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This page is an Archive of the discussions at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion and covers discussions held roughly between Nov 2004 and ___. (Some in that time period were also archived in Archive2.) As an archive, this is no longer considered a live page. Further discussions or disputes should be made on the current talk page. You may, however, link to or copy old discussions from here as necessary.
Now we have the ability to use commons images it seems sensible to do so. I believe there is going to be an easy way to move images to commons in the future. But in the mean time, I think any images moved manually to commons can safely be deleted here (if they otherwise comply with the speedy criteria - i.e. the moved image is exactly the same as the image to be deleted). Thoughts? -- sannse (talk) 17:19, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It's way too soon to do this. Problems include:
Personally, I'm not keen on causing every reuser to infringe the license of every GFDL image from Commons. We cause reusers to do that every time a non-PD Commons image is used today and for that reason I'd personally choose to upload an image from Commons here, copying all of the details including the copyright date and original uploader details. Not really ideal, but at least I know I won't be causing reusers to infringe copyrights. Commons has lots of potential but it is too soon to be deleting things from here because they are there. Worth revisiting the question in six months though - by then Commons support is likely to be significantly better and hopefully most these issues will be gone. It's an area Eloquence and I have been discussing, trying to make sure that we end up with license compliance and effective use of the Commons. Still more to be done, but it'll get there. Jamesday 07:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
How about allowing public domain images uploaded by someone, and uploaded by the same person to commons, to be speedied? Or at least public domain images also created by that user. -- SPUI 23:33, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Is there any update on the commons policy ? In the german wikipedia moved images are speedy-deleted but their image caption/text is restored, why shouldn't it work here ? -- Denniss 00:54, 2005 May 10 (UTC)
From above: A warning when uploading is better than nothing, but only solves the "confusion" part of the problem. If somebody goes ahead despite the warning, the resulting image page on a local wiki should have some indication that an image with the same name exists on the commons. For instance, an interwiki link could be added automatically. That would help dealing with the "vandalism" part. Lupo 10:00, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I would like to propose expanding this idea to include all articles properly transwikied after a VfD resulting in a vote for transwiki. Currently a number of dicdefs which have been moved to Wiktionary are being listed on VfD, and I think this is excessive.-- MikeJ9919 20:39, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
See my formal proposal at Wikipedia:Proposal to expand WP:CSD. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 15:10, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
For convenience, the proposals are:
Jamesday 18:32, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The following cases are proposals only, and until a vote to approve them has been held, they should not be used as reasons for a speedy deletion.
Of course, the Sandbox is exempt from these rules and should not be deleted even though it may satisfy some of the criteria.
I've created Template:isd ("images for speedy deletion") for tagging redundant images that may be speedily deleted according to the current policy. This template adds images to Category:Redundant images, which is a subcategory of CAT:CSD. Perhaps {{isd}} could be listed here and/or on Template:Deletiontools. Any objections? -- MarkSweep 09:28, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It just occured to me that this policy page's name is a bit misleading. Since it does not actually list out the candidates but just documents the policy. How about renaming to Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion? It'll still be "WP:CSD". -- Netoholic @ 18:54, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
Seems like a long-overdue change. You're quite right - the old name was misleading, and this one is more accurate. →Raul654 05:33, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
This has bothered me since it was added:
and I finally decided to remove it for talk. My issue is that a page linking to an article should not have to provide context. An article should be able to stand on it's own to enough degree that the reader can tell what it is about. History of Elbonia doesn't need to include all of the information in the Elbonia article, but it should be be possible to tell that History of Elbonia is about Elbonia and not just a timeline of seemingly random events. — Ben Brockert (42) UE News 03:07, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
I would argue that dictionary defintions are SD material if they are already duplicated on Wiktionary (thus making it pointless to MOVE the content to Wiktionary). Is there precedence for this, and should there be an explicit case listing this scenario, or is it viewed as falling under one of the pre-existing cases? -- Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:35, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I think we should add, "Any article written in the first person," under the "Articles" section. This doesn't really fall under, "Any article which consists only of attempts to correspond with the person or group named by its title," like articles in the second person would. – flamurai ( t) 03:26, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
I made what I see as a very reasonable copyedit of the items on the page, to rearrange the order of the cases. It's pretty straightforward, but I was reverted. I'm going to restore it because this is a fairly obvious way to delineate the items, and because the person who reverted didn't bother to explain why on this talk page. -- Netoholic @ 06:24, 2005 Feb 18 (UTC)
I think that Netoholic's division between General and Article classes is sound and very helpful. It closes several loopholes that trolls and vandals can exploit. For example, some "WikiLawyers" have asserted in TfD that templates cannot be speedy deleted, because this page does not explicitly mention them. Obviously, when I (or majority of admins) sees Template:I'm GNAA Sollog Willy on Wheels and you suck! or something similar, it gets deleted, no matter what the strict interpretation of CSD rules is. I'm willing to tolerate the inavoidable change in numbering when partitioning the cases to two sets, but the relative ordering within a section should not be changed on a whim. At least not without discussion occurring first. The numbering matters, because several people refer to the cases by number only. If numbers can be replaced by mnemonics, all the better.
In summary, I support the changes made by Netoholic. Obviously I agree with Ambi that he should have raised the issue in talk or in village pump before making such a controversial change. jni 07:49, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought the change was reasonable when I saw it the first time (before the revert war started). A little warning would be nice but we shouldn't abuse people too badly for being bold. I have one requested improvement. Many people (including me) do refer to these by number. It is very convenient, especially when documenting the reason for deletion in that little box on the delete page. The current format will now require me to specify "CSD case General 1" vs "CSD case Article 1". That just seems clumsy. Can we hard-code the numbering instead? I recommend "G1-G7", "A1-A5" and so on. Rossami (talk) 14:48, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Currently, the rule under the "General" section reads: "Reposted content that was deleted according to Wikipedia deletion policy."
It seems that the rearrangement of the sections has lead to some confusion. We need to clear up the conflict between recreated content and "work in progress" pages which are often kept in in User: space with the intent of cleaning up articles and re-submitting them. This practice has been done successfully many times in the past.
I'd like to add to this rule (as a rephrase or a sub-item), something stating that this only applies if the content was recreated in the same namespace. After an article is VfD'd, for example, this rule would allow recreationg in User: space. If a second vote says it should be deleted from User: space, then that stands. This returns this pages intent to the way it was before when the rule refered to "articles" not "pages".
