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I've observed that many users often refer to WP:ICTFSOURCES when assessing the reliability of sources used in articles related to Indian films/actors. I believe it's time to completely update the current list located at WP:ICTFSOURCES. Many of the sources listed there are involved in press releases, paid branding, and brand posts. The last discussion on this matter took place eight years ago, and within this timeframe, the credibility of many sources has likely changed. Therefore, I'm initiating a new discussion to update the list. I'm pinging @ JavaHurricane as they discussed this matter in the NPP discord channel a few months ago. I'm also pinging users who participated in the previous discussion for their input. @ Bollyjeff, @ Cyphoidbomb. – DreamRimmer ( talk) 08:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Hey all, I am starting this RfC for the abovementioned reason – to analyse the authenticity and reliability of current ICTFSOURCES, and to reassess and update the sources enlisted. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 07:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Good plans here to update the list. I think also it should be merged into Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/ICTF FAQ. The table format is more in line with Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, allowing for rationales and links to past discussions on each source. Something I've been meaning to tackle for a while. -- Geniac ( talk) 15:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
@ The Herald:, is there a time period for commenting you are hoping for? Wondering if some of these such as those discussed already at RSN should be added to the list. -- CNMall41 ( talk) 05:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Per BOI's About us page, "The figures on the website are not taken from producers or distributors of the respective films but independent estimates from our sources and then cross checked through cinema collections." If true, this suggests that they're not acting as mouthpieces for the production companies (i.e. acting as a primary source by proxy). Archive
In mid-2019 we discovered that BOI's budget figures included print and advertising costs. (See this discussion) Worldwide, when people reference a film's budget, they mean the production budget, i.e. the cost of making the film, not the cost of marketing it. So we should try to find a better source for budget than Box Office India. If we have no choice but to use BOI, then we should include notes that clarify that the budget figure is not consistent with other figures. Ex: "(Note: this figure includes print and advertising costs.)" or similar.— WP:ICTFFAQ table
Now, this is still true because we still have no other proper tracker website for Indian movies, especially Bollywood. Biased or not, the BO figures are almost close to the reported verified amount. So I'll put this one as a reliable source. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 07:10, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
In my experience with press release work, Hindustan Times stands out as a prominent website for publishing paid brand posts. It's crucial to note that any article lacking a specific author shouldn't be relied upon. Furthermore, it's advisable to avoid using articles with a disclaimer or those tagged as brand posts. – DreamRimmer ( talk) 11:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Zee News is owned by Zee Media Corporation. They also have other publications such as Daily News and Analysis. Not sure if we should address any of these individual or JUST Zee News for the purpose of the RfC. Just throwing it out there. -- CNMall41 ( talk) 06:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
According to their website ( About us page), they apparently use 4 sources; Hindustan Times, Film Companion, Live Mint and Desi Martini, of which HT and Mint are reliable per RSP and RSN. Desi Martini is a partner site for HT. Film Companion, I'm not so sure cuz the page doesn't mention anywhere about their sources or their origin or history, hence sounds dubious. But other than that, OTTPlay.com should belong in the reliable side of the spectrum. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 06:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Relevant discussion here related to Coke Studio (Indian TV program) and its seasons. I realize this is a film task force but I see the television task force is inactive. CNMall41 ( talk) 21:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
This is a follow-up query regarding an edit war where I objected to Aranmanai 4 being labeled as bilingual. Now that the films are available on streaming platforms, you can verify it here Aranmanai 4, Baak. I am also attaching screenshots of the CBFC certificates Cert1 Cert2, which show that the films are individual entities rather than dubs of one another. Additionally, there are significant differences in the censor cuts for both fight and song sequences, with less than 30 minutes of footage differing between the versions. Therefore, I request an expert opinion on whether the film should be considered multilingual or not. Tagging previous participants for their input, @ Jayanthkumar123 and Vestrian24Bio: Anoop Bhatia ( talk) 07:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
[1] It will affect Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eashvar Karthic. DareshMohan ( talk) 00:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Chidananda S Naik has an article although almost all other Cinéfondation short film makers don't have one. @ Jeraxmoira: @ Ab207: @ Kailash29792: @ Jayanthkumar123: @ Paradoxodarap:
@ Mushy Yank: Vidyadhar Kagita only directed one film albeit a different crowdfunded film. Where do we draw the line?
