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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources has been
nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk)
22:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
I increasingly find Library Genesis to be a very helpful search engine for academic papers, more so than Google Books. In particular, it excells at finding book reviews. Ex. compare [http:/blacklisted_domain_removed/scimag/?q=Groundswell.+Winning+in+a+World+Transformed+by+Social+Technologies LG] return hits and Google Scholar. I first noticed it few weeks ago while looking for reviews for this book I wrote an entry on. If anyone is concerned about legality, note that LG has been mentioned at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request (with a caution note) for quite a while now, with no objections/controversy. We could add a link to such note to the template through a tiny hperlink to address any related concerns. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
been planning on adding Sage and Cambridge Core. Any objections? ∯WBG converse 06:52, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't particularly have an issue with it, but I do want to just bring up for discussion the fact that the NYT is the only newspaper included with this template. While it is probably true that the NYT has the best claim to being the newspaper of record for the English speaking world, I'm saying that as an American, and I can imagine those in other English speaking countries objecting that the NYT is not the best source for them, and that perhaps another paper should be included, or that no specific paper should be included, so that Google News (a more dynamic way to find a quality source, but also not as curated) can be used instead. I guess my point is mainly that this template in some way implies that we're endorsing the NYT over every other newspaper, and while in a practical sense that's probably the reasonable thing to do for the situations this template is used for, we should at least have some discussion to establish a consensus. (Also, as a minor cosmetic note, NYT ought to be italicized, and I'd appreciate someone with template editing privileges making that fix.) - Sdkb ( talk) 05:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
I noticed the template's Google news search excludes this article, though the word 'wikipedia' does not seem to appear anywhere in it.
See: Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
I use Internet Archive all the time to look for sources, especially on old topics. Would it make sense to include a full-text search of archive.org on this template? AleatoryPonderings ( talk) 20:57, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Template:Find sources has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please italicize NYT
per
MOS:ITALICS, since it's an abbreviation of the name of a newspaper. {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk
01:47, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Italics should be used for the following types of names and titles, or abbreviations thereof:
- Major works of art and artifice, such as albums, books, video games, films, musicals, operas, symphonies, paintings, sculptures, newspapers,...
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Just a quick note that the Wikipedia Library link should point to https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/ rather than /partners, as the correct entry point for accessing content :) Samwalton9 (WMF) ( talk) 11:02, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Mathglot ( talk) 20:50, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The following is a brief summary of current consensus. Please feel free to edit this list if you disagree with anything or if something changes based on discussions happening elsewhere.
|
Development status
Launch features
Deferred feature backlog
Unresolved open issues
Last edited by: Wikmoz ( talk) 18:24, 6 November 2021 (UTC) |
The proposal at VPP to improve customization of this template was approved. This discussion is to track implementation, and to discuss any issues that may arise. Adding Wikmoz, and Sdkb; feel free to notify other interested users. Mathglot ( talk) 00:52, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
For starters, I thought we could talk about what we are implementing. Here are the four possible "find sources" templates (FSTs) so far:
Of these, I think it was clear we are implementing the wrapper which will choose between two, possibly three of them: B (bio) and G (gen; aka, the default template, that is: {{ find general sources}}[post implementation] = {{ find sources}}[currently]). Maybe also V, as that template existed prior to the VPP proposal, and has a clear WikiProject associated with it. Seemed like the sense was to maybe put off B (bio) to a later stage. Does that concur with everybody's impression? Mathglot ( talk) 01:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The other thing I think we decided was to go with an automatic, WikiProject-detection scheme, overridable by opt-in usage of a param, such as |search-domain=
or similar. - Mathglot - 01:36, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
{{Talk header|search_term=Medtronic|search_domain=general|archive_age=365|archive_bot=lowercase sigmabot III}}
An issue was raised about auto-detection in some cross-project topics, such as medical device companies, for which med-only links would be too restrictive, and we'd either want the G-links, or both sets. Wasn't clear to me whether we decided to deal with that issue in the first implementation, or only with refinement after the first one. Mathglot ( talk) 01:46, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Note: this page was previously a redirect to Module talk:Find sources. With the implementation of this proposal, and especially insofar as the wrapper template is concerned, the topic and interests of this talk page and the Module talk page diverge sufficiently that they have been uncoupled again. Once this implementation is complete, and any follow-up issues are taken care of, a discussion can be had at some future date as to whether it makes sense to merge the talk pages again. Mathglot ( talk) 00:55, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The wrapper is here: {{ Find sources/sandbox}}. It uses helper subtemplate {{ Find sources/top proj}} which probably needs a rename. There's a mocked up usage of the sandbox wrapper here: Talk:Cochlear Limited/Talk header test. Mathglot ( talk) 01:34, 17 October 2021 (UTC) updated by Mathglot ( talk) 01:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Explanation of some wrapper design considerations: the core of WikiProject autodetection was moved out of the wrapper sandbox to subtemplate {{ Find sources/top proj}} some time ago. Neither of these two templates is very long or that complex as far as nesting or squirrely code is concerned, but the concepts of what is going on functionally are a bit complex, and for the sake of future template editors I thought it best to divide the functionality this way. This localizes all of the project autodetection in subtemplate "top proj", while the wrapper concentrates on picking between project autodetect and search-domain override (and possibly other methods in the future).
Another design consideration targeting clarity and future maintainability is the liberal use of newlines and indentation in the wrapper and subtemplate wikicode for alignment of conditionals and switches, taking care that no unwanted white space is introduced into the output. This should also ease understanding of what's going on, and facilitate upgrades and maintenance going forward. I would hope that other editors would continue in the same vein, but that's not up to me, of course.
