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Sure, I'd work on the California task force. Rosiestep ( talk) 02:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
When you removed the G5 speedy-deletion templates from these articles, you stated (or at least implied) that you would be taking responsibility for their contents, not merely shielding the unwelcome (and suspect) work of a banned contributor. I realize that only a couple of days have passed, but if you have not been able to get down to the task of thoroughly researching these articles and verifying them, I suggest that it is time for you to either move them to your user space (so you can work on them later) or expect an AfD process to begin. -- Orlady ( talk) 16:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Wikipedia talk:LAHCM ( | project page | history | links | watch | logs) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. MBisanz talk 09:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Billwhittaker recently put together an article for the Bertrand Site in Washington County, Nebraska under the name of Steamboat Bertrand, along with several pictures. Which picture from the article do you think is best suited to the county list? I've put the picture of the model on the list for now, but I wonder if the picture of the artifacts might be better. Nyttend ( talk) 15:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Is "declared" the official NHL term, or is it just the one that's preferred by WP:NRHP? Seeing your edit to the Wyoming list today reminded me of the question, which had occasionally popped into my head for quite a while now. Nyttend ( talk) 16:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I opened an Unban proposal, which also includes a topic ban request on User:Orlady, at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Proposal for unban, apology, amnesty for Jvolkblum and related others, and topic ban for Orlady. This may reduce my availability to address other matters. doncram ( talk) 00:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I meant to reply earlier to your kind invitation to participate in WikiProject Historic Sites. I seem to find myself up to my ears in reviewing, research, and writing, and I must regretfully decline. I wish you luck. Finetooth ( talk) 15:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I am sooooo happy to be for once roughly on the same side as you instead of being polarized opposition! Per your request that previous arguments be restated for the benefit of newcomers to the discussion I have added a new section to the argument on my personal opinions, as the person who kinda started all this. (Sorry about that). My goal is not to remove the name Loudonville and replace it with Newtonville. Simply to state that there is some wiggle room or unclear relationship between whether the college is in Newtonville or not, I think it is important for the article of Newtonville, New York to mention Siena College but that keeps getting an "undo" put on it due to the dispute here. Without compromise here the Newtonville article loses one of its most important aspects of why it should even exist. Camelbinky ( talk) 21:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I liked the joke about the bar in the Pinebush. That was really good. Tell you what- next time you find yourself in an argument on an article let me in on it and I will start breaking chairs over people's heads! Camelbinky ( talk) 06:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC) Have you gone and read the comments made by some other people on hippo's talk page? This really seems like a common thing to happen with him, he's been blocked for editing warring before, others have accused him of edit warring many times without taking things to the talk page to explain why he reverted in the first place and to continue to do it after a discussion begins and is ongoing. To continually insist the article remains HIS way while a discussion is ongoing and no concensus has been reached seems arrogant and against wiki civility if not policy. Contact them if you think it might help. I have said to hippo before, and I dont care if an admin warns me on it in the future, I really think what hippo likes to do is clearly trolling, he uses wikipolicy as a shield but the essays out there on trolls say they often do that, that having policy on their side isnt a defense. For the longest time we had a concensus of 5-1 on a reasonable compromise, it should have stayed that way. Now others have gotten fed up and left the argument. I really think you should bring this to the next level of whatever. I went and got a second opinion (daniel case), and that wasnt enough for a resolution, daniel case went and put out a request for comment, that didnt do any good. I support you and am with you the whole way all the way to the end, just lead the way and keep me informed what you need me to do as to where this is going and everything. Camelbinky ( talk) 02:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, you made my nice neat list look sloppy and abandoned it! :) Lvklock ( talk) 00:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Just as a reminder, you're at 3RR on Siena College. I know both sides are discussing this on the talk page (I'm also leaving a warning on the other reverter's page), but please don't edit war, even while talking it over. Good luck on the talk page. Dayewalker ( talk) 01:14, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Hey Doncram,
I am not exactly sure if we have talked before but somehow your talkpage pops up on my watchlist in connection with recent controversies. If we have not met before: "Hello there, nice to meet you!"
There is a lot of stuff going on on Wikipedia that does not head in the right general direction in my humble opinion. It seems that you are under the "suspicion" of being a suckpuppet, meatpuppet or contributor of worthless stubs. In other words, you are a Wiki-terrorist of some sort and every single one of your steps is monitored. The vultures are waiting for you to make a mistake in referencing information in an article. You are under the constant risk of being banned ... just because. Take the articles about New Rochelle referred to above, for example. Two of the three mentioned are stubs and one looks quite good to me. I did not check them in detail but the two stubs, again in my humble opinion only, should have a right to exist on Wikipedia. I have produced stubs like this myself and some topics do not have enough to write about (for now) but they still have a right to exist on Wikipedia and are helpful, at least in my understanding of the Wikipedia project. I have seen stubs created by the person accusing you (O), that were of the same grade or lower and they are still part of the encyclopedia. Stubs are something other editors can add to. Babies are not born fully grown either ...
The rating system here includes stubs and that is great. No editor, apprentice admin or admin, in my opinion, should be allowed to criticize or attempt to delete an article just because it is short and incomplete. The last definition of a stub that I use to assess articles is this one: A stub class article "provides very little meaningful content; may be little more than a dictionary definition". (This is the definition taken from the Wikiproject Tennessee assessment page) That definition would cover every very short article that does not include information that is proven incorrect. I am opposed to develop articles in the user space in most cases, there might be instances where it is appropriate but this is not and should not be a general rule to adhere to and no one should be required to do so. Wikipedia claims that it can be edited by anyone, but that is only possible if the article develops in the open, where everyone has access to it. You can do it in the user space, if you want, but you don't have to. In general, secrecy about things related to Wikipedia should be forbidden.
If stub articles are unwanted, due to community consensus, the rating system should be changed to "perfect" (the lowest grade), "even more perfect", "apprentice admin approved perfect" and "admin approved perfect" (the highest grade, which can only be reached if you have good contacts to people in admin positions to grant that status). Please excuse my sarcasm here. But it is not only about the stubs, it is how (some) people treat other editors here, but still find supporting votes when they seek or are suggested for adminship. I have read your complaint about O and her paranoid behavior when it is about sockpuppets. Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate O's contributions and they are of value for the Wikipedia project, as well are yours. But there seem to be personal issues that get mingled up with Wikipedia. At any company you would get fired if you mix your personal deficiencies with job related tasks and that has a negative impact. Not here. I wonder why?
Maybe, maybe, Wikipedia is a psychological experiment. To see how Orwell's Animal Farm works out with real people. An experiment to find out how well it works if a group of people, essentially working on the same project, is given the opportunity to organize itself and make their own rules to govern itself. If I had to make a judgement about this question today, with the limited perspective I have of Wikipedia ... I would say, the experiment is a failure. The pigs are taking over and it is going to get worse. I admire and encourage your persistance to fight the negative and discouraging forces and I appreciate your contributions to improve Wikipedia.
Let me conclude this note with these famous few lines below. So long ago these words were formulated so perfectly, with so much thought, skill and care for the right words by one of the greatest writers of all times. Good old William Shakespeare would not worry about a copyright that might be violated here, I am very sure of that. He would smile in his grave (or where ever he rests in peace) and be proud that what he wrote could not be formulated better by anyone in the in the last 400 years since his work was first published. What if William Shakespeare had been discouraged from writing? A poor place this earth would be ...
“ | To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer |
” |
— - WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE (from Hamlet, 1603) |
Take care and happy editing, doxTxob \ talk 05:57, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
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The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
For your efforts to "take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them", ... hopefully. doxTxob \ talk 02:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC) |
Hi doncram ... Based on your edits to National Register of Historic Places listings in Los Angeles, you seem to have knowledge of the neighborhoods of LA, would you please the neighborhoods for the 7 listings added to the NRHP this week? I placed 6 of the 7 in South Los Angeles and 1 in Downtown Los Angeles. For future reference, how do you determine which neighborhood a site is in? Thanks. -- sanfranman59 ( talk) 00:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I thought you might be able to help me find info on Washington Park details about Fountain of Time. Might there be any commentary in the Park's National Register of Historic Places application about the vistas of Fountain of Time. FoT is now at FAC and I have a discussant who is looking for answers.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 02:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
For the Chicago Park District MPS
I got an email response with new insttruction: shttp://www.illinoishistory.gov/PS/haargis.htm To use:
Why does your User:Doncram/PR urgents template have a FAC title, which gives you two FAC templates on your user talk page?-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 21:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the FLC had finished successfully. Cool! dm ( talk) 00:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Idaho is finished. Do you think it needs more pictures? If so, you'll have a small selection: there are only 44 pictures for the entire state, and only three counties (Latah, Ada, and Clearwater, with 9, 7, and 3 respectively) have more than 2. Even Bear Lake County, with 92 sites, has just 1 picture. I'm going to check for HABS pictures; I don't know if any of the pictures currently up are HABS, but there have to be a bunch of them available for download. Nyttend ( talk) 14:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Quite some time ago, you added a HABS pic to this article with the caption "Adams Power Plant, with transformer house in left foreground". I recently added some contemporary pics of the building, and I actually think that the long building on the right side of the pic is the transformer house, based on the pics with the nomination form. I just want to make sure that I'm not missing something before I change the caption. Any thoughts? Lvklock ( talk) 11:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I think we've hammered out a good revised Featured List criteria here. If this passes, there will be quite a few FLs (my estimate is somewhere between 50 and 75) that could soon be delisted just because of 3b. With that in mind, I'd like to get comments and opinions from all FLC regulars and everyone else who has participated in the discussion before it's implemented. Thanks, Scorpion 0422 17:38, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
What was determined with the bot tagging? Where is the bot category list? If List of Chicago Landmarks is listed as a top list-article article, why hasn't it or any of the landmarks it enumerates been tagged?-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 02:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
To anyone who follows my Talk page, which maybe is my blog....I've opened a new discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Long-running problem with respect to New Rochelle area articles.
This relates to a perhaps overly complex 4 part proposal that i opened on March 26, which was closed on March 27 and archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive187#Proposal for unban, apology, amnesty for Jvolkblum and related others, and topic ban for Orlady.
I think it is a problem that won't go away, and I hope that good people will be part of the solution. I hope that this new discussion can at least clarify the problem, if not immediately agree upon a solution. doncram ( talk) 03:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I dislike brandishing the specter of sanctions, but community patience with your argumentative insistence is not infinite. It would be wise of you to find some other area of the encyclopedia to occupy yourself with— or at the very least accept that, no matter how well-intentioned, your repeated intervention are neither productive nor welcome. — Coren (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Here, let me force you to make an uncomfortable and unreasonable decision: Either you stop advocating for banned user Jvolkblum ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) and anyone who appears like a sockpuppet editing New Rochelle articles, or you lose me at WP:NRHP and my contributions to that project. One or the other. It's your choice as to which editor you want to keep. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 16:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Since DoxTxob ( talk · contribs) is working on an RFAR, this discussion has become a moot point. I'll let you guys figure out to do with New Rochelle and with WP:NRHP in general. Thanks to the both of you for reminding me just how badly I can fail in an online community. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey doncram,
Are you interested in filing a request for arbitration in this sockpuppet case? In my view this is heading further and further in the wrong direction. Especially the latest ultimatum by User:Elkman to make you chose between keeping him in that NRHP project or continue to support innocent editors who have been banned. I know what my choice would be.
If you are interested in filing the request it would be great if you could do that because all involved parties need to be named and you are much closer to the topic and more involved than I am. You would probably be able to formulate the case better in 500 words.
The key criticism I see her is (1) that User accounts ar banned for no reason except for sharing an IP with a disruptive editor from the past. Another point (2) is user Orlady's paranoia, she is proud to have already investigated an blocked 66 accounts from editing. The next point (2) is that attempts have been made to discuss this matter in a very reasonable and matter-of-fact fashion whis was cut short twice and was closed after a few hours. In my opinion a discussion that had a reasonable chance to be solved in a civilized manner is avoided and a few "investigators" who obviously have nothing else to do with their lives is busy playing the secret Wiki-Police to feel important and powerful. I also critizise (4) that the group of users denies that there is a problem at all.
Do you agree on these key points for the request? Let me know here on your talk page. If you file the request, I will comment on it. If you chose not to file the request yourself, that would also be fine, then I will file it later today or tomorrow. Take care and happy editing, doxTxob \ talk 19:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I have filed a request for arbitration regarding recent bans of user accounts from which no activities could be found that dispupt Wikipedia. The arbitration request can be found here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Block of editors related to sockpuppet Jvolkblum You are mentioned as an involved party and I hope that your opinion there can contribute to solve the issue. Thank you! doxTxob \ talk 22:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Your comments will be more helpful on the arbitration request page found here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Block of editors related to sockpuppet Jvolkblum. Please do not forget to sign your post with 4 tildes "~~~~" at the end of your comment.
