has tagged on my watchlist. I'll give it a shot - if anyone thinks it is important then tag it asap as things are gettin rapidly deleted too (I've lost a number of images and spotted others that seem to have been speedied without provisional tagging) - these are just from my watchlist over the last 3 days:
I suspect at least half the images within our remit could go to the wall quite quickly and some of those are the leading images on main articles (also note some might have been addressed - feel free to strike through anything that is done). I'm behind on tagging images I've uploaded and have lost a few so am not doing well. ( Emperor 14:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC))
I was coming here to post a notice about the contemptible bot-tagging, but it looks like you guys are already aware of it. Something approaching 100 images that I had uploaded over a span of years were tagged within a day, nearly all of which were clearly acceptable under current guidelines had anyone actually looked; simply no one had gone through the chore of posting the "fair use rationale," which is of course little more than longer boilerplate than the fair use tags with little variation. I fixed most of them (as if I didn't have anything better to do tonight), many of which are listed above. But honestly, this is one of the reasons why I don't spend much time on here any longer. The mindlessly authoritarian hijacking of the fair use image process has been wasteful and indiscriminately implemented. And that a bot is being set loose to tag images for deletion is really a contemptible waste of time and effort, as innumerable images that are legally sound, and comply with the substance of Wikipedia policy, will be deleted simply because no one happened to be watching or have the time to take care of pasting in the new boilerplate in the few days in between the bot-tagging and bot-deletion, and will just have to be uploaded again later on by someone else because the articles need them. Though honestly I haven't seen much more discriminating judgment used by non-bot image taggers. Postdlf 04:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
So who do we need to talk to in order to fix this problem? Phoenix741 17:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
ok........(I just decided to ignore Lilwik) anyway we should get the time limit longer, I mean untill the madness stops it should go back to 7 days, but until then mabey we could get it to 2 weeks to give us time, also we should find a way to make it a policy to get it on the ARTICLE'S talk page and not just the uploaders, I think that will help alot. Phoenix741 23:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
There are now a rather large number of proposed sub-projects proposed with would deal in a more concentrated way with specific parts of the comics field. If you would be interested in any of them, please indicate as much in the "Interested Wikipedians" section of the appropriate proposal below:
Thank you for your attention. John Carter 23:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
do we put our name in if we want it to exist, or if we want to be a part of it? Phoenix741 23:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The start of Adam Warlock states "Adam Warlock, also known as Him, is a fictional character who originated in comic books published by Marvel Comics, which owns all trademarks and copyrights pertaining to the character." Is this overkill (hat can be removed?) or do we have to be a bit careful running fast and loose with various companies trademarked terms? ( Emperor 17:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC))
This is filled with tags. I was wondering if he was notable or not? If not: a prod would work in my view. RobJ1981 16:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone seen this lately? It's just becoming larger and larger: and frankly I don't see why people feel the need for it to be a complete guide to enemies. Look here for what I'm talking about: List_of_Spider-Man_enemies#Complete_list_of_enemies. A list being about "completeness" makes the list poor in my view. There is also: List_of_Spider-Man_enemies#Made-For-TV_Villains, which is getting very cluttered as well. RobJ1981 15:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
In the complicated world of comics characters can often work under various names and I am curious about when to create a separate entry.
This came up through Jason Macendale - someone requested the creation of the entry and I saw the other day that it had been created [26]. Checking it out I see he was both Jack O'Lantern (Marvel Comics)#Jack O'Lantern I and Hobgoblin (comics)#Jason Macendale)
The sections were trimmed down and work was started on turning it into a proper entry but the work was undone [27] [28]
Now I'm pretty neutral on the issue of the specific entry (as it appears is the editor who did the bulk of the work - although clearly as it was in or requested list someone thought it worthwhile) but I was wondering if there was a rule of thumb about this kind of thing. I can see the logic in reducing redundancy and also in creating a more coherent character history which would be more useful to the average user. Thoughts? ( Emperor 11:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
Checking out Superpowers (comics) I see it was speedy deleted and I missed it (despite having it on my watchlist). There is enough material around already, e.g. [29], to make a good case for it and I was wondering if an admin could look into bringing it back to life? Seems simpler than adding it to the request list. ( Emperor 14:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
Is Superpower (ability) the page now? - Peregrine Fisher 18:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Tried to add the promo image to it, seems to not want to work 8-/ Phoenix741 (Talk Page) 20:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
JLA/Avengers needs some more editors to keep an eye on it as there is a bit of an edit war going on. I've dropped a note into the talk page but it may take a few more eyes on the page to make sure people don't accidentally get dragged into overstepping the line. ( Emperor 01:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
This page needs to be redone, plain and simple. It's jumbled with member lists and short stubs at every page break. I recommend a similar approach that's in the Justice League and Teen Titans (comics) articles, by creating a separate page detailing every member that's been active, and at what time. It would give the actual content much more of a focus. -- CmdrClow 06:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Currently Image:Captainmarvel.JPG is just attached to the FA archive for Captain Marvel (DC Comics) and BetacommandBot keeps tagging it as "Orphaned".
Is there a way to cover it so that this doesn't happen, or should it drop from the archive?
- J Greb 06:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
The Twelve is an upcoming series (see Chris Weston for all the references I can find) that might need a bit of preliminary work as the team is made from obscure Timely Comics characters and it might be a good idea to have entries ready giving some background to the characters so the limited series can slot in nicely when it gets going. The team is:
Newsarama are doing a 12 Days of the Twelve with character designs and some more information which might prove helpful. I've done a bit of work on The Witness but a lot of the others need expanding, creating or splitting/disambiguating might be needed (on the latter see Captain Wonder and Mister E) so some planning now (even if it is laying out stubs) could avoid mess further down the line. ( Emperor 16:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
CBR have the numbers crunched back to September 2006 [56] and adding sales figures to things that top the sales table (like World War Hulk this month with over $700k of sales) would help tick the box real world impact. Worth pursuing? ( Emperor 02:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC))
Is this OK within the guidelines for WP:FICTION? It has been about for a long while so I'll assume it is but I wanted to check in case it is used as a precendet for something similar. ( Emperor 23:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC))
I'm involved in a somewhat ridiculous debate with an editor over at the Power Pack article, so I thought I'd ask here to see if there was any "official" or common project policy for the issue at hand.
The original text of the Power Pack article stated that the characters and series premiered in August 1984. The information for this was gleaned from the cover date of the first issue. Knowing that at the time, Marvel pushed its cover dates three months ahead, and having concrete proof that the series actually went on sale in May, I changed the text to reflect this. This seems to be the policy on many other comics pages where the issue/event is significant, such as the Fall of the Mutants crossover, which uses the fall 1987 release dates instead of the winter 1988 cover dates. IMHO the debut of the original PP series and the characters, which are still around in various Marvel universes are significant enough to give the correct month the issue went on sale. An editor has jumped in and absolutely insisted that there's no value to this, that only cover dates are acceptable, etc. etc. etc. Nobody else has objected to the change but this one editor, but he seems to be adamant about it.
Is there any official policy that says that release dates can never be used? Would a debut of a series/set of characters be significant enough to warrant their inclusion? Thanks for any help with this issue. DanielEng 10:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It's been a basic critieron when citing any periodical to go with the cover date, be it Time or an academic journal. An instance where I can see the actual release date needing to mentioned is something like the The Death of Superman article, where there was a huge media focus on the event, and where I'm sure the initial printing sold out rather quickly. WesleyDodds 22:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Previously [60] and now someone else is tagging images and it seems like some of them are ones we've dealt with (and quite a few have FURs) so they might need a double checking:
Seems the user is going through Category:Non-free comic images as their recent contributions are all tagging comics-related images. In fact checking through that cat and it seems like a good percentage of them are tagged and I know quite a few of these haven't been flagged on the relevant talk pages. Others haven't been tagged but do lack FURs so it can't be long before they get tagged (some don't appear to have source links or info e.g. Image:Abner (Buffyverse character).jpg). ( Emperor 01:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC))
I am done with fair use........I am going to add the images and such, and I will add where the image comes from in the summary as to respect the copyright. But other than that I am done, I am going to remove that crap they put in my talk page, and well I hope they started to put it in the articles page to, cause I am not dealing with it anymore. They have gone crazy with this stuff(honestly I think they got sued or something and are now trying to save their own asses) and I am just done. GL with this mess. Phoenix741 (Talk Page) 01:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm curious to know what everybody else thinks about this. Basically, a few editors have copied and pasted most of the original content of the powers and abilities section of the Hulk to a blank page and are calling it an article. The article is essentially made up of about three main sections. The first section has all of his physical capabilities divided up into subcategories. The second one is a "Other Signifigant Feats" section providing a list of various displays of the Hulk's powers, and a final section devoted to sort of obscure powers or abilities the character possesses. I wanted to sort of run this by on this page to get the thoughts of other editors, since some probably don't browse the Hulk article very much or at all. The article strikes me as just something created entirely for the benefit of fans of the character. The "other Signifigant Feats" section strikes me as little more than a list that the creators of the article feel displays the character's awesome physical prowess and is also for the benefit of fans. The section itself seems nothing more than POV to me. What makes the feats so signifigant and to whom are they signifigant to? Some that endorse the page have taken a "it'll give readers more in depth information into the character" type of stance. Odin's Beard 15:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought I'd read that categories should be sorted by importance (but can't find the right place - if it exists) and I notice TheOuterLimits has been sorting them alphabetically (e.g. [61]). If that is the right way to sort the categories then best for me to know now so I can make sure I do it right in the future but I'd want to double check first. ( Emperor 19:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC))
I should probably have given you good people a heads-up on this sooner, but better late than never. Fun Home is now being considered at FAC. Early indications are fairly good, but reviewers want more coverage of themes in the work and scholarly commentary. If any members of this project have access to scholarly sources which discuss Fun Home, please feel free to add them to the article. (At the moment, "theme" is combined with "plot" in the article because of the book's non-linear structure, but anyone who wants to separate the two is welcome to try.) — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 06:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The character history section at Wolverine (comics) needs some serious trimming. I started to work on it, but quickly realized: 1. I know a reasonable amount about Wolverine, but not enough to weed through all that prose to determine what should stay and what should go, and 2. Some of the story descriptions are so detailed I don't want to spoil stories for myself I haven't read yet while trying to edit the page. WesleyDodds 10:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
FYI. (I just discovered it.) - jc37 12:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I speedied it per prior CFDs, for Marvel teams and DC teams. Postdlf 18:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, today I found my library's copy of Seduction of the Innocent. I just used it right now to tweak Batman. Anyone else want me to cite anything from it? WesleyDodds 23:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Returning to including sales figures [62] in entries I updated World War Hulk#Reception adding the section and a brief outline of the sales figures. Any thoughts on wording, etc. as I want it to be informative without sounding too press releasey (as with films and box office takes). ( Emperor 16:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
I am a little concerned about this category: Category:Superhero graphic novels which largely contains trade paperbacks and given the sheer number of them it would drown the actual graphic novels like Bighead, making the category useless. In particular its children are shaky. For example with Category:Superman graphic novels I've just removed the cat from Superman: Up, Up and Away! which is purely a story arc (and doesn't even specify a trade collection is available - although I assume there is one) which was the only occupant of this cat and I am unsure how many Superman GNs there are. The Batman one is fuller Category:Batman graphic novels but few of them are graphic novels
One solution might be making a "trade paperbacks" category but I don't really see that being overly useful. Its strikes me that Category:Comic book storylines and Category:Comic book limited series are much more useful ways of classifying such things (as the limited series and important storylines are usually collected into trades). For example Batman: The Killing Joke is in Batman GNs but is actually already classed under one-shots and Batman storylines nd would stretch the definition of a graphic novel to breaking point.
I'd say put up Batman and Superman GNs to be upmerged into the Superhero GNs cat and keep an eye on it. Thoughts? ( Emperor 18:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC))
What do you make of this: Category:Elemental superheroes? I'd struggle to know who counts and who doesn't (we have Swamp Thing mixed in with Iceman and others). I was pondering what would happen if the cat was turned into a list (as has been previous suggested for tricky cats that might need some solid policing to keep focused) - I can't imagine it'd survive unless there was some rock solid definition with references otherwise isn't it just opinion and original research? I may be missing something and this might be a well known class of superherodom I'm not aware of but it caused my concern and I thought I'd throw it open for a second opinion. ( Emperor 23:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
According to WP:FICT, how are characters like Nora Fries or Rocket Racer notable? I have no desire to see their articles deleted, but I would like to hear how this WikiProject interprets Wikipedia's guidelines. ichor}mos quito{ 05:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
While we seem to be on a category flagging thing what about: Category:Comic book terrorists I think we had "comic book mass murderers" a while back and while this isn't the same I do wonder how easy it is to define. Also this one has Magneto (comics) too (I wonder if there is some kind of Magneto Test or The Magneto Rule of Wikipedia Categories). Was he a terrorist or a freedom fighter or just a supervillain? I could possibly see how some would fit but aren't most supervillains terrorists? ( Emperor 23:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
Bit of an odd one but I noticed someone adding all the Elseworlds titles to Category:Comic book alternate universes which didn't seem to be a good idea as there is a more specific child (and I ended up adding the Elseworlds category as a child of it) and then looking through it, I see all the Marvel dimensions are in there too as well as in the Marvel child. Checking I see the same user seems to have added all of those too when they were already in Category:Marvel Comics dimensions. I've asked them to stop but they ploughed on regardless "solving" the problem by deleting the cat from its children (which I've undone) [63]. They also seem to be adding characters [64] and with the edits going in at up to 3 a minute this has rapidly lead to a few dozen articles that need fixing. Is there any easy fix to this? ( Emperor 00:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC))
I'm going to be working on a clean up of Satan in popular culture and was aiming at a section for "Satan in comics" as we have a lot of characters in the Devil role, e.g. Satan (comics) and Lucifer (comics) as well as Mephisto (comics) and would appreciate any input on that. I also stumbled across an interesting book (which I added to the reference section) and if anyone has read that and has any good quotes to flesh things out that'd be really handy too. ( Emperor 13:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
Going to spend a couple of hours in the library tomorrow. Aside from Phantom Lady, anyone else want me to try and find reference for anything? While on the subject, I think there needs to be a greater push by the project to look up reliable and verifiable citations for comics articles; the reference gap between the FA and GA level comics articles and everything else is pretty severe. WesleyDodds 04:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Previously [65] I brought up Chapters in Watchmen and now I see we have Chapters in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. My questions still stands - who does this chime with WP:FICTION as it is nearly all plot? ( Emperor 13:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC))
As they stand they should be deleted. -- Fredrick day 14:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I've listed Chapters in Watchmen for deletion. Feel free to follow suit with the Batman one too. Postdlf 02:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The proposed workgroup at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#DC Comics now has six members signed aboard, which might be enough to activate a task force. Do the rest of you think such should be done, and does anyone know how to adjust the banner accordingly, if such is to be done? John Carter 14:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I've been pointed to this Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images: "Cover art from various items, for identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary)."
Now we use cover art as illustration of various phases in a comic books history. For example: Thunderbolts (comics). However, those sections don't really count as critical commentary - I know we have to tighten up the image use on both those pages but the imposition of that would mean the removal of the lot. If that is the way it should be then so be it but it would have big implications across the entire project so I wanted to get feedback on this before doing anything. ( Emperor 00:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC))
Have you guys seen S.H.I.E.L.D. and Secret Six (comics)? The infoboxes there have a wikilink to the rosters. -- 69.22.254.111 14:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Is there anything that can be done with Category:Homage superheroes? It is workable or should it be deleted? 24.136.11.57 19:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed this. I don't think two articles about the same character are needed. Stephen Day 21:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Talk:Absorbing Man#Fact check needed
It's the Ang Lee film comment yet again. This time it was added with a cite, and chucked out with prejudice.
