The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to Ahiv. With multiple suggested retarget options, the new disambiguation page (which is a lowercase version of this redirect) encompasses the discussed suggestions. (non-admin closure) Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 01:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• AHIV → A Haunting in Venice  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

No indication the film is known by this initialism. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 13:15, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• DELETE. I don't even know why this redirect exists; it certainly is not in use. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:09, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep harmless redirect. Redirects of films' initials is actually more common than you may think. InfiniteNexus ( talk) 23:32, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  Yes, and for things like Lord of the Rings or the various Star Wars movies, they are appropriate and in wide use. This one is neither. Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:39, 15 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete per nominator. Abbreviations of film titles, like any other Wikipedia content, need to be verified in reliable sources as opposed to just something made up in school one day; there are no Google News or Books hits using AHIV with this meaning. Most of the Google Books hits use this abbreviation to mean asymptomatic HIV (which is discussed at HIV/AIDS#Clinical latency but doesn't currently mention this particular acronym). 59.149.117.119 ( talk) 23:38, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply
  • No objection to a Retarget to HIV/AIDS#Clinical latency since sources are available to add the acronym there. Oppose disambiguation whether at AHIV or ahiv; Asymptomatic HIV and the greeting are distinguished from each other by WP:DIFFCAPS, and the film terminally fails WP:DABABBREV. 59.149.117.119 ( talk) 01:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete. I hate to break it to you Nexus, but try and search up AHIV in any engine, NONE are even related to A Haunting in Venice. Just like the IP above, we need reliable sources to make this redirect, which, at the moment, we don't have any. TheCorvetteZR1 ^{(The Garage)} 16:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  we need reliable sources to make this redirect this is false, for the record. J947 † ^edits 02:26, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Super weak retarget to Ahoy (greeting)#Ahiu, â hui, which is the only place on English Wikipedia outside of this redirect where "ahiv" is mentioned (apparently "ahiv" is an archaic cognate of "ahoy"). But deletion is also fine with me. Duckmather ( talk) 15:15, 18 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to HIV/AIDS#Clinical latency, as an abbreviation used in a few scientific papers (also sometimes aHIV, but with the first letter capitalized by default, those are the same for our purposes here). Sure, it's not mentioned, but we can add the abbreviation if a mention is helpful or necessary. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 16:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC) reply
  • I still think the all-caps or first-uncapped version is going to refer to asymptomatic HIV a lot more often than not, but a redirect to the DAB could work. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 01:16, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Disambiguate among possible meanings mentioned above, including the movie, the greeting, and the scientific abbreviation. BD2412 T 18:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to HIV/AIDS#Clinical latency per IP and Skarmory. This being an all-caps (or aHIV), consideration of other usages is weak. Jay 💬 16:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:34, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to HIV/AIDS#Clinical latency. That is a much more accurate target. scope_creep ^Talk 10:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Disambiguate at Ahiv and retarget there. I think we can squeak out a dab page here. The movie should be listed too, because while the abbreviation looks uncommon from my searches, the fact of the matter is this article is being searched up 20,000 times a day; there's going to be a wide range of search terms used. J947 † ^edits 02:26, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

   Done. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/ _{STUFF DONE} 15:15, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to the dab page at Ahiv. Thryduulf ( talk) 18:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was restore article without prejudice to AfD. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 22:07, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Injuries in netball → Netball#Netball injuries  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

No longer mentioned in target article after consensus on its talk page. The redirect text was previously merged in to the Netball page, so I'm not quite sure what should be done with the page history here (perhaps moving it to a talk subpage of the netball article?). The page was made as part of a student project by Rachm97 (see this discussion). An unmerge might be possible but as I said at the netball talk page, there doesn't seem to be much good data out there on this subject. Graham 87 04:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete. The article Netball no longer discusses injuries. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 17:00, 4 August 2023 (UTC) reply
• I have just tagged the redirect with {{ R from merge}}. As per the target talk discussion, we have injury articles for volleyball, cricket and tennis. Restore and let AfD decide if the earlier revisions should go back to being an article. All content was added by one editor (since inactive) and most cleanup was by one editor Doc James, who was also the merger. Jay 💬 07:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:30, 22 August 2023 (UTC) reply

