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Hi Joelle, when making edits, please reference them, especially with medical articles, which have their own sourcing guidelines. I have undone a couple of your edits (those to Mowat–Wilson syndrome and Bloom–Richardson grading system), because the information they added was not found in the referenced sources. Graham 87 12:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
I gave into Wikipedian monarchists last time through exhaustion but the reality is that Johanna wasn't a Princess and her article should really be at Johanna von Hessen or such. PAustin4thApril1980 ( talk) 15:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Are you willing to remove the attack on Chris Langan? It's very unfair and biased to have it up...I hope you can see my perspective — Preceding unsigned comment added by 777 persona 777 ( talk • contribs) 04:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I'd like to be informed if you're pointing out stuff I write to admins. From my background and other edits I believe you can find I am a pretty reasonable person that can understand when behaviour is an issue. And also please read: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Status_quo_stonewalling#Manipulating_an_admin_into_helping. PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 19:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. -- PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 20:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I wanted to sincerely apologize for the interaction we had recently. My perception of this whole situation was altered and I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I hope that you can forgive me sometime for it. I will be glad to collaborate with you in the event we edit on the same page. Sorry again and thank you for your understanding. PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 18:00, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Lupus, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page BAFF ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)
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Hello, why are you deleting so many references? Especially the "royalark" ones? No idea why, is this not a good reference/source according to you? Garnhami ( talk) 08:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Because some sources given on "Why removed?" talk section, from the newspapers 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The– Hindu 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_of_India 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Telegraph_(Kolkata). Or allow me to add this. Thanks..... প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:17, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
No. 1 corrected: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hindu প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:22, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
https://appliedsentience.com/tag/neohumanism প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
I have added the type parameter to the TfD template at Template:Grand Ducal Family of Tuscany. The type parameter is important for the correct rendering of the TfD banner in pages transcluding the nominated template. See Template:Template for discussion#Display on articles. Thanks. -- Bsherr ( talk) 05:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
You are doing gods' work. Surtsicna ( talk) 18:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I am waiting for your nominations of delete Line of succession to the former Romanian throne, Line of succession to the former throne of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Line of succession to the former Iraqi throne etc. It was clear double standard and anti-Austro-Hungarian sentiment from your apart. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 09:48, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
WP:AGF. But thanks for making all those AfD threads so I didn't have to. JoelleJay ( talk)
Since you had stated in the past that unlinked entries in the templates for royalty wasn't allowed, do you know what the rule is regarding redirects for people who don't have articles? There was some disagreement over at Template:Danish princes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 ( talk) 01:26, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
In the most recent edit history of Template:Hanoverian princes, it says "per WP:EXISTING #1: "Red links can be retained in navigation templates that represent a well-defined and complete set of data (geographic divisions, annual events, filmographies, etc.), where deleting links would leave an incomplete and misleading result". Should such entries be added back to hose other royalty templates? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 ( talk) 02:41, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Did you take a look at the mall's article after my addition of sources? I think the court battle with Applebee's is an assertation of notability, and there are far more sources from newspapers all over Massachusetts distinctly about the mall and its community impact. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 00:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for reverting the IP edits on US cities a few days ago. Sorry you have to deal with that, but it's good for Wikipedia as a whole that people outside the very small meteorology project are aware of who he is and what he's doing. All the best, — Soap — 20:10, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
If you're interested in COVID-19 or other medicine-related articles, then I think you'll find some wiki-friends at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. There is also a specific group for COVID-19 at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject COVID-19. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 22:44, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Missing Barnstar | ||
This is for coping professionally with stupidity like "focus on princes and princesses" and for your insightful contributions to the encyclopedia. Wikipedia needs more editors like you, — Paleo Neonate – 22:20, 15 February 2021 (UTC) |
Hello JoelleJay -- Not sure I understand your AfD rationales. I'm stuck with GS, not Scopus, but what you seem to be doing is comparing academics with the co-authors on their top-cited papers? I don't see why this is valid; surely (1) taking higher-cited papers biases towards above-average citation profiles; and (2) academics will tend to publish mainly with people in their own university, so someone at a prestigious university will tend to have higher-cited co-authors than someone at a relatively low-level institution.
Am I missing something? Cheers, Espresso Addict ( talk) 08:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
clearly more notable or more accomplished. As Wikipedia is not a directory, it is important to apply notability thresholds fairly and evenly, which for academics generally excludes early-career researchers. Wikipedia is also not to be used for advocacy or to right great wrongs, so it would be inappropriate to relax standards for subjects perceived as deserving an article for reasons outside of notability. You can think about it this way: Wikipedia is very policy-oriented, especially when it comes to AfD, so if we were to apply lesser thresholds that had any semblance of uniformity for, e.g., women scientists to give them more "Keeps", this would need to be codified somewhere. Which IMO would be really patronizing and would serve to diminish the achievements of all women scientists with articles. That's not to say we can't increase the visibility of marginalized groups on WP in other ways--for example, by encouraging newspapers and magazines to do more in-depth coverage of particular people (which would fulfill GNG). JoelleJay ( talk) 17:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
citation counts per decile? As for average (I do mean "mean") and median, I base my analysis off the median but provide the mean for additional context (mostly to give an idea of the range). The relevant subdisciplines can be assessed by looking at the major topics Scopus identifies with a person (Dr. Jones has 10 papers in the topic of "peptide mapping; deuterium; glycine ethyl ester") and then looking at other authors tagged with that topic. In this case most of the people who regularly publish in "peptide mapping..." are already included in her coauthor metrics, so instead I've gone through and evaluated the authors of 15 articles that cite her "peptide mapping..." papers. This widens the field a bit, but that's actually more in line with NPROF C1:
For the purposes of satisfying Criterion 1, the academic discipline of the person in question needs to be sufficiently broadly construed... Arguing that someone is an expert in an extremely narrow area of study is, in and of itself, not necessarily sufficient to satisfy Criterion 1. My coauthor analyses are actually tend to over-estimate scholarly impact (especially as I include non-professors), as evidenced by the results of looking at citing authors:
Citation metrics of authors citing Dr. Jones
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Professional positions of everyone with an h-index of ≥4 included.
