Per your request I have unprotected your talk page. Phil Sandifer undeleted the history a few days ago to use as evidence. If there were any edits that should have remained deleted (harassment and such) please let me or any other admin know. Welcome back. Thatcher 20:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Without prejudice to our doubtless differing views on the issues surrounding the arbitration, it is good to know you are still with us. Happy New Year.-- Docg 20:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Just want to say it's nice to see you on here. We've been on opposite sides and same sides so many times I've lost count. Just wanted to say ... I'm glad to see you here - Alison ❤ 21:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to see the red Giano II link blueified again. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 04:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I figured you would get what I meant. Risker ( talk) 22:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Good to see you back! I've added some more comments at
Wikipedia:Featured article review/Robert Lawson (architect) and (of course!) I've reversed your revert on Lawson. The explanation is at the Review - and it centres on the sources - my source trumps yours ;-)! I haven't been through the whole article - and I only picked on that section because the peacock claim of "The building has long been regarded as one of the finest pieces of architecture in Dunedin" did stand out somewhat. Regarded by whom and when? The source as now found reveals that the school themselves are making that claim. But this doesn't stand up against a Professor Emeritus, of the University of Auckland writing in the national Encyclopedia of New Zealand. I don't have the time or knowledge to go through the whole article, but if that section is typical, the rest of the article might benefit from checking for reliable sources; and, as you worked on it and know the sources, you are probably one of the best placed to do that work. Keep well. 00:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Bugger - forgot to sign properly
SilkTork *
SilkyTalk 00:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to have contributed to the success of its appearance on the main page today Victuallers ( talk) 17:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Ever heard of it? It came up in my bio of John Michael Wright, and I'm intrigued as to what it is. It appears as an important item on the resume of just about every great Catholic artist of the period, yet finding information is impossible. All I got was in Danish, of all things.-- Docg 12:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The Pantheon theory was my assumption so could well be wrong, it just seems an odd cold curved and open place to exhibit art - even today it is far from ideal. There is a better translation than mine here [2] although no information. Giano ( talk) 13:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I see that you authored a FA on Belton House and decided to ask you for a favour. I recently put an article that I wrote , Western Chalukya architecture into FAC, but it was not promoted. The reasons mostly had to do with grammar, prose etc. However, I felt that if someone like you could read my article, you may have some ideas that I could incorporate into the present article and improve its presentation, format as well. Hope you have the time. thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 14:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Since a crowd seems to have gathered here, I'll drop off my note here. Giano, I hope you dont mind. Thanks.
My 2 cents - I was away on a break the last month or so and I returned to see that the article had not been promoted. I must say that I am very surprised that it hasnt been promoted. The article surely needs some ironing for better prose. But beyond that I do not see any problems with the article that it should fail a FAC nom. Nor are the problems with the prose so great that it should fail the nom solely on those grounds. The article is probably the most scholarly piece you'll find about the subject anywhere on the internet.
imo, most of the 'concerns' expressed on the FAC was simply unabashed trolling and nitpicking than anything genuine. its a pity that dinesh failed to spot the trolling and continued to respond in all earnestness to some of the 'concerns' there. Sarvagnya 17:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I wanted to point a couple of things in the copy edits to the first para of the Evolution section.
I am a bit confused here. motif and articulation are both patterns except articulation includes projections and recesses (according to the authors I have referred to). what is the best definition of a motif.
Thanks Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 22:19, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano, Fowler has been warned by an admin that if he continues to disrupt FAC activities in any manner, he will be blocked. You have nothing to worry about now. Please proceed.thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 00:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, Giano, for lending Dinesh a hand on this article; it has been most painful watching this from the sidelines, as I recused myself early on because of some related issues, leaving it to Raul. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 17:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I did answer your question in italics above. Perhaps you missed it? The book clearly uses the term mystry. [7] Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 19:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the remaining section I promised, its ready and will be typed in today. Another reviewer wanted more detailed info on influence of WCA on other arch. styles. So I will try to club the two together. I will call it Influence and apprecitation. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 19:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I have set your rights for rollback as requested.-- Docg 09:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Was a little concerned when I saw it all blanked, my rattlesnake. Tony (talk) 12:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
May I go at your lovely FA essay? I'll keep the charming sense of humour intact, I promise. Risker ( talk) 22:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your kid words regarding Introduction to Evolution. It started a bit rough; but fortunately, our critics were for the most part specifically brutal. Which is fair, in that they responded as we made the corrections. I couldn't help but notice the immense frustrations in the rather lengthy thread above regarding an FA attempt. Actually I was browsing over FA attempts, looking to see if my drive-bye voters were doing the same on other pages, and read some of the commentaries related to the above. I hope those that are behind the sense trying to make it the best it can be; ignore some of the rather unspecific, non-constructive commentaries and continue to sort out the good from the bad advice. I found the FA attempt to be meaningful. What some seem to not understand is that it is the FA review process itself that contributes to an article being FA worthy; assuming one offers specific suggestions and not just derogatory commentaries.-- Random Replicator ( talk) 23:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
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The Surreal Barnstar | |
I award Giano this surreal barnstar for his funny essay which at times descends quite tastefully into stream of consciousness writing but in a way which is eminently readable and maybe challenges Tony's views on clear prose or maybe just reinforces it anyway it would make James Joyce proud you should read Ulysses one day I always meant to but only read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man...cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 02:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC) |
Hello Giano. I just found out a while ago that Wikipedia still didn't have an article about the Festetics Palace, one of the most famous and visited palaces of Hungary. In fact, not even the Hungarian Wikipedia seems to have it. Wow. *swoon* Anyway, I just started a stub on it but I'm a such a lousy writer you know, so if you happen to check it out and find it interesting, please consider sprinkling a pinch of your prodigious editorial skills. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 03:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I noticed your concerns here about the evidence I presented on some of the history between Tony, Bishonen and you among others. The introductory text was meant to be general; obviously, you don't have a long history of interpersonal disputes with Bishonen, for example, even though the way that text was originally phrased one could think that that was what I was saying. In any event, since I'm not presenting any evidence of off-wiki disputes I've dropped the mention of that altogether. -- bainer ( talk) 10:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Filiocht, author of some of Wikipedia's greatest FAs at the time, has the unique distinction of being one of the only prolific FA writers to be elected to the Arbcom. - what about Kirill Lorshkin (4), and what about myself (10)? Raul654 ( talk) 22:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
As the vogue seems to be for FA guides and inspired by yours (misguided though it is) I've produced my own. Yomangani talk 14:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes one can be really surprised - we've just worked up vampire for FAC (It is a little, erm, big though hopefully we can keep it in one piece) and in the process while sniffing out sources came across a couple of surprises:
Over the past 20 years I'd heard alot from various places on a link between origins of vampire folklore and porphyria, and it was only when I looked into it I found how tenuous the link was. In essence, one guy made a short paper at a conference in 1985 drawing some pretty long bowstrings and didn't proceed to publish it. Descpite being discounted by experts in the field, the media caught wind of it and it romped into popular culture.
There were plenty of other examples in this field along the way but that was the best. I guess it's why I like inline reffing now and......trust no-one......in an X-files sorta way...cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
The article on the Queen's House contains the statement "However, although its style is generally called Palladian, its most specific precedent is not by Palladio but rather Giuliano da Sangallo's Villa Medici at Poggio a Caiano." It's not referenced although, great buildings online alludes to a quote from Banister Fletcher speculating that "Perhaps modeled on the Medici villa at Poggio a Caiano". I'm a bit wary of Fletcher these days, don't have my copy to hand, and know that you and Wetman are quite the authority in these matters. What's your view? At the very least the article's statement needs some qualification, but again, we are discussing antecedants, and one academic's speculation may be as valid as another, unless we have Jones's diary containing specific and bountiful praise of the Villa Medici, it's difficult to see why that was singled out rather than other candidates - or just a synthesis of his study tour to your motherland. -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 12:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, thanks Wetman, I was just a little worried about you there, my Granny used to tail off like that after the third martini. Giano ( talk) 23:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Seems the claim was added to the article by an authority [9]. I think I'll see if I can email him. -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 00:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Alright buck! HNY an all that. What happened with the above - you get knocked back or is it ongoing?-- Vintagekits ( talk) 21:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano
I may admire your article writing, but your recent comments RE:Durova aren't helpful, in my opinon. You are, at this very moment, simply giving more ammunition to your detractors. Please, please, just back away slowly. There are only a few options here:
There is almost zero chance of anyone being swayed by your recent comments, and in my opinion they make it far less likely that any action will be taken regarding anyone else.
While you clealry don't know this IP from a hill of beans, is there no one who you may confer with on this? Someone you respect, but has less of a reuptation for intemperance?
152.91.9.144 (
talk) 00:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) To the question "What recourse is left?" I present several courses of action:
Note that there are currently no remedies in place even to be discussed, and that there is only one finding of fact that's passing. The "dialog" in this arbitration is running to waste products. This arbitration is a reactive one, and thus any outcomes are going to be clouded. It might be sensible to spend some time considering from scratch what the problems are and how to address them.
59.101.166.142 (
talk) 10:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC) (but really 152.91.9.144)
Someone wants to start from scratch? Someone already did. It's too bad, though, that no one cares about the problems. As for Durova, she's injecting herself into the discussion. Why she wants to be the center of attention is something known only in her own heart, but arguing, "I was never mean to the Arbs" is, at best, anecdote. At worst, it invites precisely the response Giano gave: "You weren't rude to the Arbs because you were caught doing something that was so horribly wrong that, if you had been rude, you'd have never gotten only a slap on the wrist." It's actually disruptive behaviour on her part to introduce an irrelevancy ("I wasn't mean" (implied: you're being rude to Morven)), or it's an attempt to get an apology for how poorly her own pitiful corse was treated. Either way, it's right and meet so to protest at her comments. If the arbitrators have halos around them, whereby none may approach without due obeisance to the sacred nimbus, then the rest of us should be warned. Otherwise, Morven is a user. Durova is a user. Giano is a user. On the other hand, these dire warnings are coming from IP's, which are not users. Utgard Loki ( talk) 13:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
You know, the ArbCom became a farce of a kangaroo court when the started referring to themselves as the "Committee" (capital 'C'!) and instituted a cadre of subordinate Clerks (capital 'C'!) to do their bidding. Somebody has to speak truth to power and say that the emperor has no clothes, and that the "Arbitrators" (capital 'A'!) are not better than everybody else. 75.116.4.29 ( talk) 23:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Since I've invoked Sir John Vanbrugh's name I thought I should alert you and the ArchHist Lurkers here to a very much expanded former limping stub, which would be improved by many eyes and hands. Do you know this house, which is only a name to me? How about the wainscoting designed by James Gibbs in the picture gallery? -- Wetman ( talk) 05:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
re. this. Isn't the advice to get an admin to do a 'history merge' rather than pasting in your work from userspace? -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 11:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
With regard to your article in development, a good source is "Lost London" by Hermione Hobhouse (Macmillan, London 1971). Contains a great deal of detail about the many grand homes of the aristocracy which were demolished in the 18th and 19th centuries to make way for an expanding city. There was an American edition published by Weathervane Books of New York in 1971 ( ISBN 0517167026). Sam Blacketer ( talk) 21:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
On 17 January, following a series of edits to Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Proposed decision, User:FloNight protected the page and added the following in an edit summary: "I protected the page from all editing until the case is closed or edits all agree to make all productive comments about the proposed ruling and not other editors". Flonight has not left any further messages as yet, so I am posting this message to all those who edited the page in this period, and asking them to consider signing this section at Flonight's talk page indicating that they will abide by this request. Hopefully this will help move the situation forward, and enable the talk page to be unprotected (with any necessary warnings added) so that any editor (including those uninvolved in this) can comment on the proposed decision. Thank you. Carcharoth ( talk) 05:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
One of the problems I think ArbCom has is institutional inertia (which is usually an advantage, except when there is a need to restore confidence). It was originally set up with the three tranches in order to avoid radical change (I think). The trouble is what do you do when radical change is needed? Newyorkbrad may have been elected with a huge amount of support, but he is only one voice among 15 (more in fact, when you include the retiring arbitrators and the past arbitrators who can post to the mailing list). The input of new blood to the ArbCom may not truly be felt until the retiring arbitrators finish the cases they are involved with. Also, while I understand the arbitration committee want to be able to consult past arbitrators on past cases and for advice in general, I think one hugely symbolic act they could make would be to restrict arbcom-l to just the current arbitrators, and have an emeritus mailing list that is for past and current arbitrators, with cross-posting between them as necessary. Maybe it will happen, I don't know. Carcharoth ( talk) 00:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)"Seriously, if the ArbCom was actually looking at itself or honestly examining the problems that lead to this latest debacle, the case would already be closed. Geogre said it quite well above, and the case has come to a stand still because the issues they originally wanted to pursue are no longer viable. Some brave Arb is going to have to step up and have the courage to put down actual and meaningful findings of fact and remedies, or like so many other recent cases, this is going to come to a sad, sputtering end with admonishments for everyone to play nice and no substantive or meaningful decisions." - AniMate
Wish I'd thought of this. KillerChihuahua ?!? 12:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Wanted your opinion on some edits to the section "Temple deities".
Hi Giano! Interesting image... what's the provenance of it, do you know? The description on en could stand a note as to where the image comes from, I should think. Also, once that's cleared up, do you have any major issue with the image being on commons so that when the article is translated into other langs the image can be used? ++ Lar: t/ c 23:33, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
OK I also uploaded interior and exterior views of that "The Temple of the Muses" booksellers, added them to the Lackington article and piled up some potential sources on the talk page of it. Lackingtons' autobiography (which I believe he wrote himself!) is available on Google Books for those interested enough to plow through it. The chap seems enterprising enough but not really my cup of tea. ++ Lar: t/ c 00:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I visited the Pena Palace this afternoon and, as expected, here are a few pictures I took at my favorite place in the whole of Portugal. Hopefully they will draw your interest into this palace and consider expanding its article (or stub disguised of an article, if you will).
For the first time I went inside the palace (mostly due to a mistake of three palace guards who for some reason thought that I was with a guided group of tourists passing nearby. They practically ordered me to join them and go inside, before I could explain that I hadn't paid for that access). Anyway, this time I wasn't as lucky as I was at the Queluz Palace. Surveillance is harder to avert so I couldn't take many pictures inside. But now that I know my way around, I'll have better luck next time.
Also for the first time, I visited the immense park surrounding the palace. Exploring Pena Park is quite a relaxing, yet thrilling experience. Particularly the fern garden, it makes you feel like you're in the Cretaceous. Some pictures of Pena park below:
Hope you like this. Best regards, Hús ö nd 02:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Amazing photographs Husond - they need a FA to go with them. I wonder if the Arbcom have a fighting fund to spring content-editors, such as yourself, from prison when arrested in the cause of Wikipedia's mainspace articles. I very much hope someone can one day write a page to do justice to them. At the moment I have no enthusiasm at all for writing for Wikipedia so I'm having a break from it all. Giano ( talk) 19:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey. I've been struggling to get any comments at my requested peer-review of Highlanders (rugby). I was wondering if you would be able to spend a few minutes reading through the article and adding any comments or suggestions here? Thanks. - Shudde talk 06:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Who cares? Giano ( talk) 21:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I was rather interested in that theory - I've heard it a lot - and I wondered what the evidence actually was. So here's some initial findings. Of the 15 current arbs 8 have userpage writing brags - many have impressive credentials:
Now, I suspect some of the others will also have impressive contributions - but are more modest. (And, you'll agree, having FAs etc is not the be all and end all of being a content writer.) Certainly, few arbs have the impressive record of the like of yourself, but then you are pretty well in the .01% of elite content contributors. But I'd certainly have to conclude that serious writers are very well represented amongst arbs. Indeed whilst non-content grunt work can probably get you through RfA, it seems that the community tends to choose content contributors to serve on its arbitration committee. I certainly think your claim "there are those of us who write, those of them who rule", is simply not supported by the facts. Unless you are implying that only the elite few of multiple FA writers are qualified to rule. Now, my research here is superficial, and can perhaps be rebutted otherwise.-- Docg 22:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
People acting out of their intellectual depth? On wikipedia? never.....(I'll turn off sarcasm now) cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Brags on a userpage don't impress me much (yes, I do it, but it's not how I want to be judged). I could have 40 DYK's instead of 4 if I'd heard of the DYK process a few months earlier, but that's neither here nor there. I do have to confess that my content contributions have dried up dramatically since I became an administrator, which is precisely what I vowed would not happen. I think I'm going to have to promise here to have an article on FAC by the end of February, so that people can nag me and shame me until I get around to doing it. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
However, this resulted in no consequence for LHvU, unlike the mere editors involved. Better he stick with his mop than waste everyone's time by precipitating another arbitration, then collecting irrelevant and time-consuming Evidence. Mattisse 18:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)...erm..gosh. do you wanna write a GA or FA then....cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
You and some of the kind readers of your talk page may take interest in the discussion here. Specifically, the exchange ongoing between Francis and I on the use of "old", "dead", archaic or hard to find sources. Lawrence § t/ e 23:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm noticing that some folks are doing odd things with the refs on this article, and I do recall that there was something unusual in the way that they were set up at the time (two sources with the same name?). Can you motivate yourself to take a look and/or explain the situation on the talk page? Greatly appreciated. Risker ( talk) 04:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind casting your eye over my rather embarassing attempt at Italian translation of here? Actually, the English could probably do with a going over too, if anyone's so minded :-) Joopercoopers ( talk) 11:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Please don't edit the proposed decision page. Thatcher 19:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I was going to leave you a message about Lawson (I e-mailed and it bounced back. It'll be saved at FAR—it really is web-based, AFAICS, and I'll do it myself, even if it takes a month or two).
And then I noticed the above thread. Do you want to be banned? That's neither rhetorical nor aggressive. I think maybe you do want to be banned—a last burst of POINT, so to speak. Editing Proposed decision is just providing a reason for arbs to agree to hardlines. They're just people, after all (I don't buy the cabal nonsense—if a cabal existed, Wikipedia would work better.) But even someone sympathetic is going to think "wtf do we do?—well, ban from this namespace, I guess." It will be horrible to enforce some of the remedies being discussed.
But you don't want to be banned from anywhere, right? I think you don't want to be. You talk a lot about the mainspace (and have contributed in kind). Do them one better and only contribute to it. Do it for a month—just mainspace, of your own accord—and who can argue with you? Offer it, and abide by it. Just a thought. Marskell ( talk) 21:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have blocked you for 8 hours for continuing to edit Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Proposed decision. You know you shouldn't; you are doing to prove a point; you have been asked to stop. Thatcher 07:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano, can I make you an offer? You frequently make some good points, but have sometimes raised them in the wrong way, or a way that causes drama and makes it less likely that the points you raise will be addressed (or even if they are, not without collateral damage). Could I ask whether you would consider making such points on your talk page first, and then see what others think? I often agree with you, and I could maybe suggest ways to make your points more effectively (or make them for you if I agree with you), and I think others could as well. I'm not trying to stop you making any of your points, but I am suggesting that anything that you feel outraged about might be better handled with a preliminary step like this. Would you consider voluntarily agreeing to work on the "outrage" issues like this for a few months, or even indefinitely if you find you prefer it this way? Carcharoth ( talk) 09:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Wetman, you are quite right, I had the two volume work produced by Sotheby's for the Easton Neston Sale (you must get it - it's your dream book) for Christmas. It is full (overflowing, in fact, with 18th century prints and 19th century photographs none of which have ever seem the light of day (well the internet anyway), but how on earth am I suppose to start a page when surrounded by morons intent on me being prohibited from writing it. I'd rather write it and have someone pay me for it, than have yet another page sink into the mud. Twice I have asked by email the "Arbcom" to revert drastic edits to existing FAs in the last week, both times they have failed to respond (perhaps they don't know what a FA is) or perhaps they want to see me and my works in the mud. Sad people. As soon as this current mess is over rest assured a normal service will be resumed. Giano ( talk) 21:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey, would you mind taking a look at this discussion. Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Sarvagnya 23:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't trying to bowdlerise Wikipedia at all. That line just seems a bit sarcastic to put in a factual article; after all, a stud book is supposed to be for pets and race horses. Moyabrit ( talk) 22:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
...to this? Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Tavern Your original post was pertinent to the case, although almost nothing that followed was. Please advise if you want anything back to the main talk page. Durova Charge! 00:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I see there looks to be some likelihood of this resolution passing [18]. Designed no doubt to prevent their errors and stupidity being publicly pointed out in future. Have the Arbs not yet seen the foolishness of their ways? No doubt the little, non-writing, Admins on IRC will have some kind of competition to see who can be the first to achieve fame by blocking me. Let's face it, fame won't come to them any other way. I'm afraid the Arbs were very ill-advised ever accepting this case. They now seem to want to cause even more mass disruption rather than accept they made a very silly mistake. One cannot really help them to see the error of their ways. However, when an entire case has been based on pure spite and revenge, I suppose one cannot really be surprised at the outcome. Giano ( talk) 12:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Reverting to English for the benefeit of the few who don't speak Italian here, the whole root cause of all the current trouble is here [19]. The only people who refuse to see that are the Arbs. Now I wonder why that is, that they feel this page is more important than the content of the encyclopedia? Giano ( talk) 19:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
(unindent)Well, you may find this an interesting way to start St. Agatha's Day [22]. It is somehow fitting that this aspect of the current brouhaha come to an end on the nameday of a Sicilian saint. Risker ( talk) 01:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, usually as a smug anglophone I can be happy with the dictum Englisch über alles except inthe field of mycology as most anglophones are mycophobes unlike the dedicated mushroom eaters of Italy, France and Germany and points east. Any italian lore that can be input onto Boletus edulis, Entoloma sinuatum or Boletus satanas among others would be much appreciated if you ever partake of funghi. It has been raining +++++ here for a few weeks and we have things popping up everywhere, but 95% of australian fungi are undescribed... :( cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
In case you all forget, and I disappear. [23]. Giano ( talk) 20:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Old messages are at
Essay: A few thoughts on writing Featured Articles
Au contraire - this is the much more light-hearted original cirteria, as Billy Joel is a much better judge of core articles than Wikipedia:Vital articles....cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 01:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Flo, I've left this message on your talk page, but perhaps it is best to put a copy of my thoughts here as well.
