This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hey, I'm no expert. You use Twinkle, right? Well, I just starting using it yesterday. I just went to the Category page, and like any other page, I went to the CSD link on the upper-right (thanks to Twinkle) and clicked it. What happens after that changes depending on what type of page it is. The rest is self-explanatory. Belasted ( talk) 01:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, as you may have seen, I used the wrong category, but it got sorted out anyway. Not a big deal. Cheers! (i'm not english, but saying "cheers" can be infectious) Belasted ( talk) 02:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you *cough*translate*cough*japanese*cough*maybe i could enlist your assistance for a few things every now and then*cough... Belasted ( talk) 02:36, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

"I'm also interested in a range of other topics, including... Japan... I'm not adding back my language boxes since I rarely had time to do timely translations, but if you need me, poke me." Plus a ninja star. I just put two and two together. And seriously, if you can do a better job than Google Translate, I would greatly appreciate just a bit of help every now and then, as I often edit video game articles. Belasted ( talk) 02:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I am concerned at this block. The user added a single external link and went on to make several good faith edits before being blocked without warning. Revert by all means, but this block was outside your authority. Following the reversion warnings by SatuSuro the user made some useful contributions to the article - none that could be described as spamming and certainly none that were vandalism. Perhaps it was an oversight, but further, you as the blocking admin have not done the courtesy of informing the user for the reason for the block. Djanga ( talk) 07:43, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

She was spamming, and the username is also a violation. That's what I blocked for, and I thought the block left the notification. Apologies on that, I'll go leave the note now. If you think s/he is capable of productive edits, s/he can request a name change but what I saw added to a number of the articles was spammy and combined with the username, I felt justified a block. Note, I'll be going to bed shortly so I may not respond until morning. Thoughts? StarM 07:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Gibb River Road is an extremely remote but well-known road in Western Australia—it is not a company and would have no significant commercial connotations that I am aware of. I would see no reason for the username to be problematic—nevertheless where have you told him that? The link concerned appears to be an ad-free community website. Note that I am not defending its removal from WP, I just find it a bit extreme to describe this as "spamming". I'd guess the user (now ex-user no doubt) was simply someone who had some local knowledge of the area. Djanga ( talk) 07:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

One reason why I have such a large number deleted edits against my user name is something like this. I try to guide the new user in AGF through the hoops - regardless of their ignorance or mistake - and wham - they are gone. Satu Suro 08:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Djanga: I know the Gibb River Road very well, and I've actually been through the region. Random external links to non-notable properties don't help at all. My guess, based on the souced info he was removing - tourism board. He's welcome to come back if he changes his username, or if he shows signs of wanting to edit productively I'm happy to unblock, though I still think the username is a violation. Ad-free community website doesn't mean it belongs here. Satu, this shouldn't affect your edits, none of his work has been deleted, just tweaked unless someone else deleted an article he created. If so, it wasn't me. I actually tried to work with what he added to Gibb River Road since maybe some of the redlinks will turn blue -- although I don't know if too many of the other stations will be notable per WP:ORG at least they're links. Thoughts? Now really bedtime here, I'll be back in the morning. StarM 08:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

"... based on the souced info he was removing ..." The ABC news story? Note that he extended the Wet from March to "Late April".

"Random external links to non-notable properties" - are you still talking about www.gibbriverroad.net? Djanga ( talk) 08:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

The point I was making was that even the most obviously spam and copyvio first edits always require an element of leeway and AGF and lack of bite - it is when they come around second time and repeated despite warnings - IMHO thats when they go - I think the block too quick - regardless how well you know the road. Just my 50 Cents - so many of those types do a few edits and are never seen again - so who knows? Satu Suro 11:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Not the GRR site, although that may violate WP:EL, so much as the promotion of one lodge with an external link which is coincidentally the same lodge that sponsors the GRR site? He adds a number of other stations -- I know some of these are quite possibly notable but to external link one of them? It doesn't seem above board. Note this same lodge has a history of being promoted through the article, see Oct '07. That said -- attn on this article is a good thing because it sorely needed it.

