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I'd like input on a page move request from third parties working in the same project. What's the best way to do that? Joja lozzo 20:59, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The bot seems to be running erratically today for current RM updates. Vegaswikian ( talk) 00:35, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
When a requested move is to move an article to a title at which there is already a dab page (eg the request for Sean Kelly (cyclist) to be moved to Sean Kelly), this is also an implied request to move the dab page ( Sean Kelly to Sean Kelly (disambiguation), here). At present there is no notification of the proposed move on the dab page. Is this correct? Someone may well have the dab page on their watchlist, perhaps after doing major work on it, but not be watching all the disambiguated pages. Should the system not flag these move requests up for the benefit of editors who might want to comment? Should a move like this be requested in the first place as a "move of multiple pages"? Pam D 08:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I've just seen some objections to move requests based on "lack of rationale". I'd like to remind editors here that lack of rationale is not, in itself, an objection. The presumption here is always in favor of moving without question unless someone raises a good reason not to move a page. Our job is not to make sure people are moving pages for the right reasons; our job is to let moves happen when there's no good reason not to let them happen.
If it weren't for the technical restriction against moving pages to titles where there is non-trivial history, we wouldn't need RM at all. Remember that the move button doesn't require approval or permission to use in almost all cases. This page is just to assist with the minority of cases where good-faith moves are blocked. We're not customs agents, trying to sniff out suspicious or inadequately supported moves. It's rooted in AGF. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:42, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
The multiple move request at Talk:George VI doesn't seem to be showing up at the other articles' talk pages. Something awry with the bot? Or have I formatted it wrong?-- Kotniski ( talk) 17:20, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
This is getting excessive; several of these are weeks overdue, and discussions are curdling. Would an admin please go through these before somebody calls for Mediation? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The current backlog is nothing. We've held backlogs six times this size, for months at a stretch. I call for persistence, but also for patience. Nobody is going hungry or cold because the backlog is large here. If anyone is bothered by it, they should start closing moves. I'm working as hard as my pay rate demands, and usually much, much harder. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:45, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
So, I thought I'd come across a good solution to the confusing structure problem of this page: I was going to keep everything essentially the same, except swap sections 2 ("Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves") and 3 ("Uncontroversial requests"). The thought being that actually putting the controversial request info directly before the controversial requests would help lessen confusion.
But I go to make the edit, and, oddly, find that the lead and sections 1 and 2 aren't in the text box - those sections are transcluded from another page called Wikipedia:Requested moves/Header. So I can't swap sections 2 and 3. Anybody have a good reason why I shouldn't merge the text from Wikipedia:Requested moves/Header into the WP:RMtext box? Is it a technical thing? Thanks in advance, as I'm perplexed at the moment. Dohn joe ( talk) 22:39, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
The bot is now operating reasonably smoothly. For any feature requests, or if there are any issues, please leave a note on my talk page. Thanks, Hard Boiled Eggs [talk] 12:26, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
I've been removing requested move tags from userspace drafts and telling those who placed them that they should submit their new article to AFC. This was the plan according to this discussion. I've noticed that this is something that a bot should be able to search and execute fairly easily. Does anybody have bot experience? I've posted at bot requests (very backlogged and busy) and got some offers of help.
I've also realized that part of the reason these requests keep coming to RM is because of the wording of the {{ userspace draft}} template. It says "Finished? move the page". Autoconfirmed users can move pages, unless the target already exists or is protected, but newer users cannot, and as a result they attempt to move the page, then upon realizing they can't they follow instructions for a move request. This bites because these editors are getting the runaround. We might be able to direct these users to AFC if we change the template. Thoughts? Cliff ( talk) 21:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Does anyone else ever get confused by the way the requests are structured on the RM page? We have a section called "Uncontroversial requests", with subsections "Current requests" and "Contested requests", followed by a section called "Current discussions". That wording and structure has always struck me as confusing. "How can something be both uncontroversial and contested?" "What's the difference between current requests and current discussions?" I really doubt that I'm the only person who's asked those questions.
I'd like to propose this: 1) Get rid of the "Contested requests" section. If someone objects to an uncontroversial request, why don't we just direct them to relist it in the regular discussion section? 2) Rename the main section "Controversial requests". I'd take "current" out of the title, because all the discussions are current - we don't have a "Dormant discussions" or "Resolved discussions" section. Also, replacing "current" with "controversial" shows that it's the counterpoint to the "Uncontroversial requests" section.
Any thoughts? Dohn joe ( talk) 18:07, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
My thought of getting rid of the "Contested requests" section entirely is also more efficient, I think. Rather than using it as a waystation between uncontroversial and controversial requests, why not just direct people who object to simply relist it in the controversial request section (with their objection noted)? If no one pays attention to it after that, well, we have that situation not infrequently already. Dohn joe ( talk) 20:45, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
When a page is moved through this process, shouldn't all of its subpages also be moved automatically? I just put move requests on a bunch of subpages of a Wikiproject that was moved over a year ago (apparently without the knowledge of any "active" members, but that's another topic). ⇔ ChristTrekker 15:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Fixed
Dualus (
talk)
00:01, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The current request for the Occupy movement move should be:
But RM bot is overwriting it thusly. Please help. Thank you. Dualus ( talk) 23:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
“ | Then came the Great War ...Great Empires have been overturned ... but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again. | ” |
— Churchill February 16, 1922 |
See Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names
The 2 year moratorium on discussing page moves for article such as Republic of Ireland has ended. But the Arbcom decision that such requested moves should be made on the talk page of WikiProject Ireland Collaboration ( WT:IECOLL) is still in force. I think this needs to be added into WP:RM for two reasons:
I may have misunderstood the Arbcom ruling (or there may have been developments since 21 September 2011) so I'll post a request to WT:IECOLL asking an actively interested party to comment here. -- PBS ( talk) 04:26, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Note to closers: according to an ArbCom ruling of June 2009, confirmed in September 2011, discussions relating to the naming of Ireland articles ( Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Ireland (disambiguation)) must occur at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration. Any RM affecting these articles that is opened on the article talk pages or any other venue should be speedily closed, with a pointer to the ArbCom ruling.