I too wish that Giano would stay and continue to participate in Wikipedia. From the perspective of the encyclopedia, he is an incredibly valuable contributor; from the personal perspective, I have learned a great deal about editing and greatly value the encouragement he has given me. Giano's mainspace edits are legendary, and his contributions on the meta side have significantly improved content and behaviour with respect to "The Troubles," addressing paedophilia-related activity on this site, abusive blocking and transparency here on Wikipedia. His meta positions have been supported by the wide community despite his sometimes excessive zeal; many who "opposed" Giano's election to Arbcom commented that he had the right ideas but his approach wasn't suited to being an Arbcom member. It is difficult to know whether the changes in Wikipedia culture could have been made without Giano's rhetoric and focus on issues. Let's compare the defense of !! and the granting of rollback to non-administrators: Both involved walking very fine lines and pushed the community hard into a new direction, with high-flying rhetoric and violation of WP conventions. Giano got warned for being rude and violating unwritten rules (which remain unwritten, as the community cannot come to a consensus on what those rules are); Ryan Postlethwaite was invited to join a special Arbcom subcommittee.
Just about anyone can make the list of administrators who would be watching every word written by Giano, ready to whack him with a block, whether deserved or not. One snippy comment in a FAR. One snotty response on his talk page. Another Eurocentric allusion that goes over the average American's head. "Obscene trolling: knows German" may well be the standard. Heck, there are several statements in his essay - a poignant and humorous final gift to our community - that would incite some admins to block him. And no AN or ANI discussion, just another report to WP:AE that nobody questions or reads. And if someone does question the block, then we're back to the drama that nobody needs - not the community, not Arbcom, and not Giano either. From that perspective, with such a huge "kick me" sign pinned to his back, who can blame Giano for walking away? Hundreds of others already have. Risker ( talk) 14:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The Remedy arbcom passed was always a poor one. I've criticised attempts to put Giano on civility parole before. The problem with it is it would allow hotheads to block Giano, and at the same time allow Giano (if he chose) to push at the bounds in search of the the drama of an unjust block. The remedy made Giano's departure unfortunately inevitable, and the only thing to do is to give Giano credit that he chose to leave like this, rather than waiting for the drama of being dispatched by a poor blocking decision in the future, which would have been far more disruptive for the community. However, neither will I be too hard on arbcom. Whilst there is an idiotic community minority on one side who want Giano gone or silent, and a minority on the other for whom Giano can do no wrong, most sane people badly want Giano to stay, and will defend his right to express his wiki-views, however, they don't want any more "Franken-Giano"ism. By that I mean Giano's tactic of: 1) using heated and polarising rhetoric 2) painting everyone who doesn't agree 100% as part of the problem 3) assuming that everyone critical of the methods and tone wants to silence the message 4) never admitting any wrong on his own part 5) assuming bad faith of anyone that dares to be critical. Basically, we need Giano to remember that the aim in every dispute is to seek some form of dispute *resolution*, not to wage perpetual warfare. Now, there is simply not any arbcom remedy that can compel that, that can leave Giano free both to edit and to comment, but compel him to comment in a different fashion. So arbcom can either do nothing (which has been what they have done up till now) or pass some unsatisfactory remedy that will doubtless result in him leaving. The only person who could have given a way out here was Giano. Had he indicated at any point that he'd reflect on the widespread criticism of his tactics (a criticism shared even by many who agreed with his messages) I would immediately have called for the case to be closed without sanction and sang "Alleluia". Even now, were Giano to even hint at a desire to proceed a little differently (or just to start doing it), I'd call for arbcom to remove the sanction immediately. Giano, if I can help you find a way back, you only have to ask.-- Docg 16:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I probably have no business weighing in here, since we've never been close, but that Southern Belle has an awfully large waistline and eyebrows in desperate need of a serious shaping and waxing, so I have a vested interest in seeing you stay around to replace that picture. How come Raul gets a great physique, and I get bushy eyebrows? :-))
I went through a singularly unpleasant experience one month ago in an ArbCom case, and as horrible as that experience was (do you 'spose the Arbs understand how awful it is?), I know it was nothing compared to what you've been through. From my read of things, you ended up there partly for defending Bish's honor; it's sad that should be necessary.
I'd really hate to see Wiki lose your writing and your presence. After what happened to me, I doubted for many weeks I would even want to return to Wiki or could find the restored enthusiasm and energy I used to enjoy here. I knew I couldn't come back unless I could find a motivation to continue with joy. Two things made a difference for me and brought me back in spite of the serious shortcomings we all have to deal with on Wiki: friends and a forced break. The bottom line is that, no matter how bad it can be, there are some really fine editors here on Wiki and they enrich my life. I hope the thought of interacting with other editors like Yomangani, who also took a long break and returned with enthusiasm, will help you find a way back to us. Because I was traveling to remote areas with limited internet access, I had a semi-forced break after the ArbCom closed, and that time off was crucial in helping me regain my footing. So please consider seriously taking time off to reconsider, and while you're thinking it over, you may find that the exceptional people you know on Wiki may come to mean more to you than the unpleasant things about The Way Wiki Works. You can always use the WikiBreak Enforcer to give yourself a pre-determined amount of time to think things over. Whatever you decide, I hope you'll be happy and be well. Best, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The subject may entice you, even though the little start I've made hardly sketches the outlines of the subject. Was a gabinetto always a close-stool or necessary? Was it ever a studiolo? -- Wetman ( talk) 12:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I just placed this quote on my userpage:
“ | ...my understanding of the Wikipedia project is that its strength comes from a vast number of people making small changes. However, the process self-selects to self-destruction - to wit, people who have lots of free time get the most power. But those people are usually the ones who are involved in order to gain personal prestige - the antithesis of Wikipedia in the first place. They're experts in the expert-less community.
So the community automatically becomes run by unstable people who care more about their personal power than the results. And this becomes impossible to stop, because reasonable people by definition will not be obsessed enough to fight the tendency. And therein lies the doom of a good idea. [1] |
” |
Not all, or perhaps even most, of the powerful accounts (admins, arbitrators, etc) in Wikipedia are unreasonable people. But, as the Essjay, BADSITES, IRC, Weiss/Overstock.com [25], and other episodes have shown, the few who are unreasonable and in positions of authority, and who seem to enjoy using "private" mailing lists and IRCs to further their personal agendas, often cause immense problems for the project and to those editors who are actually here to try to write quality articles or measurably improve article space in some other way. Giano is helping fight this and is often successful in doing so, to the great benefit of the project.
Notice I said "is" helping fight this, not "was" and I hope that this is still the case. Cla68 ( talk) 02:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is one of my favorite works of Ludwig Van's. It seems highly fitting and appropriate considering it is about one gallant hero's struggle against tyranny. Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic did it justice, quite unlike what the ArbCom did for you. I hope it helps inspire you to continue the fight in whatever manner you see fit.-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 11:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Meglio un giorno da leone che cento da pecora. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.0.99 ( talk) 16:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Been natural for once in my life
Now I'll have to swallow some pride
Know that I should never give advice
But it's too late now to say goodbye
Be natural don't want any friends
Be natural come on and hit me again
Be natural I'm repeating myself
Be natural is there anything else
Hiding T 22:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Giano. I was asked to write a signpost tutorial about how to get an article to featured article. This is my first draft. It is based on my own page: User:Yannismarou/Ten rules to make an article FA. It is today during writing the tutorial that I first read your own essay, which impressed me I must say. I would be grateful If you had the time to check the draft, offer any comments you would like, check the prose, and propose me any improvements you regard as useful. Thank you in advance!-- Yannismarou ( talk) 15:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, there is a "consensus" being manufactured in this critical article (it defines Wikis handling of inbuilt systematic bias). I strongly feel you should read the talk pages; look at the history and I'd appreciate your views on how to proceed or other advice. Regards, Sarah777 ( talk) 15:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, maybe you should add prophet to your resume. You saw this coming like global warming too. Yet another example of why you should be sitting on the ArbCom instead of driven away by it! So many of Wiki's problems could be avoided by heeding your sage words. But, alas, being a voice in the wilderness is one of a prophet's occupational hazards.-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 06:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Perchè non vieni qua a scrivere, se questi idioti rompono le balle? Super Giano ( talk) 13:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I know you may not be around to read this, Giano, but I wanted to share with you (and who ever else happens to stumble on this page) that Kosebamse has taken a look at the IRC case and posted a very astute analysis at his/her talk page. [26] You are missed. Risker ( talk) 15:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I hope you'll come back to us soon, Giano. Raul654 ( talk) 23:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You speak truth to power; We are less for your absence. I wish you well. -- SSB ohio 04:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
No one deserves the abuse that Giano went through. If he comes back, there will only me more malicious and organized efforts from those with tools to stop him from actively contributing. I support him leaving. Wikipedia is a heavily flawed project that is well on the path to self-destruction. 216.37.86.10 ( talk) 16:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano II. I'm not sure if we've met before, but alot of editors here seem upset about your pending departure. I'm curious, who are you & why are you leaving Wikipedia? GoodDay ( talk) 23:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
An article you've worked extensively on, Matthew Brettingham, is up for FAR. See here. Nousernamesleft copper, not wood 00:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, it is shocking and surprizing to see you have decided to go away. Please re-consider your decision, and do come back. - KNM Talk 01:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
It's true that I won't edit while Giano is under a humiliating and unreasonable restriction, but I'd like to get it on record that that is not the only reason I've withdrawn from editing at this time. It's only one out of three. The others are what I consider the corruption of the RFAR/IRC process (per
User talk:Kosebamse and the
dissenting opinion and
other commentsof arbitrator
Paul August); and also the disrespect and indignities with which the arbitration committee, bodily and in many cases individually, treated myself and my friends. Examples:
Not editing is not merely, or mainly, a demonstration to show my loyalty, Giacomo. Two thirds of it is that, finding myself kicked from the calm waters of "respectable admin" to the maelstrom of "problem user", and having seen from the inside how the top proceedings of our dispute resolution can be conducted, I just never seem to feel like editing any more. I know that you still value, and in some ways, love, the project. You're not really disillusioned about it like me. Well, we both have room to change, possibly.-- Bishonen | talk 20:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth I think you did the right thing. I hope you come back.
![]() |
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
I award you this barnstar for doing the right thing and standing up for what is right. Oreo Priest 16:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC) |
It's worth a great deal, thank you. Giano ( talk)
You will probably despise me for making the comparison, but in my opinion, yourself and JzG are among the elite Wikipedia editors for a simple reason: when you're not going off the deep end over something that tickles your bonnet, you both have the ability to take a dispassionate view, distill the essence into a very few words, and cover all the points in a readable discourse.
Congratulations on your excellent analysis. I would only have been able to muster "Yawwn" as a comment, you have done much better. Here's hoping you'll be back in force soon - but a calm force. A much wiser 'pedian pointed out to me that if you are getting emotional about something, it's probably better to let someone else deal with it. Again, my great respect for your contributions to Wikipedia, and looking forward to more of the same... :) Franamax ( talk) 21:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, this ex-arbonaut (are there suits?) felt like keeping his head down because he's had enough drama to last a lifetime. Thank you for what you said. Mackensen (talk) 03:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Now I am really unhappy...what is wrong with Australian Chardonnay??? XD Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:14, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
As you know being a key part of that crowd, the discussion was started, restored and is being continued by long running ax-grinders with Jimbo. Don't think others don't see through this. Transparently using 'concern' as a reason to air Jimbo's dirty laundry and create drama is by definition disruptive editing. For that reason alone it can and should be ended and archived. You want to discuss Jimbo's personal imbroglios? This isn't the place for it; do it offsite. FeloniousMonk ( talk) 16:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
This is what I meant by emotionalism not serving you well. Or us well. Maybe rhetoric or histrionics is the better term. Anyway, if you're getting pissed off, maybe best to ignore the wankers. You've got a great vocabulary. Bet you could improve an article :) Come on, try a small one! We tried Montreal for GA and got beat down, help us out! Franamax ( talk) 10:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The WP:SPADE Barnstar | |
For all your work around here in telling like it is, and making the Wiki a better place. You really are doing it, and we need more people like you. Not to mention your article work, of which I am eternally jealous. dihydrogen monoxide ( H20) 11:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC) |
Though I too am full of dihydrogen monoxide, I haven't written any FAs at all (or, come to think of it, even got a PhD). Ah, how depressing. Though that's outweighed by my delight to see you back, Giano, and in fine form. Your reappearance might encourage me to nudge something FAwards, were it not for the fact that I'm about to head off to some sceptred isle off the far west of Eurasia. While I'm over there enjoying the novelty of computer-free, smokefree pubs, could you possibly pop this in an envelope and send it to Bishonen? Thank you and toodle-pip, Hoary 16:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano II. I had asked ('bout a week ago) as to who you were & what all the fuss was about. GoodDay ( talk) 17:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
If you want Administrator Newyorkbrad, to gives his views? by all means contact him. GoodDay ( talk) 22:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
After just being both insulted and threatened by Catherine? I depart this discussion. PS- Mr Wales created Wikipedia, but he doesn't run it. If he tried to? he'd violate Wikipedia's spirit of community & collaboration. GoodDay ( talk) 20:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
OK. We need some clarity here.
See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Giano_II. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 13:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
No Lar, you are quite wrong. today I have seen these edits [31] [32] [33] and many other similar from those supporting a certain viewpoint in the Troubles dispute, because I have another view on how to solve the problem. The fact these people have been trying to solve the problems with limited success for God know's how long is neither here nor there. If I point it out I am a troll, if I object the Admin Brown Haired Girl tried to have me banned on the civility thing. This is exactly what Ms Nite and her less than glorious Arbs hope to see happening. You see the more the little Admins complain, the more I appear the disruptive one, quite clever of them really, and that is why I stopped editing for so long, but then I thought sod them, the Arbs vindictively and spitefully created this mess, now they can sort it because it will happen again and again and again. If I behaved like this [34] our amazing arbs would gleefully call it trolling, except of course in this instance its one of their Admins, fortunatly on this occasion other editors sent her packing with a flea in her ear, while the brave Arbs wrung their hands in mock horror. Giano ( talk) 20:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I was going to pop by and offer you a cup of tea, but it looks like a bit of Irish whisky might be more appropriate. ;-) Is it just me or does it seem a little odd that all the people complaining about this situation are unable to meet the description of uninvolved administrator? Ah well. Never a dull moment with your talk page on my watch list. Risker ( talk) 15:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Some people may remember my friend !!, while he has left, there is always a chance he may return. He cannot is he has been deleted. You may like to comment either way here [35]. Giano ( talk) 16:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I notice you are editing a bit. (I hope you're following your own advice and keeping the mainspace in mind...)
Two months on, I'm still trying with the referencing on Robert Lawson (architect). I have a hold of Mane-Weoki (1992) and was hoping it would match the article. Eek, it doesn't. Not that the descriptions are totally different, but there are divergences. Do you recall what your primary source for the article was, if not that one? Cheers, Marskell ( talk) 19:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the note. Marskell ( talk) 15:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Just letting you know I've fully protected User:Vintagekits for three days. Since the talk page in this case probably isn't an ideal location for discussion, I started a thread at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Brief protection at User:Vintagekits. Will leave everybody I see as involved in the dispute the same message. Feel free to comment. :) – Luna Santin ( talk) 09:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
you on some kind of probation? -- Damifb ( talk) 16:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you want to talk it out on the talk page instead of calling it trolling. No Wikipedian should call a well made edit "daft", especially not one on civility parole. I have thick skin, but I hate to think that you might treat other Wikipedians with such contempt.
I don't think it is a good idea to assume the reader knows the subject before they have read it. Sometimes people look things up in the encyclopedia because they are ignorant of a fact. (1 == 2)Until 22:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Interested in your views on Arbcom. They made a ruling in a case I was involved in - that terminology cannot be applied to a historical event unless the exact terminology was used at the time of the event (despite the terminology not existing back then) - even if the event meets precisely the modern definition of such terminology. This you may or may not find interesting; though I guess you are forbidden to comment by the geniuses above at Arbcom. Sarah777 ( talk) 23:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I understand why you could be upset at john, but this is a little disapointing. I saw it as some kind of threat - you should know that taking things elsewhere isn't what we do here. I personally have a lot of respect for you and I honestly thought you were way above this - just take a step back and think about things for a minute. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I was reading this evening and came across a reprint of a copper engraving of the Winter Palace. My first impression was that it was vaguely palladian in its style — the pillars, the portico-like entrance, the long narrow building — but it appears from our article on the palace that I was wrong, and it is rococo (not one of our better articles, I'm afraid - very disorganized and somewhat confusing), which in turn appears to be an offshoot of baroque architecture. Having "followed the links" further, I agree that Winter Palace more closely resembles Sanssouci, particularly in its ornamentation. What, besides the ornamentation, differentiates rococo architecture from palladianism? I have a feeling I am missing something rather major here that simply isn't clear in the articles. Risker ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, remember me from my last FAC? Well now I have the above article in FAC. Tony1 objected to the prose and Taxman wanted more info on certian issues (which I am working on). If you are available, I think your experience will help in better organizing, presenting and polishing this article. If you are busy, can you point me to someone who could help me. I left messages for users: Awadewit and Willow, but with no luck. thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 21:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
No Doc, like so many in that channel, you misunderstand - I'm only nterested in those who are ex-admins and non-admins in the channel. Thanks for the info though. ,ost kind. Giano ( talk) 23:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
You have been blocked for 31 hours for repeated incivility at User_talk:FloNight and other locations in breach of the recent Arbitration ruling.
Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement for details.
FT2 ( Talk | email) 02:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I have copied the #wikipedia-en-admins access list into your userspace. See User:Giano II/access list. Everyone on that list has access to the channel. Just to give one example entry:
This is the entry for user:Betacommand. The number immediately preceeding his name (5, in this case) is his access level -- the higher the number, the more things he can do. A minimum of 5 is required to get into the channel (or, more precisely, to invite yourself into the channel). The time code following the name is the amount of time, in days/hours/minutes/seconds, since that user logged into the channel. Raul654 ( talk) 07:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Here's the other list, the on-wiki one, back to normal sized print. See User:Giano II/Onwiki list. The names in black are people who have not been in the channel for the past half year or longer. The bold ones are non-admins, but there are a few not marked that way. Not sure what bells and whistles you have in your preferences or monobook, but if you cursor over the names, you should be able to verify which channel name goes with which member; there are quite a few differences. Risker ( talk) 08:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Giano it doesn't matter how many times a paranoid man shouts "conspiracy", it doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how many times you say you are being censored for your opinions, it doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how many times you claim that your civility isn't arbcom's main issue, it is. Now here's the facts - the access list is open - and all the information you want is public. Has someone compared the access list to #en-admins with the admins on en.wp? Perhaps not. But then we have no paid civil service here - people research what interests them. If this interests you, do the leg work and make a list. As to "have major changes been made to en-admins?" The honest answer is no. And none are likely in the foreseeable future. It was debated at length (I believe) - there was no consensus for any major change. You are not going to like that, but there it is.-- Docg 08:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
FT2: What' was "incivil" in Giano's comments. Please be specific. Giano has many comments on FloNight's page. There is a satire of her continued silence. Was that "incivil?" Was there a characterization of her motivations, mentality, words, etc. that was scandalous? I see repeated questions... well, one, actually... and continued "no one is going to answer because the answer is already somewhere else." Again, there is no basis of this block. Furthermore, 31 hours is a non-standard time. How did you arrive at that? Isn't the usual to begin with, perhaps, 12 or 24? I see no justification for this at all. If "any admin may block on any perception of incivility" is in force, may "any admin unblock?" Is there some magical force where any single administrator gets to determine for all others what is not allowed in speech on Wikipedia? Can we say, again and again, that pictures of David Shankbone's penis are perfect, because we're not censored, but this piece of speech (a question) must not be allowed? When that speech is interrogative and does not involve charges of real life illegality, etc. (no "you're a Nazi/Communist"), it cannot be instantly blockable. If you want to see someone merely trying to get anger, look at the bottom of my user talk page. Giano was trying to get a user to answer about why that user thought something was a good idea one day and a bad idea the next, and why the "resolution" of a case by ArbCom was abandoned without a word to the community. Those are legitimate, and it is poor service (what ArbCom is supposed to be about -- service, not power) to keep running away and blocking the questioner. Geogre ( talk) 10:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Any time I think of actively contributing to the mainspace, I just visit this page. Thanks for helping me come to my senses, FT2, and anyone else involved in this game. SashaNein ( talk) 13:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Doc g raises a good point about other issues being just as important, if not more so. Anyway, I've just been reading through what happened (though not in great detail). Giano was a bit aggressive with his questioning, but I would like to point out that the arbitration committee are also role models, and more so than Giano. What behaviours are people learning when they see the reaction shown here by arbitrators? Regardless of how people perceive their own behaviour, that perception isn't always what other people remember or learn from an incident (presuming that there is anyone actually watching all this). Some people will, wrongly, think that blocking for asking questions is now OK, or that extreme politeness is needed to avoid blocks (well, with some people it is). I think the best thing to do is for people to carry on talking constructively to each other, and for someone to produce regular updates on what is happening with IRC. I've been vaguely following things (I saw the subpage in Cbrown's userspace, and the list Ryan linked to is also good), and some progress seems to be being made, but not being on IRC I can't definitely judge how things are going in there (specifically in the admins channel). I would also suggest that the arbitration committee not overuse the magic panacea of forming subcommittees and task forces. Sometimes they just need to be decisive or restrict themselves and let the community deal with the rest of the problems. Carcharoth ( talk) 13:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I have requested clarification in the IRC arbitration case here and named you as an involved user. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
My dear friend Lord G,
I am feeling restless and unsettled today. I have been trying to read the writings of a Mr. FT2. Have you heard of him? Well, I must say, he tends to go on and on....and on, until I can no longer stand it. I feel I would rather clean the stables! I will be riding later this day if you care to join me.