Including all authors: total citations: avg: 3454, med: 417, J: 557; total papers: avg: 84, med: 20, J: 31; h-index: avg: 20, med: 12, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 224, med: 76, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 128, med: 39, J: 75. Including only the 14 people with professorships: total citations: avg: 10782, med: 4866, J: 557; total papers: avg: 241, med: 158, J: 31; h-index: avg: 47, med: 39, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 559, med: 436, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 310, med: 200, J: 75. Including all authors with ≥10 papers: total citations: avg: 5264, med: 1001, J: 557; total papers: avg: 126, med: 42, J: 31; h-index: avg: 29, med: 18, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 335, med: 158, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 191, med: 83, J: 75. |
Hello! Hoping you are keeping safe and well.
I note that you edited out the reference to Ms. Baxter being a scientist, due in part, to her not having any peer-reviewed publications: "No indication she is a scientist or engineer (no research publications, work appears exclusively educational/science comm, PhD study is in humanities)."
Nevertheless, I would draw your attention to the SUNY Buffalo article that states how prior to her starting a doctorate in education, she worked as a research scientist: "Becoming a scientist in the community Prior to becoming a STEM educator, Baxter worked as a corporate cancer research scientist in the pharmaceutical industry. But after learning that the only other African Americans working at her office were security guards and custodians, she decided to shift her career toward pushing more people of color toward STEM fields."
Which is to say that there is more than one way to practice as a professional scientist, and Ms. Baxter evidently did so. I hope that you will reverse or amend your edit to reflect this. best wishes Festucarubra ( talk) 10:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi Festucarubra, I agree that she worked briefly as a scientist, which should definitely be reflected on the page (please also see the nice discussion I had with another editor on the talk page). However, I think it isn't appropriate to say that she is currently a scientist as that implies she is either doing research now or had a long-established career as a researcher. Categories should reflect what a subject is known for, and she is not known for her contributions in molecular biology (nor is that her occupation) -- I think it's helpful to look at the professional work of the vast majority of people categorized as molecular biologists. So, I think it is most appropriate to highlight the amazing work she has done in communicating science and expanding access to education instead. Thank you, and hope you're well too! JoelleJay ( talk) 17:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear JoelleJay, I totally agree with you!!!! And I did see your conversation AFTER I sent this note. And you ma y have seen that too. Thanks and take care. Festucarubra ( talk) 12:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear JoelleJay, Sorry to bother you. I just thought I would let you know... see what you think ... ask you to have another think - about the tone of your contribution to the AFD for the article on the Director of New Zealand's Immunisation Advisory Centre, New Zealand. Such a position were it in the US, I think would, by many based in the US, be almost automatically judged notable. My reading is she is a leading figure in NZ public health and she has made a lot of contributions there ...is in the media a lot... but that she is also a GP and has done substantial academic work. I know you have some qualification at the beginning of your contribution - but, and this is my reason for writing - to say She is, at best, a standard academic in her field sounds to me, and I might be a bit oversensitive here (and writing as someone is at best a low level academic), a bit sneery. I could be reading this wrong and feel free to disreagrd this and best wishes anyway, ( Msrasnw ( talk) 17:05, 27 March 2021 (UTC)) (15:43, 27 March 2021 (UTC))
Hi. I just wanted to invite you to the discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland (2nd nomination). Since you had previously participated in similar discussions, I thought you might be able to provide us with some insights regarding this article. Thank you. Keivan.f Talk 16:14, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
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Dear JoelleJay, Sorry to drop in your talk page, but I wanted to ask if the justifications I have provided for Krivtsov being well-respected in the field is sufficient to change your opinion. I have mentioned many contributions to Krivtsov in the field, For instance, SAS - JMP implemented his Bayesian Algorithm, from his paper "A simple procedure for Bayesian estimation of the Weibull distribution" with 104 GS citations. Moreover, Reliasoft implemented his GRP Algorithm, originally described in his dissertation A Monte Carlo approach to modeling and estimation of the generalized renewal process in the repairable system with 49 GS citations. I hope you find those implementations acceptable to consider his respect in the field and the contribution he has given to the reliability engineering professionals like myself. The only other two professors that I have heard their work was implemented by a well-respected software package are Wayne Nelson and Sir David Cox. Thank you so much for your time in contributing to my page. -- Sarouk7 ( talk) 21:34, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
In this case it is necessary to explicitly demonstrate, by a substantial number of references to academic publications of researchers other than the person in question, that this contribution is indeed widely considered to be significant and is widely attributed to the person in question, which is harder to evaluate when there are multiple authors). Sorry I can't be of more help -- you might want to ask some of the topic-specific wikiprojects if they can help in this assessment. JoelleJay ( talk) 00:50, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
tag from
Ludvig Johansson, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add {{proposed deletion}}
back to the page. Instead, feel free to list it at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks!. /
Julle (
talk) 00:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
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Hi. I hope you are well. You are invited to participate at this AFD discussion as you are active in these type of discussions. If there are more participants, then it will be easier to get clear consensus. Hope, you will participate. Thanks and Have a nice day. — A.A Prinon Conversation 11:06, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hello JoelleJay, I appreciate several of your edits on the Spiral Dynamics page. However, I would like to understand your notability concerns and perhaps get a discussion going on the Spiral Dynamics talk page if we can't clear that up here. My concern is regarding the judgement of sources as inadequate. I have no interest in convincing you of the merits of the theory- Wikipedia does cover fringe theories if they are notable.
Your edit comment states "Almost all citations are non-independent from SD or "Integral theory", and the rest are primary", but Spiral Dynamics is separate from Integral Theory. Please note that I am personally not associated with Integral, am generally skeptical of Wilber, and dislike the self-promotional tendencies of many people associated with Integral and/or Spiral Dynamics. I am not working on the page to promote them, and in some cases would be quite happy to leave them out entirely. But that would not be accurate.