Thanks - J Greb 09:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a question for those Batman buffs that I don't know the answer to: I always thought that the Joker was the villain in Batman issue #1? Contrary to this however, I saw in this comic book collection called "The Greatest Batman Stories ever told, Vol 2" printed in the 1980s that the villain in Batman issue #1 was Hugo Strange and the monster men. Now I know that Hugo Strange is considered the first ever reoccuring Batman villain, but again, I thought it was the Joker and Catwoman who appeared in Batman issue #1? Is the book wrong or am I incorrect? Can someone explain? Cheers, Spawn Man 04:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
There's currently a proposal to merge Ibn al Xu'ffasch with Damian Wayne, as they are after all alternate versions of each other. A merger would make sense to me, but some WP:COMIC input / contribution is always helpful.~ Zythe Talk to me! 15:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I would like to have the feedback of active wikiproject members on the following. Wikipedia has a number of guidelines on articles about fiction, predominantly WP:FICT and WP:WAF. These guidelines have been rewritten some time ago, but this appears to have been done without substantial input from editors who write about fiction.
Guidelines on Wikipedia are supposed to be a description of common practice. At present, however, these guidelines call for the removal of most material that does not include real-world information, which could be read as to include most articles about fictional characters, locations and concepts, such as those about comics and graphic novels.
This does not reflect actual practice, because Wikipedia has thousands of such articles. Now there's no need for alarm, because to my knowledge, nobody is actually deleting any of this. However, it would be prudent to reword and update the aforementioned guidelines to accurately reflect how, and on which aspects, articles on fiction are written.
Please feel free to update the guidelines as needed, or direct your feedback to their respective talk pages. >Radiant< 10:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
As it stands the article has a big "trivia trap" which is the kind of thing that has got dozens of other "in popular culture" entries deleted (and it is a bottomless pit of almost completely unreferenced material). On the talk page I have suggested a name change and a refocus [69] partly based on Batman franchise media which is a much tighter entry with a well-defined focus (the Superman one feels like a dumping ground for things that don't fit elsewhere). However, there is some discussion about the naming (as it was moved from "Batman in popular culture") [70] so it strikes me that it might be a good idea to come up with a consensus solution to the general area which should help make current and future entries easier to name and manage. Basically I want to avoid "in popular culture/media" and if it isn't 100% correct "franchise media" is certainly getting there. So thoughts? ( Emperor 20:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC))
Interested members of WikiProject Comics may want to weigh in on a wiki creator who has added links to dozens of articles in violation of conflict-of-interest policies and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Examples. Go to: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 August 31. -- Tenebrae 02:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a RFC posted over WP:NAMB and I think the issue (using hatnotes on non-ambiguous articles, at least in the right way) is an important issue for the comics project (as companies often have characters of the same name). I've dropped in my take on the subject on the talk page and summarised my thinking in the RFC [72] ( Emperor 16:17, 2 September 2007 (UTC))
One editor has been working through a list of Marvel characters and adding those not already present. They are hammering them in and while I didn't spot any problems (I do notice previous edits have triggered a spambot) there is just a lot of them. I'd usually check new entries for categories, sources (if not request them), check if they are over disambiguated (some of the are), checking if they are orphaned, etc. but there are just so many I've run out of steam just adding them to the list of newly created articles (and have only got back to late Cs although they are only themselves up to late Gs) and have run into a couple of things I want to fix while they are on my mind. I'll work through them eventually but in the spirit of "many hands make light work" if anyone is interested they can start here (and the two more recent edits). Oh and the Evil Eye one shouldn't have been created and so there is a merge on the go with Evil Eye of Avalon, it may also be worth checking the two Ghost Girls as I don't know them well enough to spot if they are the same/similar.
It also brings up a side question about how minor a minor character can be before they drop off our radar. ( Emperor 20:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC))
Looking at The Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes (and similar like Hellboy: Seed of Destruction) and it strikes me that it'd be handy to have an optional next/previous field in the comic book infobox like they have for TV episodes. Is there anything else that might be needed so they work well with trade paperbacks or would it be worth having an infobox for graphic novels/trade paperbacks as separate from a comic book one as they have different needs? ( Emperor 12:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC))
The Changeling article was recently turned into a redirect to the Morph article. Should this have happened?
There is a small section in the Morph article about the Changeling, but they are still two different characters and there is an awful lot of information that wasn't merged in Morph (comics).
I was going to restore Changeling (Marvel Comics), but decided to ask first before doing so. Stephen Day 23:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Quick question - I was thinking of editing the Changeling article to flesh it out sometime this weekend, but I'm not sure if it would or wouldn't be bad form to do so while the merge discussion is ongoing. Stephen Day 23:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Could I get a few people to have a look over the newly restored criticism section of the Newsarama article? I have done a basic clean-up [74] (moving references to the footnotes and also putting awards in its own section - tagging it onto criticism seemed... inappropriate) but I am also concerned about the sources used. We discussed online reliable sources and while Newsarama and Comic Book Resources (and Silver Bullet Comic Books) were OK one of the lines drawn was over the gossip column sections like Rich Johnston's (even though he is right most of them time - he uses a system to rate the reliability of the stories). Not only are the columns used as a reference, so are Johnston's comments on Newsgroups and while I suppose it helps show his various opinions but I am unsure how far we want to go along that road. Obviously we want to get a balanced article but we also want to avoid giving too much room to what some people might consider online spats between writers on competing sites. Where to draw the line though? ( Emperor 02:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC))
I do believe it is popular (I'd probably be on there if I "got" social networking sites like that) but I see ComicSpace has been deleted twice. I can't see any deletion discussion but I am wondering if it is possibly/worthwhile trying to prove it? Just a thought in passing. ( Emperor 02:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC))
Looks like a few more of the List articles from Category:Lists of fictional characters by superhuman feature or ability are up for AfD, with the suggestion to convert them into cats. It looks like the vicious cycle is going to turn. - J Greb 03:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Looks like all the lists are currently up for AfD, and some of the arguments against echo the reasons the cats went away, such as one ivote to delete commenting (paraphrase slightly) "I can write my name in the snow, so I qualify." with regard to the water manip list.
I'm tempted to boiler plate some thing like...
- J Greb 03:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Having that absorbing man issue again. [78]. - Peregrine Fisher 18:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a new major discussion going on one the talk page above regarding the plot summary content of the articles that deal with fiction, including such things as TV shows, movies, and, yes, comics. Anyone interested is more than encouraged to take part in the discussion there. John Carter 21:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
On the Blade page and on my and John Carter's talk pages, there's been some discussion about non-free images in the superherobox.
At WikiProject Comics: Superhero box images, it says not to use images that wouldn't fall under fair-use guidelines, such as Marvel Handbook images. Promotional art and comic-book covers, under this guideline, are OK.
The page Content Critera Exemptions says non-free content is never to be used in any template. I read this to read it to mean non-free images aren't to be used as part of the template itself — in other words, you couldn't have an image of, say, Spider-Man be a part of the Marvel Comics template, and show up in every Marvel Comics infobox. The covers/promo art aren't part of the template, but inserted into the template.
Thoughts? -- Tenebrae 22:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Betacommand Bot has sprung into action again and these are the ones I've got on my watchlist:
I'll try and keep an eye on the situation. ( Emperor 03:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
I've done some work to fix the Normie Osborn article and incorporate the trivia, but it still needs a 'Powers and abilities' section. I know enough about the character to make the fixes I've been making, but not enough to build that section. If someone here reads Spider-Girl and can add that section, that would be appreciated. Thanks! - Freak104 16:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed something we should all be aware of.
For example, over in Spike Freeman, it used to say that Spike was patterned after Rob Liefeld re: looks. Problem is, the fictional Spike is a psychopathic murdering nutjob. Libel anyone? Certainly seemed that way to me, so I deleted it.
And then today, I was over in Advanced Idea Mechanics and noticed a link to George Clinton, funk musician. Turns out that George Clinton is also a fictional terrorist...yet he was being linked to a real person. I removed the link.
In conclusion, with the sheer number of names associated with villains, we should all be on the lookout. Too much can go wrong. Lots42 12:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I just had to remove all the content of this article, as it was a copyright violation. I'm posting here in the hopes that someone can rewrite the article from scratch. Thanks! Mango juice talk 17:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Per a request at Wikipedia:Requested templates, I have created a template to make it easier to link to the DC Animated Universe Wiki. Please see Template:Dcauw for examples and feel free to replace existing links with this. —dgies t c 22:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Some editors are trying to have this image removed, saying it's not important enough to the characters' histories for inclusion. -- DrBat 12:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm still very uncertain of this. The nature of comics characters is that they go through lots of changes, some that stick and are important, others that are ephemeral. This is a recent change, but it's a change that has only appeared in one panel of one comic. Furthermore, I don't see what the image adds - there's nothing special or unusual about their appearance as ghosts - they're transluscent, like most portrayals of ghosts. So nothing seems to be being added to what's in the text by this image, and I'm unconvinced it's of particular significance as it illustrates one panel of one story, and, at present, no known future appearances of these characters are planned. Phil Sandifer 21:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
This page needs a bit of cleanup, unless there is more than one Hurricane in the Marvel Universe named Albert Potter! 204.153.84.10 14:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm at my witts end and the last Admin to have a run at this has ignored a post to their talk page that the problem has continued after the last round of Blocks.
Nutshell: Asgardian and DrBat which earned a 24 hr block on the 3rd for edit warring the article.
When he came back after the block, Asgardian has repeatedly blanket reverted, with he himself not bothering to participate on the talk page but chiding others to, the article 5 time to his Sept 3 version.
This isn't the only article he's done this to. From Neil's (the last blocking admin) talk here's the list:
These are following the same general practices that had generated escalating blocks from Hiding on June 22, and July 6.
Should this go back to the RfC or are we at a point where we have other options.
- J Greb 06:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the comic articles do not have the proper heading as laid out in Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/exemplars. I have gone through numerous pages and fixed a lot of the headings. Most of the articles I edited are the small/minor articles that not many people see. But some of the big articles also had incorrect headings. My goal was to finish fixing 99% of the articles by myself, but I realize that is unrealistic as I have less and less time to do anything besides work. All articles in the Category:Marvel comics superheroes have been fixed (unless someone changed the headings back after I went through), and I have gotten a start on the Category:Marvel Comics supervillains (I have finished all articles through the letter 'B'). I am not posting because I feel I deserve a barnstar or some self-serving purpose like that, but because "many hands make light work." If everyone made an active effort to find articles that needed fixing (I suggest my method of going line by line through the categories, but any method works), then 99.9% of all comic articles would be fixed in nearly no time at all. Everyone would just have to make sure they follow the template that has been established. I also suggest this as it will help the WikiProject Comics look better, because the comics section of Wikipedia will look better and more cohesive if we fix the headings so that they are consistent across the board. Freak104 19:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
As a heads-up to everybody, I've been going through Category:Non-free comic images scanning for lacking fair use justifications and other problems. I'm trying to go at a reasonable pace through the category so that other people from the project can follow me and add/improve justifications when needed. I'm creating User:Phil Sandifer/Last image looked at with where I am in the list. If you watchlist that, you'll know when I've looked at more images. If I'm going too fast and you guys want more time to sort through things, let me know and I'll take a day or two off. Phil Sandifer 13:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Based on what I've seen in the guidelines for non-free image usage, do we have a solid guideline or consensus on using commissioned artwork depicting characters under copyright and/or trademark, but not commissioned or used by the (c)/TM holder?
I've seen two good examples of this:
I'm not sure if it's good practice to use these at all, and I think it's a really bad idea to use them as primary images for articles.
Thoughts and comments?
- J Greb 02:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) It's not like normal images are hard to come by. May as well be safe and get rid of them. - Peregrine Fisher 17:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just had a discussion on the Wikipedia:Non-free content page with some more knowledgable editors, and it seems that all the images from the Fleischer studios cartoon series of Superman are now considered public domain. Thought you all would want to know. John Carter 18:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There has been a few issues concerning linking to other wikis and I know Tenebrae has been catching some flak over this and I think it'd be best to try and resolve the matter to reduce the amount of work adding/removing links and any bad feeling this might generate. Now I know there have been various secondary issues (like conflicts of interest) but I feel the core of the issue is:
WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided #13 states we should avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."
Which justifies their removal. The problem is that it seems a bit vague. I've had a quick chat with J Greb and feel it is probably deliberately stated like that to allow the use of good quality wikis, while giving editors a guideline they can use to reduce linkspamming.
Of course, this leaves us with the question of what the exceptions to that guideline and if left up to individual editor's opinions it seems to be an invitation to an edit war with no good weighting either for or against a specific wikis inclusion. These seems like A Bad Thing as there are good wikis that would be useful as an external link and this issue will get to be a big one as changes to WP:FICT mean we'll probably be transwiking material to specific wikis and we'd want to be able to provide a link to somewhere with more detailed coverage.
So the solution seems to be that we discuss the various wikis and reach a consensus about the ones that would seem to be useful to the project so we can provide a basic level of approval as an external link (although the link still needs to conform to broader guidelines - if a specific entry doesn't provide anything more than we have hear then that specific link is redundant).
So the wikis causing issues are:
Given recent disputes I have had a chance to check all of those and feel they are all solid and can qualify as potential external links. ( Emperor 15:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC))
(unindent)
A couple of things...
I can see part of Tenebrae's point. The manual of style for Wiki is clear that we aren't supposed to be putting full transcripts of comics or shows in a Wiki article (I know, there are television episode articles with that level of detail and we are having constant arguments on this point with the story arc articles). But that threshold varies with other sites. As it stands, the three wikia we're talking about, especially with the pages involved, do go farther than Wiki, but not to the point of it being blow-by-blow, line-by-line. If it were, or is the links were to archives of fully scanned books and/or rips of full animated episodes, I could see it being shot down immediately. That isn't the case here.
As for the potential of edit warring over the links, that isn't much different than the edit warring over anything else on Wiki. It's a case where AGF should come in. For myself if it's an isolated add, and I don't recognize the editor as having had problems in the past or and annom, I'd let it go unless I know for a fact that the linked page is a problem. If it some thing that I see multiple editors adding a bad page back in, I'd make the link into a note, with an additional explanation as to why the link has been killed. Beyond that, we get into the problem of linkspamming. - J Greb 18:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems like these wikis would be allowed under WP:EL to me. How long has each been around? Probably about as long as wikia, which people seem to think is OK, because of the Jimbo connection. The DC one is wikia's featured wiki right now, kind of like a FA. If an exceptio can't be made for that kind of wiki, which kind can it be made for. The marvel ones main page has been around a couple years, the DC one is a bit younger. Wikis in general aren't that old, so I believe were looking at 2 (don't know DCAU) of the more stable and substantially edited wikis. I believe they do have some copyright issues, but so do we. I would say don't link to any page that has a copyright violation on it. I don't think that would be too hard to police. People are usually reasonable about copy vio stuff. I would say if we can link to any wikia wikis, then we can link to these two. - Peregrine Fisher 06:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Guys, my head's starting to hurt on this a bit.
Tenebrae I need you to clearly state you opinion on this. Right now, the way I'm reading this, it looks like you are equating the "External links" section with sources used to support text in the articles as citations. Am I reading this correctly? - J Greb 08:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
My apologies for my apparently unfortunate phrasing. Let me be more elaborate.
The "no wikis" rule in EL was actually only debated and added by about a half-dozen people, and sought little imput from the wider community. It is a very poor bit of guideline, in that it flies in the face of the whole point of the m:Interwiki map, which is the system that lets us do things like wikilinks to Wiktionary or Meta - or also Wikia, and also is done so that the links don't have a nofollow tag, which amounts to using Wikipedia's considerable heft to actively promote these sites.
So on the one-hand we have a developer-created initiative to make linking to other wikis both easier and more effective, and on the other we have a single line of a guideline that got minimal consideration. Situations like this are why guidelines are explicitly allowed to be broken - the "no wikis" bit of EL really is an eminently ignorable bit of cruft. Especially because Template:FreeContentMeta - a template that creates a sister-project-like box link for other wikis - has survived TfD more recently than that deletion debate took place, indicating a clear lack of consensus for the policy of "don't link to other wikis." Certainly we should be careful about these links, and make sure we are using them in ways that benefit the articles - preferably by pointing to articles that expand on things we are unlikely to cover in our article (like detailed plot summaries). But if there is a clear benefit for doing it, the caution in WP:EL should not be considered a serious problem with doing it. Phil Sandifer 13:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Sigh. The more I read this the more I feel like evoking WP:IGNORE. Seriously, what's the fuss all about? If these wikias have good articles and can provide extra insight that Wiki can't per all its rules and constrictions, then why linger on this rather elusive suggestion of "avoiding links to open wikis". If a page here can benefit from having an EL to another wiki, then add it.