• Restore as an article using either (a) the content before it was changed to a redirect, or (b) the content on injuries in versions of Netball before content on injuries was removed - see for example [ https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=830743544#Injuries 17:40, 16 March 2018 (UTC).-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete and oppose restoring - this is no longer mentioned here, and the linked discussion on the talk page decided that the content was unwanted - we shouldn't give it a second shot at life here. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Delete as the content is very limited and dated. The articles compared above on injuries in cricket, tennis, and volleyball are all of greatly superior quality to this. Violetine ( talk) 03:18, 23 August 2023 (UTC) reply

The "limited and dated" argument is essentially circular. It happened because the content was condensed to fit into the article on Netball. Compare it to the much larger article that existed before then. There was no point in members trying to update it over time, because that would have be WP:UNDUE in the article on Netball. But if it had stayed as an independent article, it would have been practical to update it from time to time.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC) reply

• Restore from the old version predating the merge into "Netball" that Toddy dug up, and then let editors naturally update it to a modern perspective (inasmuch as that's any different). Bernanke's Crossbow ( talk) 06:54, 26 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed, Rosguill ^talk 01:56, 7 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or restore?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Restore per toddy and Bernanke's Crossbow. - Darker Dreams ( talk) 11:12, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Restore - per above. - jc37 20:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Restore per above. This content was UNDUE on the main article, but would not necessarily be as a standalone article. This should be without prejudice to AfD, but I would strongly encourage allowing time for the unmerged article to be updated before such a nomination. Thryduulf ( talk) 17:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to Home Away from Home since that target is a reasonable dab page. (non-admin closure) Duckmather ( talk) 22:23, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Home away from home → Home  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Doubt this redirect pointing to Home helps anyone; if you're searching this term, you're going to want something more specific than just the article on homes. Searching within Wikipedia pulls up some potential targets, but most seem to use different capitalization (there's a few creative works titled Home Away from Home); a DAB page may be an option, though none of these works titled Home Away from Home have their own article. wikt:home away from home also exists, and might be a potential target, or it can be included on a DAB. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:09, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Weak disambiguate. J947 † ^edits 02:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Dab Reasonable search term, no clear primary target. Links can target article sections, wiktionary link can be included. - Darker Dreams ( talk) 04:51, 26 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• I would say make the dab at Home Away from Home if that's chosen. I can make one soon, hopefully by tomorrow. Retarget there once it's created – seems like the best option for now. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 03:25, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  Preliminary DAB created. I think more can be added, but now that it's nearing 7 days, I just wanted to get a start out there. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 17:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep. The keeping is made without prejudice, and sections of this list may be reassessed on a smaller-scale basis. (non-admin closure) Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 01:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Air-fuel meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 
• Air fuel meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel ratio meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air fuel ratio meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel ratio gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air fuel ratio gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air fuel gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Afr gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel ratio monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air fuel ratio monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air fuel monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Afr monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel ratio meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel ratio gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel ratio monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air/fuel monitors → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-meter → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-ratio-meter → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-gauge → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-ratio-gauge → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-ratio-meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Air-fuel-ratio-gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Af-ratio-meter → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Af-ratio-meters → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Af-ratio-gauge → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Af-ratio-gauges → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Airfuelmeter → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]
• Airfuelratiometer → Air–fuel ratio meter  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ]

Unlikely search terms. Plurals, strange punctuation, or missing spaces where the normal or singular form already exists as a redirect.. Lithopsian ( talk) 13:09, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

