This is a list of all open CfD discussions more than seven days old. It is maintained by a bot.
April 20
Category:9th-century Indian biographers
- Propose merging Category:9th-century Indian biographers to Category:9th-century biographers and Category:9th-century Indian scholars and Category:Indian biographers
- Propose merging Category:7th-century Indian biographers to Category:7th-century biographers and Category:Indian biographersand Category:7th-century Indian scholars
- Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge for now. These two categories aren't helpful for navigation with only one person in each, and isolated from other Indian biographers centuries by a thousand years Mason ( talk) 21:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just delete the articles are already in Category:Indian male biographers, Category:9th-century Indian poets and Category:7th-century Indian poets. By the way it escapes me why biographers by nationality are split again by gender. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:"Radium" springs
- Nominator's rationale: Either WP:SHAREDNAME or if there's some more specific connection it's not explained by the articles. Needs a rename if kept. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, these springs have minimal or no radium.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Correct! Radium springs were a non-scientific marketing hook during the early 20th century radium fad. Some springs do show measurable levels of radium (e.g. Stinky Springs) but the reason for the scare quotes here is to indicate that the "radium" claims were mostly bunkum but left a toponymic legacy long after the radium health craze was over, and/or just that as part of that radium-is-healthy! trend they were marketed as radium springs at some point in spring's history, such as was the case with White Point Hot Springs. This doesn't need to be a category bc who cares but just wanted to explain the rationale for creating the category in the first place. jengod ( talk) 19:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Jengod: do you not want to convert the category to a list within the article Radium fad? – Fayenatic London 08:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Zionism by former country
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Zionism by former country to Category:Anti-Zionism by country
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously closed as merge; relisted per request.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster ( talk · he/him) 18:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- With meanwhile two subcategories it is still a redundant category layer. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:10th-century Chinese adoptees
- Nominator's rationale: Dual merge: Non defining intersection between century and adoption status Mason ( talk) 14:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:History books about Eastern Europe
- Propose upmerging Category:History books about Eastern Europe to Category:History books about Europe
- Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Indirect follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 5#Category:Eastern Europe in fiction and other precedents. There is no universally agreed definition of " Eastern Europe" (or "Western/Northern/Southern/Central/Southeastern etc. Europe"), and as such, it is usually better avoided in categorisation. There is no Category:History books about Southern Europe or Category:History books about Central Europe etc. either. The subcategories are not about "Eastern Europe" as such or specifically. The 6 articles in it are arguably about "Eastern Europe" (again depending on definition), but not just "Eastern Europe"; most of them include Poland, Hungary, Romana, Western Ukraine etc. which are sometimes also considered "Central Europe" or "Southeastern Europe". Even the last book, The Walls Came Tumbling Down: The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe, which has "Eastern Europe" in the title, is using a Cold War era definition that almost nobody uses anymore. Meanwhile, the target Category:History books about Europe also includes books such as Revolution 1989: The Fall of the Soviet Empire, so I think upmerging is the proper thing to do. NLeeuw ( talk) 09:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. The Cold War is a nice example of definitions being far from stable. Back then we just had east and west, so that Yugoslavia belonged to east and Greece to west.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hah, well, until you take the Tito-Stalin split and Finlandisation into account... NLeeuw ( talk) 20:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Caribbean people of Arab descent
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) Category:Haitian people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Egyptian descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent
- Propose merging Category:Egyptian emigrants to Haiti (1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent, Category:Immigrants to Haiti and Category:Egyptian emigrants
- Propose merging Category:Jamaican people of Arab descent (2 P) to Category:Jamaican people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Cuban people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Cuban people of Asian descent
- Nominator's rationale: merge, very few articles and for the biographies it is not clear whether the subjects are really of ethnic Arab descent. They could be Druze, Copts, Assyrians, the articles just do not tell about it. A dual merge is not always needed, the biographies are already in Category:People of Syrian descent etc. and the topic articles are already in Category:Arab diaspora in the Caribbean. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Pro-Khalistan militant outfits
- Nominator's rationale: rename, "militant outfits" is a phrase that I have never seen before in category names. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This is a confusing tree. I'm not voting anything yet, I think we need to explore the options first. The main article appears to be Groups of Khalistan movement, which is also a grammatically incorrect title. I think the parent categories provide the best clues: these are Sikh rebel or terrorist groups which seek to establish an independent Khalistan or Sikh state in Punjab through armed violence. I think "organisations" is too generic. How about "Khalistan rebel groups", "Khalistan militant groups" or "Khalistan terrorist organisations"? The articles seem to say almost every single one of them, except Sikhs for Justice, has been designated a terrorist organisation by the government of India, and sometimes other states as well. But since "terrorist" can be POV, "rebel groups" is perhaps more neutral. NLeeuw ( talk) 09:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong.
NLeeuw (
talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- No opinion about that. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong.
NLeeuw (
talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
April 18
Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias
- Propose splitting Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias to Category:Books about Bulgaria and Category:Bulgarian-language encyclopedias
- Nominator's rationale: It is not useful to lump together works from or about Bulgaria with works in the Bulgarian language that could be about different topics. Some entries might remain in the original category if they are about encyclopedias from Bulgaria. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 19:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Split per nom. Alt rename target 2 to
Category:Encyclopedias in Bulgarian per the
c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw ( talk) 00:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:28, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment That an encyclopedia was published in Bulgaria does not mean that the topic is Bulgaria. Encyclopedias tend to cover a wide variety of topics. Dimadick ( talk) 14:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's not what Dimadick said; he pointed out that country of publication and topic do not need to match, rather than that country of publication and language do not need to match.