Regarding notability, articles published in mainstream, peer-reviewed journals, or books by mainstream publishers are a commonly cited standard. The Spiral Dynamics page cites publications from:
While some (but not all) of the authors cited are associated with Integral, Wikipedia relies on the notability of the publisher and not a value judgement of the author or their ideas. Can you help me understand why you do not consider these sufficiently mainstream to be supportive?
Integral Leadership Review is cited, but only for book reviews indicating what information was published in which book, rather than citing the books themselves, and generally to support a point on how Integral views Spiral Dynamics (since, again, they are not the same thing). They are not used to support general notability.
Not all of the sources mentioning Integral are supportive of the "movement", or even associated with Wilber. For example, Frank Visser (who has published on the topic of Wilber through SUNY Press) is a noted critic. The California Institute of Integral Studies predates Wilber and is not associated with him. There are many people in history who have used the word "Integral", and the citation template does not have a field for "Integral but not Ken Wilber" :-D
Integral is also not the only philosophy cited as building on Spiral Dynamics. Metamodernism is a different and much more recent school of thought that (in one strain) builds on Spiral Dynamics, establishing a different and independent usage in a similar field.
What else is needed to properly establish notability? I feel like the very presence of the word "Integral" makes the page a recurring target (a position with which I have some sympathy). Since I don't care about defending Integral theory, I did my best to find publishers independent of it, with reputable peer review, association with research universities, or long mainstream publishing history. But it would be inaccurate to avoid mentioning Integral entirely. How can I improve this? What publishers would be considered acceptable?
Thanks for reading this far!
Ixat totep ( talk) 06:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hello, I read my notification that you thanked me for my edit on Archduke Carl Christian of Austria page. You don't have to do that, though, just because I did. If you check media reports and Google search results, have you found any significant coverage of himself? CuteDolphin712 ( talk) 06:24, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay, I just thought I'd point out that your User page says "This user is working on a Doctor of Philosophy degree in molecular biology" and since you show up under "Wikipedians with PhD degrees" I thought maybe you forgot to update the other part. Please accept my apologies if I've informed you of this in error. Dr. Universe ( talk) 06:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay. I just wanted to say again that I appreciate your explaining WP:NPROF notability in the recent contentious AfD discussion. And I always appreciate your citation-level comparisons. You make academic AfD a better place. Russ Woodroofe ( talk) 13:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
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I saw you were approved yesterday. Welcome to the reviewer crew!! I'm sure you'll do awesome! Curbon7 ( talk) 04:51, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello JoelleJay:
WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long
Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running until 31 July 2021.
Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.
There is currently a backlog of over 2800 articles, so start reviewing articles. We're looking forward to your help!
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for Creation at 21:54, 7 July 2021 (UTC). If you do not wish to recieve future notification, please remove your name from the mailing list.
I won't be commenting further on the AfD, however, I wanted you to know that I did read your comment. I respect your position that you feel this represents a large number that disputes my claims. I agree that this source denotes something of an improvement from the early 1800's but this still does not make a woman receiving a medical degree in 1904, overcoming all the obstacles she had to after graduating, including finding somewhere to intern, and then elevating herself to the head of an institution of higher learning, regardless of who they offered degrees to, and was able to maintain a successful career as a general practitioner as something to dismiss as common. This was an exceptional woman and I would like to point out that if she is notable now then she was notable before Susun provided those sources WP:NEXIST. I think you are an amazing editor and a positive for the encyclopedia and I wish you all the best. It's okay to disagree and I just happen to disagree with the degree of significance that the source you provided states as compared to the over-all state of women in the medical profession as accredited doctors in 1904. I enjoyed our back-and-forth civil discussion. Thank you. -- ARose Wolf 19:59, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
I cannot agree with your statement in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cornelia Chase Brant that " NPROF is really not applicable to pre-~1970s academics." The modern system of research based tenure had fully developed by then, the same system of major journals and indexes that existed today existed then. Analysis on the basis of citation factor had been developed in the same form as today. The key s, of course, is that we had neither free access nor electronic journals, and this makes analysis more difficult if one does not have accesses to the resources a a major library. But otherwise I was working in the scientific literature the same way, and teaching how to use it to students as faculty just the same way as I explain it now in WP. It is necessary to consider the lower density of publication, as there were fewer journals-- in bioscience at the time having even one article with more than 100 citation was truly exceptional. while now we generally ask for twice that for just notability in the field. As we go earlier than the 1900s, we will increasing run into problems, but the method of attaining distinction in science has been still fundamentally the same for the last several thousand years: widely cited published research.
It remains true, of course, that sometimes the GNG is a more convenient alternative--as it was in this case, where there was a NYT obit, which by itself is sufficient to meet notability . DGG ( talk ) 04:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
This was also my understanding, but I failed to express that correctly when I initiated the process. You and the user Alvaldi both expressed my thoughts perfectly. I gave up being a regular contributor to Wik a long time ago, just too much toxicity and politics for my temperament. Glad new people are taking a principled stance.-- Tallard ( talk) 04:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
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You deleted two links on 30 November to Alexanderpalace. Forum.alexanderpalace.org. Retrieved on 15 July 2018
but this forum published a book which is now open source, uploaded on 25 July 2020. Thanks to you I discovered that but please inform yourself better and read this pdf, you might like it. Taksen ( talk) 17:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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What is this subscribe function you write of? I'm intrigued ... Alexbrn ( talk) 18:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
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Thank you for your email. I really am not sure what there is to expand on. Even going by your count, which I'm not 100% in agreement with but am fine agreeing to disagree, 9/6 is not a strong consensus for deletion. I feel like NFOOTY still goes back and forth, whereas some of the other sport ones are clearly non GNG compliant. I'm willing to relist it if you'd like, but I don't see myself changing it to delete. No issue if you'd prefer to go to DRV. Star Mississippi 00:50, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
‡Extended explanation
|
---|
I try very hard to support my arguments as comprehensively, objectively, and neutrally as I can, and even when I've spent a lot of effort advocating for a particular outcome, if I am wrong about something or new info is provided I will almost always at least acknowledge it and change my stance, no matter how
painful it is to admit.