Your friend and neighbor, Lady E
Your email on Wednesday lifted my spirit. ;-) Let's talk more and see if we can figure out the best approach to take. I'll email you in the morning with some specific ideas to see if you think that they will work. Take care, FloNight ♥♥♥ 02:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Thanks for your message about assessing Little Moreton Hall, Kedleston Hall & Ascott House as start class when reviewing all National Trust houses for the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums. As you know these things are a subjective judgment & we are still developing the criteria at: Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums which you would be very welcome to participate in. They are all good interesting articles, but as you requested a few comments on other things which could be done. Little Moreton Hall - well referenced, but more could be said about the contents (as opposed to architecture) & NT ownership (eg when did they aquire it & how) - I have put this one up to B class. Ascott House & Kedleston Hall are completely unsupported by inline citations & I feel these are needed before they could make B class. I would personally add an infobox using Template:Infobox Historic building, but as we discussed on Brympton d'Evercy I know you dislike these. I hope these comments are useful.— Rod talk 14:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks LHVU, but all that mop and bucket stuff, I have never used a mop and bucket in my life, and fiddling about with vandals and civility, categories, filing, table manners and telling people what to do, sounds like a cross between a school teacher and a housemaid - not my style at all - I like to please myself - I suppose none of you know how I can upoad a doc.file? You may as well make yourselves useful seeing as you are all admins. Giano ( talk) 17:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
You mean a .doc file I take it Giano? And we aren't all admins. I take it you mean you can't upload an image with .doc, in which case you have a technical problem, give me a shout if you want a hand with technical problems and I will see what I can do. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
[54] Whisker? Don't make me put a lolcat picture on this page... Risker ( talk) 22:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, Giano... you may not have had as many edits to Chris as some of the other folk I'm thanking, but you had loads to do with it just the same. Thank you, my friend. Enjoy your free pass (see right), I know I am going to! And stop bribing E! ++ Lar: t/ c 22:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Helo - I've followed some of your articles which are very good - you use images a lot. Can you point me the right way to sort out the copyright problem. I uploaded a picture I made here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pluralitas.jpg
which should not be a problem, but the warning message does not give precise instructions about how to fix it, just links to various long and incomprehensible online documents. Help gratefully appreciated. Latinist ( talk) 11:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I want this deleted [55] can someone do it for me, I have speedied it with good reason, but others seem to feel my reasons are not good enough. Bisnonen, Geogre, someone anyone - can you do it for me - Thanks. Giano ( talk) 22:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I understand what you mean about the brighter pictures, but do you agree it would be better to have a picture without a cherry picker crane in the foreground? Pete Richardson ( talk) 06:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough - I hadn't considered the relationship of the text to the pictures. The lighting wasn't perfect in mine, but I do think the composition was more agreeable. However, given the status of that page, it doesn't deserve to be messed with on a whim, my apologies. Pete Richardson ( talk) 07:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I liked it there so much that I'm sure I'll go back some sunny day. Very good point for the pictures on here, I'll bear that in mind in future. Many thanks for your comments. Pete Richardson ( talk) 08:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
There's not enough information in the image to remove the crane entirely, but I've minimised its impact a little until somebody takes a nicer pic (or until somebody is prepared to spend more than five minutes removing it from the image). Yomangani talk 10:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
This [56] has displeased me greatly, unless the Arbcom want to see an immense amount of incivility they had better turn out and vote to save it because I no longer have the original on disc! Giano ( talk) 18:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) Sorry Kelly, I did not read the full history of that Southcote image, and missed that someone else had converted it some time before. One issue that has been seen quite often here on en-WP is that people upload images, often for future use, they get moved to Commons and deleted here, and then they get deleted at Commons but there is no notification to the initial uploader that their image is now nowhere in Wikimedia space. Giano is not unique in his wish to keep images on en-WP; quite a few others have encountered this problem over the last few years. As well, finding moved images on Commons can be quite a Byzantine task due to the differences and irregularities in classification. It's more a reflection of different processes on the projects. Risker ( talk) 17:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
In fact, I created a special template for that. After the Neil incident when he was blocked for not wanting his images moved to commons, there was a discussion that ended up that the deletion policies were modified. Now, the mere presence of the image in Commons no longer requires the deletion of the local copy. Just place {{ KeepLocal}} on your images (that what I do) or place {{ NoCommons}} if the image is already copied there but not yet deleted.
Some editors, like myself, don't wont to deal with commons for the reasons I stated elsewhere. Also, there is indeed a lot of confusion with commons' ever changing and fluent policies, its capricious admins, spurious rules of checkuser access and, location and mislocation of images.
You cannot force anyone to not copy any of your commons-compliant images, but you can at least make sure, that the local copies are kept here. HTH, -- Irpen 21:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The "wrong" with these people, Giano, is what we all know. They don't come here to write the Wikipedia but for social reasons: chat, make friends, chatmore, make a "career", write bots, "write policies", go 'round telling others what to do (or to put it another way "enforce policies" whimsically), invent the awards and award them to each other, chatmore, reverse the RL hierarchy, disparage the "timid and ill-informed populace" at the "private" channels, post there diffs and talk like they own the place, etc., etc., etc. I am not saying anything that you don't yet know or, perhaps, even said yourself.
But as for the images, legally speaking anyone has the right to copy the freely licensed image to commons. That often this is done with violations, that is the uploading history not being preserved, is another point which happens less now. You have to be prepared to see any and all of your images copied to commons. But you can make sure that the local copy is retained. This is my suggestion: use this template. It worked for me. I even succeeded asking the bot-owners to respect the "KeepLocal" and "NoCommons" templates and not tag the images for deletion. So, the images won't be "moved" but just "copied". As for copying, why not for what I care? -- Irpen 22:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Giano II. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion can be found under the topic Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User using rollback tool to edit war. Tiptoety talk 00:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
check it if you like, and accept a sincere apology if you'd like.... moving on now.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Risker (your rollback not working?) [58], but I was not born yesterday, and had just finished typing my acceptance speech. Now the world will never get to read it. In view of recent events, and an offer made to me, privately, which I am considering, PM was being very perceptive. I have decided to help share that great burden which Jimbo has so manfully and with such panache hitherto carried alone. All of you rank and file common editors must not regard me as changed, and if you want to talk to me at any time, my chief-of-staff Ms Bishzilla's undersecretary will advise on a place for you to wait as I walk past. My use name will name be changing from Giano to User: Oh Holy and most gracious One, but don't clutter up my talk page with your dull trivia about pages and content as it is now reserved for important people like Arbcom members who will want to post there begging favours etc. Wikilove and warm greetings etc. etc. etc. to you all . Giano ( talk) 06:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC) )(aka: Oh Holy and most gracious One ( talk) 07:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC))
Hi Giano, I was watching another thread at WP:ANI when I saw the one about rollback and you, then made a passing comment without paying much attention to who had started the thread. Anyway I wanted to let you know, I would have likely commented no matter who was being talked about and as it happened, reading the thread was helpful to me because it made me aware that current practice here on rollback's threshold of use is not vandalism, but non-controversy/no need for an edit summary. Given this a) your use of rollback has been utterly a non-issue as explained in the thread but b) at least the thread was helpful in bringing me up to speed on the consensus about rollback! Cheers. Gwen Gale ( talk) 17:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the support. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 20:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I see all of the images I took for West Wycombe Park have disappeared from Wikipedia to commons without so much as a word - this is really pretty bad, how can they be deleted from Wikipedia with no word of notification. Now they are only on commons and this one Image:West Wycombe 3 (Giano).png " released into the public domain by its author, PNG crusade bot at the wikipedia project" Well bolox to that, I am its author, if I copy a book to do I suddenly become it's author? Giano ( talk) 12:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
This policy of deleting Wikipedia images as soon as they are uploaded to commons will end in tears - you see if I am not right, may be not this year but one day. From now forward I shall just upload with the {{KeepLocal} template, but for how long will that be good? Here for instance Image:Tong Castle Shropshire.jpg has whizzed of to commons - why - I have not even finished the page for which it us destined, I may well upload a better version or never use that one at all. No one on Wikipedia ever looks further than tomorrow - I upload potentially useful images all the time, I stop the car and photograph useful buildings all the time, now these people want to upload all to commons and delete others as orphans because I have not yet had the time or inclination to write the page - what sort of clever policy is that? This Kelly is just going through every image I ever upoad - thousands - why? I have better things to do with my time than keep logging into commons to see if Wikipedia has decided to throw away the images I upload Giano ( talk) 21:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
being less shy and retiring than I probably should be, I thought I'd pipe up here (although I'll be careful how I sign!) - in truth, there's an unspoken movement which is gathering pace to move all images to commons - many people cannot understand why 'english wikipedia' should have images at all - they all should be available to all of the projects, is how the thinking goes. Not really having thought about it, but having had pic.s nearly deleted from commons without my noticing (my fault mind, wrong / missing licensing stuff) - my jury's out. It's not being discussed anywhere (why bother, when you can just go and do it!) - and to be honest the way the tide seems to be heading to me, we simply won't have local images in a year or so..... just a tuppence worth.. Privatemusings ( talk) 21:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Well this particular bot has a button on it that will blow it up [61] except when I pressed it, like all things on Wikipedia it can only be destroyed by an admin - so you go an press it Geogre - and give it a kick from me while you are there. 22:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you use Excel? The software, not the verb. Risker ( talk) 13:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
For your information, Windows XP is an operating system, while Excel is an application program that runs under the OS (in this case, a spreadsheet program). They're both by Microsoft, so naturally they're pieces of crap, and you should use something better that's open-source. But how is this relevant to Wikipedia? *Dan T.* ( talk) 16:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
My wife has found out the hard way that squirting WD40 into me doesn't really fix things. Still, done the right way it does render me unconscious for a few hours, which provides a welcome hiatus. If she were to squirt in a very large quantity maybe it would fix me for good. If anyone's interested, Dan T. is on the money when it comes to XP, but (open-source) OpenOffice so sedulously apes MS Office that there's not much between the two behemoths. Except the price: a lot for legal MS Office, zero for legal OpenOffice. This difference makes the choice simple for me, and the clincher is that MS Office won't run on my computer. Anyway, OpenOffice displays XLS files. ¶ 'Nuff of that. I've recently been disturbed by the mediocrity of articles on buildings -- Pitzhanger Manor, Wotton House, Moggerhanger House, etc -- designed or remodeled by John Soane. I've done some fiddling with them and hope I haven't thereby messed them up, but somebody much more knowledgable about architecture (Joopers, even Giano?) would do a much better job, I'm sure. -- Hoary ( talk) 23:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello. A user asked to be removed from the access list of the admins channel, and also asked to be removed from a few on-wiki copies of this access list, for privacy reasons. Two of those pages were in your user space. I have removed the two mentions of the editor in question: here and here. I hope this is okay with you. - Mark 05:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I am being trolled here [62] by an Anon. I don't want to be incivil perhaps an Arb wpuld like to deal with it! Giano ( talk) 18:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
reported your unhelpful attitude to me as a new user to Jimbo! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.19.104 ( talk) 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi again, If you feel Palazzo Pitti is high importance please feel free to change it, however you could take a look at The "importance scale" on Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums/Assessment which says "Major Museums of specific types" & "Well known Museums" are Mid with "National Museums", "Types of Museums" & "International Museum Organisations" are High. It would be great if you would join the discussion about these at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Museums where perceptions of "greatest paintings" can see if they get general acceptance - but I don't think the sites selected for your ashes will make it into the criteria.— Rod talk 19:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Please stop the edit war over at User:Vintagekits. There is absolutely no policy in WP:BP or anywhere else that supports either view in this rather trivial incident to get excited about. Most blocking admins do tend to replace the whole userpage with the blocked template, because;
Please leave the page as it is now. It is really not worth warring over and getting blocked over. Thankyou. Lra drama 10:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I can help. El_C 13:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I happened to notice you were working on the Winter Palace article - there are a lot of freely-licensed images here. If there are any you would like, just let me know and I'd be happy to copy them to the project for you. Kelly hi! 12:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I grabbed some interior shots - not sure if you can use any of them but have a look when you get a chance:
This is just a sampling of some that I was able to dig up...if this is the type of thing you're searching for, or have any special requests, I will be happy to try. I found many interior Hermitage shots, but I'm not sure if you're interested in any of those or just strictly the Winter Palace for now. Kelly hi! 16:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The piano nobile images are only plonked there at the moment so I remember what is what. Giano ( talk) 16:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I think Renaissance architecture is in need of protection! You are doing a noble job there, but it the problem appears to be never ending. Amandajm ( talk) 07:00, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
You might want to weigh in on the ANI discussion here - Alison ❤ 08:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
That's twice in 24 hours when I have unequivocally agreed with you - MONGO and Vintagekits. Obviously Bishzilla has burned some sense into one or both of us. Guy ( Help!) 15:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support in my RFA, that didn't quite make it and ended at 120/47/13. There was a ton of great advice there, that I'm going to go on. Maybe someday. If not, there are articles to write! Thanks for your support. Lawrence § t/ e 17:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
How's it coming along? -- Counter-revolutionary ( talk) 19:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, just letting you know I removed your section in the arbitrators voting section. As I hope you can understand, to leave such comments there will create a major headache in many cases to come. I'm sure the arbitrators will see your most recent comment via the use of a subsection, which will appear in the table of contents (and stand out a tad!). Edit summary; happy to discuss if you disagree. Cheers, Daniel ( talk) 12:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
You are in danger of violating WP:3RR, further reverts will result in blocking [67] [68] [69]. (1 == 2)Until 22:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
That's most kind, thank you for pointing that out. What a sad day when we can no longer ask one of our Arbs a straight, honest and civil question. When exactly were you promoted to the Arbcom 1=2?, or are you just some form of staff? Giano ( talk) 22:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I know from history that you endorse the fact that Wikipedians are allowed to remove content from their user talk pages, this is also accepted by the community at large. I would grant this courtesy to any user who was having a message repeatedly reverted back onto their page against their will. You have done well to chose a neutral and topical venue to re-post your concerns, your posting at Wikipedia talk:CheckUser is a perfectly reasonable way to pursue these concerns. Thanks. (1 == 2)Until 22:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Giano, but calling other editors stalkers and such failure to assume good faith is exactly what you have been warned against by the arbitration committee. Combined with edit warring on another editor's talk page and trying to bring a disruptive dispute elsewhere; this behavior will have you blocked swiftly unless you desist immediately. — Coren (talk) 22:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Reason: Violating Arbcom civility parole, editwarring, gaming the system, and disruption. If you want to contest this, use the {{ unblock}} template. Kwsn (Ni!) 23:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I think Giano's stalking comment was his way of saying that 1==2 seemed to be following him around Wikipedia - ie. wiki-stalking (I don't actually think that was the case, but those with large watchlists sometimes give that impression). This is, of course, completely different from being stalked in real life. When 1==2 said "consider I have been stalked in the past", I am unclear what type of stalking he is referring to - wiki-stalking or real-life stalking? Anyway, as a compromise, I suggest that someone set the block to expire before Giano gets back. Might avoid drama all round. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I have unblocked Giano II because it seems to be a consensuns what the block was improper Alex Bakharev ( talk) 23:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Please discuss mine and Kwsn's actions on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Giano_II Alex Bakharev ( talk) 00:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks all of you, friends in need are friends indeed! I shall be away for most of today, when I return I expect the matter to be sorted. I have 100% evidence that this block was called for and orchestrated on IRC#admins. I expect those admins concerned to no longer have access to IRC by 17.00 GMT today. If they are still there, then we shall have to discuss fully why, and what can be done to resolve these ongoing issues, but hopefully that won't be necessary. This is exactly the sort of disruption the Arbcom planned with their petty sanction, let's just see if they truly want to prolong this now regular disruption. I am in contact with one of the more reasonable Arbs, or at least one who seems anxious to calm troubled waters, so hopefully a solution is at hand. Thanks again. Giano ( talk) 06:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Utgard, very succinct as always. I have just posted the following on ANI, but i think things are more read here, si I will ost my views here too:
I am not opening a debate with FT2 on the block - it was wrong - end of story. I 've had quite enough of his prevarication and doublespeak. The block was organized and inspired on IRC, rather than in discussion on Wiki, as it should have been. I had already remarked on the the coincidence of 1=2 being constantly at my shoulder, with his clever comments, a couple of days before. My comment to 1=2 was in fact quite good humoured, any fool could see I was clearly not suggesting that he is following me about in Ragusa with a poisoned unbrella. This sort of troublemaking block orchestrated on IRC, will be the last such there. I am now completely resolved to see that pointless chatroom cleaned up or closed. They have had their chance. A couple of weeks ago FT2 informed us there was no problem (remenber he had to block me to prove the point for asking). Well now we know he was either lying or mistaken, frankly it matters not which, in short he has have blown his chance. We can all see now there is a problem, and if he and the Arbs won't tackle it, then I will. That also includes the foul mouthed discussion which took place there after the block. I have logs from three separate sources and continents all identical. If the Arbs refuse to ban editors from IRC who abuse the chat room, then that chatroom must be closed for the good of the project. I will not be shut up by Arbcom members such as we have, trying to hide problems. Giano ( talk) 12:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
As you write this, please remember that if you make edits that are personal attacks or assumptions of bad faith, you may be blocked, per the arbcom sanction. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
It had nothing to do with what was discussed on IRC. DS ( talk) 01:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
(okay) DS ( talk) 01:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The above is a stage managed converstion, in what is clearly a desperate attempt to redeem themselves. It fails. Giano ( talk) 05:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
These comments are clearly uncivil and make an assumption of bad faith. [72] [73] [74] Can you give a reason why you should not be blocked for making them? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Giano, again I ask you: Do you have an explanation for why you shouldn't receive a block for what appears to be intentional incivility, and assumption of bad fatih? You seem to have gone out of your way to express yourself offensively. Surely you don't think that doing so is appropriate. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I just can't get over the impression that the recent set of escapades at this page by some above is nothing but trolling in the purest form of the distressed editor. I was looking for any other explanation and could not find it. I am not supporting everything Giano, although I think his heart is in the right place on most issues, but even with his mistakes I can't make sense of what is happening here.
Just two recent examples. Giano created a placeholder for an essay at his talk. No content yet and CBM plants this. Does this look helpful by any stretch?
Next, ANI thread several hours old seen by hundreds of admins. Seems to have cooled down and suddenly this. Or is it just me?
I am trying hard to find any other reasonable explanation and I can't. Is it possible that this is so simple? I know that "trolling" is a strong word but that I am not alone in seeing this activity as such makes this unpleasant explanation ever more plausible.
Sigh. I doubt it was the ArbCom's intention to sanction that kind of activity. Or was it? No, can't be. But why then the arbs don't react? -- Irpen 05:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to warn all relevant editors against provoking and biting Giano as well as Giano against being easily provoked Alex Bakharev ( talk) 05:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just read most of your essay, "A fool's guide to writing a featured article", which I found highly enlightening and entertaining! An article I'm currently working on, Elaine Paige, has been put up for a peer review by myself, but it hasn't really sparked much interest. I was wondering that if you had some time to spare (I know time is always of the essence here on Wikipedia) could you perhaps briefly skim the article and give some suggestions for improvement? If I'm feeling brave enough, I might even nominate it for FAC, it depends really. If you haven't the time, then no worries. Many thanks. Eagle Owl ( talk) 19:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Want something to take your mind off IRC stuff? Why not try reading about the 19th century scientists I've been creating stubs on? Have a look at Augustus Matthiessen, George Fownes, Thomas Snow Beck, Martin Barry, and John Allan Broun. What do you think? Carcharoth ( talk) 23:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
[76] What a lovely sight. I shall mark my calendar for April 28th - and reserve the evening before for vandalism patrol. Risker ( talk) 07:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[77] FYI. Avruch T 16:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The AE thread has been closed. I think (and others agree) that this was essentially a continuation of the long discussion about the past block/unblock. There were many questions and comments about that block/unblock. The continued queries about different aspect of the issue blended in with the block discussion kept the discussion going long past the time of an ordinary discussion about a block/unblock.
I hope everyone that asked and answered a question about the block will reflect on whether continuing the discussion was helpful or caused more stress. Less (from everyone) can be more... :) Have a nice night. Take care, FloNight ♥♥♥ 23:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano you may remember me from the day a chance remark on your talk page led to me being blocked indefinitely. As you may know, I am appealing my block to the Arbcom. Only one problem: they are ignoring every email and communication I am making with them, despite having invited me to make this appeal in December. If there is any help you or your friends could give, I would be so grateful. Yours, Peter. Peter Damian ( talk) 17:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted your addition of this, since it seems to have been added with no reason. There should be either a specific discussion about this on the article's talk page, or there should be a pointer to a more centralised discussion, since I see you have added this message to many such articles without any good reason for it being added given. DDStretch (talk) 21:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I am asked to draw your attention to this: WP:AN/I#Derogatory comments in apparent contravention of an Arbcomm ruling. DDStretch (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Question - is there a different meaning of enfilade besides the one the link leads to? Perhaps something more architectural? This definition just doesn't seem to fit very well in this sentence: "Designed as an enfilade and a ceremonial route to the throne room, the processional route begins with an external horseshoe-shaped staircase which leads from the court of honour to the open gallery known as the Gallery of Hercules." Just seems a little odd to have a combination ceremonial route and firing range, but what do I know about medieval castles? Risker ( talk) 05:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Giacomo, do you remember this link on your page ? A call for help indeed. I'm worried about it. Bishonen | talk 10:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC).
As a courtesy, I would give you notice I have made a request here to amend the wording of your parole. I do this without any expectation that you are at all interested in such details, or that you would expect it to effect you in how you conduct yourself.
