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I have a question about the application of Template:Non-free architectural work. The way the template currently reads (particularly in the "Note" section) it seems that the template is only intended to apply to proposed buildings/structures currently under construction or whose construction is expected to begin sometime in the future. However, I've noticed from scanning through Category:Non-free architectural works that the template is also occasionally being used for the following types of files as well:
Many of the files in the category are being used as the primary means of identification in stand-alone articles about the building structure in question, so I could see an argument for non-free use. Many others are, however, being used within subsections (in some cases within secondary infoboxes) of articles where the building/structure may be mentioned, but the image appears mainly decorative and problematic per NFCC#8 or NFCC#3.
It seems that the template is intended for the stand-alone articles about building/structures which are currently under construction or whose construction has been proposed, and for files which can be expected to be replaced by a free equivalent image once the building, etc. has been completed. Photos of buildings, etc. which no longer exist or whose projects have been cancelled may qualify for PD or as {{ Non-free historic image}}, but I don't see how they qualify for this template. Same goes for floor plans, concept art, ships etc. which may be OK as {{ Non-free 2D art}} or something similar, but do not seem to be appropriate for this template.
I understand my interpretation of how it should be used may be incorrect, but once again the template's current wording seems to imply I am not too far off base. Perhaps the template's wording and documentation should to be tweaked to clarify the aforementioned points to avoid any misunderstandings? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Non-free architectural work
is the problem. It suggests it's for any non-free architecture photo. Whether the fix is to rename the template or to broaden its scope to "non-existent buildings" I dunno.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
08:29, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
File:BrumAFA.jpg is tagged as non-free logo, but I can't see that anything in it has copyright. Apart from a very old coat-of-arms, it's simple typography. Am I correct, and if so, what should be done? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Is it really appropriate to add a fair use image to a biographical article three days after the person's death? Whenever I see such discussions, the advice is normally to give it six months so as to provide an opportunity to locate a suitable free image. Seeing how many others obviously have no desire to do that sort of work, I'm not surprised to see this, but I think it's within reason to question whether it's appropriate. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 18:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
FYI, I let {{ Non-free use rationale}} and {{ Non-free use rationale 2}} populate a new hidden tracking category Category:Wikipedia non-free files with redirect backlink. I did not put this category itself in Category:Files for cleanup or Category:Wikipedia file maintenance (for now), since my interpretation of WP:NFCCP 10c is that redirects to a page that uses the non-free media is acceptable. (Although it might be fair to consider the implications now that a category is available to fix these instances, whether we can tighten 10c?) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 17:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
US law is not clear as to whether the vectorization of the logo has its own copyright which exists in addition to any copyright on the actual logo. To avoid this uncertainty, editors who upload vector images of non-free logos should use a vector image that was produced by the copyright holder of the logo and should not use a vector image from a site such as seeklogo.com where the vectorization of a logo may have been done without authorization from the logo's copyright holder.
Two issues:
— βox73 (৳alk) 03:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
According to c:COM:FOP#France, there is only limited freedom of paranoia in France when it comes to buildings and other permanently installed structures. Does this mean that a student at a French university cannot take a photograph of one the buildings on campus and upload to Commons under a free license or to Wikipedia locally as {{ PD-USonly}}? The reason I am asking is because I tagged File:Panthéon-Assas University, Facade.jpg as replaceable fair use because I wasn't aware at the time of the distinction made by France when it comes to FoP. Although I do not feel the reasons given by the uploader are really valid when it comes to WP:NFCC#1, the FoP thing is something which might make replaceable fair use impossible. If the file has to be treated as non-free, then each use of it is still subject to all of the other NFCCP, right? The way the file is currently being used does not seem to satisfy WP:NFCC#8, regardless of NFCC#1, and I don't see how it can satisfy NFCC#8 without including specific sourced coverage of the building's exterior appearance in the article. Right now, the non-free of the file is purely decorative and contextual and removing the image would not be detrimental to the reader's understanding in any way.
Would France's FoP rules also apply to the interiors of buildings, etc.? If they do, then File:Panthéon-Assas University, Patio.jpg, File:Panthéon-Assas University, Mezzanine.jpg and File:Panthéon-Assas University, Conseils.jpg probably also should have the rfu tags I added removed since free equivalents cannot be created. However, like the photo of the building exterior, there is no real context for using these images in the article, so the NFCC#8 concerns mentioned above also apply to these; moreover, the reasons given for disputing the replaceable fair use by the uploader do not seem sufficient to justify their non-free use.
If the rfu tags have been inappropriately added, then I have no issues with them being removed; I still, however, do not see how these would then satisfy all 10 NFCCP to justify their non-free use. Anyway, I would appreciate some feedback on this and perhaps some suggestions on what should be done regarding these files. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:33, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello. Editors who are participants of the Television project are working on updating the wording to MOS:TV, to better reflect current practices. Currently, we are working on the wording for WP:TVIMAGE, and I just wanted to reach out to any editors who may have better knowledge of the NFCC criteria to join the discussion to ensure we are making note of everything necessary at MOS:TV. Editors interested can find the discussion here. Thanks. - Favre1fan93 ( talk) 18:14, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 October 5#File:Siège SNCF Saint-Denis.jpg. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
08:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 October 5#File:Siège SNCF Saint-Denis.jpg. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
08:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been thinking about a notification template to use in conjunction with {{ di-missing article links}} and {{ di-missing some article links}}. Unlike some other di-templates, there is no specific notification template for these templates, so I have been using {{ di-disputed fair use rationale-notice}} in lieu. Anyway, I'm not too experienced when it comes to creating templates, but what I've come up with can be seen at User:Marchjuly/sandbox/New NFCC notification template. Any suggestions or comments that others might have on this would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:44, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been thinking about a notification template to use in conjunction with {{ di-missing article links}} and {{ di-missing some article links}}. Unlike some other di-templates, there is no specific notification template for these templates, so I have been using {{ di-disputed fair use rationale-notice}} in lieu. Anyway, I'm not too experienced when it comes to creating templates, but what I've come up with can be seen at User:Marchjuly/sandbox/New NFCC notification template. Any suggestions or comments that others might have on this would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:44, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
In considering NFCC#1, what do editors think is a reasonable timeframe that we would allow the use of non-free when we are fully aware that a free replacement will be possible in the future? In other words, when we say if a free image "could" be obtained, how much time leeway do we allow?
As an extreme example, we rarely concern ourselves with the end of copyright life of a work, and never use the logical that we can't use the copyrighted image because in 75 years it will be free. But more practically, this situation comes about primarily with buildings under construction (using an artist's rendering as an interim work), and utilitarian consumer products that are announced months ahead of their commercial release (using press materials in the meantime). Case in point is the Nintendo Switch announced today, but not for sale for 5 months.
I believe that we've implicitly used a 6 month rule in the past at least for buildings. That is, if the building is to be near completion in 6 months or sooner, a free image can be had with patience and we'd not allow a new non-free to be used (though give leeway if a non-free had been in place for years, removing that as soon as a free image can be taken). But I would like to gain input and add language to this for a rough guideline on the matter. -- MASEM ( t) 22:25, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
NFCC 3b says: "Minimal extent of use. An entire work is not used if a portion will suffice. Low- rather than high-resolution/fidelity/bit rate is used (especially where the original could be used for deliberate copyright infringement). This rule also applies to the copy in the File: namespace."
The rule of thumb offered on the policy page is to be around 0.1 megapixel. Take as an example an image 288 x 360 px (103,680 pixels). Rendered on a 24" 1080p screen (53x30 cm), this produces an image that is physically 8 x 10 cm (3.15" x 3.94"). But when displayed on a 24" 4K screen, this produces an image that is only 4 x 5 cm (1.57" x 1.97"). That's smaller than even an average thumbnail displayed on a 1080p screen (default thumbnail is 220 px, being 6.1 cm on a 1080p screen. And that's the shorter dimension).
I believe the rules on 0.1 megapixels should be significantly relaxed to 0.4 or 0.5 megapixels, resulting in sizes on 4K screens comparable to those currently on 1080p screens. Screen sizes are increasing, and if the image size guidelines do not then Wikipedia's non-free images will only be suitable for ants. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 01:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Cover arts are most preferred by multiple users for singles. I nominated the following images for deletion/discussion (whatever you call it), but I'm listing ones that are ongoing:
"Most preferred" does not imply "irreplaceability", yet the participants at FFD think otherwise. The issue on singles needs wider discussion. Meanwhile, I'm inviting you to improve consensus on individual images at the FFD rather than here. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I've uploaded an image to the page December 2016 Congolese protests after it was mentioned on Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates that this article needed an image. The protests take place in DRC a country with almost no internet usage and 0 active Wikipedians (to the best of my knowledge). Basically, it's impossible to get another image. Following the example of a Reuters image that was uploaded in October and placed on the 2016 Eséka train derailment page, I uploaded a low resolution screen grab image from AFP. This was then tagged by Ramaksoud2000 but I don't see any difference between what I have done and what DatGuy has done. Please help us to resolve this. Thank you. Monopoly31121993 ( talk) 13:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
The discussion Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Allow FFD discussions to be closed as delete via NAC has started. It proposes allowing non-admins to close FFD discussions. I invite you to comment there. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:49, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
There's a general issue that you guys may have covered extensively beforehand, but if an individual dies and there's no image of them on Wikipedia, is there any guidance on how long one should wait before uploading a fair use, low resolution image of them? Strikes me we have hundreds of thousands of biographies that lack images of those who have died variously from today to fifty years back, so where does the project draw the line? Or is the line a woolly one? The Rambling Man ( talk) 20:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Is Category:Possibly free images an exemption to the NFCC? I can't find it listed in Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions. I'm wondering if the category is subject to WP:NFG and __NOGALLERY__ should be added or if the category should be added as an exemption to the NFCC since it seems to be a maintenance category like the categories listed. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:15, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I firmly believe that to support Wikipedia outreach with cultural partnerships, the common sense and minimal usage of logos on the Wikipedia:Meetup namespaces should be relaxed and allowed. These company and cultural institution logo images are part of Commons, are used for outreach and promotion, and work to support partnership efforts from an information knowledge perspective. I believe this super restrictive policy should be relaxed and/or re-evaluated. This policy is not helpful and seeing as the images are part of Commons already, allowing usage is neither disruptive nor prohibitive usage. It makes us look unprofessional to partners and re-inforces problems with text-heavy pages that have few if any graphics. If the cultural institutions are willing to donate their high quality logos to Commons, and there are great GLAM outreach efforts being cultivated, the use of these logos would greatly benefit everyone. -- Erika aka BrillLyle ( talk) 08:33, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: I am writing start class biographies such as the still unreviewed Peter G. Morgan (Virginia politician) to blue link names in the Chart of Delegates found at Virginia Constitutional Convention of 1868, beginning with those who were also members of the Virginia Assembly. These notables are referred to in Pulliam’s “The Constitutional Conventions of Virginia from the Foundation…” (1901), Swem’s “Register of the the General Assembly of Virginia…" (1918), --- and sometimes Jackson’s “Negro Office-Holders in Virginia, 1865-1895” (1945). The last gives biographical sketches following Reconstruction until the completion of Jim Crow disenfranchisement in Virginia for the African-American delegates omitted in Pulliam.