It might be worth pointing out that there are already more redirects than you can shake a stick at for this topic (note that this query will probably only show you the ones not listed here as long as they are tagged). Nobody is in any danger of not finding at and the ones I listed here are just redundant. Lithopsian ( talk) 13:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Keep most/Trainwreck. I agree the last two are almost definitely implausible, and the ones ending with a hyphenation like "-meter" or "-gauge" and similar are likely to be so as well; however, most of these (particularly the bunch until "Afr monitors") in fact looks quite helpful to me. (I don't see how "plurals" is reason for deletion.) 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 16:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete all - all 34 of these titles were created at the same time in late 2006, and in the past 30 days the combined total pageviews for all 34 titles is zero. All of these titles impede finding information on related topics, of which there are several: the target only discusses air-fuel gauges in automobiles (and the target is proposed for merging with oxygen sensor anyway), while several other pages have relevant information such as Air–fuel ratio, Mass flow sensor, Exhaust gas temperature gauge, and aircraft engine controls. Search results would be better here. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 17:34, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep as harmless, these redirects unambiguously take anyone who uses them where they want to go. For plurals there is {{ R from plural}}, for punctuation differences there is {{ R from other punctuation}}. I agree that the last two with the missing spaces can go, but they have existed since 2006 without issue. -- Tavix ^{( talk)} 17:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep Air-fuel ratio meters and Air fuel ratio meters – the only differences on these are plural status and use/lack of use of hyphens and en-dashes. They're perfectly plausible search terms. No comment on the rest. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep as outlined above, all harmless and plausable search terms/typos that correctly direct searcher to intended topic. - Darker Dreams ( talk) 11:18, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Trainwreck without prejudice, and so keep by default. They all seem to look okay at a first glance, but one of the potential issues with a mass-nomination such as this is that it’s not always possible to give the redirects anything other than a glance or two. This means that, if there are less-obvious issues with any of them, they’ll be potentially much less clear. Best, ^user:A smart kitten _meow 14:52, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep all as apparently plausible, harmless and useful redirects. This is without prejudice to renomination individually or in small groups if any have specific problems not immediately apparent. Thryduulf ( talk) 18:07, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Wikimedians of Colorado User Group → Wikipedia:Meetup/Colorado  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Cross-namespace redirect Fram ( talk) 12:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete per nom and because non-wikipedians are unlikely to be interested in this internal thing anyways. Duckmather ( talk) 13:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete, potentially confusing WP:XNR, and unlikely at best. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 16:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete - if the Wikimedians of Colorado User Group is a notable entity then this should be an article about it, with references to reliable sources. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 17:36, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• REDIRECT: This redirect should go to meta:Wikimedians of Colorado User Group. This is frequently used in internal user communications.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 07:52, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  The main namespace should not be used for shortcuts in internal user communications. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 12:33, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete: WP:XNR. Soft redirecting to Meta-Wiki would be even worse. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/ _{STUFF DONE} 15:17, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per all above and Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 12#Mainspace redirects to meetups and editathons, although those were for specific events rather than a user group generally. Thryduulf ( talk) 18:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Soft redirect to meta:Wikimedians of Colorado User Group per "where else would the reader finding their way to this redirect want to go?" J947 † ^edits 05:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per WP:PANDORA and the fairly similar Jan 2022 RFD. I don't think this is beneficial, especially when it populates search results for "Wikimedian". Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was speedy delete ( G7). (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/ _{STUFF DONE} 18:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• List of most popular Colorado-related Wikipedia articles → Wikipedia:WikiProject Colorado/Popular pages  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Recent cross-namespace redirect used to include this "page" in the List of Colorado-related lists Fram ( talk) 12:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete per WP:NAVELGAZING and WP:XNR. No indication that "most popular Colorado-related Wikipedia articles" is a notable topic for an encyclopedia, and if it was then this should be an article with reliable sources indicating which are the most popular and the metric used to make that determination, not a redirect to internally-generated project cruft. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 12:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete, potentially confusing WP:XNR, and unlikely at best. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 16:57, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete: No longer in use.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 07:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Can someone else please explain to User:Buaidh that this is totally unacceptable? Fram ( talk) 07:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

