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Category:Fictional characters who awoke from a coma
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Nominator's rationale: This would seem to fail
WP:NONDEF. Unlike in real life, waking from a coma is a common plot device in fiction. It may or may not result in any effects to the person who was in the coma. If it did cause any defining negative effects, the character would probably belong in the "disabilities" category instead.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 23:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Cursory browse of the articles seems to confirm that most of these characters are not defined by the effects of their coma. ― novov(tc) 02:23, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Seems akin to
WP:PERFCAT, albeit for fictional characters. Likely a plot device that is never mentioned again. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:53, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose/keep – I understand the rationale, but comas are regularly discussed and reported about in reliable independent sources, such as in the following sourcs:
[1],
[2],
[3],
[4] and
[5]. Additionally, I disagree that these are non defining – the comas really affect the development of the character, which is also affects the plot, the characterisation, the casting and because of it the reception. Additionally, whilst the comas do not often affect the characters greatly physically, they often do mentally; for example,
Nina Reeves was in a coma for 20+ years in her universe and this greatly changed the characterisation of the character, and also created many storylines, such as the introduction of her children and finding out who tried to kill her. Another example is
Marlena Evans; her coma was used to explain the actress' 4 year gap from the soap, and was then used to create further storylines (source:
[6]). The actress was actually unhappy about the character being put into a coma due to thinking that it was stupid. Overall, it is not non-defining as it really affects the character both through in universe and real world perspective.
DaniloDaysOfOurLives (
talk) 01:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The character waking from a coma affects the plot of the show, but the character themselves is not affected by it. (If they were, there'd be better categories for it, such as
Category:Fictional characters with mental disorders). To be defining, something has to have a non-transitory effect on a character.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 12:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sex workers by cause of death
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now, as there's only one category in here. (And yes, I know that I also made the category...)
Mason (
talk) 21:58, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. As the creator, you could also manually merge the sub-category and request deletion via
WP:G7. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 22:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I wasn't sure if it qualified for g7, because another editor has made changes to the category
[7].
Mason (
talk) 00:57, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
It doesn't look like their edit was substantial, so might pass. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 04:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Syriac-language writers by century
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Nominator's rationale: I don't think that the intersection of language and gender and occupation is defining. (Single merge because all three women are also in the irish women singers categories)
Mason (
talk) 20:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge The intersection does not seem defining. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Irish-language singers by century
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to isolate two underpopulated categories. It's unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 20:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge Doesn't aid navigation with the current articles. If this topic are grows substantially, we can revisit. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Beechcraft Baron
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Nominator's rationale: The subject aircraft carries less than 10 passengers and is primarily used in
general aviation, not airline service. Crashes of this aircraft are generally non-prominent per
WP:AIRCRASH and
WP:ROTM, and the few notable exceptions can be adequately covered in the article about the aircraft type or articles about Wikinotable victims. The category has never received more than 10 daily pageviews.
Carguychris (
talk) 18:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle: most light aircraft types don't have their own categories. The aircraft article itself is typically considered adequate to encapsulate any notable accidents or other relevant information.
Carguychris (
talk) 00:49, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Cessna 206
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Nominator's rationale: The subject aircraft carries less than 10 passengers and is primarily used in
general aviation, not airline service. Crashes of this aircraft are generally non-prominent per
WP:AIRCRASH and
WP:ROTM, and the few notable crashes can be adequately covered in the article about the aircraft type or articles about any Wikinotable victims.
Carguychris (
talk) 18:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge for now to
Category:Cessna aircraft, as there is only one article in the category. No objection to recreate the category when more articles are available.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Religious universities and colleges by country
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Nominator's rationale: Currently, the name of this category scheme forces it to be a container category for "Christian universities and colleges in ...", "Islamic universities and colleges in ...", etc. Renaming allows this category to be de-containerized and articles can begin populating these categories where either a small sub-cat would have to be created or the article would be missing from the tree entirely. This rename would align the naming convention with the sub-categories in
Category:Religious schools by country. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 18:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anarchists from Austria-Hungary
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The result of the discussion was:Merge and rename, no consensus to delete, without prejudice against a new CfD focusing solely on deletion.
* Pppery *it has begun... 20:39, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category. "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" has been the default category for three years, this new category was created seemingly without awareness of the existence of the other. No reason for them to remain separated.
Grnrchst (
talk) 10:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge but the other way around - i.e. merge "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" to "Anarchists from Austria-Hungary" - since the parent category is
Category:People from Austria-Hungary. It is likely also why the creator was not aware of its existance since all the category names are formatted the same way except for "Austro-Hungarian anarchists".
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 12:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge and rename as above comment. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" seems less useful as a category (are there many people in this category who are more commonly described as "Austro-Hungarian" than "Austrian" or "Hungarian"?). --
asilvering (
talk) 07:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Asilvering: Honestly, I doubt the usefulness of the category entirely. Each of the entries in either category could just as easily be fit under
Category:Austrian anarchists or
Category:Czech anarchists. In fact, most of them already are. But deletion is a separate discussion. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst agreed, though I suppose I don't really see the harm if those entries are in Austrian and Czech and so on as well. This isn't a problem just with this category; there's some really bizarre stuff going on with "... from the Russian Empire" too. I assume they were all created at some point when things changed from "American people" to "people from the United States" basically across the board. I'd just as soon see this and similar categories deleted. --
asilvering (
talk) 20:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per above. Both are redundant to existing categories. czar 15:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strongly oppose deletion. They were in fact citizens of Austria-Hungary. Austrian and Czech are anachronisms, or ethnicities at best.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose deletion for the same reason. Being an anarachist in Austria Hungary specifically is what makes these people defining.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
It isn't defining in any meaningful way. Two of them (Kácha and Landová-Štychová) were in self-defined Czech organisations before and after the fall of Austria-Hungary, and the other two (Peukert and Havel) spent most of their lives outside of Austria-Hungary in London and the United States, where they did most of their notable work. Nothing in their biographies gives the impression that "being an anarchist in Austria-Hungary specifically" was a defining characteristic. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Josef Peukert wasn't even of Czech ethnicity. If they were active as anarchists in other countries than Austria-Hungary then they should be categorized by that country.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I never said Peukert was of Czech ethnicity... --
Grnrchst (
talk) 19:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle: It is utterly appallingly inaccurate to claim the demonym of "Czech" is an anachronism.