Definitely open to any wording suggestions. -- Netoholic @ 06:44, 2005 Mar 8 (UTC)
Several people asked about the transwiki process and specifically whether the article needs to be submitted for VfD at the end of the transwiki or whether it can be immediately deleted. Please comment at Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion#Deletion at the end of transwiki. Thank you. Rossami (talk) 22:56, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Transwiki is not legal and probably won't be legal until the edit history is copied over cleanly and automatically (like Special:Movepage does within a single wiki). Until this is fixed, nothing should be deleted speedily; even many deletions currently made after listing on IfD are illegal. -- Toby Bartels 21:20, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images/Media, it says
I propose to change "bits" to "pixels". That way a GIF version of a PNG image could be speedy deleted. Also, should we clarify what "scaled-down" means exactly? Like, if you ask MediaWiki to thumbnail the bigger image to the width of the smaller, it produces the same image. (Of course "same" here means "identical", not just "looks the same". In principle one would have to use some program to check. On Linux, pnmpsnr
does the trick.)
dbenbenn |
talk 21:00, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have edited tens of thousands of Wikipedia articles. On many occasions I have created pre-emptive redirects. In some cases their value is very obvious (e.g., I see the someone created a redirect from "complex societies" to "complex society"; I've done the same thing hundreds of times). In other cases the question of their value or its lack is delicate and may require input from experts in the field. An obvious case is a redirect from a misnomer to a correct name. By that of course I do not mean to suggest that misnomers are NEVER appropriate article titles; the question of whether a misnomer is the right title is precisely the kind that may require expert input. The page I protected was nothing but an incitement to wholesale vandalism until I added a conspicuous warning against the "policy" of vandalising pre-emptive redirect pages. I realize some practitioners of that policy were judicious in their application of it, but the statement of the policy did not reflect that at all; it just incited unthinking vandalism. It actually encouraged the use of the word "broken" to refer to any redirect whose target does not exist! That is destructive of Wikipedia's purposes, to say the least.
Here is what I think the policy ought to say:
(The proposal above was from Michael Hardy.)
Such redirects provide no positive value to readers, and cause a reduction in value by causing links to appear as if they actually lead somewhere. If you believe that an article should be at a given title, then make the links point there. -- Cyrius| ✎ 22:19, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The red links problem needs to be viewed as a major bug. If you do not see their obvious value, explain which parts of my arguments for their value are wrong and why -- see above. Michael Hardy 23:43, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think pre-emptive redirects are still useful. The first pre-emptive redirect I created was CAFC. Before I could write a stub for that topic, someone has created a pretty long article. The bottom line: If you find a pre-emptive redirect linked by many articles, do not delete it without any investigation. -- Toytoy 18:45, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
You have not answered my specific points about why certain kinds of pre-emptive redirects are valuable, and you have also neglected the fact that that negative side-effect can be averted by a bug fix.
Eastern Sudanic redirects to Eastern Sudanic languages, which does not yet exist. The value of that is something I would have considered obvious, but I'll explain it. Eastern Sudanic is an abbreviation in standard use for obvious reasons, but the non-abbreviated form is the appropriate article title. The pre-emptive redirect avoids the future creation of two disparate article by authors who cannot work together because they are unaware of each other's work, which would later need to get merged.
Similarly, complex societies redirects to complex society.
And a misnomer sometimes redirects to a correctly named article.
A software bug has been reported, which, if dealt with, will make a red link to appear when a link points to a pre-emptive redirect whose target does not yet exist. Michael Hardy 22:47, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This so called bug does exactly what I'd expect it to do. Have any of the developers acknowledged it is a bug? RJFJR 02:21, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
I've just noticed that my critics and I were both mistaken about what the long-standing policy actually says. What confused us was that the emphasis in the statement of the policy was misleading. Read the paragraph starting with "However" after item #6 at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion. In view of the list of exceptions in the paragraph beginning with "However...", I've revised item 6 at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion in a way that is really just a changed in emphasis and I hope will avoid some rash deletions-without-due-deliberation. It now reads as follows:
Michael Hardy 03:54, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Michael Hardy made
this edit, which I reverted. ALL rules related to speedy deletions, and exceptions, should be part of this page, not referred elsewhere. Michael - make your suggested change here on Talk. --
Netoholic
@ 23:00, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
If a user has accidentally listed a page for speedy deletion how would that user go about undoing his mistake? The page in question is Wikipedia:Once upon a time... Jaberwocky6669 03:37, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
I see that someone has attempted to emphasize that "vanity" and "non-notability" are not criteria for deletion, and there have been two reversions of that statement. I think it's worth pointing out that pages are continually being speedy deleted as vanity, and frankly a lot of them are obviously vanity about completely non-famous people and would just clog up Votes for Deletion.
Kappa 19:14, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Shall the assertion that the subject of an article is "non-notable" be grounds for speedy deletion?
Poll is open. 00:55, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
Support:
Oppose:
Comment A recent data point. Jessamyn West was recently nominated for deletion. And, by the way, I have no problem with the nomination whatsoever. The entire content of the article when nominated "Jessamyn West, AKA the Rarin Librarian. One of Library Journal's Mover & Shakers, West is best known for her 'blog, librarian.net." The question I'm asking is: if non-notability were a CSD, would this article have been at risk for speedy deletion? Because it turns out that a) there is a clearly notable author named Jessamyn West on whom, for some reason, we had no article, and b) on investigation, I'm inclined to think that the activist librarian herself is probably notable, too.
But before wringing hands too much over this possibility, it's worth noting that had the article been speedy deleted it would not have been a epic tragedy. I don't think it would have impeded creation of an article on the Indiana Quaker novelist, and the activist librarian could have been VfUed. Good-faith mistakes and accidents are usually corrected without much dispute or animosity.
But it does show how things can crop up. In the case of "notability," it sometimes takes a certain level of expertise to recognize a person as being notable, and five days and a chance for more than one person to participate in the decision is not a bad thing. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:12, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think some kind of third way is needed. A large proportion of VfD's are due to non-notability, but actually nominating them for deletion is a little convoluted. I sometimes see a vanity article that should be nominated but can't be arsed because of time. A little boiler plate for notabilty deletions would be good. Jackliddle 10:01, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The poll is still open, but it seems that considerable opposition exists to the criterion. The grounds given by Kappa Netoholic for his deletions to policy (deleting the notice that this criterion is not policy
[1]
[2]) were that this criterion is policy. That point appears to be debatable, and during the debate, I suggest it is unwise to take action difficult to reverse on its basis.
As a temporary measure, I restore the deleted notice to this policy page. The poll is still open, and there is always the possibility of a groundswell of support for this criterion, at which time we can figure out What To Do Next. Meanwhile, I ask that the notice remain. — Xiong talk 09:22, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
May I ask please, who is "you", Rossami? Whom do you address? I hope it is not I. I have no stake whatever in criteria for speedies -- maybe Someday, but right now I do not have a dog in the fight. Nothing I created, nothing I've ever touched, is up for speedy, so far as I know -- unless I called for it, and then only on stuff I've created. I don't see how anyone can be more neutral than that.
The reason for the notice is plain: there is not unanimous agreement on the point, and I daresay pages have been nominated for speedy on such invalid grounds. It's common sense to put up signs on sharp curves, where people are liable to run off the road; and it's just being argumentative, at best, to remove such signs.