I have found three portraits online at a government source, those for Peter G. Morgan, Daniel M. Norton, and James W. D. Bland.
The photos go into the Encyclopedia Virginia on line published by the Library of Virginia from the University of Virginia Special Collections, identified as --- a portrait by an unknown photographer at an unknown date, reproduced in Luther Porter Jackson’s “Negro Office-Holders in Virginia, 1865-1895” (1945). I have obtained a copy for my personal library. There is no special notation as to copyright noted for the photos, though in catalogues it is noted that a copyright was secured by Luther Porter Jackson in 1946 for the book.
Can these portraits be downloaded onto Wikicommons and used in Wikipedia articles? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 07:13, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Just to let you know that User:Theo's Little Bot cannot handle TIF files and seems to corrupt these when it tries it resize them. I've gone back to the start of January and reverted the image uploads, but there may be earlier problems that have not yet been fixed. The task is currently disabled due to this issue per a request. I don't think Theopolisme is currently active so this problem may not be fixed quickly. Also notifying User:Ronhjones so he is aware of this problem. — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 11:34, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem and Nyttend: Something recently happened when the new note about the WMF was added to the article. Previously, WP:NFC#cite_note-2 would link to the note at bottom of the article regarding the non-free of cover art. However, that link is now WP:NFC#cite_note-3. I have no problems with this other than that particular note has been cited in quite a number of cover art related discussion, and the links in this discussion will no longer work correctly. Is there a way to fix the linking in the NFC page using an WP:ANCHOR, so that the old links redirect to cite_note-3 or a way to turn that link into a shortcut so that the old links still work? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
I invite you to comment and/or participate on the above ideas about obtaining more free images of persons. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Was wondering if Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons reviewed by XXN is something which should be added to Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions? I'm not sure whether it's an administrative category or more of a personal category for XXN. The reason I'm asking is because a number of the files in the category are still licensed as non-free which might meant that the "NOGALLERY" code needs to be added per WP:NFG and WP:NFCC#9. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:32, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
I have a question regarding the use of non-free image is stand-alone articles about characters from TV shows and movies. I can understand using a non-free image when the appearance of the fictional character is quite different from the appearance of the actor/actress in real life. Maybe the special makeup or a costume involved so that the character has a particular unique appearance. How is non-free use evaluated in cases where the character and the real life actor/actress basically look the same? For example. File:EricMurphy.jpg is a non-free image being used to identify the character Eric Murphy for the TV show/movie Entourage yet there are some freely licensed images of Kevin Connolly, the actor who plays the role, found in c:Category:Kevin Connolly. There's not much of a difference between the character look and the actors real world appearance, so I am wondering if non-free image use satisfies NFCC#1 in such cases. I understand Connolly is not playing himself and the show is not a reality TV show per se (even though it may be partly based upon real world experiences), so is that reason alone sufficient to justify non-free use. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:37, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
For the article Eric Murphy: well, there's only one third-party source cited at all, it's of questionable reliability, it's dead, and it certainly doesn't cite anything in the article about the character's appearance. Drovethrughosts ( talk · contribs) claimed that the file "illustrates the text next to which it appears, which describes the character portrayed." However, there is no such reliably-sourced text in the article as it stands today. I'd remove it from the (already-betroubled) Eric Murphy article and then tag the file with {{ di-orphaned fair use}}. — fourthords | =Λ= | 02:36, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
As for the common application of policies ("with legal considerations" or not), we still have a consternating policy in place called Ignore all rules. — fourthords | =Λ= | 17:24, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
I've just uploaded File:Authagraph projection.jpg. As I rarely upload non-free images, I'd be grateful if someone could review and if necessary improve my case for doing so, on that page, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:42, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
How does WP:NFCC#1 apply to individuals who are no longer professionally active in the manner which have made them Wikipedia notable? For example, an actor/actress who has not been active in quite a number of years and who basically has decided to lead a relatively unknown and quiet life ever since. The person may still be only known for a role they played so many years ago, and for whatever reason has pretty much decided to stay out the the public eye. I am bringing this up because of something I read at File talk:Barry Stokes (actor).jpg. To me a BLP is ideally about a person's entire life, not just a particular role they may have played at one time in their life, and that is something that should be kept in mind when it comes to the infobox image. I can understand arguments being made in favor of non-free use in the case of a child actor whose appearance naturally changed as they grew older, or perhaps even if for people who have had a serious accident, etc. which has drastically changed their appearance.
Can we, however, make the same allowance for living individuals who have simply moved on/retired from a career which made them notable simply to show them as they looked at their peak of fame? It seems to me that there might be quite a number of BLP subjects who would prefer to have a non-free image showing them at their peak appearance used in their articles if the choice whas between a less appealing freely licensed equivalent/no image at all. We could actually add lots of non-free stuff to BLPs lacking a photo if this kind of thing is considered acceptable as common practice. I am not arguing that we should do this, but I am trying to understand how NFCC#1 should be applied in these types of cases. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Marchjuly. I do wish to argue for the file, and have responded Hammersoft to you on my talk page. Beryl reid fan ( talk) 20:27, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Currently, the exemption regarding retired groups and individuals in item 1 of WP:NFC#UUI reads as follows:
For some retired or disbanded groups, or retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable.
As I read this exemption and based upon the above discussion, it seems quite clear to me that the question has to do with the connection between physical appearance and notability. To me this is where the emphasis is, not simply the fact that a person is retired. Some poeple, however, seem to be placing the emphasis on "retired" as if being retired in and of itself is a justification for non-free use. So, I am wondering if the visual appearance aspect should be emphasised and clarified in a way to make this clearer. Maybe italics, bold or a combination of the two could be used to make this important point clearer. Perhaps something like this:
For some retired or disbanded groups, or retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable.
I'm also wondering if "would be acceptable" should be changed "may be acceptable" since "would" seems to apply in all cases, but there is really no "all cases" when it comes to non-free use per WP:OTHERIMAGE. It might be also helpful to add something about simply wanting to show the person is not enough to justify non-free use when their Wikipedia notability is not connected to their appearance. Anyway, I'm interested in hearing what others think. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 03:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
would work? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 14:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)A non-free image may be acceptable for (a) some retired or disbanded groups in cases where obtaining an image of all of the members together is considered to be impossible and (b) some retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance in cases where a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career.
I think Masem's proposed wording is a definite improvement over the current version, but I'm still not sure about "is reasonable". Using "is" seems to imply use is pretty much accepted as default. Maybe it's just me, but "may be reasonable" or "can be reasonable" seems better even though either might not be the best way to express such an idea. Anything which might be seen to imply that such usage is acceptable by default seems to switch the burden from being one of "having to justify how non-free use is acceptable" to "one "having to justify how non-free use is not acceptable", which seems contrary to WP:NFCCE. I am only bringing this up because of Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 February 3#File:1925 William Preston.jpg where the use of the plural "articles" in item 10 of WP:NFCI is being argued as sufficient justification keeping a non-free image of a deceased individual in a related election article even though such usage does not seem consistent with established FFD consensus.
FWIW, I also can see Hammersoft's point about still-living band members, unless there is something unique about the group's appearance as a whole (for example, Kiss (band) where the band visual appearance might have been just as notable as their music). So, perhaps this does need to be better clarified in point A. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:42, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 March 18#File:United States Postal Service Logo.svg.
Marchjuly (
talk)
00:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
I tried to add {{ Missing rationale2}} to Talk:Andorra women's national football team, but something strange seemed to happen. The template looks fine, but you're taken to the template's editing window (not the take page's) when your try to edit the thread. I checked another page where the template was added and the same thing happens. Maybe I added the template incorrectly or maybe this is what's suppose to happen. If the latter is the case, then this seems like a flaw which could lead to the accidental editing of the template itself. Anyone familiar with this template. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 23:16, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
A recent Supreme Court ruling in Star Athletica v Varsity Brands will affect files on the English Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. The ruling essentially states that any design elements of a useful article (clothing, cars, etc.) can by copyrightable if (i) the design elements can be separated from the useful article itself into a 2D or 3D work of art, and (ii) that work of art would be copyrightable. Note that the first prong of that test is quite broad, as interpreted by the Court, basically stating that if you can take a picture of something, that's "separating" it from the useful article. Dissenting opinions in the 6–2 decision stated the obvious that just taking a picture of clothing doesn't make it not clothing, as the shape of the useful article is still present, but sadly the majority did not agree. The short of it is that many more images will now be free after applying de minimis when that principle wasn't necessary before, and images that focus primarily on useful articles may become non-free and fall under the non-free content criteria.
Full text of ruling: [3] SCOTUSblog summary: [4]
Along these lines, I have a bot task proposed that will slightly alter the text in ~400 non-free use rationales to note that the uniforms in question are under both trademark and copyright protection, not just trademark. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/BU RoBOT 35. ~ Rob13 Talk 13:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: reverted my addition of a reference table to get fair-use image dimensions with the summary "Understand this was added in good faith, but as soon as put in hard numbers, they are gamed."
I don't understand how the values in the table help in "gaming" as the total acceptable number of pixels is already specified in the article: 100,000.
Regardless, as in the law, hard numbers make it objective for both the uploader and patroller to decide whether or not an image is acceptable. Otherwise, one would just be guessing whether it's the right number or not, and one might have to push one's luck by progressively uploading smaller and smaller images until it sticks, wasting both uploader and reviewers' time.
Addtionally, there is already a link to a tool that does the same thing, but with an extra form to fill and click through. (The tool also slightly exceeds the 100,000, probably due to rounding error.)
Any thoughts anyone?