Thank you for making a statement in an Arbitration application on requests for arbitration. We ask all participants and commentators to limit the size of their initial statements to 500 words. Please trim your statement accordingly. If the case is accepted, you will have the opportunity to present more evidence. Neat, concisely presented statements are much more likely to be understood and to influence the decisions of the Arbitrators.
For the Arbitration Committee. KnightLago ( talk) 01:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Since you give me a few things, I'll do likewise:
As far as the research notes — I've always been somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of having them fully visible in the article. You can see that I don't simply go around removing them, but my uncomfortability is the reason that I quickly investigated the issue and added it to the other county list. Could you perhaps comment out these research notes and the list of untableised sites? Again, not a big deal; just a minor concern that definitely doesn't upset me.
[unindent] Thanks for the compliment :-) As far as the new disambiguation notification page: it might be a little while before I do anything with it. I learned about WP:NRIS issues some time before I began using it, simply because I kept forgetting how to get there. I'll try to remember :-) Nyttend ( talk) 00:36, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
All counties are now virtually complete; I'm going through recent listings to get the recent boundary increases, and I'll be adding coords for sites without that I can find. I just made an interesting discovery: were you aware that Montana had two new NHLs in October? The October 10 list shows these sites. I've updated one site's article, but as the other has no article, I didn't write it. Could you also update the NHL list? Nyttend ( talk) 16:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
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02:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey Doncram, please be aware of WP:3RR. By my reckoning you've had 3 reverts in the last 16 hours. It's probably not worth getting blocked over this, or getting the page protected again. -- hippo43 ( talk) 08:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad I got to patch things up with you before retiring from wikipedia. Good luck and thank you for all you taught me, though I was thick-headed and didnt always listen the first time. Give 'em hell. Camelbinky ( talk) 00:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I chose red -> big red apple. Anyway, take a look, especially at the nyc landmark reference, that's the way every reference doc should look. dm ( talk) 04:35, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
At first I thought you meant that an IOOF Hall was up for Good Article :-) Sorry, I'll not be able to do much for the next little while: I have lots of picture work to do (non-NRHP stuff from my spring break trip that yielded lots of Denver NRHP pictures), and schoolwork demands a little time, too :-) I'll get to it when I have time. Nyttend ( talk) 17:59, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I retire from this. You are one of the good guys. Keep going to fight the slings and arrows, it is important. I wish you luck. Take care, doxTxob \ talk 03:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
– Drilnoth ( T • C) 22:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Rodiggidy, Sonkinator, and/or others: I've defended persons that I think were truly treated badly, whether the original Person A or others caught up in sockpuppet accusations since. I don't really much care whether this is all one person or several; you one or all have been treated badly. You've seen, or should have seen by now, my comments in two wp:an discussions and in a request for arbitration. But, if you are creating new accounts or IP-editing, you're not helping.
What you need to do, is to participate in an Unban request and get one account to edit from. The recent wp:an discussions and an arbitration case request did not result in an immediate unban, but the way is open to request one, and to start over. Please contact me via email if you would like my assistance. But if you are more interested in playing a game of provoking W and O, then you will gradually have me joining the opposition to you, despite that putting me in the company of persons who I do think behaved badly. doncram ( talk) 01:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Have you checked to make sure that addresses, communities, listing dates, names, etc. for Oregon are in accord with the NRIS? If I remember right, I read somewhere that the listings had been changed around a lot to favour the Oregon Register's version of this data, at the expense of the National Register. Nyttend ( talk) 01:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram,
I started looking at this a few days ago, after seeing the flurry of activity on AN/RFAR. Frankly, I was puzzled—I know I remember you as a prolific and productive contributor to NRHP articles, and so I didn't understand why you were so vociferous in defending what looked like a fairly serious cluster of sockpuppetry and misbehavior. If I understand the hints you've been dropping correctly, you're saying that some of the accounts now lumped into the "Jvolkblum" cluster of sockpuppets are actually associated with a different person, with a legitimate interest in improving New Rochelle, who's unfairly being blocked due to supposed editing similarities with Jvolkblum. If this is a correct assessment, I'd say that part of the problem is that you've been approaching the case the wrong way, arguing for an "unban". Bans apply to people; in this case, the person behind the Jvolkblum account. If you want to make headway, I'd suggest you try to show clearly which account or accounts is not Jvolkblum and request their unblock on the grounds that they aren't banned.
That said, I'm very concerned by what appears to be ongoing misbehavior related to New Rochelle articles. I decided to look at some of the recent dust-ups between you and Orlady over New Rochelle content, and found the deletion discussion on Commons for the train station interior and, later, the Glen Island Park revisions. What I discovered was that:
This last is what's really alarming about this whole affair. What's the point of having lengthy, detailed articles about New Rochelle—about any topic—if they're crammed with misinformation and misleading citations, and plagiarized from other works into the bargain? I've had previous experience on Wikipedia where someone came in and wanted to level an extensive series of obscure articles to the ground, and I think the only way to defend yourself in that situation is to be brutally honest in assessing the articles you're trying to protect. Source 'em to the nines. Chop out and rewrite anything close to copyvio. That's the only way to save them when people take an interest in deletion. And right now, this is not happening. Maybe I'm reading with a jaundiced eye, but this is how your recent exchanges with Orlady sound, in condensed form:
I can pretty much guarantee you that "Orlady hates New Rochelle" and "Removing misinformation makes these articles short and useless" is not going to trump WP:V and WP:COPYVIO in the court of Wikipedian opinion.
I think you're a good guy, and if there really is a systematic problem where people can't make *good* contributions to New Rochelle–related articles, I want to help fix it. But the only way to make progress on that is to acknowledge that the things I've found in my investigation above are malfeasance, and that the people who are doing that should not be allowed to edit Wikipedia. If there's anything you want to send me off-Wiki to clarify your position, please do. Because right now, I'm seeing a valuable contributor run his reputation into the gutter for reasons that are not, frankly, clear to me, and I'd like to find a solution that's better for you and for Wikipedia. Choess ( talk) 02:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
# 15:28 . . Wknight94 (talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Beechmont (New Rochelle)" (G8: Page dependent on a deleted or nonexistent page) # (Deletion log); 15:28 . . Wknight94 (talk | contribs) deleted "Beechmont (New Rochelle)" (G5: Creation by a banned user in violation of ban: Yet another Jvolkblum battleground)
Can you get me the NRHP nomination form for the Merrill Lock No. 6 (#80003410), in Beaver County, Pennsylvania? I've never figured out where I can get nomination forms online, except for the few that Google finds. Nyttend ( talk) 01:13, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Doncram,
I don't know why, but i looked at my user contributions the past month instead of my watchlist, therefore, i missed your reply. I would probably have contacted you the day of your reply or a day later, and now a few weeks have past. It was pure coincidence. I haven't done anything with Wikipedia the last month. I see you are pretty active.
Despite the lack of activity, there still is a group of people for the historical atlas. The most important interraction is not visible for the public on the project page, because we use email. I think it is better to use the project talk page. But the benefit of email is that social bonding is easier. Present situation is that we are with 3 or 4 people. I was thinking about making some initial maps, but i lack severely in money and need to take care of my income first. A programmer, Tibor, is busy in private life, but he will look at the programming part of making the historical atlas. We got email contact with an Australian director from the university of Sydney, who is in charge of a project which includes making maps for historical atlases. He got a program that we will use. Tibor will look at that when he got time. There is also another member, but i don't know if he is still active.
I will look at the links you provided.
Bye,
Daanschr ( talk) 08:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your words of encouragement, it is much appreciated!!! So I'm not in a vacuum after all ;) I already have more on my plate than a lifetime's worth of work-alas, we live in such a large state, but I will keep the task force in mind if the offer still applies in the future. Again, thank you very kindly for the assistance, both in morale-boosting and resource-getting. Marcia Wright ( talk) 06:03, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
You have left a request for a photo of the Academy of Music in Philadelphia, PA. Unfortunately, the Academy is undergoing extensive restoration work, and the front facade is covered with scaffolding and the windows are covered with plywood. I have uploaded the photo at Wikimedia Commons, but the result is not satisfactory to me, and should not be used, in my opinion. -- DThomsen8 ( talk) 14:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
If the infobox is intended for areas that are formally on the IUCN list there would be far fewer valid cases where the infobox could be used. I don't think thats what you meant to say. There was no mention in the original template documentation that stated the requirement that it be used only for areas that are on the list or might qualify. If the IUCN field is not specified then I don't see the harm. Many areas that are considered protected such as Managed Resource Protected Areas are heavily exploited for natural resources. Habitat/Species Management Areas such as wildlife refuges in the US are highly modified and are primarily supported and exploited by hunters. I'm sure you are aware of this and I don't mean to be pedantic. My point is that there are few truly protected area. Even national parks are exploited by tourists and these visitors are considered consumers by the National Park service.
So I guess what I'm trying to say (forgive the rant) is that maybe there should be more over site on how the IUCN classifications are applied. I'm also thinking someone should consider the possibility of having one infobox for IUCN area, World Heritage Site areas and NRHP sites. In my travels through articles that use the Infobox Protected area template I have noticed a number of occasions when there were two of these boxes on the same page.
There is story that applies to this I think. "Years ago when I was visiting Yosemite and I stopped at at a pull off on Tioga Pass Road. There were a number of people there including a ranger. I overheard one of the tourists ask the ranger 'Who is taking care of all the squirrels.'" I don't think we should worry too much about what the squirrels are doing. Somehow it all works out. Don't take any of this too seriously. -- droll [chat] 22:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Per your message above, I have indeed deleted Beechmont (New Rochelle). It was created and edited by at least six different Jvolkblum socks. And you were about to get a fight from another who commented on the talk page not wanting it to be merged. So, now you are free of the banned user and you can merge at your leisure. You're welcome. (BTW, interesting how all of his pages have suddenly lit up on my watchlist all at the same time after all being 100% quiet for so many days. Again, it's almost as though there were only one person..........) — Wknight94 ( talk) 23:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I've purposely avoided all of the Jvolkblum/New Rochelle debates, as I've got enough RL aggravation. However: it is an established fact that Jvolkblum has disrupted the project and is banned, from what I see, for sound reasons. I've blocked a fair number of sincere people who want to contribute to the project but can't manage to work within the rules. I don't do that lightly, but they need to be removed from the project for the sake of the project. How useful is it to have a nice set of New Rochelle articles of unverifiable or worthless integrity? You do excellent work, and I value you and your contributions highly, so it pains me to see you squandering your credibility in this manner and indulging in complaints about everyone who opposes you. This is a consensus-driven project, and consensus is firmly against you. Acroterion (talk) 01:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello, Doncram.
I think your obvious devotion deserves a clear, final warning before sanctions are applied. At this time, your obsession with defending hypothetical victims of errors in misidentifying socks of a highly destructive vandal (none of which, I should point out, have ever been considered seriously as even possible errors) has begun to severely affect your own reputation and the community's patience towards you.
You have been told, unequivocally, on three AN threads (and a request for arbitration) that you are (a) barking up the wrong tree, (b) doing so disruptively, and (c) exhausting the community's patience by insisting on continuing your crusade. To make things perfectly clear, none of those users will be unblocked at your request. Ever. It will not happen. There was no misconduct by editors or administrators. Orlady is doing a stellar, difficult job of tracking down that vandal, and has the full support of the community.
You need to stop that crusade now, and for good. Do not further argue the topic— in the extremely unlikely case that one of those blocked accounts happened to have genuinely been a collateral damage, they can request being unblocked and argue their case. Doing so yourself cannot result in an unblock, and harms you.
I very much expect that if this finds itself on a noticeboard again with your name associated, you're likely to end up being blocked yourself; you narrowly escaped that very fate on the latest thread.
Take care, — Coren (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram: I don't know if you think you're some sort of civil rights crusader here, or if you're trying to fight some sort of big injustice, but you have been going over and over and over and OVER with this crusade. It's getting really tiresome. I could say more here -- a lot more -- but I'm too angry to really articulate it. You are wasting a lot of people's time going off on this stupid crusade, and meanwhile, your articles are suffering.
As an example: When I checked out Hill to Hill Bridge, a new article, I found that Bethlehem Waterworks was linked to it. It's a National Historic Landmark, and when I read the article and noticed how short it was, I knew it was one of yours. Here's one of the pearls of wisdom from it: "(It) is a site significant for its age." That doesn't give the reader any context. Doing just a little bit of research -- just reading the PDF online -- would have produced some more interesting facts. It was the first municipal pumping system that provided drinking and washing water anywhere in the American colonies. The Moravians who founded Bethlehem, Pennsylvania in 1741 had a village of several hundred people in 1750, and since they were spending so much time and effort hauling water up from the creek, they contracted with a local carpenter/millwright to build a water works. It was an ingenious system inspired by European technology. Yet the reader of the Wikipedia article on this topic wouldn't realize this -- all they'd know is that it's a site historic for its age, and it's on the banks of a creek.