I must really be stupid.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 07:54, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Speedy delete: since the creator !voted delete. I've tagged for G7. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/ _{STUFF DONE} 15:24, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Archive debates/June index → Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Archive debates/2007 June index  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Looks like a historical R from move - the target page was only at this title for a few minutes it seems. I propose that this redirect be deleted due to being ambiguous with other CfD June discussion indexes. As far as I can see, this title has no wikilinks. Best, ^user:A smart kitten _meow 11:42, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Delete; this would probably have been a case for G6 back at the time of its creation. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 16:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Speedy delete per WP:G6, this was unambiguously created in error. -- Tavix ^{( talk)} 17:58, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep. No case has been made that these redirects are harmful. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:23, 3 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• Draft:Semiabelian group → Semiabelian group (Galois theory)  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

• Draft:Semiabelian groups → Semiabelian group (Galois theory)  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Created by mistake. Redirect from draft to mainspace. scope_creep ^Talk 08:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Note: I've combined the two virtually identical nominations. I don't have a strong opinion on the redirects. Dsuke1998AEOS ( talk) 16:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• From what I can tell of the page history, there was an article initially created as a draft at Draft:Semiabelian groups, then moved to Draft:Semiabelian group, then to Draft:Semiabelian group (Galois theory), then to Semiabelian group (Galois theory), then finally to Semiabelian group (note that I made the last page move because the disambiguator seemed unnecessary). Anyways, keep both per WP:RDRAFT. Duckmather ( talk) 18:42, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• For what it's worth, both nominated redirects are double-redirects in their current forms, and should be fixed to avoid the double-redirect behavior. That being said, these also appear to be published AfC drafts that have the exact same name as the parent article (of Semiabelian group). In my opinion, this should have just been boldly retargeted rather than going to RfD, because if nobody retargeted them, a bot was going to go through and fix the double-redirect for us. In any situation, I think both should be kept and not deleted, but it need to be ensured that the redirects are retargeted to Semiabelian group rather than Semiabelian group (Galois theory), as the latter appears to be a redirect to the former. Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 19:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Followup comment It seems as if User:Duckmather moved the page while the RfD was currently ongoing. Admittedly they did mention the fact that they moved it in their keep rationale, but I did not notice that and it meant that a double redirect was created. As mentioned at the top of the WP:RfD page, it is highly discouraged to do this because it creates confusion for participants and makes it harder for the closing admins to read.

Momentarily disregarding this fact, re @ Scope creep:, what is your RfD rationale for this nomination? A redirect going from draft to mainspace is not a reason to delete, nor are mistakes necessarily. Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 19:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

I had a conversation with @ SilverMatsu: this morning, who seemed to think they weren't necessary, perhaps because the articles will never be created? I'll let the editor continue. Hopefully he can explain in more detail. scope_creep ^Talk 20:24, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Comment The reason why I suggested delete the redirect is R#D10. I am suggesting to delete the Draft:Semiabelian group, not the Semiabelian group. I think Draft:Semiabelian group is the good place to create a draft, when someone finds a notion called Semiabelian group, which is different from Semiabelian variety (scheme) and Semiabelian group (Galois theory) and who wants to start a draft. Furthermore, I think that the title "Semiabelian group" is too ambiguous. This is because that article was 1 past decline with the comment Submission is about a topic not yet shown to meet general notability guidelines. I suspect the reviewer was unable to find the reference because the title was too ambiguous. Also, regarding "Semiabelian group (Redirect)", I think it is better to change the redirect to a Dab, and I don't think it's necessary to create a draft when creating a Dab. -- SilverMatsu ( talk) 02:39, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Silvermatsu: What do you say about Draft:Semiabelian groups? scope_creep ^Talk 11:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

If Draft:Semiabelian groups is a redirect to the main space, I think it will confuse AfC reviewers when someone creates a new draft, so I also suggest delete the Draft:Semiabelian groups. -- SilverMatsu ( talk) 12:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Keep Perfectly standard WP:RDRAFT, no evidence these were erroneously created. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• @ Silvermatsu: What do you propose - Do you want to undo the move made by Duckmather, and create a Dab at Semiabelian group instead? If so, keep the drafts until this re-organization is done, and if no work on this is required to be done in draftspace. Jay 💬 07:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Yes, that's what I want. But if Dab pages are not needed, I will withdraw this proposal, so I think we should first discuss whether we need a Dab page or not. I believe a Dab page is needed. For example, the top in search result on Google Scholar is a paper on "Semiabelian group schemes". See https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Semiabelian+group%22. SilverMatsu ( talk) 03:58, 2 October 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was Delete * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Moom → Moon  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

