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I'd like to raise again the point I raised here: Wikipedia is not a link repository. Right now the guidelines say "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files" but they disclaim this with "there is nothing wrong with adding a list of content-relevant links to an article." I've seen people use this to justify putting a bunch of links to fan discussion boards into an article. The guidelines need to take a firmer stand against this, so that articles don't end up with wars over which fan sites are "good enough" or "large enough" to be linked from an article. - Brian Kendig 17:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Many articles are written in style where the reader is addressed directly, as if the material in question was copied from a how-to guide, instruction manual or something of that sort. This is quite usual style in many articles, and we understand that instructions can be encyclopedic just as any other material. It's the style We're concerned about. Do we really need large parts of articles written like the (invented) examples below?
etc, etc.
I haven't find a good way to address this situation. Maybe a new template that could be used to mark articles that need a style change? There are lots of articles written in this style, and if it is deemed inappropriate, something should be done. Well, is this kind of style desired or undesired? Santtus 18:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Oops. I actually stumbled upon a line where it actually reads: Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. Ok, fine, policy is known. Should we set up a project to correct those pages where this kind of style is used? Santtus 18:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Whether or not a how-to article can be rewritten should be taken into account before nominating it for deletion. -- ¿ WhyBeNormal ? 00:21, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Every time I've seen discussion regarding an article being too "how toish," - comments to the author(s) of the article generally direct them to move that content to a Wikibook /shrug -- Naha| (talk) 05:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Deleting the content seems bad when there is no place to move it to. Perhaps we need to clearly establish that wikibooks can be short, and that this is where such material belongs. No reason to delete helpful stuff! Brokenfrog 07:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused where to draw the line on this sometimes. I mostly work on articles in the horticulture, gardening, and agriculture categories, and there is a bit of "how-tooishness" to a lot of articles there. Part of this might be because gardening encyclopedias (the kind printed on paper) have a lot of how-tooish content. Perhaps part of the problem is that these fields are applied, as opposed to theoretical, and so many articles there are describing methods and techniques. I get a bit worried that someone will get into deletion mode in those categories, thereby scaring off a lot of people with a lot of knowledge, who would otherwise be able to provide valuable content. Perhaps there needs to be a bit more leeway when it comes to applied sciences? SB Johnny 14:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
HOWTOs are great. Linearized articles dealing with procedures in the way they would typically be executed are excellent resources to refer to. Jimbo says were doing this for That Girl in Africa. We should give her all the tools She needs, by covering applications and techniques. If howto format is unacceptable, an example of procedures and expectations may suffice. (Deletion is not the default solution) Ieopo 15:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
There are a couple of places online where one can place how-to Articles I would suggest my site www.OpenTutoprial.com which is uses MediaWiki or wiki.ehow.com which is inspired by MediaWiki OpenTutorial is still in it's very early infancy but has potential to be a great resource with some help of course. -- Hapa 03:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Added category: Category:Articles_containing_how-to_sections. Self-explanatory. Santtus 12:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe the elimination of the words "for the benefit of minors" has created a lot of the confusion now at Wikipedia talk:Censorship.
The fact is, Wikipedia is censored, and it has to be. As I pointed out on Wikipedia talk:Censorship, we have no images, thankfully, at vomit. We also don't show the picture in question at goatse.cx.
I think we need to be more specific about what is not censored. I believe the wording should be something along the lines of: Indecency and blasphemy are not censored on Wikipedia. I believe indecency was what was meant in the original wording of the policy. -- Mwalcoff 05:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
If WP is not censored at all what does the phrase "obviously inappropriate content" refer to? Localzuk, do you think anything flies? I.e. that we should have simulated child porn pics @ child pornography? (these are not illegal, look quite real and are widely available). Mikker ... 14:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to "Wikipedia is not censored for minor" translation, lot of censorship happens in Japanese wikipedia. No inclusion of name or photos of vicitims of crimes for example. Can you change it to "Wikipedia is not censored to cater to political, social, religious, or any other kind of cultural sensitivities." FWBOarticle
Hi, I'm fairly new to Wikipedia and have just observed a user copying large bulks of writing from within an external source and putting it in wikipedia. Is this allowed or does it need to be reworded before it can be added? I just want to clarify before raising the point with the user himself. Nobleeagle (Talk) 06:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
After finding one article that was completely on the making of a food product, I searched for others and found several very recipe-oriented articles. To say that a certain sauce is usually made with the following ingredients, or a vegetable can be cooked or eaten in some of these ways is acceptable, but listing the actually preparation and/or measurement of ingredients does not seem conducive to an encyclopedia.
A grouchy rant for the day.
Perhaps this should be integrated with "Wikipedia is not a blog" or "Wikipedia is not a soapbox", but:
Several critics of Wikipedia (including the noisy crowd at such places as wikitruth, wikipedia review, and a few other forums) seem to think that because Wikipedia is a forum that anybody can edit--it is (or should be) a free speech platform which must suffer the rants, opinions, and beliefs of anyone who wishes to write here (regardless of how encyclopedic)--and that many Wikipedia policies, both those (like WP:NPOV and WP:V) which apply only to articles, and those (especially WP:NPA), which apply project-wide, somehow constitute an infringement of their "rights". (And that users who are disciplined and/or banned for violating Wikipedia policy are being "censored" or "oppressed" or such).
We probably should emphasize loudly and clearly: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Everything we do is intended to build a better encyclopedia; there is no reason whatsoever the project should tolerate behavior or content which is counter-productive to that end. Users who wish to rant on their favorite topic (say, Israel--a popular topic, it seems, among the WR crowd), should get a blog and do so. Of course, it happens that Wikipedia is a popular and well-read website, whereas most blogs are routinely ignored--and many with axes to grind think that their opinions will get a better airing if presented here, and especially so if presented as encyclopedic fact (or as a notable point of view) in the article space. The fact that nobody cares about someone's blog doesn't entitle users to exploit Wikipedia's good reputation in order to more widely disseminate (before a larger audience) editorials that the world at large would, in most cases, otherwise ignore.
Wikipedia is not a free-speech platform, and is under no obligation to endure the rants of every drive-by malcontent.
Rant off. -- EngineerScotty 00:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree completely. Wikipedia is not a place for free speech; it is already established that Wikipedia is not a free hosting service, or a soapbox, but like you, I know that some people still feel like Wikipedia is a place for free speech. Andrea Parton 01:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
It would perhaps be more acceptable to all concerned to say something like "Free Speech comes second to making a good encyclopedia." - after all, we value free speech - just not when it screws up the articles. SteveBaker 03:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
This discussion makes me think about the recent debate on userboxes that I have seen on Wikipedia. I agree with the NPOV and no personal attacks policies, but I feel like the former should apply only to the encyclopedic namespaces, not to user pages, talk pages, or project pages. I feel like userboxes of a political nature should be allowed, as long as they are not potentially offensive, but some, including Jimbo, disagree with me. Every day, userboxes pertaining to political, religious, and polemical beliefs are deleted, and Jimbo has discouraged their use, as he says they "attract the wrong kinds of people and give the wrong impression of what it means to be a Wikipedian." Many others feel that such userboxes are helpful to the project by allowing Wikipedians to state their inherent biases on their user pages. Even though it's been established that user pages are not meant for lengthy biographies or to host personal websites, userboxes are still highly controversial.
Well, with that controversy aside, free speech is valued on almost all talk pages, as long as it is not [[WP:CIVIL|incivil], profane, libelous, it does not violate copyright, and it is not patent nonsense. Generally, topics on talk pages are expected to be related to the subject of the article. Differing points of view are encouraged in articles, as long as they are all represented fairly and are all verifiable. After all, this is a free-content encyclopedia, but the really important word there is encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a place for political propaganda, advertising, vanity content, and a number of other things. Information in articles must be verifiable and neutral. I don't know that saying that Wikipedia is not a free speech platform really says anything that is not already stated in Wikipedia policy. I think saying that "Free speech comes second to making a good encyclopedia" leaves out a great deal in terms of what is acceptable on Wikipedia and what is not.
Andrea Parton 00:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Recently, the following text was removed from Wikipedia:Autobiography:
with the summary "letting people correct factual errors about themselves is inconsistent with official policy" and refering to #Soapbox contradiction.
That section quotes the ArbCom ruling "Editors should avoid contributing to articles about themselves or subjects in which they are personally involved, as it is difficult to maintain NPOV while doing so" from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt#Writing about yourself. Ken Arrombee claims that this implies that people may not correct errors in articles about themselves. However, I think that the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt/Proposed decision#Writing about yourself and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt/Workshop#Writing about yourself clearly shows that the Arbitration Committee did not want to put an absolute ban autobiographical editing.
I think that "you should feel free to correct mistaken or out-of-date facts about yourself" reflects Wikipedia practice. It was added to Wikipedia:Autobiography during the above-mentioned ArbCom case for that reason and I think there was little discussion because it reflects the consensus. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 11:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The policy only mentions the ArbCom ruling, which as I said is not meant to ban autobiographical editing in all circumstances. Furthermore, the "see Wikipedia:Autobiography" suggests that that point of the policy is meant to summarize Wikipedia:Autobiography. So, I don't think there is a policy supporting an unqualified ban.
However, apparently you think there is. How about clarifying the policy in the following way:
For reference, the current wording is:
-- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 10:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Or perhaps it's easier to change the ArbCom decision being quoted. The principles
are on the same subject, and they clearly do not ban autobiographical editing. By the way, I haven't found any discussion here about adding the ArbCom ruling. Is there none? -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 10:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Ken, I was proposing to replace the ArbCom ruling by another one. I think it would be helpful if you proposed some text yourself. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Plugwash, the text "Of course, you should feel free to correct mistaken or out-of-date facts about yourself …" was at Wikipedia:Autobiography, not here; but your make a good point that sexual orientation should be excluded.
I had a look at the history of this page and found the version before it was changed to include the ArbCom ruling:
Actually, I like this version better than my previous proposal. However, I'm not so keen on the sentence "A very few … after some debate." and I propose that it is replaced by some kind of warning, for instance,
-- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that the ArbCom, in order to handle one bad case, made a ruling far broader than they should have, and people are scurrying to ignore the ruling in ways vague enough to not cast aspersions on ArbCom rulings in general. I don't think that's going to work. If you don't make it clear that this ruling applies to one editor and not "editors", it's going to come up again and again. My proposal, such as it is, is that if that ruling isn't valid, we should outright say "please ignore it." How to do this without going into too much detail, I don't really know, but having a ruling which contradicts both policy and other rulings *is* a problem, and needs to be solved somehow. Ken Arromdee 13:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Is it? Should we have an article on every website on the net, using that article as source, or not? Should we document every occurrence on the web, given the web acts as a reference guide to what occurs on it? I say no, we need third party sources to build articles, but I'm interested in opinions. Hiding Talk 21:01, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not need an article on every website out there. I think that falls under the policy that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. That said, articles on websites should be written according to the notability guidelines. Andrea Parton 23:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
How do other people read the mirror part of "Wikipedia is neither a mirror nor a repository of links, images, or media files"? I take that to mean that WP should not duplicate the content of another page (unless it substantially changes it, in which case it is no longer a mirror). I've read another interpretation that this applies to mirroring repositories of links and that WP may mirror encyclopedic content. I think the neither/nor excludes that reading. Шизомби 00:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I understand completely how everyone feels "indiscriminate collections of information," and I fully agree that random information bits have no place here, however when it comes to anime characters with special "attacks" that they use I feel differently as they can be an important part of these characters and the story that they tell.
As for Wikipedia policy, I quote "Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic" which the character attacks do very much.