In any case, I have to ask you to respect the wishes of a 4-to-1 majority. I've already put a certain user on notice for vandalism unrelated to this issue, and this latest stunt of his is going to go right along with the rest. Please don't contribute to his efforts. Let's try to remain rational, and not merely logical. — Xiong talk 06:45, 2005 Apr 5 (UTC)
If I mis-stated the controversy, I apologize. Looking from the outside, it did appear to be a confrontation between User:Xiong and User:Netoholic. To Xiong's other comments:
I'm really not trying to be obnoxious but I feel very strongly about the dangers of instruction creep. Adding these few counter-examples will set a precedent allowing others to add their own favorite counter-example. Then the next person does the same. The process continues on and on until the original list becomes unreadable. The final result becomes less clear than the original version. This has been a plague to many of our policy pages over time.
If this particular danger is demonstrably real, let's post the warning sign. If people are not skidding off the road, though, we should be very conservative about adding text to the policy page. (Okay, I've probably pushed that analogy too far but it was hard to resist.)
Rossami
(talk) 17:23, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Proposal to expand WP:CSD/Proposal IX (Deprecation), a much wider poll specifically about this issue, which failed to gain support at 2 votes to 108. — Korath ( Talk) 19:42, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Ahem... The reason I, with some trepidation, put the "vanity and non notable" reminder on the policy page was simply that a signifcant minority of the speedies I see are for vanity or non-notability. I suspect I am as guilty as the next admin of leaving speedy requests in clearly vanity articles, and there I have a problem with some of the stuff that the policy says we should leave for 5+ days, but I would like to improve the operation of the speedy delete process as is, while discussions continue about better ways of weeding out the dross. There may be better ways, if so, lets hear them.
Rich Farmbrough 22:28, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It seems to me that this entire page is clearly a troll. But I see nothing on criteria for speedy deletion that would allow me to delete it. It seems to me that polls created in the main namespace as trolls should be speedily deleted. Any thoughts? john k 16:21, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think that speedy criterion #A2 should be changed to:
In other words, remove the "Foreign language" requirement, as the criterion was written before Wiktionary, Wikibooks, Wikisource, ect. were started. – AB CD 17:50, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Duplicate images (unless they were just created in error) should be redirected; there is no need ever to delete them.
One of the many, many things that I liked about Wikipedia when I first arrived was that old links would always continue to work. The redirect protocol is fantastic not only for how WP works at any given time; it also means that I safely give a URL reference to a WP article (or more generally to any resource on Wikimedia) in print, confident that the URL will continue to work as long as the Wikimedia Foundation can keep on its feet.
This has been eroded lately, especially (as far as I've noticed) with regard to images moved to Commons. They are getting deleted, on the basis of criterion I1, when they should be changed to redirects. I wouldn't dare cite an image URL in print now!
Criterion I1 should be removed; we should use redirect instead.
-- Toby Bartels 21:32, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
People shouldn't post speedy deletion templates on substubs. Sometimes, a substub can be based off of factual, notable culture that somebody dosen't generate much detail about (e.g. Monika, Angel of Mine, Men in Black (song).
The difference between a stub and a substub is that it has some value. If it shouldn't be deleted, it's not a substub. john k 04:10, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I notice that there are no specific criteria on this page for deletions of templates, but I see several votes for "speedy" on WP:TFD for templates that don't match the general criteria for speedy deletion. For example, there are the templates Template:= and Template:*, which are obviously unnecessary but not really covered under any of the "General" criteria. While these are extreme cases, are there any guidelines we want to set down as to the Criteria for speedily deleting templates? I use this guide frequently when deciding how to process articles in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, and some additional guidelines on how to handle templates would be appreciated. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 03:06, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
Just today I have seen about a dozen templates for storing stubs up for deletion. Often there is no need for them, which is why they're up for deletion anyway. Perhaps the server should auto-tag any new stub templates for speedy deletion consideration before the well-meaning creator goes adding them to 50+ pages? I don't know how well that would work, but considering the small number of stub-storing templates that are actually useful it seems that this would work better. If it could be scripted, I don't know about the technical limitations or anything. Master Thief Garrett 06:28, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Something is wrong with this edit. Either the grammar is confusing me, or the context is escaping me, but I just don't get it. -- Netoholic @ 03:22, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC)
I boldly moved the bolded warning "the appropriateness of this item is disputed" to the end of the sentence because it was too easy to misinterpret. It made the whole thing read as "Redirects can be immediately deleted if they have no useful history and: the appropriateness of this item [what item? the redirect I want to delete?] is disputed." For the same reason, I changed the word "item" to "criterion" to make it more clear that the warning applies to part of the process. FreplySpang (talk) 11:16, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
So, why aren't stale old subpage redirects deleted? SchmuckyTheCat 19:54, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Criterion 8 said "Talk pages of already deleted pages unless the discussion is linked to Wikipedia:Archived delete debates." Now that all delete debates are preserved in vfd/subpages, presuably the "unless" also covers cases where the talk page is linked from the particular vfd/subpage. I have tried to add it but there may be a neater way. -- Henrygb 01:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There have been several cases recently of articles speedied as "reposted content" (detailed in RickK's RFC). One of them has been undeleted, and the redeletion debate resulted in a clear consensus to keep undeleted. The other one is currently on VFU and has a majority for undeletion. There seems to be a consensus that "reposted content" must be largely equivalent to the original, but at least one admin sees things differently and has been speedying new articles with different content because the first article on the subject was deleted. -- SPUI ( talk) 05:05, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was just about to post the following at the village pump when the you have a message came out. ==Recreation of an Vfd'ed article== Is the recreation of an article Voted for deletion, a violation of any polices? Does the Vfd itself extend to the idea of the article? Is the recreation considered a run around to a Vfd? -- Jondel 07:59, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
My own opinion: a deleted article can be speedied when the reposted content (however much it has changed) would have no chance of changing the VfD ruling. For instance, if we decide a certain band isn't notable at all for whatever reason, then no article should exist there and any text there could be speedied on sight (excepting the rare possibilities that new information may indicate that the band is notable, or that it may belong in a new or different article, etc.). Or if an article was deleted because of blah blah blah, and the new text still blah blah blahs, then it can be speedied because the ruling would not change. It's when the article has changed in such a way that the old reasons for deletion might no longer apply that the article should be kept and, if deemed appropriate, go through VfD again. - furrykef ( Talk at me) 11:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In this edit, Netoholic made some minor changes to clarify the wording of one clause of the criteria. Four days later, Firebug reverted the changes saying that the "change to the policy was not discussed on the Talk page". I think this was an over-reaction. I and presumably many other people reviewed Netoholic's edit and found it to be a reasonable clarification. (I believe that I can say "many other people" because so many people have this page on their watchlists - proven by the speed with which true vandalism is reverted.)