WP:XY typo; could also be a typo of Mom. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:34, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete per nomination. – CopperyMarrow15 ( talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 11:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 12:21, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom. Moom is an act signed to Delerium Records, but probably not notable nor enough content on them there for a redirect. Certes ( talk) 13:04, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per moom. WHERE ARE THE BERRIES?? Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 18:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom. OLIfanofmrtennant (she/her) Questions? 04:25, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Comments - Part of me would really like to see this redirected to Krazy Kat, due to its common usage in that comic strip : ) - jc37 20:42, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  Re-reading the above. I wonder if this is a possibility for a dab page. For an example, see the title of the Krazy Kat book: A Brick Stuffed with Moom-bins (moon beams) - jc37 20:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• There used to be an article about a British rock band at the title which was PRODed in 2013. It had a hatnote to Icelandic band Múm (Icelandic pronunciation: [muːm]). The Icelandic band has other redirects Mùm and M'um. Jay 💬 21:19, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  Probably the band mentioned in Delerium Records, which I unlinked. Certes ( talk) 21:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 01:26, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Satellite Luna → Moon  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

• Terran Moon Luna → Moon  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

• Luna (satellite) → Moon  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

• Terran Satellite Luna → Moon  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Not seeing any relevant results for this term relating to the Moon on a very quick surface level search. It's also somewhat ambiguous with Luna 10, and possibly more in Luna programme. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

In English, there is no ambiguity between "Satellite Luna" (a natural satellite of Terra) versus "Luna satellite" (a satellite of the Luna Program) or "Luna satellite" (an artificial or natural satellite of Satellite Luna). The typecase is different when referring to a vessel and a specific satellite would be referred to as "Satellite Luna 10", "satellite Luna 10", or "Luna 10 satellite". Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Do we expect the casual reader to be more likely to search up "Satellite Luna" looking for a satellite named Luna, or the moon of Earth which has the much more likely search term of just "Moon"? They may have forgotten the number of the human-made satellite. I just don't see how redirecting this unlikely search term to Moon is more helpful for readers who likely aren't intimately familiar with more scientific terms about moons and Earth's moon. If these were Natural Satellite Luna or Luna (natural satellite), I don't think there would be an issue (hence why the latter wasn't nominated); I'm also pretty neutral about the ones starting with Terran, as they're unambiguous, even if they're unlikely search terms. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

See my comment below regarding conflations between satellite names. When I am searching Wikipedia for a satellite, I always search for the name "Satellite X" because many satellite names will link to unrelated pages due to conflations with mythological beings or other astronomical bodies (e.g. "Minor Planet Europa" versus "Satellite Europa"). When I search for a page, I want to always and consistently arrive on the correct desired result the first time. Naming and searching for all satellites as "Satellite X" is the only way to do this. The "casual reader" who is aware that there exists more than one moon and that there exists more than one Luna is not going to search for either "moon" ("Moon") or "Luna" and will instead search for a term that they think will give them the correct result, such as "Earth's Moon" or "Satellite Luna". Nicole Sharp ( talk) 04:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Probably not relevant here, but it should also be pointed out that Terra sometimes has more than one moon (natural satellite), though additional natural satellites of Terra are typically only for very short periods of time as temporarily captured quasisatellites in unstable orbits, so "Earth's moon" and "Earth's Moon" are not synonymous. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 05:23, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Assuming that the "casual reader" has at least a high-school understanding of science, they should be aware that the Solar System has many moons so they are unlikely to search for "moon" ("Moon") when they are really searching for Satellite Luna (the moon Luna) instead. The name "Luna" is commonly known in English through familiar terms such as "Lunar eclipse" and the idea that moons are satellites should be covered with a grade-school science education. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 04:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

