Please put new comments at the bottom of this page. Thanks!
Notes:
[comments removed]
I have put a warning on the IP editor's talk page User talk:70.53.152.32. Vrenator ( talk) 08:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the help Vrenator! MsBatfish ( talk) 11:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
For being so enthusiastic as well as trying to seek consensus. (Just don't forget to be bold) -- Mrmatiko ( talk) 13:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC) |
Just want to say hello and ty for your contribution to wikipedia. I'm new to wiki and I have problems getting around. I can't edit restricted articles yet and I am not sure I could keep up with the 10 edits/month pace needed to do so. If I have edit suggestions, I'll post them in the discussion and maybe ask you to make the editing with the text I provide. Of course, I have taken with smile your last comment on the prostitution page. In french, we use the expression "trafiquer les chiffres" for "cooking the books". In that sense, abolitionists are certainly great number traffickers. However, I think the article is getting better even if it needs still a lot of editing. IMHO, there should be a rule to be applied to that article: accepting only primary sources as reference.
Au plaisir! Gustave ( talk) 09:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the notification; I've made what I hope will be helpful comments at the dispute page. - Nunh-huh 10:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello, MsBatfish. I just wanted to say thank you for your copyedits on this article. I will fix the few issues in it soon, nominate it for Good Article (GA) status and up hope it makes it (though I have no doubt that I can achieve GA status with it). Maybe once it's nominated, you'll be interested in helping out with any issues the GA reviewer brings up? Like copyediting?
I did tweak two of your edits, though, as seen here. The first one is just placement. The second is for accuracy. For the female orgasm part, I'm not sure if by "one estimate" you meant "one study" or just "one estimate" out of several. But I want to point out that every study on this thus far consistently reports the same thing -- that most women achieve orgasm only through clitoral stimulation. They typically estimate this to be 70 or 80% of women, so I put 70-80% for the clarity you were going for. I take it that you got 80% from one of the sources in the article? If so, one of the sources ( WebMD) in the article also says 70; that's what I mean about the statistics usually being reported as 70-80 %. Anyway, I'd backed the "most women" line to four references because there are some people who still believe that vaginal ( G-Spot) orgasms are common or are the most common, and that's just not true (especially with the recent discovery about how far clitoral tissue extends into the vagina and that the G-Spot is pretty much the clitoris as well).
But, again, thank you. And like I stated, if interested in helping out once I nominate this article for GA, let me know. What would you get out of it? Other than what you already get out of editing, you'd get a GA title under your belt. Flyer22 ( talk) 14:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
For the lead, I changed it to this, leaving out mention of hermaphrodites altogether because it was already stated as unneeded on the talk page. Your version said :The term may also describe other sexual penetrative acts between members of opposite sexes, members of the same sex, or hermaphrodites, (as is the case with snails). It may also include sexual acts such as anal sex, oral sex and fingering, which can be practiced by both heterosexual and homosexual partners.
But opposite sexes is already covered by the first line. Your version also mentioned sexual penetration away from the line about anal sex, oral and fingering, which I found odd (if you were being general with the terms, I want to point out that the lead is going over sexual penetration in the first paragraph because sexual intercourse is typically defined as penetrative sex, then non-penetrative sex in the second paragraph). And hermaphrodites, when speaking of humans anyway, should be typically referred to as intersex. And, finally, intersex individuals are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual...too. That's why we only have to say "heterosexual and same-sex pairings" -- opposite sex and same sex. Flyer22 ( talk) 04:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree, "sexual intercourse" is used to refer to human sex and "copulation" or "mating" to animal sex. I also don't think we need separate articles for separate types of anuses, lol. Surely we could just have an article where the lead explains what an anus is and then there is a section on human anuses and one on other types of anuses?