- Incidentally, specialised English-language encyclopedias are published all over the world all the time. Within a few seconds I just found the Encyclopedia of Coastal Science (2005), published in Dordrecht, the Netherlands. Last I checked, English still isn't the dominant native language over here, but that doesn't stop anyone from publishing encyclopaedias in English on "Dutch" soil. ;) NLeeuw ( talk) 00:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms
- Nominator's rationale: This category feels
WP:COATRACKy. There is no
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians, even though those are far more prevalent. Moreover, many of the incidents here were not even defined by the participation of Muslims so inclusion into the Islam and anti-Semitism article would not always be appropriate.
User:Namiba 18:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --
GCarty (
talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators.
NLeeuw (
talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --
GCarty (
talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- This would be comparable to the existing Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia.
- Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Mandatory Palestine and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Ottoman Palestine could also be moved into this category.
- Splitting to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a
Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Middle East" is a very modern term, coined in the 20th century. "Middle East and North Africa" is even more recent. I don't think it's a good idea. If we are going to rescope by geography rather than perpetrator's religion (which is an improvement), let's stick to continents:
- That would work for me.
NLeeuw (
talk) 22:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Middle East is the modern successor term of Near East which has existed for a long time. Jews have been very prevalent specifically in the Middle East (since ancient times) and in North Africa (since many centuries) so splitting to Middle East and North Africa fits very well with Jewish history. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Splitting to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a
Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --
GCarty (
talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators.
NLeeuw (
talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --
GCarty (
talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support for upmerging. The fact that there is no equivalent
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians tree is striking; either it will have to be created, or the
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims needs to be upmerged. Given that, as far as I can see, there are no article titles identifying the religion of the perpetrators, only identifying the location and or year of the pogrom(s), nom is probably correct.
NLeeuw (
talk) 18:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @ Marcocapelle and Smasongarrison: for your consideration. NLeeuw ( talk) 18:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with consistency and do not oppose the nomination. Alternatively we may create and populate Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:39, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile GCarty proposed another alternative which (if slightly modified) I would not oppose either. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. If not, delete. "By Muslims" is simply unacceptable in a category name. Even when the majority of the perpetrators were Muslims, the name implies that their religion was a key factor in the process (rather than politics, economics, etc.). Usually this is either false or unknown. Would we name a cat about things done by Israel with "by Jews"?
Zero
talk 04:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned above, I now think the this category (which I created originally) should be replaced with Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and/or Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa. -- GCarty ( talk) 19:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- As the nominator, I suggest we merge with no objection to splitting off articles by continent for consistency's sake.-- User:Namiba 20:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)- Merge per nom and per discussion above. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 20:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge or delete per Zero ( t · c) buidhe 08:19, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support splitting to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa, as these will fit within Category:History of the Jews in the Middle East and Category:History of the Jews in North Africa. – Fayenatic London 12:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
April 15
Category:Marching
- Nominator's rationale: Purge or reparent. Are pride parades part of military traditions? There's already Category:Military marching and Category:Military marches. -- MikutoH talk! 02:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Selectively merge to Category:Parades and turn the page into a disambiguation page, per WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
April 13
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in New Caledonia
- Nominator's rationale: Broaden this category to include 19th-century churches of all denominations. There are only two pages in here, and 4 total in the entire Roman Catholic churches in New Caledonia Mason ( talk) 23:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:19th century in New Caledonia. Even this category is so small that Category:19th-century churches in New Caledonia is certainly not viable. Marcocapelle ( talk) 23:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep for categorising under the dependent territory and the continent category trees. (Otherwise combine with the counterparts for other territoires d'outre-mer, collectivités d'outre-mer, pays d'outre-mer and collectivités sui generis.) 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Both the rename and the merge proposal are keeping the content in the tree of the the dependent territory, so this is not a reason to oppose. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:22, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- In that case either keep as it is, or, less preferably, keep a big tent category for Roman Catholic churches of all collectivités d'outre-mer along with the sole pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- I countered your argument in my previous reply. Then it does not make sense to repeat your "keep" without any new argument.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- FYI to the closer this IP is probably WP:LTA/HKGW Mason ( talk) 02:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- I countered your argument in my previous reply. Then it does not make sense to repeat your "keep" without any new argument.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Justarandomamerican ( talk) Have a good day! 01:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)- Marcocapelle you didn't have a single word on the big-tent proposal on a category for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis. What's your take? (...are keeping the content in the tree of the the dependent territory... And no I don't mean generally the tree under Category:Dependent territories but Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory specifically.) 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 08:11, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory is a container category i.e. not a merge target for a category populated with articles. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- So what's your take in the big-tent proposal for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis? Such a category can be placed under
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory.
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 07:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- No one is removing the category from Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory, you're just imposing unnecessary layers that at the present do not help navigation. Mason ( talk) 23:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- So what's your take in the big-tent proposal for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis? Such a category can be placed under
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory.
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 07:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 20:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)- @ Marcocapelle, @ Mason, any compromise here? — Qwerfjkl talk 17:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Battles involving Bengal
- Nominator's rationale: merge, battles are diffused by (former) countries and Bengal was not a country. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Battles involving Bangladesh, The battles in the category are involved Bengal region and Bangladesh is created from the a big part of the region. It would be better to rename the category and make specify it for country-wise battle category. Mehedi Abedin 09:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Military history of Bengal. IMHO this is a useful division of Category:History of Bengal. – Fayenatic London 09:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok that is a reasonable alternative, but then still the content should be added to
Category:Battles involving the Indian kingdoms too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle: it should only be a selective merge to that parent, because many of the articles are already in other subcats of that one, and I'm not sure whether the others belong there. I suggest you watch the category and merge any valid missing items yourself if the rename goes through. – Fayenatic London 15:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Marcocapelle ( talk) 15:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok that is a reasonable alternative, but then still the content should be added to
Category:Battles involving the Indian kingdoms too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
April 10
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Réunion
- Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only 4 churches total in Category:Roman Catholic churches in Réunion, so diffusion by century isn't helpful for navigation Mason ( talk) 20:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- For the last proposed destination, merge to
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France instead. Réunion is a
département et région d'outre-mer of France. The nominator gotta read more to make responsible nominations.