I don't know Wikipedia's policies on allowing misspellings for redirects, but the idea that a correctly spelled redirect name could be mistaken for a misspelled name seems like it could apply to a large number of redirects (is "USA" a misspelling of "USO"?). The best policy in either case should be to keep the redirect to the most relevant page, or to a disambiguation page, and not to delete the redirect because it could be confused with a misspelling of another less relevant term. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 04:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Leaning keep, unambiguous and not excessively unlikely search terms. Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:25, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Skarmory's nomination above applies to Satellite Luna. I added Terran Moon Luna later, but it has a similar case. Certes ( talk) 11:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

"Terran Moon Luna" should preferably be written as "Terran moon Luna", "moon Luna", "Terran Moon", or "Terran moon" but I would consider this an acceptable alternative spelling. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Moon § Names and etymology mentions the occasional scientific use of the name Luna to distinguish from other moons, as well as sci-fi and poetic use. There are also plenty of discussions as to the importance of the name in the talk page archives. That said, I don't see these specific redirects being plausible search or link terms, and would support deleting both. Rosbif73 ( talk) 12:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

"Luna" and "Terra" are the scientific names for "Moon" and "Earth" since classical astronomical objects in the Solar System have Latinate names.  Which names should be used is hotly debated (for example, NASA publications often say "Moon" instead of "Luna") but the common usage of both names is well-established. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Agree with User:Rosbif73. The idea that someone would search for either of these when trying to find the very obvious Moon is highly implausible. - Special-T ( talk) 14:27, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Comment: I bundled Luna (satellite) and Terran Satellite Luna with this nom, as they run into the same issues as Satellite Luna and Terran Moon Luna respectively. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 16:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

All satellites (e.g. "Luna" or "Europa") need a redirect page with name "Satellite X" (e.g. "Satellite Luna" or "Satellite Europa") because there exists a conflation between Satellite Europa and Minor Planet Europa.  Otherwise links to pages for satellites will not be consistently named. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

We usually disambiguate by qualifier, e.g. Europa (moon) vs. Europa (minor planet). Is there a minor planet Luna? The one named after a person called Luna is called 336465 Deluna, probably to avoid confusion with Earth's moon. Certes ( talk) 18:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

I very much dislike page names that have parentheses and whenever possible I always create redirects without parentheses whenever I see a page name that has parentheses. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 05:02, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

— I don't think there are any IAU rules against someone discovering a new minor planet of the Inner Solar System and naming it "Luna" (there already exist a few conflations between satellites and minor planets, notably "Europa"). But if the minor planet also happens to be an Earth-crossing asteroid or a Terran quasisatellite then it could conceivably be captured into Terran orbit, in which case there would be two Satellite Lunas, though likely only for a very brief time. But this would be very confusing and I am guessing the IAU might make a new rule to prevent that from happening. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 05:48, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Consistency concerns do not apply to redirects, so the argument about Satellite X redirects is basically just WP:OTHERSTUFF. Rosbif73 ( talk) 19:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

All of these redirects should be kept as they are acceptable alternative spellings, regardless of actual usage. Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:24, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Keep all as they all unambiguously refer to Earth's moon. Mdewman6 ( talk) 17:48, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep clearly not looking hard enough if you can't find the Moon referred to as Luna, and that all moons are considered satellites. -- 67.70.25.175 ( talk) 06:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep per above. - jc37 20:42, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was keep. Jay 💬 07:32, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• PTV/SWS World Tour → List of Pierce the Veil concert tours  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