I do not think that every miniscule tweak to wording needs to extensively discussed and voted on before changing the page. Policy pages may be held to a little different standard than the average article but this is still a wiki. All users are still encouraged to be bold. Furthermore, after four days the burden of discussion has shifted. Firebug should have brought his/her concerns here, not simply reverted the edit.
Okay, I'm done venting. Since at least one person apparently does consider this edit controversial, let's discuss it. I think it was a minor but reasonable clarification of the policy page in order to update it to the community's current practice. Rossami (talk) 17:48, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
Old version (bold highlights changes to Netoholic's version):
Netoholic's version (bold highlights changes from old version):
Thryduulf's proposed version (bold highlights changes from Netoholic's version):
(note that the above all relate to criterion 2 for redirects. Thryduulf 22:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC))
Recently a rather unusual article popped up at Nederland 1 which appeared to be either a humourless joke or a man's rather pathetic attempt to slander his ex-wife's new husband. It contained an extensive list of unsubstantiated allegations against the man, with all of his personal information. I put it up for deletion right away of course. Someone speedy deleted it, but as far as I can tell we have no specific speedy delete rule for this sort of thing currently. I undeleted it, to wait for its non-speedy death, but it was re-deleted, this time based on the theory that it could get us in legal trouble. See discussion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nederland 1.
Besides asking what we should do in this particular situation, some questions are raised. Should the speedy delete policy be amended for this sort of thing? This case is clear, but I can imagine a case where a stream of slander about a notable person could be NPOVed into a good article. What about other criminal uses of articles, like organizing a robbery, inciting a riot, or committing treason? Deco 09:05, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
There is a bunch of tiny articles which were used as metadata for {{ Election box candidate with party link}} (for example British_National_Party/meta/shortname). As far as I can tell they have all been moved to the template namespace and so they are actually REDIRECTs now, but they are all showing up on Special:Shortpages. Are these candidates for speedy deletion? -- Phil | Talk 09:25, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
It has struck me often that the example for #A1 isn't ideal. if somebody really had created an article for Anthony H. Wilson that said...
...my instinct - and, I think, that of many editors and admins - would be to wikify it and add {{substub}}. This example contains at least two notable and verifiable facts, and is can clearly be expanded to an encylopedia article. This criterion, IMNVHO, was really intended to stop somebody adding and article for, say, Hednesford Town...
Can we change the example on WP:CSD accordingly, so it better matches how things really work? sjorford →•← 09:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
Athough I've noticed that speedying redirects to nonexistent articles is debated, an issue was raised on WP:AN regarding redirects to articles that have gone through VfD. Normally those redirects should be deleted when the main article is, but some admins forget to check for incoming redirects. A number of those redirects have consequently appeared on RfD recently. Could we add those to the list of speedy deletion criteria for redirects? Perhaps something along the lines of
The wording is of course quite open to revision. -- TenOfAllTrades ( talk/ contrib) 23:08, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
This change leads me to believe that all the general reasons that apply to ordinary pages also apply to redirects (i.e. that the reasons for speedying a redirect are a superset of the general criteria). I have therefore modified the text of the redirect section to make this explicit. If not, let's figure it out. Noel (talk) 22:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
This page is not policy! You may like it to be policy, but saying it is policy does not make it so. The page is still in flux; different users are adding and subtracting criteria all the time. It is not appropriate to try to tag a page as "policy" without serious discussion right here in talk.
Pleas do not try to tag this page as policy just because you think so. This is a group; we all have opinions; and concensus is how we set policy.
Thank you. — Xiong 熊 talk * 09:30, 2005 May 18 (UTC)
See Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#Speedy category deletion. It was discussed there (with a link from WP:TFD/talk) and deemed common sense. Avoid duplicate discussions. This isn't strictly speaking a 'speedy' criterion, but more a case of co-nominating a cat and template if they are corresponding, and deleting both if TFD vote passes. R adiant _* 12:44, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
In the lst few weeks I've hd a few articles that I've started, some marked inuse and some marked stub, have people (sub sorters or RC patrol) come in during the middle of the edits and mark it as nonsense, which puts it on track for speedy delete. nonsense is for things like random characters and other real gibberish. an inuse or stub article may contain outlines, silly statements as placeholders, etc, but these things are not random characters. Might I ask what recourse is there for these occurences? SchmuckyTheCat 16:06, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Is it worhtwhile adding to the criteria those instances where an author wishes hisr article deleted ? This would be restricted to instances where no substantive imptrovement has been amde by other suers, as then the article is quasi-public-domain, but would allow the speedying of items entered in a haze and later regretted. -- Simon Cursitor 08:09, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Redirects from the Wikipedia: namespace into someone's userspace seem misleading to me: someone clicks on a link expecting to arrive at a community page and instead ends up at a page owned by one editor. For example, Wikipedia:Schools/Deletion principles poll currently redirects to Neutrality's private poll, User:Neutrality/Survey. Neutrality is only allowing himself to edit this page and is reverting changes made by others. This redirect seems inappropriate to me; I have attempted to remedy the situation, but Neutrality has reverted my edits. Thoughts?
Update: someone else has removed the redirect for now, too. But my question stands: can such a redirect be appropriate? Lupin 04:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
In an effort to alleviate the load on VFD pages, the discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy/Reducing_VfD_load has started. Among others, it discusses the possibility of creating new criteria for speedy deletion. Please give your comments there. R adiant _* 11:24, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
Because many IP addresses are dynamic, and many computers used by more than one person, we cannot assume that anon talk pages contain messages targeted to more than one user. Often, messages to anon users (test warnings especially) hang around for months or more--far past the point when the person who the message was intended for is necessarily the person that is using the IP number now.
This creates a couple problems. First, many people can get confused--if they stumble on an anon with 5 warnings, they might assume it is one persistent vandal, rather than multiple people getting assigned the same dynamic IP. Secondly, the anons themselves often receive "You have new messages", get threatened with vandalism they didn't commit, and are soured on Wikipedia. For both these reasons, I support adding a new criteria to
WP:CSD:
:
Talk pages of users who have not created an account, provided they are not tagged with a template such as
Template:Cambridge IP or some similar note and that there have been no messages left on the talk page for at least a month.
Thoughts? If there are no objections, I'll add it in, but I'd hope for, at the least, tweaking and tuning of the wording.
Meelar
(talk) 16:48, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
The following suggestion for speedy deletion criteria is under discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy/Reducing_VfD_load (please comment there, not here). The idea is that if a certain category of articles is deleted by unanimity VfD, and we can provide a clear wording for it, then it could conceivably be a speedy to save people the work.
R adiant _* 09:08, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
I oppose all proposals for new speedy criteria. Speedy is a bad way to handle most deletions and, by definition, leaves no room for comment. It is an open door to unilateral abuse. Speedy is appropriate in a highly restricted number of types of cases, and only then. Nobody should be editing Csd without extensive discussion and considerable lapse of time. — Xiong 熊 talk * 12:14, 2005 May 27 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
This page is an Archive of the discussions at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion and covers discussions held roughly between Nov 2004 and ___. (Some in that time period were also archived in Archive2.) As an archive, this is no longer considered a live page. Further discussions or disputes should be made on the current talk page. You may, however, link to or copy old discussions from here as necessary.