I was wondering, I am kind of in need of a neutral party or two at a discussion I am having over on Talk:Child destruction. An editor who comes across to me as potentially having some ownership issues reverted my edits and so I left a polite comment on the talk page explaining my edits and asking what he has issue with and how can we fix it, etc, see: Talk:Child destruction#Why were my edits reverted? Basically he hates every single change I made, claims that "they make no sense" and doesn't seem to want me to have any input in the article. He has already left me 7 replies (so far) over the course of less than 2 hours (at this point I still haven't replied yet). I can just see this going in a bad direction, so I was hoping that some other editors might join the conversation to help keep it from escalating, without having to make a big deal out of it or get formal help with the situation. Right now it's seems like he's telling me I can't edit the article and he will just revert any changes I make, and while I don't have any huge personal attachment to that particular article, I don't agree with his reasoning or approach and I think it's non-constructive and unwelcoming. MsBatfish ( talk) 10:35, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
(undented) Actually what I meant by "not notable" was articles that I think don't meet the Wikipedia notability guideline, not articles that I don't personally find interesting. But I disagree that it's usually quick and easy to get un-necessary articles deleted. It's easier to create an article than to delete one. I've seen deletion discussions go on almost endlessly. And the notability guideline is definitely open to interpretation. I've seen editors argue "it might be proved notable some day". Or people think that just saying something is notable is enough and forget that we have to prove that with references. There is a back-log of deletion discussions (and redirect deletion discussions, etc). I know that it costs little to have millions of articles, but that doesn't mean that every article is necessary. And personally I would definitely not create a one-sentence article either, even in the hopes that it might be expanded sometime in the future. It's not a dictionary. I think another related problem is that often I have seen, say, 5 different short articles all on the same basic topic, that could really be all in one article. Sometimes I can't help but wonder about the motivations of the editor, for example when it is on a controversial topic and they just title it slightly differently and fill it with biased information.
I wonder if there is any centralized discussion anywhere on a proposition to change the policy to not allow unregistered editing? MsBatfish ( talk) 06:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured as much (about Jim Wales and others not supporting required registration), but I was interested to know whether they was a way editors could voice our opinions for the record. So that people (including the founders, admin, etc) could at least roughly gage the level of support.
I think that Wikipedia in theory (what should be done, or how policy/guidelines/essays "should" be interpreted) is different from Wikipedia in practice. I am not a "deletionist", but nor am I am "inclusionist". There was an [ article in the Monitor] a few years back which sums up a lot of the issues regarding trivial articles and deletion discussions on Wikipedia, and not much has changed since. The only thing I noticed which I felt was inaccurate in that article is that the writer seems to think that "notability" is mainly determined by number of Google search results. Unless the notability guidelines were vastly different back then?
There are a lot of things that frustrate me about Wikipedia, especially some of the behind-the-scenes interactions. But the fact remains that its articles are widely read, come up in the top of most search results and many people assume they are all fact - whether they should or not, or whether I like it or not - so I can't help but want to help improve its content for that reason alone :-) MsBatfish ( talk) 02:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess it hadn't been that long since the last section break, lol. (I just like not having to scroll down endlessly every time I reply or if I hit "show preview" while editing & then add more).
I didn't realize you had that news article on your user page, lol. Funny :-)
I felt the same way about the Cracks movie. I liked it but it also angered me. I was also kind of annoyed that Netflix listed it under "Gay and Lesbian Dramas". I found that potentially offensive.
I figured the best way to include the "sexual orientation" stuff in the Zoophilia article was to say that some zoophiles describe themselves that way. I don't think it should be listed as a sexual orientation. I think it's very important to have articles not be POV, but at the same time avoid "undue weight" on POV's that are not widely accepted. I saw that Plateau wanted to change words like zoophile and bestiality everywhere in the article to zoosexual, so I thought a compromise to help prevent him/her from claiming that was necessary was to put a mention of the term, where it was commonly used and by whom. I have no problem with POV's that I don't personally agree with in Wikipedia articles, but it is frustrating when someone appears to have an "agenda" or edits an article to exclusively reflect their point of view. Unfortunately this seems to happen a lot. Even with mainstream views - sometimes editors want no other views mentioned at all, which isn't cool either. I've had discussions where editors argue for their POV, forgetting that whether they, (or even the majority of editors), personally agree with something is not what determines whether it should be included in an article. I've had editors assume that I must believe the minority POV (or whatever POV they didn't personally agree with) simply because I said it deserved to be mentioned, and base all their arguments on why they believe it is wrong. This even started to happen at a discussion at Talk:MMR vaccine controversy recently. I guess because people can and do have "agendas" and try to make articles reflect their own POV's some editors now immediately jump to the conclusion that this is what everyone is doing. But even in cases where that (when an editor has a strong POV that is unduly influencing all their edits) is what's going on, I think it's best to stick to arguments about policy pertaining to what should/shouldn't be included in an article, as opposed to trying to prove to the person that their POV is "wrong". MsBatfish ( talk) 05:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
re this, I think we should choose between either "seem real" or "be realistic". "Seem realistic" sounds redundant. Something is realistic when it seems real. Right? — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 17:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
And this: "Dream control has been reported to improve with practiced deliberate lucid dreaming" — is it possible to phrase this differently? It's confusing. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 17:26, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I just saw your note from back in October at WT:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality. One joins a WikiProject largely by showing up and participating. With a semi-active group like that, you might consider some of the actions suggested at WP:REVIVE. In my personal opinion, the last item (#10) in the list, which is about keeping an eye on the WikiProject's talk page and replying to other posts, is probably the most important. An appearance of activity often leads to the real thing. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:16, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
User:Someone963852 is continuously reverting our edits to the zoophilia article; your input on the matter is appreciated (see Talk:Zoophilia) -- Plateau99 ( talk) 00:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
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Aloha!