I think we are sidetracking here. The point of this discussion is to decide if any of the aforementioned Wikias should not be linked to, merely because they are open wikis. The only thing that we should be asking is:
If there's no BIG reason to avoid these links then this discussion is pretty superfluous. I don't want to sound harsh, but so far no one provided any reason beyond "WP:EL says we should avoid linking to open wikis" or "it can lead to linkspamming". Lots of things in WP:EL lead to linkspamming.
I agree with Phil Sandifer when he expressed his discontent to point 13. Saying we should avoid links to open wikis is a very obscure and generalized guideline. But I also agree that we shouldn't ignore it only because we don't like it. We can either get back on track with this discussion or go to WP:EL and propose a policy review to remove or clarify that "open wikis bar." -- PicketyFence 21:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
[Reply to PicketyFence 16:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)] You know very well, as I explained to you on your talk page, that after working on dozens on pages I missed two links. I find it curious that you knowingly act as if I did not explain that to you — and, also, that you didn't answer my conflict-of-interest question.
"Don't try to restrict allowed links to circumvent misunderstandings"? We need to do everything we can, as encyclopedia editors, to circumvent misunderstandings. — Tenebrae 16:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Given the fact a consensus seems to be emerging above I thought it worth looking into drawing up an outline for improved guidelines. I see Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/editorial guidelines has a section for wikis that seems inadequate in light of the above. I'd suggest pulling the section on the use of promotional materials under a larger section on dealing with sources and have something on wikis in there with is.
Wikis are not considered suitable for use as reliable sources but may be suitable for use as an external link. However, there are also restrictions on their use:
WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided #13 states we should avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."
To satisfy this guideline we have looked at the various relevant wikis and come to a consensus decision [85] that the following are suitable for use as external links:
Caveats: However, this isn't a green light for indiscriminate linking:
If anyone wants to add (or remove) a wiki from the above list then start a discussion on the Comics Project talk page and reacj a consensus.
So thoughts? That is just a distillation of thoughts and ideas (so I can't claim credit for it ;) J Greb's points in particular were very helpful) but it is all up for discussion. ( Emperor 18:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC))
"If there are no references, to avoid giving the impression that the wiki link is the source, add references as well a wiki link. Otherwise, add a "References" section tagged with {{sources}} as a visual indication that the article is lacking references and supplying them should be a priority for other editors."
-- PicketyFence 15:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
As a side note: Looking at the existing templates, both {{ dcauw}} and {{ DCDP}}, and the recently deleted MDP one, I honestly think it's a bad idea to link directly to the wikia homepages. The DCDP link to the article on the project seems good though. - J Greb 16:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
What do you guys think of these? I've found and removed lots of links to Supermanica for not satisfying the criteria in WP:EL, but I also found a considerable sum of good articles. As for The Smallville Wiki, it seems like a good in-universe external resource for further reading. Most Superman articles have references to this show, just like the DCAU, so I think this could be a good EL for interested readers, and maybe a good way to trim down fancruft here. -- PicketyFence 12:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
All three characters appeared in Nick Fury's Howling Commandos. That series was cancelled after six issues due to it selling really badly and it doesn't seem likely that any will appear again anytime soon. The articles are stubs and what is written there is really all there is to the characters.
I was going to start merge discussions for all three. Should I even bother or should I just change them into redirects? Stephen Day 22:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Please be wary of edits by User:Apostrophe. He is singular of mind and purpose, and is attempting to drastically change many DC related articles with his near- Nazi view of NOR and Fair use. I've encouraged him to work with the Project. -- CmdrClow 23:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Stop me if you've heard this one before, but the Marvel stubs are Officially Oversized again, most of them characters. I've proposed at least that as a fresh stub type, and possibly by sort-of-character, too. Please comment there. Alai 04:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Here: can anyone answer to this question, please? -- Superchilum( talk to me!) 21:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I notice Viltrumite has been PRODed and I notice there is a lot of Invincible (comics) entries: Category:Invincible (comic). They nearly all seem to lack references and I wonder about the need for so many entries on characters who appear in just the one series. Would it be worth floating the idea of a "List of characters in Invincible" article?
This is also related to the section above in which there are a lot of minor character entries. So thoughts? ( Emperor 21:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC))
Don't know if this is the right place to put this, but wanted to let you know I fixed a typo. How it read: Francisco had grown tired f watching criminals who preyed on the innocent. What I changed it to: Francisco had grown tired of watching criminals who preyed on the innocent. 72.79.77.80 02:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
List of government agencies in comics has been tagged as violating copyright but the source (and the actual complaint) are unclear. I've asked for clarification but could do with some extra sets of eyes on this (as it is a serious issue if true and needs resolving asap). ( Emperor 16:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC))
User:Bltpdx edited Peregrine (comics), Blazing Skull, and Frog-Man to imply that they had been killed by the Hulk recently. I tried to look up more info on this online but didn't see anything. BOZ 23:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
This has been tagged for speedy deletion due to copyright violation: Steven Cook. I've explained my reasons for hanging on but would appreciate some extra input on whether that is reasonable or whether it should be speedied. ( Emperor 02:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC))
Noting this dispute, I restored the article and its talk page, but plastered a possible copyvio notice over it. Doing it that way gives at least a week to discuss rather than marking it for speedy deletion. Technically a discussion should also be posted on the copyright problems page (see top of copyvio template on the article), but I'll leave it to those involved to follow through how they best see fit. Cheers, Postdlf 20:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Another image question...
Is there any guidelines about the inclusion of cosplay images? I'm asking since Image:AN Liana K 1.jpg was just added to Power Girl as a free use image.
- J Greb 18:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
(Cross-posted to Talk:Nasty Boys)
Okay, I've just uncovered something really disturbing. On the Nasty Boys article, the names of the Nasty Boys were originally given as:
Those names match the names I had for them in my own private notes (though I unfortunately neglected to record the comic book and issue number they came from), and I believe those names are correct.
Because the Nasty Boys are not exactly A-list characters, their real names are not well-known and seldom ever referenced in the comics.
Now, on September 23, 2006, User:201.239.238.20 made the following edit [87], changing the names to:
Now, User:201.239.238.20 (whose last edit was on December 1, 2006, nearly a year ago) has a history of subtle name vandalism: see, for instance, [88] and [89]. This was discussed on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics/Archive_22#Bogus_names... about a year ago, and he was warned about it on User talk:201.239.238.20, but he apparently never responded. This user has also caused other trouble (mass categorization and mass edits---just check his history---without seeking approval beforehand, and which resulted in controversy; also, it has been suggested [90] that this user is the same user as User:201, a sockpuppet of the permanently banned User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow).
As for these specific changes to the Nasty Boys' names, I have been unable to find any supporting evidence in any canon comics or on the web except for sources that depended on Wikipedia, and on (here's the really worrisome part):
Here's my worry. I think what happened was that this anon user changed the Nasty Boys entry. Then, the writer or writers of this particular entry in The Official Handbook did his research through Wikipedia, and thus put this incorrect non-canon information into print. The existence of this printed Handbook, as well as the continued presense of the information on the Wikipedia article (I just today removed it from the Nasty Boys Wikipedia article, after the information had been on there for a year) has led to this information being copied by other websites and sources of information, resulting in continued and spreading propagation of misinformation.
Now the best case scenario is that the name information added by User:201.239.238.20 is legitimate. Indeed, I hope this is the case, and if anyone can find a canon comic book issue where the Nasty Boys' names are given as such, then that would be great and put my worries to rest. :)
Unfortunately, I fear this is not the case. In that case, ALL of User:201.239.238.20's edits need to be checked one-by-one for subtle vandalism, which is unfortunately extremely time-consuming because he has made literally thousands of edits, doing hundreds of edits in a row on a very rapid basis, almost never using any edit summaries.
Maybe someone who knows how can contact Marvel Comics or The Official Handbook about this and ask for a canon source for the information--and if no source can be found, then a correction should be issued in the next edition of The Handbook.
— Lowellian ( reply) 19:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll also note that on the individual articles for the members of the Nasty Boys, Gorgeous George (comics)'s name was changed [91] by User:Nyssane on September 22; Ramrod (comics)'s name was changed [92] by User:201.239.238.20 on September 29, 2006; Ruckus (comics)'s name was changed [93] by User:Nyssane on September 22, 2006; and Slab (comics)'s name was changed [94] by User:Nyssane on September 23, 2006. Note also that if you view the page histories of Gorgeous George (comics) and Slab (comics), User:Nyssane's edits are, in both cases, exactly sandwiched between User:201.239.238.20's edits.
— Lowellian ( reply) 20:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I just found a couple of primary sources. In both X-Factor vol. 1 #77 (April 1992) and X-Men vol. 2 #15 (December 1992), Slab's name is given as "Kris" (that exact spelling) and he is clearly shown to be Thumbelina's brother; Thumbelina's last name is "Anderson", so Slab is then presumably "Kris Anderson", which is what the article gave BEFORE the anon changed it to "Christopher Anderson", which matches The Official Handbook. — Lowellian ( reply) 21:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the difference between "Kris" and "Christopher" is small---but the difference between "Warren Anderson" and "Michael Suggs" (Hairbag) is large, as is the difference between "Charles Grovemont" and "Patrick Mahony" (Ramrod). Also, where did the names "George Blair" and "Clement Wilson" come from?
Also, The Official Handbook in itself is not canon, with entries also being contributed by independent, non-in-house researchers. It is supposed to be a compilation of information from the comics themselves, which are the only canon. The Official Handbook does issue corrections to previous issues of The Official Handbook from time to time. If there's information that doesn't exist in the comics that mysteriously appears in The Official Handbook, the canonicity is doubtful.
Also, just to complicate things further, I just realized that the anon's edits DON'T quite match The Official Handbook. The Official Handbook gives Hairbag's name as "Shaun Suggs", but the anon gave Hairbag's name as "Michael Suggs" (and both of those entries don't match the original of "Warren Anderson").
— Lowellian ( reply) 22:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I am one of the Marvel Handbook writers, and I wish to correct some misconceptions on this page. See the related Nasty Boys Talk page for a way of corroborating my identity. The Official Handbook is canon - right from the very first version in the 1980s it has been both resource and occasional source, and the mission statement given by Mark Gruenwald all those years ago notes that it can "fill in the gaps" on character backgrounds, and everything in the Handbook goes through a rigorous editorial approval process. "entries also being contributed by independent, non-in-house researchers" - we are commissioned by Marvel to write the Handbooks, we are under their editorial control and are contracted Marvel freelance writers - which means we are "independent, non-in-house" in the same way that the vast majority of those writing the regular comics are. We do issue corrections, yes, because no one is infallible. However that does not make the information as a whole invalid. "If there's information that doesn't exist in the comics that mysteriously appears in The Official Handbook, the canonicity is doubtful." - if a Handbook writer wishes to add new information, such as providing a real name for a character, or explaining how they got from A (where they were last seen) to B (a radically different place where they are next seen), then we try to go to the original writer to ask them to fill in the blank, (and we specifically highlight the information so that both our editors and Tom Brevoort are aware it is new and either ratify it or remove it. Hence the canonicity is not doubtful. It is canon. With specific regards to the Nasty Boys' names, that was new information, editorially approved. I don't mind either way if Wikipedia wishes to include it or not (my reason for writing was to clarify about the Handbooks status overall), but if you feel that its appearing first in a Handbook is a problem, then you will need to edit several other entries to remove information first supplied in a Handbook, such as Bushwacker's full name. With regards to Mammomax being Maximus Jensen, that name was first supplied in a Wizard article by the character's writer; we checked with Marvel, and they confirmed that despite the unusual place where it first appeared, it is considered the character's real name. With regards to the Wikipedia Nasty Boys article however, I do not believe it was one of the Handbook writers who edited it. And for the record, as my final comment, we do not use online sites for our information or research, and we NEVER use Wikipedia. Stuart Vandal, 84.9.65.76 11:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The e-mail address to corroborate this is given here, on Marvel's official site: http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:FAQ I won't give the e-mail here, as that wouldn't prove I was giving a genuine e-mail ratified by Marvel. 84.9.65.76 16:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Before I do a generalized peer review, and definitely before the GA process, I would like to get some feedback from this project. I just recently expanded this page from a paragraph. Tell me what you think.
I would also like it if someone could possibly expand the lead paragraph. I'm horrible at summarizing stuff! -- Ghostexorcist 23:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have made the specified changes. In addition, I have officially opened a peer review on the page and would like to push it to the GA candidate page within the next couple of weeks. -- Ghostexorcist 08:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The section on Jack Monroe consists of a merged Publication History and Fictional Character Background. Doesn't the current format call for a separation of those two items? Would anyone care to champion such a task? 24.136.11.57 04:12, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
There are three articles on small comics studios that seem to be suffering accusation of hype and censorship/revisionism (see the talk pages):
There also seem to be a number of editors who have only edited those entries (and related ones - often to link into those) and some of them appear to have clear connections with one or more of them (including what appears to be some degree of friction between at a couple of them). I'm still trying to tease it all out but as some of the issues also include controversial areas like creator non-payment (Alias) they need watching to make sure one side or the other doesn't try and skew the overview. Might just be a storm in a tea cup but it might need so attention from the Project to make sure there is a steady hand on the tiller. ( Emperor 15:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC))
Could someone with access to the Amalgam book published by DC and Marvel check something for me?
I'm looking for how the indencia boilerplate spells out ownership of the blended characters.
Thenks - J Greb 20:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Could members of this wikiproject work on finding at least one reference for the following comic related articles?