The name "top_proj" was chosen to suggest the fact that the "top priority" project is returned (not to be confused with the one closest to the top of the Talk page). This means that "top_proj" implements a pecking order among WikiProjects, based on which one is the "most important" and should trump the others if two or more of them appear on the same page. This order is currently: 1. Medicine, 2. Biography, 3. Video games. Note that top_proj *does* return the biography
token (if the article doesn't also belong to Proj Medicine) but the wrapper does not currently recognize 'biography' and will generate "general" source links in this case. This is by design and another benefit of the decoupling of project detection and wrapper domain choice, as the two do not need to be "in sync"; In this case, top_proj is "ahead" of the wrapper, and so if we decide to add biographical source links in a subsequent upgrade, only the wrapper will need to change. (That said, 'biography' should probably be swapped with 'video games', because currently an article which belongs to both 'Biography' and 'Video games' projects—such as
Brianna Wu—will return token 'biography', which the wrapper will ignore, and use the default 'general' links instead; swapping them would return video game links instead.) It's not impossible that other methods of choosing among WikiProjects could be implemented in the future ("highest_proj", or whatever), and in particular, stacked link sets based on multiple projects
has been discussed as a future upgrade possibility, as is noted in the
#Status summary below.
Probably some of this information should be copied someplace (doc pages?) for the benefit of future template editors, but I wanted to record it now while it was still fresh in my mind. @ Wikmoz and Sdkb: (I try to use pings judiciously, but if you wish to stop being pinged to this page because you're already watching it, or maybe only when I update something other than the last section, lmk and I'll try to observe your preferences.) Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 19:34, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Positional search_terms bug: Wikmoz identified a problem in testing, where use of search_terms beyond the first one are not handled by template {{ find medical sources}} (it wasn't designed to; ditto 'general' and 'biographical', in the same way). The reason for the problem is identified, and two approaches are possible. Details at #Final test and rollout planning below. Mathglot ( talk) 18:38, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Some other issues were mentioned or discussed, either at the VPP or separately. We could list these here, and if it affects this implementation, discuss as needed.
I wrote up a subtemplate that could be used as part of the implementation of stacked lists going forward. {{ Find sources/proj list}} examines the talk page for a given page (default: the page it is on), and returns a CSV string with a set of tokens indicating which projects it found. If more than one project is found, it returns a token for each one. (It currently isn't really a csv, because it includes a trailing comma, but that could be trimmed if desired.)
{{Find sources/proj list|Marie Curie}}
= medicine,biography,military,To implement stacked lists, the wrapper would get the tokens, and then generate the {{find * sources}} up to however many are desired, substituting each token for the asterisk. Mathglot ( talk) 21:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
{{ General sources notice}} is part of a suite of such templates which includes {{ medical sources notice}}, {{ biographical sources notice}}, and {{ Military sources notice}}. Strictly speaking, these are outside the scope of the wrapper template and the {{ Talk header}} template, but are a closely related adjunct to them. I see a few use cases for them:
|hide_find_sources=yes
to turn off automatic links in the header, you could choose which find sources domain(s) you wanted, and place them lower (or higher) in the sequence of banners appearing on the talk page.{{find * sources}}
series which can be used inline without highlighting or a new paragraph, whereas the boxed version sets it off visually and in block mode.Currently, the "notice" templates include a small icon at the left, and I was planning on tailoring them to the domain, so that medical notice gets the rod of Asclepius, video would get a little video cam icon, and so on, as an additional visual signal to finding the right set. However, the "find sources" links that are generated by the {{ talk header}} template do not have such icons, so there is a mismatch in how they are handling it currently. I'd like to see the icon retained, including added to the Talk header template (possibly as a background image left, so it doesn't take up any horizontal space) but I suspect consensus would be against that. Mathglot ( talk) 21:26, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
{{
Sources notice|domain=med}}
that works the way you suggest.
Mathglot (
talk)
02:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)I'm frankly not sure what must, or should be ported or changed in the module, once the template-based changes are live and working to our satisfaction. I don't think we have to decide that now, but if there are issues that ought to be thought about while doing the template-based implementation, we can discuss it here. Mathglot ( talk) 01:36, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm seeing multiple testing issues which may be artefacts of the testing environment and interfere with normal testing. I'm going to try to identify them here, and see which ones are real and which aren't, show how to reproduce them, see if there's a workaround, and analyze whether it's a real problem or not.
These issues may show up differently depending on the test environment used:
In brief, I'm seeing tests that fail in Special:ExpandTemplates, may work in Template:Find_sources/testcases, but fail in the test cases in Template:Talk header/testcases but are okay in in situ tests. [a] Mathglot ( talk) 22:53, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The first thing I noticed, is that some environments like #1 (ExpandTemplates) got into a strange loop trying to expand {{ Talk header}} and displaying dozens or hundreds of archive links that didn't exist, and finally ran into a script timer limit, and stopped expanding the template, so that the "find sources" links would never get shown at all.
{{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
in
Special:ExpandTemplates{{
Talk header|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
dies in the same way.|noarchive=yes
: Invoke {{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
The test above that fails in Special:ExpandTemplates passes in an in situ test at Talk:Marie Curie.
{{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
in a)
Special:ExpandTemplates, and b) in
Talk:Marie Curie (by editing it and using Preview mode)|demospace=
):
{{
Talk header/sandbox|search_term1=Marie Curie|search_term2=radium|search_term3=Nobel}}
– {{
find medical sources|Marie Curie|radium|Nobel}}
:Conclusion: the ExpandTemplate tool doesn't reliably display the /sandbox version of {{ Talk header}} for some reason, and we should do in situ tests for this instead. (A summary of this should be added to Template:Talk header/testcases as well.)
more coming...
Notes
"ExpandTemplates" -wikipedia
, whereas the live version it searches "Marie Curie" -wikipedia
.
{{
Talk header|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
(no sandbox) in
Special:ExpandTemplates and got the same endless archive list timeout error. I agree that the ExpandTemplate quirks aren't a blocker so long as things look good in situ. -
Wikmoz (
talk)
04:07, 30 October 2021 (UTC)@
Sdkb and
Wikmoz: I've added changes to the wrapper in {{
find sources/sandbox}} to include project autodetect override via the |domain=
param (alias: |search-domain=
), and modified {{
Talk header/sandbox}} to use the find_sources/sandbox (for now; will need updating at cutover to the main template) and to pass the domain param through. Also, the test cases at
Template:Talk header/testcases have been updated, and
Template:Find sources/testcases has had a major expansion. (Both still new and unchecked so far, so may be buggy or with unclear documentation.)