...but then, I'm not doing it for you! ;~) LessHeard vanU ( talk) 13:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano, well done on starting this one. I have added the Palace of Westminster, with plan and description. Feel free to re-write if you wish, as given your architectural expertise you are better placed. By the way, I note all the shenanigans that regularly take place on Wikipedia and therefore offer you tea and sympathy...
with a shout of "More power to your elbow!" As you were, then. FClef (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano you may remember me from the day a chance remark on your talk page led to me being blocked indefinitely. As you may know, I am appealing my block to the Arbcom. Only one problem: they are ignoring every email and communication I am making with them, despite having invited me to make this appeal in December. If there is any help you or your friends could give, I would be so grateful. Yours, Peter. Peter Damian ( talk) 17:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Giacomo, do you remember this link on your page ? A call for help indeed. I'm worried about it. Bishonen | talk 10:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC).
I found this really interesting story about the joys of being on the main page. No dongers so far, or at least if there was one I missed it, but all the rest seems to be coming true. Have a good Monday. Risker ( talk) 06:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, as you probably know, this Sunday the Easter also arrived to the Eastern Orthodox world. To mark this event and make a small present for you, here is the great piece of one of my favorite Ukrainian painters depicting this event in my homeland as he saw it a little over 100 years ago. Enjoy! -- Irpen 07:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Well said, sir. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 20:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
You can sometimes find a good article mixed in with all the junk and junque. I just found De Rays Expedition, and it's pretty neat. Utgard Loki ( talk) 18:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Please clarify your remarks at User talk:Peter Damian, either on-wiki or by email. Thatcher 22:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
You might find this little outfit to be just what you need for those interesting little tête-à-têtes you're so fond of [78]. I think the colour would suit you. Risker ( talk) 22:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Tsk. That's a clear conflict of interest! :-) I took a quick look for other Giano's, and I found your kingdom, sir, a writer on the On the Dignity and Excellence of Man, your holiday home, and a disambiguation page that needs expanding. By the way, if you ever do apply for the mop, make sure you tell people that you are this super-admin! :-) Carcharoth ( talk) 09:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Those terms are fine by me, they should appease the sceptical as they look pretty weasel-proof (I like the idea of including clauses against even trying to wikilawyer them). If he will sign up for that, I think it will be a good result for the project. Only one thing: the subject area might eb slightly wider, perhaps including all sporting articles not related to the Troubles, broadly interpreted. I think he wants to work on Olympic subjects other than just boxing, but I could be wrong about that. Guy ( Help!) 09:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I've added the Bastard pics of the Bastard study in the Bastard house, but the sizing is all to cock. Can you fiddle please Giano? Captions probably need tinkering with as well as I don't know my cornicing from my coping. Cheers Jasper33 ( talk) 20:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
A few months ago I was able to, through lengthy discourses with arbcom-l (ones which especially emphasized their own responsibility, publicly), to arrange for a new approach toward dealing with pro-pedophilia activists (including self-declared ones). The result was highly positive: these were to be banned on sight, and all discussion (including appeals) were to be facilitated in private with the Arbitration Committee. For months and months the new policy worked without any substantive objections from admins, not to mention outright rebellion.
Que in Carnildo a few days ago who went to unblock a recently-banned self-identified account ( blocked by Dmcdevit). The account was re-blocked a few days later by an AC member ( Morven), although unfortunately with zero consequences or even a warning from our benevolent Committee. Then today, Carnildo maintains that he "would have reacted more forcefully if the user hadn't apparently left the project a month ago", adding that "there's no real point in fighting a battle for someone who isn't here anymore." Which seems to be a declaration of rebellion with the AC and their decision, and a willingness to "fight" it out in the future (including undiscussed unblocks, ones not cleared with the AC).
Therefore, I am going to ask that the Pedophilia RfAr (which infamously desysop'd Carnildo for having blocked both yourself & yours truly indefinitely for "hate speech") to be reopened so his conduct is examined and his sysop flag removed for breach of ethics. Any thoughts? Best, El_C 21:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I note your statement here with interest. Are you able to point me to where BHG was warned for using her admin tools to block Vk? I'd be interested to see that. What are you trying to achieve here, to score points over admins you've disagreed with, or to write an encyclopedia? Can you honestly say, hand-on-heart, that allowing Vk to edit again is likely to be a net benefit to the project? Please answer here, I'll watch it. Thanks in advance. -- John ( talk) 15:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I've seen that you've contributed before to the Mary Seacole article, would you like to become involved again? Rudget ( Help?) 17:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. As I wrote in my e-mail, here are a few pics I took yesterday at Quinta da Regaleira. I hope they draw your interest to this most astonishingly remarkable place.
Best regards, Hús ö nd 15:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
[81] Always great to see excellent contributors turning over a new leaf. Let's hope this is a model for addressing similar situations in the future. Risker ( talk) 13:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Would you be interested in Albert Memorial? I've taken it as far as I can (well, maybe a bit more on the history from the nice online history), but the architectural stuff is a bit beyond me. Any advice? Carcharoth ( talk) 14:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Greetings, Giano. I notice that you've done a lot of work on Libro d'Oro, even to supplying a self-made image of a copy. Do you happen to possess, or have access to, a copy of the most recent (22nd) edition? Over the past few months a user named Mctrain (now indef blocked as a sockpuppet of the original Vitus Barbaro proponent, Tiki-two) has been readding a bunch of dubious material to Barbaro family and elsewhere—you may have noticed his activities on various Italian villa articles. Now that he's gone, at least for a while, I thought I'd start trying to clean up some of the material he's introduced. The main source he's cited for the material relating to the Barbaro family and various members thereof is Spreti's Enciclopedia storico-nobiliare italiana, which I can, without too much trouble, get my hands on to check his contributions. But he's cited the Libro d'Oro to introduce another mention of Vitus B., and I can't locate a local copy of that. He's not above playing fast and loose with sources; he likes to cite difficult-to-locate ones, and when he created an article about the supposed Vitus B.'s supposed mother, it took me some effort to track down the sources he cited, only to find that not one of them mentioned the lady or supported any of the information in the article. Anyway, if you can give me any Golden Book help, I'll appreciate it. Deor ( talk) 22:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I got there from Bishonen's awards page and just assumed that if it had an award it must be in mainspace. I only read the first two lines of the article and noticed an "unencyclopedic" phrase which I rectified. Then I read a couple more lines and suddenly realized I was reading a parody in user space. Egg on face there I'm afraid :/ Gatoclass ( talk) 08:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. Good to know you think I’m reliable enough. I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Best, Risker ( talk) 16:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
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The Featured Article Medal | |
For all your contributions to featured content, especially the articles related to New Zealand architecture. Thanks for all your work. Shudde talk 13:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC) |
Thanks for uploading Image:Addlebook.gif. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.
Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI ( talk) 15:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Although you opposed me in my recent RFA I will still say thanks as from your comments and the other users comments that opposed me I have made a todo list for before my next RFA. I hope I will have resolved all of the issues before then and I hope that you would be able to support me in the future. If you would like to reply to this message or have any more suggestions for me then please message me on my talk page as I will not be checking back here. Thanks again. ·Add§hore· Talk/ Cont 16:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I've written this article as an attempt to introduce the articles on DNA, Gene and Genetics in a completely non-technical and approachable way. I was looking for some good editors with no background in science to look this over and advise me on how it could be improved. Would you have time to help with this? All the best Tim Vickers ( talk) 16:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Where are you, Giacomo? Bishonen | talk 21:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC).
It's a factual recitation of the outcome; dispute it elsewhere if you must. Thatcher 14:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I see from the above section that things are heating up again round here. Should I go and upload some pictures I have of French chateaux, or should I go read about the latest developments? Sorry if this strikes the wrong tone, but coming back from a holiday and seeing the same old disputes going on is rather tiresome. Maybe Arbcom should be limited to behavioural disputes that affect article content, rather than disputes that are just interpersonal disputes and don't affect articles? I'm as guilty as many of typing far too much in project space and project talk pages and noticeboards, but the old saw about "writing an encyclopedia" is as true now as it was then. Carcharoth ( talk) 18:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
About your recent frustrations, may I recommend either a sustained period of content editing or a proper break? I find a complete break for a week or two really does help, and so does content editing. I wouldn't worry too much about your reputation or that of arbcom. Well, when I say that, I mean that your reputation is the only one you can really affect, and I wouldn't worry about those people who are too inflexible to change their minds. Better to let your (editing) actions speak louder than words for those who are prepared to change their minds, and to let arbcom do their work - no-one can agree with all their actions and decisions, but specific (and calm) criticisms are better than generalised and hurtful comments. It is clear by now to anyone watching that you disagree with their decision in your case, but at some point you have to let things go. That's my advice, anyway. Talk to it about people off-wiki as well, including arbitrators as well if you are still prepared to talk to them - I think you will find some of them (including some of those that you are maligning) are more approachable off-wiki than on-wiki (it is understandable that many arbitrators are more formal on-wiki, and some are just, to be frank, overworked or no longer interested, from what I can see). Hope that helps for what it is worth. Carcharoth ( talk) 06:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thatcher, how do you mean "dispute it elsewhere"? Where would that be? As Ryan points out, it's a closed case. Seriously, where are you advising Giano to dispute it? Mmm? Bishonen | talk 19:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC).
In accordance with Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC#Civility:_Giano, you are blocked for 3 hours for making edits which constitute uncivility, personal attacks, and/or assumptions of bad faith at User talk:Bishonen. Stifle ( talk) 15:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
While I support you in general, Giano, I think altering the decision pages of completed ArbCom cases is not a reasonable thing for you to do. There are some ArbCom decisions that I myself think are ridiculous, but I don't go around trying to change history by altering the pages announcing them. *Dan T.* ( talk) 22:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Turns out that Artichoke2020 had in mind to start his own personal list of potential FAR candidates, and was starting from the Arts&Architecture section, so your next potential FARs were first, but not alone; he's now asked to have his list speedy deleted. Perhaps someone got him to stop by pointing him to Sandy's existing list of articles that will go to FAR? Eventually those articles will either have to be re-referenced or de-featured, but I'd follow Sandy's expectations rather than this editor's. She's just heading out on holidays or I'd ask her what her usual practices are, but I think it's adding one or two articles a week to FAR. Risker ( talk) 20:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Talking of vegetables, I discovered that the Loire Valley is famous for asparagus. The vegetable of kings apparantly, thanks to the Sun King himself, who made it a royal dish. Sadly, Wikipedia doesn't yet seem to have cottoned on to this. Actually, no, I will have to eat my esparge shoots, as our article Argenteuil does mention the connection, though Sologne does not (lots of asparagus grown in the sandy soils there). And yes, we do have User:Asparagus. We also have the original User:Artichoke (the account was created but has not been used yet), and doubtless as many other editorial culinary delights as people are willing to keep typing in... Carcharoth ( talk) 21:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I've just read through Belton House and wanted to say what a great job you've done! However (not to dampen the mood), I was wondering if you'd be able to re-upload the pictures in anything other than .gif files, as they seem to have lost some of their colour? Regards, Craigy ( talk) 05:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I am aiming to nominate this article for GA and to be a FA on 21 June. If you can suggest any improvements to the article please let me know.-- Vintagekits ( talk) 12:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
See here. I noticed cos someone stuck a ref in the article (without closing a ref tag). Carcharoth ( talk) 21:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, how are the duties of being a great and famous Wikipedian treating you? I just finished a featured article project this evening and was wondering if you wanted to make a push on the Winter Palace. I was tinkering away a bit on it tonight. -- JayHenry ( talk) 03:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Ciao, ti avviso che l'articolo Holkham Hall è stato proposto per la rimozione dalla vetrina. Sei pregato di partecipare alla discussione o di migliorare la voce - anche dato che io voglio tradurla in italiano. Felice di conoscere un'altra persona della mia nazionalità =) Mojska all you want 07:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Gino, I am new at this so sorry in advance for any mistakes! Regarding your comments on the Saunders Goode Mansion in Town Creek Alabama...I agree with the majority of them. However, I feel that you should be aware that I have seen the house many times in person and done extensive research on the history of it and...Yes...It has been altered drastically. Many things which are now prominent to the house were not even features in the original construction. Sad that such a magnificent home is now left to run down and decay! Not to mention the fact that it was altered this way in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.214.15 ( talk • contribs) 15:02, 13 June 2008
Thanks Wetman. It's always sad to see an old house in such a state of dereliction, whatever its architectural value. If you click on the image and look at it properly it is in a sad state of repair - pity. I am still stupid enough to think buildings have souls, well some, so I hate seeing them in disrepair - is there not an "Historic Buildings of Alabama Society" lots of botoxed ladies to give charity balls to save it? Giano ( talk) 19:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
When you get the chance, you might want to check this and this out. -- Dragon695 ( talk) 02:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
And does edit! I've just learned that as a museum, Sir John Soane's Museum is of low importance. I'd never have realized that, if it hadn't been for Wikipedia. I'll toss my various books about Soane's works into the trash over the weekend. Thank the gods for Wikiprojects; they do such a good job of standardizing articles! -- Hoary ( talk) 15:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Nude on a clamshell? <quizzical frown> Oh, hang on, you mean The Birth of Venus (Botticelli), right? You know, I can't really imagine "Giano" as a tour guide in a museum, though come to think of it, maybe I can start to visualise it if I get the right atmosphere and audience. Hmm. Wikiversity has already been started. Wikimuseum doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but you never know. Or Wikitourguides or something? Carcharoth ( talk) 12:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I've started to expand this a couple of days ago. I'm really enjoying it and I'm glad I found a lot of online material for it. Feel free to join in anytime you feel thrilled for it. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 16:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Is? Ceoil sláinte 22:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll undelete it for you - it was sent over to Commons. Risker ( talk) 10:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I have reverted a recent comment on yours because it "outs" another editor who chose to change accounts for a justifiable reason. Please don't do that. Feel free to reinstate the comment without that particular piece of information if you would like. Rockpocke t 16:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh Kittybrewster here [92] that was just an inspired guess, he was calling himself the milkman the other day, one never know where one is with that duplicitious crew, and don't tell me what to do! Giano ( talk) 18:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that when things get too boring and drama-less we can always count that if 1=2 is not around, Rockpocket would be happy to replace him to inflame things by blowing up every issue related to Giano through escalating provocations, warnings and block threats. Why can't these two just leave it to others to patrol Giano escapes me. -- Irpen 19:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I asked the question at ANI. See, Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Rockpocket_blatant_abuse:_can_desysop_be_made_with_lesser_hassle_than_going_through_ArbCom.3F. Hopefully, this can be handled swiftly. -- Irpen 19:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I am not going to edit war with you, but please do not call my removal of your comment "trolling". Assume good faith and realize I did it to protect the privacy of other Wikipedians. The last thing I want is to inflame the situation, and I resent your constant implications that I am every time I have a differing opinion than you. 1 != 2 20:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to bring up the whole kerfluffle regarding the accounts you linked. I'm just going to ask you NOT to add the section again to CR's talk page. You've been asked by the talk page owner not to add that statement again. Please respect their wishes THIS matter as a favor to me, ok? If you want to discuss the other side of this, you have my email, right? SirFozzie ( talk) 21:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I'm going to copy what I said in the ANI discussion.
1=2, you're not on the right track here. Kittybrewster decided to make another account due to what he considered a threatening atmosphere on WP due to past history (actually, considering the amount that has gone under the bridge, I think that word should be all caps and bolded, like HISTORY). Now, that would have been fine, except the new account did all the same things that KB did, and showed a remarkable amount of prior knowledge of the people, personalities and issues of the prior history. To be quite frank, to the extent that any "outing" occured, KB/Berks did it to himself. You're allowed to call the Elephant in the Room an elephant. Endorse the unblock.
That part, you are FULLY in the right on. But after CR asked you to not post on his talk page any more? After you were already at 3 Reverts on CR's talk page? Giano, listen to me here.. you WERE being disruptive. Look at what I said above. Look at the fact that even folks like Ryan agree with the block for DISRUPTION, not for outing (and it's only 3 hours.. if I had waited a few more seconds, you would've been blocked for 24!). I truly AM on your side in all of this. Just don't post that part on CR's page any more.. it's counterproductive, man. SirFozzie ( talk) 22:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I (as Risker and others do) have some considerable trouble with the notion that someone gets to start over, over and over, changing names but not habits. This editor has been warned, by some who know the new identity, that they need to discontinue their old ways, old editing behaviours, or there will be someone who will put 2 and 2 together again. Doing sums is not in and of itself a reason for blocking, I don't think. But I do agree with those who point out that there are more effective ways of raising the issue than edit warring. The issue needs raising, make no mistake. But no style points to you, Giano for the moves this time... maybe a bit more finesse next time? You've used more finesse than this in the past, you know you have. ++ Lar: t/ c 23:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
What I have found out so far is that Kittybrewster felt he had received a threat to his safety, and switched to a new account in an attempt to improve his privacy. I'm not sure it was officially "approved" so much as this is a courtesy we extend to many editors and I believe he informed a few checkusers/Arbitrators. As far as I can tell, the account(s) were not used abusively (no double-voting or commenting as if he was two people). Kittybrewster appears to be an editor in good standing--no outstanding blocks or bans, so I don't see this as being a problem. Of course, he continued to edit in an identifiable manner, which is no one's fault but his own, and I think any charge of "outing" is patently ridiculous. At this point Kittybrewster has declared an intent to open another new account, and he has been warned that it is no one's responsibility but his own to maintain his privacy, and if he edits in an identifiable manner he will not be protected. I don't know whom he feels threatened by; perhaps he would tell you his new account if you asked.
I have mixed feelings about the blocks. In my version of an ideal wikipedia, you would post your comment, then someone would tell you "He is trying to quietly use a new name for privacy, it would be polite to respect that" and you would do the polite thing and drop it or pursue discussions privately. I think C-r is within his rights to ask you not to post to his talk page and to remove your comments. I do not think it was necessary or wise of Rockpocket and 1=2 to appoint themselves defender of C-r's talk page. I think it was also unnecessary and unwise for Rockpocket and 1=2 to appoint themselves defenders of Berks' privacy, as Berks' gave away the game himself through his edits. The first block for "outing" was unacceptable. By the time of the second block you had been told that KB had adopted a new account for privacy reasons; it would have been far better to pursue inquiries quietly or to just be polite and let it drop. Instead, having poked the anthill with a stick a few times already, you gave it another good poke to see what else you could stir up. So the perverse result is that the second block was reasonable, but that you wouldn't have acted in that manner but for the first block (maybe). I don;t have any simple solutions to this.
Thatcher 23:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, I just can't help but bring up a recent incident over a totally different editor who attempted to start over because the comparison is really obvious. An editor who does write a lot of content and sources his edits, has, at the same time, some obvious POV issues and is prone to edit warring. His block log reflects that but nowhere he was close to being banned from the site. Now, a certain admin took it upon himself to monitor that editor closely for whatever reason. So far, so good. The said admin decides that the editor needs to be blocked for 10 days at some point. I cannot comment on that since I was not following that user's edits. Perhaps a block was justifiable. Now, it gets interesting. A user waits out his block and after the block runs out, starts a new account and abandons the old one. After a while, an edit pattern similarity becomes suspicious to an admin and he leaves a permanent mark in the user's block log through a 1 second block pointing out to the old account to make sure, the user carries on the block log from the old account.
Now, we are not talking about a talk page message that can be removed, admin-oversighted or even fully over-sighted. We are talking about a permanent block log earmark, something that was removed only once in the Wikipedia history. Apparently, it was considered OK, despite WP:BLOCK explicitly prohibits blocks whose sole purpose is leaving a negative record. I did not see the said admin reprimanded in any way.
Giano did much less, left a message at talk about something so blatantly obvious and about an editor so blatantly disruptive that does not even compare to the case above. Apparently, this user has "permission from Rockpocket" and this makes a whole lot of difference. Giano gets blocked indefinitely, Rockpocket remains unapologetic and 1=2 is all over pages to cheer the Giano's block. Now, if this is all how things are supposed to work, Wikipedia is deeply screwed up. -- Irpen 23:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
You're retiring? Caught me off guard, too say the least. GoodDay ( talk) 00:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano I commend you on your efforts today, You are not the only one who is aware of the situation that is going on see here. BigDunc Talk 01:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano, Rockpocket requests that I do not post at his page. He did not have to ask since I already said all I have to say that is discretion blocking needs conferring, blocking an editor indefinitely on the whim should result in desysopping and admin's unhumble demeanor always make matters worse. But I just want to make an unrelated observation regarding the further exchanges you had with that fellow.
Now, there seems to be an argument as to who said what and when in your email exchanges with him. I think the problem here is that this email correspondence occurred in the first place. I recommend against talking off-record with people who might misrepresent you at some point. Talking onwiki has this beauty of an easy to check who said what and when and no BS flies. People who talk off-line with untrustworthy individuals open a possibility of this "you said in the email to me that..." stuff. Do you remember how Durova managed to dupe Alex into believing that her action against !! was prompted by an ugly email harassment campaign against female editors and when Alex ask for clemency over her because of that she retracted that stuff claiming that she never said that making Alex look like a fool? It is best to keep all correspondence with the individuals who might later misrepresent you onwiki. Just a suggestion. -- Irpen 21:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I left a message for your question on the talk page. sincerely Gryffindor 21:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I have not participated in the RockPocket debate at all (there are already plenty of participants and plenty of teh dramaz), but I have been following it pretty closely. From one editor to another, I would strongly urge you to just let it go at this point. Whether it's fair or not, if you keep pressing this issue it's just going to get uglier and uglier, and it could come back to bite you, and hard. I have no comment about the thread itself -- only that pressing the issue on ANI is not going to result in anything positive. It really is just not worth it.
Best of luck, whether you decide to continue or not. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 15:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
It was more fun hearing listening to you rant about how incompetent the arbcom it than it is to see the current proof of it.