Not only do the attacks give the Wikipedia readers a feel for each character's unique fighting style, but they give insight into their personalities and help reinforce their attitudes. Take Monkey D. Luffy from One Piece for example, all his attacks are based on real objects and weapons (Pistol, Rifle, Windmill) thus reinforing the idea that even though he's a pirate on an unimaginable journey, he is in essence a normal person. In contrast take someone like Eneru, also from One Piece whose attack's are mostly based on various Thunder deites, thus reinforcing the fact that he sees himself as a god and nothing less. In closing I feel very strongly that they are essential to the character's Wikipedia profiles and as a loyal fan to Manga, Anime and the hard working people who create them and will do everything I can to keep them in their rightful place, because if they were not significant then why would writers and animators bother to make them in the first place? ( KingKogs 7 May 1:46 GMT)
The arbitration committee ruled on February 17, 2006 that: "Editors should avoid contributing to articles about themselves, their direct family or subjects in which they are personally involved, as it is difficult to maintain NPOV while doing so." [1] Creating overly abundant links and references to autobiographical articles, or to articles in which you have a personal stake, is similarly unacceptable.
Does this mean that I cannot contribute to an article about the school I am studying in? Does the 'personally involved' phrase prevent me to contribute? blooz 21:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)blooz
So far I have not been able to find an official definition of the word "Abbitis"
Here are my search results so far:
Page 242, 1776 by David McCullogh
The Southern Campaigns of the American Revolution, Vol. 1, No. 1 September 2004, Charles B. Baxley, editor
Here are the results when you type 'English definition of abbitis' in Google:
MEMOIRS OF THE CIVIL WAR, W. L. TRUMAN
-- 66.90.229.82 14:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)JorgeG
I have seen many new users refer to Wikipedia as simply "Wiki", which is incorrect because a wiki does not necessarily mean Wikipedia. SCHZMO ✍ 19:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
There is a difference between uppercap Wiki and lowercap wiki.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems sensible for me to use WP as the shorthand for Wikipedia. "Wiki" is increasingly confusing given the increasing number of other well-known wikis. -- Apantomimehorse 06:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
allthough WP or wp or Wp are simpler, and wiki is a word in and of itself wiki/Wiki as shortenting of Wikipedia is obviously in referance to Wikiepedia when used on wikipedia, I doubt anyone could be stupid enough to think that the sentance, how can i add images on wiki? to mean anything else than How Can I add images to Wikipedia? Furthermore even though there are a plethora of entitties that use the wiki prefex or the term wiki in their names Wikipedia is by far the most widely known even if not the first.
Oh and Piotrus, what is the differance between upper and lower case wiki(Wiki), you say there is but fail to mention it, i find that would be of note, and i am also curious. Qrc2006 22:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Discussion transferred here from a deletion page on a List (with minor revision to remove topic specific comments)... I think the comment transcends that specific area...
We need to get beyond… well I think so… well I don’t think so… well, I still think so… well I still don’t think so…
Anyone else think it is time to move beyond the philosphy "What Wikipedia is not" and develop criteria against which article can be judged when they are proposed?
UmptanumRedux 16:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Idea by User:Peripitus inserted into list above. Williamborg 02:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Ideally, the clearest description of something is both what it is and is not if defined to the fullest extensions imaginable. However pessimistic "is not" statements may seem, they are reasonably effective in most situations in preventing something from being interpreted as what it most definitely is not. And for those concerned with the flaws of such logic, I infer with humour from this article that Wikipedia is an experiment in communism, as some so often accuse it of being. -- Comrade Tiki 05:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Instruction manuals - while Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places, and things, Wikipedia articles should not include instruction - advice ( legal, medical, or otherwise), suggestions, or contain "how-to"s. This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, instruction manuals, video game guides, and recipes.
Recently this guideline has been used in a AFD debate regarding a page entitled Structures of the GLA. It has been settled that the page can not be maintained here in its current form, a discion which I accept; however, this AFD has been riddled with claims that the page voilates the game manual clause of WP:NOT.
By their very nature both real-time strategy and turn-based strategy games rely almost exclusively on a collection of units and structures that are operated by a player or by the player’s opponent. I feel that there must be a way for this encyclopedic information to be listed and maintained here on Wikipedia without violating the game manual provision. To that end, I feel that a better definition of a game manual as it pertains to RTS and TBS games is needed here. I submit that a list of units and/or structures that appear in RTS or TBS games, the general roles of those units and/or structures (ie vehical manufacturing, resource gathering, etc), and any upgrades for units/structures appearing in these games is encyclopedic and therefore should not be in violation of the game manual clause. By omitting the cost, tech level, and prerequists we aviod produce a game manual by requiring a person to either research such information or purchase the game. TomStar81 01:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Consider a seperate argument then: Why do we have game articles on dedicated charcters from Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon and so forth? It seems somewhat unfair that those pages are not being nominated for deletion, but a page with RTS structures is. All I am asking is for some wiggle room with these two types of games as it pertains to Wikipedia. Outsorcing information to other websites when it could be covered here in a legitimate and community agreed upon way seems bias. TomStar81 23:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I recently supported the deletion of List of fighting game terms, as it was a list of definitions. However, I wonder if I have erred, and should have instead supported its transmogrification into a Glossary of fighting game terms. What would be the key differences? Here are some rough ideas - please contribute, with a view to formalising the distinction somewhere: A glossary should have:
In this case, that list came pretty close to fulfilling these requirements, and with a bit of trimming, would have gotten there. Perhaps an admin could undelete it for review? Stevage 09:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to add the following to Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information:
We have deleted a number of articles including Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of SWIFT codes (Second nomination) where the content of the article is simply an extract of an offsite database. Others we have kept, like List of ...For Dummies books, despite the fact that the entire content is a (non-authoritative) copy-paste of the lists on the publisher's website which appears to include around 1,400 entries, among which as far as I can tell there is not one single bluelink despite the fact that we have recently doubled the number of For Dummies books on which we have articles. There are now two of them.
Database copy & pastes are not technically a copyvio as long as the data is presented in an obvious order (or so I'm told), but there is surely nothing encyclopaedic about copying and pasting lists of text - especially if a fully authoritative source is freely available online. It was noted in a discussion some time back that if you find yourself copying and pasting the bulk of an article from another source it's a sure sign that what you are doing is wrong. Whether that's entirely true I don't know, but I do know that, for example, maintaining a mirror of the UK's list of statutory instruments for 1996, all 3,278 of them, of which only a handful are bluelinked, is probably less useful than having a category for the articles and adding a link to the OPSI website which lists the rest. Yes, we're not paper, but neither are we the Yellow Pages.
This would not prevent a Wikiproject from making an article in Project space with a number of redlinks for filling by interested parties, but it would reduce the problem of lists which are mirrors at sme fixed point in time of an easily available authoritative source which is, if the reader wants current information, the place to go. It seems to be what was meant by WP:NOT a mirror or collectionof external links, but I find some reluctance to interpret that guideline as covering copy and paste from database extract or online databases. Just zis Guy you know? 13:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that many location articles, especially the ones about towns and villages that are popular tourist destinations, read like a travel brochure. Words like "stunning", "splendid views", "offers four star accomodation" and other suggestions about what to do and where to visit blah blah blah. It never fails to piss me off that no matter how obvious it is that this is an ENCYCLOPEDIA people still write up articles that seem to've been copied straight out of the Going Places guide. Perhaps we need some legislation on this? -- Badharlick 12:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Following a Village Pump discussion here, I would like a propose a change to the wording of section 2 of the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" section of this policy:
I propose changing this to clarify that disambiguation pages are not lists of dictionary definitions:
Please also see the related proposals here and here. Thanks. Carcharoth 13:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the section states:
I am afraid this section is needs to be rewritten and retitled. Currently it is a collections of claims, some of them true, some of them disputable, but all apparently lumped together in this one section without much thought to their connection and even less to the section title ( bureaucracy). Let me divide the claims into several groups:
I am awaiting your comments.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a democracy? Well, I think it should be! Let's have a vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.217.225 ( talk • contribs)
Would anybody have any objection if I expanded point 1 from WP is not "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons." to "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional)"? Vizjim 15:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest adding that WP is not a repository of pointless trivia. Some articles have grown a section on "<X> in popular culture", which is typically a mind-numbing enumeration of appearances in films, video games, etc. Leibniz 16:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Nimur was bold and added a new section to this page without discussion here. I'm not going to revert it because I think it's a good addition but we should probably discuss the addition some. I particularly like the wording on the caution against autobiographical entries. We do not have an absolute prohibition but it's never a good idea to try to write about yourself. The link to Wikipedia:Notability is also explicitly described as a guideline, not a policy-level rule. I think the wording strikes a very good balance. Rossami (talk) 03:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I've seen a number of articles, especially radio articles start to contain full schedules of television and radio programmes. Because schedules change often and don't usually contain information about the TV/radio station of the article, could it be classed that schedules in articles can not be seen as encyclopedic, and would be better suited to a dedicated TV/Radio guide? Sonic 18:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what "instruction manual" actually means. Someone proposed deletion for a page I created, because of this "instruction manual" policy. However it was a list, and not a how-to in any way. I think that some clarification needs to be made as to what an "instruction manual" is. Fresheneesz 19:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
To make this operational: Wikipedia articles should not contain anything unquoted in the second person, the imperative, or the exhortative:
(The caveat "unquoted" is because we may want to quote from sources which are in these forms.) -- FOo 20:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Eric Zorn, a journalist and blogger, coined a law in his blog, and then created the article Zorn's Law to legitimise it. This seems to exploit a hole in the WP:NOT rules, specifically the line "citing book, print, or reliable web resources demonstrates that the material is verifiable and is not merely the editor's opinion", which doesn't work when the editor is himself a print-medium author. Further discussion on Talk:Zorn's Law.... / blahedo ( t) 15:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
A bit of advice I've included in some speedy nominations, as part of RC patrol: Wikipedia is neither the white pages nor the yellow pages; we're not a directory of people, business, or other organizations. The fact that some people or businesses are given articles doesn't mean that anybody gets one. -- EngineerScotty 23:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link to a Nazi propaganda, anti-Semitic film called "The Enternal Jew". It was being linked to from a neo-Nazi website through Wikipedia. The film is banned everywhere in the world and only available for viewing with special permission or explicit educational licenses.
Was I right to remove it? --— Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.194.50 ( talk • contribs)
It was linked to from "The Eternal Jew" page.
Last week, there was a case in which a user had put a male pornographic picture on his user talk page. He was convinced to take it down, but it appears there was no Wikipedia policy specifically addressing the issue.
The problem was not that the picture exists on Wikipedia but rather that it was placed where people would not expect to see it. If someone wants to see porno, that's that person's perrogative, but no one should be "subjected" to it if he or she wasn't looking for it.
I'd like to propose an addition to this project to address this situation:
While shocking or disturbing content, such as sexually explicit or violent images, is not prohibited on Wikipedia, it, like all content, should only be placed where it is appropriate. No one should be subjected to shocking or disturbing content he or she was not looking for. This is not simply an issue of people seeing something they don't like. Users can get into serious trouble at school or work for viewing what their teacher or boss considers "inappropriate."
A topless photo might be appropriate on an article about a porn star, but should not be placed in an article about the porn star's home town, even if she is the only famous person to come out of the town.
Editors be sure that any links to potentially shocking or disturbing content clearly indicate what is on the other end of the link. For example, do not simply write, " John Atherton was executed for buggery." Because "buggery" is not a commonly used word in much of the English-speaking world, some users would be likely to click on that link, not realizing it leads to an article on anal sex.