[1]
[2]
Because I approach disagreements with the expectation that others will do the same, it's frustrating when other participants make strong, incorrect assertions but then refuse to defend or backtrack on them or even respond when challenged. When I entered this AfD I thought bringing up the obvious issue of her interview being in student media would make the case open-shut. When people didn't seem to agree with my explanation of why such sources aren't considered independent, I provided links to precedents and PAGs, and when they claimed the precedent wasn't strong enough I opened a thread on RSN, which has been unsurprisingly unanimous. No one in the AfD contested this result, so I figured it was settled. |
Regarding this edit: note I have not expressed opposition to your proposal. (I suspect that some softening of the word "must" will be needed to achieve a general consensus, but I could be wrong.) My personal suggestion is to ease up on the amount of quoted text to try to avoid overwhelming participants (I wrote the FAQs precisely so the full answers didn't have to be repeated in discussions). I understand the temptation (and fall prey to it myself) when commenters don't seem to be aware of the background, but for better or worse, perception is part of reality. All too often, people will read and remember the portions of a guideline that support their viewpoint, and find shortcomings in any sections that run counter to their opinion. So generally I think some selective excerpts and pointers work better than quoting entire paragraphs. isaacl ( talk) 22:48, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Please don't send notifications to users to tell them about a Wikipedia feature. Notifications are best used in a sparing manner to let others know about a conversation. Once they know about it, they are generally expected to follow it if they are interested. I know some editors like to be notified about any direct reply to their comments (I'm not one of them), and so notifications are fine for them. But a notification for a generic comment about a feature which isn't specific to the discussion in question draws undue attention to it. We ought not to encourage editors to get into attention wars, where they feel compelled to send notifications for every comment they think is important. isaacl ( talk) 21:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
For unnecessary pinging editors multiple times. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:12, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
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Per the discussion at Village Pump, I changed the wording of the notices you gave at Women's History and History projects. The revised language was ok'd by User:BilledMammal. If you have concerns about the changes I made, let me know. I am willing to discuss further if you wish to do so. Cbl62 ( talk) 09:53, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello! I wanted to drop a quick note for all of our AFC participants; nothing huge and fancy like a newsletter, but a few points of interest.
Short and sweet, but there's always more to discuss at WT:AFC. Stop on by, maybe review a draft on the way? Whether you're one of our top reviewers, or haven't reviewed in a while, I want to thank you for helping out in the past and in the future. Cheers, Primefac, via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
I just saw a truly crazy argument that SNGs for sports should be allowed to exist if they only predict passing GNG 70% of the time. This to me is a truly insane standard and the heart of why Wikipedia is so filled with useless junk perma-stub articles. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 16:15, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
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Hello JoelleJay, do you think Talya Miron-Shatz deserve an entry ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4DF7:2:A3AE:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 16:44, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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I am very frustrated at the fact that so many sports articles are allowed to stand just because of SNGs, even at AfD, even when no significant coverage is shown. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:51, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay. In section " /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yiannis_Laouris" you contributed with a short message to the deletion of the above page, which has been online for almost 20 years. Your argument was that "No GNG coverage has turned up, and his citation metrics are way too low to meet NPROF". Over the years I have followed and contributed to this page following this individual. First, I believe that your judgment was based on the assumption that this person is an academic, which he is not! (at least not only!) On the contrary, he is one of the rare cases of an academic taking a leave from academia and making his boots dirty trying to make the world a better place. In my opinion, this alone should have been sufficient for notability! If you google and check his contributions you will discover that he has been an "attractor" for change-makers. More than 100 young people have conducted (unpaid internships with him. This individual has implemented over 100 social-change projects all funded through competitive grants. Most projects focus on social responsibility, education, and democracy. Note that very few academics manage to get 100 grants! Despite not being an active academic, he still found time to publish. Regarding notability, in my experience, the fact that he was chosen by the European Commission as one of 12 to draft the Manifesto for our ONLIFE world should have been sufficient. The live page had links to plenty of reliable secondary sources on these and many other achievements. I have noticed that different editors have been making different arguments, kind of throwing the ball from one to the other. One made the case that German sources were not "reliable". Wikipedia standards state clearly that secondary sources do not have to be in English. Before moving to the US, this individual studied in Germany. He was the first student ever (not just in his university but in what was then known as East Germany), to be awarded a PhD BEFORE graduating; Isn't that notability? We do not serve the vision of Wikipedia by deleting pages that have been live for 2 decades and have been visited by a few thousand people, without careful research. I would kindly ask you to review the matter professionally and revert your argument and decision. More importantly, I would suggest that after your examination you take the initiative and request the re-publishing of that page. Futuristas ( talk) 15:57, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
I wish you hadn't written this huge reply which he won't actually read (no more than he did the first you wrote), and which will distract him from my reply immediately above yours. Your reasoning of course is unimpeachable, but this is all stuff you already said, and, now that he's admitted his closing statement "may lead to interpretations that are more strict than is warranted", you should just go for something simple and straightforward. I think the best thing to focus on now is what I said just before you posted your reply, that is, to remove the original implication that NSPORT doesn't use the word "must". Since that is unquestionably a falsehood and much harder to defend than any of the other wikilawyer talking points which we're both familiar with, he'll remove it if he's reasonable. And, since much of subproposal 1's closing statement is associated to that false statement, removing the latter may open the door for more substantive changes. But trying to push a bunch of abstract and debatable talking points at once is unlikely to work given the inherent difficulty of persuading people online. Avilich ( talk) 00:58, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
I have to admit I am getting tired by sports issues. One example, even though back in October there was a decision to limit default Olympic notability to those who medaled, some editors have tried to argue that since we have articles on virtually every Olympian, we should keep any article on any Olympian that comes to AfD just because we have such a huge amount of articles on Olympians. Such arguments seem to negate the purpose of having actual sports SNGs at all, if people will ignore what they say and argue for a proposition of the articles we actually have. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:09, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
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Hi Joelle, when making edits, please reference them, especially with medical articles, which have their own sourcing guidelines. I have undone a couple of your edits (those to Mowat–Wilson syndrome and Bloom–Richardson grading system), because the information they added was not found in the referenced sources. Graham 87 12:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