Do you two want me to unblock? If so, I'll do it because you've made a good case for why it "might" not be a purely promotional editor. If I unblock, I'll watch the edits but I won't be the one to re-block because I'd consider myself involved. I would warn, though, and if necessary report the same behavior because it would then be clear s/he hasn't learned. Let me know. StarM 16:35, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I hope you don't mind me making a comment on this, I've stumbled on your talk page through an article on my watchlist. Thought you may appreciate the input of a third party. It does seem like the block was "too soon", a few more friendly warnings could have done the trick before a block was imposed, after looking at the user's contributions I can see that there is a mixture of good and bad edits, but every user starts at the bottom of a learning curve don't they? jenuk1985 ( talk) 17:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Never mind at all. It seems apparent by 3:1 that I was "wrong" and while I still disagree, I'm willing to unblock. I hope I actually am wrong, but what I still see is thinly veiled spamming. As I said above, I'll keep an eye on the edits and I'll warn if necessary, but I won't be the one to re-block. THanks for your .02 StarM 18:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

No problem, I like to stick my nose in occasionally! Thanks for re-adding the AfD notice to Essex bus route 55‎ by the way :). Jenuk1985 |  Talk 18:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

NP, I watchlist transportation related AfDs and while I have no interest in bus routes I clicked throgh and saw no AfD. When I checked the talk and saw it hadn't been a speedy close, I went digging in history. Have a good day. StarM 20:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for unblocking and thanks for your contributions. All the best to you SM. Djanga ( talk) 23:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, you know where to find me if you need anything StarM 05:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Look at you, all grown up, blocking and unblocking! When did this start?-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 23:28, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

*thwap* StarM 05:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah hey if youve suffered kimberley heat you need heaps of AGF anyways either way - and hope you have never suffered the outback flies too much :) Satu Suro 05:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL, thanks. I managed OK in the Kimberley -- flies in Alice Springs and Coober Pedy about killed me though. Only place the heat really got me was a one-day trek in the Bungle Bungles. I forgot my hat! StarM 13:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Comment to keep this from archiving StarM 02:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Follow up from user

Hi all - seems like there's been a lot of discussion about the link I have been trying to include out to the new community website we have recently created www.gibbriverroad.net - Yes the site is created by us (the owners of Mt Hart) & the site hosting is paid for by 'Mt hart Wilderness Lodge'. But this site is a free platform for the promotion of all the stations along the Gibb. All the stations along the Gibb Have contributed to this site and know that it exists - they have submitted photos and information for us to use. And we are promoting their businesses and the entire area for free. All the history we have collected has been contributed by locals, from our own knowledge and from rare books. It is accurate. We are not using this site for self-gain or profit - we are not making any money from it. We do not work for any tourism board.... It is a resource we have put together (on behalf of the entire community) to help preserve the history and culture of the region we have lived in for over 40 years. As you've noticed we have contributed some information to Wikipedia to help build up the 'Gibb River Road page'. And yes.... we did delete a couple of external links to some old articles (that from our own experience of living in the area) were no longer relevant. It'd be great if the block could be removed for the link and when I post it it could stay there because it is ultimately helping inform traveller's to the region and giving accurate information on the country and helping genuinely promote the Gibb. I am only a new registered member of Wikepedia so if you tell me how I can get this block removed then please do so.....if you want me to register under a different user name I will. I am sorry for using 'gibb river road' as my wikipedia username - gibb river road is not a business we own - the site is not for commercial gain. What should I do? We need help in promoting the Gibb River Road - the area we live in and providing both travellers and locals with genuine accurate information. We noticed some information off of the 'gibbriverroad' site has been referenced on the 'glenroy beef scheme page' and their is an external link - great - so why can't the same thing happen for the gibb river road wikipedia page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.163.56.237 ( talk) 05:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: your note here, thank you. The Gibb River Road account has been unblocked for some time, and was unblocked before you went on to create the MtHart account as well. Both should be blocked as promotional and socks, and using an IP once you've been asked to not add the same links is not kosher either. You need to stick with one account but also note the fact that you have a clear Conflict of Interest when it comes to this. It does not matter if you're making money off it or not, you said, I have been trying to include out to the new community website we have recently created www.gibbriverroad.net - Yes the site is created by us (the owners of Mt Hart) & the site hosting is paid for by 'Mt hart Wilderness Lodge'. But this site is a free platform for the promotion of all the stations along the Gibb. You need to review guidelines on external links as it does not appear that the site is a reliable source if it's user submitted material. Not making money does not mean it's not spam. I'll copy this on my talk as well and leave you a note in the Gibb River Road section, since I'm not sure where you're checking. As I promised Djanga and Satusuro, I will not be the one to re-block, but you have been using sock puppets to re-add a link you've been told multiple times not to, for which someone is well entitled to block you. StarM 13:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I endorse everything that StarM said. Your site does not meet the reliable source standard required for inclusion-it may very well be accurate, but Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and seeks to publish neutral and independently published and reviewed material only. We are not here to promote anything. I enjoyed reading the website by the way and congratulate you on it. It may be fine a tourist resource, but its just not useful for our purposes. Djanga 13:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