Thanks,
cmɢʟee⎆
τaʟκ
19:13, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
It doesn't appear that AfC creations are "officially" an exception to the requirement that non-free content only be used in mainspace, meaning that technically every non-free image used on an AfC draft is violating policy, unless I'm missing something. Just... in case anyone cares. TimothyJosephWood 14:44, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
AFC is primarily for assessing Wikipedia notability, right?it's...somewhat more involved than that, but close enough. But somehow the part of my brain that processes image rationales, and the part that reviews AfC drafts never... quite met one another. While it may not be relevant to notability, I'm not particularly looking forward to having to explain the whole thing to a new editor in a way that doesn't sound like complete Greek. TimothyJosephWood 15:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Item 10 of WP:NFCI allows non-free images to be used as the primary means of identification at the top of articles about deceased individual in certain cases. It also says that a image from a press of photo agency like Getty may be used if the image itself is the subject of critical commentary within the article in question. A non-free image used as the primary means of identification at the top of an article is typically considered to satisfy WP:NFCC#8 even if the image itself is specifically not subject to an critical commentary within the article, right? Is the same considered for Getty images? For example, File:Actress Agnes Lauchlan.jpg is being used to identify Agnes Lauchlan, but it is sourced to Getty and licenses to it are being sold on the Getty website for what looks like quite a bit of money. The non-free may not be as high in quality as the original Getty one, but it is without a watermark and could fairly be easily downloaded and used. Of course, Wikipedia cannot control what people do with the files they download, but I am wondering if we should be accepting commercially viable images such as this even as non-free content. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone know why File:Bert-yank-levy-a-foremost-authority-on-guerilla-warfare-at-us-training-school.jpg is listed as being used in Portal:Nautical. I've looked at the Portal page's mark up, but I can't find the image anywhere in there. Is it possible this file is being transculded from somewhere else by mistake? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 13:19, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:VP/T#Listeria bot again. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
22:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I updated the guideline indicating the implementation of applying WP:PROD to files. -- George Ho ( talk) 04:19, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
What about updating Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria to reflect that? -- George Ho ( talk) 04:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
The section Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Acceptable_use does not list videos. So what would be acceptable? It is the same as an audio clip? OR should it be a merge of image and audio? This video File:Don't Look Now love scene .ogg cam to my attention as a Wikipedia search for images over a certain resolution got this one listed - I assume WP picked out the "853 × 480 pixels", which was over the size I was searching for. The length of the clip is 30 seconds, which is OK for length - do we need the image size to be reduced as well to 421 x 237? Ronhjones (Talk) 23:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 May 10#File:United States Postal Service Logo.svg.
Marchjuly (
talk) 00:37, 11 May 2017 (UTC) --
Marchjuly (
talk)
00:37, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I understand that there are a few written (and unwritten) exemptions allowed for WP:NFCC#1. I am wondering if there is also an allowance given to the wishes of the subject of the article. Suppose the subject of a BLP has specifically asked that a photo showing them not be added to the article for reasons of privacy. Even though the individual does seem to occassionally appear in public at official events, they still do not want an image of them being used in the article. Would it be acceptable in such a case to use another non-free image, say a non-free logo of a business, etc. owned by the individual, as the means of primary information in the main infobox?
The specific example I am thinking of is CGP Grey. Grey is a YouTube personality who has requrested on the article's talk page that no image of him be added to the article. In order to respect his wishes, a non-free logo of Grey's YouTube channel was added to the main infobox, but it was deleted per File talk:CGPGreySymbol.png. The same logo was then reuploaded the PD-logo jpg File:CGPGrey Logo.jpg, but that has also been deleted. Is there any possible way to justify the use of a non-free logo, etc. to serve as the primary means of identifying Grey? The closest I could think of would be trying to use non-free cover art to identify an artist, author, musician in a BLP about the concerned individual, but this is something not typically considered acceptabe per items 8 and 9 of WP:NFC#UUI. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:14, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there any possible way to justify the use of a non-free logo, etc. to serve as the primary means of identifying Grey?, I was asking the question not because I wanted to use the non-free logo as indentification of Grey, but because others had been doing so based upon Grey's desire for privacy. I tagged the original non-free file as rfu because I felt it was being used in such a way and doing so was inappropriate. So, I agree with everyone suggesting that non-free logos should not be used in such a way. I also agree with the concerns made about promotional use, which is why I don't think even a freely licensed version of the logo should be used like this. I've seen quite a number of articles about authors, artists, etc., where someone has added non-free cover art or non-free pictures of artistic works to the main infobox in place of a picture of the individual. Not sure why they've done this. Maybe they are aware of WP:NFCC#1 or maybe they just feel (as also pointed out) that some kind of image is mandatory/permitted basd upon a WP:OTHERIMAGE kind of rationale. I've have read posts in various discussions wherean editor claims a is must be needed for an infobox because there wouldn't be
|image=
if it wasn't. In some of these cases it may be possible to move the file to another section of the article, but in others you basically have no critical commentary of the work or cover art at all.I think the sentence "For example, to allow identification of music albums, books, etc., only an image of the front cover art of the object is normally used; .... ." in WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion might need some tweaking because there is not really a clear distinction made between main infobox use and use in other sections of an article or other sections of other articles. With respect to cover art, WP:NFC#cite_note#3 seems quite clear that use for "identification" is OK in stand-alone article about the work in question, but a much stronger justification is needed for other articles. A new editor unfamiliar with NFCCP might read the above sentence and assume that non-free use of cover art is acceptable anywhere as long as the file is being used to identify the work which is being discussed. Such an interpretation could be one reason why so many non-free cover art files have been inappropriately added to articles over the years; editors assume that discussing/mentioning an album means it's OK to show the cover identifying the album. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Seems to me that a list of criteria for images of deceased is overdue. The issue has been discussed numerous times without much success to limit such usage. Now we have non-free images of deceased challenged, like those of Reg Grundy and Helen Rollason. Before starting another RFC, I think we need to develop individual working criteria to individually propose. For instance, between the timing of death and when to upload appropriate, availability of images qualified for Commons, contacting photographers, etc. Pinging Aspects, Stephen, This is Paul, and Masem. -- George Ho ( talk) 19:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm... seems too broad. I'll narrow down to "irreplaceable" image instead. George Ho ( talk) 19:19, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Sounds to me that the timing criterion is the most important and most definite focus to amend criterion #10 for Acceptable use of images. Unsure about efforts to find a free image or convert unfree image into a free image. However, other criteria would likely need some incubation but would be unsuitable for the upcoming RFC. To work on other criteria, we can do that at another RFC. If we retry to ask others what criteria for "irreplaceable" image of deceased person should be, that would go nowhere.
Here's my working statement for the RfC (just for the timing criterion):
Past discussions about non-free images of deceased persons have not resulted in improved criteria. The images have been removed and/or then reinserted. Our current rule about images of deceased is this shown in Wikipedia:Non-free content#Acceptable use:
10. Pictures of deceased persons, in articles about that person, provided that ever obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely. Note that in the case the image is from a press agency or photo agency (e.g., AP, Corbis or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary it is assumed automatically to fail "respect for commercial opportunity".
To amend the criterion #10 of "Acceptable use" of images, what timing between a person's death and the time to upload an "irreplaceable" image of that person shall it be?
If the above needs some more work, what are your suggestions to amend the above proposal for RFC? -- George Ho ( talk) 03:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to establish "arbitrary break" for easier navigation. Seems to me that we can narrowly focus on inserting non-free images in existing BLPs at the time of a person's death. How long should a BLP exist until a person's death, and when will an editor insert a non-free noncommercial image? I hope I phrased it right. George Ho ( talk) 21:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Restarting this to bring up the case of Kim Jong-nam and File:Kim jong nam.jpg. Image uploaded a few days after his murder. This is a well-known person who was living in exile so there might have been a number of opportunities for a freely licensed image to have been created. He was killed while waiting for a commercial flight in a major international aiprort and even has visited some fairly well-known public places such as Tokyo Disneyland. This does not seem to be a person who lived in hiding out of fear of being seen, but rather someone who appeared in public quite a bit. How would what has been discussed above pertain to an image such as this? FWIW, I'm not attempting to get the file deleted out of process; I just think discussing it might help us reach a resolution regarding this matter. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:39, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Also pinging Hawkeye7, Green Giant, and Seraphimblade. -- George Ho ( talk) 19:27, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Started the RFC: #RfC: Waiting time period to upload acceptable non-free images of deceased persons. George Ho ( talk) 19:17, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
10. Pictures of deceased persons, in articles about that person, provided that ever obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely. Note that in the case the image is from a press agency or photo agency (e.g., AP, Corbis or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary it is assumed automatically to fail "respect for commercial opportunity".
Seeking a free image of a person has been encouraged. However, the appropriate time to upload a non-free image of a deceased person has not yet been decided. Also, the above rule lacks a supplement or footnote. Which proposal do you support or oppose as the supplement or footnote to the above rule? Why or why not? If you support a proposal but do not agree with its suggested waiting time period, what do you suggest is the best waiting time to upload an acceptable non-free image of a deceased person? If you support neither of the existing proposals, what is your alternative proposal? See more background at " Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 67#Criteria needed for using images of deceased persons?" -- George Ho ( talk) 19:16, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
“ | Editors should not immediately upload non-free images of deceased persons upon their death. Instead, editors are expected to seek out existing free imagery that may have been made before the death, or if possible engage with relatives and friends of the person to see if they can offer free images, allowing for some period of mourning. In lieu of any documented effort to find such pictures, it is suggested that editors wait about 90 days from the date of death before uploading an acceptable non-free image. However, there are reasonable exceptions to this that may shorten this waiting time, such as well-documented efforts that were made prior to the person's death to find free imagery (such as has been made at Talk:Kim Jong-un/Archive 5#Rfc: Use of non-free image). Editors should also consider the time applicability of the biographies of living persons policy to the recently deceased; once BLP clearly no longer applies to a deceased person, then an acceptable non-free image (assume no free one exists by that point) is allowed. | ” |
there are reasonable exceptions to this that may shorten this waiting time".
“ | As the period immediately following a person's demise is likely to see an increased demand for licensing non-free images for obituaries, no new non-free images of such person may be included before one month (31 days) after the date of such person's death. | ” |
Status Quo: No new policy or guideline is needed
Copy and paste the whole subsection and modify it for your own proposal
*Comment the claim made above that "As soon as someone dies, obtaining a new free image becomes impossible." is patently absurd, illogical and incorrect. I have personally made requests of universities, websites, web hosts etc and people on Flickr to submit, or change licensing arrangements such that we can use images of those people who are recently deceased. What is this "new" image claim? Fair use isn't about "new images"? Uploading a picture of a dead person within hours or days is pure lazy, do some work, ask around, if you fail then perhaps we should consider fair use, and we absolutely need guidelines on this. We don't need a "after six months" rule, but we need a "justifiable and evidential efforts have been made to obtain a free image post-mortem". To argue against is absurd.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:07, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Focus on improving the encyclopedia itself, rather than demanding more from other Wikipedians". I wonder whether demanding a free image from others violates that. So is demanding a high-quality encyclopedia. -- George Ho ( talk) 14:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Item #9 says, "Restrictions on location. Non-free content is allowed only in articles (not disambiguation pages), and only in article namespace, subject to exemptions."