Kind of like the difference between having a light conversation about how one thinks that his neighbor may be a little touched in the head as opposed to the reality of seeing that neighbor alone in his apartment, wearing a tattered robe and mumbling incoherently while surrounded by stacks of old newspapers and cat poop. Versaversa ( talk) 12:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Per your request I have unprotected your talk page. Phil Sandifer undeleted the history a few days ago to use as evidence. If there were any edits that should have remained deleted (harassment and such) please let me or any other admin know. Welcome back. Thatcher 20:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Without prejudice to our doubtless differing views on the issues surrounding the arbitration, it is good to know you are still with us. Happy New Year.-- Docg 20:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Just want to say it's nice to see you on here. We've been on opposite sides and same sides so many times I've lost count. Just wanted to say ... I'm glad to see you here - Alison ❤ 21:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to see the red Giano II link blueified again. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 04:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I figured you would get what I meant. Risker ( talk) 22:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Good to see you back! I've added some more comments at
Wikipedia:Featured article review/Robert Lawson (architect) and (of course!) I've reversed your revert on Lawson. The explanation is at the Review - and it centres on the sources - my source trumps yours ;-)! I haven't been through the whole article - and I only picked on that section because the peacock claim of "The building has long been regarded as one of the finest pieces of architecture in Dunedin" did stand out somewhat. Regarded by whom and when? The source as now found reveals that the school themselves are making that claim. But this doesn't stand up against a Professor Emeritus, of the University of Auckland writing in the national Encyclopedia of New Zealand. I don't have the time or knowledge to go through the whole article, but if that section is typical, the rest of the article might benefit from checking for reliable sources; and, as you worked on it and know the sources, you are probably one of the best placed to do that work. Keep well. 00:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Bugger - forgot to sign properly
SilkTork *
SilkyTalk 00:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm happy to have contributed to the success of its appearance on the main page today Victuallers ( talk) 17:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Ever heard of it? It came up in my bio of John Michael Wright, and I'm intrigued as to what it is. It appears as an important item on the resume of just about every great Catholic artist of the period, yet finding information is impossible. All I got was in Danish, of all things.-- Docg 12:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The Pantheon theory was my assumption so could well be wrong, it just seems an odd cold curved and open place to exhibit art - even today it is far from ideal. There is a better translation than mine here [2] although no information. Giano ( talk) 13:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I see that you authored a FA on Belton House and decided to ask you for a favour. I recently put an article that I wrote , Western Chalukya architecture into FAC, but it was not promoted. The reasons mostly had to do with grammar, prose etc. However, I felt that if someone like you could read my article, you may have some ideas that I could incorporate into the present article and improve its presentation, format as well. Hope you have the time. thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 14:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Since a crowd seems to have gathered here, I'll drop off my note here. Giano, I hope you dont mind. Thanks.
My 2 cents - I was away on a break the last month or so and I returned to see that the article had not been promoted. I must say that I am very surprised that it hasnt been promoted. The article surely needs some ironing for better prose. But beyond that I do not see any problems with the article that it should fail a FAC nom. Nor are the problems with the prose so great that it should fail the nom solely on those grounds. The article is probably the most scholarly piece you'll find about the subject anywhere on the internet.
imo, most of the 'concerns' expressed on the FAC was simply unabashed trolling and nitpicking than anything genuine. its a pity that dinesh failed to spot the trolling and continued to respond in all earnestness to some of the 'concerns' there. Sarvagnya 17:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I wanted to point a couple of things in the copy edits to the first para of the Evolution section.
I am a bit confused here. motif and articulation are both patterns except articulation includes projections and recesses (according to the authors I have referred to). what is the best definition of a motif.
Thanks Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 22:19, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano, Fowler has been warned by an admin that if he continues to disrupt FAC activities in any manner, he will be blocked. You have nothing to worry about now. Please proceed.thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 00:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, Giano, for lending Dinesh a hand on this article; it has been most painful watching this from the sidelines, as I recused myself early on because of some related issues, leaving it to Raul. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 17:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I did answer your question in italics above. Perhaps you missed it? The book clearly uses the term mystry. [7] Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 19:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the remaining section I promised, its ready and will be typed in today. Another reviewer wanted more detailed info on influence of WCA on other arch. styles. So I will try to club the two together. I will call it Influence and apprecitation. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 19:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I have set your rights for rollback as requested.-- Docg 09:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Was a little concerned when I saw it all blanked, my rattlesnake. Tony (talk) 12:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
May I go at your lovely FA essay? I'll keep the charming sense of humour intact, I promise. Risker ( talk) 22:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your kid words regarding Introduction to Evolution. It started a bit rough; but fortunately, our critics were for the most part specifically brutal. Which is fair, in that they responded as we made the corrections. I couldn't help but notice the immense frustrations in the rather lengthy thread above regarding an FA attempt. Actually I was browsing over FA attempts, looking to see if my drive-bye voters were doing the same on other pages, and read some of the commentaries related to the above. I hope those that are behind the sense trying to make it the best it can be; ignore some of the rather unspecific, non-constructive commentaries and continue to sort out the good from the bad advice. I found the FA attempt to be meaningful. What some seem to not understand is that it is the FA review process itself that contributes to an article being FA worthy; assuming one offers specific suggestions and not just derogatory commentaries.-- Random Replicator ( talk) 23:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
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The Surreal Barnstar | |
I award Giano this surreal barnstar for his funny essay which at times descends quite tastefully into stream of consciousness writing but in a way which is eminently readable and maybe challenges Tony's views on clear prose or maybe just reinforces it anyway it would make James Joyce proud you should read Ulysses one day I always meant to but only read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man...cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 02:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC) |
Hello Giano. I just found out a while ago that Wikipedia still didn't have an article about the Festetics Palace, one of the most famous and visited palaces of Hungary. In fact, not even the Hungarian Wikipedia seems to have it. Wow. *swoon* Anyway, I just started a stub on it but I'm a such a lousy writer you know, so if you happen to check it out and find it interesting, please consider sprinkling a pinch of your prodigious editorial skills. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 03:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I noticed your concerns here about the evidence I presented on some of the history between Tony, Bishonen and you among others. The introductory text was meant to be general; obviously, you don't have a long history of interpersonal disputes with Bishonen, for example, even though the way that text was originally phrased one could think that that was what I was saying. In any event, since I'm not presenting any evidence of off-wiki disputes I've dropped the mention of that altogether. -- bainer ( talk) 10:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Filiocht, author of some of Wikipedia's greatest FAs at the time, has the unique distinction of being one of the only prolific FA writers to be elected to the Arbcom. - what about Kirill Lorshkin (4), and what about myself (10)? Raul654 ( talk) 22:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
As the vogue seems to be for FA guides and inspired by yours (misguided though it is) I've produced my own. Yomangani talk 14:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes one can be really surprised - we've just worked up vampire for FAC (It is a little, erm, big though hopefully we can keep it in one piece) and in the process while sniffing out sources came across a couple of surprises:
Over the past 20 years I'd heard alot from various places on a link between origins of vampire folklore and porphyria, and it was only when I looked into it I found how tenuous the link was. In essence, one guy made a short paper at a conference in 1985 drawing some pretty long bowstrings and didn't proceed to publish it. Descpite being discounted by experts in the field, the media caught wind of it and it romped into popular culture.
There were plenty of other examples in this field along the way but that was the best. I guess it's why I like inline reffing now and......trust no-one......in an X-files sorta way...cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
The article on the Queen's House contains the statement "However, although its style is generally called Palladian, its most specific precedent is not by Palladio but rather Giuliano da Sangallo's Villa Medici at Poggio a Caiano." It's not referenced although, great buildings online alludes to a quote from Banister Fletcher speculating that "Perhaps modeled on the Medici villa at Poggio a Caiano". I'm a bit wary of Fletcher these days, don't have my copy to hand, and know that you and Wetman are quite the authority in these matters. What's your view? At the very least the article's statement needs some qualification, but again, we are discussing antecedants, and one academic's speculation may be as valid as another, unless we have Jones's diary containing specific and bountiful praise of the Villa Medici, it's difficult to see why that was singled out rather than other candidates - or just a synthesis of his study tour to your motherland. -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 12:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, thanks Wetman, I was just a little worried about you there, my Granny used to tail off like that after the third martini. Giano ( talk) 23:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Seems the claim was added to the article by an authority [9]. I think I'll see if I can email him. -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 00:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Alright buck! HNY an all that. What happened with the above - you get knocked back or is it ongoing?-- Vintagekits ( talk) 21:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano
I may admire your article writing, but your recent comments RE:Durova aren't helpful, in my opinon. You are, at this very moment, simply giving more ammunition to your detractors. Please, please, just back away slowly. There are only a few options here:
There is almost zero chance of anyone being swayed by your recent comments, and in my opinion they make it far less likely that any action will be taken regarding anyone else.
While you clealry don't know this IP from a hill of beans, is there no one who you may confer with on this? Someone you respect, but has less of a reuptation for intemperance?
152.91.9.144 (
talk) 00:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) To the question "What recourse is left?" I present several courses of action:
Note that there are currently no remedies in place even to be discussed, and that there is only one finding of fact that's passing. The "dialog" in this arbitration is running to waste products. This arbitration is a reactive one, and thus any outcomes are going to be clouded. It might be sensible to spend some time considering from scratch what the problems are and how to address them.
59.101.166.142 (
talk) 10:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC) (but really 152.91.9.144)
Someone wants to start from scratch? Someone already did. It's too bad, though, that no one cares about the problems. As for Durova, she's injecting herself into the discussion. Why she wants to be the center of attention is something known only in her own heart, but arguing, "I was never mean to the Arbs" is, at best, anecdote. At worst, it invites precisely the response Giano gave: "You weren't rude to the Arbs because you were caught doing something that was so horribly wrong that, if you had been rude, you'd have never gotten only a slap on the wrist." It's actually disruptive behaviour on her part to introduce an irrelevancy ("I wasn't mean" (implied: you're being rude to Morven)), or it's an attempt to get an apology for how poorly her own pitiful corse was treated. Either way, it's right and meet so to protest at her comments. If the arbitrators have halos around them, whereby none may approach without due obeisance to the sacred nimbus, then the rest of us should be warned. Otherwise, Morven is a user. Durova is a user. Giano is a user. On the other hand, these dire warnings are coming from IP's, which are not users. Utgard Loki ( talk) 13:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
You know, the ArbCom became a farce of a kangaroo court when the started referring to themselves as the "Committee" (capital 'C'!) and instituted a cadre of subordinate Clerks (capital 'C'!) to do their bidding. Somebody has to speak truth to power and say that the emperor has no clothes, and that the "Arbitrators" (capital 'A'!) are not better than everybody else. 75.116.4.29 ( talk) 23:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Since I've invoked Sir John Vanbrugh's name I thought I should alert you and the ArchHist Lurkers here to a very much expanded former limping stub, which would be improved by many eyes and hands. Do you know this house, which is only a name to me? How about the wainscoting designed by James Gibbs in the picture gallery? -- Wetman ( talk) 05:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
re. this. Isn't the advice to get an admin to do a 'history merge' rather than pasting in your work from userspace? -- Joopercoopers ( talk) 11:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
With regard to your article in development, a good source is "Lost London" by Hermione Hobhouse (Macmillan, London 1971). Contains a great deal of detail about the many grand homes of the aristocracy which were demolished in the 18th and 19th centuries to make way for an expanding city. There was an American edition published by Weathervane Books of New York in 1971 ( ISBN 0517167026). Sam Blacketer ( talk) 21:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
On 17 January, following a series of edits to Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Proposed decision, User:FloNight protected the page and added the following in an edit summary: "I protected the page from all editing until the case is closed or edits all agree to make all productive comments about the proposed ruling and not other editors". Flonight has not left any further messages as yet, so I am posting this message to all those who edited the page in this period, and asking them to consider signing this section at Flonight's talk page indicating that they will abide by this request. Hopefully this will help move the situation forward, and enable the talk page to be unprotected (with any necessary warnings added) so that any editor (including those uninvolved in this) can comment on the proposed decision. Thank you. Carcharoth ( talk) 05:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
One of the problems I think ArbCom has is institutional inertia (which is usually an advantage, except when there is a need to restore confidence). It was originally set up with the three tranches in order to avoid radical change (I think). The trouble is what do you do when radical change is needed? Newyorkbrad may have been elected with a huge amount of support, but he is only one voice among 15 (more in fact, when you include the retiring arbitrators and the past arbitrators who can post to the mailing list). The input of new blood to the ArbCom may not truly be felt until the retiring arbitrators finish the cases they are involved with. Also, while I understand the arbitration committee want to be able to consult past arbitrators on past cases and for advice in general, I think one hugely symbolic act they could make would be to restrict arbcom-l to just the current arbitrators, and have an emeritus mailing list that is for past and current arbitrators, with cross-posting between them as necessary. Maybe it will happen, I don't know. Carcharoth ( talk) 00:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)"Seriously, if the ArbCom was actually looking at itself or honestly examining the problems that lead to this latest debacle, the case would already be closed. Geogre said it quite well above, and the case has come to a stand still because the issues they originally wanted to pursue are no longer viable. Some brave Arb is going to have to step up and have the courage to put down actual and meaningful findings of fact and remedies, or like so many other recent cases, this is going to come to a sad, sputtering end with admonishments for everyone to play nice and no substantive or meaningful decisions." - AniMate
Wish I'd thought of this. KillerChihuahua ?!? 12:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Wanted your opinion on some edits to the section "Temple deities".
Hi Giano! Interesting image... what's the provenance of it, do you know? The description on en could stand a note as to where the image comes from, I should think. Also, once that's cleared up, do you have any major issue with the image being on commons so that when the article is translated into other langs the image can be used? ++ Lar: t/ c 23:33, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
OK I also uploaded interior and exterior views of that "The Temple of the Muses" booksellers, added them to the Lackington article and piled up some potential sources on the talk page of it. Lackingtons' autobiography (which I believe he wrote himself!) is available on Google Books for those interested enough to plow through it. The chap seems enterprising enough but not really my cup of tea. ++ Lar: t/ c 00:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I visited the Pena Palace this afternoon and, as expected, here are a few pictures I took at my favorite place in the whole of Portugal. Hopefully they will draw your interest into this palace and consider expanding its article (or stub disguised of an article, if you will).
For the first time I went inside the palace (mostly due to a mistake of three palace guards who for some reason thought that I was with a guided group of tourists passing nearby. They practically ordered me to join them and go inside, before I could explain that I hadn't paid for that access). Anyway, this time I wasn't as lucky as I was at the Queluz Palace. Surveillance is harder to avert so I couldn't take many pictures inside. But now that I know my way around, I'll have better luck next time.
Also for the first time, I visited the immense park surrounding the palace. Exploring Pena Park is quite a relaxing, yet thrilling experience. Particularly the fern garden, it makes you feel like you're in the Cretaceous. Some pictures of Pena park below:
Hope you like this. Best regards, Hús ö nd 02:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Amazing photographs Husond - they need a FA to go with them. I wonder if the Arbcom have a fighting fund to spring content-editors, such as yourself, from prison when arrested in the cause of Wikipedia's mainspace articles. I very much hope someone can one day write a page to do justice to them. At the moment I have no enthusiasm at all for writing for Wikipedia so I'm having a break from it all. Giano ( talk) 19:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey. I've been struggling to get any comments at my requested peer-review of Highlanders (rugby). I was wondering if you would be able to spend a few minutes reading through the article and adding any comments or suggestions here? Thanks. - Shudde talk 06:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Who cares? Giano ( talk) 21:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I was rather interested in that theory - I've heard it a lot - and I wondered what the evidence actually was. So here's some initial findings. Of the 15 current arbs 8 have userpage writing brags - many have impressive credentials:
Now, I suspect some of the others will also have impressive contributions - but are more modest. (And, you'll agree, having FAs etc is not the be all and end all of being a content writer.) Certainly, few arbs have the impressive record of the like of yourself, but then you are pretty well in the .01% of elite content contributors. But I'd certainly have to conclude that serious writers are very well represented amongst arbs. Indeed whilst non-content grunt work can probably get you through RfA, it seems that the community tends to choose content contributors to serve on its arbitration committee. I certainly think your claim "there are those of us who write, those of them who rule", is simply not supported by the facts. Unless you are implying that only the elite few of multiple FA writers are qualified to rule. Now, my research here is superficial, and can perhaps be rebutted otherwise.-- Docg 22:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
People acting out of their intellectual depth? On wikipedia? never.....(I'll turn off sarcasm now) cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Brags on a userpage don't impress me much (yes, I do it, but it's not how I want to be judged). I could have 40 DYK's instead of 4 if I'd heard of the DYK process a few months earlier, but that's neither here nor there. I do have to confess that my content contributions have dried up dramatically since I became an administrator, which is precisely what I vowed would not happen. I think I'm going to have to promise here to have an article on FAC by the end of February, so that people can nag me and shame me until I get around to doing it. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
However, this resulted in no consequence for LHvU, unlike the mere editors involved. Better he stick with his mop than waste everyone's time by precipitating another arbitration, then collecting irrelevant and time-consuming Evidence. Mattisse 18:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)...erm..gosh. do you wanna write a GA or FA then....cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
You and some of the kind readers of your talk page may take interest in the discussion here. Specifically, the exchange ongoing between Francis and I on the use of "old", "dead", archaic or hard to find sources. Lawrence § t/ e 23:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm noticing that some folks are doing odd things with the refs on this article, and I do recall that there was something unusual in the way that they were set up at the time (two sources with the same name?). Can you motivate yourself to take a look and/or explain the situation on the talk page? Greatly appreciated. Risker ( talk) 04:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind casting your eye over my rather embarassing attempt at Italian translation of here? Actually, the English could probably do with a going over too, if anyone's so minded :-) Joopercoopers ( talk) 11:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Please don't edit the proposed decision page. Thatcher 19:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I was going to leave you a message about Lawson (I e-mailed and it bounced back. It'll be saved at FAR—it really is web-based, AFAICS, and I'll do it myself, even if it takes a month or two).
And then I noticed the above thread. Do you want to be banned? That's neither rhetorical nor aggressive. I think maybe you do want to be banned—a last burst of POINT, so to speak. Editing Proposed decision is just providing a reason for arbs to agree to hardlines. They're just people, after all (I don't buy the cabal nonsense—if a cabal existed, Wikipedia would work better.) But even someone sympathetic is going to think "wtf do we do?—well, ban from this namespace, I guess." It will be horrible to enforce some of the remedies being discussed.
But you don't want to be banned from anywhere, right? I think you don't want to be. You talk a lot about the mainspace (and have contributed in kind). Do them one better and only contribute to it. Do it for a month—just mainspace, of your own accord—and who can argue with you? Offer it, and abide by it. Just a thought. Marskell ( talk) 21:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have blocked you for 8 hours for continuing to edit Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Proposed decision. You know you shouldn't; you are doing to prove a point; you have been asked to stop. Thatcher 07:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Giano, can I make you an offer? You frequently make some good points, but have sometimes raised them in the wrong way, or a way that causes drama and makes it less likely that the points you raise will be addressed (or even if they are, not without collateral damage). Could I ask whether you would consider making such points on your talk page first, and then see what others think? I often agree with you, and I could maybe suggest ways to make your points more effectively (or make them for you if I agree with you), and I think others could as well. I'm not trying to stop you making any of your points, but I am suggesting that anything that you feel outraged about might be better handled with a preliminary step like this. Would you consider voluntarily agreeing to work on the "outrage" issues like this for a few months, or even indefinitely if you find you prefer it this way? Carcharoth ( talk) 09:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Wetman, you are quite right, I had the two volume work produced by Sotheby's for the Easton Neston Sale (you must get it - it's your dream book) for Christmas. It is full (overflowing, in fact, with 18th century prints and 19th century photographs none of which have ever seem the light of day (well the internet anyway), but how on earth am I suppose to start a page when surrounded by morons intent on me being prohibited from writing it. I'd rather write it and have someone pay me for it, than have yet another page sink into the mud. Twice I have asked by email the "Arbcom" to revert drastic edits to existing FAs in the last week, both times they have failed to respond (perhaps they don't know what a FA is) or perhaps they want to see me and my works in the mud. Sad people. As soon as this current mess is over rest assured a normal service will be resumed. Giano ( talk) 21:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey, would you mind taking a look at this discussion. Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Sarvagnya 23:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't trying to bowdlerise Wikipedia at all. That line just seems a bit sarcastic to put in a factual article; after all, a stud book is supposed to be for pets and race horses. Moyabrit ( talk) 22:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
...to this? Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/IRC/Tavern Your original post was pertinent to the case, although almost nothing that followed was. Please advise if you want anything back to the main talk page. Durova Charge! 00:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I see there looks to be some likelihood of this resolution passing [18]. Designed no doubt to prevent their errors and stupidity being publicly pointed out in future. Have the Arbs not yet seen the foolishness of their ways? No doubt the little, non-writing, Admins on IRC will have some kind of competition to see who can be the first to achieve fame by blocking me. Let's face it, fame won't come to them any other way. I'm afraid the Arbs were very ill-advised ever accepting this case. They now seem to want to cause even more mass disruption rather than accept they made a very silly mistake. One cannot really help them to see the error of their ways. However, when an entire case has been based on pure spite and revenge, I suppose one cannot really be surprised at the outcome. Giano ( talk) 12:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Reverting to English for the benefeit of the few who don't speak Italian here, the whole root cause of all the current trouble is here [19]. The only people who refuse to see that are the Arbs. Now I wonder why that is, that they feel this page is more important than the content of the encyclopedia? Giano ( talk) 19:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
(unindent)Well, you may find this an interesting way to start St. Agatha's Day [22]. It is somehow fitting that this aspect of the current brouhaha come to an end on the nameday of a Sicilian saint. Risker ( talk) 01:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, usually as a smug anglophone I can be happy with the dictum Englisch über alles except inthe field of mycology as most anglophones are mycophobes unlike the dedicated mushroom eaters of Italy, France and Germany and points east. Any italian lore that can be input onto Boletus edulis, Entoloma sinuatum or Boletus satanas among others would be much appreciated if you ever partake of funghi. It has been raining +++++ here for a few weeks and we have things popping up everywhere, but 95% of australian fungi are undescribed... :( cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
In case you all forget, and I disappear. [23]. Giano ( talk) 20:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Old messages are at
Essay: A few thoughts on writing Featured Articles
Au contraire - this is the much more light-hearted original cirteria, as Billy Joel is a much better judge of core articles than Wikipedia:Vital articles....cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 01:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Flo, I've left this message on your talk page, but perhaps it is best to put a copy of my thoughts here as well.