Am thinking a few days to check it out via discreet testing, then cut both over at the same time, and notify
WP:MED of the release, so they can watch for any bugs or anomalies. For right now, you can test in Preview mode, or alter the Talk header in a few live articles that are isolated or not viewed very much; just change the current Talk header invocation to the sandbox version ({{Talk header/sandbox}}
) with or without the |domain=
param.
Example: to allow Talk:Giardiasis to do WikiProject detection, change the first line to:
{{Talk header/sandbox}}
Expected result: medical source links are shown in the header.
To force
Talk:Giardiasis to ignore override WikiProjects, change the first line to:
{{Talk header/sandbox|domain=general}}
– (or even, |domain=video
)Expected result: ignores the project, shows general links (or video links), as specified by the param. For more details, see the test cases pages.
Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 07:29, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
|2=term2
and |3=term3
and |4=term4
and |5=term5
is equivalent to |2=term2 term3 term4 term5
when doing a search for them.Bug: An article which belongs to both 'biography' and 'video' projects displays only 'general' sources.
Also, probably need to add some 'pecking order' test cases; i.e., if something is in both 'med' and 'video' which set of links is shown? (This whole issue may go away when stacked links is implemented, or maybe it morphs into which set is displayed on top.) Mathglot ( talk) 18:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Bug?: It looks like there's some logic somewhere to remove "Talk:" or anything preceding a colon from the page name when generating the search term. You can see the difference in Template:Find sources/testcases. Maybe there are wildcards in production that are not in the sandbox? Visible here as well:
Not a significant issue but at a minimum, worth tracking if it's not easy to fix. - Wikmoz ( talk) 18:36, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Bug: well, more of a config issue than a bug, really: the links generated by the live template and the sandbox are slightly different: one has "newspapers" link; you can see this in the example you added above, where the sandbox version includes "newspapers" but the live one does not. Since template {{ find general sources}} (which provides the bottom set of links) was an exact copy of {{ find sources}} at the time the copy was taken (or more exactly, when the module config was set up for it), this means that {{ find sources}} (or rather, it's module config) must have moved on since then. Checking the history of Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources we can see that indeed it was changed on October 17, when the google newspapers link was removed ( diff). That explains why all the other test cases that have nothing to do with the wrapper changes have been failing, like all the Auto archiving notice tests. Updating the Module config for general sources to match the other one by removing the "google newspapers" link should make all the failing tests pass again. Mathglot ( talk) 04:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Everything looks good on my end. Any other issues still in progress? - Wikmoz ( talk) 18:19, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
/nick YourWikipediaUserid
(Enter), then /msg NickServ HELP Register
; or go to See also
https://libera.chat/guides/registration. If you feel like looking into IRC to see what's what, and whether you think it's a good venue for this, that could help. I asked at #wikimedia-tech which would be the best channel, and someone suggested channel
#wikipedia-en but I just tried that, and it's so full I was shunted to an
#wikimedia-overflow, so we might want a smaller chat space than that one.
Mathglot (
talk)
00:11, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
When everything else looks good, the slightly tricky part is the cutover of the wrapper, and installation of {{ find general sources}} as part of the module.
Live template {{ find sources}} is currently a 107-byte template that just invokes the module, similar to {{ find video game sources}} (and now also {{ find medical sources}}; thanks, Wikmoz!). After cutover, {{ find sources}} will contain the current content of the wrapper template (currently in the sandbox) which does the autoproject detection and search domain override. But what about the original, 'vanilla' find_sources, where does that live, when the sandbox wrapper is cut over? That functionality is currently in two places: in {{ find sources}} (until cutover) and in {{ find general sources}} which nobody uses currently, and (except for one autodoc param to distinguish it) is currently a 100+ byte invocation of the Module, and just a duplicate of {{ find sources}}. So, the cutover is a bit like a round-robin move, where (the functionality of) current "find sources" moves to "find general sources", and "find sources/sandbox" moves (physically) to "find sources" enabling the new functionality.
Ideally these would happen simultaneously, and I have yet to confirm whether it's possible to do it without a very brief outage (a few minutes) of "find sources" functionality from the Talk header. I think so, by duplicating effort in the module where there are config submodules for both "find sources" and "find general sources", then cutting over the wrapper from /sandbox to "find sources" live, and then deleting all the "find sources" submodules which will no longer be needed. If a brief outage is preferable in order to save having to execute technical deletes, then the "find sources" configs can just be moved to "find general sources", which will leave invocations of "find sources" inoperative across the encyclopedia until the sandbox is moved into place.
There is an alternative approach that I don't recommend, which is to leave the "find sources" config in the module under the current name, and then code the {{ find general sources}} template to invoke the module via the "find sources" config. That would work, and would avoid an outage or having to rename or delete module configs. However, imho that would be very confusing, in particular, about the difference between "find sources" in template space and in module space, and why the names are apparently misaligned; I think that would confuse template editors forever after, and probably make it harder to upgrade the templates and modules afterward. So, I don't recommend this approach; separating out the name "find sources" going forward as belonging only to the wrapper which selects which source links domain should be provided, and "find general sources" as just one of several domains, no different from "medical" or "video", will make it far easier imho to upgrade the wrapper, the templates, and the module going forward.
The smoothest approach, with no outage and a seamless transition to new functionality, is to have duplicate submodule configs for "find sources" and "find general sources", cut over the wrapper, then delete the "find sources" configs at one's convenience, and that's the one I would vote for.