Problems: non-free images – the images themselves – are actually in the File: namespace, which this rule officially prohibits.
I'm tempted to ignore this, because I'm not feeling clever enough to figure out how to say "You can keep non-free content in the File: namespace (iff they're fair-use for use in an article), except that you really can't keep non-free content in the File: namespace". I would be sorry to add "You can keep non-free content in the File: space" because I suspect that it would be misunderstood and result in copyright violations. But I leave this note here in the hope that a solution will be obvious to someone else, and that this little knot will be untangled. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 06:24, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
At Wikipedia talk:File Upload Wizard there is an issue of whether the Wizard leaving some of the NFC rationale fields as "n.a." is appropriate or not. -- MASEM ( t) 16:05, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
The last sentence of WP:NFEXMP reads as follows: "Article images may appear in article preview popups." This was a version added with this edit by Alsee, but it seems like it might be too much of a simplification of what was discused in Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 65#When it can't be helped. The reason I am bringing this up is because of some non-free images which were flagged as being NFCC#9 violations in Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee/Articles/6 and Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee/Articles/2. I removed the images from the pages, but they are being claimed as NFCC exemptions here. Are these kinds of pages considered exemptions to NFCCP? If they are not, then the last sentence should be clarified to state so and "article preview popups" should be clarified/defined. If they are, then it seems like quite a number of pages in the Wikipedia namespace could be seen as "article preview popups" broadly defined, couldn't they? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 09:04, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Is there a way to deal with duplicate non-free files which are pretty identical in every way except for their names. For example, File:Norwegian Air International Logo.png and File:Norwegianairshuttlelogo2013.png seem identical to me. The former appears to have been uploaded specifically for use in Norwegian Air International while the latter is being used in Norwegian Air Shuttle and Norwegian Long Haul. It seems the "international logo" actually started out as a separate version, but was updated to be the same file. Re-uploading the same file to try and address WP:NFCC#10c or WP:NFC#UUI17 issues does not seem like the best thing to do. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:02, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2017 June 23.
Marchjuly (
talk)
03:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
How is WP:NFCCP usually applied to user-created montages of non-free images such as File:Versions of the Master.png? These types of images seem to not be allowed per WP:NFG unless it is a montage created by the original copyright holder. Do we need a non-free use rationale for each individual image used in the montage? I also came across something similar with File:Trio-collage.jpg. This file's rationale provides more detail about the origin of each image used, but I'm not still quite sure if this is acceptable per WP:NFCCP since it is once again a user created montage. In addition, it also seems that in cases like these, the montage itself might be considered a WP:DERIVATIVE and thus require a separate copyright licensing in addition to the one(s) for the underlying non-free images. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WT:FFD#Relisting FFD's.
Marchjuly (
talk) 07:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC) --
Marchjuly (
talk)
07:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps it is time to establish a consensus on the meaning of "no consensus" when it comes to FFD discussions involving non-free content use. Since WP:NFCCP clearly states that non-free content use is not automatic, and WP:NFCCE clearly states that the burden is placed upon those wanting to use non-free content to provide a valid non-free use rationale, the lack of a clear consensus means that the policy is not being met. There are, however, some who feel the opposite and that the default should be to "keep" a file in such cases. This probably needs to be discussed and decided upon via a WP:RFC involving a lot of different editors for whatever is decided to actually stand the test of time. I think this is an important enough matter in that how its decided is going to have a big impact as to how enforceable the NFCCP is going be in the future. Some editors seem to be of the opinion that the NFCCP should be more interpreted like " fair use" and is too restrictive in its current form. I'm not necessarily agreeing with these people, but "no consensus" to "keep" does seem to be further moving things in that direction. If that's what the project wants, then maybe the time has come to reassess the NFCCP and adjust it accordingly. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 10:33, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
I tried searching archives for a similar question, but a lot of conversations were over 10 years old so wanted to ask for knowledgeable persons response. If I wanted to add one non-free image into a new article for a list of cast members of a reality show ( The Challenge), would the following case be acceptable for one image, with the rest of images being free-use content. The cast member has appeared on 15 of the 30 seasons, and has the most wins all time and most prize money won all time. There are several free use images being used in the draft I have, but I couldn't find a good image for him and wanted to see if using a cast photo [8] or preferably something found elsewhere would be able to be argued for fair use. Outside of MTV and The Challenge, he isn't going to have notability for his own page so the image wouldn't be used anywhere else. Any thoughts are appreciated. WikiVirus C (talk) 18:40, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
("The Real World" collided with the actual real world Tuesday when alums of the network's reality shows turned up on Capitol Hill to help Duffy, now a congressman from Wisconsin, launch the Ovarian Cancer Caucus.)
{{
cite web}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
WikiVirus
C
(talk)
21:10, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure why, but User:Wiki Feed Bot keeps adding non-free images to pages outside of the article namespace. I've discussing this with Fako85, the bot's creator, at User talk:Fako85#Non-free image use and thought the issue was going to be resolved. Is anyone aware of a way to set these types of bots up so that they do not add non-free content to pages? Does the problem have to do with something other than the bot? I can understand if this was a case of a non-free file shadowing a Commons file, but that does not seem to be an issue in almost all of these cases. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:16, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:VPR#NFCC #8 and Discographies. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
13:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:BLPN#Robert Conroy Goldston. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
01:54, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to change references to WP:NFCC or WP:NFCCP in templates and other policy/guideline pages from "fair use" to "non-free use" or "non-free content use". Many of the non-free content templates in Category:File deletion templates seem to treat the two ideas as one and the same, which they really are not; for example, templates such as Template:Di-orphaned fair use, Template:Di-disputed fair use rationale and Template:Di-replaceable fair use should be renamed and otherwise edited for clarification. There is an important distinction that Wikipedia makes between its policy for non-free content use and what is typically understood to be fair use under US copyright law. Many editors associate fair use with the more liberal definition of US copyright law whereas Wikipedia's policy is much more restrictive. I think it might help eliminate some confusion if, at least in templates, etc., we stick to Wikipedia's chosen wording. This won't, of course, stop editors from thinking they both are the same and referring to them as such, but it at least in Wikipedia's voice the distinction will be made. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
File talk:Charmayne James and Scamper.jpg. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
21:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
The images that were originally uploaded by User talk:Wally Wiglet as the authors own work bare no resemblance whatsoever to the source images http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-lha.html from which their design concept was based on see my comments here explaining the differences File talk:Flag of the Admiralty Board.svg and here File talk:Flag of the Navy Board.svg he released them originally under Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication which was correct and true and had any body actually bothered to check both the CRW Flag's versions against the authors own designed versions using a reliable editing program like photoshop you can very clearly see they are not the same images so what was freely given for free public use that can be copied and even altered and for commercial and non commercial use has been assigned as an Non Free Image this needs looking at again and IMO reversing.-- Navops47 ( talk) 07:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
@
BU Rob13,
Masem,
Hawkeye7,
Seraphimblade,
ClemRutter,
Jo-Jo Eumerus, and
Hammersoft:
Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 67#Change "fair use" to "non-free content" has been archived apparently unresolved. While everyone who posted appears to be in favor of proposal (at least nobody directly opposed it), it's not clear as to how to best achieve it. Masem's comment about making sure that any changes to the relevant templates will not massively break anything
does seem to be something which needs to be considered. How do we proceed from here? Is an agreement on WT:NFCC considered "consensus-enough" for a change? Does more more input need to be sought at
WP:VP or somewhere else? --
Marchjuly (
talk)
22:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
It is assumed that non-free content is not allowed to be used in the template namespace per WP:NFCC#9, but I have been unable to find any direct mentions of such on any policy/guideline pages. People familiar with the NFCC probably understand that the wording of NFCC#9 by default eliminates the other namespaces, but maybe this can be clarified a bit more. Athough there is some guidance for user pages ( WP:UP#Non-free files), drafts ( WP:DRAFTS#Preparing drafts), and userboxes ( WP:UBX#Caution about image use), there is not for templates that I can find. I asked about this at Help talk:Template#Non-free image use a few months back, but got no response. So, I figure I'll ask here as well to see what other's think.
Another thing I noticed about non-free files and templates is that some templates seem to be using them "indirectly"; in other words, the non-free file is not being directly added to the template itself, but rather the file's markup is being added to the template's documentation so that it can be called up when the template is added to an article. The non-free file is defined as a page recognized by one of the template's parameters, so it does not show up as being used in the template namespace; it will, however, be indirectly added to articles via the template whenever the relevant parameter is defined accordingly. This seems to be something in my opinion which might need to be looked and since basically a non-free image can be indirectly added to multiple articles in ways where non-free use would no be acceptable and which are not provided with valid non-free use rationales. I am not sure how widespread of an issue this may be, but Template:Infobox country at games ( File:Fédération International de Natation Amateur flag.gif) and Template:Infobox road ( File:Red Coat Trail (Alberta).svg) are some examples of this which I have come across. The files in parathesis are not directly added to the template page, but they are added somewhere to the template's documentation page an show up when called by the template into articles. In some cases, like with the "Red Coat Trail" someone seems to have attempted to provide a non-free use rationale (nfur) for the use, but there are others times where no nfur is provided . Even when a nfur is provided for an parricular use, it may not be valid or there may be other uses of the same file within the same article where a rationale is lacking like it the case of Alberta Highway 4, Alberta Highway 501, Alberta Highway 61. Maybe some editors assume that if the file is OK for the template documentation, it's OK to use in an article (even multiple times).
NFCC#9 begins with "Non-free content is allowed only in articles" so maybe techinically adding non-free files to articles indirectly via templates is OK per se. However, I do think that allowing such a thing can be problematic and lead to excessive non-free use because an editor may just be copying-and-pasting templates into article and assuming that all of the images called up by the template are OK to use. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 23:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
I have been pointed out that the category Category:Publicity photographs with missing fair-use rationale recently had the nogallery tag added. It is a maintenance category and related to non-free, and from what I was told (see talk page), having images present helped to clean it up faster (identiying logos, identifying images likely all uploaded at same time belonging to one article that would all be improper non-frees, etc.) I recommend we consider this an exemption for non-free in categories to add it to Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions and restore the allowance for galleries. -- MASEM ( t) 14:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 60 | ← | Archive 65 | Archive 66 | Archive 67 | Archive 68 | Archive 69 | Archive 70 |
I have a question about the application of Template:Non-free architectural work. The way the template currently reads (particularly in the "Note" section) it seems that the template is only intended to apply to proposed buildings/structures currently under construction or whose construction is expected to begin sometime in the future. However, I've noticed from scanning through Category:Non-free architectural works that the template is also occasionally being used for the following types of files as well:
Many of the files in the category are being used as the primary means of identification in stand-alone articles about the building structure in question, so I could see an argument for non-free use. Many others are, however, being used within subsections (in some cases within secondary infoboxes) of articles where the building/structure may be mentioned, but the image appears mainly decorative and problematic per NFCC#8 or NFCC#3.