Mwalcoff 20:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Lately there have been some deletion debates about articles that are, essentially, lists of how to translate proper nouns into other languages. For instance, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of titles of Harry Potter books in other languages or Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of European cities in different languages. Sometimes, translations can make good subject matter for an article, if people have written interesting things about translation (see, for instance Harry Potter in translation). I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't have articles where the only purpose is to provide the translation of X between languages. So far, the only counterarguments I've seen are that the translations might be useful... but to me, that's too much along the lines of "all useful information should be in Wikipedia" which policy rejects ( WP:NOT). The only kind of translation I've found interesting as a translation on its own are unusual non-literal translations; for instance, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" is translated into German as "... Chamber of Fear," which is pretty different. There's GOT to be a point where we don't accept translation. I'd like to add "Wikipedia is not a translation guide" or "Wikipedia is not an intra-language dictionary" or something similar to the list. Any thoughts? Mango juice talk 17:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Cookbook and depository for every minor comic book character ever conceived. Can we add those two as well? BJK 23:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Item 2 under "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files" says
I think this is outdated as far a lists are concerned. First of all the term structured list isn't defined anywhere and it isn't clear to me what it means. The part about "assist with the organisation of articles" makes it sound like the only lists that are allowed are the topic lists that predated the Category implementation. Yet lists are allowed. There are guidelines that instruct the best way to format and present lists and not just those that assist with the organisation of articles. My suggestion would be to remove this item as it hasn't been enforced for a long time. -- JeffW 16:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I was reading the Wikipedia policy regarding who Wikipedia "is not censored." It says that the content cannot violate the laws of Florida. I was thinking, since this material is accessible to anybody without any kind of obvious warning about objectionable content, is there some concern about children accessing the material and how that could be a violation of the law? I understand that Wikipedia is provided primarily as an educational resource, but there's no doubt that some images (such as the one for the Prince Albert piercing) wouldn't be too hard to be considered pornographic or unnecessarily lacking in educational value. As an avid supporter of Wikipedia, I just want to know what the policy is on this, and, if I don't understand the law sufficiently, what prevents the Wikimedia Foundation from being required to institute some sort of click-through notice of potentially offensive content. If this was addressed previously, forgive my ignorance; Wikipedia can be so dense with content that I sometimes find adequate research a daunting task. Please be gentle when answering my question; I'm relatively well-schooled in law, but I have delicate personal sensibilities. Thanks. Lemonsawdust 10:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Given guidance on writing about fiction, any objections to adding the following to Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information?
10. Plot summaries - Wikipedia articles should not act as repositories for plot summaries, annotated or not, but should offer plot points where germane to sourced, critical discussions of the work, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance.
I think that's common consensus? Hiding Talk 17:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Recently, a bunch of AfDs were made on lists of minor things in Star Wars. While I agree that this information in the current state should NOT be on this site, we also have to look at it this way: if we delete fictional cruft lists, we risk the chance of each minor topic exploding out. Having one beats having 150; and lists always have the potential to become well-respected articles (per Spira (Final Fantasy X)). I think this whole idea to be clarified. — Deckill e r 19:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I am a regular Wikibookian, and my attention has been drawn to inaccuracies in this page. I have therefore made this amendment. The previous version of this Wikipedia policy was stating that Wikibooks should be used for FAQs and Instruction Manuals. However, this is not true. Wikibooks is for textbooks and annotated texts - nothing else.
Those of you who wish to contribute to our ever-expanding collection of textbooks and annotated texts are most welcome to come over to Wikibooks to help, 86.129.72.25 20:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If so, why? If not, where did it go? Santtus 15:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Though very useful for reasearch, the Wikipedia does not directly contain information or opinion that should be cited as an authority. This admonition applies to editors as much as readers, for Wikipedia articles should not be cited as an authority by other Wikipedia articles.
Although Wikipedeans endeavor to develop and maintain articles with high stardards of verifiability and NPOV (neutral-point-of-view), this effort is never complete. Moreover, while the vast majority of articles become more accurate and NPOV over time, articles take backsteps daily as vandals, spammers, crackpots, and polemicists pollute the site; these changes are almost always noticed and reverted shortly after by Wikipedians, many of whom pay special attention to the recent changes page.
There are four primary reasons for incorrectness in the Wikipedia:
The first kind usually produces the most eggregious errors, but they are often therefore easy to spot by those watching the recent changes page; when this is the case, the errors are not tolerated and quickly removed. The second and third kinds are not always obvious, and many editors grant leeway to these edits with the idea that they will be improved upon later, especially if the edits are additions of information rather than changes to existing information. The fourth kind can be pernicious: editors are sometimes lulled by the mere presence of a citation and so don't investigate further; even when editors do investigate, it's often hard to determine the quality of a source, and too detailed examinations and critiques of sources are viewed by some editors as constituting original reasearch, something not allowed by policy. -- Apantomimehorse
I don't really think it's within the spirit of WP:NOT, which has always described the general types of content we don't include. This rule, while describing something Wikipedia is not, takes a sharp departure in that it's purely about the quality of articles. -- W.marsh 22:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
(←Undent)
Hmmm. I realise it's important to provide sources for 'most everything you write. Right now I'm just wondering if it's possible to go too far. *scratches head*. Perhaps there's some sort of real life limit, where we face some sort of diminishing returns? Kim Bruning 08:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary policy page is actually narrower than Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Policymakers, please put them in sync, otherwise a broken telephone game sometimes happens. `' mikka (t) 00:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I recommend changing the wording of:
Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference.
to
Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. Merged groups of small articles based on a core topic are certainly permitted; see List of locations in Spira for an example.
What do you think? This should clarify a lot of the misinterpretations shown on AfD. — Deckill e r 06:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently removed the alma mater and fight song lyrics from two high school articles ( St. Edward High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Saint Ignatius High School (Cleveland, Ohio)) citing the sub-section of WP:NOT that excludes Wikipedia as a place for an indiscriminate collection of information. Another editor brought up the issue in this discussion on my user talk page. I'd like some input into this issue. Do high school fight song and alma mater lyrics qualify as an indiscriminate collection of information? -- backburner001 13:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
We have "Wikipedia is not an experiment in anarchy" "Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy". I thought it used to be just "wikipedia is not anarchy" and "wikipedia is not a democracy." Oh well.
Can we add "Wikipedia is not communism." Or "wikipedia is not an experiment in communism." Though, " an experiment in " sounds kinda weak and should just be removed from this page entirely--it just takes the certainly out of a phrase to say "an experiment in"
My request is because I've seen a lot "wikipedia is communism" vandalism recently and if wikipedia just says it's not communism, this would be a good thing. Anomo 23:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd like this page to include a section on how Wikipedia is not a fan page. Many of the articles I read and edit are entertainment-related, and far too many of them have very serious tone and NPOV issues. Articles on comedians and shows read as a loose colection of various editors' retellings of their favorite jokes from that source. Many include far more content about a single editor's pet interest or concern, usually with lots of original research, than that issue comes close to deserving. While all of this is clearly against Wikipedia policy, I think that spelling out that the encyclopedia should not read as a fan page would be helpful. Croctotheface 09:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I would like to add a section that Wikipedia is not a Gossip Rag. That is, it is not a repository for disparaging non-notable (not nationally or internationally known) persons. I have seen entirely too much of this, particularly when it comes to lawyers. I have battled one article that clearly fit within 'speedy delete' attack page, and was finally deleted, and I was astonished that a few people defended it so intensely. It was initially unsourced, and after lengthy explanation of why it fit within 'speedy delete', the author added a couple of references -- a local newspaper and "Overlawyered", which is notorious as a political group with dubious validity. I do not see anywhere in this "What Wikipedia is Not" that addresses this. jawesq 20:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
It would appear that lists of words violate the provision that Wikipedia should not have articles which define individual words, nor should it include Lists of such definitions. However, we have Category:Lists of words, Category:Lists_of_slang and Category:Lists of phrases, among others. Policy is descriptive, not prescriptive. Is this policy still being applied (in which case, all of these articles must be deleted), or not (in which case the wording of the policy needs to be changed). Guettarda 21:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Wonder what it means when we have whole categories chock full of articles that violate the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not: 1. Dictionary definitions, 2. Lists of such definitions, 3. A usage guide or slang and idiom guide." guidance. Perhaps it means that there are "lists of words" that we as the Wikicommunity find acceptable and it is time to rethink our view. Perhaps we add the qualification, that Wikipedia does have a place for terms that 1) do have a common denominator, 2) the information is useful, 3) the subject is studied in an academic context, and 4) the page is NOT better suited to a different wikiproject.
In reviewing and thinking about this topic I became aware that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of gay slang words and phrases is currently discussing this and read Wantman's comments (some of which are plagarized above). But I do think he's on to a valid perspective and that Wikipolicy, yet once again, may need to adjust.
Thanks for flagging this topic! Williamborg (Bill) 22:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Since Wiktionary isn't really set up for thematic lists, these articles can't really be transwikied to there. In some cases they might be appropriate for wikibooks, but only if there is a text there that can incorporate these lists (best to ask around at the Staff lounge before "dumping" them there). In any case it seems to me that they do no harm here, and do serve to clarify language differences. -- SB_Johnny | talk 14:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
After a bit of research I found that the Wiktionary system for making such lists is to put them in the Appendix namespace. A good example can be seen at Wikt:Appendix:Australian rhyming slang. Compare to Wikipedia's Australian rhyming slang. The two are very similar though there are items on each list not appearing on the other. This 'Appendix' namespace was apparently only added to Wiktionary in March of this year, though similar pages had been hosted under the 'Wiktionary' namespace prior to that. With inter-wiki links I think these Appendix pages make a pretty good substitute for the Wikipedia equivalents. Having articles on Wikipedia about the process/types of loan words, slang, jargon, or whatever and lists of such on Wiktionary, each cross-linked to the other, seems to make sense. Possibly we could change some of the Wikipedia articles to just be links to the Wiktionary equivalents... not as good as an 'interwiki redirect' (which would be ideal), but close enough. What do people think? -- CBD 12:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
You can make our Australian rhyming slang article better by editing the list at Wiktionary to add any missing entries, excising the mini-dictionary from the Wikipedia article to leave the stub encyclopaedia article content that discusses the slang itself, and cross-linking the two. Compare what was done with List of English words of Greek origin. Uncle G 13:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
As a resource that may be helpful, I've knocked together an initial list of articles that may be candidates for migration to Wiktionary - each article given its own Wiktionary Appendix, for example. It's a sub-page of this debate, here
/Candidate lists to be migrated to Wiktionary. It is by no means perfect - I can't get the links to the categories of Lists of Words and Lists of English Words to work correctly, but perhaps it'll help us to hone policy, and provide a set of thought-experiment test cases. I would hope we would contact recent editors of these articles/lists to garner their opinions before migrating them.
WLD 17:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Since User:JzG has removed most of my announcements from the various slang glossary talk pages and from the Village Pump, I humbly withdraw my proposal. -- List Expert 12:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
NOTICE: I'VE POSTED A NEW PROSAL FROM SCRATCH at Slang glossaries, BELOW. -- List Expert 22:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Will made a good point for verification and things unverifiable in the list should be removed. Also, wikipedia is not a dictionary so it shouldn't have dictionary stuff. Anomo 05:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
. Hope that helps. WLD 10:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)"some editors may object if you remove material without giving people a chance to find a source, particularly when the material is not obviously wrong, absurd, or harmful. Instead of removing such material immediately, editors are encouraged to move it to the talk page, or to place the {{fact}} template after the disputed word or sentence, or to tag the article by adding {{not verified}} or {{unsourced}} at the top of the page"
Information on Wikipedia must be reliable and verifiable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
The problem with lists of modern slang is that it they are inherently unverifiable. Except for a few outdated slang dictionaries there are no secondary sources. Primary sources, such as song lyrics, do not give clear definitions. Foreign slang words are doubly unverifiable. There is not good reason why these words, if verifiable, shouldn't be included in Wictionary rather than Wikipedia. - Will Beback 16:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I've posted a new proposal below concerning Slang glossaries. -- List Expert 00:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" maxim is being widely abused at AFD as a synonym for "I don't like the subject of this article.". In part this is because editors are applying excessively wide definitions of what is an "indiscriminate collection", and not actually looking at the bullet points in the list at all. I've therefore moved "news reports" to "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought" (which is what primary source news reports are) and moved several "indiscriminate collection" items to the old "Wikipedia is not a directory" maxim that we used to have. The other "indiscriminate collection" items require attention. Uncle G 10:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to try this again. Keep in mind that there are those who seem to be trying to thwart the proposal process itself. I am in the process of placing notices of this discussion on the talk pages of all of the slang glossaries listed below and on the Village Pump. If those notices get reverted or blanked, please help the process by restoring them. Thank you. Also, this is a discussion specifically about whether or not WP:NOT should be changed, and if so what it should say concerning slang glossaries. This is not a discussion of WP:VER, which of course applies to articles of all types. The point is, that many AfDs are being nominated on the grounds that WP:NOT disallows slang glossaries, but many such glossaries have survived the process, and the number of slang glossaries is growing. Some of these articles have been on Wikipedia for years, and some of them have survived multiple AfD attempts. The situation is that there is an ongoing battle between those who are trying to enforce Wikipedia policy by removing slang glossaries from it, and those who defend the glossaries in the AfD discussions because they believe they add value to Wikipedia. Because a great deal of time and effort is being expended in frequent conflicts over the acceptability of slang glossaries and by extension the underlying policy, perhaps it would be beneficial to reevaluate the policy and change it to provide a solution to this dilemma. If some glossaries are acceptable, while others are not, the distinctions need to be spelled out.