121.202.28.169 (
talk) 11:36, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sigh... to the closer these are probably the same IP ( Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:185.104.63.112_reported_by_User:Smasongarrison_(Result:_Blocked)) Mason ( talk) 14:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- I have mixed feelings about Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France as an alternative merge target, would certainly not strongly oppose it. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- What about, say, Hawaii or Alaska? (Or Malta should integration be achieved back in the 1950s–60s?)
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Or Kaliningrad post-1945? 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:59, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- What about, say, Hawaii or Alaska? (Or Malta should integration be achieved back in the 1950s–60s?)
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep so that it may be grouped under an African parent category when there are also such by continent parents. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- If you create it then of course it is a good merge target too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as stated above; or otherwise the next preferable choice would be merger with Roman catholic church buildings in all other départements et régions d'outre-mer under the same category. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 08:00, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep this category and put it under both the French and the African hierarchy. 83.229.61.201 ( talk) 15:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- As an IP user you can vote as many times as you want but don't expect it to be taken seriously by the closer of the discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further comments on the final merge target, specifically on whether these churches belong in the "France" category, would be appreciated!
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster ( talk · he/him) 14:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)- @
Marcocapelle: I don't bother to vote more than once for this.
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty sure you did... Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Hong Kong geography warrior Mason ( talk) 22:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Marcocapelle: I don't bother to vote more than once for this.
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to multiple targets including France, and the new
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Africa. The nominator has added 2 articles in the nominated category to 2 articles in the Reunion parent to make 4, but they are the same 2 articles, so no breakdown of Reunion churches is justified. –
Fayenatic
London 21:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re the Africa category, I have added a parent
Category:19th-century churches in Africa and retrieved some contents that had been upmerged per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_23#Category:Anglican_cathedrals_by_country. @
CanonNi: please expand the hierarchy around these still-isolated categories to other continents and centuries. –
Fayenatic
London 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry but I created the categories from category requests. Try contacting the requester. Thanks. CanonNi ( talk) 11:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: Cool. Would you think it's easier to navigate and clearer to understand from the audience' point of view to have for these buildings in Réunion a subcategory under both the French and the African categories, than a four-way upmerge?
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for following this – I assume you're the same editor as the requester
59.152.195.28 (
talk ·
contribs). I used to support thin hierarchies with very specific intersections, but in the last few years there have been many precedents at CFD with consensus to merge such cases. So no, I don't recommend creating categories with only one or two members, except where we can reasonably expect that more eligible articles will be created fairly soon. –
Fayenatic
London 13:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- No I'm not. Given the number of articles in French on Wikipedia about churches in Réunion a lot more articles can reasonably be expected. 83.229.61.201 ( talk) 09:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for following this – I assume you're the same editor as the requester
59.152.195.28 (
talk ·
contribs). I used to support thin hierarchies with very specific intersections, but in the last few years there have been many precedents at CFD with consensus to merge such cases. So no, I don't recommend creating categories with only one or two members, except where we can reasonably expect that more eligible articles will be created fairly soon. –
Fayenatic
London 13:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re the Africa category, I have added a parent
Category:19th-century churches in Africa and retrieved some contents that had been upmerged per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_23#Category:Anglican_cathedrals_by_country. @
CanonNi: please expand the hierarchy around these still-isolated categories to other continents and centuries. –
Fayenatic
London 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 16:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
April 8
Category:French forts in the United States
- Propose renaming Category:French forts in the United States to Category:French forts in New France
- Nominator's rationale: This seems anachronistic. These forts were not "in the United States" when they were built and only became so later on. User:Namiba 02:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom, or perhaps simply
Category:Forts in New France.
Category:French forts in Canada may be nominated as well.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment if these forts still existed at the time Canada was established, then the category is correct. And there was also the colony of Canada, New France and colony of United Canadas, British North America -- 65.92.247.66 ( talk) 05:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment if these forts still existed at the time that the USA took over the territory, then they are correct. Such as many forts acquired in the Louisiana Purchase. Or any ruins/museums that still exist today -- 65.92.247.66 ( talk) 05:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- After the United States took them over they were no longer "French forts" and, as American forts, the articles are already in e.g. Category:Colonial forts in Tennessee. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- This is not only a proposed renaming but also an extension of scope; forts in New France that were not in provinces which became the United States will be covered as a result. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Which is perfectly fine. New France has never been divided in an American and a Canadian part. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:56, 30 March 2024 (UTC)- Comment: To the closer: the IPs are all are probably the same IP (see: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:185.104.63.112_reported_by_User:Smasongarrison_(Result:_Blocked), and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/185.104.63.112)
- Mason ( talk) 19:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I think some people aren't reading closely what this category is meant to group, namely:
List of French forts in North America which still exist today, but further subgrouped into Canada and the United States. Which country or colony or state or polity or empire or republic etc. they were part of at the time of their construction is not the point of the "United States" part of the category name. If we're really pedantic about it, this category is about
Category:Forts constructed by the Kingdom of France in its New France colony in North America which still exist today on the territory of the United States of America despite being constructed before that territory became U.S. territory. But that's a little long, so I think the current name
Category:French forts in the United States is fine.