Luisa Landová-Štychová and
Michael Kácha were both members of specifically (and self-defined) Czech anarchist and socialist organisations when the Austria-Hungary existed, and continued to be active in Czech organisations after the formation of Czechoslovakia. Explain to me how "Czech" can possibly be an anachronism when they literally described themselves as such?
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:32, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst, I think you're taking this a bit too personally. The point is that there is no point in deleting the categories because they were citizens of Austria-Hungary which had a diverse group of people within it with many identities.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 18:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge as clearly redundant. If there's a broader issue with how we categorize ethnicities from this empire, we can sort that out in a larger nom. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 12:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. Clarifying my !vote above. I don't think that the arguments of Marcocappelle and Omnis Scientia make any sense from a historical perspective, and I'm really shocked by the assertion that "Czech" is an anachronism. --
asilvering (
talk) 02:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Austria-Hungary was a proper country until 1918 so I am unsure what you mean when you say that the arguments do not make sense from a historical perspective.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:25, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Not sure what you mean here. Austria-Hungary was a real country and people living there were Austro-Hungarian. Hence anarachists living there are also Austro-Hungarian.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters without a name
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Nominator's rationale: Vague category that probably falls under
WP:TRIVIALCAT. For example, The Outsider from Dishonored is more known for the fact that he's a godlike supernatural being, than the fact that he has no name.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:36, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom, vague and non-defining, and I could imagine pointless edit wars breaking out over whether a certain character is truly nameless.
Carguychris (
talk) 01:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. It is an unremarkable characteristic for a secondary fictional character.
brides of Dracula is an example.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Social groups
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Nominator's rationale: merge, "ethnic groups" and "social groups" are overlapping concepts.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Please provide a more detailed rationale. The Russia category, for example, includes Russian serfs, kulaks, new Russians, podkulachnik, and Russian oligarch which are categorically not ethnic groups. The only solutions I see are to either create a new, broader umbrella category with an encompassing name, or keep the status quo, perhaps with some articles in both categories. —MichaelZ. 15:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include a common nation of origin, or common sets of ancestry, traditions, language, history, society, religion, or social treatment. Probably with the exception of oligarchs and podkulachnik these groups fit the definition.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:45, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
No, the others are external descriptions imposed on people.
Russian serfs were people of any ethnicity, and no more an ethnic group than slaves, including slaves in Russia.
Kulak was supposedly an economic class early on, but it and
podkulachnik (“kulak henchman”) became slurs used to dehumanize Ukrainians during the Holodomor genocide.
Oppose; not all of these are ethnic groups so it is best to keep them seperate.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 09:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Turkoman tribes
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CommentMerge, but one concern I have is that there are also the
22/24 Oghuz tribes mentioned in medieval works.
Category:Oghuz tribes currently contains those tribes, while those that were excluded from that traditional division and appeared later in history are part of
Category:Turkoman tribes. I believe after the merge a new sub-category should be created to encapsulate those 22/24 tribes. I agree that per
Turkoman (ethnonym), the names of these categories refer to the same topic.
Aintabli (
talk) 02:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
As the article describes it, the list of 22/24 is not a definitive classification, it is rather a grey area.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:53, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
It is a historical classification, not something that can be "definitive". They are separate from tribes such as "Rumlu", "Shamlu", etc. which appeared much later.
On a different note, "Turkoman" (or "Turkmen," "Turkman", etc.) is a term that dates back to the medieval ages but is certainly not something "outdated," because modern sources use it very frequently,
even more than "Oghuz". If the merge proposal is solely based on that assumption, I would not exactly support it. I am kind of unsure now and have struck my vote. I agree that the distinction between "Turkoman tribes" and "Oghuz tribes" is unclear, because the first refers to the latter, but "Turkoman" is very common (even more, if we take other forms into account) and per sources, could be more appropriate to categorize some tribes as.
Aintabli (
talk) 21:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom, due to the terms being overlapping. If there is an official or semi-official classification with a fixed list, then that belongs in a list article, as a category cannot be expected to have constant content over time and technicalities of category inclusion are inefficient in regards to sourcing, as opposed to a list. See guideline
WP:Categories, lists, and navigation templates.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:New Zealand translators by century
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one century in here, which is unhelpful for navigation.
Mason (
talk) 17:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
If you're going to do that, please populate the categories. Having a single page in the category is not helpful.
Mason (
talk) 17:32, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:19, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
When there are only two categories, the intermediate category layer is still not meaningful. So still merge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
So make more! Now they each have three. Keep all. –
FayenaticLondon 12:32, 11 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep per Fayenatic london. HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 02:09, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anthropomorphic carnivorans
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Nominator's rationale: Same deal, different category. Using such a specifically scientific term for fictional characters is random and unnecessary.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 03:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. No need to diffuse by scientific terms.