This is just a sneak preview to familiarize interested parties with what's coming, and I may have missed something, but that's the basic outline of the wrapper cutover issue, which when completed will finalize the implementation of the new Talk header/find-sources functionality. Mathglot ( talk) 19:48, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Oh, one bit I forgot: the {{ Talk header}} cutover: the {{ Talk header/sandbox}} has the new domain code ( diff), and also invokes {{ find sources/sandbox}} for testing. To cut over the Talk_header template, we need to keep the domain code, and drop the transclusion of the /sandbox version of find_sources. That should make the final transition easier than I thought. Mathglot ( talk) 20:21, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Launch plan. (Cutover has occurred; follow-up in progress...)
|
---|
This is the Launch plan for the addition of Dynamic find sources functionality to Template:Talk header: prep
FIND SOURCES: {{find sources}} ---- TALK HEADER: {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes}} ---- TALK HEADER (video): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=video}} TALK HEADER (medical): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=medical}} TALK HEADER (general): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=general}}
launchPerform the first 3 (or '2' if no config changes) steps as close together as practical:
rollbackt.b.a. post-launchIn case of a successful launch, then:
Sections on module config and rollback still t.b.a. Mathglot ( talk) 03:35, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
@ Wikmoz:, what's your timing like, coming up? Mathglot ( talk) 19:18, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Sdkb if you'd like to join us, we're just getting started at IRC channel #wikipedia-coffeehouse connect. Mathglot ( talk) 17:36, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Cutover of dynamic find-sources links with project autodetection and search-domain override completed successfully. Documentation updates, notifications, and other post-launch tasks are coming up next. Mathglot ( talk) 20:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
There was a missing piece in the immediate post-launch plan, namely, to check for incoming redirect links to {{ find sources}} and point them to {{ find general sources}}. There were 20 of them (now 19, after the fix for the bug reported below). Here they are: List of remaining redirects. These will have to all be adjusted. Mathglot ( talk) 02:47, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Please check the box when a template has been redirected to {{ find general sources}}: |
Mathglot ( talk) 02:55, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Fullpagename bug: (resolved) – titles with
paren disambig included in the search param
|
---|
Fullpagename bug: A bug in {{ find sources}} has been identified by User:Dream Focus at this discussion, concerning the links at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/House Hippo (2nd nomination). This should search for "House Hippo" but is currently searching for "Articles for deletion/House Hippo (2nd nomination)", i.e., it's taking FULLPAGENAME instead of SUBPAGENAME. Not sure if this is the template or the module config; if I can't figure it out quickly we will have to roll back. User:Wikmoz, are you around to help track this one down? Mathglot ( talk) 02:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
|
Paren disambig bug: (resolved) – parenthetical expression double-quoted and shouldn't be
|
---|
Paren disambig bug: sandbox double-quotes the entire title including parenthetical disambiguation, and doesn't strip the parens; {{ find general sources}} does the right thing, stripping parens and removing the disambig clause from the double-quoted part of the query:
(Live does the same thing.) Mathglot ( talk) 09:31, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
|
Missing redirect detection bug: (resolved) – Project Med redirects like WPMED not handled
|
---|
Missing redirect detection bug: This is a bug of omission, that manifests on a Talk page like
Talk:Lacosamide that belongs to project Medicine and has a TPH (Talk page header), but is showing "general" links instead of medical links. The reason for this is simple: the code on the Talk page uses the redirect
Template:WPMED instead of the code
Copied the sandbox of top_proj, which implements the fix to the missing redirect detection bug. Restested the 18 articles listed at the bottom of
test E-2a after launch, and all of them passed live. Declaring this bug |
I have notified WikiProject Medicine in the first public announcement about the launch, and have invited them to leave feedback about bugs, feature requests, and general questions here, or at WT:MED. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 08:14, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Forgot to add that I notified WP:WikiProject Video games later in November, and the notification got a bit of feedback, then fell silent and got archived. Presently, it can be found here. Mathglot ( talk) 04:20, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
Have started thinking about enhancements and deferred features, even though we're not quite ready for it yet. With respect to stacked lists, I was thinking about an additional kind of configurable option, which would define something a bit more fine-grained than the current brute force, top-to-bottom approach of "med first, then video, then general", which may feel even more brutish when we add more domains, like biography or military. We could have a stacking config (probably just a subtemplate) that would define how to handle multiple detected projects. E.g., 1. med + bio ⟶ stack both; 2. bio + mil ⟶ both; vg + med ⟶ med only; vg + bio ⟶ both; and so on. A refinement could be, specify which one is stacked on top (or what order, if 3 or more), irrespective of the order of WikiProjects found. Mathglot ( talk) 01:48, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Most talk page headers include a left-aligned icon. Currently, 'Find sources' is very helpful but also very easy to miss. Adding a small left-aligned icon would go a long way to ensuring editors find the links. I was picturing a magnifying glass (to suggest "search") in the foreground (for consistency across all 'Find sources' templates) and a domain-specific icon (rod of asclepius, video game controller, globe or stack of books) in the background.
In terms of layout, we could use a smaller icon like the one used here or here so the icon doesn't affect the template height. As an aside, it would be helpful if all templates used in Talk header had their icons standardized in terms of position and size but that's a project for another day.
Icons8 allows for free use of their icons in open source projects. Just searching within their "Color" theme icon collection, there are some great options. There's an overlay option that lets you see the following icons with a search icon overlaid.
- Wikmoz ( talk) 21:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
|type=notice
tmbox,
c:File:Information icon4.svg:
![]() | Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
![]() | Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · StatPearls · Trip · Wiley · WP Library |
@ Wikmoz:, now that medical is done (probably the hardest one) would your designer friend (mentioned in this Graphics Lab discussion) be able to do something similar for the icons for the 'general' and 'video games' icons in the smaller size and trying the eclipse gap thing?