Thanks for your time-- BirgitteSB 20:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into these. It one of those subjects that I have trouble knowing where to find a good reference.-- BirgitteSB 13:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I found some more:
-- BirgitteSB 21:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
FYI: I just discovered how the "Earth-Two" concept came about [95]. Rather obvious now that I think about it. This can be used as a source in a number of articles. WesleyDodds 11:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Definitely some overlap of subject matter, though it (apparently) wasn't intended to be comic book-specific. Postdlf 17:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the bulk of Alterna Comics as it was a straight life from their site (which probably suggests it was done by them but still...) but would appreciate a double check on what I did as it may be I took out too much (I did err on the side of caution) or not enough (I didn't check everything against every page they have just the most obvious examples). I also tagged their only comic for notability: Mr. Puffinopolus by Christopher Petty but din't check it. I did note the page was started and has largely been edited by Pettyproductions which seems to suggest COI issues may arise and the entry needs careful checking. ( Emperor 14:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC))
Not worth creating another section but User talk:70.96.128.8 is a Dark Horse Comics IP and it has been dropping in materila straight from the site and adding non-neutral material to entries like Mike Richardson (publisher) (see talk page for removed material) and has been removing things like the clean-up and advert tags. So one to keep an eye on. ( Emperor 22:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC))
Another one (and also going back to previous topics discussed): DC Database Project. I'm also unsure if it meets WP:WEB. ( Emperor 21:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC))
What's up with these two? They appear to be virtually the same article, and probably need to be largely rewritten or scrapped. 204.153.84.10 14:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll create in my sandbox if people want to work on it - I don't have a lot of time at the moment but it's a start. -- Fredrick day 13:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I noticed the above image was up for deletion. Now I won't claim to know the specifics of this image, but in reading over the page I was wondering: If comic book publications have fallen into the public domain (for whatever reasons) which tag is appropriate? I don't get much involved with images, but I'm sure other editors do. Anyway, thanks in advance for your thoughts. - jc37 12:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 | → | Archive 35 |
I wasn't aware of any past history with this article subject but having created an article (eager to face the challenge of putting up a webcomic article and see if it could prevail over any eventual prodding or AFD) it got speedied as a "Recreation of deleted material". Obviously I didn't and wasn't aware there had ever been one, but it got tagged by a user who a few months ago suggested the namespace salted at ANI. An unknown admin sealed the deal before I knew anything about it, so I don't much feel like the beneficiary of AGF here. Anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Murgh disc. 11:25, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
But as Frederick day suggests, I'll ask the peergroup to advise, and suggest whether the sources make it worthwhile to pursue. If someone with the power to revert the userspace move from User:Murgh/Sore Thumbs could do that, it would be cool. Murgh disc. 19:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
so (unless this is terribly inappropriate), if peers with a moment to spare could share a weighed opinion in an in-house AFD mock-up, to previsualize deletion review response, it would be very helpful and give an idea if it's worth it:
mock nomination: Unreferenced article, no assertion of notability. Previously failed an AFD. Please don't let this turn into WP:ILIKEIT. Does not meet notability (per WP:WEB. Murgh disc. 19:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. Thank you for opinions and advice. From the varied response to the sources, I suppose it won't hurt to sit on it until more convincing sources appear. Murgh disc. 17:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I see no reason for these to be separate categories. You would think that "CrossGen comics" would be a list of all comics / works by CrossGen but instead they are listed under CrossGen titles - this confused me at first. I recommend that they are merged into one category and use that one on each of the pages rather than one or the other. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia so I wanted to get some feedback on this before doing it myself.-- Campbecf 11:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The bots continue to grind through flagging things up as lacking a fair use rationale. I haven't done one (and am busy flagging this up in other projects) so will drop the messages in if anyone wants to address them (we might as well save them now as most woud need reuploading anyway with the FUR attached) if anyone wants to address them: Talk:CrossGen, Talk:Secret City Saga, Talk:Carnet de Voyage, Talk:Cattivik, Talk:Blackheartâ, Talk:Massimo Belardinelli, Talk:Ventriloquist (comics)â, Talk:Avengelyne, Talk:All Star Superman. Although I haven't done one the FYR seems fairly straightforward - is there a general version for the project that we can adapt? ( Emperor 13:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC))
{{Non-free fair use rationale
|Description = A (COVER) scan of INSERT NAME.
|Source = LINK TO IMAGE (OR NAME EXACT SOURCE).
|Portion = The cover of one issue
|Purpose = To demonstrate the COMIC/CHARACTER in question.
|Resolution = Yes. Actual cover is much larger, size is such that sales are unaffected.
|Replaceability = No free alternative available as it is UNDER COPYRIGHT/THE ACTUAL PRODUCT.
|Other_information = IMAGE RELEASED FOR PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES
}}
Feel free to update/add to. We could either produce a couple of versions for different circumstances or one with different bits to delete where applicable. The various statements will tend to be pretty similar but there will obviously need to be specific information added for each one. Other information is optional but worth including if it helps your case - worth noting is that publishers do tend to release covers (of comics and trades) for promotional purposes. Would it help if we fired off an email to various publishers getting a blanket OK to use covers and appropriate scans as long as we didn't abuse it? That would allow us to beef up the "other information" section and make the FURG rock solid. ( Emperor 00:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC))
Sigh. We missed one: Image:Incredible-hulk-20060221015639117.jpg. This was the main image for Hulk (comics). I'm trying to ascertain who tagged it, because whoever it was didn't put a warning on the article's talk page. Presumably, they notified the uploader. Still, I plan to ask them to put a warning on the article next time, since many of the original uploaders are no longer around. -- GentlemanGhost 16:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
A discussion of the mass flagging of the images and the need for temporarily suspending speedy deletion when there is no fair use rationale is taking place at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/FURG. We should definitely keep fixing them as we find them, though. -- GentlemanGhost 19:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
http://batmanytb.com/ has again become a contentious addition to the Batman page. My rational for removing it was two fold. First, User talk:Xphermg made a series of edits to pages from Wonder Woman to Huntress and to Justice Society of America, all adding links to batmanytb or dcuytb. While I feel that the edits were in good faith (that is 'hey look at this cool site!') the sheer number of additions, coupled with his constant reverting without discussion, made me feel this was falling under link-spam, and we maybe should take a step back. I reverted his edits, mentioned this on his talk page, and alerted Doczilla, who I'd noticed was also reverting him. Secondly, as was pointed out on his talk page, and supported by comments by Xphermg, the site is a store, and serves as an Amazon Store Front. This makes adding it a little weird to me. Since this has started to cross over into multiple pages, I thought it best to pull in the discussions here to allow other editors to chime in. I don't think Xphermg means harm, but the volume of links being added, and now the possible spite deletion of other sites that 'have advertisement', is making me Spock the Brow. -- Ipstenu ( talk ⢠contribs) 18:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
As a followup, he seems to have caught on that it's linkspamming and is taking a break. We're going to have to go over the value of said links on each page, but frankly if they belong anywhere, batmanytb should be on Batman, and dcuytb should be on the DCU page. Anything else is sketchy, IMO. -- Ipstenu ( talk ⢠contribs) 16:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Wich should be the main image at articles about characters with very long history and subject to many reformulations and redesigns? One with the classic aspect, or one with the current one? Perón 18:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The WikiProject Comics editorial guidelines don't express a preference as far as the age of the image. It could be contemporary or it could be classic. That gives some leeway, which I think is a good thing. However, the guidelines do suggest that the image should be the most easily identifiable as the character. It uses the example of Spider-Man in the red-and-blue outfit. I would be wary of using a picture of a very recent costume change. Often these changes get reverted back to something close to the original (c.f., Aquaman's blue outfit and the Red Superman/Blue Superman). For Dazzler in particular, I tend to think of her in the disco outfit. Of course, that's probably a function of my age more than anything else. -- GentlemanGhost 17:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Remember User:Batman Fan, a.k.a. User:Creepy Crawler, a.k.a. User:EJBanks, a.k.a. User:BarackObamaFan, a.k.a. User:Fatone411, a.k.a. a bunch of other stuff? In addition to occasionally vandalizing articles and creating a few outright hoaxes, this person persistently creates articles and categories about comics (especially Spider-Man movies and games), actors, and other things -- articles and categories that are poorly written, awkwardly worded, redundant to other articles, and incorrectly capitalized. [4] The newest example is Category:Comic_Book_Villain_Portrayers. I've made a checkuser request for this guy's new sockpuppet ( User:TheJediCouncil) [5], but I'm about to have to leave this character alone for a while or it's just going to come across as me persecuting the pest. Could someone else please take a look at what this person is up to? Doczilla 07:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Back to a project that I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. Soemone else split of the main list by alphabet, which, I guess, obligates me to go through with it. I finally found some time to begin converting my big list to Wiki format. I just made a big edit to the "A" section. The result is a lot of dead links, and links to entries for things with the same names as DC characters. There is more fixing to be done than I am able to do by myself. Also, there are probably many characters on this list that are so minor that they should probably be de-linked. I also tried to create links to the creators of the various characters, many of which will also be dead links.
My list was compiled from some other lists, and so inherits some non-Wikipedia naming conventions like roman numeral names for legacy characters, and the list also has some duplicate names that need to be eliminated.
I have only done the A's, because it's a lot of work, and I want to see how everything works out on a portion of the list before tackling the whole thing.
So right now the page is pretty rough, and could use some colaborative fixing.-- Drvanthorp 16:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the page is looking great : )
Due to length (and clarity?) reasons, what you all think of splitting off List of DC Comics organizations (and related A-Z). And leaving List of DC Comics characters (and related A-Z) for just the individual characters/personages? - jc37 01:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Nzkpzq ( talk · contribs) is adding multiple aol links in several articles. The point is: I just can't see the content in any of them. All of them seem to be dead links. Is it just me? â Lesfer (t/ c/ @) 12:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
User:Basique has just created the cat Category:DC Comics mutates which he is filling with all human DC characters with inherent powers, including characters that could be termed "mutants", born with powers and/or abilities outside the human norm.
While I can understand the rational, it seems an odd scheme to be forcing as a blanket term: Naiad isn't a fundamental force of nature, she's a mutate... Jericho isn't a mutant, as stated in the stories, he's a mutate... Lilith isn't a psychic, she's a mutate... and so on.
There is also that Basique is adding both the DC cat and its parent to all the articles, which is just plain clutter.
- J Greb 17:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick suggestion, could that article be improved slightly. I know him personally, my family are good friends with him, so if there is anything you would like to know that isn't to personal then I would be more than willing to ask. Also he has told me how 2000AD actually screwed him out of a lot of moeny he was owed for Rogue Trooper, and have hardly paid him any money for his part in making the series and writing it. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.196.45 ( talk • contribs) 21:30, 6 June 2007
With this article, I think some of it should be split maybe. Just thought I'd see what the consensus should be regarding this. Also, can Malibu Comics characters have a Marvel Comics category since they are technically "owned" by Marvel but I don't think any have appeared since the company was bought out. RIANZ 23:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I know this has likely been asked before, so I'll understand if someone just points me to an archived thread, but...
What is the general rule with regard to watermarked images? Do they get yanked or left?
- J Greb 06:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Bringing this here since the relevant talk page has next to nil traffic...
There is a section being added by 24.164.136.207 that lists the character related to the Teen Titans that have appeared in the various animated shows lumped together as the DCAU, but that have never operated as a team or been on screen collectively.
I've been removing it since, at a stretch (and it's a looong stretch), it's trivia. Otherwise it's irrelevant to the list as structured.
- J Greb 17:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The main image on this page is the cover to an issue of Secret Wars II where his clothes are not visible and the lighting and pose makes him look green with red glowing eyes. Someone who saw this picture and didn't know what he looks like would get a very wrong idea. I think this needs to be fixed. Ken Arromdee 18:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello all. It would appear that the bot which provides updates on article assessments has stopped. The last update was June 4. It's not just for this project, either. WikiProject Food and drink is also affected. Anybody know what's going on? -- GentlemanGhost 16:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A new user, Tman930 ( talk · contribs) has been spamming the link comicartcommunity.com to several comic artists' articles. Given the similarity to the account name to that of an indefinitely blocked user, I thought I'd better put a note here. -- GentlemanGhost 17:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we still use Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/wanted? It seems redundant to have this page, the task template, and the comics section of the requested articles page. -- GentlemanGhost 10:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Due similar content disputes on several comics-related pages (and a myriad of talk page threads strewn across many article and user talk pages), I've started a general RfC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Request for comment/Asgardian. Please add your statements and/or comments there. - jc37 13:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking at Alex Ross and wondering... is that gallery a FUR-vio?
I look at it and think that it really isn't what images with a FUR are supposed to be used for since it feels like more decoration than "reasonable examples of his work".
- J Greb 05:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
On Shi (comic book) an editor keeps removing the formatting. I have reverted twice and left a number of message on their talk page as I've reached the edge of 3R (they may have stepped over). Can someone else take a look? ( Emperor 01:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC))
I just noticed, there's a Shi (comic book) article and a Shi (comics) article. *slaps forehead* I guess a merge/redirect is in order. -- GentlemanGhost 04:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
With what's being said about many of these articles on the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics/Notice_Board#Merging_Alternate_Characters (which I didn't know existed until about a week ago ha!) I just don't really agree, especially since it's only the Marvel characters being hit. I do see where the "merger person" is coming from but with some of the articles the merge will be unnessary. Yes, merging alternate characters into the mainstream's profile because the wikipedia isn't a fansite blah blah blah, but some alternate are notable enough to have their own article. Really i know that merge will win but in all fairness, shouldn't DC characters be merged as well? Why is X-Man excluded? Technically clones of characters should be merged as well like Superboy Prime and Ben Reilly? I just needed to moan. RIANZ 00:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I voiced some concerns about this on the talk page but nothing much came of it. I have proposed a better solution might be moving it to a more general "Indonesian comics" entry: Talk:Maqita#Term.3F I obviously need some input on that but also I see they are known as "komiks" but we already have an entry komiks on Filipino comics. So it suggests to me we may also need to consider moving that to "Filipino comics" or even "Filipino komiks" (and using komiks as a disambiguation page - there is also Komiks (TV series). The Czech word for comics may also be komiks [9]) - if the latter perhaps we need "Indonesian komiks"? So although a smaller issue there are slightly broader questions raised about the naming of entries. We have manga, manhua and manhwa on the assumption that "manga" == "Japanese comics" (ditto for Chinese and Korean), which doesn't seem unreasonable (note maqita is a more recent word just for Indonesian manga), but they are fairly widespread words used in English but I'd not want to push that precedent too far. So I'd suggest the better terms are "Indonesian comics" and "Filipino comics" but I wanted to check before setting the wheels in motion. Thoughts? ( Emperor 17:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC))
...and I'm not sure what Wiki's policy on it is.
Specifically it's Titans of Justice. Looking at it, it's a recently created (June 3) article dedicated to a fanfic hosted at www.clik.to/JLU.
My gut reaction is that it doesn't hit the "notability" threshold, and that it may just be a "hey look at this sort-of-MUSH" article.
Has anyone else run across anything like this? And is this something that there are over-all guidelines related to?
Thanks - J Greb 08:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've just finished a major revamp of Jason Todd (diff here) and I was wondering if anyone could track down any of the major news articles that reported on the character's death in 1988. The back of the A Death in the Family trade lists quotes from Time, Newsweek, Reuters, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and The Boston Rock. I would also like to request someone help fill out the issue citations a la the "Cite Comics" template so they list writers, authors, and dates of publication. Thanks. WesleyDodds 10:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The discussion on the Category:Superheroes by race and its subcats closed with no consensus [10] but I am concerned about the area. My digging around the policies following my initial comments there and brought up this: Overcategorization by ethnicity:
"Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. You should be able to write a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) for the category."
So the sub cats fundamentally fail the guidelines. Given issues involing retconning and the problems of assigning race to fictional characters (especially in comics where it might be implied visually not stated outright). I'm not sure what needs doing but something has to be done. Whether that is kicking it around here and reaching some kind of consensus or working the entries up from lists to full articles. If it just goes up for deletion/renaming/listifying without something being done then I suspect it will come down to no consensus again but without addressing the guideline violations it should really go back. Thoughts? ( Emperor 20:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC))
I'm kinda already expecting this to devolve into conflict, so I'd like you guys to look in at Tabitha Smith and Talk: Tabitha Smith. User:Amsterdamx is pretty much ignoring guidelines in favour of a more fansite style of writing. If you guys could step in and give your opinions, that'd be great. Kusonaga 16:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking into this I found something that is a bit worrying... well more than a bit. The image Boomboomblog.jpg is sitting in commons space with a {{ Copyrighted free use}} tag and nothing else.
I find this very suspect since the image is an internal panel and I would think that there would need to be something, a link or verbiage, laying out that Marvel actually signed off on this.