Mason (
talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose It's not random or unnecessary, but great for difusion.
★Trekker (
talk) 12:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose Neither random, nor unnecessary.
Dimadick (
talk) 06:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose for the same reasons.
AHI-3000 (
talk) 09:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories each. Merging will allow easier navigation between the subcategories lower in the tree, e.g. between antropomorphic bears and cats.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge I don't think adding the tree of life scientific terminology is likely to aid navigation for readers interested in non-biological fictional topics. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 04:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Support or oppose Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Toadette(
Merry Christmas, and a happy new year) 12:53, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Question: Can one of the opposers (@
StarTrekker@
AHI-3000@
Dimadick) explain how this distinction is helpful and meaningful. Because I am not understanding why we'd need to diffuse this way. I don't see how this isn't random, and I don't see why this is even needed.
Mason (
talk) 03:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
ReplyCarnivora includes most of the predatory mammals, including the felids, the hyenas, the canines, the bears, the raccoons, the skunks, and the pinnipeds. They tend to play larger roles in fiction than most other mammals. How often have you seen fictional lions, tigers, leopards, etc?
Dimadick (
talk) 08:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Without any evidence that anthropomorphic carnivorans (as in, the scientific classification) play an outsized role in fiction, this is pure speculation. The sources would have to actually mention carnivorans as opposed to just lions and tigers.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I do not understand
User:Dimadick's argument. If there are hardly any anthropomorphic lions and tigers then there is certainly no need to leave anthropomorphic cats isolated from anthropomorphic dogs and bears.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:34, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't either. I reallyreally would need to see some external citations making this case as a defining intersection.
Mason (
talk) 20:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge I don't understand Dimadick's point either - unless readers know what a carnivoran is, which many don't, this division impedes navigation and is not necessary for size management.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bennett Medical football seasons
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Category:Fictional victims
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Nominator's rationale: The use of the term "victim" to describe these categories is not accurate. Dead characters are not necessarily victims of a crime, while captives or survivors are not necessarily victims of anything either. Given how totally incorrect the usage is, this category should be outright deleted.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:25, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose, I think this is an appropriate fictional counterpart to
Category:Victims.
AHI-3000 (
talk) 05:44, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. A vague concept, to which none of the content really applies.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Really only the crime victims subcategory belongs. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Companies based in La Paz, Baja California Sur
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Category:Video games by game mechanic
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Nominator's rationale: These still just seem to be genres, not game mechanics. I would otherwise suggest a merge to
Category:Video games by gameplay element, but it doesn't seem necessary at all anyway.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Redundant with incorrect contents. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 11:59, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Environment of Baja California
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Delete with caveat, it is a redundant layer indeed but the subcategory does not contain history. In fact "environment" describes the content of the subcategory much better.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:34, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:California women architects
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Merge per nom, not a meaningful intersection. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dioceses of the Anglican Church of Mexico
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Category:Food Network Star contestants
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Keep. It doesn't seem to me that this fails PERFCAT because the people who are listed were actively on Food Network Star; they didn't make one-shot apperances. If this category is going to be deleted, then I guess I can look forward to all categories being deleted from its parent category
Category:Participants in American reality television series. Erpertblah, blah, blah... 22:21, 6 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35T--
C 15:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 15:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. It is not very different from actors by television series.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:05, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Roman Catholic churches in Taxco
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Category:Roman Catholic churches in San Andrés Cholula
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary categorization of one article. Upmerge as below and delete resulting empty categories. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 15:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Japanese novelists by century
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Category:Spaceflight before 1951
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Category:Iron Chef contestants
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Category:Order of Ľudovít Štúr
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Delete per
WP:OCAWARD. This is a third level award and the biography articles for recipients don't treat it as defining, generally listing it with other honours. (If kept, by all means rename as nominated.) -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 23:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Louis Vuitton exclusive models
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Category:Paintings in Haarlem
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Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not needed, the subcategory is already in the right targets.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:03, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Does not aid navigation with current contents. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spacecraft launched in 1944 and Category:1949 in spaceflight
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Nominator's rationale: Small category that isn't helpful for navigation. There seems to be a clear cutoff for the category in 1951 (
Category:Spaceflight before 1951Mason (
talk) 03:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep,
category:1949 in spaceflight now has two entries. The 1944 category, which could be renamed "1944 in spaceflight", as well as the 1949 category, should be kept for historical importance, as
MW 18014 was the first artificial object in space and
Albert II was the first mammal and first primate in space. Even
Viking (rocket) should be in its own category, "1950 in spaceflight". If single-entry or two-entry categories are allowed anywhere on Wikipedia, and there are many, then these seem applicable.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 11:55, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Mergeper nomper below comment. Not enough content per year in the 1940s to warrant a by year tree. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC) (edited 17:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC))reply
@
Marcocapelle and
Smasongarrison: I have updated the parenting of some of these cats and would propose this structure for merging: –
Aidan721 (
talk) 17:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Dual Merge per above. Too narrow to aid navigation. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Railways authorised but not built in the United Kingdom
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Category:Restaurants in Hillsboro, Oregon
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OCLOCATION and
WP:NOTDIRECTORY The two articles in this category are both restaurant chains that started in nearby Portland, Oregon and eventually added a location in suburban Hillsboro.
WP:NARROWCAT is not an issue though since
Yelp shows locations in Hillsboro for Portland-based
Little Big Burger, Seattle-based
MOD Pizza and Orlando-based
Olive Garden. I can see the original location of chain restaurants being defining since it may reflect local culture but there are web sites other than Wikipedia more suited for finding local dining options. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 03:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Not useful to categorize chains in that way. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:3rd-millennium BC Indian people
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Nominator's rationale: We don't diffuse people by millennia and religion. Only member is already in the grandparent category.