Also, I'd like to think about {{ Biographical sources notice}} as well, which exists as a standalone template, and uses the Module code; that is, even though it's not currently interpreted by the wrapper, it's still available as a stand-alone. We haven't picked an image yet, and we'd be starting from scratch, but we could do another Graphics Lab request, leveraging the previous one that already has the loupe. There's something about the commons image with the book and the fountain pen that makes me think "biography" (maybe I'm thinking of Boswell, laboring over Life of Johnson by candlelight or something), but maybe you can find something better? Here are some more icon ideas online. Mathglot ( talk) 06:59, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources has been
nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk)
22:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
I increasingly find Library Genesis to be a very helpful search engine for academic papers, more so than Google Books. In particular, it excells at finding book reviews. Ex. compare [http:/blacklisted_domain_removed/scimag/?q=Groundswell.+Winning+in+a+World+Transformed+by+Social+Technologies LG] return hits and Google Scholar. I first noticed it few weeks ago while looking for reviews for this book I wrote an entry on. If anyone is concerned about legality, note that LG has been mentioned at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request (with a caution note) for quite a while now, with no objections/controversy. We could add a link to such note to the template through a tiny hperlink to address any related concerns. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
been planning on adding Sage and Cambridge Core. Any objections? ∯WBG converse 06:52, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't particularly have an issue with it, but I do want to just bring up for discussion the fact that the NYT is the only newspaper included with this template. While it is probably true that the NYT has the best claim to being the newspaper of record for the English speaking world, I'm saying that as an American, and I can imagine those in other English speaking countries objecting that the NYT is not the best source for them, and that perhaps another paper should be included, or that no specific paper should be included, so that Google News (a more dynamic way to find a quality source, but also not as curated) can be used instead. I guess my point is mainly that this template in some way implies that we're endorsing the NYT over every other newspaper, and while in a practical sense that's probably the reasonable thing to do for the situations this template is used for, we should at least have some discussion to establish a consensus. (Also, as a minor cosmetic note, NYT ought to be italicized, and I'd appreciate someone with template editing privileges making that fix.) - Sdkb ( talk) 05:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
I noticed the template's Google news search excludes this article, though the word 'wikipedia' does not seem to appear anywhere in it.
See: Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
I use Internet Archive all the time to look for sources, especially on old topics. Would it make sense to include a full-text search of archive.org on this template? AleatoryPonderings ( talk) 20:57, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Template:Find sources has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please italicize NYT
per
MOS:ITALICS, since it's an abbreviation of the name of a newspaper. {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk
01:47, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Italics should be used for the following types of names and titles, or abbreviations thereof:
- Major works of art and artifice, such as albums, books, video games, films, musicals, operas, symphonies, paintings, sculptures, newspapers,...
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Just a quick note that the Wikipedia Library link should point to https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/ rather than /partners, as the correct entry point for accessing content :) Samwalton9 (WMF) ( talk) 11:02, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Mathglot ( talk) 20:50, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The following is a brief summary of current consensus. Please feel free to edit this list if you disagree with anything or if something changes based on discussions happening elsewhere.
|
Development status
Launch features
Deferred feature backlog
Unresolved open issues
Last edited by: Wikmoz ( talk) 18:24, 6 November 2021 (UTC) |
The proposal at VPP to improve customization of this template was approved. This discussion is to track implementation, and to discuss any issues that may arise. Adding Wikmoz, and Sdkb; feel free to notify other interested users. Mathglot ( talk) 00:52, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
For starters, I thought we could talk about what we are implementing. Here are the four possible "find sources" templates (FSTs) so far:
Of these, I think it was clear we are implementing the wrapper which will choose between two, possibly three of them: B (bio) and G (gen; aka, the default template, that is: {{ find general sources}}[post implementation] = {{ find sources}}[currently]). Maybe also V, as that template existed prior to the VPP proposal, and has a clear WikiProject associated with it. Seemed like the sense was to maybe put off B (bio) to a later stage. Does that concur with everybody's impression? Mathglot ( talk) 01:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The other thing I think we decided was to go with an automatic, WikiProject-detection scheme, overridable by opt-in usage of a param, such as |search-domain=
or similar. - Mathglot - 01:36, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
{{Talk header|search_term=Medtronic|search_domain=general|archive_age=365|archive_bot=lowercase sigmabot III}}
An issue was raised about auto-detection in some cross-project topics, such as medical device companies, for which med-only links would be too restrictive, and we'd either want the G-links, or both sets. Wasn't clear to me whether we decided to deal with that issue in the first implementation, or only with refinement after the first one. Mathglot ( talk) 01:46, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Note: this page was previously a redirect to Module talk:Find sources. With the implementation of this proposal, and especially insofar as the wrapper template is concerned, the topic and interests of this talk page and the Module talk page diverge sufficiently that they have been uncoupled again. Once this implementation is complete, and any follow-up issues are taken care of, a discussion can be had at some future date as to whether it makes sense to merge the talk pages again. Mathglot ( talk) 00:55, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The wrapper is here: {{ Find sources/sandbox}}. It uses helper subtemplate {{ Find sources/top proj}} which probably needs a rename. There's a mocked up usage of the sandbox wrapper here: Talk:Cochlear Limited/Talk header test. Mathglot ( talk) 01:34, 17 October 2021 (UTC) updated by Mathglot ( talk) 01:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Explanation of some wrapper design considerations: the core of WikiProject autodetection was moved out of the wrapper sandbox to subtemplate {{ Find sources/top proj}} some time ago. Neither of these two templates is very long or that complex as far as nesting or squirrely code is concerned, but the concepts of what is going on functionally are a bit complex, and for the sake of future template editors I thought it best to divide the functionality this way. This localizes all of the project autodetection in subtemplate "top proj", while the wrapper concentrates on picking between project autodetect and search-domain override (and possibly other methods in the future).
Another design consideration targeting clarity and future maintainability is the liberal use of newlines and indentation in the wrapper and subtemplate wikicode for alignment of conditionals and switches, taking care that no unwanted white space is introduced into the output. This should also ease understanding of what's going on, and facilitate upgrades and maintenance going forward. I would hope that other editors would continue in the same vein, but that's not up to me, of course.