I guess I'm seeing two different problems here: First, you're spending a lot of time advocating on behalf of a banned user who has been known to willfully damage the encyclopedia by inserting false, misleading, and unreferenced content. Despite everyone's attempts to convince you that there's a reason for the ban, and that the banned user(s) should appeal for themselves to resolve the ban, you keep pressing on with this crusade. Despite everyone's attempts to convince you to let the matter drop, you keep on railing against the administrators involved. The second major problem, which is unrelated, is that you've been creating a lot of short stubby NRHP articles that have no context and don't provide any useful information for the reader. "The houses are, indisputably, houses." is NOT educational. I don't know how many two-sentence stubs you've created that don't have context, but I can only guess at how many of those articles someone else is going to have to come back and clean up. I really think you should take on that duty yourself and produce at least a modicum of information before you press the "Save Page" button. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
It's cool. Only thing needed doing was tweak the links to Commons, which was easy. I remember when I created the stubs, thinking how odd it was that two identically named listings were so close [1]. And not the same person, AFAIK. Though the Townsend Building in Lake Butler is "related" to the house there. Cheers! :) -- Ebyabe ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I saw your comment on Nytend's talk page about the above. I changed a couple of Chester County names today to reflect the post office name rather than the township name. Many of these appear to be in township MPSs which is fine but I think a PO name is preferable. One had several local places listed but I went with the one the church itself uses {Wayne, PA]) Best wishes. clariosophic ( talk) 20:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I am puzzled. Why am I unable to find this here, here and why is it a redirect.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Don, I saw on dm's talk page that you are interested in Snyder-Middleswarth National Natural Landmark in Pennsylvania. Snyder-Middleswarth Natural Area exists as an article (the name is what the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources calls it now - it used to be a state park). I made the first red link above into a redirect. There are some sources hidden in the article as comments, and I have some print sources too. If I could ever find out when it stopped being a state park, I think it could be a FA. I also have been there and several times and have some photos to upload to Commons. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 12:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to give you a simple "thanks" in case you weren't watching the discussion from Killiondude's discussion page - SoSaysChappy ( talk) 13:39, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram, you have been persistent in accusing me of being a bully, both before and during my ongoing RfA. In my interactions with you, I try hard to focus on the subject matter and not the person, but since you have insisted on personalizing the situation, I think I need to respond in kind. I believe that you are the one who is truly a bully, and you are labeling me as a bully primarily because I have refused to back down in the face of your bullying. I don't know whether you have behaved similarly with others (I hope not), but I'd like you to examine your interactions with me so you can recognize your bullying behavior and refrain from this behavior in the future. Some of your comments at Talk:National Register of Historic Places featured properties and districts are almost a textbook example of bullying. If you review that page, you will see that I started the discussion by posting a straightforward query on the talk page, commenting that I did not see encyclopedic value in the article and asking "What notability am I overlooking?" That was an invitation to provide your reasoning, not an attack. You responded quickly (but did not answer the question about notability), saying: "Whether or not it is a great wikipedia article yet, it's not hurting anyone or anything, either. I hope you will please not make a stink about this." A few hours later, after my response to you, you responded back to me in a statement that I consider to have been belligerent. Here it is, in part:
I see that as the language of a bully, inciting an aggressive response by accusing the other party of inciting aggression, and concluding by delivering a message that can be distilled to "butt out of my turf!" In my response, I interpreted your comments about lack of coverage for the topic as "acknowledg[ing] that this topic currently lacks notability" (because your words had reflected language in the Notability guidelines, I assumed you were familiar with the guidelines, although you essentially denied this later on). Also, I said "I was hoping that you would agree to move this page outside of article space," but that it could be moved into article space in the future if evidence of notability was found. I concluded: "I also don't want to take this to AfD. However, if it's necessary to go through an AfD discussion to reach consensus regarding the application of WP policy to this article, I will reluctantly take the article there." (Note that you, not I, had been the first one to mention the possibility of taking the article to AfD.) Your next statement indicated that (to my surprise) you were not very familiar with Wikipedia policies, and you indicated an unwillingness to participate in WP processes. You said that WP policies "often conflict anyhow and have to be interpreted in long processes that are often hard to fathom," and objected to the possibility of an AfD, saying "Just because you have the power to create an issue and to force me and others to consider it, doesn't mean you are compelled to use it." In the schoolyard context, this was like the bully saying: "Keep this between you and me, here in the schoolyard; don't call in the school authorities." I responded with an explanation of my understanding of the notability guideline, the reason why I found the article lacking in notability, and a quotation from WP:NOT that supported my view that it did not belong in article space. I concluded that "there is .... nothing preventing this from being maintained in project space, as a useful resource." Your next comment asked me to "explain reasons." You focused the comment on me, questioning my motives ("reasons for creating an issue here", "why spend your and my time in your attacking this"), and made the statement I cited earlier: "If you don't feel like explaining, and if you feel inexplicably compelled to continue, then go ahead and raise the issue in AfD or wp:Requested moves or requests for arbitration or whatever other forum, and I will respond more fully to point out what I feel to be inaccuracies in your statements, and I will muster arguments for keeping this list-article where it is now." I see that as a bully drawing a line in the sand, or the equivalent of " Go ahead, make my day." Although your comment had been focused on me and my motives, I chose not to respond to that aspect of your comment, but instead responded by enumerating the issues I saw regarding the article. I saw this as a reasonable response to your request to "explain my reasons", and since you said nothing more on the subject (after 10 comments on the talk page in about 29 hours, there was no activity for almost 4 days). I misinterpreted your silence as acquiescence, so I moved the page to project space (what I had proposed earlier and as User:Appraiser had encouraged doing). Apparently, though, you had been watching and waiting for me to do that (that was my crossing of that metaphorical line in the sand), and you reverted my page move 35 minutes after I made it. After that behavior, I truly believed (and I still believe) that you had "dared" me to take the article to AfD.
This is hardly the only instance in which your communications to me have had a strong flavor of "Get out of my space and stay out, or else!" That is the classic behavior of a bully. I can only conclude that it is because I refused to back down in the face of your bullying that you have reacted by attaching the "bully" label to me. -- Orlady ( talk) 16:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)On the general subject of interpersonal behavior, I am disappointed to find evidence that you have been canvassing to encourage others to change their !votes on my RfA. How many other users have you contacted in this fashion? And how many did you alert to the RfA, or like this? -- Orlady ( talk) 01:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I know you're interested in CNY stuff. I just uploaded a bunch of road pics for Mitchazenia here [ [3]], if you feel like taking a look. Note the snow in the last one, taken on April 5. I bet it's nicer where you are. Lvklock ( talk) 03:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to thank you truly for your recent additions to your comments at Siena College. I had not taken offence to anything you had said before, but do appreciate the clarification of your position on my views. It seems a few editors take issue with the way I present my facts and dont care if my facts are true or not, they just assume they are not. Though thanks to your kind words I may just revive Camelbinky since you have proven that I do have friends around here. Again- thank you. Camelbinky ( talk) 07:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
What was this edit for? I stumbled upon the article (I found that its actually relatively close to where I live), and when I perused the article history I noticed that edit. Just curious. Thanks, Killiondude ( talk) 07:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I really don't understand why you want to pick a fight with Orlady on my talk page. You've already done this at WP:AN/I, WP:RFAR, WP:RFA, and whatever featured article/featured list discussions where you've clashed with her. I guess you're going to go ahead and snipe on my talk page since it's your custom. I was just sort of testing the waters as far as making Hennepin County a featured list when I asked Orlady her opinion. Since you and Orlady are just going to butt heads together, on a list where I've invested the huge majority of effort, I'm not even sure I want to bother with the process of seeking featured list status. It would be just another series of pointless arguments. And to think I've driven all over Hennepin County to take photos, all the way from Hassan Township in the north to Rockford in the west, and even snowshoed across Lake Minnetonka in the winter so I could get to Crane Island. No, let's just go ahead and shoot down the process -- and shoot down the list in the first place -- so you can start yet another battle. Now I know why I've lost faith in WP:NRHP and in my editing of Wikipedia in general. And this shouldn't even be my fiasco to begin with. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for starting this article! I've added quite a bit and an old photo, Ive found it fun working on it, even though it probably wont ever get very big. If you can do one of those DYK's for it, I think that would be great, but I've never done anything like that before so am hesitant to nominate it myself. I'm hoping Wadester can help out and take a current photo from roughly the same spot and angle as the 1890 photo so we can have a good contrast between 1890 and today. I came across something, but the website wasnt all that reliable that the house underwent renovations in the 1800's that made it more in the Federal-style, did you come across any comments like that in the NRHP site? I havent been able to verify the statement anywhere other than one other source that says the house was "modified during the Federal period" which I dont know is the same as putting in Federal-style architecture or just expanding the footprint of the building during a specific historical era called the "Federal period". Camelbinky ( talk) 22:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, I'm glad you like it, its the first NRHP article I've worked on, that I know of at least. Wadester agreed to take a photo if time allows, it may be awhile though, but its not like the article is in any time-crunch anyways. I'm thinking the three of us could be a great team to go through pretty quickly all the NRHP redlinks in the Capital District (probably constrained at first on how far Wadester is willing to drive). I'll start looking over the footnote link and learning about the special quirks relating to NRHP articles, but if you want to make as many of those redlinks into stubs with the basic NRHP templates and standard info, I can probably churn out history sections for them fast enough to keep up and then if Wadester wants to he could at his leisure take current photos of them. I remember there was another editor in the CD wikiproject who had listed that he had a good collection of photos of NRHP sites in the Capital District..perhaps contacting that user would be of help, as many people as we can get would speed things along. Camelbinky ( talk) 04:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I created this stub a while ago. Recently a revision was done that I believe is Copyvio and a problem as promotional info. To be honest, I'm not terribly interested in policing this kind of stuff. I'm not sure whether reverting the edit is the appropriate action, and if it is whether I'm supposed to give some kind of waarning first. I thought of asking Daniel Case, as an admin I'm familiar with, but he's on vacation. Should I take it to a different Admin, or what? Lvklock ( talk) 01:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Please pardon my copying the following section from above; I just realised that you might not have noticed my comments, as I placed them in the middle of the page.
I see that the WP:NRHP section with how-to-get-forms for each state has nothing on Ohio. I'd appreciate having access to Ohio forms for when I go home; do you know where those can be obtained? I know that I can get them through the Ohio Historic Preservation Office, but I don't feel like paying for them (see the bottom of this page, their profile of the Plaza Apartments, for details), so I'd appreciate it if you could find if they're hosted anywhere for free, like the Pennsylvania ones that you showed me. I'm not going to be home for a month, so please don't think that this is some sort of urgent request :-) In the meantime, I'll continue using the Pennsylvania ones; I hope to get out to the Old Homestead in Lawrence County this week, and the materials on its form will be quite helpful. Nyttend ( talk) 04:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello, this message is being sent to you since you are a member of the Accountancy task force. This is just a heads-up that the task force has been expanded with new features and its main page modified. Now that the task force has assessed over 800 articles in its scope, a breakdown can be seen of the quality of articles. A new userbox can be added to your page, and if you know of a editor contributing to accounting articles, a welcoming template can be used to invite the editor to join the task force. If you haven't already, consider watchlisting the main discussion page. There is currently a discussion about adding a template to some main accounting topics that would benefit from input by other editors. Feel free to leave feedback on the discussion page for further improving these new features. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 ( talk) 07:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
(This is, confusingly, a copy of my notice plus Kaldari's response at User talk:Kaldari#stop canvassing. Kaldari's apparent canvassing has been discussed now at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#inappropriate canvassing where Kaldari concedes the appearance of vote-stacking by his edits. The possibility that Kaldari further covered something up is further discussed at its subsection "further, coverup?".
I am going to collapsing the discussion that appeared here, and I suggest further comments should be at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#inappropriate canvassing and possibly at User talk:Kaldari, where there is at least one other comment already. doncram ( talk) 21:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I noticed your second announcement of an ongoing RfA at Wikiproject Tennessee, which I think verges on inappropriate canvassing. I see you have since posted 5 announcements at selected individual Talk pages. Stop it. doncram ( talk) 19:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I added the photo of the Quackenbush House there. Also I noticed that the Albany Academy link is to the academy itself and there is no article on the original building itself, which is what is on the list. Should the building itself have an article or do you think the academy article is enough? The original building is (at least for now) the offices for the Albany City School District and was where Joseph Henry conducted his experiments that led to the discovery of electro-magnetism/self induction (among other things never patented and led to the invention of things such as the telegraph). Camelbinky ( talk) 06:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
(section retitled from "Thanks for your support" by Doncram, so i can link to this from elsewhere)
Hello,
Just wanted to say thanks for your message. Am working hard to get the Oyster Bay content in order. Interesting issue with Fleet's Hall. This is for a building that once existed in the center of Oyster Bay, but which is now demolished. Apparently people feel it's not notable. I strongly disagree. Thankfully, most of my other articles are for historic buildings that are still intact. Any help you can provide dealing with these pesky editors who don't understand historic buildings would be helpful.