BLAR'd 6 months ago by Onel5969 because it fails WP:NTOUR, now another co-headlining concert tour redirect is questioned due to alleged concerns with WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:XY. Maybe it could be deleted or restore and send to AFD and end it into an deletion like the same outcome as Maroon 5 and Counting Crows and the Royalty Tour AFDs. Tagging Onel5969 to speak his opinion about the co-headlining tour being BLAR'd 6 months ago. 2600:1700:9BF3:220:F5FA:A7D7:9AA4:E005 ( talk) 05:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Keep: There is no article that lists Sleeping with Sirens concert tours. Why not link to this one, since it is the only relevant article? Notsammyray ( talk) 03:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Keep The target is currently the only place this tour is mentioned. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:26, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was delete. Jay 💬 07:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Joe (president) → Joe Biden  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Previously RfD'd but trainwrecked without discussion of that entry. Biden is surely the most notable Joe to be a president, but he isn't the only one. Joe Shirley Jr. was the longest-serving president of the Navajo Nation, a sovereign entity with 165,000 citizens; unlike Biden, his first name actually is just Joe. Several Josephs, some of whom may be known as Joe, have been presidents as well: Kasa-Vubu and Kabila (Congo); Estrada (Phillipines); Jenkins Roberts and James Cheeseman (Liberia); Urusemal (Micronesia); Lamothe, Davilmar Théodore, and Nemours Pierre-Louis (Haiti); Saidu Momoh (Sierra Leone); Lagu and James Tombura (Southern Sudan); and Allison (Orange Free State). Given Biden's primacy, this redirect might be reasonable if he were frequently referred to mononymously, but he is not, so this should be deleted. -- Tamzin^{[ cetacean needed} (she|they|xe) 04:27, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Comment I'm open to suggestions but don't understand why anyone would search for this. Alextejthompson (Ping me or leave a message on my talk page) 16:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete: implausible search term. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 17:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete - this is useless Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 20:04, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• This could be interesting as a series of articles organizing current and former heads of states by their first names but I think notable people with a particular first name are already listed on the Wikipedia pages for first names so this might not be necessary. I agree that the current redirect is inappropriate since there are many presidents named "Joe". Nicole Sharp ( talk) 17:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete whilst it may be a search time (I doubt it), is he the only possible hit? Slatersteven ( talk) 12:11, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  @ Slatersteven: based on searching Wikipedia for "president" in articles with "Joe" in the title, it's very clear that Joe Biden is by far the primary topic for that set. Joe Shirley Jr was president of the Navajo Nation, Joe Cronin was president of the American League (a baseball league), Joe Phaahla was president of the Azanian Students' Organisation, Joe J. Christensen was president of Ricks College and Joe McDonagh was president of the Gaelic Athletic Association (I had to exclude Biden from the search results to even find any of these). A google search for "President Joe" returns only results related to Biden down to at least the third page, searching Wikipedia for "president Joe" -Biden also turned up Joseph Carr who was president of the NFL. As far as I can tell, he is the first person name Joe to be president of a country. Thryduulf ( talk) 17:48, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Delete very implausible target when there are many prominent Joes, and we shouldn't presume this is always the one people talk about. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 00:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Delete too ambiguous, ambiguous. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:24, 25 September 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Taytay. (non-admin closure) Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 01:25, 29 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• TayTay → Taylor Swift  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Not sure if this is necessary.. it's like redirecting "Madge" to Madonna or "Barbz" to Nicki Minaj. This is more of a popular culture thing and the mainstream media commonly refers to Taylor Swift as "Taylor" and not "TayTay"... Ippantekina ( talk) 04:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Madge has a dab entry for Madonna – a much greater bar than that for a redirect – and Barbz redirects to a list of nicknames on which Minaj is listed. J947 † ^edits 04:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

  I acknowledge that. Actually Taytay also has a dab entry for Taylor Swift as well. I'm not sure if the capitalized second T in "TayTay" guarantees a proper redirect such as this. Ippantekina ( talk) 04:58, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to Taytay unless RS are shown to use it in this way. — siro χ o 06:36, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to Taytay per above. The nickname is definitely in use, but its coverage does not warrant a WP:DIFFCAPS situation. – CopperyMarrow15 ( talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 11:24, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to Taytay per Siroxo. The dab entry at Taytay should be enough and there don't seem to be incoming links of concern. 〜 Askarion ✉ 19:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to Taytay per above. ^user:A smart kitten _meow 16:19, 22 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to Taytay when this doesn't get used for the singer nearly as often as simply "Taylor", and the capitalization difference isn't prominent here. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 00:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Keep as creator: Here's two sources that refer to her as "TayTay": [1] [2]. Nothing else is known as TayTay capitalized that way, and there's already a hatnote, so no reason to retarget. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/ _{STUFF DONE} 15:03, 23 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Comment. See Talk:Taylor Swift/Archive 11#TayTay. Frustrated that my attempt to put "TayTay" in the article was reverted, I walked away. But strictly speaking, Taylor Swift should not appear as an entry at Taytay. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 18:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Lumpen. Jay 💬 07:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Lumpenism → wiktionary:Special:Search/lumpenism  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