My name is Victor and I work with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. We're chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade new people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who use Wikipedia have so much to share.
I find stories that drive our annual fundraising efforts. It's important to convey the incredible diversity of people who've come to rely upon Wikipedia every day.
I see that you have an interest in human sexuality. That is an immensely important topic to be contributing to! I'd really like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia.
I'm hoping you will elaborate on your story with me, either over the phone, by Skype, by Facebook, by email, or any means you like. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project and we'll set up a good time to discuss further.
Thank you,
Victor Grigas
vgrigas@wikimedia.org
Victor Grigas ( talk) 23:49, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Yerba mate#Requested move: ? Ilex paraguariensis. I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 04:56, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Mate (beverage)#Requested Move: ? Maté. I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 04:59, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
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Hello, MsBatfish. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, " Prostitution".
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Please put new comments at the bottom of this page. Thanks!
Notes:
[comments removed]
I have put a warning on the IP editor's talk page User talk:70.53.152.32. Vrenator ( talk) 08:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the help Vrenator! MsBatfish ( talk) 11:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
For being so enthusiastic as well as trying to seek consensus. (Just don't forget to be bold) -- Mrmatiko ( talk) 13:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC) |
Just want to say hello and ty for your contribution to wikipedia. I'm new to wiki and I have problems getting around. I can't edit restricted articles yet and I am not sure I could keep up with the 10 edits/month pace needed to do so. If I have edit suggestions, I'll post them in the discussion and maybe ask you to make the editing with the text I provide. Of course, I have taken with smile your last comment on the prostitution page. In french, we use the expression "trafiquer les chiffres" for "cooking the books". In that sense, abolitionists are certainly great number traffickers. However, I think the article is getting better even if it needs still a lot of editing. IMHO, there should be a rule to be applied to that article: accepting only primary sources as reference.
Au plaisir! Gustave ( talk) 09:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the notification; I've made what I hope will be helpful comments at the dispute page. - Nunh-huh 10:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello, MsBatfish. I just wanted to say thank you for your copyedits on this article. I will fix the few issues in it soon, nominate it for Good Article (GA) status and up hope it makes it (though I have no doubt that I can achieve GA status with it). Maybe once it's nominated, you'll be interested in helping out with any issues the GA reviewer brings up? Like copyediting?
I did tweak two of your edits, though, as seen here. The first one is just placement. The second is for accuracy. For the female orgasm part, I'm not sure if by "one estimate" you meant "one study" or just "one estimate" out of several. But I want to point out that every study on this thus far consistently reports the same thing -- that most women achieve orgasm only through clitoral stimulation. They typically estimate this to be 70 or 80% of women, so I put 70-80% for the clarity you were going for. I take it that you got 80% from one of the sources in the article? If so, one of the sources ( WebMD) in the article also says 70; that's what I mean about the statistics usually being reported as 70-80 %. Anyway, I'd backed the "most women" line to four references because there are some people who still believe that vaginal ( G-Spot) orgasms are common or are the most common, and that's just not true (especially with the recent discovery about how far clitoral tissue extends into the vagina and that the G-Spot is pretty much the clitoris as well).