Inoysterbay ( talk) 23:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Regarding your move of Jefferson College (Mississippi).. there is no other Jefferson College in Mississippi. There's a 2 year Jefferson College in Missouri, but there are no others in Mississippi. Therefore, you should undo the move. - ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 22:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the good wishes on my RfA, Doncram. I also hope for the best -- and I'm still afraid of letting my fingers get too close to the links that say "block" and "delete." -- Orlady ( talk) 03:26, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I apologize, I am back in Chicago and realize that the sign I took a picture of for Allentown Historic District (Buffalo, New York) is not within the designated Historic District.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I have started using OpenStreetMap, which was mentioned in signposts a week and a half ago. I have produced about a half dozen maps including those used in Delaware Avenue Historic District, Allentown Historic District (Buffalo, New York), Entranceway at Main Street at Roycroft Boulevard, and Entranceways at Main Street at Lamarck Drive and Smallwood Drive. Have you tried it? I just use Microsoft Paint to add lines to the maps it yields.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Nice stub for one of the UNESCO WHS's that didn't have one. Did you just copy an infobox from another article and fill the stuff in from the WHS website? Lvklock ( talk) 19:25, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement. I needed it after getting into my first dispute over at Ranchos of California where I am working on eventually having an entry for every (about 800) rancho in California. I am still finding my way around - I still haven't figured simple things like where to reply to a message on my talk page. Emargie ( talk) 04:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Unless I am missing something, aren't these all redundant considering they are listed in a parent list? For example, do we need National Register of Historic Places listings in Leflore County, Mississippi when it's already in National Register of Historic Places listings in Mississippi? - ℅ ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 00:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Doncram - good to see a few new geo-stubs for places in Mississippi. Just a quick heads-up that it'll save some work further down the line if you could mark any new ones you make with {{ Mississippi-geo-stub}} rather than just {{ geo-stub}}. All countries and lots of subnational regions (including all US states) have their own geo-stubs, all in the form StateName-geo-stub. Cheers, and keep up the good work! :) Grutness... wha? 00:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
NP. Glad to help. Any time. Lvklock ( talk) 01:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Quick correction: I did not block Acepharma ( talk · contribs), a checkuser did - along with several other sock accounts. It was a bit troubling to see that you had already found this user, and even mentioned a connection to Jvolkblum. I wouldn't have needed to delete all the sock's articles if you had raised your suspicion before it went wild creating them all. But if you prefer it this way, that's fine too. Wknight94 talk 20:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I dont want to confront or start another argument with Hippo43 but can you take a look at the info I put into Loudonville that Hippo keeps removing. It is my personal opinion that he is removing the info because it may make him "look bad" in that it is a legitimate newspaper source that mentions that some people use Loudonville PO boxes as their addresses even if they live outside the mailing area just because it makes their business seem "higher class" and legitimizes what some of us said at Siena College that PERHAPS the college wanted to promote the name L. for its own benefit. But anyways, I just wanted a second opinion, if you think the info I put in really doesnt belong then I'll go along, but if you dont think so I still dont know what to do because I'm not going to get into another convo with that guy! I'll ask an admin to look at it too because this isnt the first time since the Siena College ruckus that Hippo has removed info I've put into an article claiming "the info isnt relevant". Camelbinky ( talk) 00:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
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The Half Barnstar | |
We may not agree on everything, but your insistence on standing up for what is important to you, and your refusal to accept mediocrity, is one of the things that makes Wikipedia better (and helped make PhotoCatBot a better bot!) For your spirited argument on photo requests and WikiProject NRHP, I award you the Left Half of the Half Barnstar. :-) Tim Pierce ( talk) 04:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC) |
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The Half Barnstar | |
I award you, doncram, the right half of this barnstar for your excellent combined efforts with Camelbinky for work on Capital District-related articles as of late. Keep up the good work. ~ ωαdεstεr16 «talk stalk» 06:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC) |
Of course you're right that DAB should be orphans, I was sleepy, sorry for the bother. Kevin Rector ( talk) 16:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Do I understand rightly that I don't have to pay for copies of nomination forms requested from http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/about.htm#contactus? I just sent an email to request three forms, but I can't remember if a fee will be required. Nyttend ( talk) 13:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
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The WikiProject Barnstar | |
Your efforts at WP:NRHP and WP:HSITES have been heroic. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 14:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC) |
Template:Church disambig has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. —
Remember the dot (
talk)
01:29, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. That was very helpful; never knew you could do that. ~ ωαdεstεr16 «talk stalk» 13:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Have you checked out some of the info I put in to expand Albany Union Station? I dont know if the deadline has expired on putting a DYK on that article or if anything in it really merits a DYK but I just thought you might want to consider it. I've never done a DYK so I'm not so sure about what the criteria is. Camelbinky ( talk) 23:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Don ... I'm working my way through North Carolina a county at a time. I know the number of properties in each county because I have a spreadsheet with all of the NC listings. Some of the counts in the table may be off by 1 or 2, but they should be pretty accurate. -- sanfranman59 ( talk) 07:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
You've earned a lot of them! dm ( talk) 18:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
FYI this new NRHP article: Grand Gulf Military State Park (Mississippi). Please help flesh it out if you know of anything worth adding. Also, the coordinates.. they need adjusting. I initially used the coordinates from National Register of Historic Places listings in Claiborne County, Mississippi but that didn't put GGMSP anywhere near the Mississippi River or anywhere in Claiborne County on the location image map in the infobox. So I tried adjusting them myself. I got GGMSP on the river but it's not in Claiborne County. Thanks. - ℅ ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 19:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I just started this stub and added a picture gallery. I can't decide what pic should go in the infobox. Take a look and see what you think. Lvklock ( talk) 22:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Basically what's going on is twofold: (1) Andrew is advocating having some of the images at sizes other than 100px, while I'm saying that it's not necessary and perhaps detracts from the page a little. We both see this as a minor issue. (2) Inclusion of a line in the table as follows:
Site name | Image | Date listed | Location | Proximate Major Street | Summary | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
999 | NRHP Properties in Highland Park |
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Various locations near Woodward Ave., between Tuxedo/Tennyson St. and Mc Nichols Rd. | Woodward 13000 | Highland Park is an enclave within the city of Detroit, centered on Woodward Avenue. The NRHP properties in Highland Park, including the National Historic Landmark Highland Park Ford Plant, are located on or near Woodward. |
I'm strongly opposing this, as this isn't an actual listing, and as Andrew agrees, it's not in Detroit, so I believe that it shouldn't be included in a Detroit-only list. Andrew's response is basically "we shouldn't base this list exclusively on political boundaries; it's an enclave, so it is geographically within Detroit and should count as part of Detroit for the purposes of this list". I've strongly opposed that, since these lists are always done by political boundaries. Nyttend ( talk) 21:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, meeting again. I understand you are working with NHRP-lists. I am about to backread some more talks about this shortly, starting from Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation we know and the talks and their archives. But already before I dive into it, I would suggest you try a holdback on relating pages to NHRP (like Valencia today). The abbreviation itself might be very unknown outside U.S. (I really could not link to it at first, both mentally and e-wise). But more important: a thing being on that list is just a property of the thing. It is not a defining or signifying property. So maybe I might suggest shortly that the abbreviation is used not in these situations. -22:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Sure, I did wonder if the architecture for that one merited a page. Good work andycjp ( talk) 22:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
User:BFDhD recently added an "Idora Park Merry-Go-Round" to the Mahoning County, Ohio list; after searching, I could find it, so I removed it. It was soon restored (along with the removal of the Burt Building, listed last July), with the comment of "Burt isn't YET listed", and BFDhD gave me the reference number for the merry-go-round, #75001482. Plugging this into Elkman, I get a note of "This property may not actually be listed on the National Register - listing code is RN". It is listed on nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com, and the Burt Building (due to being listed just last July) isn't, so I'm wondering if this user is going by that site in good faith. What does "RN" mean, do you know? If you get a chance, could you investigate this a little? Nyttend ( talk) 05:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
PSI thought OHPO had a search function for delisted properties. They do not. Apologies!-- BFDhD ( talk) 02:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Is there some central repository for dates of delistings? All this has made me wonder about the way we reference our delistings that aren't in Recent Listings pages; that's why, for example, when I tablised Iowa, I hid all the delisted properties rather than putting them into tables. I'm going to be leaving a similar comment for Dtbohrer, since s/he does a good deal of work with delistings. Nyttend ( talk) 16:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your contribution to my talk page. To answer your question, I am basing my information on the physical files at the Ohio State Historic Preservation Office (which I visited in person last week, in Columbus, Ohio) as well as the OHPO's Web site devoted to the NR ( http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/ohpo/nr/index.aspx). I will address your other points on the various talk pages you suggested.-- BFDhD ( talk) 19:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
If you happen to run across any Pennsylvania NRHP articles that are needed to support the disambig pages you create, could you let me know? I will probably notice anyways and expand it (like William Montgomery House (Lancaster, Pennsylvania) just now), but I figure it would be faster/less work for you for me to start a good stub ( oxymoron?), rather than a 2 sentence stub. -- D.B. talk• contribs 01:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Do you mean that "Sacred Heart Cathedral and Cathedral School" has been changed now by the Register? I wasn't clear what you meant. Nyttend ( talk) 02:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Why did you move this page to Ames Shovel Shops? It's not the common name. I don't know what possessed you to do such a thing.-- Marcbela ( talk) 12:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks buddy I appreciate you expanding that. I created some quick stubs the other day to make Belarus-struct-stub viable. I only started articles I thought were notable. Dr. Blofeld White cat 12:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
... for resolving the subpage name issue. Personally, I probably would have gone for [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation/Every thought that has ever passed through the mind of User:Proofreader77 relating to a particular disambiguation page, including poetic renditions thereof, transcribed directly without any intervening editing or reflection, and with copious subheadings]], but your title will work, too. :-)
What is Wikipedia's policy on harassment? I feel that I am being unnecessarily targeted by a particular user (whose name I will not divulge here, but you work with him often) to cite my sources for just about every sentence I write or have written. He is inconsistent with practicing what he preaches (pestering me to add citations, yet claiming that his work is sufficient in itself without sourced information), I find his behavior to be borderline badgering (egging me on with snide passive-aggressive comments in the edit summaries, posting in a rude tone on my page), and I don't know what to do to make it stop. I'm not sure, but I get the feeling that he doesn't like me moving in on his perceived "territory," but that would just be silly. There is no "territory" here. I simply know a lot about a certain topic and would like to contribute that knowledge to Wikipedia. I'm worried that he might be trying to get me to leave Wikipedia altogether, but I believe that my contributions are really helpful and I further believe that Wikipedia's content should be as factual as possible. (At the very least, as consistent as possible: either citations are needed for all things, and when absent they should all be called out as "citation needed" until one is provided, or we don't need citations at all, which I think is anti-Wikipedia.) I would be fine with the communication with this user if he would just stop the passive aggression and leave the disparaging tone out of things, especially the edit summaries. I think, by all means, make edits and add citation needed where necessary, but this isn't a battle, and I don't want to engage in any sort of dispute. I just want to edit, correct where necessary, contribute what I can and move forward. What do you think I should do? I appreciate your comments and the even-handed approach I've observed you to have regarding just about everything. Thanks!-- BFDhD ( talk) 15:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Formally request you refrain from further modification of headings which are specifically designed to allow a quick summary of the issues and its use as a reference page (in several contexts).
I have read your concerns. I have responded to your concerns. I am grateful for your attention to this complex matter, but let us not spin our wheels over clear disagreements.
I do not expect much further discussion there. What it provides is a reference which allows specific concerns to be addressed more concisely, with reference to the longer "outline" of the context.
Please excuse abrupt tone. Attempting to be short, if not sweet. :) Cheers. -- Proofreader77 ( talk) 20:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
This is another one on my watchlist that has recent edits that are copypasted from elsewhere ( http://www.trinitychurchelmira.org/). You are much clearer on copyvio/plagiarism stuff than I am. Take a look? Lvklock ( talk) 03:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
just forwarding one more link to an article (entitled 'Then & Now: Glen Island') from a local website with reader comments relevant to wikipedia (<blacklisted site removed>).