You guys know a lot more about all of this than I do. But what I don't get is why Wikipedia allows reference to an article like the one submitted by Western Exposure on the Gibb River Road Wikipedia Page (which links to a commericial tour companies website) and the link to the kimberley travel guide on the kimberley wikipedia page (which is 'user submitted material' and VERY similar to gibbriverroad.net in content). Gibbriverroad.net is the most comprehensive resource on the Gibb River Road you will find on the net. It's not just a 'tourist resource' it's an information resource for locals and everyone else. It isn't just promoting businesses it's recording history and culture and local stories from lots of local people's knowledge and from lots of books. For ages I couldn't figure out why the link I was putting on kept getting deleted - I contributed text to the gibb river road page and added the gibbriverroad site as a reference link. I am not up with how to check messages and stuff like that yet on Wikepedia. That's the only reason I kept putting the link back on - I seriously was not aware of the warnings and then I stumbled across this page yesterday..... The fact is I can see were your coming from and I can't....But if that's the way it has to be I won't submit any more information to any wikipedia sites (especially if I can't reference the source, and if blocks are going to be put up so quickly and no allowance is going to be made for the fact that I am a new registered member and still coming to terms with the Wikepedia system) It's the general public's loss not mine. All I was trying to do was help people be more aware of true facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.163.56.237 ( talk) 03:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

You can reference a source, if the source meets reliable source guidelines and the simple fact is that user submitted content doesn't because there's no way to oversee its veracity. It's similar to why Wikipedia and IMDb are not seen as reliable sources. As for whether other links exist (which I'll go check out), please consider other stuff exists, it may be that someone hasn't seen the other link or that it might be OK for other reasons. It's the same reason why we might have an article for, for example, Microsoft but not Joe's Operating System. You can add material, but material that is likely to be challeneged needs to be sourced and as Djanga and I said above, Wikipedia does not exist to promote your site. I've done theses on the Kimberley and traveled the Gibb River Road, there are plenty of reliable sources that can be cited to verify facts without promoting your site. Does that make sense? You need to stick with one account, one that does not violate the username policy, although, as I said, I won't be the one to re-block. Thanks for your input. StarM 03:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I think there's a huge difference between 'promoting a site' and 'adding a link to a site' which provides additional relevant information on a topic. I can promote the site through 1000 different sources. I wasn't using wikepedia to 'promote the site', but rather to act as an external link which people can click on to view more information on the topic and expand upon the information already on Wikepedia (some of which I added). Most of the content on gibbriverroad.net is referenced from history books, & wildlife books, as well as created from the knowledge of informed locals. Writing a thesis on the Kimberley and travelling the Gibb is completely different to living in the area for 40 years, having access to rare resources (books,local knowledge, and an indepth understanding of the country). All the best to you, I am not going to argue the point any further, I've got more important things to do than try and prove the validity of a link to a site which could ultimately be beneficial to Wikepeida readers. Your reasoning is beyound me, especially when links to other sites exist that are 'user submitted material', but then I don't know the ins and outs of Wikepedia (and to be quite honest if there is this much buerocracy involved I don't want to). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.163.56.237 ( talk) 05:44, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggest you reference those books and resources which are reliable sources and meet the guidelines for references and external links. You clearly have a conflict of interest with regard to this site StarM 02:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Freerangefrog has now provided convincing evidence this article is a clearcut hoax. You declined the A7 speedy he requested, but I wonder if you are willing to reconsider it and delete under G3 instead. - Mgm| ^(talk) 18:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I have to apologize to Star Mississippi here. When I found this on NPP I couldn't believe that someone would go to that much trouble to create such a transparently weak hoax, so to me the A7 was clear cut (although technically wrong in that there was an assertion to notability, hoaxy and all). Obviously we lack the technology that would allow you guys to read my thoughts at this point. And the terse WP:HOAX assertion on the later PROD was more of the same. I'll be more specific in the future, even if I'm in the middle of those proverbial facepalm moments I seem to get so much on NPP :) § FreeRangeFrog 05:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