Mason (
talk) 03:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Only member of the category is incorrectly classified. Not all hindus are indian
Mason (
talk) 03:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I have added the article
Agastya to
Category:3rd-millennium BC Indian people so the category is no longer empty. But, more likely, the article should be removed from all 3rd-millennium BC categories. At least I cannot find confirmation of that in the article text.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 02:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
As nobody else replied, I have removed the 3rd-millennium category tags from
Agastya and support the nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete both per nom. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:43, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Red cattle
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Nominator's rationale:delete, trivial characteristic. Besides based on the pictures I'd say some are brown, so it is subjective too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 10:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Er, no, nonsense. Coat colour is a defining characteristic in cattle breeds, exactly as it is not in (most) horse breeds. Major works of reference such as
this and
this classify cattle breeds into groups based on coat colour, as did the now-defunct
breed website of the University of Veterinary Medicine Hannover and as do others who actually know what they're talking about – see for example
this Scholar search. Oh, and 'brown' cattle look like
this.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 10:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
The articles are clear about the color red, but they aren't clear at all about whether these breeds belong together as an official red group.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Marcocapelle, I don't know what you think you mean by 'official' in this context – as I understand it, we don't categorise topics based on the rules or instructions of officials, but on what is reported in
independent reliable sources. Cattle are commonly classified by colour, as in the sources I linked for you above. The TiHo example I gave was for a grey breed (I'll create that category soon);
here is one for a red breed, the
Angeln – NB "Group of similar breeds: Main group Red group; Subgroup Central European Red". The same breed is classified by Felius (page 69) in her subgroup 2A, West European Red Lowland breeds; Porter et al (page 108) also classify it in Subgroup 2A, but call that grouping 'West and Northeast European Lowland red breeds'. The Angeln is one of the dozen or so red breeds that together constitute the
European Red Dairy Breed (yes, no article on that as yet).
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 17:10, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is clearly meant to be a breed, which is not a trivial characteristic.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 12:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
No, the category contains breeds, red cattle is not 'a' breed in itself.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete Human
hair color is a continuum, and it is similar to the kinds of hair found in other mammals. Also, color can vary in some cattle breeds, such as the
Texas Longhorn. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:46, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 23:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
OK, one more comment, with an actual oppose this time.
Aberdeen Angus cattle in most countries of the world may be either black or red. In the United States the
American Angus may only be black; red Angus cattle can not be registered under that name, but can be registered in a separate herd-book as
Red Angus. The two colours are genetically indistinguishable; if colour is not a defining characteristic, on what basis are these breeds defined?
LaundryPizza03, you are right that not all cattle breeds have been
selectively bred to display one specific colour or colour pattern, but many have; humans have not (I hope and trust) ever been selectively bred for hair colour or any other characteristic, so appear to be quite irrelevant here.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 11:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 01:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Human–animal hybrids
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Keep For the main reason that it has an article associated with it,
Human-animal hybrid. Also, it's clear that humans can be hybrids with other species, such as
Interbreeding between archaic and modern humans (in real life, before everything that wasn't a modern human went extinct) and fictional examples like demigods and half-elves.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 07:15, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
reply
I did remove some of the confusing and unnecessary parent categories of it. But I don't necessarily think the creation of this category was unwarranted, as it is a legitimate encyclopedic subtopic.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 07:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Heading towards no consensus, but additional participation would be welcome. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 01:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Actually I kind of misunderstood the purpose of this category. I figured it was for fictional characters, but there's already a
Category:Fictional human–animal hybrids. Given that there is, so far, nothing of this nature in real life, its existence is not necessary as a container category and can just lead to confusion.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:19, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The two articles are partially or wholly about non-fiction though. If the category is not kept it is recommendable to create a cross-reference between the two subcats and mention
Human–animal hybrid in a see-also note on both category pages.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
In that case, I'd support
humanzee going to
Category:Human hybrids. We don't need 2 separate container categories here, it's repetitive.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 22:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kyrgyzstani men by occupation
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There are no other categories in the parent, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 02:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose, the nominated category is sufficiently populated in itself and this would leave a random gap in the tree of
Category:Men by nationality and occupation. I probably would support merging all 212 categories in this tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 01:45, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Toledo Athletic Association football seasons
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Same person as before - I do remember there being a mass deletion discussion for the "Fictional American people of Fooian descent" categories... -
94.44.241.101 (
talk) 14:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 00:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose. I don't understand the rationale here by the nominator.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
To be honest, I do not understand the rationale. Genocide survivors have nothing to do with descent.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:47, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:7th-century Indian novels
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to have a category with a single page in it. (The lone page is already in 7th-century novels)
Mason (
talk) 00:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:10th-century novelists by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: Only one nationality in each of these categories, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. It is rather the subcategories that should have been nominated.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:12th-century Irish-language poets
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Nominator's rationale: Multimerge for now. There's only one person in these two categories which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one person in here, which isn't helpful for navigation.
Mason (
talk) 00:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:11th-century Venetian writers
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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge for now. There's only one person in this category, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Lists of painters by religion
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Category:Artists by culture
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Nominator's rationale: It is extremely unclear to me how to diffuse artists by culture. Some of these are religion, region, and ethnicity. We don't have a People by culture category.
Mason (
talk) 00:06, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters who awoke from a coma
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Nominator's rationale: This would seem to fail
WP:NONDEF. Unlike in real life, waking from a coma is a common plot device in fiction. It may or may not result in any effects to the person who was in the coma. If it did cause any defining negative effects, the character would probably belong in the "disabilities" category instead.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 23:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Cursory browse of the articles seems to confirm that most of these characters are not defined by the effects of their coma. ― novov(tc) 02:23, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Seems akin to
WP:PERFCAT, albeit for fictional characters. Likely a plot device that is never mentioned again. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:53, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose/keep – I understand the rationale, but comas are regularly discussed and reported about in reliable independent sources, such as in the following sourcs:
[1],
[2],
[3],
[4] and
[5]. Additionally, I disagree that these are non defining – the comas really affect the development of the character, which is also affects the plot, the characterisation, the casting and because of it the reception. Additionally, whilst the comas do not often affect the characters greatly physically, they often do mentally; for example,
Nina Reeves was in a coma for 20+ years in her universe and this greatly changed the characterisation of the character, and also created many storylines, such as the introduction of her children and finding out who tried to kill her. Another example is
Marlena Evans; her coma was used to explain the actress' 4 year gap from the soap, and was then used to create further storylines (source:
[6]). The actress was actually unhappy about the character being put into a coma due to thinking that it was stupid. Overall, it is not non-defining as it really affects the character both through in universe and real world perspective.
DaniloDaysOfOurLives (
talk) 01:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The character waking from a coma affects the plot of the show, but the character themselves is not affected by it. (If they were, there'd be better categories for it, such as
Category:Fictional characters with mental disorders). To be defining, something has to have a non-transitory effect on a character.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 12:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sex workers by cause of death
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now, as there's only one category in here. (And yes, I know that I also made the category...)
Mason (
talk) 21:58, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. As the creator, you could also manually merge the sub-category and request deletion via
WP:G7. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 22:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I wasn't sure if it qualified for g7, because another editor has made changes to the category
[7].
Mason (
talk) 00:57, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
It doesn't look like their edit was substantial, so might pass. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 04:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Syriac-language writers by century
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Nominator's rationale: I don't think that the intersection of language and gender and occupation is defining. (Single merge because all three women are also in the irish women singers categories)
Mason (
talk) 20:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge The intersection does not seem defining. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Irish-language singers by century
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to isolate two underpopulated categories. It's unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 20:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge Doesn't aid navigation with the current articles. If this topic are grows substantially, we can revisit. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Beechcraft Baron
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Nominator's rationale: The subject aircraft carries less than 10 passengers and is primarily used in
general aviation, not airline service. Crashes of this aircraft are generally non-prominent per
WP:AIRCRASH and
WP:ROTM, and the few notable exceptions can be adequately covered in the article about the aircraft type or articles about Wikinotable victims. The category has never received more than 10 daily pageviews.
Carguychris (
talk) 18:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle: most light aircraft types don't have their own categories. The aircraft article itself is typically considered adequate to encapsulate any notable accidents or other relevant information.
Carguychris (
talk) 00:49, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Cessna 206
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Nominator's rationale: The subject aircraft carries less than 10 passengers and is primarily used in
general aviation, not airline service. Crashes of this aircraft are generally non-prominent per
WP:AIRCRASH and
WP:ROTM, and the few notable crashes can be adequately covered in the article about the aircraft type or articles about any Wikinotable victims.
Carguychris (
talk) 18:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge for now to
Category:Cessna aircraft, as there is only one article in the category. No objection to recreate the category when more articles are available.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Religious universities and colleges by country
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Nominator's rationale: Currently, the name of this category scheme forces it to be a container category for "Christian universities and colleges in ...", "Islamic universities and colleges in ...", etc. Renaming allows this category to be de-containerized and articles can begin populating these categories where either a small sub-cat would have to be created or the article would be missing from the tree entirely. This rename would align the naming convention with the sub-categories in
Category:Religious schools by country. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 18:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anarchists from Austria-Hungary
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The result of the discussion was:Merge and rename, no consensus to delete, without prejudice against a new CfD focusing solely on deletion.
* Pppery *it has begun... 20:39, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category. "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" has been the default category for three years, this new category was created seemingly without awareness of the existence of the other. No reason for them to remain separated.
Grnrchst (
talk) 10:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge but the other way around - i.e. merge "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" to "Anarchists from Austria-Hungary" - since the parent category is
Category:People from Austria-Hungary. It is likely also why the creator was not aware of its existance since all the category names are formatted the same way except for "Austro-Hungarian anarchists".
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 12:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge and rename as above comment. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" seems less useful as a category (are there many people in this category who are more commonly described as "Austro-Hungarian" than "Austrian" or "Hungarian"?). --
asilvering (
talk) 07:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Asilvering: Honestly, I doubt the usefulness of the category entirely. Each of the entries in either category could just as easily be fit under
Category:Austrian anarchists or
Category:Czech anarchists. In fact, most of them already are. But deletion is a separate discussion. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst agreed, though I suppose I don't really see the harm if those entries are in Austrian and Czech and so on as well. This isn't a problem just with this category; there's some really bizarre stuff going on with "... from the Russian Empire" too. I assume they were all created at some point when things changed from "American people" to "people from the United States" basically across the board. I'd just as soon see this and similar categories deleted. --
asilvering (
talk) 20:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per above. Both are redundant to existing categories. czar 15:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strongly oppose deletion. They were in fact citizens of Austria-Hungary. Austrian and Czech are anachronisms, or ethnicities at best.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose deletion for the same reason. Being an anarachist in Austria Hungary specifically is what makes these people defining.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
It isn't defining in any meaningful way. Two of them (Kácha and Landová-Štychová) were in self-defined Czech organisations before and after the fall of Austria-Hungary, and the other two (Peukert and Havel) spent most of their lives outside of Austria-Hungary in London and the United States, where they did most of their notable work. Nothing in their biographies gives the impression that "being an anarchist in Austria-Hungary specifically" was a defining characteristic. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Josef Peukert wasn't even of Czech ethnicity. If they were active as anarchists in other countries than Austria-Hungary then they should be categorized by that country.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I never said Peukert was of Czech ethnicity... --
Grnrchst (
talk) 19:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle: It is utterly appallingly inaccurate to claim the demonym of "Czech" is an anachronism.
Luisa Landová-Štychová and
Michael Kácha were both members of specifically (and self-defined) Czech anarchist and socialist organisations when the Austria-Hungary existed, and continued to be active in Czech organisations after the formation of Czechoslovakia. Explain to me how "Czech" can possibly be an anachronism when they literally described themselves as such?
Grnrchst (
talk) 18:32, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst, I think you're taking this a bit too personally. The point is that there is no point in deleting the categories because they were citizens of Austria-Hungary which had a diverse group of people within it with many identities.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 18:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge as clearly redundant. If there's a broader issue with how we categorize ethnicities from this empire, we can sort that out in a larger nom. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 12:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. Clarifying my !vote above. I don't think that the arguments of Marcocappelle and Omnis Scientia make any sense from a historical perspective, and I'm really shocked by the assertion that "Czech" is an anachronism. --
asilvering (
talk) 02:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Austria-Hungary was a proper country until 1918 so I am unsure what you mean when you say that the arguments do not make sense from a historical perspective.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:25, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Not sure what you mean here. Austria-Hungary was a real country and people living there were Austro-Hungarian. Hence anarachists living there are also Austro-Hungarian.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters without a name
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Nominator's rationale: Vague category that probably falls under
WP:TRIVIALCAT. For example, The Outsider from Dishonored is more known for the fact that he's a godlike supernatural being, than the fact that he has no name.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:36, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom, vague and non-defining, and I could imagine pointless edit wars breaking out over whether a certain character is truly nameless.
Carguychris (
talk) 01:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. It is an unremarkable characteristic for a secondary fictional character.
brides of Dracula is an example.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Social groups
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Nominator's rationale: merge, "ethnic groups" and "social groups" are overlapping concepts.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Please provide a more detailed rationale. The Russia category, for example, includes Russian serfs, kulaks, new Russians, podkulachnik, and Russian oligarch which are categorically not ethnic groups. The only solutions I see are to either create a new, broader umbrella category with an encompassing name, or keep the status quo, perhaps with some articles in both categories. —MichaelZ. 15:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include a common nation of origin, or common sets of ancestry, traditions, language, history, society, religion, or social treatment. Probably with the exception of oligarchs and podkulachnik these groups fit the definition.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:45, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
No, the others are external descriptions imposed on people.
Russian serfs were people of any ethnicity, and no more an ethnic group than slaves, including slaves in Russia.
Kulak was supposedly an economic class early on, but it and
podkulachnik (“kulak henchman”) became slurs used to dehumanize Ukrainians during the Holodomor genocide.
Oppose; not all of these are ethnic groups so it is best to keep them seperate.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 09:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Turkoman tribes
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CommentMerge, but one concern I have is that there are also the
22/24 Oghuz tribes mentioned in medieval works.
Category:Oghuz tribes currently contains those tribes, while those that were excluded from that traditional division and appeared later in history are part of
Category:Turkoman tribes. I believe after the merge a new sub-category should be created to encapsulate those 22/24 tribes. I agree that per
Turkoman (ethnonym), the names of these categories refer to the same topic.
Aintabli (
talk) 02:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
As the article describes it, the list of 22/24 is not a definitive classification, it is rather a grey area.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:53, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
It is a historical classification, not something that can be "definitive". They are separate from tribes such as "Rumlu", "Shamlu", etc. which appeared much later.
On a different note, "Turkoman" (or "Turkmen," "Turkman", etc.) is a term that dates back to the medieval ages but is certainly not something "outdated," because modern sources use it very frequently,
even more than "Oghuz". If the merge proposal is solely based on that assumption, I would not exactly support it. I am kind of unsure now and have struck my vote. I agree that the distinction between "Turkoman tribes" and "Oghuz tribes" is unclear, because the first refers to the latter, but "Turkoman" is very common (even more, if we take other forms into account) and per sources, could be more appropriate to categorize some tribes as.
Aintabli (
talk) 21:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom, due to the terms being overlapping. If there is an official or semi-official classification with a fixed list, then that belongs in a list article, as a category cannot be expected to have constant content over time and technicalities of category inclusion are inefficient in regards to sourcing, as opposed to a list. See guideline
WP:Categories, lists, and navigation templates.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:New Zealand translators by century
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one century in here, which is unhelpful for navigation.
Mason (
talk) 17:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
If you're going to do that, please populate the categories. Having a single page in the category is not helpful.
Mason (
talk) 17:32, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:19, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
When there are only two categories, the intermediate category layer is still not meaningful. So still merge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
So make more! Now they each have three. Keep all. –
FayenaticLondon 12:32, 11 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep per Fayenatic london. HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 02:09, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anthropomorphic carnivorans
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Nominator's rationale: Same deal, different category. Using such a specifically scientific term for fictional characters is random and unnecessary.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 03:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. No need to diffuse by scientific terms.
Mason (
talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose It's not random or unnecessary, but great for difusion.
★Trekker (
talk) 12:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose Neither random, nor unnecessary.
Dimadick (
talk) 06:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose for the same reasons.
AHI-3000 (
talk) 09:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories each. Merging will allow easier navigation between the subcategories lower in the tree, e.g. between antropomorphic bears and cats.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge I don't think adding the tree of life scientific terminology is likely to aid navigation for readers interested in non-biological fictional topics. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 04:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Support or oppose Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Toadette(
Merry Christmas, and a happy new year) 12:53, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Question: Can one of the opposers (@
StarTrekker@
AHI-3000@
Dimadick) explain how this distinction is helpful and meaningful. Because I am not understanding why we'd need to diffuse this way. I don't see how this isn't random, and I don't see why this is even needed.
Mason (
talk) 03:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
ReplyCarnivora includes most of the predatory mammals, including the felids, the hyenas, the canines, the bears, the raccoons, the skunks, and the pinnipeds. They tend to play larger roles in fiction than most other mammals. How often have you seen fictional lions, tigers, leopards, etc?
Dimadick (
talk) 08:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Without any evidence that anthropomorphic carnivorans (as in, the scientific classification) play an outsized role in fiction, this is pure speculation. The sources would have to actually mention carnivorans as opposed to just lions and tigers.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 17:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I do not understand
User:Dimadick's argument. If there are hardly any anthropomorphic lions and tigers then there is certainly no need to leave anthropomorphic cats isolated from anthropomorphic dogs and bears.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:34, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't either. I reallyreally would need to see some external citations making this case as a defining intersection.
Mason (
talk) 20:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge I don't understand Dimadick's point either - unless readers know what a carnivoran is, which many don't, this division impedes navigation and is not necessary for size management.
* Pppery *it has begun... 17:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bennett Medical football seasons
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Category:Fictional victims
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Nominator's rationale: The use of the term "victim" to describe these categories is not accurate. Dead characters are not necessarily victims of a crime, while captives or survivors are not necessarily victims of anything either. Given how totally incorrect the usage is, this category should be outright deleted.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:25, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose, I think this is an appropriate fictional counterpart to
Category:Victims.
AHI-3000 (
talk) 05:44, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. A vague concept, to which none of the content really applies.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Really only the crime victims subcategory belongs. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Companies based in La Paz, Baja California Sur
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Category:Video games by game mechanic
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Nominator's rationale: These still just seem to be genres, not game mechanics. I would otherwise suggest a merge to
Category:Video games by gameplay element, but it doesn't seem necessary at all anyway.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Redundant with incorrect contents. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 11:59, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Environment of Baja California
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Delete with caveat, it is a redundant layer indeed but the subcategory does not contain history. In fact "environment" describes the content of the subcategory much better.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 18:34, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:California women architects
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Merge per nom, not a meaningful intersection. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dioceses of the Anglican Church of Mexico
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Category:Food Network Star contestants
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Keep. It doesn't seem to me that this fails PERFCAT because the people who are listed were actively on Food Network Star; they didn't make one-shot apperances. If this category is going to be deleted, then I guess I can look forward to all categories being deleted from its parent category
Category:Participants in American reality television series. Erpertblah, blah, blah... 22:21, 6 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35T--
C 15:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 15:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. It is not very different from actors by television series.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:05, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Roman Catholic churches in Taxco
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Category:Roman Catholic churches in San Andrés Cholula
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary categorization of one article. Upmerge as below and delete resulting empty categories. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 15:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Japanese novelists by century
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Category:Spaceflight before 1951
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Category:Iron Chef contestants
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Category:Order of Ľudovít Štúr
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Delete per
WP:OCAWARD. This is a third level award and the biography articles for recipients don't treat it as defining, generally listing it with other honours. (If kept, by all means rename as nominated.) -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 23:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Louis Vuitton exclusive models
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Category:Paintings in Haarlem
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Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not needed, the subcategory is already in the right targets.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:03, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Does not aid navigation with current contents. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spacecraft launched in 1944 and Category:1949 in spaceflight
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Nominator's rationale: Small category that isn't helpful for navigation. There seems to be a clear cutoff for the category in 1951 (
Category:Spaceflight before 1951Mason (
talk) 03:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep,
category:1949 in spaceflight now has two entries. The 1944 category, which could be renamed "1944 in spaceflight", as well as the 1949 category, should be kept for historical importance, as
MW 18014 was the first artificial object in space and
Albert II was the first mammal and first primate in space. Even
Viking (rocket) should be in its own category, "1950 in spaceflight". If single-entry or two-entry categories are allowed anywhere on Wikipedia, and there are many, then these seem applicable.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 11:55, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Mergeper nomper below comment. Not enough content per year in the 1940s to warrant a by year tree. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC) (edited 17:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC))reply
@
Marcocapelle and
Smasongarrison: I have updated the parenting of some of these cats and would propose this structure for merging: –
Aidan721 (
talk) 17:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Dual Merge per above. Too narrow to aid navigation. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Railways authorised but not built in the United Kingdom
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Category:Restaurants in Hillsboro, Oregon
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OCLOCATION and
WP:NOTDIRECTORY The two articles in this category are both restaurant chains that started in nearby Portland, Oregon and eventually added a location in suburban Hillsboro.
WP:NARROWCAT is not an issue though since
Yelp shows locations in Hillsboro for Portland-based
Little Big Burger, Seattle-based
MOD Pizza and Orlando-based
Olive Garden. I can see the original location of chain restaurants being defining since it may reflect local culture but there are web sites other than Wikipedia more suited for finding local dining options. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 03:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Not useful to categorize chains in that way. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:3rd-millennium BC Indian people
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Nominator's rationale: We don't diffuse people by millennia and religion. Only member is already in the grandparent category.