I gave into Wikipedian monarchists last time through exhaustion but the reality is that Johanna wasn't a Princess and her article should really be at Johanna von Hessen or such. PAustin4thApril1980 ( talk) 15:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Are you willing to remove the attack on Chris Langan? It's very unfair and biased to have it up...I hope you can see my perspective — Preceding unsigned comment added by 777 persona 777 ( talk • contribs) 04:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I'd like to be informed if you're pointing out stuff I write to admins. From my background and other edits I believe you can find I am a pretty reasonable person that can understand when behaviour is an issue. And also please read: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Status_quo_stonewalling#Manipulating_an_admin_into_helping. PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 19:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. -- PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 20:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I wanted to sincerely apologize for the interaction we had recently. My perception of this whole situation was altered and I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I hope that you can forgive me sometime for it. I will be glad to collaborate with you in the event we edit on the same page. Sorry again and thank you for your understanding. PhysiqueUL09 ( talk) 18:00, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Lupus, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page BAFF ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)
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Hello, why are you deleting so many references? Especially the "royalark" ones? No idea why, is this not a good reference/source according to you? Garnhami ( talk) 08:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Because some sources given on "Why removed?" talk section, from the newspapers 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The– Hindu 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_of_India 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Telegraph_(Kolkata). Or allow me to add this. Thanks..... প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:17, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
No. 1 corrected: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hindu প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:22, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
https://appliedsentience.com/tag/neohumanism প্রসেনজিৎ পাল ( talk) 06:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
I have added the type parameter to the TfD template at Template:Grand Ducal Family of Tuscany. The type parameter is important for the correct rendering of the TfD banner in pages transcluding the nominated template. See Template:Template for discussion#Display on articles. Thanks. -- Bsherr ( talk) 05:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
You are doing gods' work. Surtsicna ( talk) 18:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I am waiting for your nominations of delete Line of succession to the former Romanian throne, Line of succession to the former throne of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Line of succession to the former Iraqi throne etc. It was clear double standard and anti-Austro-Hungarian sentiment from your apart. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 09:48, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
WP:AGF. But thanks for making all those AfD threads so I didn't have to. JoelleJay ( talk)
Since you had stated in the past that unlinked entries in the templates for royalty wasn't allowed, do you know what the rule is regarding redirects for people who don't have articles? There was some disagreement over at Template:Danish princes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 ( talk) 01:26, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
In the most recent edit history of Template:Hanoverian princes, it says "per WP:EXISTING #1: "Red links can be retained in navigation templates that represent a well-defined and complete set of data (geographic divisions, annual events, filmographies, etc.), where deleting links would leave an incomplete and misleading result". Should such entries be added back to hose other royalty templates? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 ( talk) 02:41, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Did you take a look at the mall's article after my addition of sources? I think the court battle with Applebee's is an assertation of notability, and there are far more sources from newspapers all over Massachusetts distinctly about the mall and its community impact. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 00:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for reverting the IP edits on US cities a few days ago. Sorry you have to deal with that, but it's good for Wikipedia as a whole that people outside the very small meteorology project are aware of who he is and what he's doing. All the best, — Soap — 20:10, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
If you're interested in COVID-19 or other medicine-related articles, then I think you'll find some wiki-friends at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. There is also a specific group for COVID-19 at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject COVID-19. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 22:44, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
The Missing Barnstar | ||
This is for coping professionally with stupidity like "focus on princes and princesses" and for your insightful contributions to the encyclopedia. Wikipedia needs more editors like you, — Paleo Neonate – 22:20, 15 February 2021 (UTC) |
Hello JoelleJay -- Not sure I understand your AfD rationales. I'm stuck with GS, not Scopus, but what you seem to be doing is comparing academics with the co-authors on their top-cited papers? I don't see why this is valid; surely (1) taking higher-cited papers biases towards above-average citation profiles; and (2) academics will tend to publish mainly with people in their own university, so someone at a prestigious university will tend to have higher-cited co-authors than someone at a relatively low-level institution.
Am I missing something? Cheers, Espresso Addict ( talk) 08:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
clearly more notable or more accomplished. As Wikipedia is not a directory, it is important to apply notability thresholds fairly and evenly, which for academics generally excludes early-career researchers. Wikipedia is also not to be used for advocacy or to right great wrongs, so it would be inappropriate to relax standards for subjects perceived as deserving an article for reasons outside of notability. You can think about it this way: Wikipedia is very policy-oriented, especially when it comes to AfD, so if we were to apply lesser thresholds that had any semblance of uniformity for, e.g., women scientists to give them more "Keeps", this would need to be codified somewhere. Which IMO would be really patronizing and would serve to diminish the achievements of all women scientists with articles. That's not to say we can't increase the visibility of marginalized groups on WP in other ways--for example, by encouraging newspapers and magazines to do more in-depth coverage of particular people (which would fulfill GNG). JoelleJay ( talk) 17:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
citation counts per decile? As for average (I do mean "mean") and median, I base my analysis off the median but provide the mean for additional context (mostly to give an idea of the range). The relevant subdisciplines can be assessed by looking at the major topics Scopus identifies with a person (Dr. Jones has 10 papers in the topic of "peptide mapping; deuterium; glycine ethyl ester") and then looking at other authors tagged with that topic. In this case most of the people who regularly publish in "peptide mapping..." are already included in her coauthor metrics, so instead I've gone through and evaluated the authors of 15 articles that cite her "peptide mapping..." papers. This widens the field a bit, but that's actually more in line with NPROF C1:
For the purposes of satisfying Criterion 1, the academic discipline of the person in question needs to be sufficiently broadly construed... Arguing that someone is an expert in an extremely narrow area of study is, in and of itself, not necessarily sufficient to satisfy Criterion 1. My coauthor analyses are actually tend to over-estimate scholarly impact (especially as I include non-professors), as evidenced by the results of looking at citing authors:
Citation metrics of authors citing Dr. Jones
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Professional positions of everyone with an h-index of ≥4 included.