I too wish that Giano would stay and continue to participate in Wikipedia. From the perspective of the encyclopedia, he is an incredibly valuable contributor; from the personal perspective, I have learned a great deal about editing and greatly value the encouragement he has given me. Giano's mainspace edits are legendary, and his contributions on the meta side have significantly improved content and behaviour with respect to "The Troubles," addressing paedophilia-related activity on this site, abusive blocking and transparency here on Wikipedia. His meta positions have been supported by the wide community despite his sometimes excessive zeal; many who "opposed" Giano's election to Arbcom commented that he had the right ideas but his approach wasn't suited to being an Arbcom member. It is difficult to know whether the changes in Wikipedia culture could have been made without Giano's rhetoric and focus on issues. Let's compare the defense of !! and the granting of rollback to non-administrators: Both involved walking very fine lines and pushed the community hard into a new direction, with high-flying rhetoric and violation of WP conventions. Giano got warned for being rude and violating unwritten rules (which remain unwritten, as the community cannot come to a consensus on what those rules are); Ryan Postlethwaite was invited to join a special Arbcom subcommittee.
Just about anyone can make the list of administrators who would be watching every word written by Giano, ready to whack him with a block, whether deserved or not. One snippy comment in a FAR. One snotty response on his talk page. Another Eurocentric allusion that goes over the average American's head. "Obscene trolling: knows German" may well be the standard. Heck, there are several statements in his essay - a poignant and humorous final gift to our community - that would incite some admins to block him. And no AN or ANI discussion, just another report to WP:AE that nobody questions or reads. And if someone does question the block, then we're back to the drama that nobody needs - not the community, not Arbcom, and not Giano either. From that perspective, with such a huge "kick me" sign pinned to his back, who can blame Giano for walking away? Hundreds of others already have. Risker ( talk) 14:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The Remedy arbcom passed was always a poor one. I've criticised attempts to put Giano on civility parole before. The problem with it is it would allow hotheads to block Giano, and at the same time allow Giano (if he chose) to push at the bounds in search of the the drama of an unjust block. The remedy made Giano's departure unfortunately inevitable, and the only thing to do is to give Giano credit that he chose to leave like this, rather than waiting for the drama of being dispatched by a poor blocking decision in the future, which would have been far more disruptive for the community. However, neither will I be too hard on arbcom. Whilst there is an idiotic community minority on one side who want Giano gone or silent, and a minority on the other for whom Giano can do no wrong, most sane people badly want Giano to stay, and will defend his right to express his wiki-views, however, they don't want any more "Franken-Giano"ism. By that I mean Giano's tactic of: 1) using heated and polarising rhetoric 2) painting everyone who doesn't agree 100% as part of the problem 3) assuming that everyone critical of the methods and tone wants to silence the message 4) never admitting any wrong on his own part 5) assuming bad faith of anyone that dares to be critical. Basically, we need Giano to remember that the aim in every dispute is to seek some form of dispute *resolution*, not to wage perpetual warfare. Now, there is simply not any arbcom remedy that can compel that, that can leave Giano free both to edit and to comment, but compel him to comment in a different fashion. So arbcom can either do nothing (which has been what they have done up till now) or pass some unsatisfactory remedy that will doubtless result in him leaving. The only person who could have given a way out here was Giano. Had he indicated at any point that he'd reflect on the widespread criticism of his tactics (a criticism shared even by many who agreed with his messages) I would immediately have called for the case to be closed without sanction and sang "Alleluia". Even now, were Giano to even hint at a desire to proceed a little differently (or just to start doing it), I'd call for arbcom to remove the sanction immediately. Giano, if I can help you find a way back, you only have to ask.-- Docg 16:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I probably have no business weighing in here, since we've never been close, but that Southern Belle has an awfully large waistline and eyebrows in desperate need of a serious shaping and waxing, so I have a vested interest in seeing you stay around to replace that picture. How come Raul gets a great physique, and I get bushy eyebrows? :-))
I went through a singularly unpleasant experience one month ago in an ArbCom case, and as horrible as that experience was (do you 'spose the Arbs understand how awful it is?), I know it was nothing compared to what you've been through. From my read of things, you ended up there partly for defending Bish's honor; it's sad that should be necessary.
I'd really hate to see Wiki lose your writing and your presence. After what happened to me, I doubted for many weeks I would even want to return to Wiki or could find the restored enthusiasm and energy I used to enjoy here. I knew I couldn't come back unless I could find a motivation to continue with joy. Two things made a difference for me and brought me back in spite of the serious shortcomings we all have to deal with on Wiki: friends and a forced break. The bottom line is that, no matter how bad it can be, there are some really fine editors here on Wiki and they enrich my life. I hope the thought of interacting with other editors like Yomangani, who also took a long break and returned with enthusiasm, will help you find a way back to us. Because I was traveling to remote areas with limited internet access, I had a semi-forced break after the ArbCom closed, and that time off was crucial in helping me regain my footing. So please consider seriously taking time off to reconsider, and while you're thinking it over, you may find that the exceptional people you know on Wiki may come to mean more to you than the unpleasant things about The Way Wiki Works. You can always use the WikiBreak Enforcer to give yourself a pre-determined amount of time to think things over. Whatever you decide, I hope you'll be happy and be well. Best, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The subject may entice you, even though the little start I've made hardly sketches the outlines of the subject. Was a gabinetto always a close-stool or necessary? Was it ever a studiolo? -- Wetman ( talk) 12:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I just placed this quote on my userpage:
“ | ...my understanding of the Wikipedia project is that its strength comes from a vast number of people making small changes. However, the process self-selects to self-destruction - to wit, people who have lots of free time get the most power. But those people are usually the ones who are involved in order to gain personal prestige - the antithesis of Wikipedia in the first place. They're experts in the expert-less community.
So the community automatically becomes run by unstable people who care more about their personal power than the results. And this becomes impossible to stop, because reasonable people by definition will not be obsessed enough to fight the tendency. And therein lies the doom of a good idea. [1] |
” |
Not all, or perhaps even most, of the powerful accounts (admins, arbitrators, etc) in Wikipedia are unreasonable people. But, as the Essjay, BADSITES, IRC, Weiss/Overstock.com [25], and other episodes have shown, the few who are unreasonable and in positions of authority, and who seem to enjoy using "private" mailing lists and IRCs to further their personal agendas, often cause immense problems for the project and to those editors who are actually here to try to write quality articles or measurably improve article space in some other way. Giano is helping fight this and is often successful in doing so, to the great benefit of the project.
Notice I said "is" helping fight this, not "was" and I hope that this is still the case. Cla68 ( talk) 02:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is one of my favorite works of Ludwig Van's. It seems highly fitting and appropriate considering it is about one gallant hero's struggle against tyranny. Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic did it justice, quite unlike what the ArbCom did for you. I hope it helps inspire you to continue the fight in whatever manner you see fit.-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 11:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Meglio un giorno da leone che cento da pecora. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.0.99 ( talk) 16:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Been natural for once in my life
Now I'll have to swallow some pride
Know that I should never give advice
But it's too late now to say goodbye
Be natural don't want any friends
Be natural come on and hit me again
Be natural I'm repeating myself
Be natural is there anything else
Hiding T 22:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Giano. I was asked to write a signpost tutorial about how to get an article to featured article. This is my first draft. It is based on my own page: User:Yannismarou/Ten rules to make an article FA. It is today during writing the tutorial that I first read your own essay, which impressed me I must say. I would be grateful If you had the time to check the draft, offer any comments you would like, check the prose, and propose me any improvements you regard as useful. Thank you in advance!-- Yannismarou ( talk) 15:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, there is a "consensus" being manufactured in this critical article (it defines Wikis handling of inbuilt systematic bias). I strongly feel you should read the talk pages; look at the history and I'd appreciate your views on how to proceed or other advice. Regards, Sarah777 ( talk) 15:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Giano, maybe you should add prophet to your resume. You saw this coming like global warming too. Yet another example of why you should be sitting on the ArbCom instead of driven away by it! So many of Wiki's problems could be avoided by heeding your sage words. But, alas, being a voice in the wilderness is one of a prophet's occupational hazards.-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 06:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Perchè non vieni qua a scrivere, se questi idioti rompono le balle? Super Giano ( talk) 13:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I know you may not be around to read this, Giano, but I wanted to share with you (and who ever else happens to stumble on this page) that Kosebamse has taken a look at the IRC case and posted a very astute analysis at his/her talk page. [26] You are missed. Risker ( talk) 15:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I hope you'll come back to us soon, Giano. Raul654 ( talk) 23:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You speak truth to power; We are less for your absence. I wish you well. -- SSB ohio 04:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
No one deserves the abuse that Giano went through. If he comes back, there will only me more malicious and organized efforts from those with tools to stop him from actively contributing. I support him leaving. Wikipedia is a heavily flawed project that is well on the path to self-destruction. 216.37.86.10 ( talk) 16:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano II. I'm not sure if we've met before, but alot of editors here seem upset about your pending departure. I'm curious, who are you & why are you leaving Wikipedia? GoodDay ( talk) 23:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
An article you've worked extensively on, Matthew Brettingham, is up for FAR. See here. Nousernamesleft copper, not wood 00:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, it is shocking and surprizing to see you have decided to go away. Please re-consider your decision, and do come back. - KNM Talk 01:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
It's true that I won't edit while Giano is under a humiliating and unreasonable restriction, but I'd like to get it on record that that is not the only reason I've withdrawn from editing at this time. It's only one out of three. The others are what I consider the corruption of the RFAR/IRC process (per
User talk:Kosebamse and the
dissenting opinion and
other commentsof arbitrator
Paul August); and also the disrespect and indignities with which the arbitration committee, bodily and in many cases individually, treated myself and my friends. Examples:
Not editing is not merely, or mainly, a demonstration to show my loyalty, Giacomo. Two thirds of it is that, finding myself kicked from the calm waters of "respectable admin" to the maelstrom of "problem user", and having seen from the inside how the top proceedings of our dispute resolution can be conducted, I just never seem to feel like editing any more. I know that you still value, and in some ways, love, the project. You're not really disillusioned about it like me. Well, we both have room to change, possibly.-- Bishonen | talk 20:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth I think you did the right thing. I hope you come back.
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The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
I award you this barnstar for doing the right thing and standing up for what is right. Oreo Priest 16:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC) |
It's worth a great deal, thank you. Giano ( talk)
You will probably despise me for making the comparison, but in my opinion, yourself and JzG are among the elite Wikipedia editors for a simple reason: when you're not going off the deep end over something that tickles your bonnet, you both have the ability to take a dispassionate view, distill the essence into a very few words, and cover all the points in a readable discourse.
Congratulations on your excellent analysis. I would only have been able to muster "Yawwn" as a comment, you have done much better. Here's hoping you'll be back in force soon - but a calm force. A much wiser 'pedian pointed out to me that if you are getting emotional about something, it's probably better to let someone else deal with it. Again, my great respect for your contributions to Wikipedia, and looking forward to more of the same... :) Franamax ( talk) 21:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, this ex-arbonaut (are there suits?) felt like keeping his head down because he's had enough drama to last a lifetime. Thank you for what you said. Mackensen (talk) 03:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Now I am really unhappy...what is wrong with Australian Chardonnay??? XD Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:14, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
As you know being a key part of that crowd, the discussion was started, restored and is being continued by long running ax-grinders with Jimbo. Don't think others don't see through this. Transparently using 'concern' as a reason to air Jimbo's dirty laundry and create drama is by definition disruptive editing. For that reason alone it can and should be ended and archived. You want to discuss Jimbo's personal imbroglios? This isn't the place for it; do it offsite. FeloniousMonk ( talk) 16:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
This is what I meant by emotionalism not serving you well. Or us well. Maybe rhetoric or histrionics is the better term. Anyway, if you're getting pissed off, maybe best to ignore the wankers. You've got a great vocabulary. Bet you could improve an article :) Come on, try a small one! We tried Montreal for GA and got beat down, help us out! Franamax ( talk) 10:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
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The WP:SPADE Barnstar | |
For all your work around here in telling like it is, and making the Wiki a better place. You really are doing it, and we need more people like you. Not to mention your article work, of which I am eternally jealous. dihydrogen monoxide ( H20) 11:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC) |
Though I too am full of dihydrogen monoxide, I haven't written any FAs at all (or, come to think of it, even got a PhD). Ah, how depressing. Though that's outweighed by my delight to see you back, Giano, and in fine form. Your reappearance might encourage me to nudge something FAwards, were it not for the fact that I'm about to head off to some sceptred isle off the far west of Eurasia. While I'm over there enjoying the novelty of computer-free, smokefree pubs, could you possibly pop this in an envelope and send it to Bishonen? Thank you and toodle-pip, Hoary 16:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano II. I had asked ('bout a week ago) as to who you were & what all the fuss was about. GoodDay ( talk) 17:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
If you want Administrator Newyorkbrad, to gives his views? by all means contact him. GoodDay ( talk) 22:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
After just being both insulted and threatened by Catherine? I depart this discussion. PS- Mr Wales created Wikipedia, but he doesn't run it. If he tried to? he'd violate Wikipedia's spirit of community & collaboration. GoodDay ( talk) 20:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
OK. We need some clarity here.
See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Giano_II. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 13:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
No Lar, you are quite wrong. today I have seen these edits [31] [32] [33] and many other similar from those supporting a certain viewpoint in the Troubles dispute, because I have another view on how to solve the problem. The fact these people have been trying to solve the problems with limited success for God know's how long is neither here nor there. If I point it out I am a troll, if I object the Admin Brown Haired Girl tried to have me banned on the civility thing. This is exactly what Ms Nite and her less than glorious Arbs hope to see happening. You see the more the little Admins complain, the more I appear the disruptive one, quite clever of them really, and that is why I stopped editing for so long, but then I thought sod them, the Arbs vindictively and spitefully created this mess, now they can sort it because it will happen again and again and again. If I behaved like this [34] our amazing arbs would gleefully call it trolling, except of course in this instance its one of their Admins, fortunatly on this occasion other editors sent her packing with a flea in her ear, while the brave Arbs wrung their hands in mock horror. Giano ( talk) 20:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I was going to pop by and offer you a cup of tea, but it looks like a bit of Irish whisky might be more appropriate. ;-) Is it just me or does it seem a little odd that all the people complaining about this situation are unable to meet the description of uninvolved administrator? Ah well. Never a dull moment with your talk page on my watch list. Risker ( talk) 15:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Some people may remember my friend !!, while he has left, there is always a chance he may return. He cannot is he has been deleted. You may like to comment either way here [35]. Giano ( talk) 16:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I notice you are editing a bit. (I hope you're following your own advice and keeping the mainspace in mind...)
Two months on, I'm still trying with the referencing on Robert Lawson (architect). I have a hold of Mane-Weoki (1992) and was hoping it would match the article. Eek, it doesn't. Not that the descriptions are totally different, but there are divergences. Do you recall what your primary source for the article was, if not that one? Cheers, Marskell ( talk) 19:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the note. Marskell ( talk) 15:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Just letting you know I've fully protected User:Vintagekits for three days. Since the talk page in this case probably isn't an ideal location for discussion, I started a thread at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Brief protection at User:Vintagekits. Will leave everybody I see as involved in the dispute the same message. Feel free to comment. :) – Luna Santin ( talk) 09:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
you on some kind of probation? -- Damifb ( talk) 16:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you want to talk it out on the talk page instead of calling it trolling. No Wikipedian should call a well made edit "daft", especially not one on civility parole. I have thick skin, but I hate to think that you might treat other Wikipedians with such contempt.
I don't think it is a good idea to assume the reader knows the subject before they have read it. Sometimes people look things up in the encyclopedia because they are ignorant of a fact. (1 == 2)Until 22:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Interested in your views on Arbcom. They made a ruling in a case I was involved in - that terminology cannot be applied to a historical event unless the exact terminology was used at the time of the event (despite the terminology not existing back then) - even if the event meets precisely the modern definition of such terminology. This you may or may not find interesting; though I guess you are forbidden to comment by the geniuses above at Arbcom. Sarah777 ( talk) 23:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I understand why you could be upset at john, but this is a little disapointing. I saw it as some kind of threat - you should know that taking things elsewhere isn't what we do here. I personally have a lot of respect for you and I honestly thought you were way above this - just take a step back and think about things for a minute. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I was reading this evening and came across a reprint of a copper engraving of the Winter Palace. My first impression was that it was vaguely palladian in its style — the pillars, the portico-like entrance, the long narrow building — but it appears from our article on the palace that I was wrong, and it is rococo (not one of our better articles, I'm afraid - very disorganized and somewhat confusing), which in turn appears to be an offshoot of baroque architecture. Having "followed the links" further, I agree that Winter Palace more closely resembles Sanssouci, particularly in its ornamentation. What, besides the ornamentation, differentiates rococo architecture from palladianism? I have a feeling I am missing something rather major here that simply isn't clear in the articles. Risker ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, remember me from my last FAC? Well now I have the above article in FAC. Tony1 objected to the prose and Taxman wanted more info on certian issues (which I am working on). If you are available, I think your experience will help in better organizing, presenting and polishing this article. If you are busy, can you point me to someone who could help me. I left messages for users: Awadewit and Willow, but with no luck. thanks. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 21:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
No Doc, like so many in that channel, you misunderstand - I'm only nterested in those who are ex-admins and non-admins in the channel. Thanks for the info though. ,ost kind. Giano ( talk) 23:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
You have been blocked for 31 hours for repeated incivility at User_talk:FloNight and other locations in breach of the recent Arbitration ruling.
Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement for details.
FT2 ( Talk | email) 02:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I have copied the #wikipedia-en-admins access list into your userspace. See User:Giano II/access list. Everyone on that list has access to the channel. Just to give one example entry:
This is the entry for user:Betacommand. The number immediately preceeding his name (5, in this case) is his access level -- the higher the number, the more things he can do. A minimum of 5 is required to get into the channel (or, more precisely, to invite yourself into the channel). The time code following the name is the amount of time, in days/hours/minutes/seconds, since that user logged into the channel. Raul654 ( talk) 07:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Here's the other list, the on-wiki one, back to normal sized print. See User:Giano II/Onwiki list. The names in black are people who have not been in the channel for the past half year or longer. The bold ones are non-admins, but there are a few not marked that way. Not sure what bells and whistles you have in your preferences or monobook, but if you cursor over the names, you should be able to verify which channel name goes with which member; there are quite a few differences. Risker ( talk) 08:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Giano it doesn't matter how many times a paranoid man shouts "conspiracy", it doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how many times you say you are being censored for your opinions, it doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how many times you claim that your civility isn't arbcom's main issue, it is. Now here's the facts - the access list is open - and all the information you want is public. Has someone compared the access list to #en-admins with the admins on en.wp? Perhaps not. But then we have no paid civil service here - people research what interests them. If this interests you, do the leg work and make a list. As to "have major changes been made to en-admins?" The honest answer is no. And none are likely in the foreseeable future. It was debated at length (I believe) - there was no consensus for any major change. You are not going to like that, but there it is.-- Docg 08:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
FT2: What' was "incivil" in Giano's comments. Please be specific. Giano has many comments on FloNight's page. There is a satire of her continued silence. Was that "incivil?" Was there a characterization of her motivations, mentality, words, etc. that was scandalous? I see repeated questions... well, one, actually... and continued "no one is going to answer because the answer is already somewhere else." Again, there is no basis of this block. Furthermore, 31 hours is a non-standard time. How did you arrive at that? Isn't the usual to begin with, perhaps, 12 or 24? I see no justification for this at all. If "any admin may block on any perception of incivility" is in force, may "any admin unblock?" Is there some magical force where any single administrator gets to determine for all others what is not allowed in speech on Wikipedia? Can we say, again and again, that pictures of David Shankbone's penis are perfect, because we're not censored, but this piece of speech (a question) must not be allowed? When that speech is interrogative and does not involve charges of real life illegality, etc. (no "you're a Nazi/Communist"), it cannot be instantly blockable. If you want to see someone merely trying to get anger, look at the bottom of my user talk page. Giano was trying to get a user to answer about why that user thought something was a good idea one day and a bad idea the next, and why the "resolution" of a case by ArbCom was abandoned without a word to the community. Those are legitimate, and it is poor service (what ArbCom is supposed to be about -- service, not power) to keep running away and blocking the questioner. Geogre ( talk) 10:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Any time I think of actively contributing to the mainspace, I just visit this page. Thanks for helping me come to my senses, FT2, and anyone else involved in this game. SashaNein ( talk) 13:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Doc g raises a good point about other issues being just as important, if not more so. Anyway, I've just been reading through what happened (though not in great detail). Giano was a bit aggressive with his questioning, but I would like to point out that the arbitration committee are also role models, and more so than Giano. What behaviours are people learning when they see the reaction shown here by arbitrators? Regardless of how people perceive their own behaviour, that perception isn't always what other people remember or learn from an incident (presuming that there is anyone actually watching all this). Some people will, wrongly, think that blocking for asking questions is now OK, or that extreme politeness is needed to avoid blocks (well, with some people it is). I think the best thing to do is for people to carry on talking constructively to each other, and for someone to produce regular updates on what is happening with IRC. I've been vaguely following things (I saw the subpage in Cbrown's userspace, and the list Ryan linked to is also good), and some progress seems to be being made, but not being on IRC I can't definitely judge how things are going in there (specifically in the admins channel). I would also suggest that the arbitration committee not overuse the magic panacea of forming subcommittees and task forces. Sometimes they just need to be decisive or restrict themselves and let the community deal with the rest of the problems. Carcharoth ( talk) 13:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I have requested clarification in the IRC arbitration case here and named you as an involved user. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
My dear friend Lord G,
I am feeling restless and unsettled today. I have been trying to read the writings of a Mr. FT2. Have you heard of him? Well, I must say, he tends to go on and on....and on, until I can no longer stand it. I feel I would rather clean the stables! I will be riding later this day if you care to join me.