NLeeuw (
talk) 14:52, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- PS: An Alt Rename might be Category:Former French forts in the United States or Category:French-built forts in the United States, but I think that requires renaming the underlying main article List of French forts in North America first. NLeeuw ( talk) 15:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 17:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I have initiated a Requested move at Talk:Architecture of the United States#Requested move 16 April 2024, which is directly relevant to our discussions here. You might want to participate in it. It could resolve the question, especially the example of Category:Colonial architecture in the United States, as we might regard French forts in the United States as an example of "French colonial architecture in the United States". We've already got Category:British colonial architecture in the United States and Category:Spanish Colonial architecture in the United States. NLeeuw ( talk) 06:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Medical schools in the Caribbean
- Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Bonaire to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Bonaire and Category:Universities and colleges in Bonaire - Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Saba (island) to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Saba (island) and Category:Universities and colleges in Saba (island) - Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Sint Maarten to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Sint Maarten and Category:Universities and colleges in Sint Maarten - Propose renaming Category:Schools of medicine in Curaçao to Category:Medical schools in Curaçao
- Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Bonaire to
- Nominator's rationale: Merge categories with only one or two members to all parents. Rename the last WP:C2C. – Fayenatic London 08:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom Mason ( talk) 13:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge/rename per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Sint Maarten and Curaçao are not part of the Netherlands. For the BES islands merge the categories to one named Caribbean Netherlands instead so that they are subcategorized under both the Netherlands and the Caribbean categories.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 08:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I see –
Sint Maarten and
Curaçao are part of the
Kingdom of the Netherlands but not part of the Netherlands. I included the Netherlands target in the nomination because that is currently a parent in each case. Looking for categories using "Caribbean Netherlands", I only found
Category:History of the Caribbean Netherlands. What we do have is
Category:Dutch Caribbean including
Universities and colleges in the Dutch Caribbean, so that is indeed a better home for these. I have amended the nomination accordingly, to merge into a new
Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 10:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:
Medical schools in the Caribbean is much more useful than the Dutch Caribbean.
Mason (
talk) 13:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- As there is a fairly full hierarchy for Dutch Caribbean, I see no reason not to add one more, which will belong in Medical schools in the Caribbean and Medical schools in the Netherlands as well as Health in the Dutch Caribbean. – Fayenatic London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:
Medical schools in the Caribbean is much more useful than the Dutch Caribbean.
Mason (
talk) 13:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I see –
Sint Maarten and
Curaçao are part of the
Kingdom of the Netherlands but not part of the Netherlands. I included the Netherlands target in the nomination because that is currently a parent in each case. Looking for categories using "Caribbean Netherlands", I only found
Category:History of the Caribbean Netherlands. What we do have is
Category:Dutch Caribbean including
Universities and colleges in the Dutch Caribbean, so that is indeed a better home for these. I have amended the nomination accordingly, to merge into a new
Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 10:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: It doesn't sound nice to lump together the BES islands with those of the CAS islands.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 14:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- When you use terms that may not be common knowledge, please link them, e.g. BES islands and CAS islands.
- Sorry if IYHO it doesn't sound nice to use Dutch Caribbean, but setting up a separate sub-hierarchy for Caribbean Netherlands would require many perpetually small categories. The best hierarchy we have is Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: IP has a point this time,
Dutch Caribbean is a non-existent polity. It is merely a legacy term after the
Dutch Antilles were dissolved.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm no expert on the history or current politics, I'm just looking at how our categories are structured at the moment. Would you support a split of the whole Dutch Caribbean hierarchy? If so, I suggest you make a nomination to split some representative categories at the top levels. But until that has happened, the tiny sub-topic of medical schools should follow the existing hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 21:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: IP has a point this time,
Dutch Caribbean is a non-existent polity. It is merely a legacy term after the
Dutch Antilles were dissolved.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: It doesn't sound nice to lump together the BES islands with those of the CAS islands.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 14:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 19:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Well at least I still support merging, even if one of the merge targets ( Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean versus Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean) is disputable. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:44, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Category:Medical schools in Sint Maarten and keep it under Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools by country (along with Category:Medical schools in Curaçao and Category:Medical schools in Aruba). Group medical schools of the BES islands under Caribbean Netherlands and keep them under both Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands. 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 16:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- No,
Carribean Netherlands is equally non-existant as Dutch Carribean.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean by that. Fix the spelling and Caribbean Netherlands (mnemonic: it's named after the Carib people) comprises the BES islands.
- I have since found that the latter does have a bare category, Category:Caribbean special municipalities of the Netherlands, so I have put its history category within it.
- Just as obiter dicta, what should be done with Category:Dutch Caribbean? Split/rename the whole hierarchy to "Kingdom of the Netherlands" (including Curacao, Aruba, Sint Maarten) and "Caribbean Netherlands" for BES? After that, Dutch Caribbean could be disambiguated between Caribbean Netherlands and the historical Islands of the Netherlands Antilles. – Fayenatic London 11:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- You are right about my spelling mistake and, more importantly, right about the way to solve this problem more generally. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just as obiter dictum, should Category:Dutch Caribbean be kept just to hold a small number of subcategories and topics that are common to both BES and CAS (or ABC and SSS)? 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No,
Carribean Netherlands is equally non-existant as Dutch Carribean.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's "non-existence" yet it's a good collective term to refer to these special municipalities altogether. It's somehow like referring to an additional province although they aren't. 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 17:51, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- A category for medical schools in the Caribbean Netherlands would be too small, as there are only 2 members in the current cats for Bonaire and Saba. If there is no consensus to merging to the intermediate level Dutch Caribbean, then revert to my original merge proposal, but omit the Netherlands category in the case of Sint Maarten. – Fayenatic London 15:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
This is a list of all open CfD discussions more than seven days old. It is maintained by a bot.