It seems that the template is intended for the stand-alone articles about building/structures which are currently under construction or whose construction has been proposed, and for files which can be expected to be replaced by a free equivalent image once the building, etc. has been completed. Photos of buildings, etc. which no longer exist or whose projects have been cancelled may qualify for PD or as {{ Non-free historic image}}, but I don't see how they qualify for this template. Same goes for floor plans, concept art, ships etc. which may be OK as {{ Non-free 2D art}} or something similar, but do not seem to be appropriate for this template.
I understand my interpretation of how it should be used may be incorrect, but once again the template's current wording seems to imply I am not too far off base. Perhaps the template's wording and documentation should to be tweaked to clarify the aforementioned points to avoid any misunderstandings? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Non-free architectural work
is the problem. It suggests it's for any non-free architecture photo. Whether the fix is to rename the template or to broaden its scope to "non-existent buildings" I dunno.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
08:29, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
File:BrumAFA.jpg is tagged as non-free logo, but I can't see that anything in it has copyright. Apart from a very old coat-of-arms, it's simple typography. Am I correct, and if so, what should be done? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Is it really appropriate to add a fair use image to a biographical article three days after the person's death? Whenever I see such discussions, the advice is normally to give it six months so as to provide an opportunity to locate a suitable free image. Seeing how many others obviously have no desire to do that sort of work, I'm not surprised to see this, but I think it's within reason to question whether it's appropriate. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 18:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
FYI, I let {{ Non-free use rationale}} and {{ Non-free use rationale 2}} populate a new hidden tracking category Category:Wikipedia non-free files with redirect backlink. I did not put this category itself in Category:Files for cleanup or Category:Wikipedia file maintenance (for now), since my interpretation of WP:NFCCP 10c is that redirects to a page that uses the non-free media is acceptable. (Although it might be fair to consider the implications now that a category is available to fix these instances, whether we can tighten 10c?) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 17:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
US law is not clear as to whether the vectorization of the logo has its own copyright which exists in addition to any copyright on the actual logo. To avoid this uncertainty, editors who upload vector images of non-free logos should use a vector image that was produced by the copyright holder of the logo and should not use a vector image from a site such as seeklogo.com where the vectorization of a logo may have been done without authorization from the logo's copyright holder.
Two issues:
— βox73 (৳alk) 03:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
According to c:COM:FOP#France, there is only limited freedom of paranoia in France when it comes to buildings and other permanently installed structures. Does this mean that a student at a French university cannot take a photograph of one the buildings on campus and upload to Commons under a free license or to Wikipedia locally as {{ PD-USonly}}? The reason I am asking is because I tagged File:Panthéon-Assas University, Facade.jpg as replaceable fair use because I wasn't aware at the time of the distinction made by France when it comes to FoP. Although I do not feel the reasons given by the uploader are really valid when it comes to WP:NFCC#1, the FoP thing is something which might make replaceable fair use impossible. If the file has to be treated as non-free, then each use of it is still subject to all of the other NFCCP, right? The way the file is currently being used does not seem to satisfy WP:NFCC#8, regardless of NFCC#1, and I don't see how it can satisfy NFCC#8 without including specific sourced coverage of the building's exterior appearance in the article. Right now, the non-free of the file is purely decorative and contextual and removing the image would not be detrimental to the reader's understanding in any way.
Would France's FoP rules also apply to the interiors of buildings, etc.? If they do, then File:Panthéon-Assas University, Patio.jpg, File:Panthéon-Assas University, Mezzanine.jpg and File:Panthéon-Assas University, Conseils.jpg probably also should have the rfu tags I added removed since free equivalents cannot be created. However, like the photo of the building exterior, there is no real context for using these images in the article, so the NFCC#8 concerns mentioned above also apply to these; moreover, the reasons given for disputing the replaceable fair use by the uploader do not seem sufficient to justify their non-free use.
If the rfu tags have been inappropriately added, then I have no issues with them being removed; I still, however, do not see how these would then satisfy all 10 NFCCP to justify their non-free use. Anyway, I would appreciate some feedback on this and perhaps some suggestions on what should be done regarding these files. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:33, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello. Editors who are participants of the Television project are working on updating the wording to MOS:TV, to better reflect current practices. Currently, we are working on the wording for WP:TVIMAGE, and I just wanted to reach out to any editors who may have better knowledge of the NFCC criteria to join the discussion to ensure we are making note of everything necessary at MOS:TV. Editors interested can find the discussion here. Thanks. - Favre1fan93 ( talk) 18:14, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 October 5#File:Siège SNCF Saint-Denis.jpg. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
08:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 October 5#File:Siège SNCF Saint-Denis.jpg. -
Marchjuly (
talk)
08:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been thinking about a notification template to use in conjunction with {{ di-missing article links}} and {{ di-missing some article links}}. Unlike some other di-templates, there is no specific notification template for these templates, so I have been using {{ di-disputed fair use rationale-notice}} in lieu. Anyway, I'm not too experienced when it comes to creating templates, but what I've come up with can be seen at User:Marchjuly/sandbox/New NFCC notification template. Any suggestions or comments that others might have on this would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:44, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been thinking about a notification template to use in conjunction with {{ di-missing article links}} and {{ di-missing some article links}}. Unlike some other di-templates, there is no specific notification template for these templates, so I have been using {{ di-disputed fair use rationale-notice}} in lieu. Anyway, I'm not too experienced when it comes to creating templates, but what I've come up with can be seen at User:Marchjuly/sandbox/New NFCC notification template. Any suggestions or comments that others might have on this would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:44, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
In considering NFCC#1, what do editors think is a reasonable timeframe that we would allow the use of non-free when we are fully aware that a free replacement will be possible in the future? In other words, when we say if a free image "could" be obtained, how much time leeway do we allow?
As an extreme example, we rarely concern ourselves with the end of copyright life of a work, and never use the logical that we can't use the copyrighted image because in 75 years it will be free. But more practically, this situation comes about primarily with buildings under construction (using an artist's rendering as an interim work), and utilitarian consumer products that are announced months ahead of their commercial release (using press materials in the meantime). Case in point is the Nintendo Switch announced today, but not for sale for 5 months.
I believe that we've implicitly used a 6 month rule in the past at least for buildings. That is, if the building is to be near completion in 6 months or sooner, a free image can be had with patience and we'd not allow a new non-free to be used (though give leeway if a non-free had been in place for years, removing that as soon as a free image can be taken). But I would like to gain input and add language to this for a rough guideline on the matter. -- MASEM ( t) 22:25, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
NFCC 3b says: "Minimal extent of use. An entire work is not used if a portion will suffice. Low- rather than high-resolution/fidelity/bit rate is used (especially where the original could be used for deliberate copyright infringement). This rule also applies to the copy in the File: namespace."
The rule of thumb offered on the policy page is to be around 0.1 megapixel. Take as an example an image 288 x 360 px (103,680 pixels). Rendered on a 24" 1080p screen (53x30 cm), this produces an image that is physically 8 x 10 cm (3.15" x 3.94"). But when displayed on a 24" 4K screen, this produces an image that is only 4 x 5 cm (1.57" x 1.97"). That's smaller than even an average thumbnail displayed on a 1080p screen (default thumbnail is 220 px, being 6.1 cm on a 1080p screen. And that's the shorter dimension).
I believe the rules on 0.1 megapixels should be significantly relaxed to 0.4 or 0.5 megapixels, resulting in sizes on 4K screens comparable to those currently on 1080p screens. Screen sizes are increasing, and if the image size guidelines do not then Wikipedia's non-free images will only be suitable for ants. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 01:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Cover arts are most preferred by multiple users for singles. I nominated the following images for deletion/discussion (whatever you call it), but I'm listing ones that are ongoing:
"Most preferred" does not imply "irreplaceability", yet the participants at FFD think otherwise. The issue on singles needs wider discussion. Meanwhile, I'm inviting you to improve consensus on individual images at the FFD rather than here. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I've uploaded an image to the page December 2016 Congolese protests after it was mentioned on Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates that this article needed an image. The protests take place in DRC a country with almost no internet usage and 0 active Wikipedians (to the best of my knowledge). Basically, it's impossible to get another image. Following the example of a Reuters image that was uploaded in October and placed on the 2016 Eséka train derailment page, I uploaded a low resolution screen grab image from AFP. This was then tagged by Ramaksoud2000 but I don't see any difference between what I have done and what DatGuy has done. Please help us to resolve this. Thank you. Monopoly31121993 ( talk) 13:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
The discussion Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Allow FFD discussions to be closed as delete via NAC has started. It proposes allowing non-admins to close FFD discussions. I invite you to comment there. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:49, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
There's a general issue that you guys may have covered extensively beforehand, but if an individual dies and there's no image of them on Wikipedia, is there any guidance on how long one should wait before uploading a fair use, low resolution image of them? Strikes me we have hundreds of thousands of biographies that lack images of those who have died variously from today to fifty years back, so where does the project draw the line? Or is the line a woolly one? The Rambling Man ( talk) 20:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Is Category:Possibly free images an exemption to the NFCC? I can't find it listed in Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions. I'm wondering if the category is subject to WP:NFG and __NOGALLERY__ should be added or if the category should be added as an exemption to the NFCC since it seems to be a maintenance category like the categories listed. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:15, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I firmly believe that to support Wikipedia outreach with cultural partnerships, the common sense and minimal usage of logos on the Wikipedia:Meetup namespaces should be relaxed and allowed. These company and cultural institution logo images are part of Commons, are used for outreach and promotion, and work to support partnership efforts from an information knowledge perspective. I believe this super restrictive policy should be relaxed and/or re-evaluated. This policy is not helpful and seeing as the images are part of Commons already, allowing usage is neither disruptive nor prohibitive usage. It makes us look unprofessional to partners and re-inforces problems with text-heavy pages that have few if any graphics. If the cultural institutions are willing to donate their high quality logos to Commons, and there are great GLAM outreach efforts being cultivated, the use of these logos would greatly benefit everyone. -- Erika aka BrillLyle ( talk) 08:33, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: I am writing start class biographies such as the still unreviewed Peter G. Morgan (Virginia politician) to blue link names in the Chart of Delegates found at Virginia Constitutional Convention of 1868, beginning with those who were also members of the Virginia Assembly. These notables are referred to in Pulliam’s “The Constitutional Conventions of Virginia from the Foundation…” (1901), Swem’s “Register of the the General Assembly of Virginia…" (1918), --- and sometimes Jackson’s “Negro Office-Holders in Virginia, 1865-1895” (1945). The last gives biographical sketches following Reconstruction until the completion of Jim Crow disenfranchisement in Virginia for the African-American delegates omitted in Pulliam.