Hi everyone, there are a couple of current RM bot discussions - particularly one regarding talk page notices based on the order of multi move requests. Please see my talk page to pitch in any feedback or suggestions. Thanks, Hard Boiled Eggs [talk] 03:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the proper process for listing the RM was followed at Talk:Seattle Sounders, but I do think that there is a clear consensus for moving (my opinion is colored by the fact that I listed the first RM, which was unsuccessful, and still support the move this time around). The discussion has been open for 20 days. Can an admin please take a look and judge appropriately? Sorry if this is not the proper forum for this type of request. Thanks! — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I'm not familiar with the finer points of the RM process but I'd appreciate it if some admin could consider moving Oscar Grant Plaza before the end of the RM debate. See the talk page for the details but the short version is WP:SNOW and WP:NOTADVOCATE. Pichpich ( talk) 22:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that anything in backlog for more than a week be relisted.
Than anything that has been relisted thrice be
or
65.94.77.11 ( talk) 12:39, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
This is a request I make of all RM proposal discussion closing admins... when you close a discussion as "no consensus", please explain why there is no community consensus. The lack of local consensus - lack of consensus among those actually participating in the discussion and !voting - is usually obvious, but the lack of community consensus about what to do when there is no local consensus is not as obvious.
In ENGVAR cases, for example, we're often supposed to go back to the variety of English used by the original contributor when there is no local consensus about which title/variety of English to use. But in many other cases while those participating might not agree, naming policy and guidelines which is presumably supported by community consensus might clearly indicate one particular title.
So, please, don't just say "no consensus". Make sure there is no "community consensus" about what to do as well as no local consensus. Then if you still think it's really "no consensus", explain why there is no default community consensus that applies in that case either. This can ultimately help identify holes in naming policy and guidelines. Thanks! -- Born2cycle ( talk) 18:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there a template to put a tag on the article page itself saying that a move has been requested? I’m concerned that notices on the article talk page and the Wikipedia:Requested moves page will not generate enough response.
This comes up because there is an editor who has been making dozens of name changes, many of them controversial, based on “no common name”, and several editors have been responded by asking him to request moves first
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]. However if his move request is not seen by people who read the article, and therefore generates no discussion, it may give the false impression that the topic is not well known enough to have a common name.--
Wikimedes (
talk)
23:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
There has been a brewing issue at WP:RM over WP:HOCKEY recommendations and how they should be applied over WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE. Basically the hockey recommendation is that Diacritics shall be applied to all player pages, where appropriate as for the languages of the nationalities of the players in question. This is in fact a mandate that does not allow consideration of any other policy on naming. I think we need to resolve the issue of which naming convention we use for ice hockey players. Is it the one for the names of everyone else based on existing policy and guidelines, or do we have a blanket exception for one project? Please go to Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#RFC_on_hockey_names per Vegaswikian (talk) 00:53, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I tried to fix the misspelling in this RM, but couldn't find how to do it, no matter how I interrogated the source where the "discuss" link led. Can we please have such things sorted out early in the process? They are a distraction from the real work. Noetica Tea? 22:19, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I have boldly refactored the header. I always found it confusing as a newbie, because it suggests that moves should be requested on this page, when in fact the request is placed on the article talk page. So I have edited the text to emphasise WP:RM as a "process" not a "place to request moves". — This, that, and the other (talk) 09:07, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
I look at "Technical requests" and I see a request that I want to contest; therefore, I need to move it from "Technical requests" to "Contested technical requests"; therefore, I would like to be able to view both of those sections at the same time, so I can simply cut-and-paste in the same window. Since these are both subsections of "Requesting technical moves", I click "edit" for that section. Except it turns out that when I do that, I'm actually editing the transcluded subpage Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical, which doesn't allow me to see either of the subsections. Apparently the only way I can edit both subsections in the same window, which seems to me to be a pretty natural desire when I'm required to move text from one subsection to another, is to edit the entire page, which is inefficient and doesn't autofill the edit summary to show that I'm editing the technical requests section.
Is there a good reason for the technical move instructions to be transcluded, so that the entire section can't be edited at once? Or, if there is, could the section header be on this page instead of transcluded? Theoldsparkle ( talk) 23:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Should there be a minimum time allowed before an admin can proceed with a technical move request? Most of them are carried out within a few hours of getting posted, with no trace left on this page. Does this allow enough time for potential objectors to come along and contest the move? Should there be a 24-hour objection window, or something along those lines? Curious to see what you all think.... Dohn joe ( talk) 23:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there a formal process for changing the topic of articles without actually moving them? In this particular case I want to propose clarifying that the "Republic of China" article should be focussed on the government, and making the "Taiwan" article about the modern country. This will be controversial because many editors now see the ROC article as being about the "state" (including the people, borders, etc.) and see the Taiwan article as purely a geograhic article. It will also be controversial due to the political situation. For that reason I believe a formal process would be best. Readin ( talk) 22:39, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Rather new user Jab7842 has been closing a complex mess of RMs, and moving pages around. It's total chaos. I went to one talk page to have my say and found it was all over! See affected pages (all involving "o'clock" in some way) listed in the user's contributions. Could an admin please step in and restore order? I reverted one move; but I'm afraid it's a job for a specialist. We need a description of the situation for all articles involved, rather than inscrutable scattered fragments at various RMs.
Noetica Tea? 10:02, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
December 9, 2011 (Discuss) – List of pies → List of pies and tarts. I was not quite sure how you put a new entry here, but I would like to suggest that we rename the article List of pies as "List of pies and tarts". This is because it does not merely include pies, but also tarts, such as the Bakewell tart; it may confuse people if it goes on simply being called "List of pies". Sorry if I was not quite sure how you can enter a new entry here! ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 09:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I should probably know this. I think I remember seeing somewhere guidelines on how to behave during an RM, such as - don't move the page in advance, don't preempt the discussion with programmatic editing of article, don't 3RR and so on, which I wish to link on a current RM Talk page. But I can't find it and the main RM page itself doesn't appear to have a meaningful link. Help? In ictu oculi ( talk) 14:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Having been diligently fulfilling some of my admin responsibility in the last 90 days working on RM backlogs, I believe there ought to be some additional advice added to these Closing Instructions about the use of Move protection during an RM and immediately after the RM close. Although move protection probably isn’t required in most RM discussions, I believe it can be a useful tool for admins to help stabilize, focus and otherwise make an RM discussion on a contentious move more effective.