But, again, thank you. And like I stated, if interested in helping out once I nominate this article for GA, let me know. What would you get out of it? Other than what you already get out of editing, you'd get a GA title under your belt. Flyer22 ( talk) 14:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
For the lead, I changed it to this, leaving out mention of hermaphrodites altogether because it was already stated as unneeded on the talk page. Your version said :The term may also describe other sexual penetrative acts between members of opposite sexes, members of the same sex, or hermaphrodites, (as is the case with snails). It may also include sexual acts such as anal sex, oral sex and fingering, which can be practiced by both heterosexual and homosexual partners.
But opposite sexes is already covered by the first line. Your version also mentioned sexual penetration away from the line about anal sex, oral and fingering, which I found odd (if you were being general with the terms, I want to point out that the lead is going over sexual penetration in the first paragraph because sexual intercourse is typically defined as penetrative sex, then non-penetrative sex in the second paragraph). And hermaphrodites, when speaking of humans anyway, should be typically referred to as intersex. And, finally, intersex individuals are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual...too. That's why we only have to say "heterosexual and same-sex pairings" -- opposite sex and same sex. Flyer22 ( talk) 04:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree, "sexual intercourse" is used to refer to human sex and "copulation" or "mating" to animal sex. I also don't think we need separate articles for separate types of anuses, lol. Surely we could just have an article where the lead explains what an anus is and then there is a section on human anuses and one on other types of anuses?
I was wondering, I am kind of in need of a neutral party or two at a discussion I am having over on Talk:Child destruction. An editor who comes across to me as potentially having some ownership issues reverted my edits and so I left a polite comment on the talk page explaining my edits and asking what he has issue with and how can we fix it, etc, see: Talk:Child destruction#Why were my edits reverted? Basically he hates every single change I made, claims that "they make no sense" and doesn't seem to want me to have any input in the article. He has already left me 7 replies (so far) over the course of less than 2 hours (at this point I still haven't replied yet). I can just see this going in a bad direction, so I was hoping that some other editors might join the conversation to help keep it from escalating, without having to make a big deal out of it or get formal help with the situation. Right now it's seems like he's telling me I can't edit the article and he will just revert any changes I make, and while I don't have any huge personal attachment to that particular article, I don't agree with his reasoning or approach and I think it's non-constructive and unwelcoming. MsBatfish ( talk) 10:35, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
(undented) Actually what I meant by "not notable" was articles that I think don't meet the Wikipedia notability guideline, not articles that I don't personally find interesting. But I disagree that it's usually quick and easy to get un-necessary articles deleted. It's easier to create an article than to delete one. I've seen deletion discussions go on almost endlessly. And the notability guideline is definitely open to interpretation. I've seen editors argue "it might be proved notable some day". Or people think that just saying something is notable is enough and forget that we have to prove that with references. There is a back-log of deletion discussions (and redirect deletion discussions, etc). I know that it costs little to have millions of articles, but that doesn't mean that every article is necessary. And personally I would definitely not create a one-sentence article either, even in the hopes that it might be expanded sometime in the future. It's not a dictionary. I think another related problem is that often I have seen, say, 5 different short articles all on the same basic topic, that could really be all in one article. Sometimes I can't help but wonder about the motivations of the editor, for example when it is on a controversial topic and they just title it slightly differently and fill it with biased information.
I wonder if there is any centralized discussion anywhere on a proposition to change the policy to not allow unregistered editing? MsBatfish ( talk) 06:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured as much (about Jim Wales and others not supporting required registration), but I was interested to know whether they was a way editors could voice our opinions for the record. So that people (including the founders, admin, etc) could at least roughly gage the level of support.
I think that Wikipedia in theory (what should be done, or how policy/guidelines/essays "should" be interpreted) is different from Wikipedia in practice. I am not a "deletionist", but nor am I am "inclusionist". There was an [ article in the Monitor] a few years back which sums up a lot of the issues regarding trivial articles and deletion discussions on Wikipedia, and not much has changed since. The only thing I noticed which I felt was inaccurate in that article is that the writer seems to think that "notability" is mainly determined by number of Google search results. Unless the notability guidelines were vastly different back then?