I have found three portraits online at a government source, those for Peter G. Morgan, Daniel M. Norton, and James W. D. Bland.
The photos go into the Encyclopedia Virginia on line published by the Library of Virginia from the University of Virginia Special Collections, identified as --- a portrait by an unknown photographer at an unknown date, reproduced in Luther Porter Jackson’s “Negro Office-Holders in Virginia, 1865-1895” (1945). I have obtained a copy for my personal library. There is no special notation as to copyright noted for the photos, though in catalogues it is noted that a copyright was secured by Luther Porter Jackson in 1946 for the book.
Can these portraits be downloaded onto Wikicommons and used in Wikipedia articles? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 07:13, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Just to let you know that User:Theo's Little Bot cannot handle TIF files and seems to corrupt these when it tries it resize them. I've gone back to the start of January and reverted the image uploads, but there may be earlier problems that have not yet been fixed. The task is currently disabled due to this issue per a request. I don't think Theopolisme is currently active so this problem may not be fixed quickly. Also notifying User:Ronhjones so he is aware of this problem. — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 11:34, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem and Nyttend: Something recently happened when the new note about the WMF was added to the article. Previously, WP:NFC#cite_note-2 would link to the note at bottom of the article regarding the non-free of cover art. However, that link is now WP:NFC#cite_note-3. I have no problems with this other than that particular note has been cited in quite a number of cover art related discussion, and the links in this discussion will no longer work correctly. Is there a way to fix the linking in the NFC page using an WP:ANCHOR, so that the old links redirect to cite_note-3 or a way to turn that link into a shortcut so that the old links still work? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
I invite you to comment and/or participate on the above ideas about obtaining more free images of persons. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Was wondering if Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons reviewed by XXN is something which should be added to Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions? I'm not sure whether it's an administrative category or more of a personal category for XXN. The reason I'm asking is because a number of the files in the category are still licensed as non-free which might meant that the "NOGALLERY" code needs to be added per WP:NFG and WP:NFCC#9. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:32, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
I have a question regarding the use of non-free image is stand-alone articles about characters from TV shows and movies. I can understand using a non-free image when the appearance of the fictional character is quite different from the appearance of the actor/actress in real life. Maybe the special makeup or a costume involved so that the character has a particular unique appearance. How is non-free use evaluated in cases where the character and the real life actor/actress basically look the same? For example. File:EricMurphy.jpg is a non-free image being used to identify the character Eric Murphy for the TV show/movie Entourage yet there are some freely licensed images of Kevin Connolly, the actor who plays the role, found in c:Category:Kevin Connolly. There's not much of a difference between the character look and the actors real world appearance, so I am wondering if non-free image use satisfies NFCC#1 in such cases. I understand Connolly is not playing himself and the show is not a reality TV show per se (even though it may be partly based upon real world experiences), so is that reason alone sufficient to justify non-free use. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:37, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
For the article Eric Murphy: well, there's only one third-party source cited at all, it's of questionable reliability, it's dead, and it certainly doesn't cite anything in the article about the character's appearance. Drovethrughosts ( talk · contribs) claimed that the file "illustrates the text next to which it appears, which describes the character portrayed." However, there is no such reliably-sourced text in the article as it stands today. I'd remove it from the (already-betroubled) Eric Murphy article and then tag the file with {{ di-orphaned fair use}}. — fourthords | =Λ= | 02:36, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
As for the common application of policies ("with legal considerations" or not), we still have a consternating policy in place called Ignore all rules. — fourthords | =Λ= | 17:24, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
I've just uploaded File:Authagraph projection.jpg. As I rarely upload non-free images, I'd be grateful if someone could review and if necessary improve my case for doing so, on that page, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:42, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
How does WP:NFCC#1 apply to individuals who are no longer professionally active in the manner which have made them Wikipedia notable? For example, an actor/actress who has not been active in quite a number of years and who basically has decided to lead a relatively unknown and quiet life ever since. The person may still be only known for a role they played so many years ago, and for whatever reason has pretty much decided to stay out the the public eye. I am bringing this up because of something I read at File talk:Barry Stokes (actor).jpg. To me a BLP is ideally about a person's entire life, not just a particular role they may have played at one time in their life, and that is something that should be kept in mind when it comes to the infobox image. I can understand arguments being made in favor of non-free use in the case of a child actor whose appearance naturally changed as they grew older, or perhaps even if for people who have had a serious accident, etc. which has drastically changed their appearance.
Can we, however, make the same allowance for living individuals who have simply moved on/retired from a career which made them notable simply to show them as they looked at their peak of fame? It seems to me that there might be quite a number of BLP subjects who would prefer to have a non-free image showing them at their peak appearance used in their articles if the choice whas between a less appealing freely licensed equivalent/no image at all. We could actually add lots of non-free stuff to BLPs lacking a photo if this kind of thing is considered acceptable as common practice. I am not arguing that we should do this, but I am trying to understand how NFCC#1 should be applied in these types of cases. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Marchjuly. I do wish to argue for the file, and have responded Hammersoft to you on my talk page. Beryl reid fan ( talk) 20:27, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Currently, the exemption regarding retired groups and individuals in item 1 of WP:NFC#UUI reads as follows:
For some retired or disbanded groups, or retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable.
As I read this exemption and based upon the above discussion, it seems quite clear to me that the question has to do with the connection between physical appearance and notability. To me this is where the emphasis is, not simply the fact that a person is retired. Some poeple, however, seem to be placing the emphasis on "retired" as if being retired in and of itself is a justification for non-free use. So, I am wondering if the visual appearance aspect should be emphasised and clarified in a way to make this clearer. Maybe italics, bold or a combination of the two could be used to make this important point clearer. Perhaps something like this:
For some retired or disbanded groups, or retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable.
I'm also wondering if "would be acceptable" should be changed "may be acceptable" since "would" seems to apply in all cases, but there is really no "all cases" when it comes to non-free use per WP:OTHERIMAGE. It might be also helpful to add something about simply wanting to show the person is not enough to justify non-free use when their Wikipedia notability is not connected to their appearance. Anyway, I'm interested in hearing what others think. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 03:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
would work? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 14:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)A non-free image may be acceptable for (a) some retired or disbanded groups in cases where obtaining an image of all of the members together is considered to be impossible and (b) some retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance in cases where a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career.
I think Masem's proposed wording is a definite improvement over the current version, but I'm still not sure about "is reasonable". Using "is" seems to imply use is pretty much accepted as default. Maybe it's just me, but "may be reasonable" or "can be reasonable" seems better even though either might not be the best way to express such an idea. Anything which might be seen to imply that such usage is acceptable by default seems to switch the burden from being one of "having to justify how non-free use is acceptable" to "one "having to justify how non-free use is not acceptable", which seems contrary to WP:NFCCE. I am only bringing this up because of Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 February 3#File:1925 William Preston.jpg where the use of the plural "articles" in item 10 of WP:NFCI is being argued as sufficient justification keeping a non-free image of a deceased individual in a related election article even though such usage does not seem consistent with established FFD consensus.
FWIW, I also can see Hammersoft's point about still-living band members, unless there is something unique about the group's appearance as a whole (for example, Kiss (band) where the band visual appearance might have been just as notable as their music). So, perhaps this does need to be better clarified in point A. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:42, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 March 18#File:United States Postal Service Logo.svg.
Marchjuly (
talk)
00:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
I tried to add {{ Missing rationale2}} to Talk:Andorra women's national football team, but something strange seemed to happen. The template looks fine, but you're taken to the template's editing window (not the take page's) when your try to edit the thread. I checked another page where the template was added and the same thing happens. Maybe I added the template incorrectly or maybe this is what's suppose to happen. If the latter is the case, then this seems like a flaw which could lead to the accidental editing of the template itself. Anyone familiar with this template. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 23:16, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
A recent Supreme Court ruling in Star Athletica v Varsity Brands will affect files on the English Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. The ruling essentially states that any design elements of a useful article (clothing, cars, etc.) can by copyrightable if (i) the design elements can be separated from the useful article itself into a 2D or 3D work of art, and (ii) that work of art would be copyrightable. Note that the first prong of that test is quite broad, as interpreted by the Court, basically stating that if you can take a picture of something, that's "separating" it from the useful article. Dissenting opinions in the 6–2 decision stated the obvious that just taking a picture of clothing doesn't make it not clothing, as the shape of the useful article is still present, but sadly the majority did not agree. The short of it is that many more images will now be free after applying de minimis when that principle wasn't necessary before, and images that focus primarily on useful articles may become non-free and fall under the non-free content criteria.
Full text of ruling: [3] SCOTUSblog summary: [4]
Along these lines, I have a bot task proposed that will slightly alter the text in ~400 non-free use rationales to note that the uniforms in question are under both trademark and copyright protection, not just trademark. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/BU RoBOT 35. ~ Rob13 Talk 13:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: reverted my addition of a reference table to get fair-use image dimensions with the summary "Understand this was added in good faith, but as soon as put in hard numbers, they are gamed."
I don't understand how the values in the table help in "gaming" as the total acceptable number of pixels is already specified in the article: 100,000.
Regardless, as in the law, hard numbers make it objective for both the uploader and patroller to decide whether or not an image is acceptable. Otherwise, one would just be guessing whether it's the right number or not, and one might have to push one's luck by progressively uploading smaller and smaller images until it sticks, wasting both uploader and reviewers' time.
Addtionally, there is already a link to a tool that does the same thing, but with an extra form to fill and click through. (The tool also slightly exceeds the 100,000, probably due to rounding error.)
Any thoughts anyone?