Now we have the ability to use commons images it seems sensible to do so. I believe there is going to be an easy way to move images to commons in the future. But in the mean time, I think any images moved manually to commons can safely be deleted here (if they otherwise comply with the speedy criteria - i.e. the moved image is exactly the same as the image to be deleted). Thoughts? -- sannse (talk) 17:19, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It's way too soon to do this. Problems include:
Personally, I'm not keen on causing every reuser to infringe the license of every GFDL image from Commons. We cause reusers to do that every time a non-PD Commons image is used today and for that reason I'd personally choose to upload an image from Commons here, copying all of the details including the copyright date and original uploader details. Not really ideal, but at least I know I won't be causing reusers to infringe copyrights. Commons has lots of potential but it is too soon to be deleting things from here because they are there. Worth revisiting the question in six months though - by then Commons support is likely to be significantly better and hopefully most these issues will be gone. It's an area Eloquence and I have been discussing, trying to make sure that we end up with license compliance and effective use of the Commons. Still more to be done, but it'll get there. Jamesday 07:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
How about allowing public domain images uploaded by someone, and uploaded by the same person to commons, to be speedied? Or at least public domain images also created by that user. -- SPUI 23:33, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Is there any update on the commons policy ? In the german wikipedia moved images are speedy-deleted but their image caption/text is restored, why shouldn't it work here ? -- Denniss 00:54, 2005 May 10 (UTC)
From above: A warning when uploading is better than nothing, but only solves the "confusion" part of the problem. If somebody goes ahead despite the warning, the resulting image page on a local wiki should have some indication that an image with the same name exists on the commons. For instance, an interwiki link could be added automatically. That would help dealing with the "vandalism" part. Lupo 10:00, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I would like to propose expanding this idea to include all articles properly transwikied after a VfD resulting in a vote for transwiki. Currently a number of dicdefs which have been moved to Wiktionary are being listed on VfD, and I think this is excessive.-- MikeJ9919 20:39, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
See my formal proposal at Wikipedia:Proposal to expand WP:CSD. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 15:10, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
For convenience, the proposals are:
Jamesday 18:32, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The following cases are proposals only, and until a vote to approve them has been held, they should not be used as reasons for a speedy deletion.
Of course, the Sandbox is exempt from these rules and should not be deleted even though it may satisfy some of the criteria.
I've created Template:isd ("images for speedy deletion") for tagging redundant images that may be speedily deleted according to the current policy. This template adds images to Category:Redundant images, which is a subcategory of CAT:CSD. Perhaps {{isd}} could be listed here and/or on Template:Deletiontools. Any objections? -- MarkSweep 09:28, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It just occured to me that this policy page's name is a bit misleading. Since it does not actually list out the candidates but just documents the policy. How about renaming to Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion? It'll still be "WP:CSD". -- Netoholic @ 18:54, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
Seems like a long-overdue change. You're quite right - the old name was misleading, and this one is more accurate. →Raul654 05:33, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
This has bothered me since it was added:
and I finally decided to remove it for talk. My issue is that a page linking to an article should not have to provide context. An article should be able to stand on it's own to enough degree that the reader can tell what it is about. History of Elbonia doesn't need to include all of the information in the Elbonia article, but it should be be possible to tell that History of Elbonia is about Elbonia and not just a timeline of seemingly random events. — Ben Brockert (42) UE News 03:07, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
I would argue that dictionary defintions are SD material if they are already duplicated on Wiktionary (thus making it pointless to MOVE the content to Wiktionary). Is there precedence for this, and should there be an explicit case listing this scenario, or is it viewed as falling under one of the pre-existing cases? -- Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:35, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I think we should add, "Any article written in the first person," under the "Articles" section. This doesn't really fall under, "Any article which consists only of attempts to correspond with the person or group named by its title," like articles in the second person would. – flamurai ( t) 03:26, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
I made what I see as a very reasonable copyedit of the items on the page, to rearrange the order of the cases. It's pretty straightforward, but I was reverted. I'm going to restore it because this is a fairly obvious way to delineate the items, and because the person who reverted didn't bother to explain why on this talk page. -- Netoholic @ 06:24, 2005 Feb 18 (UTC)
I think that Netoholic's division between General and Article classes is sound and very helpful. It closes several loopholes that trolls and vandals can exploit. For example, some "WikiLawyers" have asserted in TfD that templates cannot be speedy deleted, because this page does not explicitly mention them. Obviously, when I (or majority of admins) sees Template:I'm GNAA Sollog Willy on Wheels and you suck! or something similar, it gets deleted, no matter what the strict interpretation of CSD rules is. I'm willing to tolerate the inavoidable change in numbering when partitioning the cases to two sets, but the relative ordering within a section should not be changed on a whim. At least not without discussion occurring first. The numbering matters, because several people refer to the cases by number only. If numbers can be replaced by mnemonics, all the better.
In summary, I support the changes made by Netoholic. Obviously I agree with Ambi that he should have raised the issue in talk or in village pump before making such a controversial change. jni 07:49, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought the change was reasonable when I saw it the first time (before the revert war started). A little warning would be nice but we shouldn't abuse people too badly for being bold. I have one requested improvement. Many people (including me) do refer to these by number. It is very convenient, especially when documenting the reason for deletion in that little box on the delete page. The current format will now require me to specify "CSD case General 1" vs "CSD case Article 1". That just seems clumsy. Can we hard-code the numbering instead? I recommend "G1-G7", "A1-A5" and so on. Rossami (talk) 14:48, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Currently, the rule under the "General" section reads: "Reposted content that was deleted according to Wikipedia deletion policy."
It seems that the rearrangement of the sections has lead to some confusion. We need to clear up the conflict between recreated content and "work in progress" pages which are often kept in in User: space with the intent of cleaning up articles and re-submitting them. This practice has been done successfully many times in the past.
I'd like to add to this rule (as a rephrase or a sub-item), something stating that this only applies if the content was recreated in the same namespace. After an article is VfD'd, for example, this rule would allow recreationg in User: space. If a second vote says it should be deleted from User: space, then that stands. This returns this pages intent to the way it was before when the rule refered to "articles" not "pages".