Question: Are interviews considered reliable primary sources or unreliable? DareshMohan ( talk) 07:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times.
As I was pinged, just sharing my view on Vidyadhar Kagita. For me, yes, WP:DIRECTOR may apply as his so far only notable work has received substantial coverage mentioning him as the main creator. So I do consider he may be notable enough for a WP page. Does one film guarantee that? No. The guideline is perfectly clear that it does not but it may be sufficient to have the director/writer (etc, depending on the coverage, the role, and basically or ultimately on consensus of Wikipedians if notability is challenged). In the case of the other discussed example, however, as I mentioned on my TP, I am not convinced it's enough, given the type of coverage (or lack thereof) and the award the said short (and its director, for that matter) has received. Best,- My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 10:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4 out of 5 times when I reloaded this site [3] an ad came when I pressed read more in the center of the screen. It will affect the notability of Chidananda S Naik. DareshMohan ( talk) 07:10, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dhruva Natchathiram: Chapter One – Yuddha Kaandam#Requested move 23 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 06:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
When dubbed films with no visible reshots (even with close analysis) have straight CBFC certificates due to actors dubbing for themselves. What is the protocol? Examples: Telugu version of NOTA (film) [4] and Tamil version of Marakkar: Lion of the Arabian Sea [5]. i.e. Vijay Devarakonda dubs for himself in Telugu, Arjun Sarja dubs for himself in Tamil, etc. DareshMohan ( talk) 00:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I do not find this reliable source. It was a site used by one of the film critic Mayank Shekhar. I do not find this critic notable either. Opinions? RangersRus ( talk) 00:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi. Does anyone know of any such [reliable] database? — DaxServer ( t· m· e· c) 16:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
These two portals, under report BO numbers of South Indian Movies and they can’t track single screens BO numbers in South India. Single screen BO data is not something one can find online for BOI. Lately both portals are even under reported BO numbers even undermining Comscore OVS numbers & Global BO numbers, only for South Indian films. There is an evident bias & misinformation regarding South Indian movies. This discussion has already happened in several talk pages of South Indian movies. These two portals should be tagged "not reliable for South Indian movie's Box office" Swarleystinson88 ( talk) 07:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Template:Wikiproject Indian Cinema task force editnotice
I have created this template which can be put in as an edit notice for various talk pages that are receiving multiple stray/useless edit requests for changing the box office figures. The current high traffic pages include:
I have opened this thread so that the community can review it and decide further which all pages might benefit from these. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 13:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
The article Baharon Phool Barsao has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
I'm finding basically no sources for this online. Lots of stuff that at first seems to be about this movie is about a different similarly titled movie or song, and some sites clearly mix them up.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. In particular, the
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion.
