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Vital Articles | ||||
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The purpose of this discussion page is to select 1000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles. All Wikipedia editors are welcome to participate. Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting. When the list is full, it is highly recommended that a nomination of a new topic be accompanied by a proposal to remove a lower-priority topic already on the list. Please see the table to the right (on desktop) or above (on mobile) describing the percentage of articles as FA, GA, etc. for a history of the list.
All discussions will remain open for a minimum of 15 days.
Nominations should generally be left open beyond the above-listed minimums if they have a reasonable chance of passing. Please be patient with our process. We believe that an informed discussion with more editors is likely to produce an improved and more stable final list. When proposing to add or remove a particular topic from the vital articles list, we strongly recommend that you review and compare the other topics in the same category in order to get a better sense of what is considered vital in that area.
This is a key feature of most modern societies. It covers things like High-speed rail, Ferry, Rapid transit, and Bus. Not sure what to swap it with since it would be one over quota, but looking forward to your opinions. Interstellarity ( talk) 02:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I know that there have been RfMs on moving this page to Vital Article Level 3 (which have failed), but I think the issue is that in the absence of a proper Vital Article landing page, this was the best fit, which makes sense.
However, I do find the Vital Article Project at times confusing to engage with and navigate, and the RfC above on the top icon shows that wider members of the Wikipedia community have chequered views of the VA Project.
I think there should be a proper VA landing page that explains the project, it's guidelines (e.g. can a redlink be nominated, must an article start at Level 5 before going higher etc.). There is a lot of good work being done here (and as the academic paper above highlights), but it is very easy to miss it (and even dismiss it, per above). Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Why is Hatshepsut V3? She is just your above-average pharaoh. But hey, there's a perfectly good swap: Cleopatra, a much more famous female pharaoh. 81 interwikis vs 145, 1.5k daily views vs nearly 150k! (yes, check yourself, maybe there's some data error?). Cleopatra has List of cultural depictions of Cleopatra and many more entries in Category:Cultural depictions of Cleopatra vs Category:Cultural depictions of Hatshepsut. Sems like a no brainer here.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Re data error: Hey Google. J 947 ‡ edits 02:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Fathers of sociology include Weber, Marx (who is alrady V3 and is considered also one of the fathers of economics and political sciences...), Émile Durkheim 4 or Auguste Comte 4. One of those other 3 should be V3 as well, within Philosophers and social scientists. Probably Weber (128 interwikis, ~1,6k daily views). Durkheim has 98 interwikis and ~900 views, Comte 93 and ~700 views. Weber has more interwikis and views than V3 Mary Wollstonecraft (98, ~1,5k), or from scientists, Antoine Lavoisier (102, ~1,2), not that I am suggesting a swap this time (but if I were, those would be my 'less vital' candidates). Anyway, from the lead of Weber: he "is regarded as among the most important theorists of the development of modern Western society. He was one of the central figures in the development of sociology and the social sciences, and his ideas profoundly influence social theory and research... [he] is commonly regarded as one of the central figures in the development of the social sciences." -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to propose, at all five levels of VA, that if a proposal reaches consensus, you can't make a counterproposal against that for at least six months. For example, if consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. If consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. Etc. etc. swaps are a little more complicated though p b p 01:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
This is self-explanatory, these articles are listed in this section on all other levels. Vileplume ( talk) 20:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
We already list Telephone at this level which should cover all phones. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:08, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Although we do list News 3, I think this is a key concept for level 3 which I believe is as vital as Broadcasting 3 and Publishing 3. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:14, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Geography is rightfully a level 2 vital article, but physical geography, human geography, and technical geography are high level categories that should be higher up. Physical and human geography are both level 5 vital, and technical geography is newer and not included at all. Many concepts that are within these three subdisciplines, and it is odd for Map to be level 3, cartography to be level 4, boarder being level 4, Mercator projection is level 4, and equator being level 4, but human, physical, and technical geography are lower. I'd suggest that each of these three should be level 3 or 4. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 03:02, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
For example, Astronomy 2 includes child articles with the same level: Solar System 2, Sun 2, Moon 2. Sun and Moon are also the child articles of Solar System. Earth 1 is even higher up. I agree with all those classifications. Can we also move Climate change 3 to level 2, same level with Climate 2? Both climate and climate change can also be considered child articles of Earth, Life 1 etc Bogazicili ( talk) 23:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
The Blue Rider, Thi, The ed17, FYI, I created a proper proposal topic below. Bogazicili ( talk) 21:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Per above discussion (sorry hadn't done the proper proposal format in previous topic) Bogazicili ( talk) 21:01, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
@ GeogSage: Sea has 5,894 incoming wiki links [5], whereas Climate change has 26,138 [6]. I don't understand the "too specific" argument. Sea also has much lower page views [7]. In fact, climate change seems to have most page views (especially recently) compared to the aforementioned articles ( Sea 2, Food 2, Energy 2) [8] Bogazicili ( talk) 22:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Peter is one of the key rulers that changed Russia totally. There is even such expression "pre-Petrine Russia", there is no such expression as "pre-Catherinian Russia". Russian history is clearly divided into before (with the boyars, without any schools, without navy) and after Peter (with Governing Senate, with Academy of Sciences, with a big navy). His importance cannot be overstated. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the first time I've ever participated in this project, so perhaps my understanding is mistaken, but in the discussion swapping Hatshepsut for Cleopatra (began January 24), there were five supports for adding Cleopatra, so she was correctly added, but Hatshepsut's removal only had 4 supports and a neutral, so she should have also stayed, by my understanding of the rules. Is this correct? Ladtrack ( talk) 08:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Per recently closed discussion above, I am proposing this swap since Smartphones are ubiquitous to modern life nowadays. Interstellarity ( talk) 19:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Within the "Food and drink" section on level 3, there are several staple foods and crops, such as Salt, Spice, meat, fruit, and vegetable as well as the staple cereal crops of maize wheat and rice, and crops like potato and soy bean. Milk is listed under beverages.