Definitely open to any wording suggestions. -- Netoholic @ 06:44, 2005 Mar 8 (UTC)
Several people asked about the transwiki process and specifically whether the article needs to be submitted for VfD at the end of the transwiki or whether it can be immediately deleted. Please comment at Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion#Deletion at the end of transwiki. Thank you. Rossami (talk) 22:56, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Transwiki is not legal and probably won't be legal until the edit history is copied over cleanly and automatically (like Special:Movepage does within a single wiki). Until this is fixed, nothing should be deleted speedily; even many deletions currently made after listing on IfD are illegal. -- Toby Bartels 21:20, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images/Media, it says
I propose to change "bits" to "pixels". That way a GIF version of a PNG image could be speedy deleted. Also, should we clarify what "scaled-down" means exactly? Like, if you ask MediaWiki to thumbnail the bigger image to the width of the smaller, it produces the same image. (Of course "same" here means "identical", not just "looks the same". In principle one would have to use some program to check. On Linux, pnmpsnr
does the trick.)
dbenbenn |
talk 21:00, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have edited tens of thousands of Wikipedia articles. On many occasions I have created pre-emptive redirects. In some cases their value is very obvious (e.g., I see the someone created a redirect from "complex societies" to "complex society"; I've done the same thing hundreds of times). In other cases the question of their value or its lack is delicate and may require input from experts in the field. An obvious case is a redirect from a misnomer to a correct name. By that of course I do not mean to suggest that misnomers are NEVER appropriate article titles; the question of whether a misnomer is the right title is precisely the kind that may require expert input. The page I protected was nothing but an incitement to wholesale vandalism until I added a conspicuous warning against the "policy" of vandalising pre-emptive redirect pages. I realize some practitioners of that policy were judicious in their application of it, but the statement of the policy did not reflect that at all; it just incited unthinking vandalism. It actually encouraged the use of the word "broken" to refer to any redirect whose target does not exist! That is destructive of Wikipedia's purposes, to say the least.
Here is what I think the policy ought to say:
(The proposal above was from Michael Hardy.)
Such redirects provide no positive value to readers, and cause a reduction in value by causing links to appear as if they actually lead somewhere. If you believe that an article should be at a given title, then make the links point there. -- Cyrius| ✎ 22:19, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The red links problem needs to be viewed as a major bug. If you do not see their obvious value, explain which parts of my arguments for their value are wrong and why -- see above. Michael Hardy 23:43, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think pre-emptive redirects are still useful. The first pre-emptive redirect I created was CAFC. Before I could write a stub for that topic, someone has created a pretty long article. The bottom line: If you find a pre-emptive redirect linked by many articles, do not delete it without any investigation. -- Toytoy 18:45, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
You have not answered my specific points about why certain kinds of pre-emptive redirects are valuable, and you have also neglected the fact that that negative side-effect can be averted by a bug fix.
Eastern Sudanic redirects to Eastern Sudanic languages, which does not yet exist. The value of that is something I would have considered obvious, but I'll explain it. Eastern Sudanic is an abbreviation in standard use for obvious reasons, but the non-abbreviated form is the appropriate article title. The pre-emptive redirect avoids the future creation of two disparate article by authors who cannot work together because they are unaware of each other's work, which would later need to get merged.
Similarly, complex societies redirects to complex society.
And a misnomer sometimes redirects to a correctly named article.
A software bug has been reported, which, if dealt with, will make a red link to appear when a link points to a pre-emptive redirect whose target does not yet exist. Michael Hardy 22:47, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This so called bug does exactly what I'd expect it to do. Have any of the developers acknowledged it is a bug? RJFJR 02:21, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
I've just noticed that my critics and I were both mistaken about what the long-standing policy actually says. What confused us was that the emphasis in the statement of the policy was misleading. Read the paragraph starting with "However" after item #6 at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion. In view of the list of exceptions in the paragraph beginning with "However...", I've revised item 6 at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion in a way that is really just a changed in emphasis and I hope will avoid some rash deletions-without-due-deliberation. It now reads as follows:
Michael Hardy 03:54, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Michael Hardy made
this edit, which I reverted. ALL rules related to speedy deletions, and exceptions, should be part of this page, not referred elsewhere. Michael - make your suggested change here on Talk. --
Netoholic
@ 23:00, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
If a user has accidentally listed a page for speedy deletion how would that user go about undoing his mistake? The page in question is Wikipedia:Once upon a time... Jaberwocky6669 03:37, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
I see that someone has attempted to emphasize that "vanity" and "non-notability" are not criteria for deletion, and there have been two reversions of that statement. I think it's worth pointing out that pages are continually being speedy deleted as vanity, and frankly a lot of them are obviously vanity about completely non-famous people and would just clog up Votes for Deletion.
Kappa 19:14, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Shall the assertion that the subject of an article is "non-notable" be grounds for speedy deletion?
Poll is open. 00:55, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
Support:
Oppose:
Comment A recent data point. Jessamyn West was recently nominated for deletion. And, by the way, I have no problem with the nomination whatsoever. The entire content of the article when nominated "Jessamyn West, AKA the Rarin Librarian. One of Library Journal's Mover & Shakers, West is best known for her 'blog, librarian.net." The question I'm asking is: if non-notability were a CSD, would this article have been at risk for speedy deletion? Because it turns out that a) there is a clearly notable author named Jessamyn West on whom, for some reason, we had no article, and b) on investigation, I'm inclined to think that the activist librarian herself is probably notable, too.
But before wringing hands too much over this possibility, it's worth noting that had the article been speedy deleted it would not have been a epic tragedy. I don't think it would have impeded creation of an article on the Indiana Quaker novelist, and the activist librarian could have been VfUed. Good-faith mistakes and accidents are usually corrected without much dispute or animosity.
But it does show how things can crop up. In the case of "notability," it sometimes takes a certain level of expertise to recognize a person as being notable, and five days and a chance for more than one person to participate in the decision is not a bad thing. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:12, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think some kind of third way is needed. A large proportion of VfD's are due to non-notability, but actually nominating them for deletion is a little convoluted. I sometimes see a vanity article that should be nominated but can't be arsed because of time. A little boiler plate for notabilty deletions would be good. Jackliddle 10:01, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The poll is still open, but it seems that considerable opposition exists to the criterion. The grounds given by Kappa Netoholic for his deletions to policy (deleting the notice that this criterion is not policy
[1]
[2]) were that this criterion is policy. That point appears to be debatable, and during the debate, I suggest it is unwise to take action difficult to reverse on its basis.
As a temporary measure, I restore the deleted notice to this policy page. The poll is still open, and there is always the possibility of a groundswell of support for this criterion, at which time we can figure out What To Do Next. Meanwhile, I ask that the notice remain. — Xiong talk 09:22, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
May I ask please, who is "you", Rossami? Whom do you address? I hope it is not I. I have no stake whatever in criteria for speedies -- maybe Someday, but right now I do not have a dog in the fight. Nothing I created, nothing I've ever touched, is up for speedy, so far as I know -- unless I called for it, and then only on stuff I've created. I don't see how anyone can be more neutral than that.
The reason for the notice is plain: there is not unanimous agreement on the point, and I daresay pages have been nominated for speedy on such invalid grounds. It's common sense to put up signs on sharp curves, where people are liable to run off the road; and it's just being argumentative, at best, to remove such signs.