- J Greb 19:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Am I to understand that the Wikipedia Comic Project guidelines for images are stated in terms of Pixels Per Inch? If an image were taken from a movie poster, or from a postage stamp, at 72ppi, it would be way outside the limits of what most people would consider worthwhile on a web site. Maybe this specification should be reviewed.-- Drvanthorp 02:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm interested on working on an article about a comics character with multiple secret identities in order to bring it to at least GA status, which would also serve as an exemplar for the structure of similar multiple-incarnation character articles. I'm thinking either Robin (comics) or Flash (comics) (although I'm leaning towards the Flash because there are far more sources available on Robin, meaning GA or FA-level version of that would have a lot of material that would not be available for less-notable characters). Anyone interested in helping out? WesleyDodds 07:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Now, this is not a forum, a chatroom, a social scene, or any such thing. This is where we talk about work for WikiProject Comics. This talk page shouldn't get cluttered with people asking, several times throughout the year, things like, "Hey, are any of you gonna be at that comic book convention in (fill in the place) next month?" And yet, information like that could be helpful. It might be useful for some WPC contributors to meet each other in person. So suppose I'm attending Comic-Con International in San Diego next month as an academic professional presenting a paper at Comic-Con's Comic Arts Conference. Just suppose. What would be the best way to find out if other WPC contributors will be there? Doczilla 07:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
This got speedily deleted and I think it is worthy getting it back up and running but I want to make sure we have the notability angle fully covered so I have started assmbling material here that should help. If you run across anything (or have any other ideas or input) then drop a note in. ( Emperor 19:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC))
Is this worth an article? A one time team (for an issue or so, I'm not completely sure). A mention of them on villain lists seems like the best route to go. RobJ1981 19:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it just barely hits the max of what's 'enough' information for an article. Notability may be in question though. There's enough info for a decent sized entry on a villain list page. Which page were you thinking of putting them on? -- Ipstenu ( talk • contribs) 13:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Could some of you peek at Hercules (Marvel Comics) today? An anonymous user whose previous edits each appear to have been vandalism insists on changing Hercules from a god to a demigod even though Marvel Comics primarily calls him a demigod. Since I undid anon's edit first, even though I wasn't reverting to a version I'd written myself, I started the reverts and I've quickly had three this morning. Thanks. Doczilla 10:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there any objection to adding this imprint to the list? Several comics where printed under it, including Ren & Stimpy and Earthworm Jim. While we're at it, how does everyone feel about an article? -- Jelly Soup 05:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
This WikiProject had a redirect of the form WikiProject Foo. These are routinely deleted per the self reference policy. You should choose a redirect of the form WP:Foo instead. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 15:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what do with this image, as the uploader specifies it as being an original work of his, even though it obviously isn't. I'm not sure how to get this deleted (my vote, considering the design of Ultimate Madrox is practically the same to 616 Madrox) or changed, since well, it doesn't have proper licensing and lacks a fair use rationale. Kusonaga 20:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
The exemplars are causing way too much grief across the project. I'd like to propose we deprecate them and simply rely on the manual of style from now on. Hiding Talk 12:13, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Something that need to be dealt with. I recently found a Wikipedia article about AC Comics Scarlet Scorpion, and found some information that didn't ring true to me, so I posted questions to the Femforce Femformce Message Board, and got a reply from the character's creator, Bill Black:
And Mr. Black also made an edit to the Scarlet Scorpion wikipedia entry:
Now I know that some people might say that some forbidden thing called "original research" has occured here, and that this edit must be undone, and the information contained banished from Wikipedia forever, but I say that this is about as good a source as you could find. Also, Mr. Black's edit contains info about the history of the Scorpion, Sentinels of Justice, AC Comics, and Charlton Comics that I have never read anywhere before, and is at odds with what the Wikipedia entries say. How do I properly incorporate and source this information?-- Drvanthorp 16:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Bill Black regularly posts to the FemForce message board, which acts as his de-facto blog, and he posted most of this same information there, so that might be where you could link to. Some of the information that Black has contradicted is not well-sourced anyway, so I don't think that revising this information based on this sourcing would be too controversal.-- Drvanthorp 17:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
It's at User:Deckiller/Notability (fiction), with discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Rewrite_proposed. I figure this could have implications for editors who contribute to articles within the scope of this project, and I think in all fairness, it's only right all people have a fair chance of getting their voice heard. Hiding Talk 22:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, this doesn't really change notability for the works itself; it is mostly geared toward the endless subarticles. I'm anti-deletionist, and I've been attempting to forge this as a way to prevent all the AfDs while still providing a solution to the overbalance of in-universe perspective (Wikia/other Wikis/merging). Anyway, I'll be on semi-Wikibreak for the next while, so I might not be around much to discuss. — Deckill er 21:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem in there...
It's a matter of how it's applied.
An editor, any editor, that goes through making changes to articles to create a consistency without something (consensus, guideline, or policy for brevity I'm going to limp them together as "principles") to fall back on is more or less spitting into the wind. These type changes are as valid, or invalid, as any other like edits.
Once a principle is in place, it can be used to justify changes. The scope of the principle determines how far it can be applied. A principle, in and of itself, is not "toothless", it is the desire of editors and admins to enforce it or not that is in question. That is a separate, tricky, issue due to the guideline mandates to be bold and IAR.
Lastly, if an editor (general usage) wants to go about bringing articles in line with a principle, then there are a few niceties that should be kept in mind:
- J Greb 06:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm a bit slow this week, but I've read through the entire proposal. For WP:CMC obviously the main issue would be our great many articles on comics characters with limited exposure and/or those that have never headlined their own title. If I understand the proposal correctly, it would encourage articles on "minor" comics characters to be merged into a single article (e.g. "Minor Marvel Superheroes", "Other DC Supervillains" or what have you).
Obviously this would (or could) significantly impact scores of our articles which would certainly be a shame in many cases. That said, I can't genuinely dispute the basic argument that underlies notability standards, specifically that wikipedia editors need to provide citation, reliable sources and verification of all declarative sentences. Is it really that awful a concept to be held to the Pokémon test? Each Pokémon has its own article and editors have successfully defended them from notability based AfD arguments because editors took the time to methodically provide as much citation as possible (e.g. Eevee or Vigoroth). A number of minor Pokémon characters did indeed get merged into attractive and detailed group articles without any loss that I know of, and without undue angst on the part of that project's editors.
To put it another way, would it really be that awful if we lost our articles on Vector, Vapor, X-Ray and Ironclad when we already have an article on the U-Foes? - Markeer 13:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
This stub type's oversized again, so I've re-opened the issue of how to split it up, here. I suspect most of this territory was covered before, but just in case anyone has any further thoughts... Alai 05:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I've been noticing with disturbing frequency that very few images are given a fair use rationale. In fact, whenever I see an image in a comic article, I presume that it requires a fair use rationale and does not have one; it is left to me to try to supply one as best I can. Unfortunately, I am almost never wrong. Am I the only one who tries to add fair use rationales to images? Even images of critical importance almost never have fair use rationales until I add them. I can do my part, but I would rather not be alone in this. -- Lilwik 01:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't, I am under the belief that ANY comic image is good, if it is in a comic, which is what is stated in the licensing tag, then that is all the rational we need. Phoenix741 01:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I just nominated this article for deletion. I think it should go, but I'm letting people know because its only fair to give anyone who would disagree with me all the chances they can to state their case. :) Stephen Day 23:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This guy SHOULD be mentioned somewhere, but not his own article. Thanks for the heads up.
Phoenix741 23:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Speculation is continually added to this page about a possible movie role. If someone could keep an eye on it (as I haven't seen S3 yet so I don't want to get anymore spoiled) and revert any "Some fans believe Carnage..." or so forth I'd appreciate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CyberGhostface ( talk • contribs) 00:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Is the bot that keeps track of the assessment tag additions and changes stalled again? It looks like that portion of the page hasn't been updated since the 4th.
- J Greb 19:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
When Category:Robin (comics) showed up on the Dick Grayson article, I got curious and did a little looking...
This, relatively, long-standing editor has created some interesting cats (and this just looking back 2 weeks...) including (relevant to this project at least):
I just wanted to get the projects 2¢ before throwing these into a CfD... Are any of these worthwhile and I'm missing it?
- J Greb 08:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
No I think we should get rid of them all.
Phoenix741 14:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
As useful as this list is... it just seems like a regurgitation of Decimation (comics). Should it be deleted? I'm not quite sure to be honest. StarSpangledKiwi 09:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find some information for
my work on the
Jason Voorhees article. I'm trying to locate verifiable evidence if the existence of a few comics. One is the Jack Kirby "Satan's Six" #4, written in 1993. The other is a 3 issue comic, written by Nancy Collins in 1995, "Jason vs. Leatherface". I can only find ebay sales for this, and these are not good enough since the pages will expire after time. Could someone help me find evidence of the comics existence, as I want to protect against people challenging their existence. I was originally using "fridaythe13thfilms.com" as a source, but the site is not debunk, so I have to find something else.
BIGNOLE
(Contact me) 16:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a broader signifier we can use in Infoboxes to replace "Homeworld". As seen here some people seem to have a problems with it being used to signify other points of origin. -- Basique 19:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has been nominated for deletion. Stephen Day 01:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Can we just get rid of most of these? I know they exist for just about every Marvel "Ultimate" title (and I'm sure there is more). They fall under fancruft and plot problems in my opinion. I put Ultimate Spider-Man (story arcs) in AFD, as a start to end some of this nonsense. It was nominated in the past, but many people were for merging as well (and I don't see the keep outcome as accurate, when it could've been no consensus probably). RobJ1981 20:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I think we should merge them all, like what is done on Ultimate Spider-man, it seems to work real well. Phoenix741 01:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I've proposed on the individual pages that we move them to "List of (comic name) story arcs." As structured lists, they could be both informative and conform with Wikipedia policies. Some of them would need to be reworked a bit, but not too much, really. It would basically be the same as the lists of telelvision episodes or other serial fiction. Support? Oppose? - Chunky Rice 17:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone have a look at the Liam Sharp entry? There has been quite a bit of "vandalism" suggesting the picture isn't Sharp. It certainly doesn't look like the one that was removed (see my comments on the talk page) and the source link doesn't seem to contain the image (that I could find). I am suspicious someone has uploaded a picture of someone else when the previous image was deleted. ( Emperor 00:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
Does this really need its own article?
Crisis (DC Comics)
And isn't this crystal balling?
Final Crisis It's just an unexplained teaser.
Wryspy 00:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether Pines Comics is notable enough for an own article. I would appreciate an expert opinion. For details, see the article's talk page. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! -- B. Wolterding 07:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Could someone look at Dustland? It's weird. It largely talks about controversies and conspiracy theories (with no sources) revolving around the site possibly being used for viral marketing and that it was taken down on March 10th leaving a Dustland splash page - the entry itself was started on 15th March suggesting that the two are linked. Equally there is nothing but Wikipedia as a google result [15] except for this one page [16]. It could be some kind of meta-fictional thing or ARG or something viral or a tiny comic no one has ever heard about. Was there another name? has anyone here heard of it? There is so much periperhal detail I do wonder if something is up and it is odd to find nothing online even about the smallest title. ( Emperor 02:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
Any thoughts on this spate of cats added to Category:Ultimate Marvel:
and
The "teams" seems to be a place-holder gathering superhero and villain teams. The others are collecting mostly articles which have a section on the Ultimate U's version of the article's topic.
- J Greb 17:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone else seen this page: Marvel Team-Up It screams of listcruft in my opinion. Each main character/characters of every issue is listed. While the series is about characters teaming, I don't see why we have to list all that information here. It might be useful to some, but frankly I feel it's listcruft. Then there is List of What If issues. Each issue title is listed. I certainly feel that's listcruft as well. It's a special series with official titles for each comic issue, but I certainly don't see how it's encyclopedic for Wikipedia. Suitable for a comic wiki: yes, but not here. What does everyone else think? RobJ1981 06:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I say keep both. They are important to the whole like idea of the article. And I really dont think it is list-cruft, I think it is very informative. Phoenix741 16:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The big tables are overkill, but the actual info has a place, I think. -- Jamdav86 08:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I think it's worth exploring the issue once again. The exemplars are heavily at odds with WP:NOT and WP:WAF, namely that they encourage large tracts of plot summary and an in-universe style. I'd like to merge them into the editorial guidance and look at approaching the issues in a similar manner to other WikiProjects. Mostly, the aim is to write an encyclopedia, so we want to be encouraging people to work articles up to WP:GA and WP:FA status. Some good articles to look at include Anarky, Silver Surfer and Storm (Marvel Comics). Featured articles include Superman and Batman. What we need to be looking at is getting articles up to those sort of standards. Articles which are on the way include Captain America. Another issue that needs to be looked at is when to split other versions off into articles. My own feeling is that this should be done when an encyclopedic treatment can be written. Looking at the message above, it looks like there is now a notability WikiProject, which could cause problems give the identification of notability as meaning coverage in third party sources, so we've got to look at when we do split out.
Other projects guidance:
So, to solve issues over articles becoming too plot heavy and to address the in universe style, and to make sure that articles are written with an encyclopedic tone, I'd like to propose we consider offering the following guidance:
Also, we may need to look at merging and listifying in certain areas given proposals at WP:FICT. It might be worth generating some discussion of the approach taken in turning List of Final Fantasy VIII characters into Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. Appreciate thoughts. Hiding Talk 14:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to briefly summarise the origin and superpowers in the lead section? Some articles do this already, but I think it should be standard. Thoughts?-- Jamdav86 16:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The more we specify, the easer it is for less experienced editors to change pages. The exemplars should, I think, be inspiring to the editing of pages, not guidelines restricting editors. -- Jamdav86 18:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Captain_America&diff=146795192&oldid=146794666
I have reverted this like 5 times and told him to stop, but he wont. Phoenix741 17:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Whoever maintains the Thunderbolts page might want to go rescue their images before they are deleted. The Sfan00 IMG bot has just finished an untethered deletion tagging rampage through quite a few Project pages. -- Basique 12:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
damn, it looks like he got ALL of them. If I get time I might fix a few, then again I still think fair use is BS so what ever. Phoenix741 14:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone else look over the overview section of the Jamie Delano entry. I have done various cleanups (as have other project members) but the overview has remained largely untouched. It is odd: It was dropped in fully formed when the page was created [19], it is well written, it seems more like you'd imagine from a non-neutral biography (from the author or their publisher) and makes quite a few claims that are either opinion or difficult to source. I removed the most obvious example: "One of Vertigo's most prolific, most crucial but, in the opinion of many, too often overlooked creators. Some would even argue that only Alan Moore's own influence was greater." and flagged some more but I suspect the main body of the text needs work but as it is tightly written I suspect most editors have been loath to jump in (I know I have ;) ). ( Emperor 15:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC))
I just came along this while looking through an X-Men category. It was in AFD months ago (here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uncanny X-men 094): with no consensus result. I personally feel articles on one certain comic book issue aren't acceptable for Wikipedia. RobJ1981 12:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I've made a big update to this page, incorporating the b's from my own list. I'm sorry that it is taking me so long; I'll propably be through the alphabet in about five years. I'll try to make this contributions more quickly, but I don't have much free time.
The list has been modified to have sortable columns containing publication and creator information about the characters. Might have a few things that need fixed; many dead links for one, and also character versions using the roman numeral convention not used on Wikipedia.-- Drvanthorp 17:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Should this even be here? Cause I can see this as an excuse as a way to start up ALOT more wikiprojects(spider-man, Marvel, DC, Batman) and so on. And honestly, if they wanted to wrok on superman type articles, then join this project and only work on super man type articles. 8-/ Phoenix741 17:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
)
Here is what I am thinking, feel free to add to this List:
Phoenix741 22:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok sounds good. Just post link when everything is created, so we can give our support. Phoenix741 23:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Do you want me add something to the superman and Batman project so they can give the support and Merge. Phoenix741 00:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I was going to add some more information to Special Executive but the character history is a bit difficult to address so I just wanted to get some input as I might have to rewrite it and didn't want to jump in without first opening it up to discussion. My main concern is that it violates WP:WAF, especially the in-universe issues. It is written as a history (note the whole thing was dropped in by the first editor and hasn't changed much since) but the team was introduced and then Moore filled in the background later. Given that time travel is also involved, some of their history is only revealed/happens mcuh later (for example Technet don't crop up until after the Doctor Who run and initial Captain Britain story arc). So, the appearances have been re-arranged into order for the history as given there. I suspect this is an issue and would like to slice it up and put it back into the order information was presented. This might get a little tricky and I wanted to get thoughts on this, which might reflect on the bigger issue of fictional character biographies vs publication histories (although WP:WAF would suggest they should probably be quite similar). Thoughts? ( Emperor 17:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC))
Not really, but looks really close. http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1143#cave Thanks, CarpD, 8/2/07.
cool yes, should it be in wikipedia, most likly not. 8-/ Phoenix741 11:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Back to this popular topic [22] [23]. One of mine got tagged up and I need to get my ass in gear on this (I'll tag it and then throw it in here for people to have a look at it and see if it is OK). Also the machine is moving forward again - the main Garth Ennis image got deleted which is a pain. The previous one was a good one but a bit grainy, can anyone provide one? Presumably a free one.