Including all authors: total citations: avg: 3454, med: 417, J: 557; total papers: avg: 84, med: 20, J: 31; h-index: avg: 20, med: 12, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 224, med: 76, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 128, med: 39, J: 75. Including only the 14 people with professorships: total citations: avg: 10782, med: 4866, J: 557; total papers: avg: 241, med: 158, J: 31; h-index: avg: 47, med: 39, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 559, med: 436, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 310, med: 200, J: 75. Including all authors with ≥10 papers: total citations: avg: 5264, med: 1001, J: 557; total papers: avg: 126, med: 42, J: 31; h-index: avg: 29, med: 18, J: 16; highest cite: avg: 335, med: 158, J: 75; highest first-author cite: avg: 191, med: 83, J: 75. |
Hello! Hoping you are keeping safe and well.
I note that you edited out the reference to Ms. Baxter being a scientist, due in part, to her not having any peer-reviewed publications: "No indication she is a scientist or engineer (no research publications, work appears exclusively educational/science comm, PhD study is in humanities)."
Nevertheless, I would draw your attention to the SUNY Buffalo article that states how prior to her starting a doctorate in education, she worked as a research scientist: "Becoming a scientist in the community Prior to becoming a STEM educator, Baxter worked as a corporate cancer research scientist in the pharmaceutical industry. But after learning that the only other African Americans working at her office were security guards and custodians, she decided to shift her career toward pushing more people of color toward STEM fields."
Which is to say that there is more than one way to practice as a professional scientist, and Ms. Baxter evidently did so. I hope that you will reverse or amend your edit to reflect this. best wishes Festucarubra ( talk) 10:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi Festucarubra, I agree that she worked briefly as a scientist, which should definitely be reflected on the page (please also see the nice discussion I had with another editor on the talk page). However, I think it isn't appropriate to say that she is currently a scientist as that implies she is either doing research now or had a long-established career as a researcher. Categories should reflect what a subject is known for, and she is not known for her contributions in molecular biology (nor is that her occupation) -- I think it's helpful to look at the professional work of the vast majority of people categorized as molecular biologists. So, I think it is most appropriate to highlight the amazing work she has done in communicating science and expanding access to education instead. Thank you, and hope you're well too! JoelleJay ( talk) 17:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear JoelleJay, I totally agree with you!!!! And I did see your conversation AFTER I sent this note. And you ma y have seen that too. Thanks and take care. Festucarubra ( talk) 12:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear JoelleJay, Sorry to bother you. I just thought I would let you know... see what you think ... ask you to have another think - about the tone of your contribution to the AFD for the article on the Director of New Zealand's Immunisation Advisory Centre, New Zealand. Such a position were it in the US, I think would, by many based in the US, be almost automatically judged notable. My reading is she is a leading figure in NZ public health and she has made a lot of contributions there ...is in the media a lot... but that she is also a GP and has done substantial academic work. I know you have some qualification at the beginning of your contribution - but, and this is my reason for writing - to say She is, at best, a standard academic in her field sounds to me, and I might be a bit oversensitive here (and writing as someone is at best a low level academic), a bit sneery. I could be reading this wrong and feel free to disreagrd this and best wishes anyway, ( Msrasnw ( talk) 17:05, 27 March 2021 (UTC)) (15:43, 27 March 2021 (UTC))
Hi. I just wanted to invite you to the discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland (2nd nomination). Since you had previously participated in similar discussions, I thought you might be able to provide us with some insights regarding this article. Thank you. Keivan.f Talk 16:14, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
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Dear JoelleJay, Sorry to drop in your talk page, but I wanted to ask if the justifications I have provided for Krivtsov being well-respected in the field is sufficient to change your opinion. I have mentioned many contributions to Krivtsov in the field, For instance, SAS - JMP implemented his Bayesian Algorithm, from his paper "A simple procedure for Bayesian estimation of the Weibull distribution" with 104 GS citations. Moreover, Reliasoft implemented his GRP Algorithm, originally described in his dissertation A Monte Carlo approach to modeling and estimation of the generalized renewal process in the repairable system with 49 GS citations. I hope you find those implementations acceptable to consider his respect in the field and the contribution he has given to the reliability engineering professionals like myself. The only other two professors that I have heard their work was implemented by a well-respected software package are Wayne Nelson and Sir David Cox. Thank you so much for your time in contributing to my page. -- Sarouk7 ( talk) 21:34, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
In this case it is necessary to explicitly demonstrate, by a substantial number of references to academic publications of researchers other than the person in question, that this contribution is indeed widely considered to be significant and is widely attributed to the person in question, which is harder to evaluate when there are multiple authors). Sorry I can't be of more help -- you might want to ask some of the topic-specific wikiprojects if they can help in this assessment. JoelleJay ( talk) 00:50, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
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Ludvig Johansson, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add {{proposed deletion}}
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Hello JoelleJay, I appreciate several of your edits on the Spiral Dynamics page. However, I would like to understand your notability concerns and perhaps get a discussion going on the Spiral Dynamics talk page if we can't clear that up here. My concern is regarding the judgement of sources as inadequate. I have no interest in convincing you of the merits of the theory- Wikipedia does cover fringe theories if they are notable.
Your edit comment states "Almost all citations are non-independent from SD or "Integral theory", and the rest are primary", but Spiral Dynamics is separate from Integral Theory. Please note that I am personally not associated with Integral, am generally skeptical of Wilber, and dislike the self-promotional tendencies of many people associated with Integral and/or Spiral Dynamics. I am not working on the page to promote them, and in some cases would be quite happy to leave them out entirely. But that would not be accurate.