In any case, I have to ask you to respect the wishes of a 4-to-1 majority. I've already put a certain user on notice for vandalism unrelated to this issue, and this latest stunt of his is going to go right along with the rest. Please don't contribute to his efforts. Let's try to remain rational, and not merely logical. — Xiong talk 06:45, 2005 Apr 5 (UTC)
If I mis-stated the controversy, I apologize. Looking from the outside, it did appear to be a confrontation between User:Xiong and User:Netoholic. To Xiong's other comments:
I'm really not trying to be obnoxious but I feel very strongly about the dangers of instruction creep. Adding these few counter-examples will set a precedent allowing others to add their own favorite counter-example. Then the next person does the same. The process continues on and on until the original list becomes unreadable. The final result becomes less clear than the original version. This has been a plague to many of our policy pages over time.
If this particular danger is demonstrably real, let's post the warning sign. If people are not skidding off the road, though, we should be very conservative about adding text to the policy page. (Okay, I've probably pushed that analogy too far but it was hard to resist.)
Rossami
(talk) 17:23, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Proposal to expand WP:CSD/Proposal IX (Deprecation), a much wider poll specifically about this issue, which failed to gain support at 2 votes to 108. — Korath ( Talk) 19:42, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Ahem... The reason I, with some trepidation, put the "vanity and non notable" reminder on the policy page was simply that a signifcant minority of the speedies I see are for vanity or non-notability. I suspect I am as guilty as the next admin of leaving speedy requests in clearly vanity articles, and there I have a problem with some of the stuff that the policy says we should leave for 5+ days, but I would like to improve the operation of the speedy delete process as is, while discussions continue about better ways of weeding out the dross. There may be better ways, if so, lets hear them.
Rich Farmbrough 22:28, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It seems to me that this entire page is clearly a troll. But I see nothing on criteria for speedy deletion that would allow me to delete it. It seems to me that polls created in the main namespace as trolls should be speedily deleted. Any thoughts? john k 16:21, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think that speedy criterion #A2 should be changed to:
In other words, remove the "Foreign language" requirement, as the criterion was written before Wiktionary, Wikibooks, Wikisource, ect. were started. – AB CD 17:50, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Duplicate images (unless they were just created in error) should be redirected; there is no need ever to delete them.
One of the many, many things that I liked about Wikipedia when I first arrived was that old links would always continue to work. The redirect protocol is fantastic not only for how WP works at any given time; it also means that I safely give a URL reference to a WP article (or more generally to any resource on Wikimedia) in print, confident that the URL will continue to work as long as the Wikimedia Foundation can keep on its feet.
This has been eroded lately, especially (as far as I've noticed) with regard to images moved to Commons. They are getting deleted, on the basis of criterion I1, when they should be changed to redirects. I wouldn't dare cite an image URL in print now!
Criterion I1 should be removed; we should use redirect instead.
-- Toby Bartels 21:32, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
People shouldn't post speedy deletion templates on substubs. Sometimes, a substub can be based off of factual, notable culture that somebody dosen't generate much detail about (e.g. Monika, Angel of Mine, Men in Black (song).
The difference between a stub and a substub is that it has some value. If it shouldn't be deleted, it's not a substub. john k 04:10, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I notice that there are no specific criteria on this page for deletions of templates, but I see several votes for "speedy" on WP:TFD for templates that don't match the general criteria for speedy deletion. For example, there are the templates Template:= and Template:*, which are obviously unnecessary but not really covered under any of the "General" criteria. While these are extreme cases, are there any guidelines we want to set down as to the Criteria for speedily deleting templates? I use this guide frequently when deciding how to process articles in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, and some additional guidelines on how to handle templates would be appreciated. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 03:06, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
Just today I have seen about a dozen templates for storing stubs up for deletion. Often there is no need for them, which is why they're up for deletion anyway. Perhaps the server should auto-tag any new stub templates for speedy deletion consideration before the well-meaning creator goes adding them to 50+ pages? I don't know how well that would work, but considering the small number of stub-storing templates that are actually useful it seems that this would work better. If it could be scripted, I don't know about the technical limitations or anything. Master Thief Garrett 06:28, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Something is wrong with this edit. Either the grammar is confusing me, or the context is escaping me, but I just don't get it. -- Netoholic @ 03:22, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC)
I boldly moved the bolded warning "the appropriateness of this item is disputed" to the end of the sentence because it was too easy to misinterpret. It made the whole thing read as "Redirects can be immediately deleted if they have no useful history and: the appropriateness of this item [what item? the redirect I want to delete?] is disputed." For the same reason, I changed the word "item" to "criterion" to make it more clear that the warning applies to part of the process. FreplySpang (talk) 11:16, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
So, why aren't stale old subpage redirects deleted? SchmuckyTheCat 19:54, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Criterion 8 said "Talk pages of already deleted pages unless the discussion is linked to Wikipedia:Archived delete debates." Now that all delete debates are preserved in vfd/subpages, presuably the "unless" also covers cases where the talk page is linked from the particular vfd/subpage. I have tried to add it but there may be a neater way. -- Henrygb 01:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There have been several cases recently of articles speedied as "reposted content" (detailed in RickK's RFC). One of them has been undeleted, and the redeletion debate resulted in a clear consensus to keep undeleted. The other one is currently on VFU and has a majority for undeletion. There seems to be a consensus that "reposted content" must be largely equivalent to the original, but at least one admin sees things differently and has been speedying new articles with different content because the first article on the subject was deleted. -- SPUI ( talk) 05:05, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was just about to post the following at the village pump when the you have a message came out. ==Recreation of an Vfd'ed article== Is the recreation of an article Voted for deletion, a violation of any polices? Does the Vfd itself extend to the idea of the article? Is the recreation considered a run around to a Vfd? -- Jondel 07:59, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
My own opinion: a deleted article can be speedied when the reposted content (however much it has changed) would have no chance of changing the VfD ruling. For instance, if we decide a certain band isn't notable at all for whatever reason, then no article should exist there and any text there could be speedied on sight (excepting the rare possibilities that new information may indicate that the band is notable, or that it may belong in a new or different article, etc.). Or if an article was deleted because of blah blah blah, and the new text still blah blah blahs, then it can be speedied because the ruling would not change. It's when the article has changed in such a way that the old reasons for deletion might no longer apply that the article should be kept and, if deemed appropriate, go through VfD again. - furrykef ( Talk at me) 11:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In this edit, Netoholic made some minor changes to clarify the wording of one clause of the criteria. Four days later, Firebug reverted the changes saying that the "change to the policy was not discussed on the Talk page". I think this was an over-reaction. I and presumably many other people reviewed Netoholic's edit and found it to be a reasonable clarification. (I believe that I can say "many other people" because so many people have this page on their watchlists - proven by the speed with which true vandalism is reverted.)