Thanks,
cmɢʟee⎆
τaʟκ
19:13, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
It doesn't appear that AfC creations are "officially" an exception to the requirement that non-free content only be used in mainspace, meaning that technically every non-free image used on an AfC draft is violating policy, unless I'm missing something. Just... in case anyone cares. TimothyJosephWood 14:44, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
AFC is primarily for assessing Wikipedia notability, right?it's...somewhat more involved than that, but close enough. But somehow the part of my brain that processes image rationales, and the part that reviews AfC drafts never... quite met one another. While it may not be relevant to notability, I'm not particularly looking forward to having to explain the whole thing to a new editor in a way that doesn't sound like complete Greek. TimothyJosephWood 15:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Item 10 of WP:NFCI allows non-free images to be used as the primary means of identification at the top of articles about deceased individual in certain cases. It also says that a image from a press of photo agency like Getty may be used if the image itself is the subject of critical commentary within the article in question. A non-free image used as the primary means of identification at the top of an article is typically considered to satisfy WP:NFCC#8 even if the image itself is specifically not subject to an critical commentary within the article, right? Is the same considered for Getty images? For example, File:Actress Agnes Lauchlan.jpg is being used to identify Agnes Lauchlan, but it is sourced to Getty and licenses to it are being sold on the Getty website for what looks like quite a bit of money. The non-free may not be as high in quality as the original Getty one, but it is without a watermark and could fairly be easily downloaded and used. Of course, Wikipedia cannot control what people do with the files they download, but I am wondering if we should be accepting commercially viable images such as this even as non-free content. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone know why File:Bert-yank-levy-a-foremost-authority-on-guerilla-warfare-at-us-training-school.jpg is listed as being used in Portal:Nautical. I've looked at the Portal page's mark up, but I can't find the image anywhere in there. Is it possible this file is being transculded from somewhere else by mistake? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 13:19, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:VP/T#Listeria bot again. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
22:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I updated the guideline indicating the implementation of applying WP:PROD to files. -- George Ho ( talk) 04:19, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
What about updating Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria to reflect that? -- George Ho ( talk) 04:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
The section Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Acceptable_use does not list videos. So what would be acceptable? It is the same as an audio clip? OR should it be a merge of image and audio? This video File:Don't Look Now love scene .ogg cam to my attention as a Wikipedia search for images over a certain resolution got this one listed - I assume WP picked out the "853 × 480 pixels", which was over the size I was searching for. The length of the clip is 30 seconds, which is OK for length - do we need the image size to be reduced as well to 421 x 237? Ronhjones (Talk) 23:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 May 10#File:United States Postal Service Logo.svg.
Marchjuly (
talk) 00:37, 11 May 2017 (UTC) --
Marchjuly (
talk)
00:37, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I understand that there are a few written (and unwritten) exemptions allowed for WP:NFCC#1. I am wondering if there is also an allowance given to the wishes of the subject of the article. Suppose the subject of a BLP has specifically asked that a photo showing them not be added to the article for reasons of privacy. Even though the individual does seem to occassionally appear in public at official events, they still do not want an image of them being used in the article. Would it be acceptable in such a case to use another non-free image, say a non-free logo of a business, etc. owned by the individual, as the means of primary information in the main infobox?
The specific example I am thinking of is CGP Grey. Grey is a YouTube personality who has requrested on the article's talk page that no image of him be added to the article. In order to respect his wishes, a non-free logo of Grey's YouTube channel was added to the main infobox, but it was deleted per File talk:CGPGreySymbol.png. The same logo was then reuploaded the PD-logo jpg File:CGPGrey Logo.jpg, but that has also been deleted. Is there any possible way to justify the use of a non-free logo, etc. to serve as the primary means of identifying Grey? The closest I could think of would be trying to use non-free cover art to identify an artist, author, musician in a BLP about the concerned individual, but this is something not typically considered acceptabe per items 8 and 9 of WP:NFC#UUI. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:14, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there any possible way to justify the use of a non-free logo, etc. to serve as the primary means of identifying Grey?, I was asking the question not because I wanted to use the non-free logo as indentification of Grey, but because others had been doing so based upon Grey's desire for privacy. I tagged the original non-free file as rfu because I felt it was being used in such a way and doing so was inappropriate. So, I agree with everyone suggesting that non-free logos should not be used in such a way. I also agree with the concerns made about promotional use, which is why I don't think even a freely licensed version of the logo should be used like this. I've seen quite a number of articles about authors, artists, etc., where someone has added non-free cover art or non-free pictures of artistic works to the main infobox in place of a picture of the individual. Not sure why they've done this. Maybe they are aware of WP:NFCC#1 or maybe they just feel (as also pointed out) that some kind of image is mandatory/permitted basd upon a WP:OTHERIMAGE kind of rationale. I've have read posts in various discussions wherean editor claims a is must be needed for an infobox because there wouldn't be
|image=
if it wasn't. In some of these cases it may be possible to move the file to another section of the article, but in others you basically have no critical commentary of the work or cover art at all.I think the sentence "For example, to allow identification of music albums, books, etc., only an image of the front cover art of the object is normally used; .... ." in WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion might need some tweaking because there is not really a clear distinction made between main infobox use and use in other sections of an article or other sections of other articles. With respect to cover art, WP:NFC#cite_note#3 seems quite clear that use for "identification" is OK in stand-alone article about the work in question, but a much stronger justification is needed for other articles. A new editor unfamiliar with NFCCP might read the above sentence and assume that non-free use of cover art is acceptable anywhere as long as the file is being used to identify the work which is being discussed. Such an interpretation could be one reason why so many non-free cover art files have been inappropriately added to articles over the years; editors assume that discussing/mentioning an album means it's OK to show the cover identifying the album. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Seems to me that a list of criteria for images of deceased is overdue. The issue has been discussed numerous times without much success to limit such usage. Now we have non-free images of deceased challenged, like those of Reg Grundy and Helen Rollason. Before starting another RFC, I think we need to develop individual working criteria to individually propose. For instance, between the timing of death and when to upload appropriate, availability of images qualified for Commons, contacting photographers, etc. Pinging Aspects, Stephen, This is Paul, and Masem. -- George Ho ( talk) 19:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm... seems too broad. I'll narrow down to "irreplaceable" image instead. George Ho ( talk) 19:19, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Sounds to me that the timing criterion is the most important and most definite focus to amend criterion #10 for Acceptable use of images. Unsure about efforts to find a free image or convert unfree image into a free image. However, other criteria would likely need some incubation but would be unsuitable for the upcoming RFC. To work on other criteria, we can do that at another RFC. If we retry to ask others what criteria for "irreplaceable" image of deceased person should be, that would go nowhere.
Here's my working statement for the RfC (just for the timing criterion):
Past discussions about non-free images of deceased persons have not resulted in improved criteria. The images have been removed and/or then reinserted. Our current rule about images of deceased is this shown in Wikipedia:Non-free content#Acceptable use:
10. Pictures of deceased persons, in articles about that person, provided that ever obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely. Note that in the case the image is from a press agency or photo agency (e.g., AP, Corbis or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary it is assumed automatically to fail "respect for commercial opportunity".
To amend the criterion #10 of "Acceptable use" of images, what timing between a person's death and the time to upload an "irreplaceable" image of that person shall it be?
If the above needs some more work, what are your suggestions to amend the above proposal for RFC? -- George Ho ( talk) 03:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to establish "arbitrary break" for easier navigation. Seems to me that we can narrowly focus on inserting non-free images in existing BLPs at the time of a person's death. How long should a BLP exist until a person's death, and when will an editor insert a non-free noncommercial image? I hope I phrased it right. George Ho ( talk) 21:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Restarting this to bring up the case of Kim Jong-nam and File:Kim jong nam.jpg. Image uploaded a few days after his murder. This is a well-known person who was living in exile so there might have been a number of opportunities for a freely licensed image to have been created. He was killed while waiting for a commercial flight in a major international aiprort and even has visited some fairly well-known public places such as Tokyo Disneyland. This does not seem to be a person who lived in hiding out of fear of being seen, but rather someone who appeared in public quite a bit. How would what has been discussed above pertain to an image such as this? FWIW, I'm not attempting to get the file deleted out of process; I just think discussing it might help us reach a resolution regarding this matter. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:39, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Also pinging Hawkeye7, Green Giant, and Seraphimblade. -- George Ho ( talk) 19:27, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Started the RFC: #RfC: Waiting time period to upload acceptable non-free images of deceased persons. George Ho ( talk) 19:17, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
10. Pictures of deceased persons, in articles about that person, provided that ever obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely. Note that in the case the image is from a press agency or photo agency (e.g., AP, Corbis or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary it is assumed automatically to fail "respect for commercial opportunity".
Seeking a free image of a person has been encouraged. However, the appropriate time to upload a non-free image of a deceased person has not yet been decided. Also, the above rule lacks a supplement or footnote. Which proposal do you support or oppose as the supplement or footnote to the above rule? Why or why not? If you support a proposal but do not agree with its suggested waiting time period, what do you suggest is the best waiting time to upload an acceptable non-free image of a deceased person? If you support neither of the existing proposals, what is your alternative proposal? See more background at " Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 67#Criteria needed for using images of deceased persons?" -- George Ho ( talk) 19:16, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
“ | Editors should not immediately upload non-free images of deceased persons upon their death. Instead, editors are expected to seek out existing free imagery that may have been made before the death, or if possible engage with relatives and friends of the person to see if they can offer free images, allowing for some period of mourning. In lieu of any documented effort to find such pictures, it is suggested that editors wait about 90 days from the date of death before uploading an acceptable non-free image. However, there are reasonable exceptions to this that may shorten this waiting time, such as well-documented efforts that were made prior to the person's death to find free imagery (such as has been made at Talk:Kim Jong-un/Archive 5#Rfc: Use of non-free image). Editors should also consider the time applicability of the biographies of living persons policy to the recently deceased; once BLP clearly no longer applies to a deceased person, then an acceptable non-free image (assume no free one exists by that point) is allowed. | ” |
there are reasonable exceptions to this that may shorten this waiting time".
“ | As the period immediately following a person's demise is likely to see an increased demand for licensing non-free images for obituaries, no new non-free images of such person may be included before one month (31 days) after the date of such person's death. | ” |
Status Quo: No new policy or guideline is needed
Copy and paste the whole subsection and modify it for your own proposal
*Comment the claim made above that "As soon as someone dies, obtaining a new free image becomes impossible." is patently absurd, illogical and incorrect. I have personally made requests of universities, websites, web hosts etc and people on Flickr to submit, or change licensing arrangements such that we can use images of those people who are recently deceased. What is this "new" image claim? Fair use isn't about "new images"? Uploading a picture of a dead person within hours or days is pure lazy, do some work, ask around, if you fail then perhaps we should consider fair use, and we absolutely need guidelines on this. We don't need a "after six months" rule, but we need a "justifiable and evidential efforts have been made to obtain a free image post-mortem". To argue against is absurd.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:07, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Focus on improving the encyclopedia itself, rather than demanding more from other Wikipedians". I wonder whether demanding a free image from others violates that. So is demanding a high-quality encyclopedia. -- George Ho ( talk) 14:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Item #9 says, "Restrictions on location. Non-free content is allowed only in articles (not disambiguation pages), and only in article namespace, subject to exemptions."