April 20
Category:9th-century Indian biographers
- Propose merging Category:9th-century Indian biographers to Category:9th-century biographers and Category:9th-century Indian scholars and Category:Indian biographers
- Propose merging Category:7th-century Indian biographers to Category:7th-century biographers and Category:Indian biographersand Category:7th-century Indian scholars
- Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge for now. These two categories aren't helpful for navigation with only one person in each, and isolated from other Indian biographers centuries by a thousand years Mason ( talk) 21:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just delete the articles are already in Category:Indian male biographers, Category:9th-century Indian poets and Category:7th-century Indian poets. By the way it escapes me why biographers by nationality are split again by gender. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:"Radium" springs
- Nominator's rationale: Either WP:SHAREDNAME or if there's some more specific connection it's not explained by the articles. Needs a rename if kept. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, these springs have minimal or no radium.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Correct! Radium springs were a non-scientific marketing hook during the early 20th century radium fad. Some springs do show measurable levels of radium (e.g. Stinky Springs) but the reason for the scare quotes here is to indicate that the "radium" claims were mostly bunkum but left a toponymic legacy long after the radium health craze was over, and/or just that as part of that radium-is-healthy! trend they were marketed as radium springs at some point in spring's history, such as was the case with White Point Hot Springs. This doesn't need to be a category bc who cares but just wanted to explain the rationale for creating the category in the first place. jengod ( talk) 19:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Jengod: do you not want to convert the category to a list within the article Radium fad? – Fayenatic London 08:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Zionism by former country
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Zionism by former country to Category:Anti-Zionism by country
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously closed as merge; relisted per request.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster ( talk · he/him) 18:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- With meanwhile two subcategories it is still a redundant category layer. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:10th-century Chinese adoptees
- Nominator's rationale: Dual merge: Non defining intersection between century and adoption status Mason ( talk) 14:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:History books about Eastern Europe
- Propose upmerging Category:History books about Eastern Europe to Category:History books about Europe
- Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Indirect follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 5#Category:Eastern Europe in fiction and other precedents. There is no universally agreed definition of " Eastern Europe" (or "Western/Northern/Southern/Central/Southeastern etc. Europe"), and as such, it is usually better avoided in categorisation. There is no Category:History books about Southern Europe or Category:History books about Central Europe etc. either. The subcategories are not about "Eastern Europe" as such or specifically. The 6 articles in it are arguably about "Eastern Europe" (again depending on definition), but not just "Eastern Europe"; most of them include Poland, Hungary, Romana, Western Ukraine etc. which are sometimes also considered "Central Europe" or "Southeastern Europe". Even the last book, The Walls Came Tumbling Down: The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe, which has "Eastern Europe" in the title, is using a Cold War era definition that almost nobody uses anymore. Meanwhile, the target Category:History books about Europe also includes books such as Revolution 1989: The Fall of the Soviet Empire, so I think upmerging is the proper thing to do. NLeeuw ( talk) 09:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. The Cold War is a nice example of definitions being far from stable. Back then we just had east and west, so that Yugoslavia belonged to east and Greece to west.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hah, well, until you take the Tito-Stalin split and Finlandisation into account... NLeeuw ( talk) 20:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Caribbean people of Arab descent
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) Category:Haitian people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Egyptian descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent
- Propose merging Category:Egyptian emigrants to Haiti (1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent, Category:Immigrants to Haiti and Category:Egyptian emigrants
- Propose merging Category:Jamaican people of Arab descent (2 P) to Category:Jamaican people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Cuban people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Cuban people of Asian descent
- Nominator's rationale: merge, very few articles and for the biographies it is not clear whether the subjects are really of ethnic Arab descent. They could be Druze, Copts, Assyrians, the articles just do not tell about it. A dual merge is not always needed, the biographies are already in Category:People of Syrian descent etc. and the topic articles are already in Category:Arab diaspora in the Caribbean. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Pro-Khalistan militant outfits
- Nominator's rationale: rename, "militant outfits" is a phrase that I have never seen before in category names. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This is a confusing tree. I'm not voting anything yet, I think we need to explore the options first. The main article appears to be Groups of Khalistan movement, which is also a grammatically incorrect title. I think the parent categories provide the best clues: these are Sikh rebel or terrorist groups which seek to establish an independent Khalistan or Sikh state in Punjab through armed violence. I think "organisations" is too generic. How about "Khalistan rebel groups", "Khalistan militant groups" or "Khalistan terrorist organisations"? The articles seem to say almost every single one of them, except Sikhs for Justice, has been designated a terrorist organisation by the government of India, and sometimes other states as well. But since "terrorist" can be POV, "rebel groups" is perhaps more neutral. NLeeuw ( talk) 09:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong.
NLeeuw (
talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- No opinion about that. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong.
NLeeuw (
talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
April 18
Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias
- Propose splitting Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias to Category:Books about Bulgaria and Category:Bulgarian-language encyclopedias
- Nominator's rationale: It is not useful to lump together works from or about Bulgaria with works in the Bulgarian language that could be about different topics. Some entries might remain in the original category if they are about encyclopedias from Bulgaria. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 19:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Split per nom. Alt rename target 2 to
Category:Encyclopedias in Bulgarian per the
c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw ( talk) 00:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:28, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment That an encyclopedia was published in Bulgaria does not mean that the topic is Bulgaria. Encyclopedias tend to cover a wide variety of topics. Dimadick ( talk) 14:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's not what Dimadick said; he pointed out that country of publication and topic do not need to match, rather than that country of publication and language do not need to match.
- Incidentally, specialised English-language encyclopedias are published all over the world all the time. Within a few seconds I just found the Encyclopedia of Coastal Science (2005), published in Dordrecht, the Netherlands. Last I checked, English still isn't the dominant native language over here, but that doesn't stop anyone from publishing encyclopaedias in English on "Dutch" soil. ;) NLeeuw ( talk) 00:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms
- Nominator's rationale: This category feels
WP:COATRACKy. There is no
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians, even though those are far more prevalent. Moreover, many of the incidents here were not even defined by the participation of Muslims so inclusion into the Islam and anti-Semitism article would not always be appropriate.