Regarding notability, articles published in mainstream, peer-reviewed journals, or books by mainstream publishers are a commonly cited standard. The Spiral Dynamics page cites publications from:
While some (but not all) of the authors cited are associated with Integral, Wikipedia relies on the notability of the publisher and not a value judgement of the author or their ideas. Can you help me understand why you do not consider these sufficiently mainstream to be supportive?
Integral Leadership Review is cited, but only for book reviews indicating what information was published in which book, rather than citing the books themselves, and generally to support a point on how Integral views Spiral Dynamics (since, again, they are not the same thing). They are not used to support general notability.
Not all of the sources mentioning Integral are supportive of the "movement", or even associated with Wilber. For example, Frank Visser (who has published on the topic of Wilber through SUNY Press) is a noted critic. The California Institute of Integral Studies predates Wilber and is not associated with him. There are many people in history who have used the word "Integral", and the citation template does not have a field for "Integral but not Ken Wilber" :-D
Integral is also not the only philosophy cited as building on Spiral Dynamics. Metamodernism is a different and much more recent school of thought that (in one strain) builds on Spiral Dynamics, establishing a different and independent usage in a similar field.
What else is needed to properly establish notability? I feel like the very presence of the word "Integral" makes the page a recurring target (a position with which I have some sympathy). Since I don't care about defending Integral theory, I did my best to find publishers independent of it, with reputable peer review, association with research universities, or long mainstream publishing history. But it would be inaccurate to avoid mentioning Integral entirely. How can I improve this? What publishers would be considered acceptable?
Thanks for reading this far!
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Hello, I read my notification that you thanked me for my edit on Archduke Carl Christian of Austria page. You don't have to do that, though, just because I did. If you check media reports and Google search results, have you found any significant coverage of himself? CuteDolphin712 ( talk) 06:24, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay, I just thought I'd point out that your User page says "This user is working on a Doctor of Philosophy degree in molecular biology" and since you show up under "Wikipedians with PhD degrees" I thought maybe you forgot to update the other part. Please accept my apologies if I've informed you of this in error. Dr. Universe ( talk) 06:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay. I just wanted to say again that I appreciate your explaining WP:NPROF notability in the recent contentious AfD discussion. And I always appreciate your citation-level comparisons. You make academic AfD a better place. Russ Woodroofe ( talk) 13:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
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I saw you were approved yesterday. Welcome to the reviewer crew!! I'm sure you'll do awesome! Curbon7 ( talk) 04:51, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello JoelleJay:
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I won't be commenting further on the AfD, however, I wanted you to know that I did read your comment. I respect your position that you feel this represents a large number that disputes my claims. I agree that this source denotes something of an improvement from the early 1800's but this still does not make a woman receiving a medical degree in 1904, overcoming all the obstacles she had to after graduating, including finding somewhere to intern, and then elevating herself to the head of an institution of higher learning, regardless of who they offered degrees to, and was able to maintain a successful career as a general practitioner as something to dismiss as common. This was an exceptional woman and I would like to point out that if she is notable now then she was notable before Susun provided those sources WP:NEXIST. I think you are an amazing editor and a positive for the encyclopedia and I wish you all the best. It's okay to disagree and I just happen to disagree with the degree of significance that the source you provided states as compared to the over-all state of women in the medical profession as accredited doctors in 1904. I enjoyed our back-and-forth civil discussion. Thank you. -- ARose Wolf 19:59, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
I cannot agree with your statement in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cornelia Chase Brant that " NPROF is really not applicable to pre-~1970s academics." The modern system of research based tenure had fully developed by then, the same system of major journals and indexes that existed today existed then. Analysis on the basis of citation factor had been developed in the same form as today. The key s, of course, is that we had neither free access nor electronic journals, and this makes analysis more difficult if one does not have accesses to the resources a a major library. But otherwise I was working in the scientific literature the same way, and teaching how to use it to students as faculty just the same way as I explain it now in WP. It is necessary to consider the lower density of publication, as there were fewer journals-- in bioscience at the time having even one article with more than 100 citation was truly exceptional. while now we generally ask for twice that for just notability in the field. As we go earlier than the 1900s, we will increasing run into problems, but the method of attaining distinction in science has been still fundamentally the same for the last several thousand years: widely cited published research.
It remains true, of course, that sometimes the GNG is a more convenient alternative--as it was in this case, where there was a NYT obit, which by itself is sufficient to meet notability . DGG ( talk ) 04:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
This was also my understanding, but I failed to express that correctly when I initiated the process. You and the user Alvaldi both expressed my thoughts perfectly. I gave up being a regular contributor to Wik a long time ago, just too much toxicity and politics for my temperament. Glad new people are taking a principled stance.-- Tallard ( talk) 04:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
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Hello, JoelleJay. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Philip Bath, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Jan V. Sengers, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Critical point.
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You deleted two links on 30 November to Alexanderpalace. Forum.alexanderpalace.org. Retrieved on 15 July 2018
but this forum published a book which is now open source, uploaded on 25 July 2020. Thanks to you I discovered that but please inform yourself better and read this pdf, you might like it. Taksen ( talk) 17:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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What is this subscribe function you write of? I'm intrigued ... Alexbrn ( talk) 18:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
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Thank you for your email. I really am not sure what there is to expand on. Even going by your count, which I'm not 100% in agreement with but am fine agreeing to disagree, 9/6 is not a strong consensus for deletion. I feel like NFOOTY still goes back and forth, whereas some of the other sport ones are clearly non GNG compliant. I'm willing to relist it if you'd like, but I don't see myself changing it to delete. No issue if you'd prefer to go to DRV. Star Mississippi 00:50, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
‡Extended explanation
|
---|
I try very hard to support my arguments as comprehensively, objectively, and neutrally as I can, and even when I've spent a lot of effort advocating for a particular outcome, if I am wrong about something or new info is provided I will almost always at least acknowledge it and change my stance, no matter how
painful it is to admit.
