- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing is insufficient Star Mississippi 03:49, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Nosheen Ehtesham
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- Nosheen Ehtesham ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 ( talk) 00:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Tennis, and Pakistan. Sportsfan 1234 ( talk) 00:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Snow Keep reckless nomination spree. Meets WP:GNG, former captain of Pakistan, [1], [2], [3], and much more in local media. 137.59.217.62 ( talk) 18:15, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- KEEP Very notable international tennis player from Pakistan. Won many contests. This article already has many reliable sources. Ngrewal1 ( talk) 23:18, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Clearly fails WP:NTENNIS, sources are user profiles and primary except few, winning contests doesn't make her notable. also fails WP:NBASIC M.Ashraf333 ( talk) 15:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. M.Ashraf333 ( talk) 10:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete fails WP:NTENNIS MumQuin ( talk) 17:32, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:32, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. For the reasons stated in the nomination. Not close, I think. BoyTheKingCanDance ( talk) 02:43, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. This can't be a Snow Keep with some editors advocating Delete.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - The subject participated and has won multiple international contests. Insight 3 ( talk) 04:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:NTENNIS. I acknowledge their importance in some circles but there's a reason the notability guidelines are like that, after all, this is Wikipedia, not Tennispedia Pear 2.0 (say hi!) 00:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Failing/meeting NTENNIS at this point means absolutely nothing. What matters is if the topic passes GNG. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Update - Surprisingly, the article doesn't tell that, but the subject has also received Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Medal of Excellance) in 2003: Daily Times, Dawn Its a state award and definitely makes recipients notable per WP:ANYBIO. Insight 3 ( talk) 11:25, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I'd rather not close this as No consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:01, 24 February 2023 (UTC)- Sorry for the 4th relisting. It was an oversight on my part. But because of the nature of the AFD daily logs, I don't believe a relisting can be undone. Liz Read! Talk! 20:48, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete The best sources are
[4] and
[5], which are trivial, and the rest are databases, listings, dead links, or irrelevant. The mentioned award is not "a well-known and significant award", so doesn't qualify for ANYBIO. The subject fails GNG and NTENNIS and does not have enough coverage for an article at this time.
Avilich (
talk)
20:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Not a "well-known" award but still has a Wiki page? Not a "significant" award but still president of the state confers and decorates it? Insight 3 ( talk) 04:17, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- How important is the award that Ehtesham won? Is it one of the highest honors in the country?
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
20:17, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- It is one of the four orders of excellence in Pakistan. Insight 3 ( talk) 04:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's apparently in the lowest tier of such awards, and the list of recipients in that page suggests not all of them are noteworthy. Also ANYBIO explicitly states that meeting one of its criteria "does not guarantee that a subject should be included", which is confirmed by the GNG and NTENNIS failure. Avilich ( talk) 06:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: My main concern is this is a BLP and I think the sourcing is not there. I don't think it clears the independent RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth test. BLPs need to be completely based on clearly independent unbaised RS about the subject. I don't believe this passes GNG, NTENNIS, or NBASIC. // Timothy :: talk 06:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep or redirect to Tennis in Pakistan. These kind of players are usually notable but due to media bias it is hard to find coverage. Pakistani media was mostly offline when she played tennis and as there is no digitalized archive of Pakistani newspaper so the best coverage we have is already mentioned above. 175.107.237.193 ( talk) 15:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- Unsubstantiated claims about media "bias" and "offline sources" don't change the fact that no SIGCOV is available, and SIGCOV is required per
WP:SPORTBASIC.
Avilich (
talk)
21:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- This is not just an excuse, but a considerable fact that Pakistani English and Urdu newspapers from the 1990s and earlier, have not been digitized. This is why we have "additional criteria" for such biographies. A player who participated in the international contests and received a state award must have had more press coverage than that we now find on internet. Insight 3 ( talk) 03:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- Unsubstantiated claims about media "bias" and "offline sources" don't change the fact that no SIGCOV is available, and SIGCOV is required per
WP:SPORTBASIC.