No worries, I admit I don't read in huge depth when I'm cleaning a CSD. I think hoaxes need to be clear i.e. Jimbo was the first man on the moon to be G3 -- otherwise claims of notability pass A7 and whether or not they're verifiable or notable are questions for PROD or AfD, if that makes sense. Not sure that's policy or my interpretation of same, but I think it's close. Apologies if my explanation was terse, but once Mgm left me the note abovem it was clearer. StarM 02:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The above was protected because (as Stifle said) a spammy fanblurb "article" under that name had twice been created by s.p.a. User:Scofosho5. -- Orange Mike | Talk 14:03, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you give me the last version of the Virginia Inland Sailing Association article before it was deleted? I don't know if I can address the reasons for the delete, but I'd like to have a look at it if possible. I definitely won't recreate it without talking to you first. Thanks. — BozoTheScary ( talk) 17:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Here you go, User:BozoTheScary/Virginia Inland Sailing Association although I think you'll find you're essentially starting over. :) Feel free to poke me with any questions StarM 02:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Starting over indeed! :) Well, thanks anyway. — BozoTheScary ( talk) 13:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

And thanks for the clean up to escape the categories, totaly forgot to do that when I userfied. Enjoy! StarM 01:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The LA Stains were
to our young ears noteworthy;
scribes wrote of this band

In the case of the LA Stains deletion I've started to fish around for original articles. Not sure how quickly this will happen as old boxes of LA Times clippings and fanzines are hard for me to dig out these days. I can however assure you that The Stains were a very well-known and popular band here on the early punk scene. They were on the bill with their friends Black Flag regularly and I think they were part of at least one show that concluded with a major LAPD riot.

Steve humann ( talk) 16:52, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

don't worry about the extra messages, I cleaned them up. However, I'm unable to find the article you're referencing. Can you please give me a link? Thank you StarM 03:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

He's referring to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Stains (Los Angeles). I've given him instructions on asking you to userfy it for him, as well as a couple of possible sources to add. -- IllaZilla ( talk) 03:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

You were the second Twinkle user today who ended up messing up an AfD nomination (as far as I can tell). Since I am not a twinkle user, maybe you should report this bug. -- Blanchardb - ^{Me• MyEars• MyMouth}- timed 01:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

A long time ago, under your old username, we had an exchange about the Rockland County NRHP list and some of the entries. I mentioned that I just then photographed all the Sloatsburg entries.

Well, they are finally articles:

• Old Sloatsburg Cemetery
• Jacob Sloat House
• Sloat House
• Sloat's Dam and Mill Pond

Enjoy! (I've gotten a lot more Rockland pics since then, too). Daniel Case ( talk) 05:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey Cari! I just saw your tag of this article as a copy of something previously deleted; according to an admin friend the deleted article is significantly different to the one you tagged. Can you confirm? Ironholds ( talk) 16:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Hiya. I'm not sure as I can't get the old one to come up at all. Im not sure if it's been oversighted or what, but I get an error when I try to see the deleted revisions. I agree with your A7 though, hoping to avoid going *back* to AfD StarM 18:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I don't think its been oversighted (or the other admin wouldn't have been able to see it) but mediawiki has been a bit finicky recently Ironholds ( talk) 18:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

and now it's gone. Yay. The creator today flooded my watchlist with itty bitty changes. One of these days I'll get caught up :) StarM 18:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

The page wasn't semi-protected, and the accounts hadn't been autoconfirmed, so full protection is a bit extreme. I realise it's a simple misunderstanding, but could you downgrade the protection on J.delanoy's talk page to semi please so that normal editors may use his talk page while these throw away accounts can't? Cheers, Nev1 ( talk) 00:49, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

He beat me to it. SOrry was off wiki for a bit. I thought it was already semi'ed -- read history wrong. My apologies. Been watching stupid vandalism across my watchlist today StarM 01:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I have been working on a revised article for The Arrogant Sons of Bitches, and was wondering if you might unprotect it for me.