User:Namiba 18:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --
GCarty (
talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators.
NLeeuw (
talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --
GCarty (
talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- This would be comparable to the existing Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia.
- Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Mandatory Palestine and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Ottoman Palestine could also be moved into this category.
- Splitting to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a
Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Middle East" is a very modern term, coined in the 20th century. "Middle East and North Africa" is even more recent. I don't think it's a good idea. If we are going to rescope by geography rather than perpetrator's religion (which is an improvement), let's stick to continents:
- That would work for me.
NLeeuw (
talk) 22:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Middle East is the modern successor term of Near East which has existed for a long time. Jews have been very prevalent specifically in the Middle East (since ancient times) and in North Africa (since many centuries) so splitting to Middle East and North Africa fits very well with Jewish history. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Splitting to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a
Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --
GCarty (
talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators.
NLeeuw (
talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --
GCarty (
talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support for upmerging. The fact that there is no equivalent
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians tree is striking; either it will have to be created, or the
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims needs to be upmerged. Given that, as far as I can see, there are no article titles identifying the religion of the perpetrators, only identifying the location and or year of the pogrom(s), nom is probably correct.
NLeeuw (
talk) 18:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @ Marcocapelle and Smasongarrison: for your consideration. NLeeuw ( talk) 18:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with consistency and do not oppose the nomination. Alternatively we may create and populate Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:39, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile GCarty proposed another alternative which (if slightly modified) I would not oppose either. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. If not, delete. "By Muslims" is simply unacceptable in a category name. Even when the majority of the perpetrators were Muslims, the name implies that their religion was a key factor in the process (rather than politics, economics, etc.). Usually this is either false or unknown. Would we name a cat about things done by Israel with "by Jews"?
Zero
talk 04:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned above, I now think the this category (which I created originally) should be replaced with Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and/or Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa. -- GCarty ( talk) 19:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- As the nominator, I suggest we merge with no objection to splitting off articles by continent for consistency's sake.-- User:Namiba 20:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)- Merge per nom and per discussion above. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 20:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge or delete per Zero ( t · c) buidhe 08:19, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support splitting to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa, as these will fit within Category:History of the Jews in the Middle East and Category:History of the Jews in North Africa. – Fayenatic London 12:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
April 15
Category:Marching
- Nominator's rationale: Purge or reparent. Are pride parades part of military traditions? There's already Category:Military marching and Category:Military marches. -- MikutoH talk! 02:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Selectively merge to Category:Parades and turn the page into a disambiguation page, per WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
April 13
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in New Caledonia
- Nominator's rationale: Broaden this category to include 19th-century churches of all denominations. There are only two pages in here, and 4 total in the entire Roman Catholic churches in New Caledonia Mason ( talk) 23:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:19th century in New Caledonia. Even this category is so small that Category:19th-century churches in New Caledonia is certainly not viable. Marcocapelle ( talk) 23:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep for categorising under the dependent territory and the continent category trees. (Otherwise combine with the counterparts for other territoires d'outre-mer, collectivités d'outre-mer, pays d'outre-mer and collectivités sui generis.) 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Both the rename and the merge proposal are keeping the content in the tree of the the dependent territory, so this is not a reason to oppose. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:22, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- In that case either keep as it is, or, less preferably, keep a big tent category for Roman Catholic churches of all collectivités d'outre-mer along with the sole pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- I countered your argument in my previous reply. Then it does not make sense to repeat your "keep" without any new argument.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- FYI to the closer this IP is probably WP:LTA/HKGW Mason ( talk) 02:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- I countered your argument in my previous reply. Then it does not make sense to repeat your "keep" without any new argument.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Justarandomamerican ( talk) Have a good day! 01:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)- Marcocapelle you didn't have a single word on the big-tent proposal on a category for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis. What's your take? (...are keeping the content in the tree of the the dependent territory... And no I don't mean generally the tree under Category:Dependent territories but Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory specifically.) 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 08:11, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory is a container category i.e. not a merge target for a category populated with articles. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- So what's your take in the big-tent proposal for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis? Such a category can be placed under
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory.
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 07:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- No one is removing the category from Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory, you're just imposing unnecessary layers that at the present do not help navigation. Mason ( talk) 23:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- So what's your take in the big-tent proposal for all collectivités d'outre-mer, the pays d'outre-mer and the collectivité sui generis? Such a category can be placed under
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings by dependent territory.
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 07:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 20:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)- @ Marcocapelle, @ Mason, any compromise here? — Qwerfjkl talk 17:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Battles involving Bengal
- Nominator's rationale: merge, battles are diffused by (former) countries and Bengal was not a country. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Battles involving Bangladesh, The battles in the category are involved Bengal region and Bangladesh is created from the a big part of the region. It would be better to rename the category and make specify it for country-wise battle category. Mehedi Abedin 09:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Military history of Bengal. IMHO this is a useful division of Category:History of Bengal. – Fayenatic London 09:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok that is a reasonable alternative, but then still the content should be added to
Category:Battles involving the Indian kingdoms too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle: it should only be a selective merge to that parent, because many of the articles are already in other subcats of that one, and I'm not sure whether the others belong there. I suggest you watch the category and merge any valid missing items yourself if the rename goes through. – Fayenatic London 15:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Marcocapelle ( talk) 15:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok that is a reasonable alternative, but then still the content should be added to
Category:Battles involving the Indian kingdoms too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
April 10
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Réunion
- Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only 4 churches total in Category:Roman Catholic churches in Réunion, so diffusion by century isn't helpful for navigation Mason ( talk) 20:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- For the last proposed destination, merge to
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France instead. Réunion is a
département et région d'outre-mer of France. The nominator gotta read more to make responsible nominations.