Anything else in need of urgent fixing? ( Emperor 20:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC))
I've done several more. I'm not organized about it, it's not a chore, I just can't resist adding a fair use rationale whenever I come to an article with an important image. I think of how useless the article would be without the image, as is the case with most comic book articles, and then I just have to add the obvious justification for the existence of the image. Please, just think of how important the images are for all of your favorite articles and take a moment to add a fair use rationale, even if the image hasn't be marked for deletion yet. -- Lilwik 05:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I just saw one image get speedily deleted on FUR grounds [24] - was this something specific to the image or a new trend? If there'd been an alert that there was a problem I could have looked into fixing it and if widespread could get to be more of a pain. ( Emperor 18:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC))
Seems a new robot has started and it is moving at such a pace I don't think it is possible to keep up: Check it out. I am actually unsure if I can even list the ones it has tagged on my watchlist. I'll give it a shot - if anyone thinks it is important then tag it asap as things are gettin rapidly deleted too (I've lost a number of images and spotted others that seem to have been speedied without provisional tagging) - these are just from my watchlist over the last 3 days:
I suspect at least half the images within our remit could go to the wall quite quickly and some of those are the leading images on main articles (also note some might have been addressed - feel free to strike through anything that is done). I'm behind on tagging images I've uploaded and have lost a few so am not doing well. ( Emperor 14:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC))
I was coming here to post a notice about the contemptible bot-tagging, but it looks like you guys are already aware of it. Something approaching 100 images that I had uploaded over a span of years were tagged within a day, nearly all of which were clearly acceptable under current guidelines had anyone actually looked; simply no one had gone through the chore of posting the "fair use rationale," which is of course little more than longer boilerplate than the fair use tags with little variation. I fixed most of them (as if I didn't have anything better to do tonight), many of which are listed above. But honestly, this is one of the reasons why I don't spend much time on here any longer. The mindlessly authoritarian hijacking of the fair use image process has been wasteful and indiscriminately implemented. And that a bot is being set loose to tag images for deletion is really a contemptible waste of time and effort, as innumerable images that are legally sound, and comply with the substance of Wikipedia policy, will be deleted simply because no one happened to be watching or have the time to take care of pasting in the new boilerplate in the few days in between the bot-tagging and bot-deletion, and will just have to be uploaded again later on by someone else because the articles need them. Though honestly I haven't seen much more discriminating judgment used by non-bot image taggers. Postdlf 04:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
So who do we need to talk to in order to fix this problem? Phoenix741 17:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
ok........(I just decided to ignore Lilwik) anyway we should get the time limit longer, I mean untill the madness stops it should go back to 7 days, but until then mabey we could get it to 2 weeks to give us time, also we should find a way to make it a policy to get it on the ARTICLE'S talk page and not just the uploaders, I think that will help alot. Phoenix741 23:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
There are now a rather large number of proposed sub-projects proposed with would deal in a more concentrated way with specific parts of the comics field. If you would be interested in any of them, please indicate as much in the "Interested Wikipedians" section of the appropriate proposal below:
Thank you for your attention. John Carter 23:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
do we put our name in if we want it to exist, or if we want to be a part of it? Phoenix741 23:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The start of Adam Warlock states "Adam Warlock, also known as Him, is a fictional character who originated in comic books published by Marvel Comics, which owns all trademarks and copyrights pertaining to the character." Is this overkill (hat can be removed?) or do we have to be a bit careful running fast and loose with various companies trademarked terms? ( Emperor 17:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC))
This is filled with tags. I was wondering if he was notable or not? If not: a prod would work in my view. RobJ1981 16:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone seen this lately? It's just becoming larger and larger: and frankly I don't see why people feel the need for it to be a complete guide to enemies. Look here for what I'm talking about: List_of_Spider-Man_enemies#Complete_list_of_enemies. A list being about "completeness" makes the list poor in my view. There is also: List_of_Spider-Man_enemies#Made-For-TV_Villains, which is getting very cluttered as well. RobJ1981 15:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
In the complicated world of comics characters can often work under various names and I am curious about when to create a separate entry.
This came up through Jason Macendale - someone requested the creation of the entry and I saw the other day that it had been created [26]. Checking it out I see he was both Jack O'Lantern (Marvel Comics)#Jack O'Lantern I and Hobgoblin (comics)#Jason Macendale)
The sections were trimmed down and work was started on turning it into a proper entry but the work was undone [27] [28]
Now I'm pretty neutral on the issue of the specific entry (as it appears is the editor who did the bulk of the work - although clearly as it was in or requested list someone thought it worthwhile) but I was wondering if there was a rule of thumb about this kind of thing. I can see the logic in reducing redundancy and also in creating a more coherent character history which would be more useful to the average user. Thoughts? ( Emperor 11:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
Checking out Superpowers (comics) I see it was speedy deleted and I missed it (despite having it on my watchlist). There is enough material around already, e.g. [29], to make a good case for it and I was wondering if an admin could look into bringing it back to life? Seems simpler than adding it to the request list. ( Emperor 14:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
Is Superpower (ability) the page now? - Peregrine Fisher 18:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Tried to add the promo image to it, seems to not want to work 8-/ Phoenix741 (Talk Page) 20:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
JLA/Avengers needs some more editors to keep an eye on it as there is a bit of an edit war going on. I've dropped a note into the talk page but it may take a few more eyes on the page to make sure people don't accidentally get dragged into overstepping the line. ( Emperor 01:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
This page needs to be redone, plain and simple. It's jumbled with member lists and short stubs at every page break. I recommend a similar approach that's in the Justice League and Teen Titans (comics) articles, by creating a separate page detailing every member that's been active, and at what time. It would give the actual content much more of a focus. -- CmdrClow 06:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Currently Image:Captainmarvel.JPG is just attached to the FA archive for Captain Marvel (DC Comics) and BetacommandBot keeps tagging it as "Orphaned".
Is there a way to cover it so that this doesn't happen, or should it drop from the archive?
- J Greb 06:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
The Twelve is an upcoming series (see Chris Weston for all the references I can find) that might need a bit of preliminary work as the team is made from obscure Timely Comics characters and it might be a good idea to have entries ready giving some background to the characters so the limited series can slot in nicely when it gets going. The team is:
Newsarama are doing a 12 Days of the Twelve with character designs and some more information which might prove helpful. I've done a bit of work on The Witness but a lot of the others need expanding, creating or splitting/disambiguating might be needed (on the latter see Captain Wonder and Mister E) so some planning now (even if it is laying out stubs) could avoid mess further down the line. ( Emperor 16:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC))
CBR have the numbers crunched back to September 2006 [56] and adding sales figures to things that top the sales table (like World War Hulk this month with over $700k of sales) would help tick the box real world impact. Worth pursuing? ( Emperor 02:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC))
Is this OK within the guidelines for WP:FICTION? It has been about for a long while so I'll assume it is but I wanted to check in case it is used as a precendet for something similar. ( Emperor 23:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC))
I'm involved in a somewhat ridiculous debate with an editor over at the Power Pack article, so I thought I'd ask here to see if there was any "official" or common project policy for the issue at hand.
The original text of the Power Pack article stated that the characters and series premiered in August 1984. The information for this was gleaned from the cover date of the first issue. Knowing that at the time, Marvel pushed its cover dates three months ahead, and having concrete proof that the series actually went on sale in May, I changed the text to reflect this. This seems to be the policy on many other comics pages where the issue/event is significant, such as the Fall of the Mutants crossover, which uses the fall 1987 release dates instead of the winter 1988 cover dates. IMHO the debut of the original PP series and the characters, which are still around in various Marvel universes are significant enough to give the correct month the issue went on sale. An editor has jumped in and absolutely insisted that there's no value to this, that only cover dates are acceptable, etc. etc. etc. Nobody else has objected to the change but this one editor, but he seems to be adamant about it.
Is there any official policy that says that release dates can never be used? Would a debut of a series/set of characters be significant enough to warrant their inclusion? Thanks for any help with this issue. DanielEng 10:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It's been a basic critieron when citing any periodical to go with the cover date, be it Time or an academic journal. An instance where I can see the actual release date needing to mentioned is something like the The Death of Superman article, where there was a huge media focus on the event, and where I'm sure the initial printing sold out rather quickly. WesleyDodds 22:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Previously [60] and now someone else is tagging images and it seems like some of them are ones we've dealt with (and quite a few have FURs) so they might need a double checking:
Seems the user is going through Category:Non-free comic images as their recent contributions are all tagging comics-related images. In fact checking through that cat and it seems like a good percentage of them are tagged and I know quite a few of these haven't been flagged on the relevant talk pages. Others haven't been tagged but do lack FURs so it can't be long before they get tagged (some don't appear to have source links or info e.g. Image:Abner (Buffyverse character).jpg). ( Emperor 01:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC))
I am done with fair use........I am going to add the images and such, and I will add where the image comes from in the summary as to respect the copyright. But other than that I am done, I am going to remove that crap they put in my talk page, and well I hope they started to put it in the articles page to, cause I am not dealing with it anymore. They have gone crazy with this stuff(honestly I think they got sued or something and are now trying to save their own asses) and I am just done. GL with this mess. Phoenix741 (Talk Page) 01:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm curious to know what everybody else thinks about this. Basically, a few editors have copied and pasted most of the original content of the powers and abilities section of the Hulk to a blank page and are calling it an article. The article is essentially made up of about three main sections. The first section has all of his physical capabilities divided up into subcategories. The second one is a "Other Signifigant Feats" section providing a list of various displays of the Hulk's powers, and a final section devoted to sort of obscure powers or abilities the character possesses. I wanted to sort of run this by on this page to get the thoughts of other editors, since some probably don't browse the Hulk article very much or at all. The article strikes me as just something created entirely for the benefit of fans of the character. The "other Signifigant Feats" section strikes me as little more than a list that the creators of the article feel displays the character's awesome physical prowess and is also for the benefit of fans. The section itself seems nothing more than POV to me. What makes the feats so signifigant and to whom are they signifigant to? Some that endorse the page have taken a "it'll give readers more in depth information into the character" type of stance. Odin's Beard 15:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought I'd read that categories should be sorted by importance (but can't find the right place - if it exists) and I notice TheOuterLimits has been sorting them alphabetically (e.g. [61]). If that is the right way to sort the categories then best for me to know now so I can make sure I do it right in the future but I'd want to double check first. ( Emperor 19:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC))
I should probably have given you good people a heads-up on this sooner, but better late than never. Fun Home is now being considered at FAC. Early indications are fairly good, but reviewers want more coverage of themes in the work and scholarly commentary. If any members of this project have access to scholarly sources which discuss Fun Home, please feel free to add them to the article. (At the moment, "theme" is combined with "plot" in the article because of the book's non-linear structure, but anyone who wants to separate the two is welcome to try.) — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 06:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The character history section at Wolverine (comics) needs some serious trimming. I started to work on it, but quickly realized: 1. I know a reasonable amount about Wolverine, but not enough to weed through all that prose to determine what should stay and what should go, and 2. Some of the story descriptions are so detailed I don't want to spoil stories for myself I haven't read yet while trying to edit the page. WesleyDodds 10:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
FYI. (I just discovered it.) - jc37 12:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I speedied it per prior CFDs, for Marvel teams and DC teams. Postdlf 18:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, today I found my library's copy of Seduction of the Innocent. I just used it right now to tweak Batman. Anyone else want me to cite anything from it? WesleyDodds 23:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Returning to including sales figures [62] in entries I updated World War Hulk#Reception adding the section and a brief outline of the sales figures. Any thoughts on wording, etc. as I want it to be informative without sounding too press releasey (as with films and box office takes). ( Emperor 16:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
I am a little concerned about this category: Category:Superhero graphic novels which largely contains trade paperbacks and given the sheer number of them it would drown the actual graphic novels like Bighead, making the category useless. In particular its children are shaky. For example with Category:Superman graphic novels I've just removed the cat from Superman: Up, Up and Away! which is purely a story arc (and doesn't even specify a trade collection is available - although I assume there is one) which was the only occupant of this cat and I am unsure how many Superman GNs there are. The Batman one is fuller Category:Batman graphic novels but few of them are graphic novels
One solution might be making a "trade paperbacks" category but I don't really see that being overly useful. Its strikes me that Category:Comic book storylines and Category:Comic book limited series are much more useful ways of classifying such things (as the limited series and important storylines are usually collected into trades). For example Batman: The Killing Joke is in Batman GNs but is actually already classed under one-shots and Batman storylines nd would stretch the definition of a graphic novel to breaking point.
I'd say put up Batman and Superman GNs to be upmerged into the Superhero GNs cat and keep an eye on it. Thoughts? ( Emperor 18:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC))
What do you make of this: Category:Elemental superheroes? I'd struggle to know who counts and who doesn't (we have Swamp Thing mixed in with Iceman and others). I was pondering what would happen if the cat was turned into a list (as has been previous suggested for tricky cats that might need some solid policing to keep focused) - I can't imagine it'd survive unless there was some rock solid definition with references otherwise isn't it just opinion and original research? I may be missing something and this might be a well known class of superherodom I'm not aware of but it caused my concern and I thought I'd throw it open for a second opinion. ( Emperor 23:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
According to WP:FICT, how are characters like Nora Fries or Rocket Racer notable? I have no desire to see their articles deleted, but I would like to hear how this WikiProject interprets Wikipedia's guidelines. ichor}mos quito{ 05:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
While we seem to be on a category flagging thing what about: Category:Comic book terrorists I think we had "comic book mass murderers" a while back and while this isn't the same I do wonder how easy it is to define. Also this one has Magneto (comics) too (I wonder if there is some kind of Magneto Test or The Magneto Rule of Wikipedia Categories). Was he a terrorist or a freedom fighter or just a supervillain? I could possibly see how some would fit but aren't most supervillains terrorists? ( Emperor 23:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
Bit of an odd one but I noticed someone adding all the Elseworlds titles to Category:Comic book alternate universes which didn't seem to be a good idea as there is a more specific child (and I ended up adding the Elseworlds category as a child of it) and then looking through it, I see all the Marvel dimensions are in there too as well as in the Marvel child. Checking I see the same user seems to have added all of those too when they were already in Category:Marvel Comics dimensions. I've asked them to stop but they ploughed on regardless "solving" the problem by deleting the cat from its children (which I've undone) [63]. They also seem to be adding characters [64] and with the edits going in at up to 3 a minute this has rapidly lead to a few dozen articles that need fixing. Is there any easy fix to this? ( Emperor 00:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC))
I'm going to be working on a clean up of Satan in popular culture and was aiming at a section for "Satan in comics" as we have a lot of characters in the Devil role, e.g. Satan (comics) and Lucifer (comics) as well as Mephisto (comics) and would appreciate any input on that. I also stumbled across an interesting book (which I added to the reference section) and if anyone has read that and has any good quotes to flesh things out that'd be really handy too. ( Emperor 13:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
Going to spend a couple of hours in the library tomorrow. Aside from Phantom Lady, anyone else want me to try and find reference for anything? While on the subject, I think there needs to be a greater push by the project to look up reliable and verifiable citations for comics articles; the reference gap between the FA and GA level comics articles and everything else is pretty severe. WesleyDodds 04:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Previously [65] I brought up Chapters in Watchmen and now I see we have Chapters in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. My questions still stands - who does this chime with WP:FICTION as it is nearly all plot? ( Emperor 13:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC))
As they stand they should be deleted. -- Fredrick day 14:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I've listed Chapters in Watchmen for deletion. Feel free to follow suit with the Batman one too. Postdlf 02:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The proposed workgroup at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#DC Comics now has six members signed aboard, which might be enough to activate a task force. Do the rest of you think such should be done, and does anyone know how to adjust the banner accordingly, if such is to be done? John Carter 14:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I've been pointed to this Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images: "Cover art from various items, for identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary)."
Now we use cover art as illustration of various phases in a comic books history. For example: Thunderbolts (comics). However, those sections don't really count as critical commentary - I know we have to tighten up the image use on both those pages but the imposition of that would mean the removal of the lot. If that is the way it should be then so be it but it would have big implications across the entire project so I wanted to get feedback on this before doing anything. ( Emperor 00:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC))
Have you guys seen S.H.I.E.L.D. and Secret Six (comics)? The infoboxes there have a wikilink to the rosters. -- 69.22.254.111 14:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Is there anything that can be done with Category:Homage superheroes? It is workable or should it be deleted? 24.136.11.57 19:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed this. I don't think two articles about the same character are needed. Stephen Day 21:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Talk:Absorbing Man#Fact check needed
It's the Ang Lee film comment yet again. This time it was added with a cite, and chucked out with prejudice.