There are a lot of things that frustrate me about Wikipedia, especially some of the behind-the-scenes interactions. But the fact remains that its articles are widely read, come up in the top of most search results and many people assume they are all fact - whether they should or not, or whether I like it or not - so I can't help but want to help improve its content for that reason alone :-) MsBatfish ( talk) 02:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess it hadn't been that long since the last section break, lol. (I just like not having to scroll down endlessly every time I reply or if I hit "show preview" while editing & then add more).
I didn't realize you had that news article on your user page, lol. Funny :-)
I felt the same way about the Cracks movie. I liked it but it also angered me. I was also kind of annoyed that Netflix listed it under "Gay and Lesbian Dramas". I found that potentially offensive.
I figured the best way to include the "sexual orientation" stuff in the Zoophilia article was to say that some zoophiles describe themselves that way. I don't think it should be listed as a sexual orientation. I think it's very important to have articles not be POV, but at the same time avoid "undue weight" on POV's that are not widely accepted. I saw that Plateau wanted to change words like zoophile and bestiality everywhere in the article to zoosexual, so I thought a compromise to help prevent him/her from claiming that was necessary was to put a mention of the term, where it was commonly used and by whom. I have no problem with POV's that I don't personally agree with in Wikipedia articles, but it is frustrating when someone appears to have an "agenda" or edits an article to exclusively reflect their point of view. Unfortunately this seems to happen a lot. Even with mainstream views - sometimes editors want no other views mentioned at all, which isn't cool either. I've had discussions where editors argue for their POV, forgetting that whether they, (or even the majority of editors), personally agree with something is not what determines whether it should be included in an article. I've had editors assume that I must believe the minority POV (or whatever POV they didn't personally agree with) simply because I said it deserved to be mentioned, and base all their arguments on why they believe it is wrong. This even started to happen at a discussion at Talk:MMR vaccine controversy recently. I guess because people can and do have "agendas" and try to make articles reflect their own POV's some editors now immediately jump to the conclusion that this is what everyone is doing. But even in cases where that (when an editor has a strong POV that is unduly influencing all their edits) is what's going on, I think it's best to stick to arguments about policy pertaining to what should/shouldn't be included in an article, as opposed to trying to prove to the person that their POV is "wrong". MsBatfish ( talk) 05:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
re this, I think we should choose between either "seem real" or "be realistic". "Seem realistic" sounds redundant. Something is realistic when it seems real. Right? — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 17:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
And this: "Dream control has been reported to improve with practiced deliberate lucid dreaming" — is it possible to phrase this differently? It's confusing. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 17:26, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I just saw your note from back in October at WT:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality. One joins a WikiProject largely by showing up and participating. With a semi-active group like that, you might consider some of the actions suggested at WP:REVIVE. In my personal opinion, the last item (#10) in the list, which is about keeping an eye on the WikiProject's talk page and replying to other posts, is probably the most important. An appearance of activity often leads to the real thing. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:16, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
User:Someone963852 is continuously reverting our edits to the zoophilia article; your input on the matter is appreciated (see Talk:Zoophilia) -- Plateau99 ( talk) 00:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!
SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better — thanks for helping.
If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from Nettrom ( talk), SuggestBot's caretaker.
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Aloha!
My name is Victor and I work with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. We're chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade new people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who use Wikipedia have so much to share.
I find stories that drive our annual fundraising efforts. It's important to convey the incredible diversity of people who've come to rely upon Wikipedia every day.
I see that you have an interest in human sexuality. That is an immensely important topic to be contributing to! I'd really like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia.
I'm hoping you will elaborate on your story with me, either over the phone, by Skype, by Facebook, by email, or any means you like. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project and we'll set up a good time to discuss further.
Thank you,
Victor Grigas
vgrigas@wikimedia.org
Victor Grigas ( talk) 23:49, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Yerba mate#Requested move: ? Ilex paraguariensis. I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 04:56, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
A move discussion has started again on the article: Talk:Mate (beverage)#Requested Move: ? Maté. I am notifying you since you expressed an opinion in the topic in the past. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 04:59, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Icaro, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Quechua ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot ( talk) 12:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited The Limits of Control, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Gentlemen Prefer Blondes ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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Hello, MsBatfish. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, " Prostitution".
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Zinnober9 ( talk) 22:05, 26 July 2021 (UTC)