Your friend and neighbor, Lady E
Your email on Wednesday lifted my spirit. ;-) Let's talk more and see if we can figure out the best approach to take. I'll email you in the morning with some specific ideas to see if you think that they will work. Take care, FloNight ♥♥♥ 02:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Thanks for your message about assessing Little Moreton Hall, Kedleston Hall & Ascott House as start class when reviewing all National Trust houses for the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums. As you know these things are a subjective judgment & we are still developing the criteria at: Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums which you would be very welcome to participate in. They are all good interesting articles, but as you requested a few comments on other things which could be done. Little Moreton Hall - well referenced, but more could be said about the contents (as opposed to architecture) & NT ownership (eg when did they aquire it & how) - I have put this one up to B class. Ascott House & Kedleston Hall are completely unsupported by inline citations & I feel these are needed before they could make B class. I would personally add an infobox using Template:Infobox Historic building, but as we discussed on Brympton d'Evercy I know you dislike these. I hope these comments are useful.— Rod talk 14:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks LHVU, but all that mop and bucket stuff, I have never used a mop and bucket in my life, and fiddling about with vandals and civility, categories, filing, table manners and telling people what to do, sounds like a cross between a school teacher and a housemaid - not my style at all - I like to please myself - I suppose none of you know how I can upoad a doc.file? You may as well make yourselves useful seeing as you are all admins. Giano ( talk) 17:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
You mean a .doc file I take it Giano? And we aren't all admins. I take it you mean you can't upload an image with .doc, in which case you have a technical problem, give me a shout if you want a hand with technical problems and I will see what I can do. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
[54] Whisker? Don't make me put a lolcat picture on this page... Risker ( talk) 22:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, Giano... you may not have had as many edits to Chris as some of the other folk I'm thanking, but you had loads to do with it just the same. Thank you, my friend. Enjoy your free pass (see right), I know I am going to! And stop bribing E! ++ Lar: t/ c 22:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Helo - I've followed some of your articles which are very good - you use images a lot. Can you point me the right way to sort out the copyright problem. I uploaded a picture I made here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pluralitas.jpg
which should not be a problem, but the warning message does not give precise instructions about how to fix it, just links to various long and incomprehensible online documents. Help gratefully appreciated. Latinist ( talk) 11:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I want this deleted [55] can someone do it for me, I have speedied it with good reason, but others seem to feel my reasons are not good enough. Bisnonen, Geogre, someone anyone - can you do it for me - Thanks. Giano ( talk) 22:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I understand what you mean about the brighter pictures, but do you agree it would be better to have a picture without a cherry picker crane in the foreground? Pete Richardson ( talk) 06:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough - I hadn't considered the relationship of the text to the pictures. The lighting wasn't perfect in mine, but I do think the composition was more agreeable. However, given the status of that page, it doesn't deserve to be messed with on a whim, my apologies. Pete Richardson ( talk) 07:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I liked it there so much that I'm sure I'll go back some sunny day. Very good point for the pictures on here, I'll bear that in mind in future. Many thanks for your comments. Pete Richardson ( talk) 08:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
There's not enough information in the image to remove the crane entirely, but I've minimised its impact a little until somebody takes a nicer pic (or until somebody is prepared to spend more than five minutes removing it from the image). Yomangani talk 10:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
This [56] has displeased me greatly, unless the Arbcom want to see an immense amount of incivility they had better turn out and vote to save it because I no longer have the original on disc! Giano ( talk) 18:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) Sorry Kelly, I did not read the full history of that Southcote image, and missed that someone else had converted it some time before. One issue that has been seen quite often here on en-WP is that people upload images, often for future use, they get moved to Commons and deleted here, and then they get deleted at Commons but there is no notification to the initial uploader that their image is now nowhere in Wikimedia space. Giano is not unique in his wish to keep images on en-WP; quite a few others have encountered this problem over the last few years. As well, finding moved images on Commons can be quite a Byzantine task due to the differences and irregularities in classification. It's more a reflection of different processes on the projects. Risker ( talk) 17:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
In fact, I created a special template for that. After the Neil incident when he was blocked for not wanting his images moved to commons, there was a discussion that ended up that the deletion policies were modified. Now, the mere presence of the image in Commons no longer requires the deletion of the local copy. Just place {{ KeepLocal}} on your images (that what I do) or place {{ NoCommons}} if the image is already copied there but not yet deleted.
Some editors, like myself, don't wont to deal with commons for the reasons I stated elsewhere. Also, there is indeed a lot of confusion with commons' ever changing and fluent policies, its capricious admins, spurious rules of checkuser access and, location and mislocation of images.
You cannot force anyone to not copy any of your commons-compliant images, but you can at least make sure, that the local copies are kept here. HTH, -- Irpen 21:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The "wrong" with these people, Giano, is what we all know. They don't come here to write the Wikipedia but for social reasons: chat, make friends, chatmore, make a "career", write bots, "write policies", go 'round telling others what to do (or to put it another way "enforce policies" whimsically), invent the awards and award them to each other, chatmore, reverse the RL hierarchy, disparage the "timid and ill-informed populace" at the "private" channels, post there diffs and talk like they own the place, etc., etc., etc. I am not saying anything that you don't yet know or, perhaps, even said yourself.
But as for the images, legally speaking anyone has the right to copy the freely licensed image to commons. That often this is done with violations, that is the uploading history not being preserved, is another point which happens less now. You have to be prepared to see any and all of your images copied to commons. But you can make sure that the local copy is retained. This is my suggestion: use this template. It worked for me. I even succeeded asking the bot-owners to respect the "KeepLocal" and "NoCommons" templates and not tag the images for deletion. So, the images won't be "moved" but just "copied". As for copying, why not for what I care? -- Irpen 22:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Giano II. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion can be found under the topic Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User using rollback tool to edit war. Tiptoety talk 00:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
check it if you like, and accept a sincere apology if you'd like.... moving on now.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Risker (your rollback not working?) [58], but I was not born yesterday, and had just finished typing my acceptance speech. Now the world will never get to read it. In view of recent events, and an offer made to me, privately, which I am considering, PM was being very perceptive. I have decided to help share that great burden which Jimbo has so manfully and with such panache hitherto carried alone. All of you rank and file common editors must not regard me as changed, and if you want to talk to me at any time, my chief-of-staff Ms Bishzilla's undersecretary will advise on a place for you to wait as I walk past. My use name will name be changing from Giano to User: Oh Holy and most gracious One, but don't clutter up my talk page with your dull trivia about pages and content as it is now reserved for important people like Arbcom members who will want to post there begging favours etc. Wikilove and warm greetings etc. etc. etc. to you all . Giano ( talk) 06:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC) )(aka: Oh Holy and most gracious One ( talk) 07:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC))
Hi Giano, I was watching another thread at WP:ANI when I saw the one about rollback and you, then made a passing comment without paying much attention to who had started the thread. Anyway I wanted to let you know, I would have likely commented no matter who was being talked about and as it happened, reading the thread was helpful to me because it made me aware that current practice here on rollback's threshold of use is not vandalism, but non-controversy/no need for an edit summary. Given this a) your use of rollback has been utterly a non-issue as explained in the thread but b) at least the thread was helpful in bringing me up to speed on the consensus about rollback! Cheers. Gwen Gale ( talk) 17:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the support. Dineshkannambadi ( talk) 20:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I see all of the images I took for West Wycombe Park have disappeared from Wikipedia to commons without so much as a word - this is really pretty bad, how can they be deleted from Wikipedia with no word of notification. Now they are only on commons and this one Image:West Wycombe 3 (Giano).png " released into the public domain by its author, PNG crusade bot at the wikipedia project" Well bolox to that, I am its author, if I copy a book to do I suddenly become it's author? Giano ( talk) 12:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
This policy of deleting Wikipedia images as soon as they are uploaded to commons will end in tears - you see if I am not right, may be not this year but one day. From now forward I shall just upload with the {{KeepLocal} template, but for how long will that be good? Here for instance Image:Tong Castle Shropshire.jpg has whizzed of to commons - why - I have not even finished the page for which it us destined, I may well upload a better version or never use that one at all. No one on Wikipedia ever looks further than tomorrow - I upload potentially useful images all the time, I stop the car and photograph useful buildings all the time, now these people want to upload all to commons and delete others as orphans because I have not yet had the time or inclination to write the page - what sort of clever policy is that? This Kelly is just going through every image I ever upoad - thousands - why? I have better things to do with my time than keep logging into commons to see if Wikipedia has decided to throw away the images I upload Giano ( talk) 21:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
being less shy and retiring than I probably should be, I thought I'd pipe up here (although I'll be careful how I sign!) - in truth, there's an unspoken movement which is gathering pace to move all images to commons - many people cannot understand why 'english wikipedia' should have images at all - they all should be available to all of the projects, is how the thinking goes. Not really having thought about it, but having had pic.s nearly deleted from commons without my noticing (my fault mind, wrong / missing licensing stuff) - my jury's out. It's not being discussed anywhere (why bother, when you can just go and do it!) - and to be honest the way the tide seems to be heading to me, we simply won't have local images in a year or so..... just a tuppence worth.. Privatemusings ( talk) 21:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Well this particular bot has a button on it that will blow it up [61] except when I pressed it, like all things on Wikipedia it can only be destroyed by an admin - so you go an press it Geogre - and give it a kick from me while you are there. 22:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you use Excel? The software, not the verb. Risker ( talk) 13:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
For your information, Windows XP is an operating system, while Excel is an application program that runs under the OS (in this case, a spreadsheet program). They're both by Microsoft, so naturally they're pieces of crap, and you should use something better that's open-source. But how is this relevant to Wikipedia? *Dan T.* ( talk) 16:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
My wife has found out the hard way that squirting WD40 into me doesn't really fix things. Still, done the right way it does render me unconscious for a few hours, which provides a welcome hiatus. If she were to squirt in a very large quantity maybe it would fix me for good. If anyone's interested, Dan T. is on the money when it comes to XP, but (open-source) OpenOffice so sedulously apes MS Office that there's not much between the two behemoths. Except the price: a lot for legal MS Office, zero for legal OpenOffice. This difference makes the choice simple for me, and the clincher is that MS Office won't run on my computer. Anyway, OpenOffice displays XLS files. ¶ 'Nuff of that. I've recently been disturbed by the mediocrity of articles on buildings -- Pitzhanger Manor, Wotton House, Moggerhanger House, etc -- designed or remodeled by John Soane. I've done some fiddling with them and hope I haven't thereby messed them up, but somebody much more knowledgable about architecture (Joopers, even Giano?) would do a much better job, I'm sure. -- Hoary ( talk) 23:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello. A user asked to be removed from the access list of the admins channel, and also asked to be removed from a few on-wiki copies of this access list, for privacy reasons. Two of those pages were in your user space. I have removed the two mentions of the editor in question: here and here. I hope this is okay with you. - Mark 05:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I am being trolled here [62] by an Anon. I don't want to be incivil perhaps an Arb wpuld like to deal with it! Giano ( talk) 18:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
reported your unhelpful attitude to me as a new user to Jimbo! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.19.104 ( talk) 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi again, If you feel Palazzo Pitti is high importance please feel free to change it, however you could take a look at The "importance scale" on Wikipedia:WikiProject Museums/Assessment which says "Major Museums of specific types" & "Well known Museums" are Mid with "National Museums", "Types of Museums" & "International Museum Organisations" are High. It would be great if you would join the discussion about these at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Museums where perceptions of "greatest paintings" can see if they get general acceptance - but I don't think the sites selected for your ashes will make it into the criteria.— Rod talk 19:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Please stop the edit war over at User:Vintagekits. There is absolutely no policy in WP:BP or anywhere else that supports either view in this rather trivial incident to get excited about. Most blocking admins do tend to replace the whole userpage with the blocked template, because;
Please leave the page as it is now. It is really not worth warring over and getting blocked over. Thankyou. Lra drama 10:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I can help. El_C 13:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I happened to notice you were working on the Winter Palace article - there are a lot of freely-licensed images here. If there are any you would like, just let me know and I'd be happy to copy them to the project for you. Kelly hi! 12:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I grabbed some interior shots - not sure if you can use any of them but have a look when you get a chance:
This is just a sampling of some that I was able to dig up...if this is the type of thing you're searching for, or have any special requests, I will be happy to try. I found many interior Hermitage shots, but I'm not sure if you're interested in any of those or just strictly the Winter Palace for now. Kelly hi! 16:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The piano nobile images are only plonked there at the moment so I remember what is what. Giano ( talk) 16:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I think Renaissance architecture is in need of protection! You are doing a noble job there, but it the problem appears to be never ending. Amandajm ( talk) 07:00, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
You might want to weigh in on the ANI discussion here - Alison ❤ 08:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
That's twice in 24 hours when I have unequivocally agreed with you - MONGO and Vintagekits. Obviously Bishzilla has burned some sense into one or both of us. Guy ( Help!) 15:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support in my RFA, that didn't quite make it and ended at 120/47/13. There was a ton of great advice there, that I'm going to go on. Maybe someday. If not, there are articles to write! Thanks for your support. Lawrence § t/ e 17:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
How's it coming along? -- Counter-revolutionary ( talk) 19:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey Giano, just letting you know I removed your section in the arbitrators voting section. As I hope you can understand, to leave such comments there will create a major headache in many cases to come. I'm sure the arbitrators will see your most recent comment via the use of a subsection, which will appear in the table of contents (and stand out a tad!). Edit summary; happy to discuss if you disagree. Cheers, Daniel ( talk) 12:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
You are in danger of violating WP:3RR, further reverts will result in blocking [67] [68] [69]. (1 == 2)Until 22:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
That's most kind, thank you for pointing that out. What a sad day when we can no longer ask one of our Arbs a straight, honest and civil question. When exactly were you promoted to the Arbcom 1=2?, or are you just some form of staff? Giano ( talk) 22:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I know from history that you endorse the fact that Wikipedians are allowed to remove content from their user talk pages, this is also accepted by the community at large. I would grant this courtesy to any user who was having a message repeatedly reverted back onto their page against their will. You have done well to chose a neutral and topical venue to re-post your concerns, your posting at Wikipedia talk:CheckUser is a perfectly reasonable way to pursue these concerns. Thanks. (1 == 2)Until 22:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Giano, but calling other editors stalkers and such failure to assume good faith is exactly what you have been warned against by the arbitration committee. Combined with edit warring on another editor's talk page and trying to bring a disruptive dispute elsewhere; this behavior will have you blocked swiftly unless you desist immediately. — Coren (talk) 22:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Reason: Violating Arbcom civility parole, editwarring, gaming the system, and disruption. If you want to contest this, use the {{ unblock}} template. Kwsn (Ni!) 23:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I think Giano's stalking comment was his way of saying that 1==2 seemed to be following him around Wikipedia - ie. wiki-stalking (I don't actually think that was the case, but those with large watchlists sometimes give that impression). This is, of course, completely different from being stalked in real life. When 1==2 said "consider I have been stalked in the past", I am unclear what type of stalking he is referring to - wiki-stalking or real-life stalking? Anyway, as a compromise, I suggest that someone set the block to expire before Giano gets back. Might avoid drama all round. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I have unblocked Giano II because it seems to be a consensuns what the block was improper Alex Bakharev ( talk) 23:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Please discuss mine and Kwsn's actions on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Giano_II Alex Bakharev ( talk) 00:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks all of you, friends in need are friends indeed! I shall be away for most of today, when I return I expect the matter to be sorted. I have 100% evidence that this block was called for and orchestrated on IRC#admins. I expect those admins concerned to no longer have access to IRC by 17.00 GMT today. If they are still there, then we shall have to discuss fully why, and what can be done to resolve these ongoing issues, but hopefully that won't be necessary. This is exactly the sort of disruption the Arbcom planned with their petty sanction, let's just see if they truly want to prolong this now regular disruption. I am in contact with one of the more reasonable Arbs, or at least one who seems anxious to calm troubled waters, so hopefully a solution is at hand. Thanks again. Giano ( talk) 06:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Utgard, very succinct as always. I have just posted the following on ANI, but i think things are more read here, si I will ost my views here too:
I am not opening a debate with FT2 on the block - it was wrong - end of story. I 've had quite enough of his prevarication and doublespeak. The block was organized and inspired on IRC, rather than in discussion on Wiki, as it should have been. I had already remarked on the the coincidence of 1=2 being constantly at my shoulder, with his clever comments, a couple of days before. My comment to 1=2 was in fact quite good humoured, any fool could see I was clearly not suggesting that he is following me about in Ragusa with a poisoned unbrella. This sort of troublemaking block orchestrated on IRC, will be the last such there. I am now completely resolved to see that pointless chatroom cleaned up or closed. They have had their chance. A couple of weeks ago FT2 informed us there was no problem (remenber he had to block me to prove the point for asking). Well now we know he was either lying or mistaken, frankly it matters not which, in short he has have blown his chance. We can all see now there is a problem, and if he and the Arbs won't tackle it, then I will. That also includes the foul mouthed discussion which took place there after the block. I have logs from three separate sources and continents all identical. If the Arbs refuse to ban editors from IRC who abuse the chat room, then that chatroom must be closed for the good of the project. I will not be shut up by Arbcom members such as we have, trying to hide problems. Giano ( talk) 12:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
As you write this, please remember that if you make edits that are personal attacks or assumptions of bad faith, you may be blocked, per the arbcom sanction. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
It had nothing to do with what was discussed on IRC. DS ( talk) 01:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
(okay) DS ( talk) 01:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The above is a stage managed converstion, in what is clearly a desperate attempt to redeem themselves. It fails. Giano ( talk) 05:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
These comments are clearly uncivil and make an assumption of bad faith. [72] [73] [74] Can you give a reason why you should not be blocked for making them? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Giano, again I ask you: Do you have an explanation for why you shouldn't receive a block for what appears to be intentional incivility, and assumption of bad fatih? You seem to have gone out of your way to express yourself offensively. Surely you don't think that doing so is appropriate. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I just can't get over the impression that the recent set of escapades at this page by some above is nothing but trolling in the purest form of the distressed editor. I was looking for any other explanation and could not find it. I am not supporting everything Giano, although I think his heart is in the right place on most issues, but even with his mistakes I can't make sense of what is happening here.
Just two recent examples. Giano created a placeholder for an essay at his talk. No content yet and CBM plants this. Does this look helpful by any stretch?
Next, ANI thread several hours old seen by hundreds of admins. Seems to have cooled down and suddenly this. Or is it just me?
I am trying hard to find any other reasonable explanation and I can't. Is it possible that this is so simple? I know that "trolling" is a strong word but that I am not alone in seeing this activity as such makes this unpleasant explanation ever more plausible.
Sigh. I doubt it was the ArbCom's intention to sanction that kind of activity. Or was it? No, can't be. But why then the arbs don't react? -- Irpen 05:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to warn all relevant editors against provoking and biting Giano as well as Giano against being easily provoked Alex Bakharev ( talk) 05:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just read most of your essay, "A fool's guide to writing a featured article", which I found highly enlightening and entertaining! An article I'm currently working on, Elaine Paige, has been put up for a peer review by myself, but it hasn't really sparked much interest. I was wondering that if you had some time to spare (I know time is always of the essence here on Wikipedia) could you perhaps briefly skim the article and give some suggestions for improvement? If I'm feeling brave enough, I might even nominate it for FAC, it depends really. If you haven't the time, then no worries. Many thanks. Eagle Owl ( talk) 19:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Want something to take your mind off IRC stuff? Why not try reading about the 19th century scientists I've been creating stubs on? Have a look at Augustus Matthiessen, George Fownes, Thomas Snow Beck, Martin Barry, and John Allan Broun. What do you think? Carcharoth ( talk) 23:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
[76] What a lovely sight. I shall mark my calendar for April 28th - and reserve the evening before for vandalism patrol. Risker ( talk) 07:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[77] FYI. Avruch T 16:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The AE thread has been closed. I think (and others agree) that this was essentially a continuation of the long discussion about the past block/unblock. There were many questions and comments about that block/unblock. The continued queries about different aspect of the issue blended in with the block discussion kept the discussion going long past the time of an ordinary discussion about a block/unblock.
I hope everyone that asked and answered a question about the block will reflect on whether continuing the discussion was helpful or caused more stress. Less (from everyone) can be more... :) Have a nice night. Take care, FloNight ♥♥♥ 23:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano you may remember me from the day a chance remark on your talk page led to me being blocked indefinitely. As you may know, I am appealing my block to the Arbcom. Only one problem: they are ignoring every email and communication I am making with them, despite having invited me to make this appeal in December. If there is any help you or your friends could give, I would be so grateful. Yours, Peter. Peter Damian ( talk) 17:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted your addition of this, since it seems to have been added with no reason. There should be either a specific discussion about this on the article's talk page, or there should be a pointer to a more centralised discussion, since I see you have added this message to many such articles without any good reason for it being added given. DDStretch (talk) 21:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I am asked to draw your attention to this: WP:AN/I#Derogatory comments in apparent contravention of an Arbcomm ruling. DDStretch (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Question - is there a different meaning of enfilade besides the one the link leads to? Perhaps something more architectural? This definition just doesn't seem to fit very well in this sentence: "Designed as an enfilade and a ceremonial route to the throne room, the processional route begins with an external horseshoe-shaped staircase which leads from the court of honour to the open gallery known as the Gallery of Hercules." Just seems a little odd to have a combination ceremonial route and firing range, but what do I know about medieval castles? Risker ( talk) 05:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Giacomo, do you remember this link on your page ? A call for help indeed. I'm worried about it. Bishonen | talk 10:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC).
As a courtesy, I would give you notice I have made a request here to amend the wording of your parole. I do this without any expectation that you are at all interested in such details, or that you would expect it to effect you in how you conduct yourself.
...but then, I'm not doing it for you! ;~) LessHeard vanU ( talk) 13:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano, well done on starting this one. I have added the Palace of Westminster, with plan and description. Feel free to re-write if you wish, as given your architectural expertise you are better placed. By the way, I note all the shenanigans that regularly take place on Wikipedia and therefore offer you tea and sympathy...
with a shout of "More power to your elbow!" As you were, then. FClef (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano you may remember me from the day a chance remark on your talk page led to me being blocked indefinitely. As you may know, I am appealing my block to the Arbcom. Only one problem: they are ignoring every email and communication I am making with them, despite having invited me to make this appeal in December. If there is any help you or your friends could give, I would be so grateful. Yours, Peter. Peter Damian ( talk) 17:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Giacomo, do you remember this link on your page ? A call for help indeed. I'm worried about it. Bishonen | talk 10:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC).
I found this really interesting story about the joys of being on the main page. No dongers so far, or at least if there was one I missed it, but all the rest seems to be coming true. Have a good Monday. Risker ( talk) 06:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, as you probably know, this Sunday the Easter also arrived to the Eastern Orthodox world. To mark this event and make a small present for you, here is the great piece of one of my favorite Ukrainian painters depicting this event in my homeland as he saw it a little over 100 years ago. Enjoy! -- Irpen 07:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Well said, sir. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 20:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
You can sometimes find a good article mixed in with all the junk and junque. I just found De Rays Expedition, and it's pretty neat. Utgard Loki ( talk) 18:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Please clarify your remarks at User talk:Peter Damian, either on-wiki or by email. Thatcher 22:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
You might find this little outfit to be just what you need for those interesting little tête-à-têtes you're so fond of [78]. I think the colour would suit you. Risker ( talk) 22:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Tsk. That's a clear conflict of interest! :-) I took a quick look for other Giano's, and I found your kingdom, sir, a writer on the On the Dignity and Excellence of Man, your holiday home, and a disambiguation page that needs expanding. By the way, if you ever do apply for the mop, make sure you tell people that you are this super-admin! :-) Carcharoth ( talk) 09:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Those terms are fine by me, they should appease the sceptical as they look pretty weasel-proof (I like the idea of including clauses against even trying to wikilawyer them). If he will sign up for that, I think it will be a good result for the project. Only one thing: the subject area might eb slightly wider, perhaps including all sporting articles not related to the Troubles, broadly interpreted. I think he wants to work on Olympic subjects other than just boxing, but I could be wrong about that. Guy ( Help!) 09:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I've added the Bastard pics of the Bastard study in the Bastard house, but the sizing is all to cock. Can you fiddle please Giano? Captions probably need tinkering with as well as I don't know my cornicing from my coping. Cheers Jasper33 ( talk) 20:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
A few months ago I was able to, through lengthy discourses with arbcom-l (ones which especially emphasized their own responsibility, publicly), to arrange for a new approach toward dealing with pro-pedophilia activists (including self-declared ones). The result was highly positive: these were to be banned on sight, and all discussion (including appeals) were to be facilitated in private with the Arbitration Committee. For months and months the new policy worked without any substantive objections from admins, not to mention outright rebellion.
Que in Carnildo a few days ago who went to unblock a recently-banned self-identified account ( blocked by Dmcdevit). The account was re-blocked a few days later by an AC member ( Morven), although unfortunately with zero consequences or even a warning from our benevolent Committee. Then today, Carnildo maintains that he "would have reacted more forcefully if the user hadn't apparently left the project a month ago", adding that "there's no real point in fighting a battle for someone who isn't here anymore." Which seems to be a declaration of rebellion with the AC and their decision, and a willingness to "fight" it out in the future (including undiscussed unblocks, ones not cleared with the AC).
Therefore, I am going to ask that the Pedophilia RfAr (which infamously desysop'd Carnildo for having blocked both yourself & yours truly indefinitely for "hate speech") to be reopened so his conduct is examined and his sysop flag removed for breach of ethics. Any thoughts? Best, El_C 21:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I note your statement here with interest. Are you able to point me to where BHG was warned for using her admin tools to block Vk? I'd be interested to see that. What are you trying to achieve here, to score points over admins you've disagreed with, or to write an encyclopedia? Can you honestly say, hand-on-heart, that allowing Vk to edit again is likely to be a net benefit to the project? Please answer here, I'll watch it. Thanks in advance. -- John ( talk) 15:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I've seen that you've contributed before to the Mary Seacole article, would you like to become involved again? Rudget ( Help?) 17:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. As I wrote in my e-mail, here are a few pics I took yesterday at Quinta da Regaleira. I hope they draw your interest to this most astonishingly remarkable place.
Best regards, Hús ö nd 15:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
[81] Always great to see excellent contributors turning over a new leaf. Let's hope this is a model for addressing similar situations in the future. Risker ( talk) 13:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. Would you be interested in Albert Memorial? I've taken it as far as I can (well, maybe a bit more on the history from the nice online history), but the architectural stuff is a bit beyond me. Any advice? Carcharoth ( talk) 14:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Greetings, Giano. I notice that you've done a lot of work on Libro d'Oro, even to supplying a self-made image of a copy. Do you happen to possess, or have access to, a copy of the most recent (22nd) edition? Over the past few months a user named Mctrain (now indef blocked as a sockpuppet of the original Vitus Barbaro proponent, Tiki-two) has been readding a bunch of dubious material to Barbaro family and elsewhere—you may have noticed his activities on various Italian villa articles. Now that he's gone, at least for a while, I thought I'd start trying to clean up some of the material he's introduced. The main source he's cited for the material relating to the Barbaro family and various members thereof is Spreti's Enciclopedia storico-nobiliare italiana, which I can, without too much trouble, get my hands on to check his contributions. But he's cited the Libro d'Oro to introduce another mention of Vitus B., and I can't locate a local copy of that. He's not above playing fast and loose with sources; he likes to cite difficult-to-locate ones, and when he created an article about the supposed Vitus B.'s supposed mother, it took me some effort to track down the sources he cited, only to find that not one of them mentioned the lady or supported any of the information in the article. Anyway, if you can give me any Golden Book help, I'll appreciate it. Deor ( talk) 22:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I got there from Bishonen's awards page and just assumed that if it had an award it must be in mainspace. I only read the first two lines of the article and noticed an "unencyclopedic" phrase which I rectified. Then I read a couple more lines and suddenly realized I was reading a parody in user space. Egg on face there I'm afraid :/ Gatoclass ( talk) 08:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. Good to know you think I’m reliable enough. I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Best, Risker ( talk) 16:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Featured Article Medal | |
For all your contributions to featured content, especially the articles related to New Zealand architecture. Thanks for all your work. Shudde talk 13:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC) |
Thanks for uploading Image:Addlebook.gif. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.
Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI ( talk) 15:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Although you opposed me in my recent RFA I will still say thanks as from your comments and the other users comments that opposed me I have made a todo list for before my next RFA. I hope I will have resolved all of the issues before then and I hope that you would be able to support me in the future. If you would like to reply to this message or have any more suggestions for me then please message me on my talk page as I will not be checking back here. Thanks again. ·Add§hore· Talk/ Cont 16:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I've written this article as an attempt to introduce the articles on DNA, Gene and Genetics in a completely non-technical and approachable way. I was looking for some good editors with no background in science to look this over and advise me on how it could be improved. Would you have time to help with this? All the best Tim Vickers ( talk) 16:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Where are you, Giacomo? Bishonen | talk 21:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC).
It's a factual recitation of the outcome; dispute it elsewhere if you must. Thatcher 14:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I see from the above section that things are heating up again round here. Should I go and upload some pictures I have of French chateaux, or should I go read about the latest developments? Sorry if this strikes the wrong tone, but coming back from a holiday and seeing the same old disputes going on is rather tiresome. Maybe Arbcom should be limited to behavioural disputes that affect article content, rather than disputes that are just interpersonal disputes and don't affect articles? I'm as guilty as many of typing far too much in project space and project talk pages and noticeboards, but the old saw about "writing an encyclopedia" is as true now as it was then. Carcharoth ( talk) 18:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
About your recent frustrations, may I recommend either a sustained period of content editing or a proper break? I find a complete break for a week or two really does help, and so does content editing. I wouldn't worry too much about your reputation or that of arbcom. Well, when I say that, I mean that your reputation is the only one you can really affect, and I wouldn't worry about those people who are too inflexible to change their minds. Better to let your (editing) actions speak louder than words for those who are prepared to change their minds, and to let arbcom do their work - no-one can agree with all their actions and decisions, but specific (and calm) criticisms are better than generalised and hurtful comments. It is clear by now to anyone watching that you disagree with their decision in your case, but at some point you have to let things go. That's my advice, anyway. Talk to it about people off-wiki as well, including arbitrators as well if you are still prepared to talk to them - I think you will find some of them (including some of those that you are maligning) are more approachable off-wiki than on-wiki (it is understandable that many arbitrators are more formal on-wiki, and some are just, to be frank, overworked or no longer interested, from what I can see). Hope that helps for what it is worth. Carcharoth ( talk) 06:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thatcher, how do you mean "dispute it elsewhere"? Where would that be? As Ryan points out, it's a closed case. Seriously, where are you advising Giano to dispute it? Mmm? Bishonen | talk 19:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC).
In accordance with Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC#Civility:_Giano, you are blocked for 3 hours for making edits which constitute uncivility, personal attacks, and/or assumptions of bad faith at User talk:Bishonen. Stifle ( talk) 15:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
While I support you in general, Giano, I think altering the decision pages of completed ArbCom cases is not a reasonable thing for you to do. There are some ArbCom decisions that I myself think are ridiculous, but I don't go around trying to change history by altering the pages announcing them. *Dan T.* ( talk) 22:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Turns out that Artichoke2020 had in mind to start his own personal list of potential FAR candidates, and was starting from the Arts&Architecture section, so your next potential FARs were first, but not alone; he's now asked to have his list speedy deleted. Perhaps someone got him to stop by pointing him to Sandy's existing list of articles that will go to FAR? Eventually those articles will either have to be re-referenced or de-featured, but I'd follow Sandy's expectations rather than this editor's. She's just heading out on holidays or I'd ask her what her usual practices are, but I think it's adding one or two articles a week to FAR. Risker ( talk) 20:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Talking of vegetables, I discovered that the Loire Valley is famous for asparagus. The vegetable of kings apparantly, thanks to the Sun King himself, who made it a royal dish. Sadly, Wikipedia doesn't yet seem to have cottoned on to this. Actually, no, I will have to eat my esparge shoots, as our article Argenteuil does mention the connection, though Sologne does not (lots of asparagus grown in the sandy soils there). And yes, we do have User:Asparagus. We also have the original User:Artichoke (the account was created but has not been used yet), and doubtless as many other editorial culinary delights as people are willing to keep typing in... Carcharoth ( talk) 21:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano. I've just read through Belton House and wanted to say what a great job you've done! However (not to dampen the mood), I was wondering if you'd be able to re-upload the pictures in anything other than .gif files, as they seem to have lost some of their colour? Regards, Craigy ( talk) 05:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I am aiming to nominate this article for GA and to be a FA on 21 June. If you can suggest any improvements to the article please let me know.-- Vintagekits ( talk) 12:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
See here. I noticed cos someone stuck a ref in the article (without closing a ref tag). Carcharoth ( talk) 21:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Giano, how are the duties of being a great and famous Wikipedian treating you? I just finished a featured article project this evening and was wondering if you wanted to make a push on the Winter Palace. I was tinkering away a bit on it tonight. -- JayHenry ( talk) 03:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Ciao, ti avviso che l'articolo Holkham Hall è stato proposto per la rimozione dalla vetrina. Sei pregato di partecipare alla discussione o di migliorare la voce - anche dato che io voglio tradurla in italiano. Felice di conoscere un'altra persona della mia nazionalità =) Mojska all you want 07:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Gino, I am new at this so sorry in advance for any mistakes! Regarding your comments on the Saunders Goode Mansion in Town Creek Alabama...I agree with the majority of them. However, I feel that you should be aware that I have seen the house many times in person and done extensive research on the history of it and...Yes...It has been altered drastically. Many things which are now prominent to the house were not even features in the original construction. Sad that such a magnificent home is now left to run down and decay! Not to mention the fact that it was altered this way in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.214.15 ( talk • contribs) 15:02, 13 June 2008
Thanks Wetman. It's always sad to see an old house in such a state of dereliction, whatever its architectural value. If you click on the image and look at it properly it is in a sad state of repair - pity. I am still stupid enough to think buildings have souls, well some, so I hate seeing them in disrepair - is there not an "Historic Buildings of Alabama Society" lots of botoxed ladies to give charity balls to save it? Giano ( talk) 19:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
When you get the chance, you might want to check this and this out. -- Dragon695 ( talk) 02:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
And does edit! I've just learned that as a museum, Sir John Soane's Museum is of low importance. I'd never have realized that, if it hadn't been for Wikipedia. I'll toss my various books about Soane's works into the trash over the weekend. Thank the gods for Wikiprojects; they do such a good job of standardizing articles! -- Hoary ( talk) 15:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Nude on a clamshell? <quizzical frown> Oh, hang on, you mean The Birth of Venus (Botticelli), right? You know, I can't really imagine "Giano" as a tour guide in a museum, though come to think of it, maybe I can start to visualise it if I get the right atmosphere and audience. Hmm. Wikiversity has already been started. Wikimuseum doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but you never know. Or Wikitourguides or something? Carcharoth ( talk) 12:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I've started to expand this a couple of days ago. I'm really enjoying it and I'm glad I found a lot of online material for it. Feel free to join in anytime you feel thrilled for it. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 16:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Is? Ceoil sláinte 22:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll undelete it for you - it was sent over to Commons. Risker ( talk) 10:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Giano. I have reverted a recent comment on yours because it "outs" another editor who chose to change accounts for a justifiable reason. Please don't do that. Feel free to reinstate the comment without that particular piece of information if you would like. Rockpocke t 16:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh Kittybrewster here [92] that was just an inspired guess, he was calling himself the milkman the other day, one never know where one is with that duplicitious crew, and don't tell me what to do! Giano ( talk) 18:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that when things get too boring and drama-less we can always count that if 1=2 is not around, Rockpocket would be happy to replace him to inflame things by blowing up every issue related to Giano through escalating provocations, warnings and block threats. Why can't these two just leave it to others to patrol Giano escapes me. -- Irpen 19:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I asked the question at ANI. See, Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Rockpocket_blatant_abuse:_can_desysop_be_made_with_lesser_hassle_than_going_through_ArbCom.3F. Hopefully, this can be handled swiftly. -- Irpen 19:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I am not going to edit war with you, but please do not call my removal of your comment "trolling". Assume good faith and realize I did it to protect the privacy of other Wikipedians. The last thing I want is to inflame the situation, and I resent your constant implications that I am every time I have a differing opinion than you. 1 != 2 20:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to bring up the whole kerfluffle regarding the accounts you linked. I'm just going to ask you NOT to add the section again to CR's talk page. You've been asked by the talk page owner not to add that statement again. Please respect their wishes THIS matter as a favor to me, ok? If you want to discuss the other side of this, you have my email, right? SirFozzie ( talk) 21:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano, I'm going to copy what I said in the ANI discussion.
1=2, you're not on the right track here. Kittybrewster decided to make another account due to what he considered a threatening atmosphere on WP due to past history (actually, considering the amount that has gone under the bridge, I think that word should be all caps and bolded, like HISTORY). Now, that would have been fine, except the new account did all the same things that KB did, and showed a remarkable amount of prior knowledge of the people, personalities and issues of the prior history. To be quite frank, to the extent that any "outing" occured, KB/Berks did it to himself. You're allowed to call the Elephant in the Room an elephant. Endorse the unblock.
That part, you are FULLY in the right on. But after CR asked you to not post on his talk page any more? After you were already at 3 Reverts on CR's talk page? Giano, listen to me here.. you WERE being disruptive. Look at what I said above. Look at the fact that even folks like Ryan agree with the block for DISRUPTION, not for outing (and it's only 3 hours.. if I had waited a few more seconds, you would've been blocked for 24!). I truly AM on your side in all of this. Just don't post that part on CR's page any more.. it's counterproductive, man. SirFozzie ( talk) 22:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I (as Risker and others do) have some considerable trouble with the notion that someone gets to start over, over and over, changing names but not habits. This editor has been warned, by some who know the new identity, that they need to discontinue their old ways, old editing behaviours, or there will be someone who will put 2 and 2 together again. Doing sums is not in and of itself a reason for blocking, I don't think. But I do agree with those who point out that there are more effective ways of raising the issue than edit warring. The issue needs raising, make no mistake. But no style points to you, Giano for the moves this time... maybe a bit more finesse next time? You've used more finesse than this in the past, you know you have. ++ Lar: t/ c 23:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
What I have found out so far is that Kittybrewster felt he had received a threat to his safety, and switched to a new account in an attempt to improve his privacy. I'm not sure it was officially "approved" so much as this is a courtesy we extend to many editors and I believe he informed a few checkusers/Arbitrators. As far as I can tell, the account(s) were not used abusively (no double-voting or commenting as if he was two people). Kittybrewster appears to be an editor in good standing--no outstanding blocks or bans, so I don't see this as being a problem. Of course, he continued to edit in an identifiable manner, which is no one's fault but his own, and I think any charge of "outing" is patently ridiculous. At this point Kittybrewster has declared an intent to open another new account, and he has been warned that it is no one's responsibility but his own to maintain his privacy, and if he edits in an identifiable manner he will not be protected. I don't know whom he feels threatened by; perhaps he would tell you his new account if you asked.
I have mixed feelings about the blocks. In my version of an ideal wikipedia, you would post your comment, then someone would tell you "He is trying to quietly use a new name for privacy, it would be polite to respect that" and you would do the polite thing and drop it or pursue discussions privately. I think C-r is within his rights to ask you not to post to his talk page and to remove your comments. I do not think it was necessary or wise of Rockpocket and 1=2 to appoint themselves defender of C-r's talk page. I think it was also unnecessary and unwise for Rockpocket and 1=2 to appoint themselves defenders of Berks' privacy, as Berks' gave away the game himself through his edits. The first block for "outing" was unacceptable. By the time of the second block you had been told that KB had adopted a new account for privacy reasons; it would have been far better to pursue inquiries quietly or to just be polite and let it drop. Instead, having poked the anthill with a stick a few times already, you gave it another good poke to see what else you could stir up. So the perverse result is that the second block was reasonable, but that you wouldn't have acted in that manner but for the first block (maybe). I don;t have any simple solutions to this.
Thatcher 23:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, I just can't help but bring up a recent incident over a totally different editor who attempted to start over because the comparison is really obvious. An editor who does write a lot of content and sources his edits, has, at the same time, some obvious POV issues and is prone to edit warring. His block log reflects that but nowhere he was close to being banned from the site. Now, a certain admin took it upon himself to monitor that editor closely for whatever reason. So far, so good. The said admin decides that the editor needs to be blocked for 10 days at some point. I cannot comment on that since I was not following that user's edits. Perhaps a block was justifiable. Now, it gets interesting. A user waits out his block and after the block runs out, starts a new account and abandons the old one. After a while, an edit pattern similarity becomes suspicious to an admin and he leaves a permanent mark in the user's block log through a 1 second block pointing out to the old account to make sure, the user carries on the block log from the old account.
Now, we are not talking about a talk page message that can be removed, admin-oversighted or even fully over-sighted. We are talking about a permanent block log earmark, something that was removed only once in the Wikipedia history. Apparently, it was considered OK, despite WP:BLOCK explicitly prohibits blocks whose sole purpose is leaving a negative record. I did not see the said admin reprimanded in any way.
Giano did much less, left a message at talk about something so blatantly obvious and about an editor so blatantly disruptive that does not even compare to the case above. Apparently, this user has "permission from Rockpocket" and this makes a whole lot of difference. Giano gets blocked indefinitely, Rockpocket remains unapologetic and 1=2 is all over pages to cheer the Giano's block. Now, if this is all how things are supposed to work, Wikipedia is deeply screwed up. -- Irpen 23:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
You're retiring? Caught me off guard, too say the least. GoodDay ( talk) 00:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano I commend you on your efforts today, You are not the only one who is aware of the situation that is going on see here. BigDunc Talk 01:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Giano, Rockpocket requests that I do not post at his page. He did not have to ask since I already said all I have to say that is discretion blocking needs conferring, blocking an editor indefinitely on the whim should result in desysopping and admin's unhumble demeanor always make matters worse. But I just want to make an unrelated observation regarding the further exchanges you had with that fellow.
Now, there seems to be an argument as to who said what and when in your email exchanges with him. I think the problem here is that this email correspondence occurred in the first place. I recommend against talking off-record with people who might misrepresent you at some point. Talking onwiki has this beauty of an easy to check who said what and when and no BS flies. People who talk off-line with untrustworthy individuals open a possibility of this "you said in the email to me that..." stuff. Do you remember how Durova managed to dupe Alex into believing that her action against !! was prompted by an ugly email harassment campaign against female editors and when Alex ask for clemency over her because of that she retracted that stuff claiming that she never said that making Alex look like a fool? It is best to keep all correspondence with the individuals who might later misrepresent you onwiki. Just a suggestion. -- Irpen 21:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I left a message for your question on the talk page. sincerely Gryffindor 21:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I have not participated in the RockPocket debate at all (there are already plenty of participants and plenty of teh dramaz), but I have been following it pretty closely. From one editor to another, I would strongly urge you to just let it go at this point. Whether it's fair or not, if you keep pressing this issue it's just going to get uglier and uglier, and it could come back to bite you, and hard. I have no comment about the thread itself -- only that pressing the issue on ANI is not going to result in anything positive. It really is just not worth it.
Best of luck, whether you decide to continue or not. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 15:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
It was more fun hearing listening to you rant about how incompetent the arbcom it than it is to see the current proof of it.
Kind of like the difference between having a light conversation about how one thinks that his neighbor may be a little touched in the head as opposed to the reality of seeing that neighbor alone in his apartment, wearing a tattered robe and mumbling incoherently while surrounded by stacks of old newspapers and cat poop. Versaversa ( talk) 12:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)