Per WP:SSRT, most words shouldn't get a redirect to Wiktionary. This one is in my view particularly unhelpful, it leaves one with just as much questions and as little information as before reading the entry. I redirected it to Lumpenproletariat instead, but was reverted. Fram ( talk) 09:33, 12 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to Lumpen, a disambiguation page which also includes a Wiktionary link. The combination of German lumpen with the English suffix -ism is a bit nonsensical, and Wiktionary is not a reliable source besides not actually being helpful here. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 16:44, 12 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• The term definitely exists; I don't really know what to do with the redirect, though. Lumpen may be the best option, but there's only maybe one or two potential targets on that page, and even then I'm not sure they're great, but it does at least have the wiktionary link. Lumpenproletariat might be an okay target as well, but I don't really know what lumpenism is intended to mean, so I can't say for sure; it is listed on the DAB, though. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:17, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For further input on the retarget suggestion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to the dab page, as that seems to be the most helpful thing we can do here. Thryduulf ( talk) 17:33, 27 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to Lumpen per above – seems the simplest option with the least potential for harm. J947 † ^edits 05:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

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The result of the discussion was retarget to 16S ribosomal RNA. Consensus has determined that the prokaryotic RNA is the primary topic among the titles referring to genes. With only one other option for a target (the mitochondrial RNA), a hatnote has been added to distinguish the two RNAs at the conclusion of the associated RM. (non-admin closure) Utopes _{( talk / cont)} 19:06, 3 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• 16s gene → Ribosomal RNA  ( talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  keep/ retarget/ delete ] 

It seems that this should be pointing at 16S ribosomal RNA (and 16S gene, 16S rRNA gene redirects to the same target should be created accordingly). 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 01:00, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to 16S ribosomal RNA and create others per nom. Mdewman6 ( talk) 18:25, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to 16S, which is a disambiguation page. Note that "16S" can also refer to MT-RNR2 which is mitochondrial RNA (as opposed to 16S ribosomal RNA, which is prokaryotic RNA). Duckmather ( talk) 15:29, 18 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Retarget to 16S per Duckmather. InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk | contribs) 06:53, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Retarget to 16S? Or to 16S ribosomal RNA?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:46, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Retarget to 16S. Sources used in MT-RNR2 include the phrasing "16S rRNA gene", which seems close enough to this redirect title to prefer disambiguation here and for the new redirects proposed in the nom. — siro χ o 06:43, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Comment There is a directly related discussion occurring at Talk:16S_rRNA#Requested_move_14_September_2023. If the current dab page at 16S rRNA is kept as is, and the consensus here is for this to target a disambiguation page, it should be retargeted there. But as I argued in the RM, the prokaryotic gene is in my mind the clear primary topic (if it isn't, we may need to consider the article titles of two gene topics) and we just need a hatnote to the mitochondiral version. Mdewman6 ( talk) 18:37, 21 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Agree with Mdewman6 that the 16S rRNA set index is a better target than 16S. The RM discussion has not seen progress since the last two weeks. Jay 💬 08:25, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply
• Support the proposed retarget to 16S ribosomal RNA. A hatnote should be added to that article referring the the 16S mitochondrial rRNA which satisfies any needed disambiguation. Other forms of 16S rRNA are linked in the template at the end of the article (though they do not seem to have any articles associated with them). ― Syn path 21:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).