Thanks - J Greb 09:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a question for those Batman buffs that I don't know the answer to: I always thought that the Joker was the villain in Batman issue #1? Contrary to this however, I saw in this comic book collection called "The Greatest Batman Stories ever told, Vol 2" printed in the 1980s that the villain in Batman issue #1 was Hugo Strange and the monster men. Now I know that Hugo Strange is considered the first ever reoccuring Batman villain, but again, I thought it was the Joker and Catwoman who appeared in Batman issue #1? Is the book wrong or am I incorrect? Can someone explain? Cheers, Spawn Man 04:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
There's currently a proposal to merge Ibn al Xu'ffasch with Damian Wayne, as they are after all alternate versions of each other. A merger would make sense to me, but some WP:COMIC input / contribution is always helpful.~ Zythe Talk to me! 15:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I would like to have the feedback of active wikiproject members on the following. Wikipedia has a number of guidelines on articles about fiction, predominantly WP:FICT and WP:WAF. These guidelines have been rewritten some time ago, but this appears to have been done without substantial input from editors who write about fiction.
Guidelines on Wikipedia are supposed to be a description of common practice. At present, however, these guidelines call for the removal of most material that does not include real-world information, which could be read as to include most articles about fictional characters, locations and concepts, such as those about comics and graphic novels.
This does not reflect actual practice, because Wikipedia has thousands of such articles. Now there's no need for alarm, because to my knowledge, nobody is actually deleting any of this. However, it would be prudent to reword and update the aforementioned guidelines to accurately reflect how, and on which aspects, articles on fiction are written.
Please feel free to update the guidelines as needed, or direct your feedback to their respective talk pages. >Radiant< 10:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
As it stands the article has a big "trivia trap" which is the kind of thing that has got dozens of other "in popular culture" entries deleted (and it is a bottomless pit of almost completely unreferenced material). On the talk page I have suggested a name change and a refocus [69] partly based on Batman franchise media which is a much tighter entry with a well-defined focus (the Superman one feels like a dumping ground for things that don't fit elsewhere). However, there is some discussion about the naming (as it was moved from "Batman in popular culture") [70] so it strikes me that it might be a good idea to come up with a consensus solution to the general area which should help make current and future entries easier to name and manage. Basically I want to avoid "in popular culture/media" and if it isn't 100% correct "franchise media" is certainly getting there. So thoughts? ( Emperor 20:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC))
Interested members of WikiProject Comics may want to weigh in on a wiki creator who has added links to dozens of articles in violation of conflict-of-interest policies and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Examples. Go to: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 August 31. -- Tenebrae 02:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a RFC posted over WP:NAMB and I think the issue (using hatnotes on non-ambiguous articles, at least in the right way) is an important issue for the comics project (as companies often have characters of the same name). I've dropped in my take on the subject on the talk page and summarised my thinking in the RFC [72] ( Emperor 16:17, 2 September 2007 (UTC))
One editor has been working through a list of Marvel characters and adding those not already present. They are hammering them in and while I didn't spot any problems (I do notice previous edits have triggered a spambot) there is just a lot of them. I'd usually check new entries for categories, sources (if not request them), check if they are over disambiguated (some of the are), checking if they are orphaned, etc. but there are just so many I've run out of steam just adding them to the list of newly created articles (and have only got back to late Cs although they are only themselves up to late Gs) and have run into a couple of things I want to fix while they are on my mind. I'll work through them eventually but in the spirit of "many hands make light work" if anyone is interested they can start here (and the two more recent edits). Oh and the Evil Eye one shouldn't have been created and so there is a merge on the go with Evil Eye of Avalon, it may also be worth checking the two Ghost Girls as I don't know them well enough to spot if they are the same/similar.
It also brings up a side question about how minor a minor character can be before they drop off our radar. ( Emperor 20:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC))
Looking at The Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes (and similar like Hellboy: Seed of Destruction) and it strikes me that it'd be handy to have an optional next/previous field in the comic book infobox like they have for TV episodes. Is there anything else that might be needed so they work well with trade paperbacks or would it be worth having an infobox for graphic novels/trade paperbacks as separate from a comic book one as they have different needs? ( Emperor 12:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC))
The Changeling article was recently turned into a redirect to the Morph article. Should this have happened?
There is a small section in the Morph article about the Changeling, but they are still two different characters and there is an awful lot of information that wasn't merged in Morph (comics).
I was going to restore Changeling (Marvel Comics), but decided to ask first before doing so. Stephen Day 23:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Quick question - I was thinking of editing the Changeling article to flesh it out sometime this weekend, but I'm not sure if it would or wouldn't be bad form to do so while the merge discussion is ongoing. Stephen Day 23:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Could I get a few people to have a look over the newly restored criticism section of the Newsarama article? I have done a basic clean-up [74] (moving references to the footnotes and also putting awards in its own section - tagging it onto criticism seemed... inappropriate) but I am also concerned about the sources used. We discussed online reliable sources and while Newsarama and Comic Book Resources (and Silver Bullet Comic Books) were OK one of the lines drawn was over the gossip column sections like Rich Johnston's (even though he is right most of them time - he uses a system to rate the reliability of the stories). Not only are the columns used as a reference, so are Johnston's comments on Newsgroups and while I suppose it helps show his various opinions but I am unsure how far we want to go along that road. Obviously we want to get a balanced article but we also want to avoid giving too much room to what some people might consider online spats between writers on competing sites. Where to draw the line though? ( Emperor 02:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC))
I do believe it is popular (I'd probably be on there if I "got" social networking sites like that) but I see ComicSpace has been deleted twice. I can't see any deletion discussion but I am wondering if it is possibly/worthwhile trying to prove it? Just a thought in passing. ( Emperor 02:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC))
Looks like a few more of the List articles from Category:Lists of fictional characters by superhuman feature or ability are up for AfD, with the suggestion to convert them into cats. It looks like the vicious cycle is going to turn. - J Greb 03:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Looks like all the lists are currently up for AfD, and some of the arguments against echo the reasons the cats went away, such as one ivote to delete commenting (paraphrase slightly) "I can write my name in the snow, so I qualify." with regard to the water manip list.
I'm tempted to boiler plate some thing like...
- J Greb 03:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Having that absorbing man issue again. [78]. - Peregrine Fisher 18:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a new major discussion going on one the talk page above regarding the plot summary content of the articles that deal with fiction, including such things as TV shows, movies, and, yes, comics. Anyone interested is more than encouraged to take part in the discussion there. John Carter 21:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
On the Blade page and on my and John Carter's talk pages, there's been some discussion about non-free images in the superherobox.
At WikiProject Comics: Superhero box images, it says not to use images that wouldn't fall under fair-use guidelines, such as Marvel Handbook images. Promotional art and comic-book covers, under this guideline, are OK.
The page Content Critera Exemptions says non-free content is never to be used in any template. I read this to read it to mean non-free images aren't to be used as part of the template itself — in other words, you couldn't have an image of, say, Spider-Man be a part of the Marvel Comics template, and show up in every Marvel Comics infobox. The covers/promo art aren't part of the template, but inserted into the template.
Thoughts? -- Tenebrae 22:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Betacommand Bot has sprung into action again and these are the ones I've got on my watchlist:
I'll try and keep an eye on the situation. ( Emperor 03:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
I've done some work to fix the Normie Osborn article and incorporate the trivia, but it still needs a 'Powers and abilities' section. I know enough about the character to make the fixes I've been making, but not enough to build that section. If someone here reads Spider-Girl and can add that section, that would be appreciated. Thanks! - Freak104 16:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed something we should all be aware of.
For example, over in Spike Freeman, it used to say that Spike was patterned after Rob Liefeld re: looks. Problem is, the fictional Spike is a psychopathic murdering nutjob. Libel anyone? Certainly seemed that way to me, so I deleted it.
And then today, I was over in Advanced Idea Mechanics and noticed a link to George Clinton, funk musician. Turns out that George Clinton is also a fictional terrorist...yet he was being linked to a real person. I removed the link.
In conclusion, with the sheer number of names associated with villains, we should all be on the lookout. Too much can go wrong. Lots42 12:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I just had to remove all the content of this article, as it was a copyright violation. I'm posting here in the hopes that someone can rewrite the article from scratch. Thanks! Mango juice talk 17:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Per a request at Wikipedia:Requested templates, I have created a template to make it easier to link to the DC Animated Universe Wiki. Please see Template:Dcauw for examples and feel free to replace existing links with this. —dgies t c 22:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Some editors are trying to have this image removed, saying it's not important enough to the characters' histories for inclusion. -- DrBat 12:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm still very uncertain of this. The nature of comics characters is that they go through lots of changes, some that stick and are important, others that are ephemeral. This is a recent change, but it's a change that has only appeared in one panel of one comic. Furthermore, I don't see what the image adds - there's nothing special or unusual about their appearance as ghosts - they're transluscent, like most portrayals of ghosts. So nothing seems to be being added to what's in the text by this image, and I'm unconvinced it's of particular significance as it illustrates one panel of one story, and, at present, no known future appearances of these characters are planned. Phil Sandifer 21:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
This page needs a bit of cleanup, unless there is more than one Hurricane in the Marvel Universe named Albert Potter! 204.153.84.10 14:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm at my witts end and the last Admin to have a run at this has ignored a post to their talk page that the problem has continued after the last round of Blocks.
Nutshell: Asgardian and DrBat which earned a 24 hr block on the 3rd for edit warring the article.
When he came back after the block, Asgardian has repeatedly blanket reverted, with he himself not bothering to participate on the talk page but chiding others to, the article 5 time to his Sept 3 version.
This isn't the only article he's done this to. From Neil's (the last blocking admin) talk here's the list:
These are following the same general practices that had generated escalating blocks from Hiding on June 22, and July 6.
Should this go back to the RfC or are we at a point where we have other options.
- J Greb 06:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the comic articles do not have the proper heading as laid out in Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/exemplars. I have gone through numerous pages and fixed a lot of the headings. Most of the articles I edited are the small/minor articles that not many people see. But some of the big articles also had incorrect headings. My goal was to finish fixing 99% of the articles by myself, but I realize that is unrealistic as I have less and less time to do anything besides work. All articles in the Category:Marvel comics superheroes have been fixed (unless someone changed the headings back after I went through), and I have gotten a start on the Category:Marvel Comics supervillains (I have finished all articles through the letter 'B'). I am not posting because I feel I deserve a barnstar or some self-serving purpose like that, but because "many hands make light work." If everyone made an active effort to find articles that needed fixing (I suggest my method of going line by line through the categories, but any method works), then 99.9% of all comic articles would be fixed in nearly no time at all. Everyone would just have to make sure they follow the template that has been established. I also suggest this as it will help the WikiProject Comics look better, because the comics section of Wikipedia will look better and more cohesive if we fix the headings so that they are consistent across the board. Freak104 19:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
As a heads-up to everybody, I've been going through Category:Non-free comic images scanning for lacking fair use justifications and other problems. I'm trying to go at a reasonable pace through the category so that other people from the project can follow me and add/improve justifications when needed. I'm creating User:Phil Sandifer/Last image looked at with where I am in the list. If you watchlist that, you'll know when I've looked at more images. If I'm going too fast and you guys want more time to sort through things, let me know and I'll take a day or two off. Phil Sandifer 13:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Based on what I've seen in the guidelines for non-free image usage, do we have a solid guideline or consensus on using commissioned artwork depicting characters under copyright and/or trademark, but not commissioned or used by the (c)/TM holder?
I've seen two good examples of this:
I'm not sure if it's good practice to use these at all, and I think it's a really bad idea to use them as primary images for articles.
Thoughts and comments?
- J Greb 02:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) It's not like normal images are hard to come by. May as well be safe and get rid of them. - Peregrine Fisher 17:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just had a discussion on the Wikipedia:Non-free content page with some more knowledgable editors, and it seems that all the images from the Fleischer studios cartoon series of Superman are now considered public domain. Thought you all would want to know. John Carter 18:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There has been a few issues concerning linking to other wikis and I know Tenebrae has been catching some flak over this and I think it'd be best to try and resolve the matter to reduce the amount of work adding/removing links and any bad feeling this might generate. Now I know there have been various secondary issues (like conflicts of interest) but I feel the core of the issue is:
WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided #13 states we should avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."
Which justifies their removal. The problem is that it seems a bit vague. I've had a quick chat with J Greb and feel it is probably deliberately stated like that to allow the use of good quality wikis, while giving editors a guideline they can use to reduce linkspamming.
Of course, this leaves us with the question of what the exceptions to that guideline and if left up to individual editor's opinions it seems to be an invitation to an edit war with no good weighting either for or against a specific wikis inclusion. These seems like A Bad Thing as there are good wikis that would be useful as an external link and this issue will get to be a big one as changes to WP:FICT mean we'll probably be transwiking material to specific wikis and we'd want to be able to provide a link to somewhere with more detailed coverage.
So the solution seems to be that we discuss the various wikis and reach a consensus about the ones that would seem to be useful to the project so we can provide a basic level of approval as an external link (although the link still needs to conform to broader guidelines - if a specific entry doesn't provide anything more than we have hear then that specific link is redundant).
So the wikis causing issues are:
Given recent disputes I have had a chance to check all of those and feel they are all solid and can qualify as potential external links. ( Emperor 15:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC))
(unindent)
A couple of things...
I can see part of Tenebrae's point. The manual of style for Wiki is clear that we aren't supposed to be putting full transcripts of comics or shows in a Wiki article (I know, there are television episode articles with that level of detail and we are having constant arguments on this point with the story arc articles). But that threshold varies with other sites. As it stands, the three wikia we're talking about, especially with the pages involved, do go farther than Wiki, but not to the point of it being blow-by-blow, line-by-line. If it were, or is the links were to archives of fully scanned books and/or rips of full animated episodes, I could see it being shot down immediately. That isn't the case here.
As for the potential of edit warring over the links, that isn't much different than the edit warring over anything else on Wiki. It's a case where AGF should come in. For myself if it's an isolated add, and I don't recognize the editor as having had problems in the past or and annom, I'd let it go unless I know for a fact that the linked page is a problem. If it some thing that I see multiple editors adding a bad page back in, I'd make the link into a note, with an additional explanation as to why the link has been killed. Beyond that, we get into the problem of linkspamming. - J Greb 18:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems like these wikis would be allowed under WP:EL to me. How long has each been around? Probably about as long as wikia, which people seem to think is OK, because of the Jimbo connection. The DC one is wikia's featured wiki right now, kind of like a FA. If an exceptio can't be made for that kind of wiki, which kind can it be made for. The marvel ones main page has been around a couple years, the DC one is a bit younger. Wikis in general aren't that old, so I believe were looking at 2 (don't know DCAU) of the more stable and substantially edited wikis. I believe they do have some copyright issues, but so do we. I would say don't link to any page that has a copyright violation on it. I don't think that would be too hard to police. People are usually reasonable about copy vio stuff. I would say if we can link to any wikia wikis, then we can link to these two. - Peregrine Fisher 06:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Guys, my head's starting to hurt on this a bit.
Tenebrae I need you to clearly state you opinion on this. Right now, the way I'm reading this, it looks like you are equating the "External links" section with sources used to support text in the articles as citations. Am I reading this correctly? - J Greb 08:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
My apologies for my apparently unfortunate phrasing. Let me be more elaborate.
The "no wikis" rule in EL was actually only debated and added by about a half-dozen people, and sought little imput from the wider community. It is a very poor bit of guideline, in that it flies in the face of the whole point of the m:Interwiki map, which is the system that lets us do things like wikilinks to Wiktionary or Meta - or also Wikia, and also is done so that the links don't have a nofollow tag, which amounts to using Wikipedia's considerable heft to actively promote these sites.