What I have learned from participating in RMs is that in contentious RMs (whether there are just two, or dozens of editors involved) emotions run high on both sides of the debate. Many times editors participating in the debate are new or less experienced in the ways of Wikipedia. Also, many times there are editors participating that have had a long history of contentious discussion with other editors in the debate. The consequence of this is that sometimes editors go over the top and unilaterally make a move during the discussion to a new title that may or may not be correct and moves are made improperly (i.e. cut and paste, etc.). When this happens, the RM is derailed, participants become frustrated and generally the outcome is less than civil. In other words, nothing good comes out of a unilateral move made during a contentious RM.
What also happens sometimes, is that when a contentious RM is closed (regardless of outcome), an editor unhappy with the result essentially ignores the close decision and makes or reverts a move anyway. (not always correctly). This again alienates all the RM participants and undermines the whole integrity of the RM process. Generally admins have to step in and clean up the mess, get people to cool off and otherwise restore order. I think these two types of scenarios could be prevented when the probability of them happening during a contentious RM is high by advising admins monitoring RMs with advice something like this:
Some RM discussions are contentious and un-discussed, unilateral page moves during a discussion or page moves made immediately after and contrary to an RM close decision are disruptive and hurt the integrity of the RM process. Admins monitoring RM discussions should use their discretion to move protect articles during contentious RM discussions when they believe a premature, un-discussed unilateral move would be disruptive to the discussion. The same discretion should be used to start or continue move protection immediately after the RM close. Generally, such move protection should be limited to no more than 30 days under normal circumstance. The RM closing comment should reference the move protection.
I believe using Move Protection selectively in the RM arena will significantly help reduce a lot of admin burden fixing and mediating this kind of disruptive behavior during the RM process. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 15:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
When requesting a move I accidentally left the name to be moved to as New Name and my request is now listed as "Rijksmuseum Amsterdam → NewName" when it should be Rijksmuseum Amsterdam → Rijksmuseum. Can this be fixed? SpeakFree (talk)( contribs) 12:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
1. The instructions at the top of this page do not seem to directly cater to people who are coming here to request someone else to move a page because they don't have an account. It would be good to work that into the wording.
2. The first mention of "technical moves" says that it is for when "technical reasons prevent a move from succeeding (for instance, if a page already exists with the desired name)". Later, technical moves are said to include "spelling and capitalization" changes. Actually, it is all quite confusing.
There are several things going on here. First, is the move controversial or uncontroversial? Second, does the user have an account? Third, for users with accounts, is there some other technical reason why they can't do the move? It seems to me in the instructions that some of these things have got muddled up. 86.181.170.124 ( talk) 12:43, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I am quite a newcomer to this section of Wikipedia, so please forgive me if I have misunderstood something. In other Wikipedia sections like this, such as Wikipedia: Articles for deletion, if one clicks on an entry, one will see a discussion following the entry. Here, however, one just sees a list of Requested Moves. Should these be followed by a discussion about the requested move, or have I misunderstood something, and are these discussions elsewhere? I shall be grateful if some one could clarify this,please! Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 20:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
An editor moved Thai basil to Asian basil because "Asian is more neutral". The vast majority of references to this plant call it Thai basil (1,330,000 ghits as compared to 71,000 for Asian basil). WP:Bold aside, this was not an appropriate move. What's the appropriate action at this point? Waitak ( talk) 04:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
The article currently says, "Any autoconfirmed user can use the [move] tab located at the top of any page to perform most moves (see Wikipedia:Moving a page). If you have no reason to expect a dispute concerning a move, be bold and move the page. However, it may not always be possible or desirable to do this." As far as I know, autoconfirmed users have not been able to do this since April of this year. Can this be changed (either the article or the policy)? Alden Loveshade ( talk) 04:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
move
userright, so they should be able to rename pages just fine except in the above-mentioned cases.
Jafeluv (
talk)
12:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)With assistance from PiRSquared17, I recently modified an existing RfD script so that it could close requested moves. How it works:
{{
Requested move/dated}}
and replaces it with {{
RMT|<result> <rationale>.}}
{{
RMB}}
to the bottom of the page (or section, if using section editing).{{
RMB}}
below those.Currently, the script just assists in closing discussions. It does not perform the move. I have a very limited knowledge in javascript and implementing such a feature is beyond me. The script can be found here. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 17:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Even though the Closing instructions#Non-admin_closure advise non-admins to not close RM discussions except in obvious cases that meet a specific criteria, it is, or at least has been, common practice for non-admins to close RM discussions that don't necessarily meet that criteria. This practice is helpful to keeping the backlog under control.
I suggest we update the instructions to reflect actual practice better, but I think we should be specific about when reverting a non-admin closure is acceptable. I suggest reverting simply because the closer was not an admin is not a good reason to revert a close. There needs to be a reasonable objection to the reasoning given by the closer in order to revert, I think.
So, I propose adding the following wording to Closing instructions#Non-admin_closure, immediately after the listed criteria:
When non-admins boldly close RM discussions that do not meet this criteria, others may object and even revert, if a reasonable objection is specified. Simply noting that the closer is not an admin, or that you disagree with the closer, is not grounds to revert a close. Example reasonable grounds are, but not limited to: noting the closer is non uninvolved, specifying something in the closer's statement that indicates a policy was ignored or misinterpreted, etc.