• Here is the old text: [1]
• Here is the new text: User:MakeBelieveMonster/The Arrogant Sons of Bitches

I agree that the old article was promotional, unsourced, and just sloppy. And people kept trying to re-create the deleted text. I hope the new version is sufficiently cleaned up and cited! Here is why the article is notable:

• Frontman Jeff Rosenstock went on to found Quote Unquote Records and Bomb the Music Industry!
• The band has been the subject of independent published works as are sourced.

MakeBelieveMonster ( talk) 22:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi MBM, wow you've done a great job with it. I think it's OK to re-create and I thnk the userspace draft you created was a good idea. I support recreation, however because it was deleted multiple times, I've brought it to deletion review here, where you're welcome to comment. Any questions, please let me know. Thanks! StarM 01:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks much! MakeBelieveMonster ( talk) 03:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

you're welcome! StarM 12:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

No worries, glad to help. That template can indeed be a pain at times. – Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 03:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Nah, not at all; I've had plenty of trouble with it in the past. I'll try to tinker with it this afternoon. – Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 13:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Any time :) (FWIW, every county in the UK has its own geo-stub type BTW). Grutness... wha? 08:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Cheers. My health's slowly coming right - just a case of staying off the spicy foods and alcohol for a few months - and away from stress if possible - and remembering to the little tablets regularly. I'm back to about 90% health. Grutness... wha? 21:52, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying there was no non-infringing content on the page worth saving and the history was unsalvageably corrupted and no earlier versions without infringement could be retained. I don’t know because I have never read the page or see any discussion anywhere. Saying it is “a blatant copyright infringement” is not really discussion. I think it's clear that there should be a page for the TransAmerica Trail, but have no desire to write it myself. Was it so bad?-- Another-sailor ( talk) 12:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

The article, as well as the others created by the same two editors were 100% copyvios of this page and the other similarly named pages. There were no non-copyvio versions to revert to as they were apparently created by the company and only editing was format. In addition a related AfD is showing no evidence of reliable sourcing existing to establish notability. StarM 00:39, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

• As someone else already noted on my talk page, I didn't delete the article. I userfied it. See User:Khan99/Hip Hop culture and Islam. = Mgm| ^(talk) 08:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Did you see this: User_talk:MBisanz#Edit_conflict_on_Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FBass_player? Belasted ( talk) 03:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

While I'm talking to you, I have a question. Remember me? We talked a while back about... something, I don't remember. Maybe I could find the conversation if I could have my talkpage archives on my talkpage. I just started archiving my talkpage using MiszaBot, just like you. But I can't figure out how to have the little box on the top right part of the page with the monthly sections in it. I can get the box there, but not with the actual links to the past archives. Get it? Can you help me? Thanks. Belasted ( talk) 03:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I do remember you. I can't really explain how to make the links - you can either copy my code (subbing your own name in for mine) or hope that one of my talk page stalkers who can explain archives to clearly explain because I think I copied mine from someone else. here is our discussion, by the way. Off to read the link StarM 01:01, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I copied your code, made a couple of adjustments, and it worked out. But if you were curious as to why I wanted you to see the page I linked up above, it's because you re-closed the AfD discussion after it was re-opened by the admin in the the conversation that is linked. Anyway, it's not a big deal, and the issue seems to be resolved now. Belasted ( talk) 02:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Ahh gotcha. Not so worried because all I did was close the discussion. The re-direct had already happened so the discussion was, in many senses, a formality. If someone wants me to re-open the AfD, I will. Glad copying the code worked for you StarM 02:35, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday March 29th, Columbia University area Last: 01/18/2009 This box: view •  talk •

In the afternoon, we will hold a session dedicated to meta:Wikimedia New York City activities, sign official incorporation papers for the chapter, review recent projects like Wikipedia Loves Art and upcoming projects like Wikipedia at the Library, and hold salon-style group discussions on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects (see the January meeting's minutes).

In the evening, we'll share dinner and chat at a local restaurant, and generally enjoy ourselves and kick back.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Invite list.