I do not think that every miniscule tweak to wording needs to extensively discussed and voted on before changing the page. Policy pages may be held to a little different standard than the average article but this is still a wiki. All users are still encouraged to be bold. Furthermore, after four days the burden of discussion has shifted. Firebug should have brought his/her concerns here, not simply reverted the edit.
Okay, I'm done venting. Since at least one person apparently does consider this edit controversial, let's discuss it. I think it was a minor but reasonable clarification of the policy page in order to update it to the community's current practice. Rossami (talk) 17:48, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
Old version (bold highlights changes to Netoholic's version):
Netoholic's version (bold highlights changes from old version):
Thryduulf's proposed version (bold highlights changes from Netoholic's version):
(note that the above all relate to criterion 2 for redirects. Thryduulf 22:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC))
Recently a rather unusual article popped up at Nederland 1 which appeared to be either a humourless joke or a man's rather pathetic attempt to slander his ex-wife's new husband. It contained an extensive list of unsubstantiated allegations against the man, with all of his personal information. I put it up for deletion right away of course. Someone speedy deleted it, but as far as I can tell we have no specific speedy delete rule for this sort of thing currently. I undeleted it, to wait for its non-speedy death, but it was re-deleted, this time based on the theory that it could get us in legal trouble. See discussion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nederland 1.
Besides asking what we should do in this particular situation, some questions are raised. Should the speedy delete policy be amended for this sort of thing? This case is clear, but I can imagine a case where a stream of slander about a notable person could be NPOVed into a good article. What about other criminal uses of articles, like organizing a robbery, inciting a riot, or committing treason? Deco 09:05, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
There is a bunch of tiny articles which were used as metadata for {{ Election box candidate with party link}} (for example British_National_Party/meta/shortname). As far as I can tell they have all been moved to the template namespace and so they are actually REDIRECTs now, but they are all showing up on Special:Shortpages. Are these candidates for speedy deletion? -- Phil | Talk 09:25, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
It has struck me often that the example for #A1 isn't ideal. if somebody really had created an article for Anthony H. Wilson that said...
...my instinct - and, I think, that of many editors and admins - would be to wikify it and add {{substub}}. This example contains at least two notable and verifiable facts, and is can clearly be expanded to an encylopedia article. This criterion, IMNVHO, was really intended to stop somebody adding and article for, say, Hednesford Town...
Can we change the example on WP:CSD accordingly, so it better matches how things really work? sjorford →•← 09:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
Athough I've noticed that speedying redirects to nonexistent articles is debated, an issue was raised on WP:AN regarding redirects to articles that have gone through VfD. Normally those redirects should be deleted when the main article is, but some admins forget to check for incoming redirects. A number of those redirects have consequently appeared on RfD recently. Could we add those to the list of speedy deletion criteria for redirects? Perhaps something along the lines of
The wording is of course quite open to revision. -- TenOfAllTrades ( talk/ contrib) 23:08, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
This change leads me to believe that all the general reasons that apply to ordinary pages also apply to redirects (i.e. that the reasons for speedying a redirect are a superset of the general criteria). I have therefore modified the text of the redirect section to make this explicit. If not, let's figure it out. Noel (talk) 22:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
This page is not policy! You may like it to be policy, but saying it is policy does not make it so. The page is still in flux; different users are adding and subtracting criteria all the time. It is not appropriate to try to tag a page as "policy" without serious discussion right here in talk.
Pleas do not try to tag this page as policy just because you think so. This is a group; we all have opinions; and concensus is how we set policy.
Thank you. — Xiong 熊 talk * 09:30, 2005 May 18 (UTC)
See Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#Speedy category deletion. It was discussed there (with a link from WP:TFD/talk) and deemed common sense. Avoid duplicate discussions. This isn't strictly speaking a 'speedy' criterion, but more a case of co-nominating a cat and template if they are corresponding, and deleting both if TFD vote passes. R adiant _* 12:44, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
In the lst few weeks I've hd a few articles that I've started, some marked inuse and some marked stub, have people (sub sorters or RC patrol) come in during the middle of the edits and mark it as nonsense, which puts it on track for speedy delete. nonsense is for things like random characters and other real gibberish. an inuse or stub article may contain outlines, silly statements as placeholders, etc, but these things are not random characters. Might I ask what recourse is there for these occurences? SchmuckyTheCat 16:06, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Is it worhtwhile adding to the criteria those instances where an author wishes hisr article deleted ? This would be restricted to instances where no substantive imptrovement has been amde by other suers, as then the article is quasi-public-domain, but would allow the speedying of items entered in a haze and later regretted. -- Simon Cursitor 08:09, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Redirects from the Wikipedia: namespace into someone's userspace seem misleading to me: someone clicks on a link expecting to arrive at a community page and instead ends up at a page owned by one editor. For example, Wikipedia:Schools/Deletion principles poll currently redirects to Neutrality's private poll, User:Neutrality/Survey. Neutrality is only allowing himself to edit this page and is reverting changes made by others. This redirect seems inappropriate to me; I have attempted to remedy the situation, but Neutrality has reverted my edits. Thoughts?
Update: someone else has removed the redirect for now, too. But my question stands: can such a redirect be appropriate? Lupin 04:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
In an effort to alleviate the load on VFD pages, the discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy/Reducing_VfD_load has started. Among others, it discusses the possibility of creating new criteria for speedy deletion. Please give your comments there. R adiant _* 11:24, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
Because many IP addresses are dynamic, and many computers used by more than one person, we cannot assume that anon talk pages contain messages targeted to more than one user. Often, messages to anon users (test warnings especially) hang around for months or more--far past the point when the person who the message was intended for is necessarily the person that is using the IP number now.
This creates a couple problems. First, many people can get confused--if they stumble on an anon with 5 warnings, they might assume it is one persistent vandal, rather than multiple people getting assigned the same dynamic IP. Secondly, the anons themselves often receive "You have new messages", get threatened with vandalism they didn't commit, and are soured on Wikipedia. For both these reasons, I support adding a new criteria to
WP:CSD:
:
Talk pages of users who have not created an account, provided they are not tagged with a template such as
Template:Cambridge IP or some similar note and that there have been no messages left on the talk page for at least a month.
Thoughts? If there are no objections, I'll add it in, but I'd hope for, at the least, tweaking and tuning of the wording.
Meelar
(talk) 16:48, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
The following suggestion for speedy deletion criteria is under discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy/Reducing_VfD_load (please comment there, not here). The idea is that if a certain category of articles is deleted by unanimity VfD, and we can provide a clear wording for it, then it could conceivably be a speedy to save people the work.
R adiant _* 09:08, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
I oppose all proposals for new speedy criteria. Speedy is a bad way to handle most deletions and, by definition, leaves no room for comment. It is an open door to unilateral abuse. Speedy is appropriate in a highly restricted number of types of cases, and only then. Nobody should be editing Csd without extensive discussion and considerable lapse of time. — Xiong 熊 talk * 12:14, 2005 May 27 (UTC)