Thoughts? Comments? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 05:59, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Can we please limit comments in this section to the merits or objections to the proposal? Thanks. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 06:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be very odd to add this language while we still have wording to the effect that non-admins can't close except in cases of "nearly unanimous discussions". ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 07:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Do you think the suggested wording accomplishes what you think it should say? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
For example, say someone, John D, is restricted from editing, I don't know, articles about clouds because of a history of edit wars on such articles, and, one day he makes a completely uncontroversial edit on such a page (a revert of an obvious vandal, or a spelling or a grammar correction, maybe even an insertion of properly cited material) - something for which nobody would object if a non-restricted editor made that change. I contend that such an edit should not be a violation for him. Now, if he inserts dubiously supported material that would be merely reverted if someone other than John D make the edit, that would be grounds for whatever consequences there are for John D violating the restriction (a block or whatever). So the grounds for that would be not merely that John D edited against the restriction, but he edited in an objectionable way against the restriction.
Similarly, if a non-admin closes a discussion, even a controversial one, in a manner that would not be challenged if it had been an admin who closed it in the exactly same manner, I don't see the point of objecting. Remember, in a given case a proposal itself might be controversial, but closing it as non-consensus is probably not controversial at all. Now, if the non-admin takes a controversial position, that's a different, objectionable, matter. See the difference? So it should always come down to whether there is a real bonafide objection to the non-admin action or not. If there is, then state what the objection is. If there isn't, then don't object!. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Okay. So on December 9th I closed the List of books by Jacob Neusner → Jacob Neusner bibliography RM discussion with this comment: "The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. " [8]. Noetica ( talk · contribs) reverted this close [9] for apparently no reason at all except that I am not an admin. His edit summary said, "Undid non-admin closure of an RM; please wait for an admin like everyone else". No idea why he thought I was waiting as if I care about the outcome here.
Anyway, I closed again, with more of an explanation: "The result of the move request was: Not moved because there is no consensus to move among those participating, and WP:PRECISION favors the current title. ", and Dicklyon (do these guys work as a team?) reverted that [10] with edit summary: "Given the dispute, wait for an admin; a relisting may be in order." Did these people not read the discussion? Clearly there was no consensus and it was going no where.
The next day, Dec 10, there was one more !vote comment added, in opposition [11].
Then, after five more days of inactivity, admin Anthony Appleyard ( talk · contribs) finally closed it with comment: "The result of the move request was: page not moved: no consensus in 25 days. ". Wow. Good thing we waited for that sound judgment.
Now how was Wikipedia improved by delaying this close? Since there apparently wasn't actual disagreement with my "no consensus" reading, wouldn't it have been better for WP to keep it closed so that Anthony wouldn't have had to take the time to read the discussion and come up with the same obvious conclusion, so he could use that time for something else? Why the objection to allowing non-admins to help out in cases like this? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 00:40, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
But the point here is that if a non-admin does close a discussion, why revert it if it's a reasonable close? And if it's not a reasonable close, why not encourage the reverter to explain what's unreasonable about the close? That's all I'm asking for... is that really too much?
Rejecting and reverting a close on no grounds other than it was closed by a non-admin does not improve the encyclopedia. It's disruptive and time wasting, as is exemplified here. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 18:59, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Colleagues, please take note of this new section at WT:MOSCAPS:
"Proper nouns", "proper names", and other concerns: amending the lead
Your contributions to discussion would be appreciated.
Noetica Tea? 00:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I am not sure if this is the right place to ask. If an administrator undertakes a controversial move precipitously in the middle of an RM discussion before consensus is reached, and several editors (non-administrators) want to move it back to its stable, long-established name, would submitting a new "Request to move" only hours after the administrator's move be considered wp:pointy with deleterious consequences for the editors involved? Or would it be an admissable step to resume discussion on what is still an unresolved issue? Unfortunately, this has to be addressed immediately, since many other long-standing article titles depend on this and are being move-warred as a consequence of that administrator's decision on this page. Walrasiad ( talk) 16:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Would somebody please move that article back to John V of Portugal? I'm asking here, because the Bot keeps deleting my request. GoodDay ( talk) 19:05, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
That question is put here. I draw it to editors' attention as relevant in a few recent requested moves (RMs), and potentially in many more to come.
Noetica Tea? 06:59, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi all,
So I've ended up here from Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2011_December_26#Help_with_disambig and I'm looking for some help - so AAC redirects to Advanced_Audio_Coding, and I think it would be an improvement for AAC to redirect to the disambig page AAC_(disambiguation) - I understand there is a process for this, but I'm not sure which post's talk page I would add the message to... also - is this something I can do boldy? or is there a particular process to follow? Failedwizard ( talk) 08:47, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I added a line to Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical to clarify what editors should do if their "technical" request is contested by another editor. If anyone thinks different wording, or a different method, would be better, feel free to change it.-- Aervanath ( talk) 16:04, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Recently, an editor asked to displace existing edit history of a page, by moving a user sandbox into its space, as an uncontested technical move. This seems almost the same as a deletion of the article followed by a creation anew, like what is done with copyright violations. Should these really be considered as technical uncontroversial moves? It certainly makes it hard to apply WP:BRD to revert back to the old article, since it no longer appears in the edit history of the page, and makes pages look new, when they've existed for years. I do not believe this is in the spirit of WP:EDIT to use requested moves in this manner. It certainly doesn't match what Help:Edit considers how a major edit is to be done. 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 13:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Can the procedures be clarified to rule out this kind of move as being uncontroversial? I wonder how many obscure subpages are floating out there because of requests similar to the one that occurred at Canadian comics. 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 05:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Speakers' Corner, Singapore/version 1 and Speakers' Corner, Singapore -- in 2010 a new article displaced an old article (created in 2006) -- but there's almost nothing overlapping ... (there wouldn't be any overlap, except that the sandboxed version was created and not edited for months) 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 10:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
In response to this situation, I have amended the instructions, hopefully uncontroversially, to state that if an article (even a bad one) exists at the target title, a move should be treated as controversial. I don't know if something should be added to specifically address what happened here, i.e. if you want to replace a bad article with one that you've worked on in your userspace, and you're the only editor of the userspace version. Canadian comics still needs to be fixed. Theoldsparkle ( talk) 16:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | → | Archive 25 |
I'd like input on a page move request from third parties working in the same project. What's the best way to do that? Joja lozzo 20:59, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The bot seems to be running erratically today for current RM updates. Vegaswikian ( talk) 00:35, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
When a requested move is to move an article to a title at which there is already a dab page (eg the request for Sean Kelly (cyclist) to be moved to Sean Kelly), this is also an implied request to move the dab page ( Sean Kelly to Sean Kelly (disambiguation), here). At present there is no notification of the proposed move on the dab page. Is this correct? Someone may well have the dab page on their watchlist, perhaps after doing major work on it, but not be watching all the disambiguated pages. Should the system not flag these move requests up for the benefit of editors who might want to comment? Should a move like this be requested in the first place as a "move of multiple pages"? Pam D 08:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I've just seen some objections to move requests based on "lack of rationale". I'd like to remind editors here that lack of rationale is not, in itself, an objection. The presumption here is always in favor of moving without question unless someone raises a good reason not to move a page. Our job is not to make sure people are moving pages for the right reasons; our job is to let moves happen when there's no good reason not to let them happen.
If it weren't for the technical restriction against moving pages to titles where there is non-trivial history, we wouldn't need RM at all. Remember that the move button doesn't require approval or permission to use in almost all cases. This page is just to assist with the minority of cases where good-faith moves are blocked. We're not customs agents, trying to sniff out suspicious or inadequately supported moves. It's rooted in AGF. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:42, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
The multiple move request at Talk:George VI doesn't seem to be showing up at the other articles' talk pages. Something awry with the bot? Or have I formatted it wrong?-- Kotniski ( talk) 17:20, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
This is getting excessive; several of these are weeks overdue, and discussions are curdling. Would an admin please go through these before somebody calls for Mediation? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The current backlog is nothing. We've held backlogs six times this size, for months at a stretch. I call for persistence, but also for patience. Nobody is going hungry or cold because the backlog is large here. If anyone is bothered by it, they should start closing moves. I'm working as hard as my pay rate demands, and usually much, much harder. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:45, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
So, I thought I'd come across a good solution to the confusing structure problem of this page: I was going to keep everything essentially the same, except swap sections 2 ("Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves") and 3 ("Uncontroversial requests"). The thought being that actually putting the controversial request info directly before the controversial requests would help lessen confusion.
But I go to make the edit, and, oddly, find that the lead and sections 1 and 2 aren't in the text box - those sections are transcluded from another page called Wikipedia:Requested moves/Header. So I can't swap sections 2 and 3. Anybody have a good reason why I shouldn't merge the text from Wikipedia:Requested moves/Header into the WP:RMtext box? Is it a technical thing? Thanks in advance, as I'm perplexed at the moment. Dohn joe ( talk) 22:39, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
The bot is now operating reasonably smoothly. For any feature requests, or if there are any issues, please leave a note on my talk page. Thanks, Hard Boiled Eggs [talk] 12:26, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
I've been removing requested move tags from userspace drafts and telling those who placed them that they should submit their new article to AFC. This was the plan according to this discussion. I've noticed that this is something that a bot should be able to search and execute fairly easily. Does anybody have bot experience? I've posted at bot requests (very backlogged and busy) and got some offers of help.
I've also realized that part of the reason these requests keep coming to RM is because of the wording of the {{ userspace draft}} template. It says "Finished? move the page". Autoconfirmed users can move pages, unless the target already exists or is protected, but newer users cannot, and as a result they attempt to move the page, then upon realizing they can't they follow instructions for a move request. This bites because these editors are getting the runaround. We might be able to direct these users to AFC if we change the template. Thoughts? Cliff ( talk) 21:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Does anyone else ever get confused by the way the requests are structured on the RM page? We have a section called "Uncontroversial requests", with subsections "Current requests" and "Contested requests", followed by a section called "Current discussions". That wording and structure has always struck me as confusing. "How can something be both uncontroversial and contested?" "What's the difference between current requests and current discussions?" I really doubt that I'm the only person who's asked those questions.
I'd like to propose this: 1) Get rid of the "Contested requests" section. If someone objects to an uncontroversial request, why don't we just direct them to relist it in the regular discussion section? 2) Rename the main section "Controversial requests". I'd take "current" out of the title, because all the discussions are current - we don't have a "Dormant discussions" or "Resolved discussions" section. Also, replacing "current" with "controversial" shows that it's the counterpoint to the "Uncontroversial requests" section.
Any thoughts? Dohn joe ( talk) 18:07, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
My thought of getting rid of the "Contested requests" section entirely is also more efficient, I think. Rather than using it as a waystation between uncontroversial and controversial requests, why not just direct people who object to simply relist it in the controversial request section (with their objection noted)? If no one pays attention to it after that, well, we have that situation not infrequently already. Dohn joe ( talk) 20:45, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
When a page is moved through this process, shouldn't all of its subpages also be moved automatically? I just put move requests on a bunch of subpages of a Wikiproject that was moved over a year ago (apparently without the knowledge of any "active" members, but that's another topic). ⇔ ChristTrekker 15:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Fixed
Dualus (
talk)
00:01, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The current request for the Occupy movement move should be:
But RM bot is overwriting it thusly. Please help. Thank you. Dualus ( talk) 23:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
“ | Then came the Great War ...Great Empires have been overturned ... but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again. | ” |
— Churchill February 16, 1922 |
See Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names
The 2 year moratorium on discussing page moves for article such as Republic of Ireland has ended. But the Arbcom decision that such requested moves should be made on the talk page of WikiProject Ireland Collaboration ( WT:IECOLL) is still in force. I think this needs to be added into WP:RM for two reasons:
I may have misunderstood the Arbcom ruling (or there may have been developments since 21 September 2011) so I'll post a request to WT:IECOLL asking an actively interested party to comment here. -- PBS ( talk) 04:26, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Note to closers: according to an ArbCom ruling of June 2009, confirmed in September 2011, discussions relating to the naming of Ireland articles ( Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Ireland (disambiguation)) must occur at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration. Any RM affecting these articles that is opened on the article talk pages or any other venue should be speedily closed, with a pointer to the ArbCom ruling.
Hi everyone, there are a couple of current RM bot discussions - particularly one regarding talk page notices based on the order of multi move requests. Please see my talk page to pitch in any feedback or suggestions. Thanks, Hard Boiled Eggs [talk] 03:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the proper process for listing the RM was followed at Talk:Seattle Sounders, but I do think that there is a clear consensus for moving (my opinion is colored by the fact that I listed the first RM, which was unsuccessful, and still support the move this time around). The discussion has been open for 20 days. Can an admin please take a look and judge appropriately? Sorry if this is not the proper forum for this type of request. Thanks! — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I'm not familiar with the finer points of the RM process but I'd appreciate it if some admin could consider moving Oscar Grant Plaza before the end of the RM debate. See the talk page for the details but the short version is WP:SNOW and WP:NOTADVOCATE. Pichpich ( talk) 22:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that anything in backlog for more than a week be relisted.
Than anything that has been relisted thrice be
or
65.94.77.11 ( talk) 12:39, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
This is a request I make of all RM proposal discussion closing admins... when you close a discussion as "no consensus", please explain why there is no community consensus. The lack of local consensus - lack of consensus among those actually participating in the discussion and !voting - is usually obvious, but the lack of community consensus about what to do when there is no local consensus is not as obvious.
In ENGVAR cases, for example, we're often supposed to go back to the variety of English used by the original contributor when there is no local consensus about which title/variety of English to use. But in many other cases while those participating might not agree, naming policy and guidelines which is presumably supported by community consensus might clearly indicate one particular title.
So, please, don't just say "no consensus". Make sure there is no "community consensus" about what to do as well as no local consensus. Then if you still think it's really "no consensus", explain why there is no default community consensus that applies in that case either. This can ultimately help identify holes in naming policy and guidelines. Thanks! -- Born2cycle ( talk) 18:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there a template to put a tag on the article page itself saying that a move has been requested? I’m concerned that notices on the article talk page and the Wikipedia:Requested moves page will not generate enough response.
This comes up because there is an editor who has been making dozens of name changes, many of them controversial, based on “no common name”, and several editors have been responded by asking him to request moves first
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]. However if his move request is not seen by people who read the article, and therefore generates no discussion, it may give the false impression that the topic is not well known enough to have a common name.--
Wikimedes (
talk)
23:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
There has been a brewing issue at WP:RM over WP:HOCKEY recommendations and how they should be applied over WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE. Basically the hockey recommendation is that Diacritics shall be applied to all player pages, where appropriate as for the languages of the nationalities of the players in question. This is in fact a mandate that does not allow consideration of any other policy on naming. I think we need to resolve the issue of which naming convention we use for ice hockey players. Is it the one for the names of everyone else based on existing policy and guidelines, or do we have a blanket exception for one project? Please go to Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#RFC_on_hockey_names per Vegaswikian (talk) 00:53, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I tried to fix the misspelling in this RM, but couldn't find how to do it, no matter how I interrogated the source where the "discuss" link led. Can we please have such things sorted out early in the process? They are a distraction from the real work. Noetica Tea? 22:19, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I have boldly refactored the header. I always found it confusing as a newbie, because it suggests that moves should be requested on this page, when in fact the request is placed on the article talk page. So I have edited the text to emphasise WP:RM as a "process" not a "place to request moves". — This, that, and the other (talk) 09:07, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
I look at "Technical requests" and I see a request that I want to contest; therefore, I need to move it from "Technical requests" to "Contested technical requests"; therefore, I would like to be able to view both of those sections at the same time, so I can simply cut-and-paste in the same window. Since these are both subsections of "Requesting technical moves", I click "edit" for that section. Except it turns out that when I do that, I'm actually editing the transcluded subpage Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical, which doesn't allow me to see either of the subsections. Apparently the only way I can edit both subsections in the same window, which seems to me to be a pretty natural desire when I'm required to move text from one subsection to another, is to edit the entire page, which is inefficient and doesn't autofill the edit summary to show that I'm editing the technical requests section.
Is there a good reason for the technical move instructions to be transcluded, so that the entire section can't be edited at once? Or, if there is, could the section header be on this page instead of transcluded? Theoldsparkle ( talk) 23:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Should there be a minimum time allowed before an admin can proceed with a technical move request? Most of them are carried out within a few hours of getting posted, with no trace left on this page. Does this allow enough time for potential objectors to come along and contest the move? Should there be a 24-hour objection window, or something along those lines? Curious to see what you all think.... Dohn joe ( talk) 23:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there a formal process for changing the topic of articles without actually moving them? In this particular case I want to propose clarifying that the "Republic of China" article should be focussed on the government, and making the "Taiwan" article about the modern country. This will be controversial because many editors now see the ROC article as being about the "state" (including the people, borders, etc.) and see the Taiwan article as purely a geograhic article. It will also be controversial due to the political situation. For that reason I believe a formal process would be best. Readin ( talk) 22:39, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Rather new user Jab7842 has been closing a complex mess of RMs, and moving pages around. It's total chaos. I went to one talk page to have my say and found it was all over! See affected pages (all involving "o'clock" in some way) listed in the user's contributions. Could an admin please step in and restore order? I reverted one move; but I'm afraid it's a job for a specialist. We need a description of the situation for all articles involved, rather than inscrutable scattered fragments at various RMs.
Noetica Tea? 10:02, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
December 9, 2011 (Discuss) – List of pies → List of pies and tarts. I was not quite sure how you put a new entry here, but I would like to suggest that we rename the article List of pies as "List of pies and tarts". This is because it does not merely include pies, but also tarts, such as the Bakewell tart; it may confuse people if it goes on simply being called "List of pies". Sorry if I was not quite sure how you can enter a new entry here! ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 09:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I should probably know this. I think I remember seeing somewhere guidelines on how to behave during an RM, such as - don't move the page in advance, don't preempt the discussion with programmatic editing of article, don't 3RR and so on, which I wish to link on a current RM Talk page. But I can't find it and the main RM page itself doesn't appear to have a meaningful link. Help? In ictu oculi ( talk) 14:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Having been diligently fulfilling some of my admin responsibility in the last 90 days working on RM backlogs, I believe there ought to be some additional advice added to these Closing Instructions about the use of Move protection during an RM and immediately after the RM close. Although move protection probably isn’t required in most RM discussions, I believe it can be a useful tool for admins to help stabilize, focus and otherwise make an RM discussion on a contentious move more effective.
What I have learned from participating in RMs is that in contentious RMs (whether there are just two, or dozens of editors involved) emotions run high on both sides of the debate. Many times editors participating in the debate are new or less experienced in the ways of Wikipedia. Also, many times there are editors participating that have had a long history of contentious discussion with other editors in the debate. The consequence of this is that sometimes editors go over the top and unilaterally make a move during the discussion to a new title that may or may not be correct and moves are made improperly (i.e. cut and paste, etc.). When this happens, the RM is derailed, participants become frustrated and generally the outcome is less than civil. In other words, nothing good comes out of a unilateral move made during a contentious RM.
What also happens sometimes, is that when a contentious RM is closed (regardless of outcome), an editor unhappy with the result essentially ignores the close decision and makes or reverts a move anyway. (not always correctly). This again alienates all the RM participants and undermines the whole integrity of the RM process. Generally admins have to step in and clean up the mess, get people to cool off and otherwise restore order. I think these two types of scenarios could be prevented when the probability of them happening during a contentious RM is high by advising admins monitoring RMs with advice something like this:
Some RM discussions are contentious and un-discussed, unilateral page moves during a discussion or page moves made immediately after and contrary to an RM close decision are disruptive and hurt the integrity of the RM process. Admins monitoring RM discussions should use their discretion to move protect articles during contentious RM discussions when they believe a premature, un-discussed unilateral move would be disruptive to the discussion. The same discretion should be used to start or continue move protection immediately after the RM close. Generally, such move protection should be limited to no more than 30 days under normal circumstance. The RM closing comment should reference the move protection.
I believe using Move Protection selectively in the RM arena will significantly help reduce a lot of admin burden fixing and mediating this kind of disruptive behavior during the RM process. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 15:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
When requesting a move I accidentally left the name to be moved to as New Name and my request is now listed as "Rijksmuseum Amsterdam → NewName" when it should be Rijksmuseum Amsterdam → Rijksmuseum. Can this be fixed? SpeakFree (talk)( contribs) 12:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
1. The instructions at the top of this page do not seem to directly cater to people who are coming here to request someone else to move a page because they don't have an account. It would be good to work that into the wording.
2. The first mention of "technical moves" says that it is for when "technical reasons prevent a move from succeeding (for instance, if a page already exists with the desired name)". Later, technical moves are said to include "spelling and capitalization" changes. Actually, it is all quite confusing.
There are several things going on here. First, is the move controversial or uncontroversial? Second, does the user have an account? Third, for users with accounts, is there some other technical reason why they can't do the move? It seems to me in the instructions that some of these things have got muddled up. 86.181.170.124 ( talk) 12:43, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I am quite a newcomer to this section of Wikipedia, so please forgive me if I have misunderstood something. In other Wikipedia sections like this, such as Wikipedia: Articles for deletion, if one clicks on an entry, one will see a discussion following the entry. Here, however, one just sees a list of Requested Moves. Should these be followed by a discussion about the requested move, or have I misunderstood something, and are these discussions elsewhere? I shall be grateful if some one could clarify this,please! Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 20:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
An editor moved Thai basil to Asian basil because "Asian is more neutral". The vast majority of references to this plant call it Thai basil (1,330,000 ghits as compared to 71,000 for Asian basil). WP:Bold aside, this was not an appropriate move. What's the appropriate action at this point? Waitak ( talk) 04:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
The article currently says, "Any autoconfirmed user can use the [move] tab located at the top of any page to perform most moves (see Wikipedia:Moving a page). If you have no reason to expect a dispute concerning a move, be bold and move the page. However, it may not always be possible or desirable to do this." As far as I know, autoconfirmed users have not been able to do this since April of this year. Can this be changed (either the article or the policy)? Alden Loveshade ( talk) 04:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
move
userright, so they should be able to rename pages just fine except in the above-mentioned cases.
Jafeluv (
talk)
12:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)With assistance from PiRSquared17, I recently modified an existing RfD script so that it could close requested moves. How it works:
{{
Requested move/dated}}
and replaces it with {{
RMT|<result> <rationale>.}}
{{
RMB}}
to the bottom of the page (or section, if using section editing).{{
RMB}}
below those.Currently, the script just assists in closing discussions. It does not perform the move. I have a very limited knowledge in javascript and implementing such a feature is beyond me. The script can be found here. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 17:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Even though the Closing instructions#Non-admin_closure advise non-admins to not close RM discussions except in obvious cases that meet a specific criteria, it is, or at least has been, common practice for non-admins to close RM discussions that don't necessarily meet that criteria. This practice is helpful to keeping the backlog under control.
I suggest we update the instructions to reflect actual practice better, but I think we should be specific about when reverting a non-admin closure is acceptable. I suggest reverting simply because the closer was not an admin is not a good reason to revert a close. There needs to be a reasonable objection to the reasoning given by the closer in order to revert, I think.
So, I propose adding the following wording to Closing instructions#Non-admin_closure, immediately after the listed criteria:
When non-admins boldly close RM discussions that do not meet this criteria, others may object and even revert, if a reasonable objection is specified. Simply noting that the closer is not an admin, or that you disagree with the closer, is not grounds to revert a close. Example reasonable grounds are, but not limited to: noting the closer is non uninvolved, specifying something in the closer's statement that indicates a policy was ignored or misinterpreted, etc.
Thoughts? Comments? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 05:59, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Can we please limit comments in this section to the merits or objections to the proposal? Thanks. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 06:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be very odd to add this language while we still have wording to the effect that non-admins can't close except in cases of "nearly unanimous discussions". ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 07:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Do you think the suggested wording accomplishes what you think it should say? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
For example, say someone, John D, is restricted from editing, I don't know, articles about clouds because of a history of edit wars on such articles, and, one day he makes a completely uncontroversial edit on such a page (a revert of an obvious vandal, or a spelling or a grammar correction, maybe even an insertion of properly cited material) - something for which nobody would object if a non-restricted editor made that change. I contend that such an edit should not be a violation for him. Now, if he inserts dubiously supported material that would be merely reverted if someone other than John D make the edit, that would be grounds for whatever consequences there are for John D violating the restriction (a block or whatever). So the grounds for that would be not merely that John D edited against the restriction, but he edited in an objectionable way against the restriction.
Similarly, if a non-admin closes a discussion, even a controversial one, in a manner that would not be challenged if it had been an admin who closed it in the exactly same manner, I don't see the point of objecting. Remember, in a given case a proposal itself might be controversial, but closing it as non-consensus is probably not controversial at all. Now, if the non-admin takes a controversial position, that's a different, objectionable, matter. See the difference? So it should always come down to whether there is a real bonafide objection to the non-admin action or not. If there is, then state what the objection is. If there isn't, then don't object!. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Okay. So on December 9th I closed the List of books by Jacob Neusner → Jacob Neusner bibliography RM discussion with this comment: "The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. " [8]. Noetica ( talk · contribs) reverted this close [9] for apparently no reason at all except that I am not an admin. His edit summary said, "Undid non-admin closure of an RM; please wait for an admin like everyone else". No idea why he thought I was waiting as if I care about the outcome here.
Anyway, I closed again, with more of an explanation: "The result of the move request was: Not moved because there is no consensus to move among those participating, and WP:PRECISION favors the current title. ", and Dicklyon (do these guys work as a team?) reverted that [10] with edit summary: "Given the dispute, wait for an admin; a relisting may be in order." Did these people not read the discussion? Clearly there was no consensus and it was going no where.
The next day, Dec 10, there was one more !vote comment added, in opposition [11].
Then, after five more days of inactivity, admin Anthony Appleyard ( talk · contribs) finally closed it with comment: "The result of the move request was: page not moved: no consensus in 25 days. ". Wow. Good thing we waited for that sound judgment.
Now how was Wikipedia improved by delaying this close? Since there apparently wasn't actual disagreement with my "no consensus" reading, wouldn't it have been better for WP to keep it closed so that Anthony wouldn't have had to take the time to read the discussion and come up with the same obvious conclusion, so he could use that time for something else? Why the objection to allowing non-admins to help out in cases like this? -- Born2cycle ( talk) 00:40, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
But the point here is that if a non-admin does close a discussion, why revert it if it's a reasonable close? And if it's not a reasonable close, why not encourage the reverter to explain what's unreasonable about the close? That's all I'm asking for... is that really too much?
Rejecting and reverting a close on no grounds other than it was closed by a non-admin does not improve the encyclopedia. It's disruptive and time wasting, as is exemplified here. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 18:59, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Colleagues, please take note of this new section at WT:MOSCAPS:
"Proper nouns", "proper names", and other concerns: amending the lead
Your contributions to discussion would be appreciated.
Noetica Tea? 00:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I am not sure if this is the right place to ask. If an administrator undertakes a controversial move precipitously in the middle of an RM discussion before consensus is reached, and several editors (non-administrators) want to move it back to its stable, long-established name, would submitting a new "Request to move" only hours after the administrator's move be considered wp:pointy with deleterious consequences for the editors involved? Or would it be an admissable step to resume discussion on what is still an unresolved issue? Unfortunately, this has to be addressed immediately, since many other long-standing article titles depend on this and are being move-warred as a consequence of that administrator's decision on this page. Walrasiad ( talk) 16:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Would somebody please move that article back to John V of Portugal? I'm asking here, because the Bot keeps deleting my request. GoodDay ( talk) 19:05, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
That question is put here. I draw it to editors' attention as relevant in a few recent requested moves (RMs), and potentially in many more to come.
Noetica Tea? 06:59, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi all,
So I've ended up here from Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2011_December_26#Help_with_disambig and I'm looking for some help - so AAC redirects to Advanced_Audio_Coding, and I think it would be an improvement for AAC to redirect to the disambig page AAC_(disambiguation) - I understand there is a process for this, but I'm not sure which post's talk page I would add the message to... also - is this something I can do boldy? or is there a particular process to follow? Failedwizard ( talk) 08:47, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I added a line to Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical to clarify what editors should do if their "technical" request is contested by another editor. If anyone thinks different wording, or a different method, would be better, feel free to change it.-- Aervanath ( talk) 16:04, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Recently, an editor asked to displace existing edit history of a page, by moving a user sandbox into its space, as an uncontested technical move. This seems almost the same as a deletion of the article followed by a creation anew, like what is done with copyright violations. Should these really be considered as technical uncontroversial moves? It certainly makes it hard to apply WP:BRD to revert back to the old article, since it no longer appears in the edit history of the page, and makes pages look new, when they've existed for years. I do not believe this is in the spirit of WP:EDIT to use requested moves in this manner. It certainly doesn't match what Help:Edit considers how a major edit is to be done. 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 13:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Can the procedures be clarified to rule out this kind of move as being uncontroversial? I wonder how many obscure subpages are floating out there because of requests similar to the one that occurred at Canadian comics. 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 05:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Speakers' Corner, Singapore/version 1 and Speakers' Corner, Singapore -- in 2010 a new article displaced an old article (created in 2006) -- but there's almost nothing overlapping ... (there wouldn't be any overlap, except that the sandboxed version was created and not edited for months) 76.65.128.132 ( talk) 10:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
In response to this situation, I have amended the instructions, hopefully uncontroversially, to state that if an article (even a bad one) exists at the target title, a move should be treated as controversial. I don't know if something should be added to specifically address what happened here, i.e. if you want to replace a bad article with one that you've worked on in your userspace, and you're the only editor of the userspace version. Canadian comics still needs to be fixed. Theoldsparkle ( talk) 16:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)