Here's a partial list of slang glossaries on Wikipedia:
Some jargon glossaries on Wikipedia:
So the question remains: how do we solve the problem of the conflict between their existance and policy? Should the following policy be modified? Here's the relevant prose:
Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not:
Two possible solutions are:
Either of the above changes would prevent a lot of AfDs. -- List Expert 22:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the policy is clearly broken and needs to be fixed. The very essence of Wikipedia is that it can have a much broader depth and breadth of coverage than a paper encyclopedia because it is not limited by physical size. To cover non-academic subjects (like pop culture) and even many academic ones absolutely requires that the jargon of the subject be glossed. In a paper encyclopedia, these are usually brief glosses in the text as needed--but that's because of space limitations, and we can do better. Comprehensive glossaries by field are better. These things clearly don't belong as individual articles in Wiktionary, because most jargon is very context-specific and not relevant to the usage of the word itself (although certainly jargon words that have leaked into mainstream use rate an entry there.)
Secondly, let's make it clear that "jargon" and "slang" are two very different things, and need to be treated differently--the former is the context-specific language in which students of a particular field exchange ideas in ways that would be awkward or impossible using "normal" language. Such terms are part and parcel of the field of study itself and not covering them is tantamount to not covering the subject: things like Mathematical jargon, BDSM jargon, and Poker jargon are among these, and it would be downright silly and counterproductive to remove them--also, they don't violate the standard because the standard explicitly says that specialized glossaries are included and welcome. Trying to write articles on poker without definitions of jargon terms like "flop" or "draw" would be nearly impossible. The latter--"slang"--is something different; slang terms are generally one-for-one substitutes for ordinary language used by groups of people for social putposes such as group identification or exclusion. As far as I'm concerned, an entry on such a group and its slang is simply good, deep, coverage of that group, and absolutely belongs here as well.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, but it's not Britannica, nor should it be. We should not be bound by the standards of a medium that already does a fine job at what it does--we should follow guidelines that allow us to do what we do best, and that may be something very different. Yes, we want to uphold standards of quality in Wikipedia, but not at the expense of doing what we do best--having game players write about games, music fans write about music, and in general having non-academic people write about non-academic subjects that a paper encyclopedia doesn't have room to cover but that are interesting and informative to readers, and one thing we will always be better at than the Britannicas of the world.
Finally, I think it's important to relax a few of the other standards in jargon/slang articles for non-academic fields as well. For example, there simply aren't going to be any published secondary sources on some fields, and it would therefore be impossible to cite them. In such cases, clearly using primary sources is necessary despite the "no original research" guideline, and talk pages should be used to hash out the best coverage.
-- LDC 19:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The root problem here is that the policy says 'lists of definitions' are not allowed, but 'glossaries' are. Look up 'glossary' in your dictionary and it will tell you that it is a list of definitions. :]
Obviously, the intent was to include some subset of definition lists as allowed, but there is great disagreement as to the extent of that subset... and some would remove it entirely. To further complicate things that dichotomy has been in the policy a long time... dating to well before Wiktionary having any capacity to handle such lists. Now that Wiktionary has the 'Appendix' namespace, added six months ago specifically for purposes of hosting such information, a case can be made that the reasons 'glossaries' (of whatever subjects) were previously allowed in Wikipedia are now debatable.
I think it is generally agreed that lists of general words (e.g. 'List of English words beginning with Ar-') do not belong in Wikipedia. That being the case, and some people feeling that slang, jargon, and/or all word-lists should be removed from Wikipedia, I'd prefer to host these lists in Wiktionary so that they could all be together for easier searching. Wiktionary has an entire namespace specifically set up for this kind of information. While it is a big change to migrate everything I think that is preferale to the ongoing bickering. Looking back you can find instances of this 'definitions lists' war from two years ago, if not earlier. It will doubtless continue to recur so long as they are found in Wikipedia - as some users will always feel they are inapropriate here. -- CBD 00:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
To sum up, glossaries (definition lists) with Wikipedia internal links are an essential part of Wikipedia. You cannot remove them without doing serious damage to the encyclopedia. There are thousands of them, from lists of 3 definitions imbedded in an article to large lists supporting prominent fields. There are even sets of glossaries. Wikipedia's mathematical glossaries are among the best on the Internet, and they'd be ruined by being moved to Wiktionary -- these glossaries are very well integrated into the subject and into Wikipedia. They have encyclopedic function. Removing them will reduce Wikipedia's usefulness. Transwiki'ing glossaries to Wiktionary is not the answer. -- List Expert 01:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
As an example of how these pages can be moved to Wiktionary see Wikt:Appendix:Sexual slurs. I basically copied List of sexual slurs, added 'w:' to the existing links, and then made all the highlighted words in the glossary list into Wiktionary links... a good portion of which turned out to be already defined there. A fairly easy process to create a page which provides all the information the Wikipedia article did plus links to full dictionary definitions of the listed words. -- CBD 23:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I can seem to find a section that matches this topic. But I've seen far to many rumors put into articles or whole articles that are rumors. So we need a section that references WP:OR in a way thats more direct about rumors. -- TheFarix ( Talk) 18:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Despite assurances of quality and good faith by most editors... the freedom given by wikipedia makes it unreliable. As per "Wikipedia is not an authority" above (which I think should be part of the main "What Wikipedia is not" article, but don't care enough to add it) and since citing sources is guideline and not policy, you can only rely on so much in wikipedia and really should always verify info from wikipedia against a second source (but not places like answers.com which tends to steal from wikipedia without citing and ends up just being cut-and-paste).
I'm sure most editors will consider this comment a trolling attempt, but they lack NPOV in this case. If you're a fan of wikipedia, you can't be neutral about it's major flaws. Even the wikipedia founder was nervous about article quality in a recent conference.
It seems that wikipedia's reliability is based on the premise of quantity of editors winning over sub-conscious bias and ever-present intellectual agendas present in all editors. How can wikipedia be not just regurgitation of other sources (straight copying or plagiarism) and avoid the inherent introduction of bias by "writing it in your own words"?
Event the more scientific articles rarely have citations except to inter-link to many other uncited articles. A good example is parallax which is most likely 99% accurate, but cites no sources and therefore fools you into thinking it's reliable just because it is well-formatted. This is representative of a majority of wikipedia content.
Wikipedia is better as information for an initial inquiry to get a direction, but not necessarily reliable.
Don't get me wrong, I like wikipedia. It just seems to be evolving into an ideology and self-verifying bureaucracy. -- Fandyllic 6:14 AM PDT 12 Aug 2006
No source is perfectly reliable, remember Nature article - Britannica also has 3 erros per article. Many academic papers once thought good are later proven to be wrong. Our content varies, with FAs being more reliable then stubs, but I think we are more reliable then most of the sources 'out there'. If we go with 'Wiki is not reliable', we may as well throw in other general statements like 'Wiki is not comprehensive, wiki is not academic, wiki is not WYSIWIG (yet) -> thus wiki is not that user friendly, wiki is not very accessible (disabled-friendly), wiki is not understood well...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
We have whole pages on Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Academic use. There's no real need to cram them in here, or to have this discussion here. This article describes what Wikipedia is not, which is distinct from how to make use of Wikipedia. Uncle G 16:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
...And, maybe, Wikipedia is not a MMORPG. (alternate: not a contest)
Just a suggestion of what is omitted, but what people often try to turn Wikipedia into. -- CP/M comm | Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 14:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
The image showing a soap is confusing. See soapbox. ← Humus sapiens ну? 08:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The wording of the "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" guideline currently undermines itself. I'm under the impression that it's a general rule and the bulleted list are just examples of things ruled out completely. The current wording implies the list is of the only areas where this guideline applies. Which is correct? Can something be deleted on the grounds of being "indiscriminate information" if it doesn't fit one of the categories mentioned? -- Dtcdthingy 20:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The following is not good: 'Note: Don't misinterpret that a disambiguation page is against the policy of what Wikipedia is not regarding "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files". A disambiguation page is here to resolve conflicts of articles carrying essentially the same title. It is not just for a reference of links or anything similar to that'.
Someone really oughta rewrite that. (Someone who is not me, my writing is also not good) -- Xyzzyplugh 04:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television_Stations#Newscast_schedules has seems to reached a moderate consensus that newscasts and other local programming of a station are notable and should be included in articles (or at least, enough people aren't objecting to it). Before I revise the section about radio "schedules" by permitting the addition of locally originated programming times in station articles (much like we have the times of network originated programming in articles such as 2005-06 United States network television schedule and the CBS#Fall_2006_schedule articles), I'd like to see some discussion. Certainly, it is a clear double standard to permit network schedules to be displayed but locally originated programs not to get the same treatment. Calwatch 05:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to ask your opinion on the interpretation about the rule "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball", with reference to relevant future events.
According to you, an article about the future season of a football club, whose only content is the fact that the club has signed an agreement to play in that season with its football federation, is relevant enough to supersed the "not a crystall ball" rule?
I am referring to articles like Adelaide United FC Season 2007-08, Adelaide United FC Season 2008-09, Adelaide United FC Season 2009-10.
(Note: I requested to remove these articles on the basis of non-notability and WP:NOT breaking on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject A-League. There, only the original author of the article, User:Daniel.Bryant, and another user, admin User:Wiki_alf, showed, rejecting my request — Daniel.Bryant also showing a rather arrogant attitude, if I am allowed to say. Since I was not convinced by their explanations, I brought the matter here.)
-- 217.26.87.7 11:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have a simple question: Is Wikipedia an atlas? -- Dijxtra 14:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I started the Maps of xx series as an attempt to create a good collections of maps of Wikipedia. Many encyclopedia have an atlas as part of the encyclopedia. What I will do is continuing the project, and I would like to see it becoming a WikiAtlas. Ideal would be if the entries wouldn't be named maps of XX but Atlas:xx under the en.wikipedia.org domain, so for example Atlas:Belgium ( [5]) would be the new name of Maps of Belgium. Electionworld Talk? 14:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that "An exception to this rule ("Wikipedia is not a dictionary") is for articles about the cultural meanings of individual numbers." Is this true? -- Grand Slam 7
there is a contradiction on this section as it mentions wikipedia is not for self promotion, which is not under the actual rules of what is not allowed on user pages and to which most admins use theirs as blatant self promotion of their wiki exploits
since it has been disregarded and tossed out again, once more i point out inconsistancy between statement of this page about user pages are not for self promotion, the user page's guidelines on what user pages are not, and many admins disregard for either correcting this page to more accurately reflect on actual policy or the policy of user pages not allowing self promotion in the first place.. now im gonna wait and get banned for speaking out and pointing out some flaws. 68.161.183.243 23:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
while im waiting and thought upon it I well admit the previous post would be something of harassment 68.161.183.243 00:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
I'd like to raise again the point I raised here: Wikipedia is not a link repository. Right now the guidelines say "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files" but they disclaim this with "there is nothing wrong with adding a list of content-relevant links to an article." I've seen people use this to justify putting a bunch of links to fan discussion boards into an article. The guidelines need to take a firmer stand against this, so that articles don't end up with wars over which fan sites are "good enough" or "large enough" to be linked from an article. - Brian Kendig 17:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Many articles are written in style where the reader is addressed directly, as if the material in question was copied from a how-to guide, instruction manual or something of that sort. This is quite usual style in many articles, and we understand that instructions can be encyclopedic just as any other material. It's the style We're concerned about. Do we really need large parts of articles written like the (invented) examples below?
etc, etc.