Bread and cheese stand out as the only two prepared food items within this list. These two are also very Euro-centric, should we add " noodle" or " tofu"? If we are going by significance, " beer" should be listed under " alcoholic beverage," as it is the third most popular beverage after water and tea, and possibly older then "bread" and "cheese."
Bread and cheese are significant, but they are out of place in the list and open the door to the questions of why we include those but not others. Removing them would open space for other pages. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 05:01, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Support
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
At V3 in Artists we have 6 articles: Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Hokusai, Pablo Picasso and Frida Kahlo. I don't think Kahlo is at the same level as the other 5. A quick look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts/Popular pages suggests van Gogh is more popular, and arguably, more famous, impactful and vital. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
A topic that is definitely vital at this level, since it has been a frequently used word in both daily and science contexts.
Okay, no doubt they are vital, but are they really as vital as History of art 3, which is currently also considered vital at level 3? Besides, there are currently 1002 articles in the list, yet still incomplete as it lacks some articles so vital that should definitely be added (e.g. Egg 4, Analytical chemistry 4 and Lead 4).
Vincent van Gogh is more iconic than Rembrandt. Comparing all pageviews data (back to 2015), van Gogh has more pageviews than all Level 3 artists except Leonardo da Vinci. van Gogh also has more than twice the edits of any of the Level 3 artists, and the second highest number of page watchers behind da Vinci. Meanwhile, Rembrandt has less than 25% of van Gogh's pageviews, and is the least viewed Western artist of Level 3. starship .paint ( RUN) 01:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Piotrus, Aszx5000, Jusdafax, J947, The Blue Rider, and DaGizza: who voted above in Kahlo vs van Gogh. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota, and this is not top rated by the Mathematics Wikiproject. Less than 700 views per day. Seems more suited for V4. starship .paint ( RUN) 07:43, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Discission at VA5 pbp 22:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Hello. I'm soliciting comments on Talk:Mars and the Talk:Solar System to brainstorm about future improvements to the article. Feel free to chip in your ideas. CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 12:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
At the level 4 discussion of History of philosophy, it was suggested to have it as a level 3 vital article. For comparision: Philosophy 1 is level 1, like Science 1 and Mathematics 1. The corresponding history articles of those two fields of inquiry are History of science 2 and History of mathematics 3.
One possible swap could be with History of film 3, since Film 3 itself is just level 3 article, but I confess that my knowledge of vital article swap-practices is rather limited. There is currently a proposal to reduce the level of History of film. Phlsph7 ( talk) 09:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
In the hope of getting more feedback, I'll ping the editors involved in the VA 4 discussion of this article. @ Hanif Al Husaini, LaukkuTheGreit, Kammerer55, Aszx5000, Interstellarity, J947, Piotrus, Nihil novi, and Dawid2009: if you have the time, your input would be appreciated. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
We list its history at V3 ( History of East Asia 3), but not the region itself. It contains over a fifth of the world population and over a quarter of the world GDP. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 12:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Don’t see how a continent/region of 46 million needs its history at a higher level than that of much more important countries, regions, and non-geographical topics. Even two V4 countries ( Uganda and Sudan) have higher populations. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 20:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Its influence on mainstream politics is limited. -- Thi ( talk) 12:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vital articles page. |
|
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
Vital Articles | ||||
|
Please consider reading the frequently asked questions for this page before asking any questions on this talk page. |
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
|
The purpose of this discussion page is to select 1000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles. All Wikipedia editors are welcome to participate. Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting. When the list is full, it is highly recommended that a nomination of a new topic be accompanied by a proposal to remove a lower-priority topic already on the list. Please see the table to the right (on desktop) or above (on mobile) describing the percentage of articles as FA, GA, etc. for a history of the list.