To keep up-to-date on local events, you can also join our mailing list.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot ( talk) 20:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I've already posted at WP:MUSEUMS, but if you don't spot it, would you be able to have a look at Bruce Castle's peer review? (Despite the name, it is a museum!) As I say there, this is a somewhat unusual article in that, while as far as I know it covers the subject as comprehensively (within reason) as possible, there are large gaps where sources don't exist, so ideally I'd like any issues that can be fixed, fixed before it goes to any potential FAC. Thanks! –  iridescent 17:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to get to it ASAP. Am traveling on business this weekend so time even in shorter supply than normal. Just scanned it and it seems an interesting article StarM 03:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

You're a, well, star. No rush at all, PR moves at an even more glacial pace than FAC. –  iride scent 13:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Please refer to this screenshot of OAG. Eram Air never used to have an IATA code, but it (YE) appears to have recently been issued to them. There was of course an airline called Yanda Airlines, but it was Australian, and there has been no such Iranian airline of this name. Hence why it is deleted, rather than redirected, etc. The sources mentioned in the AfD by yourself are of course not RS, as you mentioned, and the other sources I am sure you will introduce are also prob not RS. OAG is a utility which lists flights between cities; and the information is obtained by compiling scheduling information from the airlines, and the codes are supplied by IATA/ICAO. The ICAO codes and callsigns are available in an ICAO document -- ICAO 8585, and this is regularly updated. IATA codes are available via the Airline Coding Directory; but at US$3,500 per year for mere codes, it's unfeasible to purchase it to verify, but given that OAG receives their information from IATA, this is basic confirm that YE is Eram Air, not Yanda Airlines. Just having a look at OAG, I found this which states the code/airline was added to their flight schedule databases on between 3 December 07 and 3 January 08. Could you possibly provide the sources you were going to present, because I will ask for them to be blacklisted, as they are not reliable, and are general commercial spammy websites (such as farecompare.com). -- Russavia ^Dialogue 04:26, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know for sure that it's a flying airline but the website I found seemed to show service between Tehran from Yanda Airlines not a code, the airline by name. They're the ones I linked in the AfD as well as this one. The sources you found didn't show that the airline never existed, I don't think this was a valid speedy delete and there's no problem with the discussion being allowed to run. While what I found is not enough to build an article, it may be enough to establish the existence of the airline. If Farsi editors could find more, it would help. I don't necessarily think the article is going to be kept but it wasn'tnecessary to end it early with only you, the nom, pushing for delete and others uncertain. I think with more time we could possibly find sources and what's wrong with that? Worse comes to worse it's deleted after five days. If you really think it necessary, I'll take it to DRV, but I hope that's not necessary. StarM 05:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Refer to Air Cambodia for an example. This type of rubbish is permitted to stay on WP, simply because there are sources out there, and it doesn't matter if the sources are wrong. I'm not having a go at you here, but rather the media, who couldn't tell Air China from China Airlines. You mentioned a flight on 26 March, here is the screenshot from OAG, which gives the name of the airline, along with its code. In the airline industry flights are referred to as YE1222, rather than Eram Airlines 1222. Bringing it back the flightstats website, OAG confirms that YJ belongs to AMC Airlines since 2008. Flightstats states that YJ belongs to "National Airlines" of South Africa; an airline which ceased operations in 2004; and along with this the logo belongs to National Airways Corporation, the domestic airline of New Zealand (and now part of Air New Zealand). The same thing is for code "NS" -- OAG correctly attributes this as belonging to "Northeastern Airlines" -- Flightstats states that it belongs to Caucasus Airlines; an airline which ceased operations 5 years ago. IATA codes are recycled as a matter of business, and this can cause some confusion, and it pisses me off more than you can imagine that we are allowing sites which are basically hobbyist site (Flightstats) to be used for inclusion of material into an encyclopaedia. As the only thing which confirmed the existence of an Iranian "Yanda Airlines" was an unreliable website, and nothing past a directory link, the delete close was the correct course of action. -- Russavia ^Dialogue 05:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

the delete close was the correct course of action it may well be, but not so soon after listing and not when, at the time, you were the only one advocating immediate deletion. Others were saying let's see what's available. As it's not an attack page or a BLP issue, there's no harm in letting it run a few more days in case something turns up. Thanks StarM 13:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, I have reopened the AfD, so please move the arguments there. I have added the {{ hoax}} template to the article to worn potential readers that the info is not reliable Alex Bakharev ( talk) 05:40, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Star Mississippi has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Star Mississippi's day! For your commendable work in AFD and WP:MUSEUMS, enjoy being the Star of the day, Star Mississippi! Cheers, bibliomaniac 1 5 00:09, 28 March 2009 (UTC) If you'd like to show off your awesomeness, you can use this userbox.

Long time no speak. Whats new? -- Endless dan and his problem 19:06, 28 March 2009 (UTC)