I haven't find a good way to address this situation. Maybe a new template that could be used to mark articles that need a style change? There are lots of articles written in this style, and if it is deemed inappropriate, something should be done. Well, is this kind of style desired or undesired? Santtus 18:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Oops. I actually stumbled upon a line where it actually reads: Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. Ok, fine, policy is known. Should we set up a project to correct those pages where this kind of style is used? Santtus 18:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Whether or not a how-to article can be rewritten should be taken into account before nominating it for deletion. -- ¿ WhyBeNormal ? 00:21, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Every time I've seen discussion regarding an article being too "how toish," - comments to the author(s) of the article generally direct them to move that content to a Wikibook /shrug -- Naha| (talk) 05:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Deleting the content seems bad when there is no place to move it to. Perhaps we need to clearly establish that wikibooks can be short, and that this is where such material belongs. No reason to delete helpful stuff! Brokenfrog 07:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused where to draw the line on this sometimes. I mostly work on articles in the horticulture, gardening, and agriculture categories, and there is a bit of "how-tooishness" to a lot of articles there. Part of this might be because gardening encyclopedias (the kind printed on paper) have a lot of how-tooish content. Perhaps part of the problem is that these fields are applied, as opposed to theoretical, and so many articles there are describing methods and techniques. I get a bit worried that someone will get into deletion mode in those categories, thereby scaring off a lot of people with a lot of knowledge, who would otherwise be able to provide valuable content. Perhaps there needs to be a bit more leeway when it comes to applied sciences? SB Johnny 14:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
HOWTOs are great. Linearized articles dealing with procedures in the way they would typically be executed are excellent resources to refer to. Jimbo says were doing this for That Girl in Africa. We should give her all the tools She needs, by covering applications and techniques. If howto format is unacceptable, an example of procedures and expectations may suffice. (Deletion is not the default solution) Ieopo 15:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
There are a couple of places online where one can place how-to Articles I would suggest my site www.OpenTutoprial.com which is uses MediaWiki or wiki.ehow.com which is inspired by MediaWiki OpenTutorial is still in it's very early infancy but has potential to be a great resource with some help of course. -- Hapa 03:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Added category: Category:Articles_containing_how-to_sections. Self-explanatory. Santtus 12:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe the elimination of the words "for the benefit of minors" has created a lot of the confusion now at Wikipedia talk:Censorship.
The fact is, Wikipedia is censored, and it has to be. As I pointed out on Wikipedia talk:Censorship, we have no images, thankfully, at vomit. We also don't show the picture in question at goatse.cx.
I think we need to be more specific about what is not censored. I believe the wording should be something along the lines of: Indecency and blasphemy are not censored on Wikipedia. I believe indecency was what was meant in the original wording of the policy. -- Mwalcoff 05:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
If WP is not censored at all what does the phrase "obviously inappropriate content" refer to? Localzuk, do you think anything flies? I.e. that we should have simulated child porn pics @ child pornography? (these are not illegal, look quite real and are widely available). Mikker ... 14:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to "Wikipedia is not censored for minor" translation, lot of censorship happens in Japanese wikipedia. No inclusion of name or photos of vicitims of crimes for example. Can you change it to "Wikipedia is not censored to cater to political, social, religious, or any other kind of cultural sensitivities." FWBOarticle
Hi, I'm fairly new to Wikipedia and have just observed a user copying large bulks of writing from within an external source and putting it in wikipedia. Is this allowed or does it need to be reworded before it can be added? I just want to clarify before raising the point with the user himself. Nobleeagle (Talk) 06:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
After finding one article that was completely on the making of a food product, I searched for others and found several very recipe-oriented articles. To say that a certain sauce is usually made with the following ingredients, or a vegetable can be cooked or eaten in some of these ways is acceptable, but listing the actually preparation and/or measurement of ingredients does not seem conducive to an encyclopedia.
A grouchy rant for the day.
Perhaps this should be integrated with "Wikipedia is not a blog" or "Wikipedia is not a soapbox", but:
Several critics of Wikipedia (including the noisy crowd at such places as wikitruth, wikipedia review, and a few other forums) seem to think that because Wikipedia is a forum that anybody can edit--it is (or should be) a free speech platform which must suffer the rants, opinions, and beliefs of anyone who wishes to write here (regardless of how encyclopedic)--and that many Wikipedia policies, both those (like WP:NPOV and WP:V) which apply only to articles, and those (especially WP:NPA), which apply project-wide, somehow constitute an infringement of their "rights". (And that users who are disciplined and/or banned for violating Wikipedia policy are being "censored" or "oppressed" or such).
We probably should emphasize loudly and clearly: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Everything we do is intended to build a better encyclopedia; there is no reason whatsoever the project should tolerate behavior or content which is counter-productive to that end. Users who wish to rant on their favorite topic (say, Israel--a popular topic, it seems, among the WR crowd), should get a blog and do so. Of course, it happens that Wikipedia is a popular and well-read website, whereas most blogs are routinely ignored--and many with axes to grind think that their opinions will get a better airing if presented here, and especially so if presented as encyclopedic fact (or as a notable point of view) in the article space. The fact that nobody cares about someone's blog doesn't entitle users to exploit Wikipedia's good reputation in order to more widely disseminate (before a larger audience) editorials that the world at large would, in most cases, otherwise ignore.
Wikipedia is not a free-speech platform, and is under no obligation to endure the rants of every drive-by malcontent.
Rant off. -- EngineerScotty 00:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree completely. Wikipedia is not a place for free speech; it is already established that Wikipedia is not a free hosting service, or a soapbox, but like you, I know that some people still feel like Wikipedia is a place for free speech. Andrea Parton 01:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
It would perhaps be more acceptable to all concerned to say something like "Free Speech comes second to making a good encyclopedia." - after all, we value free speech - just not when it screws up the articles. SteveBaker 03:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
This discussion makes me think about the recent debate on userboxes that I have seen on Wikipedia. I agree with the NPOV and no personal attacks policies, but I feel like the former should apply only to the encyclopedic namespaces, not to user pages, talk pages, or project pages. I feel like userboxes of a political nature should be allowed, as long as they are not potentially offensive, but some, including Jimbo, disagree with me. Every day, userboxes pertaining to political, religious, and polemical beliefs are deleted, and Jimbo has discouraged their use, as he says they "attract the wrong kinds of people and give the wrong impression of what it means to be a Wikipedian." Many others feel that such userboxes are helpful to the project by allowing Wikipedians to state their inherent biases on their user pages. Even though it's been established that user pages are not meant for lengthy biographies or to host personal websites, userboxes are still highly controversial.
Well, with that controversy aside, free speech is valued on almost all talk pages, as long as it is not [[WP:CIVIL|incivil], profane, libelous, it does not violate copyright, and it is not patent nonsense. Generally, topics on talk pages are expected to be related to the subject of the article. Differing points of view are encouraged in articles, as long as they are all represented fairly and are all verifiable. After all, this is a free-content encyclopedia, but the really important word there is encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a place for political propaganda, advertising, vanity content, and a number of other things. Information in articles must be verifiable and neutral. I don't know that saying that Wikipedia is not a free speech platform really says anything that is not already stated in Wikipedia policy. I think saying that "Free speech comes second to making a good encyclopedia" leaves out a great deal in terms of what is acceptable on Wikipedia and what is not.
Andrea Parton 00:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Recently, the following text was removed from Wikipedia:Autobiography:
with the summary "letting people correct factual errors about themselves is inconsistent with official policy" and refering to #Soapbox contradiction.
That section quotes the ArbCom ruling "Editors should avoid contributing to articles about themselves or subjects in which they are personally involved, as it is difficult to maintain NPOV while doing so" from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt#Writing about yourself. Ken Arrombee claims that this implies that people may not correct errors in articles about themselves. However, I think that the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt/Proposed decision#Writing about yourself and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Carl Hewitt/Workshop#Writing about yourself clearly shows that the Arbitration Committee did not want to put an absolute ban autobiographical editing.
I think that "you should feel free to correct mistaken or out-of-date facts about yourself" reflects Wikipedia practice. It was added to Wikipedia:Autobiography during the above-mentioned ArbCom case for that reason and I think there was little discussion because it reflects the consensus. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 11:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The policy only mentions the ArbCom ruling, which as I said is not meant to ban autobiographical editing in all circumstances. Furthermore, the "see Wikipedia:Autobiography" suggests that that point of the policy is meant to summarize Wikipedia:Autobiography. So, I don't think there is a policy supporting an unqualified ban.
However, apparently you think there is. How about clarifying the policy in the following way:
For reference, the current wording is:
-- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 10:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Or perhaps it's easier to change the ArbCom decision being quoted. The principles
are on the same subject, and they clearly do not ban autobiographical editing. By the way, I haven't found any discussion here about adding the ArbCom ruling. Is there none? -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 10:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Ken, I was proposing to replace the ArbCom ruling by another one. I think it would be helpful if you proposed some text yourself. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Plugwash, the text "Of course, you should feel free to correct mistaken or out-of-date facts about yourself …" was at Wikipedia:Autobiography, not here; but your make a good point that sexual orientation should be excluded.
I had a look at the history of this page and found the version before it was changed to include the ArbCom ruling:
Actually, I like this version better than my previous proposal. However, I'm not so keen on the sentence "A very few … after some debate." and I propose that it is replaced by some kind of warning, for instance,
-- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that the ArbCom, in order to handle one bad case, made a ruling far broader than they should have, and people are scurrying to ignore the ruling in ways vague enough to not cast aspersions on ArbCom rulings in general. I don't think that's going to work. If you don't make it clear that this ruling applies to one editor and not "editors", it's going to come up again and again. My proposal, such as it is, is that if that ruling isn't valid, we should outright say "please ignore it." How to do this without going into too much detail, I don't really know, but having a ruling which contradicts both policy and other rulings *is* a problem, and needs to be solved somehow. Ken Arromdee 13:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Is it? Should we have an article on every website on the net, using that article as source, or not? Should we document every occurrence on the web, given the web acts as a reference guide to what occurs on it? I say no, we need third party sources to build articles, but I'm interested in opinions. Hiding Talk 21:01, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not need an article on every website out there. I think that falls under the policy that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. That said, articles on websites should be written according to the notability guidelines. Andrea Parton 23:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
How do other people read the mirror part of "Wikipedia is neither a mirror nor a repository of links, images, or media files"? I take that to mean that WP should not duplicate the content of another page (unless it substantially changes it, in which case it is no longer a mirror). I've read another interpretation that this applies to mirroring repositories of links and that WP may mirror encyclopedic content. I think the neither/nor excludes that reading. Шизомби 00:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I understand completely how everyone feels "indiscriminate collections of information," and I fully agree that random information bits have no place here, however when it comes to anime characters with special "attacks" that they use I feel differently as they can be an important part of these characters and the story that they tell.
As for Wikipedia policy, I quote "Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic" which the character attacks do very much.