All discussions will remain open for a minimum of 15 days.
Nominations should generally be left open beyond the above-listed minimums if they have a reasonable chance of passing. Please be patient with our process. We believe that an informed discussion with more editors is likely to produce an improved and more stable final list. When proposing to add or remove a particular topic from the vital articles list, we strongly recommend that you review and compare the other topics in the same category in order to get a better sense of what is considered vital in that area.
This is a key feature of most modern societies. It covers things like High-speed rail, Ferry, Rapid transit, and Bus. Not sure what to swap it with since it would be one over quota, but looking forward to your opinions. Interstellarity ( talk) 02:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I know that there have been RfMs on moving this page to Vital Article Level 3 (which have failed), but I think the issue is that in the absence of a proper Vital Article landing page, this was the best fit, which makes sense.
However, I do find the Vital Article Project at times confusing to engage with and navigate, and the RfC above on the top icon shows that wider members of the Wikipedia community have chequered views of the VA Project.
I think there should be a proper VA landing page that explains the project, it's guidelines (e.g. can a redlink be nominated, must an article start at Level 5 before going higher etc.). There is a lot of good work being done here (and as the academic paper above highlights), but it is very easy to miss it (and even dismiss it, per above). Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Why is Hatshepsut V3? She is just your above-average pharaoh. But hey, there's a perfectly good swap: Cleopatra, a much more famous female pharaoh. 81 interwikis vs 145, 1.5k daily views vs nearly 150k! (yes, check yourself, maybe there's some data error?). Cleopatra has List of cultural depictions of Cleopatra and many more entries in Category:Cultural depictions of Cleopatra vs Category:Cultural depictions of Hatshepsut. Sems like a no brainer here.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Re data error: Hey Google. J 947 ‡ edits 02:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Fathers of sociology include Weber, Marx (who is alrady V3 and is considered also one of the fathers of economics and political sciences...), Émile Durkheim 4 or Auguste Comte 4. One of those other 3 should be V3 as well, within Philosophers and social scientists. Probably Weber (128 interwikis, ~1,6k daily views). Durkheim has 98 interwikis and ~900 views, Comte 93 and ~700 views. Weber has more interwikis and views than V3 Mary Wollstonecraft (98, ~1,5k), or from scientists, Antoine Lavoisier (102, ~1,2), not that I am suggesting a swap this time (but if I were, those would be my 'less vital' candidates). Anyway, from the lead of Weber: he "is regarded as among the most important theorists of the development of modern Western society. He was one of the central figures in the development of sociology and the social sciences, and his ideas profoundly influence social theory and research... [he] is commonly regarded as one of the central figures in the development of the social sciences." -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to propose, at all five levels of VA, that if a proposal reaches consensus, you can't make a counterproposal against that for at least six months. For example, if consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. If consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. Etc. etc. swaps are a little more complicated though p b p 01:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
This is self-explanatory, these articles are listed in this section on all other levels. Vileplume ( talk) 20:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
We already list Telephone at this level which should cover all phones. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:08, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Although we do list News 3, I think this is a key concept for level 3 which I believe is as vital as Broadcasting 3 and Publishing 3. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:14, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Geography is rightfully a level 2 vital article, but physical geography, human geography, and technical geography are high level categories that should be higher up. Physical and human geography are both level 5 vital, and technical geography is newer and not included at all. Many concepts that are within these three subdisciplines, and it is odd for Map to be level 3, cartography to be level 4, boarder being level 4, Mercator projection is level 4, and equator being level 4, but human, physical, and technical geography are lower. I'd suggest that each of these three should be level 3 or 4. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 03:02, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
For example, Astronomy 2 includes child articles with the same level: Solar System 2, Sun 2, Moon 2. Sun and Moon are also the child articles of Solar System. Earth 1 is even higher up. I agree with all those classifications. Can we also move Climate change 3 to level 2, same level with Climate 2? Both climate and climate change can also be considered child articles of Earth, Life 1 etc Bogazicili ( talk) 23:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
The Blue Rider, Thi, The ed17, FYI, I created a proper proposal topic below. Bogazicili ( talk) 21:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Per above discussion (sorry hadn't done the proper proposal format in previous topic) Bogazicili ( talk) 21:01, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