121.202.28.169 (
talk) 11:36, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sigh... to the closer these are probably the same IP ( Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:185.104.63.112_reported_by_User:Smasongarrison_(Result:_Blocked)) Mason ( talk) 14:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- I have mixed feelings about Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France as an alternative merge target, would certainly not strongly oppose it. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- What about, say, Hawaii or Alaska? (Or Malta should integration be achieved back in the 1950s–60s?)
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Or Kaliningrad post-1945? 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:59, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- What about, say, Hawaii or Alaska? (Or Malta should integration be achieved back in the 1950s–60s?)
61.244.93.97 (
talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep so that it may be grouped under an African parent category when there are also such by continent parents. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- If you create it then of course it is a good merge target too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as stated above; or otherwise the next preferable choice would be merger with Roman catholic church buildings in all other départements et régions d'outre-mer under the same category. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 08:00, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep this category and put it under both the French and the African hierarchy. 83.229.61.201 ( talk) 15:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- As an IP user you can vote as many times as you want but don't expect it to be taken seriously by the closer of the discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further comments on the final merge target, specifically on whether these churches belong in the "France" category, would be appreciated!
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster ( talk · he/him) 14:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)- @
Marcocapelle: I don't bother to vote more than once for this.
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty sure you did... Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Hong Kong geography warrior Mason ( talk) 22:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Marcocapelle: I don't bother to vote more than once for this.
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to multiple targets including France, and the new
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Africa. The nominator has added 2 articles in the nominated category to 2 articles in the Reunion parent to make 4, but they are the same 2 articles, so no breakdown of Reunion churches is justified. –
Fayenatic
London 21:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re the Africa category, I have added a parent
Category:19th-century churches in Africa and retrieved some contents that had been upmerged per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_23#Category:Anglican_cathedrals_by_country. @
CanonNi: please expand the hierarchy around these still-isolated categories to other continents and centuries. –
Fayenatic
London 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry but I created the categories from category requests. Try contacting the requester. Thanks. CanonNi ( talk) 11:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: Cool. Would you think it's easier to navigate and clearer to understand from the audience' point of view to have for these buildings in Réunion a subcategory under both the French and the African categories, than a four-way upmerge?
83.229.61.201 (
talk) 18:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for following this – I assume you're the same editor as the requester
59.152.195.28 (
talk ·
contribs). I used to support thin hierarchies with very specific intersections, but in the last few years there have been many precedents at CFD with consensus to merge such cases. So no, I don't recommend creating categories with only one or two members, except where we can reasonably expect that more eligible articles will be created fairly soon. –
Fayenatic
London 13:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- No I'm not. Given the number of articles in French on Wikipedia about churches in Réunion a lot more articles can reasonably be expected. 83.229.61.201 ( talk) 09:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for following this – I assume you're the same editor as the requester
59.152.195.28 (
talk ·
contribs). I used to support thin hierarchies with very specific intersections, but in the last few years there have been many precedents at CFD with consensus to merge such cases. So no, I don't recommend creating categories with only one or two members, except where we can reasonably expect that more eligible articles will be created fairly soon. –
Fayenatic
London 13:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re the Africa category, I have added a parent
Category:19th-century churches in Africa and retrieved some contents that had been upmerged per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_23#Category:Anglican_cathedrals_by_country. @
CanonNi: please expand the hierarchy around these still-isolated categories to other continents and centuries. –
Fayenatic
London 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 16:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
April 8
Category:French forts in the United States
- Propose renaming Category:French forts in the United States to Category:French forts in New France
- Nominator's rationale: This seems anachronistic. These forts were not "in the United States" when they were built and only became so later on. User:Namiba 02:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom, or perhaps simply
Category:Forts in New France.
Category:French forts in Canada may be nominated as well.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment if these forts still existed at the time Canada was established, then the category is correct. And there was also the colony of Canada, New France and colony of United Canadas, British North America -- 65.92.247.66 ( talk) 05:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment if these forts still existed at the time that the USA took over the territory, then they are correct. Such as many forts acquired in the Louisiana Purchase. Or any ruins/museums that still exist today -- 65.92.247.66 ( talk) 05:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- After the United States took them over they were no longer "French forts" and, as American forts, the articles are already in e.g. Category:Colonial forts in Tennessee. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- This is not only a proposed renaming but also an extension of scope; forts in New France that were not in provinces which became the United States will be covered as a result. 61.244.93.97 ( talk) 09:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Which is perfectly fine. New France has never been divided in an American and a Canadian part. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:56, 30 March 2024 (UTC)- Comment: To the closer: the IPs are all are probably the same IP (see: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:185.104.63.112_reported_by_User:Smasongarrison_(Result:_Blocked), and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/185.104.63.112)
- Mason ( talk) 19:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I think some people aren't reading closely what this category is meant to group, namely:
List of French forts in North America which still exist today, but further subgrouped into Canada and the United States. Which country or colony or state or polity or empire or republic etc. they were part of at the time of their construction is not the point of the "United States" part of the category name. If we're really pedantic about it, this category is about
Category:Forts constructed by the Kingdom of France in its New France colony in North America which still exist today on the territory of the United States of America despite being constructed before that territory became U.S. territory. But that's a little long, so I think the current name
Category:French forts in the United States is fine.