Not only do the attacks give the Wikipedia readers a feel for each character's unique fighting style, but they give insight into their personalities and help reinforce their attitudes. Take Monkey D. Luffy from One Piece for example, all his attacks are based on real objects and weapons (Pistol, Rifle, Windmill) thus reinforing the idea that even though he's a pirate on an unimaginable journey, he is in essence a normal person. In contrast take someone like Eneru, also from One Piece whose attack's are mostly based on various Thunder deites, thus reinforcing the fact that he sees himself as a god and nothing less. In closing I feel very strongly that they are essential to the character's Wikipedia profiles and as a loyal fan to Manga, Anime and the hard working people who create them and will do everything I can to keep them in their rightful place, because if they were not significant then why would writers and animators bother to make them in the first place? ( KingKogs 7 May 1:46 GMT)
The arbitration committee ruled on February 17, 2006 that: "Editors should avoid contributing to articles about themselves, their direct family or subjects in which they are personally involved, as it is difficult to maintain NPOV while doing so." [1] Creating overly abundant links and references to autobiographical articles, or to articles in which you have a personal stake, is similarly unacceptable.
Does this mean that I cannot contribute to an article about the school I am studying in? Does the 'personally involved' phrase prevent me to contribute? blooz 21:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)blooz
So far I have not been able to find an official definition of the word "Abbitis"
Here are my search results so far:
Page 242, 1776 by David McCullogh
The Southern Campaigns of the American Revolution, Vol. 1, No. 1 September 2004, Charles B. Baxley, editor
Here are the results when you type 'English definition of abbitis' in Google:
MEMOIRS OF THE CIVIL WAR, W. L. TRUMAN
-- 66.90.229.82 14:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)JorgeG
I have seen many new users refer to Wikipedia as simply "Wiki", which is incorrect because a wiki does not necessarily mean Wikipedia. SCHZMO ✍ 19:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
There is a difference between uppercap Wiki and lowercap wiki.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems sensible for me to use WP as the shorthand for Wikipedia. "Wiki" is increasingly confusing given the increasing number of other well-known wikis. -- Apantomimehorse 06:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
allthough WP or wp or Wp are simpler, and wiki is a word in and of itself wiki/Wiki as shortenting of Wikipedia is obviously in referance to Wikiepedia when used on wikipedia, I doubt anyone could be stupid enough to think that the sentance, how can i add images on wiki? to mean anything else than How Can I add images to Wikipedia? Furthermore even though there are a plethora of entitties that use the wiki prefex or the term wiki in their names Wikipedia is by far the most widely known even if not the first.
Oh and Piotrus, what is the differance between upper and lower case wiki(Wiki), you say there is but fail to mention it, i find that would be of note, and i am also curious. Qrc2006 22:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Discussion transferred here from a deletion page on a List (with minor revision to remove topic specific comments)... I think the comment transcends that specific area...
We need to get beyond… well I think so… well I don’t think so… well, I still think so… well I still don’t think so…
Anyone else think it is time to move beyond the philosphy "What Wikipedia is not" and develop criteria against which article can be judged when they are proposed?
UmptanumRedux 16:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Idea by User:Peripitus inserted into list above. Williamborg 02:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Ideally, the clearest description of something is both what it is and is not if defined to the fullest extensions imaginable. However pessimistic "is not" statements may seem, they are reasonably effective in most situations in preventing something from being interpreted as what it most definitely is not. And for those concerned with the flaws of such logic, I infer with humour from this article that Wikipedia is an experiment in communism, as some so often accuse it of being. -- Comrade Tiki 05:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Instruction manuals - while Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places, and things, Wikipedia articles should not include instruction - advice ( legal, medical, or otherwise), suggestions, or contain "how-to"s. This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, instruction manuals, video game guides, and recipes.
Recently this guideline has been used in a AFD debate regarding a page entitled Structures of the GLA. It has been settled that the page can not be maintained here in its current form, a discion which I accept; however, this AFD has been riddled with claims that the page voilates the game manual clause of WP:NOT.
By their very nature both real-time strategy and turn-based strategy games rely almost exclusively on a collection of units and structures that are operated by a player or by the player’s opponent. I feel that there must be a way for this encyclopedic information to be listed and maintained here on Wikipedia without violating the game manual provision. To that end, I feel that a better definition of a game manual as it pertains to RTS and TBS games is needed here. I submit that a list of units and/or structures that appear in RTS or TBS games, the general roles of those units and/or structures (ie vehical manufacturing, resource gathering, etc), and any upgrades for units/structures appearing in these games is encyclopedic and therefore should not be in violation of the game manual clause. By omitting the cost, tech level, and prerequists we aviod produce a game manual by requiring a person to either research such information or purchase the game. TomStar81 01:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Consider a seperate argument then: Why do we have game articles on dedicated charcters from Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon and so forth? It seems somewhat unfair that those pages are not being nominated for deletion, but a page with RTS structures is. All I am asking is for some wiggle room with these two types of games as it pertains to Wikipedia. Outsorcing information to other websites when it could be covered here in a legitimate and community agreed upon way seems bias. TomStar81 23:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I recently supported the deletion of List of fighting game terms, as it was a list of definitions. However, I wonder if I have erred, and should have instead supported its transmogrification into a Glossary of fighting game terms. What would be the key differences? Here are some rough ideas - please contribute, with a view to formalising the distinction somewhere: A glossary should have:
In this case, that list came pretty close to fulfilling these requirements, and with a bit of trimming, would have gotten there. Perhaps an admin could undelete it for review? Stevage 09:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to add the following to Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information:
We have deleted a number of articles including Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of SWIFT codes (Second nomination) where the content of the article is simply an extract of an offsite database. Others we have kept, like List of ...For Dummies books, despite the fact that the entire content is a (non-authoritative) copy-paste of the lists on the publisher's website which appears to include around 1,400 entries, among which as far as I can tell there is not one single bluelink despite the fact that we have recently doubled the number of For Dummies books on which we have articles. There are now two of them.
Database copy & pastes are not technically a copyvio as long as the data is presented in an obvious order (or so I'm told), but there is surely nothing encyclopaedic about copying and pasting lists of text - especially if a fully authoritative source is freely available online. It was noted in a discussion some time back that if you find yourself copying and pasting the bulk of an article from another source it's a sure sign that what you are doing is wrong. Whether that's entirely true I don't know, but I do know that, for example, maintaining a mirror of the UK's list of statutory instruments for 1996, all 3,278 of them, of which only a handful are bluelinked, is probably less useful than having a category for the articles and adding a link to the OPSI website which lists the rest. Yes, we're not paper, but neither are we the Yellow Pages.
This would not prevent a Wikiproject from making an article in Project space with a number of redlinks for filling by interested parties, but it would reduce the problem of lists which are mirrors at sme fixed point in time of an easily available authoritative source which is, if the reader wants current information, the place to go. It seems to be what was meant by WP:NOT a mirror or collectionof external links, but I find some reluctance to interpret that guideline as covering copy and paste from database extract or online databases. Just zis Guy you know? 13:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that many location articles, especially the ones about towns and villages that are popular tourist destinations, read like a travel brochure. Words like "stunning", "splendid views", "offers four star accomodation" and other suggestions about what to do and where to visit blah blah blah. It never fails to piss me off that no matter how obvious it is that this is an ENCYCLOPEDIA people still write up articles that seem to've been copied straight out of the Going Places guide. Perhaps we need some legislation on this? -- Badharlick 12:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Following a Village Pump discussion here, I would like a propose a change to the wording of section 2 of the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" section of this policy:
I propose changing this to clarify that disambiguation pages are not lists of dictionary definitions:
Please also see the related proposals here and here. Thanks. Carcharoth 13:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the section states:
I am afraid this section is needs to be rewritten and retitled. Currently it is a collections of claims, some of them true, some of them disputable, but all apparently lumped together in this one section without much thought to their connection and even less to the section title ( bureaucracy). Let me divide the claims into several groups:
I am awaiting your comments.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a democracy? Well, I think it should be! Let's have a vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.217.225 ( talk • contribs)
Would anybody have any objection if I expanded point 1 from WP is not "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons." to "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional)"? Vizjim 15:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest adding that WP is not a repository of pointless trivia. Some articles have grown a section on "<X> in popular culture", which is typically a mind-numbing enumeration of appearances in films, video games, etc. Leibniz 16:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Nimur was bold and added a new section to this page without discussion here. I'm not going to revert it because I think it's a good addition but we should probably discuss the addition some. I particularly like the wording on the caution against autobiographical entries. We do not have an absolute prohibition but it's never a good idea to try to write about yourself. The link to Wikipedia:Notability is also explicitly described as a guideline, not a policy-level rule. I think the wording strikes a very good balance. Rossami (talk) 03:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I've seen a number of articles, especially radio articles start to contain full schedules of television and radio programmes. Because schedules change often and don't usually contain information about the TV/radio station of the article, could it be classed that schedules in articles can not be seen as encyclopedic, and would be better suited to a dedicated TV/Radio guide? Sonic 18:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what "instruction manual" actually means. Someone proposed deletion for a page I created, because of this "instruction manual" policy. However it was a list, and not a how-to in any way. I think that some clarification needs to be made as to what an "instruction manual" is. Fresheneesz 19:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
To make this operational: Wikipedia articles should not contain anything unquoted in the second person, the imperative, or the exhortative:
(The caveat "unquoted" is because we may want to quote from sources which are in these forms.) -- FOo 20:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Eric Zorn, a journalist and blogger, coined a law in his blog, and then created the article Zorn's Law to legitimise it. This seems to exploit a hole in the WP:NOT rules, specifically the line "citing book, print, or reliable web resources demonstrates that the material is verifiable and is not merely the editor's opinion", which doesn't work when the editor is himself a print-medium author. Further discussion on Talk:Zorn's Law.... / blahedo ( t) 15:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
A bit of advice I've included in some speedy nominations, as part of RC patrol: Wikipedia is neither the white pages nor the yellow pages; we're not a directory of people, business, or other organizations. The fact that some people or businesses are given articles doesn't mean that anybody gets one. -- EngineerScotty 23:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link to a Nazi propaganda, anti-Semitic film called "The Enternal Jew". It was being linked to from a neo-Nazi website through Wikipedia. The film is banned everywhere in the world and only available for viewing with special permission or explicit educational licenses.
Was I right to remove it? --— Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.194.50 ( talk • contribs)
It was linked to from "The Eternal Jew" page.
Last week, there was a case in which a user had put a male pornographic picture on his user talk page. He was convinced to take it down, but it appears there was no Wikipedia policy specifically addressing the issue.
The problem was not that the picture exists on Wikipedia but rather that it was placed where people would not expect to see it. If someone wants to see porno, that's that person's perrogative, but no one should be "subjected" to it if he or she wasn't looking for it.
I'd like to propose an addition to this project to address this situation:
While shocking or disturbing content, such as sexually explicit or violent images, is not prohibited on Wikipedia, it, like all content, should only be placed where it is appropriate. No one should be subjected to shocking or disturbing content he or she was not looking for. This is not simply an issue of people seeing something they don't like. Users can get into serious trouble at school or work for viewing what their teacher or boss considers "inappropriate."
A topless photo might be appropriate on an article about a porn star, but should not be placed in an article about the porn star's home town, even if she is the only famous person to come out of the town.
Editors be sure that any links to potentially shocking or disturbing content clearly indicate what is on the other end of the link. For example, do not simply write, " John Atherton was executed for buggery." Because "buggery" is not a commonly used word in much of the English-speaking world, some users would be likely to click on that link, not realizing it leads to an article on anal sex.