So on the one-hand we have a developer-created initiative to make linking to other wikis both easier and more effective, and on the other we have a single line of a guideline that got minimal consideration. Situations like this are why guidelines are explicitly allowed to be broken - the "no wikis" bit of EL really is an eminently ignorable bit of cruft. Especially because Template:FreeContentMeta - a template that creates a sister-project-like box link for other wikis - has survived TfD more recently than that deletion debate took place, indicating a clear lack of consensus for the policy of "don't link to other wikis." Certainly we should be careful about these links, and make sure we are using them in ways that benefit the articles - preferably by pointing to articles that expand on things we are unlikely to cover in our article (like detailed plot summaries). But if there is a clear benefit for doing it, the caution in WP:EL should not be considered a serious problem with doing it. Phil Sandifer 13:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Sigh. The more I read this the more I feel like evoking WP:IGNORE. Seriously, what's the fuss all about? If these wikias have good articles and can provide extra insight that Wiki can't per all its rules and constrictions, then why linger on this rather elusive suggestion of "avoiding links to open wikis". If a page here can benefit from having an EL to another wiki, then add it.
I think we are sidetracking here. The point of this discussion is to decide if any of the aforementioned Wikias should not be linked to, merely because they are open wikis. The only thing that we should be asking is:
If there's no BIG reason to avoid these links then this discussion is pretty superfluous. I don't want to sound harsh, but so far no one provided any reason beyond "WP:EL says we should avoid linking to open wikis" or "it can lead to linkspamming". Lots of things in WP:EL lead to linkspamming.
I agree with Phil Sandifer when he expressed his discontent to point 13. Saying we should avoid links to open wikis is a very obscure and generalized guideline. But I also agree that we shouldn't ignore it only because we don't like it. We can either get back on track with this discussion or go to WP:EL and propose a policy review to remove or clarify that "open wikis bar." -- PicketyFence 21:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
[Reply to PicketyFence 16:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)] You know very well, as I explained to you on your talk page, that after working on dozens on pages I missed two links. I find it curious that you knowingly act as if I did not explain that to you — and, also, that you didn't answer my conflict-of-interest question.
"Don't try to restrict allowed links to circumvent misunderstandings"? We need to do everything we can, as encyclopedia editors, to circumvent misunderstandings. — Tenebrae 16:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Given the fact a consensus seems to be emerging above I thought it worth looking into drawing up an outline for improved guidelines. I see Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/editorial guidelines has a section for wikis that seems inadequate in light of the above. I'd suggest pulling the section on the use of promotional materials under a larger section on dealing with sources and have something on wikis in there with is.
Wikis are not considered suitable for use as reliable sources but may be suitable for use as an external link. However, there are also restrictions on their use:
WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided #13 states we should avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."
To satisfy this guideline we have looked at the various relevant wikis and come to a consensus decision [85] that the following are suitable for use as external links:
Caveats: However, this isn't a green light for indiscriminate linking:
If anyone wants to add (or remove) a wiki from the above list then start a discussion on the Comics Project talk page and reacj a consensus.
So thoughts? That is just a distillation of thoughts and ideas (so I can't claim credit for it ;) J Greb's points in particular were very helpful) but it is all up for discussion. ( Emperor 18:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC))
"If there are no references, to avoid giving the impression that the wiki link is the source, add references as well a wiki link. Otherwise, add a "References" section tagged with {{sources}} as a visual indication that the article is lacking references and supplying them should be a priority for other editors."
-- PicketyFence 15:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
As a side note: Looking at the existing templates, both {{ dcauw}} and {{ DCDP}}, and the recently deleted MDP one, I honestly think it's a bad idea to link directly to the wikia homepages. The DCDP link to the article on the project seems good though. - J Greb 16:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
What do you guys think of these? I've found and removed lots of links to Supermanica for not satisfying the criteria in WP:EL, but I also found a considerable sum of good articles. As for The Smallville Wiki, it seems like a good in-universe external resource for further reading. Most Superman articles have references to this show, just like the DCAU, so I think this could be a good EL for interested readers, and maybe a good way to trim down fancruft here. -- PicketyFence 12:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
All three characters appeared in Nick Fury's Howling Commandos. That series was cancelled after six issues due to it selling really badly and it doesn't seem likely that any will appear again anytime soon. The articles are stubs and what is written there is really all there is to the characters.
I was going to start merge discussions for all three. Should I even bother or should I just change them into redirects? Stephen Day 22:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Please be wary of edits by User:Apostrophe. He is singular of mind and purpose, and is attempting to drastically change many DC related articles with his near- Nazi view of NOR and Fair use. I've encouraged him to work with the Project. -- CmdrClow 23:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Stop me if you've heard this one before, but the Marvel stubs are Officially Oversized again, most of them characters. I've proposed at least that as a fresh stub type, and possibly by sort-of-character, too. Please comment there. Alai 04:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Here: can anyone answer to this question, please? -- Superchilum( talk to me!) 21:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I notice Viltrumite has been PRODed and I notice there is a lot of Invincible (comics) entries: Category:Invincible (comic). They nearly all seem to lack references and I wonder about the need for so many entries on characters who appear in just the one series. Would it be worth floating the idea of a "List of characters in Invincible" article?
This is also related to the section above in which there are a lot of minor character entries. So thoughts? ( Emperor 21:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC))
Don't know if this is the right place to put this, but wanted to let you know I fixed a typo. How it read: Francisco had grown tired f watching criminals who preyed on the innocent. What I changed it to: Francisco had grown tired of watching criminals who preyed on the innocent. 72.79.77.80 02:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
List of government agencies in comics has been tagged as violating copyright but the source (and the actual complaint) are unclear. I've asked for clarification but could do with some extra sets of eyes on this (as it is a serious issue if true and needs resolving asap). ( Emperor 16:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC))
User:Bltpdx edited Peregrine (comics), Blazing Skull, and Frog-Man to imply that they had been killed by the Hulk recently. I tried to look up more info on this online but didn't see anything. BOZ 23:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
This has been tagged for speedy deletion due to copyright violation: Steven Cook. I've explained my reasons for hanging on but would appreciate some extra input on whether that is reasonable or whether it should be speedied. ( Emperor 02:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC))
Noting this dispute, I restored the article and its talk page, but plastered a possible copyvio notice over it. Doing it that way gives at least a week to discuss rather than marking it for speedy deletion. Technically a discussion should also be posted on the copyright problems page (see top of copyvio template on the article), but I'll leave it to those involved to follow through how they best see fit. Cheers, Postdlf 20:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Another image question...
Is there any guidelines about the inclusion of cosplay images? I'm asking since Image:AN Liana K 1.jpg was just added to Power Girl as a free use image.
- J Greb 18:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
(Cross-posted to Talk:Nasty Boys)
Okay, I've just uncovered something really disturbing. On the Nasty Boys article, the names of the Nasty Boys were originally given as:
Those names match the names I had for them in my own private notes (though I unfortunately neglected to record the comic book and issue number they came from), and I believe those names are correct.
Because the Nasty Boys are not exactly A-list characters, their real names are not well-known and seldom ever referenced in the comics.
Now, on September 23, 2006, User:201.239.238.20 made the following edit [87], changing the names to:
Now, User:201.239.238.20 (whose last edit was on December 1, 2006, nearly a year ago) has a history of subtle name vandalism: see, for instance, [88] and [89]. This was discussed on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics/Archive_22#Bogus_names... about a year ago, and he was warned about it on User talk:201.239.238.20, but he apparently never responded. This user has also caused other trouble (mass categorization and mass edits---just check his history---without seeking approval beforehand, and which resulted in controversy; also, it has been suggested [90] that this user is the same user as User:201, a sockpuppet of the permanently banned User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow).
As for these specific changes to the Nasty Boys' names, I have been unable to find any supporting evidence in any canon comics or on the web except for sources that depended on Wikipedia, and on (here's the really worrisome part):
Here's my worry. I think what happened was that this anon user changed the Nasty Boys entry. Then, the writer or writers of this particular entry in The Official Handbook did his research through Wikipedia, and thus put this incorrect non-canon information into print. The existence of this printed Handbook, as well as the continued presense of the information on the Wikipedia article (I just today removed it from the Nasty Boys Wikipedia article, after the information had been on there for a year) has led to this information being copied by other websites and sources of information, resulting in continued and spreading propagation of misinformation.
Now the best case scenario is that the name information added by User:201.239.238.20 is legitimate. Indeed, I hope this is the case, and if anyone can find a canon comic book issue where the Nasty Boys' names are given as such, then that would be great and put my worries to rest. :)
Unfortunately, I fear this is not the case. In that case, ALL of User:201.239.238.20's edits need to be checked one-by-one for subtle vandalism, which is unfortunately extremely time-consuming because he has made literally thousands of edits, doing hundreds of edits in a row on a very rapid basis, almost never using any edit summaries.
Maybe someone who knows how can contact Marvel Comics or The Official Handbook about this and ask for a canon source for the information--and if no source can be found, then a correction should be issued in the next edition of The Handbook.
— Lowellian ( reply) 19:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll also note that on the individual articles for the members of the Nasty Boys, Gorgeous George (comics)'s name was changed [91] by User:Nyssane on September 22; Ramrod (comics)'s name was changed [92] by User:201.239.238.20 on September 29, 2006; Ruckus (comics)'s name was changed [93] by User:Nyssane on September 22, 2006; and Slab (comics)'s name was changed [94] by User:Nyssane on September 23, 2006. Note also that if you view the page histories of Gorgeous George (comics) and Slab (comics), User:Nyssane's edits are, in both cases, exactly sandwiched between User:201.239.238.20's edits.
— Lowellian ( reply) 20:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I just found a couple of primary sources. In both X-Factor vol. 1 #77 (April 1992) and X-Men vol. 2 #15 (December 1992), Slab's name is given as "Kris" (that exact spelling) and he is clearly shown to be Thumbelina's brother; Thumbelina's last name is "Anderson", so Slab is then presumably "Kris Anderson", which is what the article gave BEFORE the anon changed it to "Christopher Anderson", which matches The Official Handbook. — Lowellian ( reply) 21:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the difference between "Kris" and "Christopher" is small---but the difference between "Warren Anderson" and "Michael Suggs" (Hairbag) is large, as is the difference between "Charles Grovemont" and "Patrick Mahony" (Ramrod). Also, where did the names "George Blair" and "Clement Wilson" come from?
Also, The Official Handbook in itself is not canon, with entries also being contributed by independent, non-in-house researchers. It is supposed to be a compilation of information from the comics themselves, which are the only canon. The Official Handbook does issue corrections to previous issues of The Official Handbook from time to time. If there's information that doesn't exist in the comics that mysteriously appears in The Official Handbook, the canonicity is doubtful.
Also, just to complicate things further, I just realized that the anon's edits DON'T quite match The Official Handbook. The Official Handbook gives Hairbag's name as "Shaun Suggs", but the anon gave Hairbag's name as "Michael Suggs" (and both of those entries don't match the original of "Warren Anderson").
— Lowellian ( reply) 22:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I am one of the Marvel Handbook writers, and I wish to correct some misconceptions on this page. See the related Nasty Boys Talk page for a way of corroborating my identity. The Official Handbook is canon - right from the very first version in the 1980s it has been both resource and occasional source, and the mission statement given by Mark Gruenwald all those years ago notes that it can "fill in the gaps" on character backgrounds, and everything in the Handbook goes through a rigorous editorial approval process. "entries also being contributed by independent, non-in-house researchers" - we are commissioned by Marvel to write the Handbooks, we are under their editorial control and are contracted Marvel freelance writers - which means we are "independent, non-in-house" in the same way that the vast majority of those writing the regular comics are. We do issue corrections, yes, because no one is infallible. However that does not make the information as a whole invalid. "If there's information that doesn't exist in the comics that mysteriously appears in The Official Handbook, the canonicity is doubtful." - if a Handbook writer wishes to add new information, such as providing a real name for a character, or explaining how they got from A (where they were last seen) to B (a radically different place where they are next seen), then we try to go to the original writer to ask them to fill in the blank, (and we specifically highlight the information so that both our editors and Tom Brevoort are aware it is new and either ratify it or remove it. Hence the canonicity is not doubtful. It is canon. With specific regards to the Nasty Boys' names, that was new information, editorially approved. I don't mind either way if Wikipedia wishes to include it or not (my reason for writing was to clarify about the Handbooks status overall), but if you feel that its appearing first in a Handbook is a problem, then you will need to edit several other entries to remove information first supplied in a Handbook, such as Bushwacker's full name. With regards to Mammomax being Maximus Jensen, that name was first supplied in a Wizard article by the character's writer; we checked with Marvel, and they confirmed that despite the unusual place where it first appeared, it is considered the character's real name. With regards to the Wikipedia Nasty Boys article however, I do not believe it was one of the Handbook writers who edited it. And for the record, as my final comment, we do not use online sites for our information or research, and we NEVER use Wikipedia. Stuart Vandal, 84.9.65.76 11:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The e-mail address to corroborate this is given here, on Marvel's official site: http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:FAQ I won't give the e-mail here, as that wouldn't prove I was giving a genuine e-mail ratified by Marvel. 84.9.65.76 16:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Before I do a generalized peer review, and definitely before the GA process, I would like to get some feedback from this project. I just recently expanded this page from a paragraph. Tell me what you think.
I would also like it if someone could possibly expand the lead paragraph. I'm horrible at summarizing stuff! -- Ghostexorcist 23:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have made the specified changes. In addition, I have officially opened a peer review on the page and would like to push it to the GA candidate page within the next couple of weeks. -- Ghostexorcist 08:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The section on Jack Monroe consists of a merged Publication History and Fictional Character Background. Doesn't the current format call for a separation of those two items? Would anyone care to champion such a task? 24.136.11.57 04:12, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
There are three articles on small comics studios that seem to be suffering accusation of hype and censorship/revisionism (see the talk pages):
There also seem to be a number of editors who have only edited those entries (and related ones - often to link into those) and some of them appear to have clear connections with one or more of them (including what appears to be some degree of friction between at a couple of them). I'm still trying to tease it all out but as some of the issues also include controversial areas like creator non-payment (Alias) they need watching to make sure one side or the other doesn't try and skew the overview. Might just be a storm in a tea cup but it might need so attention from the Project to make sure there is a steady hand on the tiller. ( Emperor 15:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC))
Could someone with access to the Amalgam book published by DC and Marvel check something for me?
I'm looking for how the indencia boilerplate spells out ownership of the blended characters.
Thenks - J Greb 20:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Could members of this wikiproject work on finding at least one reference for the following comic related articles?
Thanks for your time-- BirgitteSB 20:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into these. It one of those subjects that I have trouble knowing where to find a good reference.-- BirgitteSB 13:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I found some more:
-- BirgitteSB 21:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
FYI: I just discovered how the "Earth-Two" concept came about [95]. Rather obvious now that I think about it. This can be used as a source in a number of articles. WesleyDodds 11:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Definitely some overlap of subject matter, though it (apparently) wasn't intended to be comic book-specific. Postdlf 17:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed the bulk of Alterna Comics as it was a straight life from their site (which probably suggests it was done by them but still...) but would appreciate a double check on what I did as it may be I took out too much (I did err on the side of caution) or not enough (I didn't check everything against every page they have just the most obvious examples). I also tagged their only comic for notability: Mr. Puffinopolus by Christopher Petty but din't check it. I did note the page was started and has largely been edited by Pettyproductions which seems to suggest COI issues may arise and the entry needs careful checking. ( Emperor 14:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC))
Not worth creating another section but User talk:70.96.128.8 is a Dark Horse Comics IP and it has been dropping in materila straight from the site and adding non-neutral material to entries like Mike Richardson (publisher) (see talk page for removed material) and has been removing things like the clean-up and advert tags. So one to keep an eye on. ( Emperor 22:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC))
Another one (and also going back to previous topics discussed): DC Database Project. I'm also unsure if it meets WP:WEB. ( Emperor 21:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC))
What's up with these two? They appear to be virtually the same article, and probably need to be largely rewritten or scrapped. 204.153.84.10 14:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll create in my sandbox if people want to work on it - I don't have a lot of time at the moment but it's a start. -- Fredrick day 13:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I noticed the above image was up for deletion. Now I won't claim to know the specifics of this image, but in reading over the page I was wondering: If comic book publications have fallen into the public domain (for whatever reasons) which tag is appropriate? I don't get much involved with images, but I'm sure other editors do. Anyway, thanks in advance for your thoughts. - jc37 12:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)