@ GeogSage: Sea has 5,894 incoming wiki links [5], whereas Climate change has 26,138 [6]. I don't understand the "too specific" argument. Sea also has much lower page views [7]. In fact, climate change seems to have most page views (especially recently) compared to the aforementioned articles ( Sea 2, Food 2, Energy 2) [8] Bogazicili ( talk) 22:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Peter is one of the key rulers that changed Russia totally. There is even such expression "pre-Petrine Russia", there is no such expression as "pre-Catherinian Russia". Russian history is clearly divided into before (with the boyars, without any schools, without navy) and after Peter (with Governing Senate, with Academy of Sciences, with a big navy). His importance cannot be overstated. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the first time I've ever participated in this project, so perhaps my understanding is mistaken, but in the discussion swapping Hatshepsut for Cleopatra (began January 24), there were five supports for adding Cleopatra, so she was correctly added, but Hatshepsut's removal only had 4 supports and a neutral, so she should have also stayed, by my understanding of the rules. Is this correct? Ladtrack ( talk) 08:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Per recently closed discussion above, I am proposing this swap since Smartphones are ubiquitous to modern life nowadays. Interstellarity ( talk) 19:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Within the "Food and drink" section on level 3, there are several staple foods and crops, such as Salt, Spice, meat, fruit, and vegetable as well as the staple cereal crops of maize wheat and rice, and crops like potato and soy bean. Milk is listed under beverages.
Bread and cheese stand out as the only two prepared food items within this list. These two are also very Euro-centric, should we add " noodle" or " tofu"? If we are going by significance, " beer" should be listed under " alcoholic beverage," as it is the third most popular beverage after water and tea, and possibly older then "bread" and "cheese."
Bread and cheese are significant, but they are out of place in the list and open the door to the questions of why we include those but not others. Removing them would open space for other pages. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 05:01, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Support
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
At V3 in Artists we have 6 articles: Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Hokusai, Pablo Picasso and Frida Kahlo. I don't think Kahlo is at the same level as the other 5. A quick look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts/Popular pages suggests van Gogh is more popular, and arguably, more famous, impactful and vital. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
A topic that is definitely vital at this level, since it has been a frequently used word in both daily and science contexts.
Okay, no doubt they are vital, but are they really as vital as History of art 3, which is currently also considered vital at level 3? Besides, there are currently 1002 articles in the list, yet still incomplete as it lacks some articles so vital that should definitely be added (e.g. Egg 4, Analytical chemistry 4 and Lead 4).
Vincent van Gogh is more iconic than Rembrandt. Comparing all pageviews data (back to 2015), van Gogh has more pageviews than all Level 3 artists except Leonardo da Vinci. van Gogh also has more than twice the edits of any of the Level 3 artists, and the second highest number of page watchers behind da Vinci. Meanwhile, Rembrandt has less than 25% of van Gogh's pageviews, and is the least viewed Western artist of Level 3. starship .paint ( RUN) 01:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Piotrus, Aszx5000, Jusdafax, J947, The Blue Rider, and DaGizza: who voted above in Kahlo vs van Gogh. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota, and this is not top rated by the Mathematics Wikiproject. Less than 700 views per day. Seems more suited for V4. starship .paint ( RUN) 07:43, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Discission at VA5 pbp 22:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Hello. I'm soliciting comments on Talk:Mars and the Talk:Solar System to brainstorm about future improvements to the article. Feel free to chip in your ideas. CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 12:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
At the level 4 discussion of History of philosophy, it was suggested to have it as a level 3 vital article. For comparision: Philosophy 1 is level 1, like Science 1 and Mathematics 1. The corresponding history articles of those two fields of inquiry are History of science 2 and History of mathematics 3.
One possible swap could be with History of film 3, since Film 3 itself is just level 3 article, but I confess that my knowledge of vital article swap-practices is rather limited. There is currently a proposal to reduce the level of History of film. Phlsph7 ( talk) 09:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
In the hope of getting more feedback, I'll ping the editors involved in the VA 4 discussion of this article. @ Hanif Al Husaini, LaukkuTheGreit, Kammerer55, Aszx5000, Interstellarity, J947, Piotrus, Nihil novi, and Dawid2009: if you have the time, your input would be appreciated. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
We list its history at V3 ( History of East Asia 3), but not the region itself. It contains over a fifth of the world population and over a quarter of the world GDP. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 12:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Don’t see how a continent/region of 46 million needs its history at a higher level than that of much more important countries, regions, and non-geographical topics. Even two V4 countries ( Uganda and Sudan) have higher populations. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 20:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Its influence on mainstream politics is limited. -- Thi ( talk) 12:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)