Mwalcoff 20:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Lately there have been some deletion debates about articles that are, essentially, lists of how to translate proper nouns into other languages. For instance, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of titles of Harry Potter books in other languages or Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of European cities in different languages. Sometimes, translations can make good subject matter for an article, if people have written interesting things about translation (see, for instance Harry Potter in translation). I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't have articles where the only purpose is to provide the translation of X between languages. So far, the only counterarguments I've seen are that the translations might be useful... but to me, that's too much along the lines of "all useful information should be in Wikipedia" which policy rejects ( WP:NOT). The only kind of translation I've found interesting as a translation on its own are unusual non-literal translations; for instance, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" is translated into German as "... Chamber of Fear," which is pretty different. There's GOT to be a point where we don't accept translation. I'd like to add "Wikipedia is not a translation guide" or "Wikipedia is not an intra-language dictionary" or something similar to the list. Any thoughts? Mango juice talk 17:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Cookbook and depository for every minor comic book character ever conceived. Can we add those two as well? BJK 23:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Item 2 under "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files" says
I think this is outdated as far a lists are concerned. First of all the term structured list isn't defined anywhere and it isn't clear to me what it means. The part about "assist with the organisation of articles" makes it sound like the only lists that are allowed are the topic lists that predated the Category implementation. Yet lists are allowed. There are guidelines that instruct the best way to format and present lists and not just those that assist with the organisation of articles. My suggestion would be to remove this item as it hasn't been enforced for a long time. -- JeffW 16:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I was reading the Wikipedia policy regarding who Wikipedia "is not censored." It says that the content cannot violate the laws of Florida. I was thinking, since this material is accessible to anybody without any kind of obvious warning about objectionable content, is there some concern about children accessing the material and how that could be a violation of the law? I understand that Wikipedia is provided primarily as an educational resource, but there's no doubt that some images (such as the one for the Prince Albert piercing) wouldn't be too hard to be considered pornographic or unnecessarily lacking in educational value. As an avid supporter of Wikipedia, I just want to know what the policy is on this, and, if I don't understand the law sufficiently, what prevents the Wikimedia Foundation from being required to institute some sort of click-through notice of potentially offensive content. If this was addressed previously, forgive my ignorance; Wikipedia can be so dense with content that I sometimes find adequate research a daunting task. Please be gentle when answering my question; I'm relatively well-schooled in law, but I have delicate personal sensibilities. Thanks. Lemonsawdust 10:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Given guidance on writing about fiction, any objections to adding the following to Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information?
10. Plot summaries - Wikipedia articles should not act as repositories for plot summaries, annotated or not, but should offer plot points where germane to sourced, critical discussions of the work, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance.
I think that's common consensus? Hiding Talk 17:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Recently, a bunch of AfDs were made on lists of minor things in Star Wars. While I agree that this information in the current state should NOT be on this site, we also have to look at it this way: if we delete fictional cruft lists, we risk the chance of each minor topic exploding out. Having one beats having 150; and lists always have the potential to become well-respected articles (per Spira (Final Fantasy X)). I think this whole idea to be clarified. — Deckill e r 19:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I am a regular Wikibookian, and my attention has been drawn to inaccuracies in this page. I have therefore made this amendment. The previous version of this Wikipedia policy was stating that Wikibooks should be used for FAQs and Instruction Manuals. However, this is not true. Wikibooks is for textbooks and annotated texts - nothing else.
Those of you who wish to contribute to our ever-expanding collection of textbooks and annotated texts are most welcome to come over to Wikibooks to help, 86.129.72.25 20:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If so, why? If not, where did it go? Santtus 15:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Though very useful for reasearch, the Wikipedia does not directly contain information or opinion that should be cited as an authority. This admonition applies to editors as much as readers, for Wikipedia articles should not be cited as an authority by other Wikipedia articles.
Although Wikipedeans endeavor to develop and maintain articles with high stardards of verifiability and NPOV (neutral-point-of-view), this effort is never complete. Moreover, while the vast majority of articles become more accurate and NPOV over time, articles take backsteps daily as vandals, spammers, crackpots, and polemicists pollute the site; these changes are almost always noticed and reverted shortly after by Wikipedians, many of whom pay special attention to the recent changes page.
There are four primary reasons for incorrectness in the Wikipedia:
The first kind usually produces the most eggregious errors, but they are often therefore easy to spot by those watching the recent changes page; when this is the case, the errors are not tolerated and quickly removed. The second and third kinds are not always obvious, and many editors grant leeway to these edits with the idea that they will be improved upon later, especially if the edits are additions of information rather than changes to existing information. The fourth kind can be pernicious: editors are sometimes lulled by the mere presence of a citation and so don't investigate further; even when editors do investigate, it's often hard to determine the quality of a source, and too detailed examinations and critiques of sources are viewed by some editors as constituting original reasearch, something not allowed by policy. -- Apantomimehorse
I don't really think it's within the spirit of WP:NOT, which has always described the general types of content we don't include. This rule, while describing something Wikipedia is not, takes a sharp departure in that it's purely about the quality of articles. -- W.marsh 22:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
(←Undent)
Hmmm. I realise it's important to provide sources for 'most everything you write. Right now I'm just wondering if it's possible to go too far. *scratches head*. Perhaps there's some sort of real life limit, where we face some sort of diminishing returns? Kim Bruning 08:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary policy page is actually narrower than Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Policymakers, please put them in sync, otherwise a broken telephone game sometimes happens. `' mikka (t) 00:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I recommend changing the wording of:
Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference.
to
Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. Merged groups of small articles based on a core topic are certainly permitted; see List of locations in Spira for an example.
What do you think? This should clarify a lot of the misinterpretations shown on AfD. — Deckill e r 06:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently removed the alma mater and fight song lyrics from two high school articles ( St. Edward High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Saint Ignatius High School (Cleveland, Ohio)) citing the sub-section of WP:NOT that excludes Wikipedia as a place for an indiscriminate collection of information. Another editor brought up the issue in this discussion on my user talk page. I'd like some input into this issue. Do high school fight song and alma mater lyrics qualify as an indiscriminate collection of information? -- backburner001 13:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
We have "Wikipedia is not an experiment in anarchy" "Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy". I thought it used to be just "wikipedia is not anarchy" and "wikipedia is not a democracy." Oh well.
Can we add "Wikipedia is not communism." Or "wikipedia is not an experiment in communism." Though, " an experiment in " sounds kinda weak and should just be removed from this page entirely--it just takes the certainly out of a phrase to say "an experiment in"
My request is because I've seen a lot "wikipedia is communism" vandalism recently and if wikipedia just says it's not communism, this would be a good thing. Anomo 23:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd like this page to include a section on how Wikipedia is not a fan page. Many of the articles I read and edit are entertainment-related, and far too many of them have very serious tone and NPOV issues. Articles on comedians and shows read as a loose colection of various editors' retellings of their favorite jokes from that source. Many include far more content about a single editor's pet interest or concern, usually with lots of original research, than that issue comes close to deserving. While all of this is clearly against Wikipedia policy, I think that spelling out that the encyclopedia should not read as a fan page would be helpful. Croctotheface 09:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I would like to add a section that Wikipedia is not a Gossip Rag. That is, it is not a repository for disparaging non-notable (not nationally or internationally known) persons. I have seen entirely too much of this, particularly when it comes to lawyers. I have battled one article that clearly fit within 'speedy delete' attack page, and was finally deleted, and I was astonished that a few people defended it so intensely. It was initially unsourced, and after lengthy explanation of why it fit within 'speedy delete', the author added a couple of references -- a local newspaper and "Overlawyered", which is notorious as a political group with dubious validity. I do not see anywhere in this "What Wikipedia is Not" that addresses this. jawesq 20:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
It would appear that lists of words violate the provision that Wikipedia should not have articles which define individual words, nor should it include Lists of such definitions. However, we have Category:Lists of words, Category:Lists_of_slang and Category:Lists of phrases, among others. Policy is descriptive, not prescriptive. Is this policy still being applied (in which case, all of these articles must be deleted), or not (in which case the wording of the policy needs to be changed). Guettarda 21:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Wonder what it means when we have whole categories chock full of articles that violate the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not: 1. Dictionary definitions, 2. Lists of such definitions, 3. A usage guide or slang and idiom guide." guidance. Perhaps it means that there are "lists of words" that we as the Wikicommunity find acceptable and it is time to rethink our view. Perhaps we add the qualification, that Wikipedia does have a place for terms that 1) do have a common denominator, 2) the information is useful, 3) the subject is studied in an academic context, and 4) the page is NOT better suited to a different wikiproject.
In reviewing and thinking about this topic I became aware that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of gay slang words and phrases is currently discussing this and read Wantman's comments (some of which are plagarized above). But I do think he's on to a valid perspective and that Wikipolicy, yet once again, may need to adjust.
Thanks for flagging this topic! Williamborg (Bill) 22:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Since Wiktionary isn't really set up for thematic lists, these articles can't really be transwikied to there. In some cases they might be appropriate for wikibooks, but only if there is a text there that can incorporate these lists (best to ask around at the Staff lounge before "dumping" them there). In any case it seems to me that they do no harm here, and do serve to clarify language differences. -- SB_Johnny | talk 14:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
After a bit of research I found that the Wiktionary system for making such lists is to put them in the Appendix namespace. A good example can be seen at Wikt:Appendix:Australian rhyming slang. Compare to Wikipedia's Australian rhyming slang. The two are very similar though there are items on each list not appearing on the other. This 'Appendix' namespace was apparently only added to Wiktionary in March of this year, though similar pages had been hosted under the 'Wiktionary' namespace prior to that. With inter-wiki links I think these Appendix pages make a pretty good substitute for the Wikipedia equivalents. Having articles on Wikipedia about the process/types of loan words, slang, jargon, or whatever and lists of such on Wiktionary, each cross-linked to the other, seems to make sense. Possibly we could change some of the Wikipedia articles to just be links to the Wiktionary equivalents... not as good as an 'interwiki redirect' (which would be ideal), but close enough. What do people think? -- CBD 12:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
You can make our Australian rhyming slang article better by editing the list at Wiktionary to add any missing entries, excising the mini-dictionary from the Wikipedia article to leave the stub encyclopaedia article content that discusses the slang itself, and cross-linking the two. Compare what was done with List of English words of Greek origin. Uncle G 13:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
As a resource that may be helpful, I've knocked together an initial list of articles that may be candidates for migration to Wiktionary - each article given its own Wiktionary Appendix, for example. It's a sub-page of this debate, here
/Candidate lists to be migrated to Wiktionary. It is by no means perfect - I can't get the links to the categories of Lists of Words and Lists of English Words to work correctly, but perhaps it'll help us to hone policy, and provide a set of thought-experiment test cases. I would hope we would contact recent editors of these articles/lists to garner their opinions before migrating them.
WLD 17:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Since User:JzG has removed most of my announcements from the various slang glossary talk pages and from the Village Pump, I humbly withdraw my proposal. -- List Expert 12:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
NOTICE: I'VE POSTED A NEW PROSAL FROM SCRATCH at Slang glossaries, BELOW. -- List Expert 22:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Will made a good point for verification and things unverifiable in the list should be removed. Also, wikipedia is not a dictionary so it shouldn't have dictionary stuff. Anomo 05:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
. Hope that helps. WLD 10:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)"some editors may object if you remove material without giving people a chance to find a source, particularly when the material is not obviously wrong, absurd, or harmful. Instead of removing such material immediately, editors are encouraged to move it to the talk page, or to place the {{fact}} template after the disputed word or sentence, or to tag the article by adding {{not verified}} or {{unsourced}} at the top of the page"
Information on Wikipedia must be reliable and verifiable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
The problem with lists of modern slang is that it they are inherently unverifiable. Except for a few outdated slang dictionaries there are no secondary sources. Primary sources, such as song lyrics, do not give clear definitions. Foreign slang words are doubly unverifiable. There is not good reason why these words, if verifiable, shouldn't be included in Wictionary rather than Wikipedia. - Will Beback 16:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I've posted a new proposal below concerning Slang glossaries. -- List Expert 00:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" maxim is being widely abused at AFD as a synonym for "I don't like the subject of this article.". In part this is because editors are applying excessively wide definitions of what is an "indiscriminate collection", and not actually looking at the bullet points in the list at all. I've therefore moved "news reports" to "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought" (which is what primary source news reports are) and moved several "indiscriminate collection" items to the old "Wikipedia is not a directory" maxim that we used to have. The other "indiscriminate collection" items require attention. Uncle G 10:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to try this again. Keep in mind that there are those who seem to be trying to thwart the proposal process itself. I am in the process of placing notices of this discussion on the talk pages of all of the slang glossaries listed below and on the Village Pump. If those notices get reverted or blanked, please help the process by restoring them. Thank you. Also, this is a discussion specifically about whether or not WP:NOT should be changed, and if so what it should say concerning slang glossaries. This is not a discussion of WP:VER, which of course applies to articles of all types. The point is, that many AfDs are being nominated on the grounds that WP:NOT disallows slang glossaries, but many such glossaries have survived the process, and the number of slang glossaries is growing. Some of these articles have been on Wikipedia for years, and some of them have survived multiple AfD attempts. The situation is that there is an ongoing battle between those who are trying to enforce Wikipedia policy by removing slang glossaries from it, and those who defend the glossaries in the AfD discussions because they believe they add value to Wikipedia. Because a great deal of time and effort is being expended in frequent conflicts over the acceptability of slang glossaries and by extension the underlying policy, perhaps it would be beneficial to reevaluate the policy and change it to provide a solution to this dilemma. If some glossaries are acceptable, while others are not, the distinctions need to be spelled out.