NLeeuw (
talk) 14:52, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- PS: An Alt Rename might be Category:Former French forts in the United States or Category:French-built forts in the United States, but I think that requires renaming the underlying main article List of French forts in North America first. NLeeuw ( talk) 15:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 17:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I have initiated a Requested move at Talk:Architecture of the United States#Requested move 16 April 2024, which is directly relevant to our discussions here. You might want to participate in it. It could resolve the question, especially the example of Category:Colonial architecture in the United States, as we might regard French forts in the United States as an example of "French colonial architecture in the United States". We've already got Category:British colonial architecture in the United States and Category:Spanish Colonial architecture in the United States. NLeeuw ( talk) 06:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Medical schools in the Caribbean
- Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Bonaire to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Bonaire and Category:Universities and colleges in Bonaire - Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Saba (island) to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Saba (island) and Category:Universities and colleges in Saba (island) - Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Sint Maarten to
Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands, Category:Medical schools in the CaribbeanCategory:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean, Category:Health in Sint Maarten and Category:Universities and colleges in Sint Maarten - Propose renaming Category:Schools of medicine in Curaçao to Category:Medical schools in Curaçao
- Propose merging
Category:Schools of medicine in Bonaire to
- Nominator's rationale: Merge categories with only one or two members to all parents. Rename the last WP:C2C. – Fayenatic London 08:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom Mason ( talk) 13:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Merge/rename per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Sint Maarten and Curaçao are not part of the Netherlands. For the BES islands merge the categories to one named Caribbean Netherlands instead so that they are subcategorized under both the Netherlands and the Caribbean categories.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 08:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I see –
Sint Maarten and
Curaçao are part of the
Kingdom of the Netherlands but not part of the Netherlands. I included the Netherlands target in the nomination because that is currently a parent in each case. Looking for categories using "Caribbean Netherlands", I only found
Category:History of the Caribbean Netherlands. What we do have is
Category:Dutch Caribbean including
Universities and colleges in the Dutch Caribbean, so that is indeed a better home for these. I have amended the nomination accordingly, to merge into a new
Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 10:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:
Medical schools in the Caribbean is much more useful than the Dutch Caribbean.
Mason (
talk) 13:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- As there is a fairly full hierarchy for Dutch Caribbean, I see no reason not to add one more, which will belong in Medical schools in the Caribbean and Medical schools in the Netherlands as well as Health in the Dutch Caribbean. – Fayenatic London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:
Medical schools in the Caribbean is much more useful than the Dutch Caribbean.
Mason (
talk) 13:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I see –
Sint Maarten and
Curaçao are part of the
Kingdom of the Netherlands but not part of the Netherlands. I included the Netherlands target in the nomination because that is currently a parent in each case. Looking for categories using "Caribbean Netherlands", I only found
Category:History of the Caribbean Netherlands. What we do have is
Category:Dutch Caribbean including
Universities and colleges in the Dutch Caribbean, so that is indeed a better home for these. I have amended the nomination accordingly, to merge into a new
Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 10:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: It doesn't sound nice to lump together the BES islands with those of the CAS islands.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 14:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- When you use terms that may not be common knowledge, please link them, e.g. BES islands and CAS islands.
- Sorry if IYHO it doesn't sound nice to use Dutch Caribbean, but setting up a separate sub-hierarchy for Caribbean Netherlands would require many perpetually small categories. The best hierarchy we have is Dutch Caribbean. –
Fayenatic
London 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: IP has a point this time,
Dutch Caribbean is a non-existent polity. It is merely a legacy term after the
Dutch Antilles were dissolved.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm no expert on the history or current politics, I'm just looking at how our categories are structured at the moment. Would you support a split of the whole Dutch Caribbean hierarchy? If so, I suggest you make a nomination to split some representative categories at the top levels. But until that has happened, the tiny sub-topic of medical schools should follow the existing hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 21:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: IP has a point this time,
Dutch Caribbean is a non-existent polity. It is merely a legacy term after the
Dutch Antilles were dissolved.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Fayenatic london: It doesn't sound nice to lump together the BES islands with those of the CAS islands.
46.229.243.187 (
talk) 14:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 19:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Well at least I still support merging, even if one of the merge targets ( Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean versus Category:Medical schools in the Dutch Caribbean) is disputable. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:44, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Category:Medical schools in Sint Maarten and keep it under Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools by country (along with Category:Medical schools in Curaçao and Category:Medical schools in Aruba). Group medical schools of the BES islands under Caribbean Netherlands and keep them under both Category:Medical schools in the Caribbean and Category:Medical schools in the Netherlands. 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 16:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- No,
Carribean Netherlands is equally non-existant as Dutch Carribean.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean by that. Fix the spelling and Caribbean Netherlands (mnemonic: it's named after the Carib people) comprises the BES islands.
- I have since found that the latter does have a bare category, Category:Caribbean special municipalities of the Netherlands, so I have put its history category within it.
- Just as obiter dicta, what should be done with Category:Dutch Caribbean? Split/rename the whole hierarchy to "Kingdom of the Netherlands" (including Curacao, Aruba, Sint Maarten) and "Caribbean Netherlands" for BES? After that, Dutch Caribbean could be disambiguated between Caribbean Netherlands and the historical Islands of the Netherlands Antilles. – Fayenatic London 11:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- You are right about my spelling mistake and, more importantly, right about the way to solve this problem more generally. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just as obiter dictum, should Category:Dutch Caribbean be kept just to hold a small number of subcategories and topics that are common to both BES and CAS (or ABC and SSS)? 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No,
Carribean Netherlands is equally non-existant as Dutch Carribean.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's "non-existence" yet it's a good collective term to refer to these special municipalities altogether. It's somehow like referring to an additional province although they aren't. 46.229.243.187 ( talk) 12:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 17:51, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- A category for medical schools in the Caribbean Netherlands would be too small, as there are only 2 members in the current cats for Bonaire and Saba. If there is no consensus to merging to the intermediate level Dutch Caribbean, then revert to my original merge proposal, but omit the Netherlands category in the case of Sint Maarten. – Fayenatic London 15:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)