Gnisacc (
talk)
20:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
Page Indian 2 has Twitter sources from film production company " Lyca Productions" account, making announcements on release, marketing, distribution, 4DX release, music. Is this a keep or unreliable? RangersRus ( talk) 15:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Moviecrow.com, 123telugu.com and Indiaglitz.com are widely used on almost all Indian film sites. Now with more sites like behindwoods.com, thesouthfirst.com, latestly.com coming on board, reliability of all these sites need a definite Verdict to keep or remove and why. Can we all please expedite the verdict with everyone's input and update the WP:ICTFSOURCES list? I can help with list update but I need verdicts on reliability question of all these sources. Please give your verdict on these sources:
Main page | Discussion | Participants | Alerts | Announcements | Main article | To-do list | Assessment | Notable articles |
Hindi cinema recognised content | Malayalam cinema recognised content | Tamil cinema recognised content | Telugu cinema recognised content |
This project page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
|||||||||
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
WikiProject Film was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 17 September 2012. |
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
I've observed that many users often refer to WP:ICTFSOURCES when assessing the reliability of sources used in articles related to Indian films/actors. I believe it's time to completely update the current list located at WP:ICTFSOURCES. Many of the sources listed there are involved in press releases, paid branding, and brand posts. The last discussion on this matter took place eight years ago, and within this timeframe, the credibility of many sources has likely changed. Therefore, I'm initiating a new discussion to update the list. I'm pinging @ JavaHurricane as they discussed this matter in the NPP discord channel a few months ago. I'm also pinging users who participated in the previous discussion for their input. @ Bollyjeff, @ Cyphoidbomb. – DreamRimmer ( talk) 08:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Hey all, I am starting this RfC for the abovementioned reason – to analyse the authenticity and reliability of current ICTFSOURCES, and to reassess and update the sources enlisted. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 07:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Good plans here to update the list. I think also it should be merged into Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/ICTF FAQ. The table format is more in line with Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, allowing for rationales and links to past discussions on each source. Something I've been meaning to tackle for a while. -- Geniac ( talk) 15:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
@ The Herald:, is there a time period for commenting you are hoping for? Wondering if some of these such as those discussed already at RSN should be added to the list. -- CNMall41 ( talk) 05:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Per BOI's About us page, "The figures on the website are not taken from producers or distributors of the respective films but independent estimates from our sources and then cross checked through cinema collections." If true, this suggests that they're not acting as mouthpieces for the production companies (i.e. acting as a primary source by proxy). Archive
In mid-2019 we discovered that BOI's budget figures included print and advertising costs. (See this discussion) Worldwide, when people reference a film's budget, they mean the production budget, i.e. the cost of making the film, not the cost of marketing it. So we should try to find a better source for budget than Box Office India. If we have no choice but to use BOI, then we should include notes that clarify that the budget figure is not consistent with other figures. Ex: "(Note: this figure includes print and advertising costs.)" or similar.— WP:ICTFFAQ table
Now, this is still true because we still have no other proper tracker website for Indian movies, especially Bollywood. Biased or not, the BO figures are almost close to the reported verified amount. So I'll put this one as a reliable source. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 07:10, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
In my experience with press release work, Hindustan Times stands out as a prominent website for publishing paid brand posts. It's crucial to note that any article lacking a specific author shouldn't be relied upon. Furthermore, it's advisable to avoid using articles with a disclaimer or those tagged as brand posts. – DreamRimmer ( talk) 11:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Zee News is owned by Zee Media Corporation. They also have other publications such as Daily News and Analysis. Not sure if we should address any of these individual or JUST Zee News for the purpose of the RfC. Just throwing it out there. -- CNMall41 ( talk) 06:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
According to their website ( About us page), they apparently use 4 sources; Hindustan Times, Film Companion, Live Mint and Desi Martini, of which HT and Mint are reliable per RSP and RSN. Desi Martini is a partner site for HT. Film Companion, I'm not so sure cuz the page doesn't mention anywhere about their sources or their origin or history, hence sounds dubious. But other than that, OTTPlay.com should belong in the reliable side of the spectrum. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 06:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Relevant discussion here related to Coke Studio (Indian TV program) and its seasons. I realize this is a film task force but I see the television task force is inactive. CNMall41 ( talk) 21:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
This is a follow-up query regarding an edit war where I objected to Aranmanai 4 being labeled as bilingual. Now that the films are available on streaming platforms, you can verify it here Aranmanai 4, Baak. I am also attaching screenshots of the CBFC certificates Cert1 Cert2, which show that the films are individual entities rather than dubs of one another. Additionally, there are significant differences in the censor cuts for both fight and song sequences, with less than 30 minutes of footage differing between the versions. Therefore, I request an expert opinion on whether the film should be considered multilingual or not. Tagging previous participants for their input, @ Jayanthkumar123 and Vestrian24Bio: Anoop Bhatia ( talk) 07:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
[1] It will affect Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eashvar Karthic. DareshMohan ( talk) 00:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Chidananda S Naik has an article although almost all other Cinéfondation short film makers don't have one. @ Jeraxmoira: @ Ab207: @ Kailash29792: @ Jayanthkumar123: @ Paradoxodarap:
@ Mushy Yank: Vidyadhar Kagita only directed one film albeit a different crowdfunded film. Where do we draw the line?