The name "top_proj" was chosen to suggest the fact that the "top priority" project is returned (not to be confused with the one closest to the top of the Talk page). This means that "top_proj" implements a pecking order among WikiProjects, based on which one is the "most important" and should trump the others if two or more of them appear on the same page. This order is currently: 1. Medicine, 2. Biography, 3. Video games. Note that top_proj *does* return the biography
token (if the article doesn't also belong to Proj Medicine) but the wrapper does not currently recognize 'biography' and will generate "general" source links in this case. This is by design and another benefit of the decoupling of project detection and wrapper domain choice, as the two do not need to be "in sync"; In this case, top_proj is "ahead" of the wrapper, and so if we decide to add biographical source links in a subsequent upgrade, only the wrapper will need to change. (That said, 'biography' should probably be swapped with 'video games', because currently an article which belongs to both 'Biography' and 'Video games' projects—such as
Brianna Wu—will return token 'biography', which the wrapper will ignore, and use the default 'general' links instead; swapping them would return video game links instead.) It's not impossible that other methods of choosing among WikiProjects could be implemented in the future ("highest_proj", or whatever), and in particular, stacked link sets based on multiple projects
has been discussed as a future upgrade possibility, as is noted in the
#Status summary below.
Probably some of this information should be copied someplace (doc pages?) for the benefit of future template editors, but I wanted to record it now while it was still fresh in my mind. @ Wikmoz and Sdkb: (I try to use pings judiciously, but if you wish to stop being pinged to this page because you're already watching it, or maybe only when I update something other than the last section, lmk and I'll try to observe your preferences.) Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 19:34, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Positional search_terms bug: Wikmoz identified a problem in testing, where use of search_terms beyond the first one are not handled by template {{ find medical sources}} (it wasn't designed to; ditto 'general' and 'biographical', in the same way). The reason for the problem is identified, and two approaches are possible. Details at #Final test and rollout planning below. Mathglot ( talk) 18:38, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Some other issues were mentioned or discussed, either at the VPP or separately. We could list these here, and if it affects this implementation, discuss as needed.
I wrote up a subtemplate that could be used as part of the implementation of stacked lists going forward. {{ Find sources/proj list}} examines the talk page for a given page (default: the page it is on), and returns a CSV string with a set of tokens indicating which projects it found. If more than one project is found, it returns a token for each one. (It currently isn't really a csv, because it includes a trailing comma, but that could be trimmed if desired.)
{{Find sources/proj list|Marie Curie}}
= medicine,biography,military,To implement stacked lists, the wrapper would get the tokens, and then generate the {{find * sources}} up to however many are desired, substituting each token for the asterisk. Mathglot ( talk) 21:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
{{ General sources notice}} is part of a suite of such templates which includes {{ medical sources notice}}, {{ biographical sources notice}}, and {{ Military sources notice}}. Strictly speaking, these are outside the scope of the wrapper template and the {{ Talk header}} template, but are a closely related adjunct to them. I see a few use cases for them:
|hide_find_sources=yes
to turn off automatic links in the header, you could choose which find sources domain(s) you wanted, and place them lower (or higher) in the sequence of banners appearing on the talk page.{{find * sources}}
series which can be used inline without highlighting or a new paragraph, whereas the boxed version sets it off visually and in block mode.Currently, the "notice" templates include a small icon at the left, and I was planning on tailoring them to the domain, so that medical notice gets the rod of Asclepius, video would get a little video cam icon, and so on, as an additional visual signal to finding the right set. However, the "find sources" links that are generated by the {{ talk header}} template do not have such icons, so there is a mismatch in how they are handling it currently. I'd like to see the icon retained, including added to the Talk header template (possibly as a background image left, so it doesn't take up any horizontal space) but I suspect consensus would be against that. Mathglot ( talk) 21:26, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
{{
Sources notice|domain=med}}
that works the way you suggest.
Mathglot (
talk)
02:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)I'm frankly not sure what must, or should be ported or changed in the module, once the template-based changes are live and working to our satisfaction. I don't think we have to decide that now, but if there are issues that ought to be thought about while doing the template-based implementation, we can discuss it here. Mathglot ( talk) 01:36, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm seeing multiple testing issues which may be artefacts of the testing environment and interfere with normal testing. I'm going to try to identify them here, and see which ones are real and which aren't, show how to reproduce them, see if there's a workaround, and analyze whether it's a real problem or not.
These issues may show up differently depending on the test environment used:
In brief, I'm seeing tests that fail in Special:ExpandTemplates, may work in Template:Find_sources/testcases, but fail in the test cases in Template:Talk header/testcases but are okay in in situ tests. [a] Mathglot ( talk) 22:53, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The first thing I noticed, is that some environments like #1 (ExpandTemplates) got into a strange loop trying to expand {{ Talk header}} and displaying dozens or hundreds of archive links that didn't exist, and finally ran into a script timer limit, and stopped expanding the template, so that the "find sources" links would never get shown at all.
{{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
in
Special:ExpandTemplates{{
Talk header|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
dies in the same way.|noarchive=yes
: Invoke {{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
The test above that fails in Special:ExpandTemplates passes in an in situ test at Talk:Marie Curie.
{{
Talk header/sandbox|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
in a)
Special:ExpandTemplates, and b) in
Talk:Marie Curie (by editing it and using Preview mode)|demospace=
):
{{
Talk header/sandbox|search_term1=Marie Curie|search_term2=radium|search_term3=Nobel}}
– {{
find medical sources|Marie Curie|radium|Nobel}}
:Conclusion: the ExpandTemplate tool doesn't reliably display the /sandbox version of {{ Talk header}} for some reason, and we should do in situ tests for this instead. (A summary of this should be added to Template:Talk header/testcases as well.)
more coming...
Notes
"ExpandTemplates" -wikipedia
, whereas the live version it searches "Marie Curie" -wikipedia
.
{{
Talk header|demospace=1|search_term1=Marie Curie}}
(no sandbox) in
Special:ExpandTemplates and got the same endless archive list timeout error. I agree that the ExpandTemplate quirks aren't a blocker so long as things look good in situ. -
Wikmoz (
talk)
04:07, 30 October 2021 (UTC)@
Sdkb and
Wikmoz: I've added changes to the wrapper in {{
find sources/sandbox}} to include project autodetect override via the |domain=
param (alias: |search-domain=
), and modified {{
Talk header/sandbox}} to use the find_sources/sandbox (for now; will need updating at cutover to the main template) and to pass the domain param through. Also, the test cases at
Template:Talk header/testcases have been updated, and
Template:Find sources/testcases has had a major expansion. (Both still new and unchecked so far, so may be buggy or with unclear documentation.)