[1]
[2]
Because I approach disagreements with the expectation that others will do the same, it's frustrating when other participants make strong, incorrect assertions but then refuse to defend or backtrack on them or even respond when challenged. When I entered this AfD I thought bringing up the obvious issue of her interview being in student media would make the case open-shut. When people didn't seem to agree with my explanation of why such sources aren't considered independent, I provided links to precedents and PAGs, and when they claimed the precedent wasn't strong enough I opened a thread on RSN, which has been unsurprisingly unanimous. No one in the AfD contested this result, so I figured it was settled. |
Regarding this edit: note I have not expressed opposition to your proposal. (I suspect that some softening of the word "must" will be needed to achieve a general consensus, but I could be wrong.) My personal suggestion is to ease up on the amount of quoted text to try to avoid overwhelming participants (I wrote the FAQs precisely so the full answers didn't have to be repeated in discussions). I understand the temptation (and fall prey to it myself) when commenters don't seem to be aware of the background, but for better or worse, perception is part of reality. All too often, people will read and remember the portions of a guideline that support their viewpoint, and find shortcomings in any sections that run counter to their opinion. So generally I think some selective excerpts and pointers work better than quoting entire paragraphs. isaacl ( talk) 22:48, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Please don't send notifications to users to tell them about a Wikipedia feature. Notifications are best used in a sparing manner to let others know about a conversation. Once they know about it, they are generally expected to follow it if they are interested. I know some editors like to be notified about any direct reply to their comments (I'm not one of them), and so notifications are fine for them. But a notification for a generic comment about a feature which isn't specific to the discussion in question draws undue attention to it. We ought not to encourage editors to get into attention wars, where they feel compelled to send notifications for every comment they think is important. isaacl ( talk) 21:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
For unnecessary pinging editors multiple times. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:12, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
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Per the discussion at Village Pump, I changed the wording of the notices you gave at Women's History and History projects. The revised language was ok'd by User:BilledMammal. If you have concerns about the changes I made, let me know. I am willing to discuss further if you wish to do so. Cbl62 ( talk) 09:53, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello! I wanted to drop a quick note for all of our AFC participants; nothing huge and fancy like a newsletter, but a few points of interest.
Short and sweet, but there's always more to discuss at WT:AFC. Stop on by, maybe review a draft on the way? Whether you're one of our top reviewers, or haven't reviewed in a while, I want to thank you for helping out in the past and in the future. Cheers, Primefac, via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
I just saw a truly crazy argument that SNGs for sports should be allowed to exist if they only predict passing GNG 70% of the time. This to me is a truly insane standard and the heart of why Wikipedia is so filled with useless junk perma-stub articles. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 16:15, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
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Hello JoelleJay, do you think Talya Miron-Shatz deserve an entry ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4DF7:2:A3AE:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 16:44, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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I am very frustrated at the fact that so many sports articles are allowed to stand just because of SNGs, even at AfD, even when no significant coverage is shown. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:51, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
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Hi JoelleJay. In section " /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yiannis_Laouris" you contributed with a short message to the deletion of the above page, which has been online for almost 20 years. Your argument was that "No GNG coverage has turned up, and his citation metrics are way too low to meet NPROF". Over the years I have followed and contributed to this page following this individual. First, I believe that your judgment was based on the assumption that this person is an academic, which he is not! (at least not only!) On the contrary, he is one of the rare cases of an academic taking a leave from academia and making his boots dirty trying to make the world a better place. In my opinion, this alone should have been sufficient for notability! If you google and check his contributions you will discover that he has been an "attractor" for change-makers. More than 100 young people have conducted (unpaid internships with him. This individual has implemented over 100 social-change projects all funded through competitive grants. Most projects focus on social responsibility, education, and democracy. Note that very few academics manage to get 100 grants! Despite not being an active academic, he still found time to publish. Regarding notability, in my experience, the fact that he was chosen by the European Commission as one of 12 to draft the Manifesto for our ONLIFE world should have been sufficient. The live page had links to plenty of reliable secondary sources on these and many other achievements. I have noticed that different editors have been making different arguments, kind of throwing the ball from one to the other. One made the case that German sources were not "reliable". Wikipedia standards state clearly that secondary sources do not have to be in English. Before moving to the US, this individual studied in Germany. He was the first student ever (not just in his university but in what was then known as East Germany), to be awarded a PhD BEFORE graduating; Isn't that notability? We do not serve the vision of Wikipedia by deleting pages that have been live for 2 decades and have been visited by a few thousand people, without careful research. I would kindly ask you to review the matter professionally and revert your argument and decision. More importantly, I would suggest that after your examination you take the initiative and request the re-publishing of that page. Futuristas ( talk) 15:57, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
I wish you hadn't written this huge reply which he won't actually read (no more than he did the first you wrote), and which will distract him from my reply immediately above yours. Your reasoning of course is unimpeachable, but this is all stuff you already said, and, now that he's admitted his closing statement "may lead to interpretations that are more strict than is warranted", you should just go for something simple and straightforward. I think the best thing to focus on now is what I said just before you posted your reply, that is, to remove the original implication that NSPORT doesn't use the word "must". Since that is unquestionably a falsehood and much harder to defend than any of the other wikilawyer talking points which we're both familiar with, he'll remove it if he's reasonable. And, since much of subproposal 1's closing statement is associated to that false statement, removing the latter may open the door for more substantive changes. But trying to push a bunch of abstract and debatable talking points at once is unlikely to work given the inherent difficulty of persuading people online. Avilich ( talk) 00:58, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
I have to admit I am getting tired by sports issues. One example, even though back in October there was a decision to limit default Olympic notability to those who medaled, some editors have tried to argue that since we have articles on virtually every Olympian, we should keep any article on any Olympian that comes to AfD just because we have such a huge amount of articles on Olympians. Such arguments seem to negate the purpose of having actual sports SNGs at all, if people will ignore what they say and argue for a proposition of the articles we actually have. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:09, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
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