Mason (
talk) 03:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Only member of the category is incorrectly classified. Not all hindus are indian
Mason (
talk) 03:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I have added the article
Agastya to
Category:3rd-millennium BC Indian people so the category is no longer empty. But, more likely, the article should be removed from all 3rd-millennium BC categories. At least I cannot find confirmation of that in the article text.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 02:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
As nobody else replied, I have removed the 3rd-millennium category tags from
Agastya and support the nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete both per nom. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 14:43, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Red cattle
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Nominator's rationale:delete, trivial characteristic. Besides based on the pictures I'd say some are brown, so it is subjective too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 10:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Er, no, nonsense. Coat colour is a defining characteristic in cattle breeds, exactly as it is not in (most) horse breeds. Major works of reference such as
this and
this classify cattle breeds into groups based on coat colour, as did the now-defunct
breed website of the University of Veterinary Medicine Hannover and as do others who actually know what they're talking about – see for example
this Scholar search. Oh, and 'brown' cattle look like
this.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 10:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
The articles are clear about the color red, but they aren't clear at all about whether these breeds belong together as an official red group.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Marcocapelle, I don't know what you think you mean by 'official' in this context – as I understand it, we don't categorise topics based on the rules or instructions of officials, but on what is reported in
independent reliable sources. Cattle are commonly classified by colour, as in the sources I linked for you above. The TiHo example I gave was for a grey breed (I'll create that category soon);
here is one for a red breed, the
Angeln – NB "Group of similar breeds: Main group Red group; Subgroup Central European Red". The same breed is classified by Felius (page 69) in her subgroup 2A, West European Red Lowland breeds; Porter et al (page 108) also classify it in Subgroup 2A, but call that grouping 'West and Northeast European Lowland red breeds'. The Angeln is one of the dozen or so red breeds that together constitute the
European Red Dairy Breed (yes, no article on that as yet).
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 17:10, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is clearly meant to be a breed, which is not a trivial characteristic.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 12:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
No, the category contains breeds, red cattle is not 'a' breed in itself.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete Human
hair color is a continuum, and it is similar to the kinds of hair found in other mammals. Also, color can vary in some cattle breeds, such as the
Texas Longhorn. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄) 19:46, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 23:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
OK, one more comment, with an actual oppose this time.
Aberdeen Angus cattle in most countries of the world may be either black or red. In the United States the
American Angus may only be black; red Angus cattle can not be registered under that name, but can be registered in a separate herd-book as
Red Angus. The two colours are genetically indistinguishable; if colour is not a defining characteristic, on what basis are these breeds defined?
LaundryPizza03, you are right that not all cattle breeds have been
selectively bred to display one specific colour or colour pattern, but many have; humans have not (I hope and trust) ever been selectively bred for hair colour or any other characteristic, so appear to be quite irrelevant here.
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk) 11:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 01:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Human–animal hybrids
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Keep For the main reason that it has an article associated with it,
Human-animal hybrid. Also, it's clear that humans can be hybrids with other species, such as
Interbreeding between archaic and modern humans (in real life, before everything that wasn't a modern human went extinct) and fictional examples like demigods and half-elves.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 07:15, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
reply
I did remove some of the confusing and unnecessary parent categories of it. But I don't necessarily think the creation of this category was unwarranted, as it is a legitimate encyclopedic subtopic.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 07:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Heading towards no consensus, but additional participation would be welcome. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 01:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete Actually I kind of misunderstood the purpose of this category. I figured it was for fictional characters, but there's already a
Category:Fictional human–animal hybrids. Given that there is, so far, nothing of this nature in real life, its existence is not necessary as a container category and can just lead to confusion.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:19, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The two articles are partially or wholly about non-fiction though. If the category is not kept it is recommendable to create a cross-reference between the two subcats and mention
Human–animal hybrid in a see-also note on both category pages.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
In that case, I'd support
humanzee going to
Category:Human hybrids. We don't need 2 separate container categories here, it's repetitive.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 22:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kyrgyzstani men by occupation
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There are no other categories in the parent, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 02:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose, the nominated category is sufficiently populated in itself and this would leave a random gap in the tree of
Category:Men by nationality and occupation. I probably would support merging all 212 categories in this tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 20:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 01:45, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Toledo Athletic Association football seasons
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Same person as before - I do remember there being a mass deletion discussion for the "Fictional American people of Fooian descent" categories... -
94.44.241.101 (
talk) 14:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 00:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose. I don't understand the rationale here by the nominator.
Omnis Scientia (
talk) 11:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
To be honest, I do not understand the rationale. Genocide survivors have nothing to do with descent.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:47, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:7th-century Indian novels
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to have a category with a single page in it. (The lone page is already in 7th-century novels)
Mason (
talk) 00:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:10th-century novelists by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: Only one nationality in each of these categories, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. It is rather the subcategories that should have been nominated.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:12th-century Irish-language poets
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Nominator's rationale: Multimerge for now. There's only one person in these two categories which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one person in here, which isn't helpful for navigation.
Mason (
talk) 00:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:11th-century Venetian writers
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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge for now. There's only one person in this category, which is unhelpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 00:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Lists of painters by religion
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Category:Artists by culture
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Nominator's rationale: It is extremely unclear to me how to diffuse artists by culture. Some of these are religion, region, and ethnicity. We don't have a People by culture category.
Mason (
talk) 00:06, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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