Am thinking a few days to check it out via discreet testing, then cut both over at the same time, and notify
WP:MED of the release, so they can watch for any bugs or anomalies. For right now, you can test in Preview mode, or alter the Talk header in a few live articles that are isolated or not viewed very much; just change the current Talk header invocation to the sandbox version ({{Talk header/sandbox}}
) with or without the |domain=
param.
Example: to allow Talk:Giardiasis to do WikiProject detection, change the first line to:
{{Talk header/sandbox}}
Expected result: medical source links are shown in the header.
To force
Talk:Giardiasis to ignore override WikiProjects, change the first line to:
{{Talk header/sandbox|domain=general}}
– (or even, |domain=video
)Expected result: ignores the project, shows general links (or video links), as specified by the param. For more details, see the test cases pages.
Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 07:29, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
|2=term2
and |3=term3
and |4=term4
and |5=term5
is equivalent to |2=term2 term3 term4 term5
when doing a search for them.Bug: An article which belongs to both 'biography' and 'video' projects displays only 'general' sources.
Also, probably need to add some 'pecking order' test cases; i.e., if something is in both 'med' and 'video' which set of links is shown? (This whole issue may go away when stacked links is implemented, or maybe it morphs into which set is displayed on top.) Mathglot ( talk) 18:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Bug?: It looks like there's some logic somewhere to remove "Talk:" or anything preceding a colon from the page name when generating the search term. You can see the difference in Template:Find sources/testcases. Maybe there are wildcards in production that are not in the sandbox? Visible here as well:
Not a significant issue but at a minimum, worth tracking if it's not easy to fix. - Wikmoz ( talk) 18:36, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Bug: well, more of a config issue than a bug, really: the links generated by the live template and the sandbox are slightly different: one has "newspapers" link; you can see this in the example you added above, where the sandbox version includes "newspapers" but the live one does not. Since template {{ find general sources}} (which provides the bottom set of links) was an exact copy of {{ find sources}} at the time the copy was taken (or more exactly, when the module config was set up for it), this means that {{ find sources}} (or rather, it's module config) must have moved on since then. Checking the history of Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources we can see that indeed it was changed on October 17, when the google newspapers link was removed ( diff). That explains why all the other test cases that have nothing to do with the wrapper changes have been failing, like all the Auto archiving notice tests. Updating the Module config for general sources to match the other one by removing the "google newspapers" link should make all the failing tests pass again. Mathglot ( talk) 04:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Everything looks good on my end. Any other issues still in progress? - Wikmoz ( talk) 18:19, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
/nick YourWikipediaUserid
(Enter), then /msg NickServ HELP Register
; or go to See also
https://libera.chat/guides/registration. If you feel like looking into IRC to see what's what, and whether you think it's a good venue for this, that could help. I asked at #wikimedia-tech which would be the best channel, and someone suggested channel
#wikipedia-en but I just tried that, and it's so full I was shunted to an
#wikimedia-overflow, so we might want a smaller chat space than that one.
Mathglot (
talk)
00:11, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
When everything else looks good, the slightly tricky part is the cutover of the wrapper, and installation of {{ find general sources}} as part of the module.
Live template {{ find sources}} is currently a 107-byte template that just invokes the module, similar to {{ find video game sources}} (and now also {{ find medical sources}}; thanks, Wikmoz!). After cutover, {{ find sources}} will contain the current content of the wrapper template (currently in the sandbox) which does the autoproject detection and search domain override. But what about the original, 'vanilla' find_sources, where does that live, when the sandbox wrapper is cut over? That functionality is currently in two places: in {{ find sources}} (until cutover) and in {{ find general sources}} which nobody uses currently, and (except for one autodoc param to distinguish it) is currently a 100+ byte invocation of the Module, and just a duplicate of {{ find sources}}. So, the cutover is a bit like a round-robin move, where (the functionality of) current "find sources" moves to "find general sources", and "find sources/sandbox" moves (physically) to "find sources" enabling the new functionality.
Ideally these would happen simultaneously, and I have yet to confirm whether it's possible to do it without a very brief outage (a few minutes) of "find sources" functionality from the Talk header. I think so, by duplicating effort in the module where there are config submodules for both "find sources" and "find general sources", then cutting over the wrapper from /sandbox to "find sources" live, and then deleting all the "find sources" submodules which will no longer be needed. If a brief outage is preferable in order to save having to execute technical deletes, then the "find sources" configs can just be moved to "find general sources", which will leave invocations of "find sources" inoperative across the encyclopedia until the sandbox is moved into place.
There is an alternative approach that I don't recommend, which is to leave the "find sources" config in the module under the current name, and then code the {{ find general sources}} template to invoke the module via the "find sources" config. That would work, and would avoid an outage or having to rename or delete module configs. However, imho that would be very confusing, in particular, about the difference between "find sources" in template space and in module space, and why the names are apparently misaligned; I think that would confuse template editors forever after, and probably make it harder to upgrade the templates and modules afterward. So, I don't recommend this approach; separating out the name "find sources" going forward as belonging only to the wrapper which selects which source links domain should be provided, and "find general sources" as just one of several domains, no different from "medical" or "video", will make it far easier imho to upgrade the wrapper, the templates, and the module going forward.
The smoothest approach, with no outage and a seamless transition to new functionality, is to have duplicate submodule configs for "find sources" and "find general sources", cut over the wrapper, then delete the "find sources" configs at one's convenience, and that's the one I would vote for.