Question: Are interviews considered reliable primary sources or unreliable? DareshMohan ( talk) 07:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times.
As I was pinged, just sharing my view on Vidyadhar Kagita. For me, yes, WP:DIRECTOR may apply as his so far only notable work has received substantial coverage mentioning him as the main creator. So I do consider he may be notable enough for a WP page. Does one film guarantee that? No. The guideline is perfectly clear that it does not but it may be sufficient to have the director/writer (etc, depending on the coverage, the role, and basically or ultimately on consensus of Wikipedians if notability is challenged). In the case of the other discussed example, however, as I mentioned on my TP, I am not convinced it's enough, given the type of coverage (or lack thereof) and the award the said short (and its director, for that matter) has received. Best,- My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 10:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4 out of 5 times when I reloaded this site [3] an ad came when I pressed read more in the center of the screen. It will affect the notability of Chidananda S Naik. DareshMohan ( talk) 07:10, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dhruva Natchathiram: Chapter One – Yuddha Kaandam#Requested move 23 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 06:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
When dubbed films with no visible reshots (even with close analysis) have straight CBFC certificates due to actors dubbing for themselves. What is the protocol? Examples: Telugu version of NOTA (film) [4] and Tamil version of Marakkar: Lion of the Arabian Sea [5]. i.e. Vijay Devarakonda dubs for himself in Telugu, Arjun Sarja dubs for himself in Tamil, etc. DareshMohan ( talk) 00:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I do not find this reliable source. It was a site used by one of the film critic Mayank Shekhar. I do not find this critic notable either. Opinions? RangersRus ( talk) 00:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi. Does anyone know of any such [reliable] database? — DaxServer ( t· m· e· c) 16:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
These two portals, under report BO numbers of South Indian Movies and they can’t track single screens BO numbers in South India. Single screen BO data is not something one can find online for BOI. Lately both portals are even under reported BO numbers even undermining Comscore OVS numbers & Global BO numbers, only for South Indian films. There is an evident bias & misinformation regarding South Indian movies. This discussion has already happened in several talk pages of South Indian movies. These two portals should be tagged "not reliable for South Indian movie's Box office" Swarleystinson88 ( talk) 07:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Template:Wikiproject Indian Cinema task force editnotice
I have created this template which can be put in as an edit notice for various talk pages that are receiving multiple stray/useless edit requests for changing the box office figures. The current high traffic pages include:
I have opened this thread so that the community can review it and decide further which all pages might benefit from these. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 13:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
The article Baharon Phool Barsao has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
I'm finding basically no sources for this online. Lots of stuff that at first seems to be about this movie is about a different similarly titled movie or song, and some sites clearly mix them up.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. In particular, the
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion.
Gnisacc (
talk)
20:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
Page Indian 2 has Twitter sources from film production company " Lyca Productions" account, making announcements on release, marketing, distribution, 4DX release, music. Is this a keep or unreliable? RangersRus ( talk) 15:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Moviecrow.com, 123telugu.com and Indiaglitz.com are widely used on almost all Indian film sites. Now with more sites like behindwoods.com, thesouthfirst.com, latestly.com coming on board, reliability of all these sites need a definite Verdict to keep or remove and why. Can we all please expedite the verdict with everyone's input and update the WP:ICTFSOURCES list? I can help with list update but I need verdicts on reliability question of all these sources. Please give your verdict on these sources: