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Hi @ SmokeyJoe,
Instead of responding at the RM or even on your talk page, I though I’d do it on my own talk page and tag you. Hope that’s okay. At Talk:List of leaders of Georgia (country)#Requested move 11 July 2023 you recently submitted a comment that I think exemplifies the main difference in our perspectives about title decision-making on WP. You wrote:
Unless I’m mistaken, you’re the only editor on WP with an antipathy of hatnotes as demonstrated by the uniquely-held view that a user merely seeing “a hatnote to something they didn’t want” is an inconvenience. The WP community’s embracing of hatnotes is made obvious by their ubiquitous presence in myriads of articles, not to mention explicit endorsement in policy.
Asserting there is no PT without anchoring such a claim to PT determination criteria is meaningless. Do you have a policy-based argument to oppose this proposal?
In a follow-up comment you reveal an apparent disagreement with policy, which may explain why your arguments are not based in policy:
Title policy is established for us to have titles that are most helpful to readers.
What I see here is a rationalization to IAR title policy rules, especially primary topic, because (you believe) they favor ease of wiki-linking for editors over serving readers.
What you seem to ignore, repeatedly and consistently, is that the primary topic usage criteria is based on what users are most likely seeking when they search with the title in question. In this case we are asked to consider a hypothetical user who searches with “List of leaders of Georgia”. What is the likelihood they’re looking for governors of the US state of Georgia vs leaders of the country named Georgia? Perhaps you saw @ Amakuru’s recent !vote? where they addressed this question directly: “The governor of Georgia is never referred to as the ‘leader of Georgia’”.
Of course, technically the governor is the leader, but the point here is that in normal English usage governors are not referred to as “leaders” and therefore the likelihood that anyone searching with “List of leaders of Georgia” is looking for the list of governors is practically nil. Do you not agree with that? Why?
So how is this not a clear primary topic? How are users not helped by being taken directly to the page they’re seeking rather than to a dab page? In what scenario is a user inconvenienced by having this article at the undisambiguated base name?
I’m tagging @ Huwmanbeing because I’m similarly genuinely perplexed by their similar position on this title and PT in general as well.
Thx, В²C ☎ 13:51, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
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talk) 00:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
What do you make of the following recent RM discussions on US state capitals?
Which ones would you have supported? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Coherent reply policyIf I put a message on your talk page, I will be watching that page for a reply. If you leave a message here, I will reply here, unless you request otherwise. |
---|
|
||||||||||||||||
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
Hi @ SmokeyJoe,
Instead of responding at the RM or even on your talk page, I though I’d do it on my own talk page and tag you. Hope that’s okay. At Talk:List of leaders of Georgia (country)#Requested move 11 July 2023 you recently submitted a comment that I think exemplifies the main difference in our perspectives about title decision-making on WP. You wrote:
Unless I’m mistaken, you’re the only editor on WP with an antipathy of hatnotes as demonstrated by the uniquely-held view that a user merely seeing “a hatnote to something they didn’t want” is an inconvenience. The WP community’s embracing of hatnotes is made obvious by their ubiquitous presence in myriads of articles, not to mention explicit endorsement in policy.
Asserting there is no PT without anchoring such a claim to PT determination criteria is meaningless. Do you have a policy-based argument to oppose this proposal?
In a follow-up comment you reveal an apparent disagreement with policy, which may explain why your arguments are not based in policy:
Title policy is established for us to have titles that are most helpful to readers.
What I see here is a rationalization to IAR title policy rules, especially primary topic, because (you believe) they favor ease of wiki-linking for editors over serving readers.
What you seem to ignore, repeatedly and consistently, is that the primary topic usage criteria is based on what users are most likely seeking when they search with the title in question. In this case we are asked to consider a hypothetical user who searches with “List of leaders of Georgia”. What is the likelihood they’re looking for governors of the US state of Georgia vs leaders of the country named Georgia? Perhaps you saw @ Amakuru’s recent !vote? where they addressed this question directly: “The governor of Georgia is never referred to as the ‘leader of Georgia’”.
Of course, technically the governor is the leader, but the point here is that in normal English usage governors are not referred to as “leaders” and therefore the likelihood that anyone searching with “List of leaders of Georgia” is looking for the list of governors is practically nil. Do you not agree with that? Why?
So how is this not a clear primary topic? How are users not helped by being taken directly to the page they’re seeking rather than to a dab page? In what scenario is a user inconvenienced by having this article at the undisambiguated base name?
I’m tagging @ Huwmanbeing because I’m similarly genuinely perplexed by their similar position on this title and PT in general as well.
Thx, В²C ☎ 13:51, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review
the candidates and submit your choices on the
voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{
NoACEMM}}
to your user talk page.
MediaWiki message delivery (
talk) 00:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
What do you make of the following recent RM discussions on US state capitals?
Which ones would you have supported? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)