--
168.166.46.219 (
talk)
04:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Sure, I'd work on the California task force. Rosiestep ( talk) 02:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
When you removed the G5 speedy-deletion templates from these articles, you stated (or at least implied) that you would be taking responsibility for their contents, not merely shielding the unwelcome (and suspect) work of a banned contributor. I realize that only a couple of days have passed, but if you have not been able to get down to the task of thoroughly researching these articles and verifying them, I suggest that it is time for you to either move them to your user space (so you can work on them later) or expect an AfD process to begin. -- Orlady ( talk) 16:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Wikipedia talk:LAHCM ( | project page | history | links | watch | logs) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. MBisanz talk 09:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Billwhittaker recently put together an article for the Bertrand Site in Washington County, Nebraska under the name of Steamboat Bertrand, along with several pictures. Which picture from the article do you think is best suited to the county list? I've put the picture of the model on the list for now, but I wonder if the picture of the artifacts might be better. Nyttend ( talk) 15:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Is "declared" the official NHL term, or is it just the one that's preferred by WP:NRHP? Seeing your edit to the Wyoming list today reminded me of the question, which had occasionally popped into my head for quite a while now. Nyttend ( talk) 16:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I opened an Unban proposal, which also includes a topic ban request on User:Orlady, at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Proposal for unban, apology, amnesty for Jvolkblum and related others, and topic ban for Orlady. This may reduce my availability to address other matters. doncram ( talk) 00:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I meant to reply earlier to your kind invitation to participate in WikiProject Historic Sites. I seem to find myself up to my ears in reviewing, research, and writing, and I must regretfully decline. I wish you luck. Finetooth ( talk) 15:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I am sooooo happy to be for once roughly on the same side as you instead of being polarized opposition! Per your request that previous arguments be restated for the benefit of newcomers to the discussion I have added a new section to the argument on my personal opinions, as the person who kinda started all this. (Sorry about that). My goal is not to remove the name Loudonville and replace it with Newtonville. Simply to state that there is some wiggle room or unclear relationship between whether the college is in Newtonville or not, I think it is important for the article of Newtonville, New York to mention Siena College but that keeps getting an "undo" put on it due to the dispute here. Without compromise here the Newtonville article loses one of its most important aspects of why it should even exist. Camelbinky ( talk) 21:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I liked the joke about the bar in the Pinebush. That was really good. Tell you what- next time you find yourself in an argument on an article let me in on it and I will start breaking chairs over people's heads! Camelbinky ( talk) 06:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC) Have you gone and read the comments made by some other people on hippo's talk page? This really seems like a common thing to happen with him, he's been blocked for editing warring before, others have accused him of edit warring many times without taking things to the talk page to explain why he reverted in the first place and to continue to do it after a discussion begins and is ongoing. To continually insist the article remains HIS way while a discussion is ongoing and no concensus has been reached seems arrogant and against wiki civility if not policy. Contact them if you think it might help. I have said to hippo before, and I dont care if an admin warns me on it in the future, I really think what hippo likes to do is clearly trolling, he uses wikipolicy as a shield but the essays out there on trolls say they often do that, that having policy on their side isnt a defense. For the longest time we had a concensus of 5-1 on a reasonable compromise, it should have stayed that way. Now others have gotten fed up and left the argument. I really think you should bring this to the next level of whatever. I went and got a second opinion (daniel case), and that wasnt enough for a resolution, daniel case went and put out a request for comment, that didnt do any good. I support you and am with you the whole way all the way to the end, just lead the way and keep me informed what you need me to do as to where this is going and everything. Camelbinky ( talk) 02:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, you made my nice neat list look sloppy and abandoned it! :) Lvklock ( talk) 00:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Just as a reminder, you're at 3RR on Siena College. I know both sides are discussing this on the talk page (I'm also leaving a warning on the other reverter's page), but please don't edit war, even while talking it over. Good luck on the talk page. Dayewalker ( talk) 01:14, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Hey Doncram,
I am not exactly sure if we have talked before but somehow your talkpage pops up on my watchlist in connection with recent controversies. If we have not met before: "Hello there, nice to meet you!"
There is a lot of stuff going on on Wikipedia that does not head in the right general direction in my humble opinion. It seems that you are under the "suspicion" of being a suckpuppet, meatpuppet or contributor of worthless stubs. In other words, you are a Wiki-terrorist of some sort and every single one of your steps is monitored. The vultures are waiting for you to make a mistake in referencing information in an article. You are under the constant risk of being banned ... just because. Take the articles about New Rochelle referred to above, for example. Two of the three mentioned are stubs and one looks quite good to me. I did not check them in detail but the two stubs, again in my humble opinion only, should have a right to exist on Wikipedia. I have produced stubs like this myself and some topics do not have enough to write about (for now) but they still have a right to exist on Wikipedia and are helpful, at least in my understanding of the Wikipedia project. I have seen stubs created by the person accusing you (O), that were of the same grade or lower and they are still part of the encyclopedia. Stubs are something other editors can add to. Babies are not born fully grown either ...
The rating system here includes stubs and that is great. No editor, apprentice admin or admin, in my opinion, should be allowed to criticize or attempt to delete an article just because it is short and incomplete. The last definition of a stub that I use to assess articles is this one: A stub class article "provides very little meaningful content; may be little more than a dictionary definition". (This is the definition taken from the Wikiproject Tennessee assessment page) That definition would cover every very short article that does not include information that is proven incorrect. I am opposed to develop articles in the user space in most cases, there might be instances where it is appropriate but this is not and should not be a general rule to adhere to and no one should be required to do so. Wikipedia claims that it can be edited by anyone, but that is only possible if the article develops in the open, where everyone has access to it. You can do it in the user space, if you want, but you don't have to. In general, secrecy about things related to Wikipedia should be forbidden.
If stub articles are unwanted, due to community consensus, the rating system should be changed to "perfect" (the lowest grade), "even more perfect", "apprentice admin approved perfect" and "admin approved perfect" (the highest grade, which can only be reached if you have good contacts to people in admin positions to grant that status). Please excuse my sarcasm here. But it is not only about the stubs, it is how (some) people treat other editors here, but still find supporting votes when they seek or are suggested for adminship. I have read your complaint about O and her paranoid behavior when it is about sockpuppets. Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate O's contributions and they are of value for the Wikipedia project, as well are yours. But there seem to be personal issues that get mingled up with Wikipedia. At any company you would get fired if you mix your personal deficiencies with job related tasks and that has a negative impact. Not here. I wonder why?
Maybe, maybe, Wikipedia is a psychological experiment. To see how Orwell's Animal Farm works out with real people. An experiment to find out how well it works if a group of people, essentially working on the same project, is given the opportunity to organize itself and make their own rules to govern itself. If I had to make a judgement about this question today, with the limited perspective I have of Wikipedia ... I would say, the experiment is a failure. The pigs are taking over and it is going to get worse. I admire and encourage your persistance to fight the negative and discouraging forces and I appreciate your contributions to improve Wikipedia.
Let me conclude this note with these famous few lines below. So long ago these words were formulated so perfectly, with so much thought, skill and care for the right words by one of the greatest writers of all times. Good old William Shakespeare would not worry about a copyright that might be violated here, I am very sure of that. He would smile in his grave (or where ever he rests in peace) and be proud that what he wrote could not be formulated better by anyone in the in the last 400 years since his work was first published. What if William Shakespeare had been discouraged from writing? A poor place this earth would be ...
“ | To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer |
” |
— - WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE (from Hamlet, 1603) |
Take care and happy editing, doxTxob \ talk 05:57, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
For your efforts to "take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them", ... hopefully. doxTxob \ talk 02:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC) |
Hi doncram ... Based on your edits to National Register of Historic Places listings in Los Angeles, you seem to have knowledge of the neighborhoods of LA, would you please the neighborhoods for the 7 listings added to the NRHP this week? I placed 6 of the 7 in South Los Angeles and 1 in Downtown Los Angeles. For future reference, how do you determine which neighborhood a site is in? Thanks. -- sanfranman59 ( talk) 00:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I thought you might be able to help me find info on Washington Park details about Fountain of Time. Might there be any commentary in the Park's National Register of Historic Places application about the vistas of Fountain of Time. FoT is now at FAC and I have a discussant who is looking for answers.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 02:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
For the Chicago Park District MPS
I got an email response with new insttruction: shttp://www.illinoishistory.gov/PS/haargis.htm To use:
Why does your User:Doncram/PR urgents template have a FAC title, which gives you two FAC templates on your user talk page?-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 21:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the FLC had finished successfully. Cool! dm ( talk) 00:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Idaho is finished. Do you think it needs more pictures? If so, you'll have a small selection: there are only 44 pictures for the entire state, and only three counties (Latah, Ada, and Clearwater, with 9, 7, and 3 respectively) have more than 2. Even Bear Lake County, with 92 sites, has just 1 picture. I'm going to check for HABS pictures; I don't know if any of the pictures currently up are HABS, but there have to be a bunch of them available for download. Nyttend ( talk) 14:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Quite some time ago, you added a HABS pic to this article with the caption "Adams Power Plant, with transformer house in left foreground". I recently added some contemporary pics of the building, and I actually think that the long building on the right side of the pic is the transformer house, based on the pics with the nomination form. I just want to make sure that I'm not missing something before I change the caption. Any thoughts? Lvklock ( talk) 11:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I think we've hammered out a good revised Featured List criteria here. If this passes, there will be quite a few FLs (my estimate is somewhere between 50 and 75) that could soon be delisted just because of 3b. With that in mind, I'd like to get comments and opinions from all FLC regulars and everyone else who has participated in the discussion before it's implemented. Thanks, Scorpion 0422 17:38, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
What was determined with the bot tagging? Where is the bot category list? If List of Chicago Landmarks is listed as a top list-article article, why hasn't it or any of the landmarks it enumerates been tagged?-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 02:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
To anyone who follows my Talk page, which maybe is my blog....I've opened a new discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Long-running problem with respect to New Rochelle area articles.
This relates to a perhaps overly complex 4 part proposal that i opened on March 26, which was closed on March 27 and archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive187#Proposal for unban, apology, amnesty for Jvolkblum and related others, and topic ban for Orlady.
I think it is a problem that won't go away, and I hope that good people will be part of the solution. I hope that this new discussion can at least clarify the problem, if not immediately agree upon a solution. doncram ( talk) 03:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I dislike brandishing the specter of sanctions, but community patience with your argumentative insistence is not infinite. It would be wise of you to find some other area of the encyclopedia to occupy yourself with— or at the very least accept that, no matter how well-intentioned, your repeated intervention are neither productive nor welcome. — Coren (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Here, let me force you to make an uncomfortable and unreasonable decision: Either you stop advocating for banned user Jvolkblum ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) and anyone who appears like a sockpuppet editing New Rochelle articles, or you lose me at WP:NRHP and my contributions to that project. One or the other. It's your choice as to which editor you want to keep. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 16:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Since DoxTxob ( talk · contribs) is working on an RFAR, this discussion has become a moot point. I'll let you guys figure out to do with New Rochelle and with WP:NRHP in general. Thanks to the both of you for reminding me just how badly I can fail in an online community. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey doncram,
Are you interested in filing a request for arbitration in this sockpuppet case? In my view this is heading further and further in the wrong direction. Especially the latest ultimatum by User:Elkman to make you chose between keeping him in that NRHP project or continue to support innocent editors who have been banned. I know what my choice would be.
If you are interested in filing the request it would be great if you could do that because all involved parties need to be named and you are much closer to the topic and more involved than I am. You would probably be able to formulate the case better in 500 words.
The key criticism I see her is (1) that User accounts ar banned for no reason except for sharing an IP with a disruptive editor from the past. Another point (2) is user Orlady's paranoia, she is proud to have already investigated an blocked 66 accounts from editing. The next point (2) is that attempts have been made to discuss this matter in a very reasonable and matter-of-fact fashion whis was cut short twice and was closed after a few hours. In my opinion a discussion that had a reasonable chance to be solved in a civilized manner is avoided and a few "investigators" who obviously have nothing else to do with their lives is busy playing the secret Wiki-Police to feel important and powerful. I also critizise (4) that the group of users denies that there is a problem at all.
Do you agree on these key points for the request? Let me know here on your talk page. If you file the request, I will comment on it. If you chose not to file the request yourself, that would also be fine, then I will file it later today or tomorrow. Take care and happy editing, doxTxob \ talk 19:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I have filed a request for arbitration regarding recent bans of user accounts from which no activities could be found that dispupt Wikipedia. The arbitration request can be found here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Block of editors related to sockpuppet Jvolkblum You are mentioned as an involved party and I hope that your opinion there can contribute to solve the issue. Thank you! doxTxob \ talk 22:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Your comments will be more helpful on the arbitration request page found here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Block of editors related to sockpuppet Jvolkblum. Please do not forget to sign your post with 4 tildes "~~~~" at the end of your comment.
Thank you for making a statement in an Arbitration application on requests for arbitration. We ask all participants and commentators to limit the size of their initial statements to 500 words. Please trim your statement accordingly. If the case is accepted, you will have the opportunity to present more evidence. Neat, concisely presented statements are much more likely to be understood and to influence the decisions of the Arbitrators.
For the Arbitration Committee. KnightLago ( talk) 01:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Since you give me a few things, I'll do likewise:
As far as the research notes — I've always been somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of having them fully visible in the article. You can see that I don't simply go around removing them, but my uncomfortability is the reason that I quickly investigated the issue and added it to the other county list. Could you perhaps comment out these research notes and the list of untableised sites? Again, not a big deal; just a minor concern that definitely doesn't upset me.
[unindent] Thanks for the compliment :-) As far as the new disambiguation notification page: it might be a little while before I do anything with it. I learned about WP:NRIS issues some time before I began using it, simply because I kept forgetting how to get there. I'll try to remember :-) Nyttend ( talk) 00:36, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
All counties are now virtually complete; I'm going through recent listings to get the recent boundary increases, and I'll be adding coords for sites without that I can find. I just made an interesting discovery: were you aware that Montana had two new NHLs in October? The October 10 list shows these sites. I've updated one site's article, but as the other has no article, I didn't write it. Could you also update the NHL list? Nyttend ( talk) 16:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
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02:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey Doncram, please be aware of WP:3RR. By my reckoning you've had 3 reverts in the last 16 hours. It's probably not worth getting blocked over this, or getting the page protected again. -- hippo43 ( talk) 08:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad I got to patch things up with you before retiring from wikipedia. Good luck and thank you for all you taught me, though I was thick-headed and didnt always listen the first time. Give 'em hell. Camelbinky ( talk) 00:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I chose red -> big red apple. Anyway, take a look, especially at the nyc landmark reference, that's the way every reference doc should look. dm ( talk) 04:35, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
At first I thought you meant that an IOOF Hall was up for Good Article :-) Sorry, I'll not be able to do much for the next little while: I have lots of picture work to do (non-NRHP stuff from my spring break trip that yielded lots of Denver NRHP pictures), and schoolwork demands a little time, too :-) I'll get to it when I have time. Nyttend ( talk) 17:59, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I retire from this. You are one of the good guys. Keep going to fight the slings and arrows, it is important. I wish you luck. Take care, doxTxob \ talk 03:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
– Drilnoth ( T • C) 22:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Rodiggidy, Sonkinator, and/or others: I've defended persons that I think were truly treated badly, whether the original Person A or others caught up in sockpuppet accusations since. I don't really much care whether this is all one person or several; you one or all have been treated badly. You've seen, or should have seen by now, my comments in two wp:an discussions and in a request for arbitration. But, if you are creating new accounts or IP-editing, you're not helping.
What you need to do, is to participate in an Unban request and get one account to edit from. The recent wp:an discussions and an arbitration case request did not result in an immediate unban, but the way is open to request one, and to start over. Please contact me via email if you would like my assistance. But if you are more interested in playing a game of provoking W and O, then you will gradually have me joining the opposition to you, despite that putting me in the company of persons who I do think behaved badly. doncram ( talk) 01:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Have you checked to make sure that addresses, communities, listing dates, names, etc. for Oregon are in accord with the NRIS? If I remember right, I read somewhere that the listings had been changed around a lot to favour the Oregon Register's version of this data, at the expense of the National Register. Nyttend ( talk) 01:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram,
I started looking at this a few days ago, after seeing the flurry of activity on AN/RFAR. Frankly, I was puzzled—I know I remember you as a prolific and productive contributor to NRHP articles, and so I didn't understand why you were so vociferous in defending what looked like a fairly serious cluster of sockpuppetry and misbehavior. If I understand the hints you've been dropping correctly, you're saying that some of the accounts now lumped into the "Jvolkblum" cluster of sockpuppets are actually associated with a different person, with a legitimate interest in improving New Rochelle, who's unfairly being blocked due to supposed editing similarities with Jvolkblum. If this is a correct assessment, I'd say that part of the problem is that you've been approaching the case the wrong way, arguing for an "unban". Bans apply to people; in this case, the person behind the Jvolkblum account. If you want to make headway, I'd suggest you try to show clearly which account or accounts is not Jvolkblum and request their unblock on the grounds that they aren't banned.
That said, I'm very concerned by what appears to be ongoing misbehavior related to New Rochelle articles. I decided to look at some of the recent dust-ups between you and Orlady over New Rochelle content, and found the deletion discussion on Commons for the train station interior and, later, the Glen Island Park revisions. What I discovered was that:
This last is what's really alarming about this whole affair. What's the point of having lengthy, detailed articles about New Rochelle—about any topic—if they're crammed with misinformation and misleading citations, and plagiarized from other works into the bargain? I've had previous experience on Wikipedia where someone came in and wanted to level an extensive series of obscure articles to the ground, and I think the only way to defend yourself in that situation is to be brutally honest in assessing the articles you're trying to protect. Source 'em to the nines. Chop out and rewrite anything close to copyvio. That's the only way to save them when people take an interest in deletion. And right now, this is not happening. Maybe I'm reading with a jaundiced eye, but this is how your recent exchanges with Orlady sound, in condensed form:
I can pretty much guarantee you that "Orlady hates New Rochelle" and "Removing misinformation makes these articles short and useless" is not going to trump WP:V and WP:COPYVIO in the court of Wikipedian opinion.
I think you're a good guy, and if there really is a systematic problem where people can't make *good* contributions to New Rochelle–related articles, I want to help fix it. But the only way to make progress on that is to acknowledge that the things I've found in my investigation above are malfeasance, and that the people who are doing that should not be allowed to edit Wikipedia. If there's anything you want to send me off-Wiki to clarify your position, please do. Because right now, I'm seeing a valuable contributor run his reputation into the gutter for reasons that are not, frankly, clear to me, and I'd like to find a solution that's better for you and for Wikipedia. Choess ( talk) 02:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
# 15:28 . . Wknight94 (talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Beechmont (New Rochelle)" (G8: Page dependent on a deleted or nonexistent page) # (Deletion log); 15:28 . . Wknight94 (talk | contribs) deleted "Beechmont (New Rochelle)" (G5: Creation by a banned user in violation of ban: Yet another Jvolkblum battleground)
Can you get me the NRHP nomination form for the Merrill Lock No. 6 (#80003410), in Beaver County, Pennsylvania? I've never figured out where I can get nomination forms online, except for the few that Google finds. Nyttend ( talk) 01:13, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Doncram,
I don't know why, but i looked at my user contributions the past month instead of my watchlist, therefore, i missed your reply. I would probably have contacted you the day of your reply or a day later, and now a few weeks have past. It was pure coincidence. I haven't done anything with Wikipedia the last month. I see you are pretty active.
Despite the lack of activity, there still is a group of people for the historical atlas. The most important interraction is not visible for the public on the project page, because we use email. I think it is better to use the project talk page. But the benefit of email is that social bonding is easier. Present situation is that we are with 3 or 4 people. I was thinking about making some initial maps, but i lack severely in money and need to take care of my income first. A programmer, Tibor, is busy in private life, but he will look at the programming part of making the historical atlas. We got email contact with an Australian director from the university of Sydney, who is in charge of a project which includes making maps for historical atlases. He got a program that we will use. Tibor will look at that when he got time. There is also another member, but i don't know if he is still active.
I will look at the links you provided.
Bye,
Daanschr ( talk) 08:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your words of encouragement, it is much appreciated!!! So I'm not in a vacuum after all ;) I already have more on my plate than a lifetime's worth of work-alas, we live in such a large state, but I will keep the task force in mind if the offer still applies in the future. Again, thank you very kindly for the assistance, both in morale-boosting and resource-getting. Marcia Wright ( talk) 06:03, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
You have left a request for a photo of the Academy of Music in Philadelphia, PA. Unfortunately, the Academy is undergoing extensive restoration work, and the front facade is covered with scaffolding and the windows are covered with plywood. I have uploaded the photo at Wikimedia Commons, but the result is not satisfactory to me, and should not be used, in my opinion. -- DThomsen8 ( talk) 14:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
If the infobox is intended for areas that are formally on the IUCN list there would be far fewer valid cases where the infobox could be used. I don't think thats what you meant to say. There was no mention in the original template documentation that stated the requirement that it be used only for areas that are on the list or might qualify. If the IUCN field is not specified then I don't see the harm. Many areas that are considered protected such as Managed Resource Protected Areas are heavily exploited for natural resources. Habitat/Species Management Areas such as wildlife refuges in the US are highly modified and are primarily supported and exploited by hunters. I'm sure you are aware of this and I don't mean to be pedantic. My point is that there are few truly protected area. Even national parks are exploited by tourists and these visitors are considered consumers by the National Park service.
So I guess what I'm trying to say (forgive the rant) is that maybe there should be more over site on how the IUCN classifications are applied. I'm also thinking someone should consider the possibility of having one infobox for IUCN area, World Heritage Site areas and NRHP sites. In my travels through articles that use the Infobox Protected area template I have noticed a number of occasions when there were two of these boxes on the same page.
There is story that applies to this I think. "Years ago when I was visiting Yosemite and I stopped at at a pull off on Tioga Pass Road. There were a number of people there including a ranger. I overheard one of the tourists ask the ranger 'Who is taking care of all the squirrels.'" I don't think we should worry too much about what the squirrels are doing. Somehow it all works out. Don't take any of this too seriously. -- droll [chat] 22:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Per your message above, I have indeed deleted Beechmont (New Rochelle). It was created and edited by at least six different Jvolkblum socks. And you were about to get a fight from another who commented on the talk page not wanting it to be merged. So, now you are free of the banned user and you can merge at your leisure. You're welcome. (BTW, interesting how all of his pages have suddenly lit up on my watchlist all at the same time after all being 100% quiet for so many days. Again, it's almost as though there were only one person..........) — Wknight94 ( talk) 23:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I've purposely avoided all of the Jvolkblum/New Rochelle debates, as I've got enough RL aggravation. However: it is an established fact that Jvolkblum has disrupted the project and is banned, from what I see, for sound reasons. I've blocked a fair number of sincere people who want to contribute to the project but can't manage to work within the rules. I don't do that lightly, but they need to be removed from the project for the sake of the project. How useful is it to have a nice set of New Rochelle articles of unverifiable or worthless integrity? You do excellent work, and I value you and your contributions highly, so it pains me to see you squandering your credibility in this manner and indulging in complaints about everyone who opposes you. This is a consensus-driven project, and consensus is firmly against you. Acroterion (talk) 01:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello, Doncram.
I think your obvious devotion deserves a clear, final warning before sanctions are applied. At this time, your obsession with defending hypothetical victims of errors in misidentifying socks of a highly destructive vandal (none of which, I should point out, have ever been considered seriously as even possible errors) has begun to severely affect your own reputation and the community's patience towards you.
You have been told, unequivocally, on three AN threads (and a request for arbitration) that you are (a) barking up the wrong tree, (b) doing so disruptively, and (c) exhausting the community's patience by insisting on continuing your crusade. To make things perfectly clear, none of those users will be unblocked at your request. Ever. It will not happen. There was no misconduct by editors or administrators. Orlady is doing a stellar, difficult job of tracking down that vandal, and has the full support of the community.
You need to stop that crusade now, and for good. Do not further argue the topic— in the extremely unlikely case that one of those blocked accounts happened to have genuinely been a collateral damage, they can request being unblocked and argue their case. Doing so yourself cannot result in an unblock, and harms you.
I very much expect that if this finds itself on a noticeboard again with your name associated, you're likely to end up being blocked yourself; you narrowly escaped that very fate on the latest thread.
Take care, — Coren (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram: I don't know if you think you're some sort of civil rights crusader here, or if you're trying to fight some sort of big injustice, but you have been going over and over and over and OVER with this crusade. It's getting really tiresome. I could say more here -- a lot more -- but I'm too angry to really articulate it. You are wasting a lot of people's time going off on this stupid crusade, and meanwhile, your articles are suffering.
As an example: When I checked out Hill to Hill Bridge, a new article, I found that Bethlehem Waterworks was linked to it. It's a National Historic Landmark, and when I read the article and noticed how short it was, I knew it was one of yours. Here's one of the pearls of wisdom from it: "(It) is a site significant for its age." That doesn't give the reader any context. Doing just a little bit of research -- just reading the PDF online -- would have produced some more interesting facts. It was the first municipal pumping system that provided drinking and washing water anywhere in the American colonies. The Moravians who founded Bethlehem, Pennsylvania in 1741 had a village of several hundred people in 1750, and since they were spending so much time and effort hauling water up from the creek, they contracted with a local carpenter/millwright to build a water works. It was an ingenious system inspired by European technology. Yet the reader of the Wikipedia article on this topic wouldn't realize this -- all they'd know is that it's a site historic for its age, and it's on the banks of a creek.
I guess I'm seeing two different problems here: First, you're spending a lot of time advocating on behalf of a banned user who has been known to willfully damage the encyclopedia by inserting false, misleading, and unreferenced content. Despite everyone's attempts to convince you that there's a reason for the ban, and that the banned user(s) should appeal for themselves to resolve the ban, you keep pressing on with this crusade. Despite everyone's attempts to convince you to let the matter drop, you keep on railing against the administrators involved. The second major problem, which is unrelated, is that you've been creating a lot of short stubby NRHP articles that have no context and don't provide any useful information for the reader. "The houses are, indisputably, houses." is NOT educational. I don't know how many two-sentence stubs you've created that don't have context, but I can only guess at how many of those articles someone else is going to have to come back and clean up. I really think you should take on that duty yourself and produce at least a modicum of information before you press the "Save Page" button. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
It's cool. Only thing needed doing was tweak the links to Commons, which was easy. I remember when I created the stubs, thinking how odd it was that two identically named listings were so close [1]. And not the same person, AFAIK. Though the Townsend Building in Lake Butler is "related" to the house there. Cheers! :) -- Ebyabe ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I saw your comment on Nytend's talk page about the above. I changed a couple of Chester County names today to reflect the post office name rather than the township name. Many of these appear to be in township MPSs which is fine but I think a PO name is preferable. One had several local places listed but I went with the one the church itself uses {Wayne, PA]) Best wishes. clariosophic ( talk) 20:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I am puzzled. Why am I unable to find this here, here and why is it a redirect.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Don, I saw on dm's talk page that you are interested in Snyder-Middleswarth National Natural Landmark in Pennsylvania. Snyder-Middleswarth Natural Area exists as an article (the name is what the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources calls it now - it used to be a state park). I made the first red link above into a redirect. There are some sources hidden in the article as comments, and I have some print sources too. If I could ever find out when it stopped being a state park, I think it could be a FA. I also have been there and several times and have some photos to upload to Commons. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 12:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to give you a simple "thanks" in case you weren't watching the discussion from Killiondude's discussion page - SoSaysChappy ( talk) 13:39, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Doncram, you have been persistent in accusing me of being a bully, both before and during my ongoing RfA. In my interactions with you, I try hard to focus on the subject matter and not the person, but since you have insisted on personalizing the situation, I think I need to respond in kind. I believe that you are the one who is truly a bully, and you are labeling me as a bully primarily because I have refused to back down in the face of your bullying. I don't know whether you have behaved similarly with others (I hope not), but I'd like you to examine your interactions with me so you can recognize your bullying behavior and refrain from this behavior in the future. Some of your comments at Talk:National Register of Historic Places featured properties and districts are almost a textbook example of bullying. If you review that page, you will see that I started the discussion by posting a straightforward query on the talk page, commenting that I did not see encyclopedic value in the article and asking "What notability am I overlooking?" That was an invitation to provide your reasoning, not an attack. You responded quickly (but did not answer the question about notability), saying: "Whether or not it is a great wikipedia article yet, it's not hurting anyone or anything, either. I hope you will please not make a stink about this." A few hours later, after my response to you, you responded back to me in a statement that I consider to have been belligerent. Here it is, in part:
I see that as the language of a bully, inciting an aggressive response by accusing the other party of inciting aggression, and concluding by delivering a message that can be distilled to "butt out of my turf!" In my response, I interpreted your comments about lack of coverage for the topic as "acknowledg[ing] that this topic currently lacks notability" (because your words had reflected language in the Notability guidelines, I assumed you were familiar with the guidelines, although you essentially denied this later on). Also, I said "I was hoping that you would agree to move this page outside of article space," but that it could be moved into article space in the future if evidence of notability was found. I concluded: "I also don't want to take this to AfD. However, if it's necessary to go through an AfD discussion to reach consensus regarding the application of WP policy to this article, I will reluctantly take the article there." (Note that you, not I, had been the first one to mention the possibility of taking the article to AfD.) Your next statement indicated that (to my surprise) you were not very familiar with Wikipedia policies, and you indicated an unwillingness to participate in WP processes. You said that WP policies "often conflict anyhow and have to be interpreted in long processes that are often hard to fathom," and objected to the possibility of an AfD, saying "Just because you have the power to create an issue and to force me and others to consider it, doesn't mean you are compelled to use it." In the schoolyard context, this was like the bully saying: "Keep this between you and me, here in the schoolyard; don't call in the school authorities." I responded with an explanation of my understanding of the notability guideline, the reason why I found the article lacking in notability, and a quotation from WP:NOT that supported my view that it did not belong in article space. I concluded that "there is .... nothing preventing this from being maintained in project space, as a useful resource." Your next comment asked me to "explain reasons." You focused the comment on me, questioning my motives ("reasons for creating an issue here", "why spend your and my time in your attacking this"), and made the statement I cited earlier: "If you don't feel like explaining, and if you feel inexplicably compelled to continue, then go ahead and raise the issue in AfD or wp:Requested moves or requests for arbitration or whatever other forum, and I will respond more fully to point out what I feel to be inaccuracies in your statements, and I will muster arguments for keeping this list-article where it is now." I see that as a bully drawing a line in the sand, or the equivalent of " Go ahead, make my day." Although your comment had been focused on me and my motives, I chose not to respond to that aspect of your comment, but instead responded by enumerating the issues I saw regarding the article. I saw this as a reasonable response to your request to "explain my reasons", and since you said nothing more on the subject (after 10 comments on the talk page in about 29 hours, there was no activity for almost 4 days). I misinterpreted your silence as acquiescence, so I moved the page to project space (what I had proposed earlier and as User:Appraiser had encouraged doing). Apparently, though, you had been watching and waiting for me to do that (that was my crossing of that metaphorical line in the sand), and you reverted my page move 35 minutes after I made it. After that behavior, I truly believed (and I still believe) that you had "dared" me to take the article to AfD.
This is hardly the only instance in which your communications to me have had a strong flavor of "Get out of my space and stay out, or else!" That is the classic behavior of a bully. I can only conclude that it is because I refused to back down in the face of your bullying that you have reacted by attaching the "bully" label to me. -- Orlady ( talk) 16:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)On the general subject of interpersonal behavior, I am disappointed to find evidence that you have been canvassing to encourage others to change their !votes on my RfA. How many other users have you contacted in this fashion? And how many did you alert to the RfA, or like this? -- Orlady ( talk) 01:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I know you're interested in CNY stuff. I just uploaded a bunch of road pics for Mitchazenia here [ [3]], if you feel like taking a look. Note the snow in the last one, taken on April 5. I bet it's nicer where you are. Lvklock ( talk) 03:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to thank you truly for your recent additions to your comments at Siena College. I had not taken offence to anything you had said before, but do appreciate the clarification of your position on my views. It seems a few editors take issue with the way I present my facts and dont care if my facts are true or not, they just assume they are not. Though thanks to your kind words I may just revive Camelbinky since you have proven that I do have friends around here. Again- thank you. Camelbinky ( talk) 07:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
What was this edit for? I stumbled upon the article (I found that its actually relatively close to where I live), and when I perused the article history I noticed that edit. Just curious. Thanks, Killiondude ( talk) 07:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I really don't understand why you want to pick a fight with Orlady on my talk page. You've already done this at WP:AN/I, WP:RFAR, WP:RFA, and whatever featured article/featured list discussions where you've clashed with her. I guess you're going to go ahead and snipe on my talk page since it's your custom. I was just sort of testing the waters as far as making Hennepin County a featured list when I asked Orlady her opinion. Since you and Orlady are just going to butt heads together, on a list where I've invested the huge majority of effort, I'm not even sure I want to bother with the process of seeking featured list status. It would be just another series of pointless arguments. And to think I've driven all over Hennepin County to take photos, all the way from Hassan Township in the north to Rockford in the west, and even snowshoed across Lake Minnetonka in the winter so I could get to Crane Island. No, let's just go ahead and shoot down the process -- and shoot down the list in the first place -- so you can start yet another battle. Now I know why I've lost faith in WP:NRHP and in my editing of Wikipedia in general. And this shouldn't even be my fiasco to begin with. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for starting this article! I've added quite a bit and an old photo, Ive found it fun working on it, even though it probably wont ever get very big. If you can do one of those DYK's for it, I think that would be great, but I've never done anything like that before so am hesitant to nominate it myself. I'm hoping Wadester can help out and take a current photo from roughly the same spot and angle as the 1890 photo so we can have a good contrast between 1890 and today. I came across something, but the website wasnt all that reliable that the house underwent renovations in the 1800's that made it more in the Federal-style, did you come across any comments like that in the NRHP site? I havent been able to verify the statement anywhere other than one other source that says the house was "modified during the Federal period" which I dont know is the same as putting in Federal-style architecture or just expanding the footprint of the building during a specific historical era called the "Federal period". Camelbinky ( talk) 22:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, I'm glad you like it, its the first NRHP article I've worked on, that I know of at least. Wadester agreed to take a photo if time allows, it may be awhile though, but its not like the article is in any time-crunch anyways. I'm thinking the three of us could be a great team to go through pretty quickly all the NRHP redlinks in the Capital District (probably constrained at first on how far Wadester is willing to drive). I'll start looking over the footnote link and learning about the special quirks relating to NRHP articles, but if you want to make as many of those redlinks into stubs with the basic NRHP templates and standard info, I can probably churn out history sections for them fast enough to keep up and then if Wadester wants to he could at his leisure take current photos of them. I remember there was another editor in the CD wikiproject who had listed that he had a good collection of photos of NRHP sites in the Capital District..perhaps contacting that user would be of help, as many people as we can get would speed things along. Camelbinky ( talk) 04:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I created this stub a while ago. Recently a revision was done that I believe is Copyvio and a problem as promotional info. To be honest, I'm not terribly interested in policing this kind of stuff. I'm not sure whether reverting the edit is the appropriate action, and if it is whether I'm supposed to give some kind of waarning first. I thought of asking Daniel Case, as an admin I'm familiar with, but he's on vacation. Should I take it to a different Admin, or what? Lvklock ( talk) 01:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Please pardon my copying the following section from above; I just realised that you might not have noticed my comments, as I placed them in the middle of the page.
I see that the WP:NRHP section with how-to-get-forms for each state has nothing on Ohio. I'd appreciate having access to Ohio forms for when I go home; do you know where those can be obtained? I know that I can get them through the Ohio Historic Preservation Office, but I don't feel like paying for them (see the bottom of this page, their profile of the Plaza Apartments, for details), so I'd appreciate it if you could find if they're hosted anywhere for free, like the Pennsylvania ones that you showed me. I'm not going to be home for a month, so please don't think that this is some sort of urgent request :-) In the meantime, I'll continue using the Pennsylvania ones; I hope to get out to the Old Homestead in Lawrence County this week, and the materials on its form will be quite helpful. Nyttend ( talk) 04:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello, this message is being sent to you since you are a member of the Accountancy task force. This is just a heads-up that the task force has been expanded with new features and its main page modified. Now that the task force has assessed over 800 articles in its scope, a breakdown can be seen of the quality of articles. A new userbox can be added to your page, and if you know of a editor contributing to accounting articles, a welcoming template can be used to invite the editor to join the task force. If you haven't already, consider watchlisting the main discussion page. There is currently a discussion about adding a template to some main accounting topics that would benefit from input by other editors. Feel free to leave feedback on the discussion page for further improving these new features. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 ( talk) 07:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
(This is, confusingly, a copy of my notice plus Kaldari's response at User talk:Kaldari#stop canvassing. Kaldari's apparent canvassing has been discussed now at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#inappropriate canvassing where Kaldari concedes the appearance of vote-stacking by his edits. The possibility that Kaldari further covered something up is further discussed at its subsection "further, coverup?".
I am going to collapsing the discussion that appeared here, and I suggest further comments should be at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#inappropriate canvassing and possibly at User talk:Kaldari, where there is at least one other comment already. doncram ( talk) 21:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I noticed your second announcement of an ongoing RfA at Wikiproject Tennessee, which I think verges on inappropriate canvassing. I see you have since posted 5 announcements at selected individual Talk pages. Stop it. doncram ( talk) 19:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I added the photo of the Quackenbush House there. Also I noticed that the Albany Academy link is to the academy itself and there is no article on the original building itself, which is what is on the list. Should the building itself have an article or do you think the academy article is enough? The original building is (at least for now) the offices for the Albany City School District and was where Joseph Henry conducted his experiments that led to the discovery of electro-magnetism/self induction (among other things never patented and led to the invention of things such as the telegraph). Camelbinky ( talk) 06:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
(section retitled from "Thanks for your support" by Doncram, so i can link to this from elsewhere)
Hello,
Just wanted to say thanks for your message. Am working hard to get the Oyster Bay content in order. Interesting issue with Fleet's Hall. This is for a building that once existed in the center of Oyster Bay, but which is now demolished. Apparently people feel it's not notable. I strongly disagree. Thankfully, most of my other articles are for historic buildings that are still intact. Any help you can provide dealing with these pesky editors who don't understand historic buildings would be helpful.
Inoysterbay ( talk) 23:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Regarding your move of Jefferson College (Mississippi).. there is no other Jefferson College in Mississippi. There's a 2 year Jefferson College in Missouri, but there are no others in Mississippi. Therefore, you should undo the move. - ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 22:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the good wishes on my RfA, Doncram. I also hope for the best -- and I'm still afraid of letting my fingers get too close to the links that say "block" and "delete." -- Orlady ( talk) 03:26, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I apologize, I am back in Chicago and realize that the sign I took a picture of for Allentown Historic District (Buffalo, New York) is not within the designated Historic District.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I have started using OpenStreetMap, which was mentioned in signposts a week and a half ago. I have produced about a half dozen maps including those used in Delaware Avenue Historic District, Allentown Historic District (Buffalo, New York), Entranceway at Main Street at Roycroft Boulevard, and Entranceways at Main Street at Lamarck Drive and Smallwood Drive. Have you tried it? I just use Microsoft Paint to add lines to the maps it yields.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 05:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Nice stub for one of the UNESCO WHS's that didn't have one. Did you just copy an infobox from another article and fill the stuff in from the WHS website? Lvklock ( talk) 19:25, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement. I needed it after getting into my first dispute over at Ranchos of California where I am working on eventually having an entry for every (about 800) rancho in California. I am still finding my way around - I still haven't figured simple things like where to reply to a message on my talk page. Emargie ( talk) 04:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Unless I am missing something, aren't these all redundant considering they are listed in a parent list? For example, do we need National Register of Historic Places listings in Leflore County, Mississippi when it's already in National Register of Historic Places listings in Mississippi? - ℅ ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 00:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Doncram - good to see a few new geo-stubs for places in Mississippi. Just a quick heads-up that it'll save some work further down the line if you could mark any new ones you make with {{ Mississippi-geo-stub}} rather than just {{ geo-stub}}. All countries and lots of subnational regions (including all US states) have their own geo-stubs, all in the form StateName-geo-stub. Cheers, and keep up the good work! :) Grutness... wha? 00:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
NP. Glad to help. Any time. Lvklock ( talk) 01:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Quick correction: I did not block Acepharma ( talk · contribs), a checkuser did - along with several other sock accounts. It was a bit troubling to see that you had already found this user, and even mentioned a connection to Jvolkblum. I wouldn't have needed to delete all the sock's articles if you had raised your suspicion before it went wild creating them all. But if you prefer it this way, that's fine too. Wknight94 talk 20:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I dont want to confront or start another argument with Hippo43 but can you take a look at the info I put into Loudonville that Hippo keeps removing. It is my personal opinion that he is removing the info because it may make him "look bad" in that it is a legitimate newspaper source that mentions that some people use Loudonville PO boxes as their addresses even if they live outside the mailing area just because it makes their business seem "higher class" and legitimizes what some of us said at Siena College that PERHAPS the college wanted to promote the name L. for its own benefit. But anyways, I just wanted a second opinion, if you think the info I put in really doesnt belong then I'll go along, but if you dont think so I still dont know what to do because I'm not going to get into another convo with that guy! I'll ask an admin to look at it too because this isnt the first time since the Siena College ruckus that Hippo has removed info I've put into an article claiming "the info isnt relevant". Camelbinky ( talk) 00:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
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The Half Barnstar | |
We may not agree on everything, but your insistence on standing up for what is important to you, and your refusal to accept mediocrity, is one of the things that makes Wikipedia better (and helped make PhotoCatBot a better bot!) For your spirited argument on photo requests and WikiProject NRHP, I award you the Left Half of the Half Barnstar. :-) Tim Pierce ( talk) 04:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC) |
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The Half Barnstar | |
I award you, doncram, the right half of this barnstar for your excellent combined efforts with Camelbinky for work on Capital District-related articles as of late. Keep up the good work. ~ ωαdεstεr16 «talk stalk» 06:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC) |
Of course you're right that DAB should be orphans, I was sleepy, sorry for the bother. Kevin Rector ( talk) 16:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Do I understand rightly that I don't have to pay for copies of nomination forms requested from http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/about.htm#contactus? I just sent an email to request three forms, but I can't remember if a fee will be required. Nyttend ( talk) 13:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
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The WikiProject Barnstar | |
Your efforts at WP:NRHP and WP:HSITES have been heroic. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 14:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC) |
Template:Church disambig has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. —
Remember the dot (
talk)
01:29, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. That was very helpful; never knew you could do that. ~ ωαdεstεr16 «talk stalk» 13:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Have you checked out some of the info I put in to expand Albany Union Station? I dont know if the deadline has expired on putting a DYK on that article or if anything in it really merits a DYK but I just thought you might want to consider it. I've never done a DYK so I'm not so sure about what the criteria is. Camelbinky ( talk) 23:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Don ... I'm working my way through North Carolina a county at a time. I know the number of properties in each county because I have a spreadsheet with all of the NC listings. Some of the counts in the table may be off by 1 or 2, but they should be pretty accurate. -- sanfranman59 ( talk) 07:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
You've earned a lot of them! dm ( talk) 18:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
FYI this new NRHP article: Grand Gulf Military State Park (Mississippi). Please help flesh it out if you know of anything worth adding. Also, the coordinates.. they need adjusting. I initially used the coordinates from National Register of Historic Places listings in Claiborne County, Mississippi but that didn't put GGMSP anywhere near the Mississippi River or anywhere in Claiborne County on the location image map in the infobox. So I tried adjusting them myself. I got GGMSP on the river but it's not in Claiborne County. Thanks. - ℅ ✰ ALLST☆R✰ echo 19:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I just started this stub and added a picture gallery. I can't decide what pic should go in the infobox. Take a look and see what you think. Lvklock ( talk) 22:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Basically what's going on is twofold: (1) Andrew is advocating having some of the images at sizes other than 100px, while I'm saying that it's not necessary and perhaps detracts from the page a little. We both see this as a minor issue. (2) Inclusion of a line in the table as follows:
Site name | Image | Date listed | Location | Proximate Major Street | Summary | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
999 | NRHP Properties in Highland Park |
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Various locations near Woodward Ave., between Tuxedo/Tennyson St. and Mc Nichols Rd. | Woodward 13000 | Highland Park is an enclave within the city of Detroit, centered on Woodward Avenue. The NRHP properties in Highland Park, including the National Historic Landmark Highland Park Ford Plant, are located on or near Woodward. |
I'm strongly opposing this, as this isn't an actual listing, and as Andrew agrees, it's not in Detroit, so I believe that it shouldn't be included in a Detroit-only list. Andrew's response is basically "we shouldn't base this list exclusively on political boundaries; it's an enclave, so it is geographically within Detroit and should count as part of Detroit for the purposes of this list". I've strongly opposed that, since these lists are always done by political boundaries. Nyttend ( talk) 21:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, meeting again. I understand you are working with NHRP-lists. I am about to backread some more talks about this shortly, starting from Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation we know and the talks and their archives. But already before I dive into it, I would suggest you try a holdback on relating pages to NHRP (like Valencia today). The abbreviation itself might be very unknown outside U.S. (I really could not link to it at first, both mentally and e-wise). But more important: a thing being on that list is just a property of the thing. It is not a defining or signifying property. So maybe I might suggest shortly that the abbreviation is used not in these situations. -22:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Sure, I did wonder if the architecture for that one merited a page. Good work andycjp ( talk) 22:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
User:BFDhD recently added an "Idora Park Merry-Go-Round" to the Mahoning County, Ohio list; after searching, I could find it, so I removed it. It was soon restored (along with the removal of the Burt Building, listed last July), with the comment of "Burt isn't YET listed", and BFDhD gave me the reference number for the merry-go-round, #75001482. Plugging this into Elkman, I get a note of "This property may not actually be listed on the National Register - listing code is RN". It is listed on nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com, and the Burt Building (due to being listed just last July) isn't, so I'm wondering if this user is going by that site in good faith. What does "RN" mean, do you know? If you get a chance, could you investigate this a little? Nyttend ( talk) 05:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
PSI thought OHPO had a search function for delisted properties. They do not. Apologies!-- BFDhD ( talk) 02:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Is there some central repository for dates of delistings? All this has made me wonder about the way we reference our delistings that aren't in Recent Listings pages; that's why, for example, when I tablised Iowa, I hid all the delisted properties rather than putting them into tables. I'm going to be leaving a similar comment for Dtbohrer, since s/he does a good deal of work with delistings. Nyttend ( talk) 16:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your contribution to my talk page. To answer your question, I am basing my information on the physical files at the Ohio State Historic Preservation Office (which I visited in person last week, in Columbus, Ohio) as well as the OHPO's Web site devoted to the NR ( http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/ohpo/nr/index.aspx). I will address your other points on the various talk pages you suggested.-- BFDhD ( talk) 19:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
If you happen to run across any Pennsylvania NRHP articles that are needed to support the disambig pages you create, could you let me know? I will probably notice anyways and expand it (like William Montgomery House (Lancaster, Pennsylvania) just now), but I figure it would be faster/less work for you for me to start a good stub ( oxymoron?), rather than a 2 sentence stub. -- D.B. talk• contribs 01:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Do you mean that "Sacred Heart Cathedral and Cathedral School" has been changed now by the Register? I wasn't clear what you meant. Nyttend ( talk) 02:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Why did you move this page to Ames Shovel Shops? It's not the common name. I don't know what possessed you to do such a thing.-- Marcbela ( talk) 12:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks buddy I appreciate you expanding that. I created some quick stubs the other day to make Belarus-struct-stub viable. I only started articles I thought were notable. Dr. Blofeld White cat 12:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
... for resolving the subpage name issue. Personally, I probably would have gone for [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation/Every thought that has ever passed through the mind of User:Proofreader77 relating to a particular disambiguation page, including poetic renditions thereof, transcribed directly without any intervening editing or reflection, and with copious subheadings]], but your title will work, too. :-)
What is Wikipedia's policy on harassment? I feel that I am being unnecessarily targeted by a particular user (whose name I will not divulge here, but you work with him often) to cite my sources for just about every sentence I write or have written. He is inconsistent with practicing what he preaches (pestering me to add citations, yet claiming that his work is sufficient in itself without sourced information), I find his behavior to be borderline badgering (egging me on with snide passive-aggressive comments in the edit summaries, posting in a rude tone on my page), and I don't know what to do to make it stop. I'm not sure, but I get the feeling that he doesn't like me moving in on his perceived "territory," but that would just be silly. There is no "territory" here. I simply know a lot about a certain topic and would like to contribute that knowledge to Wikipedia. I'm worried that he might be trying to get me to leave Wikipedia altogether, but I believe that my contributions are really helpful and I further believe that Wikipedia's content should be as factual as possible. (At the very least, as consistent as possible: either citations are needed for all things, and when absent they should all be called out as "citation needed" until one is provided, or we don't need citations at all, which I think is anti-Wikipedia.) I would be fine with the communication with this user if he would just stop the passive aggression and leave the disparaging tone out of things, especially the edit summaries. I think, by all means, make edits and add citation needed where necessary, but this isn't a battle, and I don't want to engage in any sort of dispute. I just want to edit, correct where necessary, contribute what I can and move forward. What do you think I should do? I appreciate your comments and the even-handed approach I've observed you to have regarding just about everything. Thanks!-- BFDhD ( talk) 15:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Formally request you refrain from further modification of headings which are specifically designed to allow a quick summary of the issues and its use as a reference page (in several contexts).
I have read your concerns. I have responded to your concerns. I am grateful for your attention to this complex matter, but let us not spin our wheels over clear disagreements.
I do not expect much further discussion there. What it provides is a reference which allows specific concerns to be addressed more concisely, with reference to the longer "outline" of the context.
Please excuse abrupt tone. Attempting to be short, if not sweet. :) Cheers. -- Proofreader77 ( talk) 20:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
This is another one on my watchlist that has recent edits that are copypasted from elsewhere ( http://www.trinitychurchelmira.org/). You are much clearer on copyvio/plagiarism stuff than I am. Take a look? Lvklock ( talk) 03:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
just forwarding one more link to an article (entitled 'Then & Now: Glen Island') from a local website with reader comments relevant to wikipedia (<blacklisted site removed>).
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