This is just a sneak preview to familiarize interested parties with what's coming, and I may have missed something, but that's the basic outline of the wrapper cutover issue, which when completed will finalize the implementation of the new Talk header/find-sources functionality. Mathglot ( talk) 19:48, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Oh, one bit I forgot: the {{ Talk header}} cutover: the {{ Talk header/sandbox}} has the new domain code ( diff), and also invokes {{ find sources/sandbox}} for testing. To cut over the Talk_header template, we need to keep the domain code, and drop the transclusion of the /sandbox version of find_sources. That should make the final transition easier than I thought. Mathglot ( talk) 20:21, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Launch plan. (Cutover has occurred; follow-up in progress...)
|
---|
This is the Launch plan for the addition of Dynamic find sources functionality to Template:Talk header: prep
FIND SOURCES: {{find sources}} ---- TALK HEADER: {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes}} ---- TALK HEADER (video): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=video}} TALK HEADER (medical): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=medical}} TALK HEADER (general): {{talk header|demospace=1|noarchive=yes|domain=general}}
launchPerform the first 3 (or '2' if no config changes) steps as close together as practical:
rollbackt.b.a. post-launchIn case of a successful launch, then:
Sections on module config and rollback still t.b.a. Mathglot ( talk) 03:35, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
@ Wikmoz:, what's your timing like, coming up? Mathglot ( talk) 19:18, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Sdkb if you'd like to join us, we're just getting started at IRC channel #wikipedia-coffeehouse connect. Mathglot ( talk) 17:36, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Cutover of dynamic find-sources links with project autodetection and search-domain override completed successfully. Documentation updates, notifications, and other post-launch tasks are coming up next. Mathglot ( talk) 20:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
There was a missing piece in the immediate post-launch plan, namely, to check for incoming redirect links to {{ find sources}} and point them to {{ find general sources}}. There were 20 of them (now 19, after the fix for the bug reported below). Here they are: List of remaining redirects. These will have to all be adjusted. Mathglot ( talk) 02:47, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Please check the box when a template has been redirected to {{ find general sources}}: |
Mathglot ( talk) 02:55, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Fullpagename bug: (resolved) – titles with
paren disambig included in the search param
|
---|
Fullpagename bug: A bug in {{ find sources}} has been identified by User:Dream Focus at this discussion, concerning the links at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/House Hippo (2nd nomination). This should search for "House Hippo" but is currently searching for "Articles for deletion/House Hippo (2nd nomination)", i.e., it's taking FULLPAGENAME instead of SUBPAGENAME. Not sure if this is the template or the module config; if I can't figure it out quickly we will have to roll back. User:Wikmoz, are you around to help track this one down? Mathglot ( talk) 02:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
|
Paren disambig bug: (resolved) – parenthetical expression double-quoted and shouldn't be
|
---|
Paren disambig bug: sandbox double-quotes the entire title including parenthetical disambiguation, and doesn't strip the parens; {{ find general sources}} does the right thing, stripping parens and removing the disambig clause from the double-quoted part of the query:
(Live does the same thing.) Mathglot ( talk) 09:31, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
|
Missing redirect detection bug: (resolved) – Project Med redirects like WPMED not handled
|
---|
Missing redirect detection bug: This is a bug of omission, that manifests on a Talk page like
Talk:Lacosamide that belongs to project Medicine and has a TPH (Talk page header), but is showing "general" links instead of medical links. The reason for this is simple: the code on the Talk page uses the redirect
Template:WPMED instead of the code
Copied the sandbox of top_proj, which implements the fix to the missing redirect detection bug. Restested the 18 articles listed at the bottom of
test E-2a after launch, and all of them passed live. Declaring this bug |
I have notified WikiProject Medicine in the first public announcement about the launch, and have invited them to leave feedback about bugs, feature requests, and general questions here, or at WT:MED. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 08:14, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Forgot to add that I notified WP:WikiProject Video games later in November, and the notification got a bit of feedback, then fell silent and got archived. Presently, it can be found here. Mathglot ( talk) 04:20, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
Have started thinking about enhancements and deferred features, even though we're not quite ready for it yet. With respect to stacked lists, I was thinking about an additional kind of configurable option, which would define something a bit more fine-grained than the current brute force, top-to-bottom approach of "med first, then video, then general", which may feel even more brutish when we add more domains, like biography or military. We could have a stacking config (probably just a subtemplate) that would define how to handle multiple detected projects. E.g., 1. med + bio ⟶ stack both; 2. bio + mil ⟶ both; vg + med ⟶ med only; vg + bio ⟶ both; and so on. A refinement could be, specify which one is stacked on top (or what order, if 3 or more), irrespective of the order of WikiProjects found. Mathglot ( talk) 01:48, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Most talk page headers include a left-aligned icon. Currently, 'Find sources' is very helpful but also very easy to miss. Adding a small left-aligned icon would go a long way to ensuring editors find the links. I was picturing a magnifying glass (to suggest "search") in the foreground (for consistency across all 'Find sources' templates) and a domain-specific icon (rod of asclepius, video game controller, globe or stack of books) in the background.
In terms of layout, we could use a smaller icon like the one used here or here so the icon doesn't affect the template height. As an aside, it would be helpful if all templates used in Talk header had their icons standardized in terms of position and size but that's a project for another day.
Icons8 allows for free use of their icons in open source projects. Just searching within their "Color" theme icon collection, there are some great options. There's an overlay option that lets you see the following icons with a search icon overlaid.
- Wikmoz ( talk) 21:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
|type=notice
tmbox,
c:File:Information icon4.svg:
![]() | Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
![]() | Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · StatPearls · Trip · Wiley · WP Library |
@ Wikmoz:, now that medical is done (probably the hardest one) would your designer friend (mentioned in this Graphics Lab discussion) be able to do something similar for the icons for the 'general' and 'video games' icons in the smaller size and trying the eclipse gap thing?
Also, I'd like to think about {{ Biographical sources notice}} as well, which exists as a standalone template, and uses the Module code; that is, even though it's not currently interpreted by the wrapper, it's still available as a stand-alone. We haven't picked an image yet, and we'd be starting from scratch, but we could do another Graphics Lab request, leveraging the previous one that already has the loupe. There's something about the commons image with the book and the fountain pen that makes me think "biography" (maybe I'm thinking of Boswell, laboring over Life of Johnson by candlelight or something), but maybe you can find something better? Here are some more icon ideas online. Mathglot ( talk) 06:59, 31 December 2021 (UTC)