Avilich (
talk)
21:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing is insufficient Star Mississippi 03:49, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Nosheen Ehtesham
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Nosheen Ehtesham ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 ( talk) 00:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Tennis, and Pakistan. Sportsfan 1234 ( talk) 00:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Snow Keep reckless nomination spree. Meets WP:GNG, former captain of Pakistan, [1], [2], [3], and much more in local media. 137.59.217.62 ( talk) 18:15, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- KEEP Very notable international tennis player from Pakistan. Won many contests. This article already has many reliable sources. Ngrewal1 ( talk) 23:18, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Clearly fails WP:NTENNIS, sources are user profiles and primary except few, winning contests doesn't make her notable. also fails WP:NBASIC M.Ashraf333 ( talk) 15:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. M.Ashraf333 ( talk) 10:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete fails WP:NTENNIS MumQuin ( talk) 17:32, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:32, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. For the reasons stated in the nomination. Not close, I think. BoyTheKingCanDance ( talk) 02:43, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. This can't be a Snow Keep with some editors advocating Delete.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - The subject participated and has won multiple international contests. Insight 3 ( talk) 04:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - fails WP:NTENNIS. I acknowledge their importance in some circles but there's a reason the notability guidelines are like that, after all, this is Wikipedia, not Tennispedia Pear 2.0 (say hi!) 00:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Failing/meeting NTENNIS at this point means absolutely nothing. What matters is if the topic passes GNG. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Update - Surprisingly, the article doesn't tell that, but the subject has also received Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Medal of Excellance) in 2003: Daily Times, Dawn Its a state award and definitely makes recipients notable per WP:ANYBIO. Insight 3 ( talk) 11:25, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I'd rather not close this as No consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:01, 24 February 2023 (UTC)- Sorry for the 4th relisting. It was an oversight on my part. But because of the nature of the AFD daily logs, I don't believe a relisting can be undone. Liz Read! Talk! 20:48, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete The best sources are
[4] and
[5], which are trivial, and the rest are databases, listings, dead links, or irrelevant. The mentioned award is not "a well-known and significant award", so doesn't qualify for ANYBIO. The subject fails GNG and NTENNIS and does not have enough coverage for an article at this time.
Avilich (
talk)
20:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Not a "well-known" award but still has a Wiki page? Not a "significant" award but still president of the state confers and decorates it? Insight 3 ( talk) 04:17, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- How important is the award that Ehtesham won? Is it one of the highest honors in the country?
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
20:17, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- It is one of the four orders of excellence in Pakistan. Insight 3 ( talk) 04:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's apparently in the lowest tier of such awards, and the list of recipients in that page suggests not all of them are noteworthy. Also ANYBIO explicitly states that meeting one of its criteria "does not guarantee that a subject should be included", which is confirmed by the GNG and NTENNIS failure. Avilich ( talk) 06:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: My main concern is this is a BLP and I think the sourcing is not there. I don't think it clears the independent RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth test. BLPs need to be completely based on clearly independent unbaised RS about the subject. I don't believe this passes GNG, NTENNIS, or NBASIC. // Timothy :: talk 06:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep or redirect to Tennis in Pakistan. These kind of players are usually notable but due to media bias it is hard to find coverage. Pakistani media was mostly offline when she played tennis and as there is no digitalized archive of Pakistani newspaper so the best coverage we have is already mentioned above. 175.107.237.193 ( talk) 15:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- Unsubstantiated claims about media "bias" and "offline sources" don't change the fact that no SIGCOV is available, and SIGCOV is required per
WP:SPORTBASIC.
Avilich (
talk)
21:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- This is not just an excuse, but a considerable fact that Pakistani English and Urdu newspapers from the 1990s and earlier, have not been digitized. This is why we have "additional criteria" for such biographies. A player who participated in the international contests and received a state award must have had more press coverage than that we now find on internet. Insight 3 ( talk) 03:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- Unsubstantiated claims about media "bias" and "offline sources" don't change the fact that no SIGCOV is available, and SIGCOV is required per
WP:SPORTBASIC.
Avilich (
talk)
21:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.