Problems: non-free images – the images themselves – are actually in the File: namespace, which this rule officially prohibits.
I'm tempted to ignore this, because I'm not feeling clever enough to figure out how to say "You can keep non-free content in the File: namespace (iff they're fair-use for use in an article), except that you really can't keep non-free content in the File: namespace". I would be sorry to add "You can keep non-free content in the File: space" because I suspect that it would be misunderstood and result in copyright violations. But I leave this note here in the hope that a solution will be obvious to someone else, and that this little knot will be untangled. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 06:24, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
At Wikipedia talk:File Upload Wizard there is an issue of whether the Wizard leaving some of the NFC rationale fields as "n.a." is appropriate or not. -- MASEM ( t) 16:05, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
The last sentence of WP:NFEXMP reads as follows: "Article images may appear in article preview popups." This was a version added with this edit by Alsee, but it seems like it might be too much of a simplification of what was discused in Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 65#When it can't be helped. The reason I am bringing this up is because of some non-free images which were flagged as being NFCC#9 violations in Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee/Articles/6 and Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee/Articles/2. I removed the images from the pages, but they are being claimed as NFCC exemptions here. Are these kinds of pages considered exemptions to NFCCP? If they are not, then the last sentence should be clarified to state so and "article preview popups" should be clarified/defined. If they are, then it seems like quite a number of pages in the Wikipedia namespace could be seen as "article preview popups" broadly defined, couldn't they? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 09:04, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Is there a way to deal with duplicate non-free files which are pretty identical in every way except for their names. For example, File:Norwegian Air International Logo.png and File:Norwegianairshuttlelogo2013.png seem identical to me. The former appears to have been uploaded specifically for use in Norwegian Air International while the latter is being used in Norwegian Air Shuttle and Norwegian Long Haul. It seems the "international logo" actually started out as a separate version, but was updated to be the same file. Re-uploading the same file to try and address WP:NFCC#10c or WP:NFC#UUI17 issues does not seem like the best thing to do. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:02, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2017 June 23.
Marchjuly (
talk)
03:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
How is WP:NFCCP usually applied to user-created montages of non-free images such as File:Versions of the Master.png? These types of images seem to not be allowed per WP:NFG unless it is a montage created by the original copyright holder. Do we need a non-free use rationale for each individual image used in the montage? I also came across something similar with File:Trio-collage.jpg. This file's rationale provides more detail about the origin of each image used, but I'm not still quite sure if this is acceptable per WP:NFCCP since it is once again a user created montage. In addition, it also seems that in cases like these, the montage itself might be considered a WP:DERIVATIVE and thus require a separate copyright licensing in addition to the one(s) for the underlying non-free images. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WT:FFD#Relisting FFD's.
Marchjuly (
talk) 07:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC) --
Marchjuly (
talk)
07:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps it is time to establish a consensus on the meaning of "no consensus" when it comes to FFD discussions involving non-free content use. Since WP:NFCCP clearly states that non-free content use is not automatic, and WP:NFCCE clearly states that the burden is placed upon those wanting to use non-free content to provide a valid non-free use rationale, the lack of a clear consensus means that the policy is not being met. There are, however, some who feel the opposite and that the default should be to "keep" a file in such cases. This probably needs to be discussed and decided upon via a WP:RFC involving a lot of different editors for whatever is decided to actually stand the test of time. I think this is an important enough matter in that how its decided is going to have a big impact as to how enforceable the NFCCP is going be in the future. Some editors seem to be of the opinion that the NFCCP should be more interpreted like " fair use" and is too restrictive in its current form. I'm not necessarily agreeing with these people, but "no consensus" to "keep" does seem to be further moving things in that direction. If that's what the project wants, then maybe the time has come to reassess the NFCCP and adjust it accordingly. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 10:33, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
I tried searching archives for a similar question, but a lot of conversations were over 10 years old so wanted to ask for knowledgeable persons response. If I wanted to add one non-free image into a new article for a list of cast members of a reality show ( The Challenge), would the following case be acceptable for one image, with the rest of images being free-use content. The cast member has appeared on 15 of the 30 seasons, and has the most wins all time and most prize money won all time. There are several free use images being used in the draft I have, but I couldn't find a good image for him and wanted to see if using a cast photo [8] or preferably something found elsewhere would be able to be argued for fair use. Outside of MTV and The Challenge, he isn't going to have notability for his own page so the image wouldn't be used anywhere else. Any thoughts are appreciated. WikiVirus C (talk) 18:40, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
("The Real World" collided with the actual real world Tuesday when alums of the network's reality shows turned up on Capitol Hill to help Duffy, now a congressman from Wisconsin, launch the Ovarian Cancer Caucus.)
{{
cite web}}
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(
help)
WikiVirus
C
(talk)
21:10, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure why, but User:Wiki Feed Bot keeps adding non-free images to pages outside of the article namespace. I've discussing this with Fako85, the bot's creator, at User talk:Fako85#Non-free image use and thought the issue was going to be resolved. Is anyone aware of a way to set these types of bots up so that they do not add non-free content to pages? Does the problem have to do with something other than the bot? I can understand if this was a case of a non-free file shadowing a Commons file, but that does not seem to be an issue in almost all of these cases. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:16, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:VPR#NFCC #8 and Discographies. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
13:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
WP:BLPN#Robert Conroy Goldston. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
01:54, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to change references to WP:NFCC or WP:NFCCP in templates and other policy/guideline pages from "fair use" to "non-free use" or "non-free content use". Many of the non-free content templates in Category:File deletion templates seem to treat the two ideas as one and the same, which they really are not; for example, templates such as Template:Di-orphaned fair use, Template:Di-disputed fair use rationale and Template:Di-replaceable fair use should be renamed and otherwise edited for clarification. There is an important distinction that Wikipedia makes between its policy for non-free content use and what is typically understood to be fair use under US copyright law. Many editors associate fair use with the more liberal definition of US copyright law whereas Wikipedia's policy is much more restrictive. I think it might help eliminate some confusion if, at least in templates, etc., we stick to Wikipedia's chosen wording. This won't, of course, stop editors from thinking they both are the same and referring to them as such, but it at least in Wikipedia's voice the distinction will be made. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 04:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
File talk:Charmayne James and Scamper.jpg. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
21:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
The images that were originally uploaded by User talk:Wally Wiglet as the authors own work bare no resemblance whatsoever to the source images http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-lha.html from which their design concept was based on see my comments here explaining the differences File talk:Flag of the Admiralty Board.svg and here File talk:Flag of the Navy Board.svg he released them originally under Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication which was correct and true and had any body actually bothered to check both the CRW Flag's versions against the authors own designed versions using a reliable editing program like photoshop you can very clearly see they are not the same images so what was freely given for free public use that can be copied and even altered and for commercial and non commercial use has been assigned as an Non Free Image this needs looking at again and IMO reversing.-- Navops47 ( talk) 07:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
@
BU Rob13,
Masem,
Hawkeye7,
Seraphimblade,
ClemRutter,
Jo-Jo Eumerus, and
Hammersoft:
Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 67#Change "fair use" to "non-free content" has been archived apparently unresolved. While everyone who posted appears to be in favor of proposal (at least nobody directly opposed it), it's not clear as to how to best achieve it. Masem's comment about making sure that any changes to the relevant templates will not massively break anything
does seem to be something which needs to be considered. How do we proceed from here? Is an agreement on WT:NFCC considered "consensus-enough" for a change? Does more more input need to be sought at
WP:VP or somewhere else? --
Marchjuly (
talk)
22:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
It is assumed that non-free content is not allowed to be used in the template namespace per WP:NFCC#9, but I have been unable to find any direct mentions of such on any policy/guideline pages. People familiar with the NFCC probably understand that the wording of NFCC#9 by default eliminates the other namespaces, but maybe this can be clarified a bit more. Athough there is some guidance for user pages ( WP:UP#Non-free files), drafts ( WP:DRAFTS#Preparing drafts), and userboxes ( WP:UBX#Caution about image use), there is not for templates that I can find. I asked about this at Help talk:Template#Non-free image use a few months back, but got no response. So, I figure I'll ask here as well to see what other's think.
Another thing I noticed about non-free files and templates is that some templates seem to be using them "indirectly"; in other words, the non-free file is not being directly added to the template itself, but rather the file's markup is being added to the template's documentation so that it can be called up when the template is added to an article. The non-free file is defined as a page recognized by one of the template's parameters, so it does not show up as being used in the template namespace; it will, however, be indirectly added to articles via the template whenever the relevant parameter is defined accordingly. This seems to be something in my opinion which might need to be looked and since basically a non-free image can be indirectly added to multiple articles in ways where non-free use would no be acceptable and which are not provided with valid non-free use rationales. I am not sure how widespread of an issue this may be, but Template:Infobox country at games ( File:Fédération International de Natation Amateur flag.gif) and Template:Infobox road ( File:Red Coat Trail (Alberta).svg) are some examples of this which I have come across. The files in parathesis are not directly added to the template page, but they are added somewhere to the template's documentation page an show up when called by the template into articles. In some cases, like with the "Red Coat Trail" someone seems to have attempted to provide a non-free use rationale (nfur) for the use, but there are others times where no nfur is provided . Even when a nfur is provided for an parricular use, it may not be valid or there may be other uses of the same file within the same article where a rationale is lacking like it the case of Alberta Highway 4, Alberta Highway 501, Alberta Highway 61. Maybe some editors assume that if the file is OK for the template documentation, it's OK to use in an article (even multiple times).
NFCC#9 begins with "Non-free content is allowed only in articles" so maybe techinically adding non-free files to articles indirectly via templates is OK per se. However, I do think that allowing such a thing can be problematic and lead to excessive non-free use because an editor may just be copying-and-pasting templates into article and assuming that all of the images called up by the template are OK to use. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 23:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
I have been pointed out that the category Category:Publicity photographs with missing fair-use rationale recently had the nogallery tag added. It is a maintenance category and related to non-free, and from what I was told (see talk page), having images present helped to clean it up faster (identiying logos, identifying images likely all uploaded at same time belonging to one article that would all be improper non-frees, etc.) I recommend we consider this an exemption for non-free in categories to add it to Category:Wikipedia non-free content criteria exemptions and restore the allowance for galleries. -- MASEM ( t) 14:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC)