The Original Barnstar | |
For your recent edits to Ibn Wahshiyya. Thank you for bringing a scholarly perspective based on recent research to the article! Cerebellum ( talk) 11:21, 24 January 2021 (UTC) |
Apaugasma, you seem to know what you're talking about! I'm working on Ibn Wahshiyya's Nabataean Agriculture right now, so if you ever have a moment to spare would you mind reading through it and letting me know what you think? I know the prose is rough, I need to clean it up, but I’m more worried about any errors of fact or interpretation. Until I saw your edit summary I didn’t know that Nasr was a fringe author, I’ll remove my citation to him but there are probably other mistakes lurking! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Can I ask whether you know much about the origins and development of the Greek four-stage colour-coded alchemical process ending with iosis (rubedo, rubefaction) via xanthosis, etc.? It was this connection, with the end product being purple and purple being the highest colour, indicating the (spiritual) purity of the rarefied material and somehow conceiving of purple as equal or greater than gold, or rubefaction as the final purifying stage in the production of "gold", that I am especially interested in. Reference was made to some Leiden papyri in Liz James's Light and Colour in Byzantine Art and some papers cited therein, but I'd like to know more about colour in the beginnings of alchemy and the first millennium of alchemy in the Greek East. Most work seems to favour the Arabic or Latin traditions of later centuries. GPinkerton ( talk) 17:53, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Thrice-thanks! that's a magnificently more-than-adequate answer! I am very grateful! It is of note that many of the patristic authors refer to dyeing with purple as the basis of various metaphors for both positive and negative (but always indelible) characteristics, doubtless referring to Eclogue 4 (if I remember right) of Vergil and the pun on dyeing/baptism (βάπτω). One of the pseudepigrapha mentions a purple light emanation during the Harrowing of Hell. I'm working on this for my own research on coloured stones in the art of the relevant period. While I know the authors were often concerned with the σμαράγδας (perhaps represented in architecture with verde antico) but do you know of any mentions of porphyry (small p) in the esoterica of any language? GPinkerton ( talk) 01:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Citations
|
---|
|
The Rosetta Barnstar | |
For deciphering Wikipedia's alchemical morass in various language traditions; a magnum opus! GPinkerton ( talk) 14:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC) |
Hi! Wandered here from the ANI on Yaakov and was intrigued by your explanation of your username. Wondered if, based on your knowledge of greek, you might be able to decipher the last sentence of the lede at Sinemorets to clarify what the Greek name was? Trying to find some better history on this place as the current name is fairly new and thought having the correct Greek transliteration might help. Thanks either way. StarM 00:50, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Just to clarify that I don't actually disagree with the content of what you wrote, just the division between the lead and the body of the article. Achar Sva ( talk) 07:41, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make Wikipedia better. You're the type of person that makes this site better. Thank you, friend! Much appreciate your help with the article. Rusdo ( talk) 04:15, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma,
A few questions for you about the Apollonius of Tyana article.
1. You put the Francis quote from the sources section to the historical facts section. May I ask why? Francis is specifically discussing the sources involved. This quote is a better fit in the sources section IMHO.
2. I checked the source for this quote: "This led to controversy, as critics believed Gibbon was alluding to Jesus being a fanatic." It was simply not there in the B.W. Young article. Unless I miss something, I think this is out of place.
3. "Hilton Hotema compared Apollonius to Jesus by noting that there is much historical data surrounding the life of the Tyanean, but that Jesus is unknown outside of the New Testament." This is well outside mainstream scholarship and demonstrably false. If this quote is included, a note should be made regarding this. There is ample evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament and virtually no early evidence for Apollonius, as demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.
Thank you. Rusdo ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
It would probably be a good idea for you to take a break from my talk page because you seem to have run out of ammo. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 21:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma! First off, thanks for the warm welcome and for the balanced edits :-). One request, though: I think "[...] was able to identify the phonetic value of a few Egyptian hieroglyphs" gives the wrong impression. This suggests that Ibn Washiyya was following the correct method like an early Young / Champollion, as per Dr. El Daly's claims. I would be very excited if that were true, but looking e.g. at the picture shown with the article (from Dr. El Daly's presentation), it clearly is not:
Going through the list from the upper left, 𓊰 is not a uniconsonantal sign at all, certainly not "aleph", 𓏌𓏤 is /nw/ + determinative stroke, not "y", 𓏏 𓏥 is /t/ + plural strokes and not "q", 𓉻 is ayn+aleph (the word "great"), not "g", the next character 𓏌 is /nw/ again, now interpreted as "b", 𓊹𓊹 "two gods" (nTr.wy?) is certainly not "k" and so forth ... I could go on for the rest of the chart: it is not just that the phonetic values are misidentified but that word signs are interpreted as phonetics and the author clearly did not even understand which signs belong together. This impression is confirmed by a quick glance through the translation of the work linked to in the article: whole groups of glyphs are given allegorical translations "if a man was poisoned they would write it with XYZ glyphs" with no basis in the actual text displayed. So, if any glyphs were identified correctly I would ascribe that to mere chance (sadly, again - if the work had been done 1,000 years ago, I would be extremely excited).
I think the reason why this never gets called out is because the number of reporters that can read Hieroglyphs and Arabic is vanishingly small if not zero. I would give Ibn Washiyya credit for trying and for his assumption that signs could be read phonetically (rather than just allegorically / as ideographs) - in itself an important step. But "correctly identified some signs" gives the wrong impression IMHO, especially since this has been hyped so much in the media and there has been no critical reporting whatsoever (outside of specialist circles). Can we find a better way to phrase this? I struggled, that's why I took the identification part out completely in the lead section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikuChan39 ( talk • contribs) 12:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Please stop your disruptive editing.
If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Reverting the deletion of material added by a blocked sock is...well, it's about the worst explanation one can give. Drmies ( talk) 01:14, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
You appear to be an extremely knowledgeable person to me. Will come to visit you from time to time to discuss few things or to get some book recommendations on the history of philosophy, religion and science if you don't mind. I have started reading Kevin Van Bladel's "The Arabic Hermes: From Pagan Sage to Prophet of Science." Interesting study. But the book I suppose suffers from some Hellenocentric biases. I don't know. That is just an opinion. I haven't even finished the book yet. Have you come across this term before? I mean, Hellenocentrism? I suppose you have. The article is not an well developed one. Need more references to enrich that entry. Anyways, Bladels' book is great. Learning many things from it. Wanted to let you know that I came to know of this book from one of your comments in a talk page. And yes, pardon my English, I am not a native speaker. Best wishes for you. Mosesheron ( talk) 17:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
It was really enlightening. However, do you believe that modern historians have genuinely attempted, or are still attempting, to reconstruct the cultural context in which ancient Greece flourished, with all of its knowledge of philosophy, theology, and so on? Was it that difficult, given the fact that they have “successfully reconstructed" many aspects of history that were almost unknown to us? I'm sure you've considered the time period between the so-called first philosopher of ancient Greece, Thales, and the "all-knowing" Aristotle, in whose figure we see the culmination of nearly all ancient knowledge? How could they achieve so many things within such a short period of time? What are the real sources of pre-Socratic philosophy, theology, and so on? Did it all begin with them? If the answer is no, then, who were their real inspirations? People like Martin Bernal et al might well be wrong in their theses, but what really have the mainstream historians taught us about this aspect of intellectual history? I've been looking for a few works on the history of ancient philosophy, theology, sciences, and other subjects that explore the origins and sources of pre-Socratic philosophy in depth, but to my surprise, I have found none. Now that maybe because I am not an expert in the filed or a student of the history of philosophy and sciences like you. But again why are they so scarce if they really exist, if such works exist at all? Most books or journal papers I read start with the pre-Socratics, with an introduction that largely rejects rather than recognizes the contributions or contacts with other civilizations in a very smart way. They frequently spare a few lines to demonstrate how primitive and mythological other civilizations were, while claiming that the Greeks were unique and original in such and such ways. I made a comment on the Talk Page of the pre-Socratic philosophy about its sources and origin few months ago, which two devoted editors took very seriously. What do we come know about its origin and history from that page now? The straightforward answer is nothing. I am not of course undermining their efforts. Perhaps they did their best. Or perhaps they thought such little description was sufficient for it. Would you kindly recommend me some works that discuss the origins and sources of pre-Socratic philosophy in depth? Lastly, I thank you for your comment. It offers some ideas that our academics frequently fail to express. Best wishes. Mosesheron ( talk) 17:13, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
pseudo-historicaround here), so that's why you're not finding such. I don't know any real good reference for pre-Greek science (i.e., Babylonian and ancient Egyptian science), but I highly recommend checking the first chapter of Lindberg, David C. (2008). The Beginnings of Western Science: The European Scientific Tradition in Philosophical, Religious, and Institutional Context, 600 B.C. to A.D. 1450 (2d ed.). University of Chicago Press., which probably refers to some good sources on this in the bibliography (actually, the whole book is worth reading in itself, as it is the standard introduction to the history of science west of India). For Presocratic philosophy, there's Cherniss, Harold F. (1935). Aristotle's Criticism of Presocratic Philosophy. New York: Octagon Books., which is of course outdated in many ways, but remains the go-to classic when it comes to source criticism with regard to the Presocratics. For Presocratic philosophy itself, there are the well-known standard introductory works by scholars such as W. K. C. Guthrie and Jonathan Barnes (especially Guthrie is still very often cited), but I suspect you will find a much more up-to-date historiographical approach (as well as some interesting references) in Laks, André; Most, Glenn W. (2018). The Concept of Presocratic Philosophy: Its Origin, Development, and Significance. Princeton University Press. There's much more where that came from, so please feel free to ask.
Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Talk:Shem HaMephorash. Such edits are disruptive, and may appear to other editors to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Skyerise ( talk) 11:06, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Apaugasma:, I was wondering if you'd like to weigh in on a discussion of sources over at Empty tomb. The question is over the validity of an assumption narrative lying at the heart of the empty tomb story in Mark. It seems to me that according to the source in question, this is problematic and probably not a mainstream or even a significant minority view. I know you appreciate taking sources seriously and figuring out what they're saying. I'd love to have your take. Rusdo ( talk) 14:05, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you Apaugasma for informing the mistake in my draft article. I moved the page title of the article 'Paracelsus' to Philips Paracelsus. It will be more informative are easy to search. Regards, Hrishikesh Namboothiri V VNHRISHIKESH ( talk) 06:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for you comments on my talk page. I see that you have restored some of the "see also" link I removed, but /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#%22See_also%22_section says that the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body - and those link are already in the article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Inf-in MD ( talk • contribs) 23:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
as a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body.But it also says that
whether a link belongs in the "See also" section is ultimately a matter of editorial judgment and common sense.It seems to me that in many cases, these two recommendations are in conflict.
The guideline says "As a general rule", so if a link is particularly important and helpful to the reader, it can be repeated in See also. But if this [sc. this guideline] is removed entirely, people will add whatever links they want to draw attention to.
The point of the guideline is to make sure the See also section doesn't get too long, so we're supposed to use it sparingly. If something really is an excellent link to repeat, then you can do it. Note that editors may differ in their interpretion of "excellent", of course. We used to have an editor who would go around removing See alsos, no matter how helpful. He would either incorporate them into the text or remove them. That was a nuisance, but I've not seen anyone do that in a systematic way for years.
The way I see it, the links in the article body are most often associated with some sort of context or description. The links in the "See also" section are most often not. [...] So, the rule prevents the section from becoming a list of indiscriminate items.
Even if this rule is lifted, I will continue removing those "See also" links that I had removed in the past, only this time I will cite WP:REPEATLINK. And there is a reason to it too: I have never removed a link from "See also" whose existence improved the article despite this "rule". MOS is a guideline and I treat it that way.
[...] If the restriction is lifted, then I don't see a natural limitation. In a biographical article that describes a person's associations with many other people over decades, all of them wikilinked, what would keep others from thinking "Hey, he worked with X, we should suggest to readers that they also see X", with the "see also" section ultimately containing dozens of links and thereby rendering the section fairly useless as a means of focus on especially related topics.
Wikipedia has no firm rules? It's a rule in itself here that "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." (see Wikipedia:Ignore all rules). You say that 1970 FIFA World Cup Final should not repeat the link to Pelé in the See also section, even though it's very important and relevant to the article. But regardless of rules, do you personally believe that the See also section of that article is better without a link to Pelé? This you should always do, to ask the one question: Does it make Wikipedia better or not? To quote:
Answer that question first, then pick whatever policy, guideline, essay, or argument supports the answer. Don't flip the order. If you look at a policy page first, then decide that something is good/bad because that's the conclusion of the policy, you forgot to ask yourself the one question. And you could very well end up supporting an outcome which does not make Wikipedia better.So I would like you to ask the one question with regard to the links in The Kybalion and Emerald Tablet. If you truly believe that Wikipedia is better without repeating them, then I won't argue over that. Thanks again for your attention! Sincerely, ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 18:12, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
I appreciate you spending time on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hitchens's razor, my AN/I concern, and my talk page a while back when you helped me to understand policy better. You seem very professional and kind, and I appreciate that you have pointed out my mistakes in a professional and kind way. MarshallKe ( talk) 13:13, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
I have long appreciated your good edits on a number of articles, so: thank you! You are careful and knowledgeable, you respect good scholarship, and you tactfully revert inappropriate edits. If you make changes to Pseudo-Democritus, please read Martelli first. I think his monograph on the subject concludes about as much as is reasonable to conclude from the available sources, and successfully dates this writer's work to ca. 60 AD. I know Martelli, and can vouch for his conscientious professional scholarship. Ajrocke ( talk) 17:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Apaugasma! Thank you very much for your kindness for how to contribute to Wikipedia. It was the first edit of Wikipedia for me, and I seem to have made a mistake, editing it. If you made a correction for my edit, I thank you so much! I have some things to do now, and would like to read about Pneuma (Stoic) and Stoic Physics later. I will not discuss it on the talk pages. Take care! Ruby2021 ( talk) 16:16, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
The term "militant atheist" isn't used to refer to a biographical subject anywhere on Wikipedia. Should I assume that you already know this? The term "militant atheist" was used by members of WikiProject Conservatism to attack atheists. Viriditas ( talk) 20:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Whatever happened to your additions to this article? Will they see the light of day? Skyerise ( talk) 18:29, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Can you please make the article Draft:Reign of Love out from draft? I think name of article must change to Velayate-e-Eshgh. Thanks Nikan Faze ( talk) 14:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Can you please help me and say what can I do for the article Draft:List of Shahbanus of Persia? Nikan Faze ( talk) 14:41, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
If you are interested, can you do the same thing you did for Abu Lu'lu'a for Abu Amra Kaysan too? I think this article must to expand. thanks. Nikan Faze ( talk) 12:57, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Greetings,
Requesting your visit to article Draft:Aurats (word) and help expand the same if it interests you.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' ( talk) 03:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma, I wanted to reach out here since I just closed the discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 28#Shurafa committee. I also deleted the uppercase variant that you identified. I see this as an acceptable deletion per WP:NOTBURO. When closing RfDs, I try to consider whether the heart of the discussion is really a specific redirect or a more general idea. In this case, I saw the core question as "Should this phrase redirect to this page?" The answer was no, so requiring a separate discussion for the variant would be overly bureaucratic. In the future, you can list such variants in the same discussion. I expect editors would not object to that even if you don't spot the variants immediately.
One caveat is for situations where capitalization variants redirect to different places. This is not necessarily wrong, but that sort of situation comes up at RfD periodically, usually with an eye to bringing the redirects into sync. So if Shurafa Committee had redirected to a different page, I would not have taken action, leaving it instead to a separate discussion. Hope this explanation is helpful. -- BDD ( talk) 15:47, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Hey Apaugasma,
I have been impressed by your survey of scholarly works on Islam-related articles. I have already pinged you on some discussions over the past month and want to continue to do so. Is it ok if I do? I don't consider this canvassing as I consider you a fairly neutral editor (and in fact you've opposed my proposal in this discussion). I ping you because you provide insight from usually a different angle than how I see things. VR talk 04:37, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
I think you can revert your previous edit on Indian religions. Because the grammar was error. Indian religions are not those 4. Those 4 are major. It includes so many folklores and faiths. Those are mentioned in the article aswell. Wholepak ( talk) 15:07, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. When one is ranting into the void, this is the response one is hoping for, but doesn't really expect. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:07, 16 October 2021 (UTC) |
Hey,
What, in your opinion, is the difference between history and legends? From what I understand, a legend is a folk tale and its historicity can either be:
From my reading, I'm seeing the legends of
Abadir falling into the third category. It seems that historians agree Abadir existed; they doubt some of the more exaggerated tales surrounding him, but consider other stories of him believable enough to mention. For example, A Yemeni Sufi called Abadir migrated to Harar after the conversion and established Islamic schools there. His influence was important and today many Hararis sons of Abadir.
The same source then goes on to mention Abadir domesticating hyenas (which sounds mythical to me).
[3]
But as a general question, though, doesn't history include a lot of folk tales and hearsay? VR talk 16:11, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm writing this here, per WP:NOTFORUM. Kecia Ali's Marriage and Slavery in Early Islam argues that there were strong parallels between wives and concubines. Early literature used the word milk (meaning ownership) to describe a man's dominion over both his wife and his concubine. She compares marriage (where a man pays mahr) to purchase of a concubine (where a man pays her price). She compares husband talaq-ing (ie divorcing) his wife to a man freeing ahis concubine. She then says Muslims weren't the only ones who thought like that, and quotes Norman Cantor saying "roughly one quarter of any major society in antiquity were human chattels— someone’s property." She discusses the work CHATTEL OR PERSON? THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE MISHNAH as means of comparison to Judaism. And then there's this source which says concubinage was closer to marriage than to domestic slavery.
All this is not to deny the horrible treatment concubines faced as you indicate here. But did wives in the medieval Muslim world fare significant better? Forced marriage and marital rape were historically common. So do we recognize the plight of Muslim wives by moving marriage in Islam to marriage and sexual slavery in Islam? Of course not. In fact, when one ponders on the plights of a medieval wife, the term "concubine" does not seem nice at all. Concubine denotes a woman inferior to a wife. Just as the life of a wife depended on the wealth and status of her husband, so did the life of a concubine. VR talk 02:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello , i want to know how to create an English version of this article ar:بنو العنبر. CorrectionKSA ( talk) 03:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Content in this edit is translated from the existing Arabic Wikipedia article at [[:ar:بنو العنبر]]; see its history for attribution.
Hi thank you for your concern about my last edit Samaale, but i would like to share with you about the Samaale.
Samaale is a ancestor of Somali people and where Somali name come from, Samale brother is Sab, and their father is Hiil, and the grand grandfather is Abroone. Samaale Hiil Abroone you can confirm any somali.
Samaale has 9 children, Dir and Hawiye are one they are brothers in one father and called irir Samaale, ( you can comfirm to anyone) Gardheere Samaale is the frist born or oldest Samaale children, Mayle Samaale, Maqarre Samaale, Xarmalle Samaale, Yahabur Samaale, (not Yakabur, there is no Yakabur word in Somali language, if you see Yakabur in the book mybe there is error typing) Karure Samaale, Hariire Samaale and more,
I hope you understand when i edit i just want to proof my Samaale, not just to write what i wanr, if you are the one who can only edit and yoy are the owner of this article its ok i won't edit agaon,. Doorwaaq ( talk) 13:07, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
So the ANI thread is closed! Good riddance. But a few comments to continue here.
regarding go write on the blackboard 1000 times: I would like you to stop for a moment and reflect on how you would feel when other editors would address you this way. That's not cool.
I'm surprised that you took offense. If someone wrote that to me, I would respond in kind, but I wouldn't hold it against the person. Maybe I'm a jaded old fart who has been around WP for too long, but this sort of banter was historically par for the course. I think you know that I hold you in esteem and although I disagree strenuously with some of your positions and may phrase my disagreements in hyperbolic fashion, it's kinda a style thing. If you don't like that repartee, I apologize. I thought we were on better terms perhaps.
Your other point is an interesting one. You are right that there is a presumption that off-wiki organizing is a no-good-very-bad-thing. I want us to consider whether this is the correct presumption. I think that, in fact, this is only a problem when it results in a circumvention of the other WP:PAGs at issue. If such off-wiki coordination results in an improvement in the encyclopedia -- it is a good thing.
Now the rejoinder to that argument is that some people sometimes think they're improving WP by off-wiki coordinating. The EEML is the bugbear of this. But that story is one that is not of off-wiki coordination in my book. That is a story of WP:TAGTEAM, WP:CANVASS, and WP:MEATPUPPET. Even if the mailing list had not been exposed, there was enough evidence against the bad actors in that situation that it could have been identified. (I'll not worry too much about the history of the situation to comment on whether this was a type-case that hadn't yet been tested.)
The long and the short of this is that I think there are certain presumptions that this website that need to be interrogated in light of the overall vision for what we want Wikipedia to be -- as a community. In my mind, the best thing is for the encyclopedia to adhere to the standards for reliability, verifiability, and academic rigor. If that happens with off-wiki coordination, who am I to argue? And, what's more, I off-wiki coordinate myself! As I said, I have encouraged students to edit Wikipedia, I'm active on other sites that discuss Wikipedia, and I have acted on requests by others who have pointed out issues with Wikipedia. I believe I have done so in a way that has improved the encyclopedia. Others have disagreed. For a time I was banned from this website. But I think, ultimately, there is an underlying thread of believing that what is best for the content is what is best for the encyclopedia. In my judgement, what is best for the content is to tolerate or even celebrate groups that try to do what GSoW and Sgerbic are doing. The rest is just dross.
jps ( talk) 02:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Jabir ibn Hayyan was born: 721 AD, Tous, Iran. Could you please inform me why you Deleted it? You dont lik it? -- خردمندان ( talk) 12:54, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
it is not clear whether Jabir ibn Hayyan ever existed as a historical person.The first person to write anything about him, Ibn al-Nadim, did so almost 200 years after Jabir supposedly lived. For this reason, scholars do not regard the information on Jabir given by Ibn al-Nadim as very reliable, and even Ibn al-Nadim did not state that Jabir was born in Tus, only that he came from Khurasan. We just don't know where he was born, if he ever lived at all. In such a case, it is misleading to give a birth place in the infobox.
Dabaqabad has over the past 2 days gone to several articles and engaged in mass deletions of content related to the Nugaal region, even when sourced. I'm wondering whether ARBHORN restrictions placed on him are relevant in this case. Heesxiisolehh ( talk) 22:53, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I would also like to add the arbitration on his case went stale, while a 6 month TBAN was proposed in October 2021, there was no further action taken by the admins here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive295#Dabaqabad.
Is there a way to reopen the case and get a firm decision? Thanks Wadamarow ( talk) 01:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
It can be added as Shia view of Abu Lu'lu'a in his article, be cause Sheikh al habib is a great Shia clergy. He says:
https://alhabib.org/en/what-is-the-proof-that-abu-lulu-reached-iran-and-was-buried-there/
https://alhabib.org/en/was-abu-lulua-a-zoroastrian/
89.183.23.67 ( talk) 17:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.183.77.254 ( talk)
I have been studying Islamic studies and Islamic history for 5-6 years. I have read many articles and books. Majority of books say there was a troop of more than 100,000 army against Muslim. But I don’t understand how and why “Modern estimation” says 80,000 or 15,000 to 25,000. Modern estimation is absolutely wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amazing237 ( talk • contribs) 01:57, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
the vast majority of estimates for the Byzantine army are between 80,000 and 150,000, so it seems to be saying more or less the same as you (more than 100,000)? The article then goes on to say that
other estimates are as low as 15,000 to 20,000, which clearly is a minority point of view (because
the vast majoritysays otherwise). According to our Neutral point of view policy, we must represent
fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.So the question really is what is proportionate or due to mention. Who defends the 15,000 to 20,000 estimate? Is this a significant minority? Or is it only a fringe point of view not held by any reliable source? I don't know the answer to these questions, but if you want to change the article, it would be best if you would raise these questions on the talk page of the article, where other editors can chime in. ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 10:54, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
What is want to say is that minority are wrong. Any one write any thing and some people accept it in minority. 15,000 - 20,000 is 100% wrong and I believe that this estimation is not collected from an authentic source. People reading Wikipedia will get wrong idea.
And about getting “bias” has no reason here. I just said the truth. You may refer more article/ book/ web. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Amazing237 (
talk •
contribs) 12:49, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Have you seen my recent upgrade to this article? It's mostly cobbled together from the separate biography articles, so it may need some copyediting, etc... Skyerise ( talk) 15:35, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma, I fondly remember our discussion on the Omar / Umar topic and was wondering if you have an interest in another question of modern Arabic. There is currently a peer review ongoing at Levantine Arabic, and I have raised a number of challenges around the relationship between Levantine and MSA / CA, and the history of its development. I remember from the previous discussion how much more knowledgeable you are than I am in these topics. If of interest, the discussion is at Wikipedia:Peer review/Levantine Arabic/archive2. Onceinawhile ( talk) 01:29, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I have disclosed COI as per the guidelines you provided. Can I continue such legitimate edits? i.e., adding reviews to movies/shows that our site has covered? Or good-faith citations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.126.20.210 ( talk) 11:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
You're v v welcome! I was just in the middle of faffing around with the BBC story so I thought I should keep going. Cheers DBaK ( talk) 00:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Figured you'd probably want to weigh in on this one: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congelation. Skyerise ( talk) 17:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
The Original Barnstar | |
For your recent edits to Ibn Wahshiyya. Thank you for bringing a scholarly perspective based on recent research to the article! Cerebellum ( talk) 11:21, 24 January 2021 (UTC) |
Apaugasma, you seem to know what you're talking about! I'm working on Ibn Wahshiyya's Nabataean Agriculture right now, so if you ever have a moment to spare would you mind reading through it and letting me know what you think? I know the prose is rough, I need to clean it up, but I’m more worried about any errors of fact or interpretation. Until I saw your edit summary I didn’t know that Nasr was a fringe author, I’ll remove my citation to him but there are probably other mistakes lurking! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Can I ask whether you know much about the origins and development of the Greek four-stage colour-coded alchemical process ending with iosis (rubedo, rubefaction) via xanthosis, etc.? It was this connection, with the end product being purple and purple being the highest colour, indicating the (spiritual) purity of the rarefied material and somehow conceiving of purple as equal or greater than gold, or rubefaction as the final purifying stage in the production of "gold", that I am especially interested in. Reference was made to some Leiden papyri in Liz James's Light and Colour in Byzantine Art and some papers cited therein, but I'd like to know more about colour in the beginnings of alchemy and the first millennium of alchemy in the Greek East. Most work seems to favour the Arabic or Latin traditions of later centuries. GPinkerton ( talk) 17:53, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Thrice-thanks! that's a magnificently more-than-adequate answer! I am very grateful! It is of note that many of the patristic authors refer to dyeing with purple as the basis of various metaphors for both positive and negative (but always indelible) characteristics, doubtless referring to Eclogue 4 (if I remember right) of Vergil and the pun on dyeing/baptism (βάπτω). One of the pseudepigrapha mentions a purple light emanation during the Harrowing of Hell. I'm working on this for my own research on coloured stones in the art of the relevant period. While I know the authors were often concerned with the σμαράγδας (perhaps represented in architecture with verde antico) but do you know of any mentions of porphyry (small p) in the esoterica of any language? GPinkerton ( talk) 01:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Citations
|
---|
|
The Rosetta Barnstar | |
For deciphering Wikipedia's alchemical morass in various language traditions; a magnum opus! GPinkerton ( talk) 14:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC) |
Hi! Wandered here from the ANI on Yaakov and was intrigued by your explanation of your username. Wondered if, based on your knowledge of greek, you might be able to decipher the last sentence of the lede at Sinemorets to clarify what the Greek name was? Trying to find some better history on this place as the current name is fairly new and thought having the correct Greek transliteration might help. Thanks either way. StarM 00:50, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Just to clarify that I don't actually disagree with the content of what you wrote, just the division between the lead and the body of the article. Achar Sva ( talk) 07:41, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make Wikipedia better. You're the type of person that makes this site better. Thank you, friend! Much appreciate your help with the article. Rusdo ( talk) 04:15, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma,
A few questions for you about the Apollonius of Tyana article.
1. You put the Francis quote from the sources section to the historical facts section. May I ask why? Francis is specifically discussing the sources involved. This quote is a better fit in the sources section IMHO.
2. I checked the source for this quote: "This led to controversy, as critics believed Gibbon was alluding to Jesus being a fanatic." It was simply not there in the B.W. Young article. Unless I miss something, I think this is out of place.
3. "Hilton Hotema compared Apollonius to Jesus by noting that there is much historical data surrounding the life of the Tyanean, but that Jesus is unknown outside of the New Testament." This is well outside mainstream scholarship and demonstrably false. If this quote is included, a note should be made regarding this. There is ample evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament and virtually no early evidence for Apollonius, as demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.
Thank you. Rusdo ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
It would probably be a good idea for you to take a break from my talk page because you seem to have run out of ammo. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 21:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma! First off, thanks for the warm welcome and for the balanced edits :-). One request, though: I think "[...] was able to identify the phonetic value of a few Egyptian hieroglyphs" gives the wrong impression. This suggests that Ibn Washiyya was following the correct method like an early Young / Champollion, as per Dr. El Daly's claims. I would be very excited if that were true, but looking e.g. at the picture shown with the article (from Dr. El Daly's presentation), it clearly is not:
Going through the list from the upper left, 𓊰 is not a uniconsonantal sign at all, certainly not "aleph", 𓏌𓏤 is /nw/ + determinative stroke, not "y", 𓏏 𓏥 is /t/ + plural strokes and not "q", 𓉻 is ayn+aleph (the word "great"), not "g", the next character 𓏌 is /nw/ again, now interpreted as "b", 𓊹𓊹 "two gods" (nTr.wy?) is certainly not "k" and so forth ... I could go on for the rest of the chart: it is not just that the phonetic values are misidentified but that word signs are interpreted as phonetics and the author clearly did not even understand which signs belong together. This impression is confirmed by a quick glance through the translation of the work linked to in the article: whole groups of glyphs are given allegorical translations "if a man was poisoned they would write it with XYZ glyphs" with no basis in the actual text displayed. So, if any glyphs were identified correctly I would ascribe that to mere chance (sadly, again - if the work had been done 1,000 years ago, I would be extremely excited).
I think the reason why this never gets called out is because the number of reporters that can read Hieroglyphs and Arabic is vanishingly small if not zero. I would give Ibn Washiyya credit for trying and for his assumption that signs could be read phonetically (rather than just allegorically / as ideographs) - in itself an important step. But "correctly identified some signs" gives the wrong impression IMHO, especially since this has been hyped so much in the media and there has been no critical reporting whatsoever (outside of specialist circles). Can we find a better way to phrase this? I struggled, that's why I took the identification part out completely in the lead section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikuChan39 ( talk • contribs) 12:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Please stop your disruptive editing.
If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Reverting the deletion of material added by a blocked sock is...well, it's about the worst explanation one can give. Drmies ( talk) 01:14, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
You appear to be an extremely knowledgeable person to me. Will come to visit you from time to time to discuss few things or to get some book recommendations on the history of philosophy, religion and science if you don't mind. I have started reading Kevin Van Bladel's "The Arabic Hermes: From Pagan Sage to Prophet of Science." Interesting study. But the book I suppose suffers from some Hellenocentric biases. I don't know. That is just an opinion. I haven't even finished the book yet. Have you come across this term before? I mean, Hellenocentrism? I suppose you have. The article is not an well developed one. Need more references to enrich that entry. Anyways, Bladels' book is great. Learning many things from it. Wanted to let you know that I came to know of this book from one of your comments in a talk page. And yes, pardon my English, I am not a native speaker. Best wishes for you. Mosesheron ( talk) 17:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
It was really enlightening. However, do you believe that modern historians have genuinely attempted, or are still attempting, to reconstruct the cultural context in which ancient Greece flourished, with all of its knowledge of philosophy, theology, and so on? Was it that difficult, given the fact that they have “successfully reconstructed" many aspects of history that were almost unknown to us? I'm sure you've considered the time period between the so-called first philosopher of ancient Greece, Thales, and the "all-knowing" Aristotle, in whose figure we see the culmination of nearly all ancient knowledge? How could they achieve so many things within such a short period of time? What are the real sources of pre-Socratic philosophy, theology, and so on? Did it all begin with them? If the answer is no, then, who were their real inspirations? People like Martin Bernal et al might well be wrong in their theses, but what really have the mainstream historians taught us about this aspect of intellectual history? I've been looking for a few works on the history of ancient philosophy, theology, sciences, and other subjects that explore the origins and sources of pre-Socratic philosophy in depth, but to my surprise, I have found none. Now that maybe because I am not an expert in the filed or a student of the history of philosophy and sciences like you. But again why are they so scarce if they really exist, if such works exist at all? Most books or journal papers I read start with the pre-Socratics, with an introduction that largely rejects rather than recognizes the contributions or contacts with other civilizations in a very smart way. They frequently spare a few lines to demonstrate how primitive and mythological other civilizations were, while claiming that the Greeks were unique and original in such and such ways. I made a comment on the Talk Page of the pre-Socratic philosophy about its sources and origin few months ago, which two devoted editors took very seriously. What do we come know about its origin and history from that page now? The straightforward answer is nothing. I am not of course undermining their efforts. Perhaps they did their best. Or perhaps they thought such little description was sufficient for it. Would you kindly recommend me some works that discuss the origins and sources of pre-Socratic philosophy in depth? Lastly, I thank you for your comment. It offers some ideas that our academics frequently fail to express. Best wishes. Mosesheron ( talk) 17:13, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
pseudo-historicaround here), so that's why you're not finding such. I don't know any real good reference for pre-Greek science (i.e., Babylonian and ancient Egyptian science), but I highly recommend checking the first chapter of Lindberg, David C. (2008). The Beginnings of Western Science: The European Scientific Tradition in Philosophical, Religious, and Institutional Context, 600 B.C. to A.D. 1450 (2d ed.). University of Chicago Press., which probably refers to some good sources on this in the bibliography (actually, the whole book is worth reading in itself, as it is the standard introduction to the history of science west of India). For Presocratic philosophy, there's Cherniss, Harold F. (1935). Aristotle's Criticism of Presocratic Philosophy. New York: Octagon Books., which is of course outdated in many ways, but remains the go-to classic when it comes to source criticism with regard to the Presocratics. For Presocratic philosophy itself, there are the well-known standard introductory works by scholars such as W. K. C. Guthrie and Jonathan Barnes (especially Guthrie is still very often cited), but I suspect you will find a much more up-to-date historiographical approach (as well as some interesting references) in Laks, André; Most, Glenn W. (2018). The Concept of Presocratic Philosophy: Its Origin, Development, and Significance. Princeton University Press. There's much more where that came from, so please feel free to ask.
Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Talk:Shem HaMephorash. Such edits are disruptive, and may appear to other editors to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Skyerise ( talk) 11:06, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Apaugasma:, I was wondering if you'd like to weigh in on a discussion of sources over at Empty tomb. The question is over the validity of an assumption narrative lying at the heart of the empty tomb story in Mark. It seems to me that according to the source in question, this is problematic and probably not a mainstream or even a significant minority view. I know you appreciate taking sources seriously and figuring out what they're saying. I'd love to have your take. Rusdo ( talk) 14:05, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you Apaugasma for informing the mistake in my draft article. I moved the page title of the article 'Paracelsus' to Philips Paracelsus. It will be more informative are easy to search. Regards, Hrishikesh Namboothiri V VNHRISHIKESH ( talk) 06:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for you comments on my talk page. I see that you have restored some of the "see also" link I removed, but /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#%22See_also%22_section says that the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body - and those link are already in the article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Inf-in MD ( talk • contribs) 23:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
as a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body.But it also says that
whether a link belongs in the "See also" section is ultimately a matter of editorial judgment and common sense.It seems to me that in many cases, these two recommendations are in conflict.
The guideline says "As a general rule", so if a link is particularly important and helpful to the reader, it can be repeated in See also. But if this [sc. this guideline] is removed entirely, people will add whatever links they want to draw attention to.
The point of the guideline is to make sure the See also section doesn't get too long, so we're supposed to use it sparingly. If something really is an excellent link to repeat, then you can do it. Note that editors may differ in their interpretion of "excellent", of course. We used to have an editor who would go around removing See alsos, no matter how helpful. He would either incorporate them into the text or remove them. That was a nuisance, but I've not seen anyone do that in a systematic way for years.
The way I see it, the links in the article body are most often associated with some sort of context or description. The links in the "See also" section are most often not. [...] So, the rule prevents the section from becoming a list of indiscriminate items.
Even if this rule is lifted, I will continue removing those "See also" links that I had removed in the past, only this time I will cite WP:REPEATLINK. And there is a reason to it too: I have never removed a link from "See also" whose existence improved the article despite this "rule". MOS is a guideline and I treat it that way.
[...] If the restriction is lifted, then I don't see a natural limitation. In a biographical article that describes a person's associations with many other people over decades, all of them wikilinked, what would keep others from thinking "Hey, he worked with X, we should suggest to readers that they also see X", with the "see also" section ultimately containing dozens of links and thereby rendering the section fairly useless as a means of focus on especially related topics.
Wikipedia has no firm rules? It's a rule in itself here that "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." (see Wikipedia:Ignore all rules). You say that 1970 FIFA World Cup Final should not repeat the link to Pelé in the See also section, even though it's very important and relevant to the article. But regardless of rules, do you personally believe that the See also section of that article is better without a link to Pelé? This you should always do, to ask the one question: Does it make Wikipedia better or not? To quote:
Answer that question first, then pick whatever policy, guideline, essay, or argument supports the answer. Don't flip the order. If you look at a policy page first, then decide that something is good/bad because that's the conclusion of the policy, you forgot to ask yourself the one question. And you could very well end up supporting an outcome which does not make Wikipedia better.So I would like you to ask the one question with regard to the links in The Kybalion and Emerald Tablet. If you truly believe that Wikipedia is better without repeating them, then I won't argue over that. Thanks again for your attention! Sincerely, ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 18:12, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
I appreciate you spending time on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hitchens's razor, my AN/I concern, and my talk page a while back when you helped me to understand policy better. You seem very professional and kind, and I appreciate that you have pointed out my mistakes in a professional and kind way. MarshallKe ( talk) 13:13, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
I have long appreciated your good edits on a number of articles, so: thank you! You are careful and knowledgeable, you respect good scholarship, and you tactfully revert inappropriate edits. If you make changes to Pseudo-Democritus, please read Martelli first. I think his monograph on the subject concludes about as much as is reasonable to conclude from the available sources, and successfully dates this writer's work to ca. 60 AD. I know Martelli, and can vouch for his conscientious professional scholarship. Ajrocke ( talk) 17:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Apaugasma! Thank you very much for your kindness for how to contribute to Wikipedia. It was the first edit of Wikipedia for me, and I seem to have made a mistake, editing it. If you made a correction for my edit, I thank you so much! I have some things to do now, and would like to read about Pneuma (Stoic) and Stoic Physics later. I will not discuss it on the talk pages. Take care! Ruby2021 ( talk) 16:16, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
The term "militant atheist" isn't used to refer to a biographical subject anywhere on Wikipedia. Should I assume that you already know this? The term "militant atheist" was used by members of WikiProject Conservatism to attack atheists. Viriditas ( talk) 20:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Whatever happened to your additions to this article? Will they see the light of day? Skyerise ( talk) 18:29, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Can you please make the article Draft:Reign of Love out from draft? I think name of article must change to Velayate-e-Eshgh. Thanks Nikan Faze ( talk) 14:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Can you please help me and say what can I do for the article Draft:List of Shahbanus of Persia? Nikan Faze ( talk) 14:41, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
If you are interested, can you do the same thing you did for Abu Lu'lu'a for Abu Amra Kaysan too? I think this article must to expand. thanks. Nikan Faze ( talk) 12:57, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Greetings,
Requesting your visit to article Draft:Aurats (word) and help expand the same if it interests you.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' ( talk) 03:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma, I wanted to reach out here since I just closed the discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 28#Shurafa committee. I also deleted the uppercase variant that you identified. I see this as an acceptable deletion per WP:NOTBURO. When closing RfDs, I try to consider whether the heart of the discussion is really a specific redirect or a more general idea. In this case, I saw the core question as "Should this phrase redirect to this page?" The answer was no, so requiring a separate discussion for the variant would be overly bureaucratic. In the future, you can list such variants in the same discussion. I expect editors would not object to that even if you don't spot the variants immediately.
One caveat is for situations where capitalization variants redirect to different places. This is not necessarily wrong, but that sort of situation comes up at RfD periodically, usually with an eye to bringing the redirects into sync. So if Shurafa Committee had redirected to a different page, I would not have taken action, leaving it instead to a separate discussion. Hope this explanation is helpful. -- BDD ( talk) 15:47, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Hey Apaugasma,
I have been impressed by your survey of scholarly works on Islam-related articles. I have already pinged you on some discussions over the past month and want to continue to do so. Is it ok if I do? I don't consider this canvassing as I consider you a fairly neutral editor (and in fact you've opposed my proposal in this discussion). I ping you because you provide insight from usually a different angle than how I see things. VR talk 04:37, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
I think you can revert your previous edit on Indian religions. Because the grammar was error. Indian religions are not those 4. Those 4 are major. It includes so many folklores and faiths. Those are mentioned in the article aswell. Wholepak ( talk) 15:07, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. When one is ranting into the void, this is the response one is hoping for, but doesn't really expect. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:07, 16 October 2021 (UTC) |
Hey,
What, in your opinion, is the difference between history and legends? From what I understand, a legend is a folk tale and its historicity can either be:
From my reading, I'm seeing the legends of
Abadir falling into the third category. It seems that historians agree Abadir existed; they doubt some of the more exaggerated tales surrounding him, but consider other stories of him believable enough to mention. For example, A Yemeni Sufi called Abadir migrated to Harar after the conversion and established Islamic schools there. His influence was important and today many Hararis sons of Abadir.
The same source then goes on to mention Abadir domesticating hyenas (which sounds mythical to me).
[3]
But as a general question, though, doesn't history include a lot of folk tales and hearsay? VR talk 16:11, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm writing this here, per WP:NOTFORUM. Kecia Ali's Marriage and Slavery in Early Islam argues that there were strong parallels between wives and concubines. Early literature used the word milk (meaning ownership) to describe a man's dominion over both his wife and his concubine. She compares marriage (where a man pays mahr) to purchase of a concubine (where a man pays her price). She compares husband talaq-ing (ie divorcing) his wife to a man freeing ahis concubine. She then says Muslims weren't the only ones who thought like that, and quotes Norman Cantor saying "roughly one quarter of any major society in antiquity were human chattels— someone’s property." She discusses the work CHATTEL OR PERSON? THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE MISHNAH as means of comparison to Judaism. And then there's this source which says concubinage was closer to marriage than to domestic slavery.
All this is not to deny the horrible treatment concubines faced as you indicate here. But did wives in the medieval Muslim world fare significant better? Forced marriage and marital rape were historically common. So do we recognize the plight of Muslim wives by moving marriage in Islam to marriage and sexual slavery in Islam? Of course not. In fact, when one ponders on the plights of a medieval wife, the term "concubine" does not seem nice at all. Concubine denotes a woman inferior to a wife. Just as the life of a wife depended on the wealth and status of her husband, so did the life of a concubine. VR talk 02:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello , i want to know how to create an English version of this article ar:بنو العنبر. CorrectionKSA ( talk) 03:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Content in this edit is translated from the existing Arabic Wikipedia article at [[:ar:بنو العنبر]]; see its history for attribution.
Hi thank you for your concern about my last edit Samaale, but i would like to share with you about the Samaale.
Samaale is a ancestor of Somali people and where Somali name come from, Samale brother is Sab, and their father is Hiil, and the grand grandfather is Abroone. Samaale Hiil Abroone you can confirm any somali.
Samaale has 9 children, Dir and Hawiye are one they are brothers in one father and called irir Samaale, ( you can comfirm to anyone) Gardheere Samaale is the frist born or oldest Samaale children, Mayle Samaale, Maqarre Samaale, Xarmalle Samaale, Yahabur Samaale, (not Yakabur, there is no Yakabur word in Somali language, if you see Yakabur in the book mybe there is error typing) Karure Samaale, Hariire Samaale and more,
I hope you understand when i edit i just want to proof my Samaale, not just to write what i wanr, if you are the one who can only edit and yoy are the owner of this article its ok i won't edit agaon,. Doorwaaq ( talk) 13:07, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
So the ANI thread is closed! Good riddance. But a few comments to continue here.
regarding go write on the blackboard 1000 times: I would like you to stop for a moment and reflect on how you would feel when other editors would address you this way. That's not cool.
I'm surprised that you took offense. If someone wrote that to me, I would respond in kind, but I wouldn't hold it against the person. Maybe I'm a jaded old fart who has been around WP for too long, but this sort of banter was historically par for the course. I think you know that I hold you in esteem and although I disagree strenuously with some of your positions and may phrase my disagreements in hyperbolic fashion, it's kinda a style thing. If you don't like that repartee, I apologize. I thought we were on better terms perhaps.
Your other point is an interesting one. You are right that there is a presumption that off-wiki organizing is a no-good-very-bad-thing. I want us to consider whether this is the correct presumption. I think that, in fact, this is only a problem when it results in a circumvention of the other WP:PAGs at issue. If such off-wiki coordination results in an improvement in the encyclopedia -- it is a good thing.
Now the rejoinder to that argument is that some people sometimes think they're improving WP by off-wiki coordinating. The EEML is the bugbear of this. But that story is one that is not of off-wiki coordination in my book. That is a story of WP:TAGTEAM, WP:CANVASS, and WP:MEATPUPPET. Even if the mailing list had not been exposed, there was enough evidence against the bad actors in that situation that it could have been identified. (I'll not worry too much about the history of the situation to comment on whether this was a type-case that hadn't yet been tested.)
The long and the short of this is that I think there are certain presumptions that this website that need to be interrogated in light of the overall vision for what we want Wikipedia to be -- as a community. In my mind, the best thing is for the encyclopedia to adhere to the standards for reliability, verifiability, and academic rigor. If that happens with off-wiki coordination, who am I to argue? And, what's more, I off-wiki coordinate myself! As I said, I have encouraged students to edit Wikipedia, I'm active on other sites that discuss Wikipedia, and I have acted on requests by others who have pointed out issues with Wikipedia. I believe I have done so in a way that has improved the encyclopedia. Others have disagreed. For a time I was banned from this website. But I think, ultimately, there is an underlying thread of believing that what is best for the content is what is best for the encyclopedia. In my judgement, what is best for the content is to tolerate or even celebrate groups that try to do what GSoW and Sgerbic are doing. The rest is just dross.
jps ( talk) 02:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Jabir ibn Hayyan was born: 721 AD, Tous, Iran. Could you please inform me why you Deleted it? You dont lik it? -- خردمندان ( talk) 12:54, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
it is not clear whether Jabir ibn Hayyan ever existed as a historical person.The first person to write anything about him, Ibn al-Nadim, did so almost 200 years after Jabir supposedly lived. For this reason, scholars do not regard the information on Jabir given by Ibn al-Nadim as very reliable, and even Ibn al-Nadim did not state that Jabir was born in Tus, only that he came from Khurasan. We just don't know where he was born, if he ever lived at all. In such a case, it is misleading to give a birth place in the infobox.
Dabaqabad has over the past 2 days gone to several articles and engaged in mass deletions of content related to the Nugaal region, even when sourced. I'm wondering whether ARBHORN restrictions placed on him are relevant in this case. Heesxiisolehh ( talk) 22:53, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I would also like to add the arbitration on his case went stale, while a 6 month TBAN was proposed in October 2021, there was no further action taken by the admins here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive295#Dabaqabad.
Is there a way to reopen the case and get a firm decision? Thanks Wadamarow ( talk) 01:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
It can be added as Shia view of Abu Lu'lu'a in his article, be cause Sheikh al habib is a great Shia clergy. He says:
https://alhabib.org/en/what-is-the-proof-that-abu-lulu-reached-iran-and-was-buried-there/
https://alhabib.org/en/was-abu-lulua-a-zoroastrian/
89.183.23.67 ( talk) 17:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.183.77.254 ( talk)
I have been studying Islamic studies and Islamic history for 5-6 years. I have read many articles and books. Majority of books say there was a troop of more than 100,000 army against Muslim. But I don’t understand how and why “Modern estimation” says 80,000 or 15,000 to 25,000. Modern estimation is absolutely wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amazing237 ( talk • contribs) 01:57, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
the vast majority of estimates for the Byzantine army are between 80,000 and 150,000, so it seems to be saying more or less the same as you (more than 100,000)? The article then goes on to say that
other estimates are as low as 15,000 to 20,000, which clearly is a minority point of view (because
the vast majoritysays otherwise). According to our Neutral point of view policy, we must represent
fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.So the question really is what is proportionate or due to mention. Who defends the 15,000 to 20,000 estimate? Is this a significant minority? Or is it only a fringe point of view not held by any reliable source? I don't know the answer to these questions, but if you want to change the article, it would be best if you would raise these questions on the talk page of the article, where other editors can chime in. ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 10:54, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
What is want to say is that minority are wrong. Any one write any thing and some people accept it in minority. 15,000 - 20,000 is 100% wrong and I believe that this estimation is not collected from an authentic source. People reading Wikipedia will get wrong idea.
And about getting “bias” has no reason here. I just said the truth. You may refer more article/ book/ web. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Amazing237 (
talk •
contribs) 12:49, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Have you seen my recent upgrade to this article? It's mostly cobbled together from the separate biography articles, so it may need some copyediting, etc... Skyerise ( talk) 15:35, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma, I fondly remember our discussion on the Omar / Umar topic and was wondering if you have an interest in another question of modern Arabic. There is currently a peer review ongoing at Levantine Arabic, and I have raised a number of challenges around the relationship between Levantine and MSA / CA, and the history of its development. I remember from the previous discussion how much more knowledgeable you are than I am in these topics. If of interest, the discussion is at Wikipedia:Peer review/Levantine Arabic/archive2. Onceinawhile ( talk) 01:29, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I have disclosed COI as per the guidelines you provided. Can I continue such legitimate edits? i.e., adding reviews to movies/shows that our site has covered? Or good-faith citations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.126.20.210 ( talk) 11:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
You're v v welcome! I was just in the middle of faffing around with the BBC story so I thought I should keep going. Cheers DBaK ( talk) 00:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Figured you'd probably want to weigh in on this one: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congelation. Skyerise ( talk) 17:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)