Here's a partial list of slang glossaries on Wikipedia:
Some jargon glossaries on Wikipedia:
So the question remains: how do we solve the problem of the conflict between their existance and policy? Should the following policy be modified? Here's the relevant prose:
Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not:
Two possible solutions are:
Either of the above changes would prevent a lot of AfDs. -- List Expert 22:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the policy is clearly broken and needs to be fixed. The very essence of Wikipedia is that it can have a much broader depth and breadth of coverage than a paper encyclopedia because it is not limited by physical size. To cover non-academic subjects (like pop culture) and even many academic ones absolutely requires that the jargon of the subject be glossed. In a paper encyclopedia, these are usually brief glosses in the text as needed--but that's because of space limitations, and we can do better. Comprehensive glossaries by field are better. These things clearly don't belong as individual articles in Wiktionary, because most jargon is very context-specific and not relevant to the usage of the word itself (although certainly jargon words that have leaked into mainstream use rate an entry there.)
Secondly, let's make it clear that "jargon" and "slang" are two very different things, and need to be treated differently--the former is the context-specific language in which students of a particular field exchange ideas in ways that would be awkward or impossible using "normal" language. Such terms are part and parcel of the field of study itself and not covering them is tantamount to not covering the subject: things like Mathematical jargon, BDSM jargon, and Poker jargon are among these, and it would be downright silly and counterproductive to remove them--also, they don't violate the standard because the standard explicitly says that specialized glossaries are included and welcome. Trying to write articles on poker without definitions of jargon terms like "flop" or "draw" would be nearly impossible. The latter--"slang"--is something different; slang terms are generally one-for-one substitutes for ordinary language used by groups of people for social putposes such as group identification or exclusion. As far as I'm concerned, an entry on such a group and its slang is simply good, deep, coverage of that group, and absolutely belongs here as well.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, but it's not Britannica, nor should it be. We should not be bound by the standards of a medium that already does a fine job at what it does--we should follow guidelines that allow us to do what we do best, and that may be something very different. Yes, we want to uphold standards of quality in Wikipedia, but not at the expense of doing what we do best--having game players write about games, music fans write about music, and in general having non-academic people write about non-academic subjects that a paper encyclopedia doesn't have room to cover but that are interesting and informative to readers, and one thing we will always be better at than the Britannicas of the world.
Finally, I think it's important to relax a few of the other standards in jargon/slang articles for non-academic fields as well. For example, there simply aren't going to be any published secondary sources on some fields, and it would therefore be impossible to cite them. In such cases, clearly using primary sources is necessary despite the "no original research" guideline, and talk pages should be used to hash out the best coverage.
-- LDC 19:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The root problem here is that the policy says 'lists of definitions' are not allowed, but 'glossaries' are. Look up 'glossary' in your dictionary and it will tell you that it is a list of definitions. :]
Obviously, the intent was to include some subset of definition lists as allowed, but there is great disagreement as to the extent of that subset... and some would remove it entirely. To further complicate things that dichotomy has been in the policy a long time... dating to well before Wiktionary having any capacity to handle such lists. Now that Wiktionary has the 'Appendix' namespace, added six months ago specifically for purposes of hosting such information, a case can be made that the reasons 'glossaries' (of whatever subjects) were previously allowed in Wikipedia are now debatable.
I think it is generally agreed that lists of general words (e.g. 'List of English words beginning with Ar-') do not belong in Wikipedia. That being the case, and some people feeling that slang, jargon, and/or all word-lists should be removed from Wikipedia, I'd prefer to host these lists in Wiktionary so that they could all be together for easier searching. Wiktionary has an entire namespace specifically set up for this kind of information. While it is a big change to migrate everything I think that is preferale to the ongoing bickering. Looking back you can find instances of this 'definitions lists' war from two years ago, if not earlier. It will doubtless continue to recur so long as they are found in Wikipedia - as some users will always feel they are inapropriate here. -- CBD 00:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
To sum up, glossaries (definition lists) with Wikipedia internal links are an essential part of Wikipedia. You cannot remove them without doing serious damage to the encyclopedia. There are thousands of them, from lists of 3 definitions imbedded in an article to large lists supporting prominent fields. There are even sets of glossaries. Wikipedia's mathematical glossaries are among the best on the Internet, and they'd be ruined by being moved to Wiktionary -- these glossaries are very well integrated into the subject and into Wikipedia. They have encyclopedic function. Removing them will reduce Wikipedia's usefulness. Transwiki'ing glossaries to Wiktionary is not the answer. -- List Expert 01:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
As an example of how these pages can be moved to Wiktionary see Wikt:Appendix:Sexual slurs. I basically copied List of sexual slurs, added 'w:' to the existing links, and then made all the highlighted words in the glossary list into Wiktionary links... a good portion of which turned out to be already defined there. A fairly easy process to create a page which provides all the information the Wikipedia article did plus links to full dictionary definitions of the listed words. -- CBD 23:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I can seem to find a section that matches this topic. But I've seen far to many rumors put into articles or whole articles that are rumors. So we need a section that references WP:OR in a way thats more direct about rumors. -- TheFarix ( Talk) 18:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Despite assurances of quality and good faith by most editors... the freedom given by wikipedia makes it unreliable. As per "Wikipedia is not an authority" above (which I think should be part of the main "What Wikipedia is not" article, but don't care enough to add it) and since citing sources is guideline and not policy, you can only rely on so much in wikipedia and really should always verify info from wikipedia against a second source (but not places like answers.com which tends to steal from wikipedia without citing and ends up just being cut-and-paste).
I'm sure most editors will consider this comment a trolling attempt, but they lack NPOV in this case. If you're a fan of wikipedia, you can't be neutral about it's major flaws. Even the wikipedia founder was nervous about article quality in a recent conference.
It seems that wikipedia's reliability is based on the premise of quantity of editors winning over sub-conscious bias and ever-present intellectual agendas present in all editors. How can wikipedia be not just regurgitation of other sources (straight copying or plagiarism) and avoid the inherent introduction of bias by "writing it in your own words"?
Event the more scientific articles rarely have citations except to inter-link to many other uncited articles. A good example is parallax which is most likely 99% accurate, but cites no sources and therefore fools you into thinking it's reliable just because it is well-formatted. This is representative of a majority of wikipedia content.
Wikipedia is better as information for an initial inquiry to get a direction, but not necessarily reliable.
Don't get me wrong, I like wikipedia. It just seems to be evolving into an ideology and self-verifying bureaucracy. -- Fandyllic 6:14 AM PDT 12 Aug 2006
No source is perfectly reliable, remember Nature article - Britannica also has 3 erros per article. Many academic papers once thought good are later proven to be wrong. Our content varies, with FAs being more reliable then stubs, but I think we are more reliable then most of the sources 'out there'. If we go with 'Wiki is not reliable', we may as well throw in other general statements like 'Wiki is not comprehensive, wiki is not academic, wiki is not WYSIWIG (yet) -> thus wiki is not that user friendly, wiki is not very accessible (disabled-friendly), wiki is not understood well...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
We have whole pages on Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Academic use. There's no real need to cram them in here, or to have this discussion here. This article describes what Wikipedia is not, which is distinct from how to make use of Wikipedia. Uncle G 16:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
...And, maybe, Wikipedia is not a MMORPG. (alternate: not a contest)
Just a suggestion of what is omitted, but what people often try to turn Wikipedia into. -- CP/M comm | Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 14:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
The image showing a soap is confusing. See soapbox. ← Humus sapiens ну? 08:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The wording of the "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" guideline currently undermines itself. I'm under the impression that it's a general rule and the bulleted list are just examples of things ruled out completely. The current wording implies the list is of the only areas where this guideline applies. Which is correct? Can something be deleted on the grounds of being "indiscriminate information" if it doesn't fit one of the categories mentioned? -- Dtcdthingy 20:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The following is not good: 'Note: Don't misinterpret that a disambiguation page is against the policy of what Wikipedia is not regarding "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files". A disambiguation page is here to resolve conflicts of articles carrying essentially the same title. It is not just for a reference of links or anything similar to that'.
Someone really oughta rewrite that. (Someone who is not me, my writing is also not good) -- Xyzzyplugh 04:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television_Stations#Newscast_schedules has seems to reached a moderate consensus that newscasts and other local programming of a station are notable and should be included in articles (or at least, enough people aren't objecting to it). Before I revise the section about radio "schedules" by permitting the addition of locally originated programming times in station articles (much like we have the times of network originated programming in articles such as 2005-06 United States network television schedule and the CBS#Fall_2006_schedule articles), I'd like to see some discussion. Certainly, it is a clear double standard to permit network schedules to be displayed but locally originated programs not to get the same treatment. Calwatch 05:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to ask your opinion on the interpretation about the rule "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball", with reference to relevant future events.
According to you, an article about the future season of a football club, whose only content is the fact that the club has signed an agreement to play in that season with its football federation, is relevant enough to supersed the "not a crystall ball" rule?
I am referring to articles like Adelaide United FC Season 2007-08, Adelaide United FC Season 2008-09, Adelaide United FC Season 2009-10.
(Note: I requested to remove these articles on the basis of non-notability and WP:NOT breaking on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject A-League. There, only the original author of the article, User:Daniel.Bryant, and another user, admin User:Wiki_alf, showed, rejecting my request — Daniel.Bryant also showing a rather arrogant attitude, if I am allowed to say. Since I was not convinced by their explanations, I brought the matter here.)
-- 217.26.87.7 11:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have a simple question: Is Wikipedia an atlas? -- Dijxtra 14:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I started the Maps of xx series as an attempt to create a good collections of maps of Wikipedia. Many encyclopedia have an atlas as part of the encyclopedia. What I will do is continuing the project, and I would like to see it becoming a WikiAtlas. Ideal would be if the entries wouldn't be named maps of XX but Atlas:xx under the en.wikipedia.org domain, so for example Atlas:Belgium ( [5]) would be the new name of Maps of Belgium. Electionworld Talk? 14:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that "An exception to this rule ("Wikipedia is not a dictionary") is for articles about the cultural meanings of individual numbers." Is this true? -- Grand Slam 7
there is a contradiction on this section as it mentions wikipedia is not for self promotion, which is not under the actual rules of what is not allowed on user pages and to which most admins use theirs as blatant self promotion of their wiki exploits
since it has been disregarded and tossed out again, once more i point out inconsistancy between statement of this page about user pages are not for self promotion, the user page's guidelines on what user pages are not, and many admins disregard for either correcting this page to more accurately reflect on actual policy or the policy of user pages not allowing self promotion in the first place.. now im gonna wait and get banned for speaking out and pointing out some flaws. 68.161.183.243 23:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
while im waiting and thought upon it I well admit the previous post would be something of harassment 68.161.183.243 00:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)