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This is a proposal to drop the four archiving params (a.k.a. bot-notice params) |bot=
, |age=
, |units=
and |minthreadsleft=
. We can get the same information from the MiszaBot/config with more accuracy without these four params, and at the same time, generate a bot notice for all the pages that have a Talk page header but currently lack these params.
Up till now, the four archive-related params have been responsible for the bot notice seen optionally below the archive search box, and still are in override mode. However, they only control the notice, and do not affect whether or how archiving is actually carried out on the page, which is instead specified by template User:MiszaBot/config. In fact, the template bot-notice params and the MiszaBot config often get out of sync, leading to a misleading notice displayed in the Talk page header.
I've just released a new version of Template:Talk header which generates the bot notice below the search box automatically without parameters; any page having a MiszaBot/config and lacking the bot-notice params will now show the notice. However, if both a MiszaBot/config *and* bot notice-params are present, then the latter act as an override, and in many cases this means that the correct values determined by the new template are overridden by incorrect or out-of-sync user-supplied bot notice params. Pages that formerly had no bot notice, now have them if they have archiving configured; for example, see Talk:2017 or Talk:Traditional marriage. lots more examples here.
I don't currently see a reason to keep the four bot-notice params |bot=
, |age=
, |units=
and |minthreadsleft=
, and I think they should all be deleted; 1) because they are no longer needed, and 2) in order to stop generating misleading bot notices. We should just let the template calculate the notice. Perhaps there might be a reason to sometimes suppress the bot notice; in that case we should replace the four params with a new one: |bot-notice=none
. Another reason to keep the four params, might be if there are other archiving schemes currently in use that employ some configuration other than MiszaBot/config or Cluebot III's config; in that case, either the template should be upgraded to recognize the other schemes, or we should just keep the params for those cases. Feedback sought and appreciated.
Mathglot (
talk) 04:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC) updated by
Mathglot (
talk) 08:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: Would it be worthwhile to add this functionality to Template:Archives as well? Tollens ( talk) 23:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
Seems fine so long as it works as advertised for both bot archival templates. Automates a step that is otherwise easy to forget when archiving needs to be tweaked and no real downsides. I presume if there were a case where the params had been deliberately kept blank for some reason, the auto-population would have already drawn a complaint. 184.152.68.190 ( talk) 03:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Support - yes, if you want to contribute by writing a script/bot to get the information straight from the source, letting us bypass a manual element that mostly introduces a source of errors, this is of course very welcome! CapnZapp ( talk) 12:00, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
How about ClueBot III? Graham87 ( talk) 04:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This sounds like a solid improvement. It's too bad we didn't initially think of it when merging in auto archive notice back in 2021, as it may generate a few complaints about watchlist clutter, but I think it'll be worth it to remove the duplicative information, so I support. Sdkb talk 05:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
I think there is value in displaying such data - but they'd need to be the actual archive data and thus be displayed from User:MiszaBot/config. So yeah, remove 'em from this template. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 07:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This was supposed to run three weeks according to the notice pointing here from WP:VPT, but for some reason, the section there got archived, even with a {{ DNAU}} in place. But it was there for over two weeks, and no objection was registered. Here's what it would take, imho, to drop the four bot notice params from the {{ Talk page header}} template:
|archive_bot=
, |archive_age=
, |archive_units=
, |minthreadsleft=
and their aliases from the template code, except for the unknown parameter invocation at the bottom. The effect will be that Talk pages currently containing these params will begin displaying data directly from the config params (if any) and stop overriding the actual configured values with the values given in the params. Pages having no archiving will stop displaying false notices. The parameters will still exist, but have no effect.The first three should be done whenever we are ready, which I think is now; unless there is some objection. The last three are optional, but it makes sense to do them, and will declutter the template code and the doc. The section above on § minimum number of sections archived, and in general, anything regarding what wording to use in the notice is completely independent from dropping the bot params, and the two processes may continue independently without taking the other into consideration. Probably subsections 3 and 4 should be broken out into a new, top-level discussion section about new wording, because they aren't really related to the dynamic bot notice topic at all. ( edit conflict) Mathglot ( talk) 03:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't really understand what is being proposed here, what has been implemented so far, what will be implemented in the future, etc.
I would strongly recommend that this template:
In general, any very widely used talk page template should strongly prioritize eliminating, hiding, and minimizing the space use and distraction of non-essential information. Adding gratuitous configuration metadata is a reader hostile regression. – jacobolus (t) 22:06, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
One thing that becomes evident with this change, is the somewhat less friendly units used by Cluebot; how long is 2880 hours, anyway? This is not a big deal, but as long as we are talking about these changes, it would be an easy fix to display the hourly total as days (approx. days, decimal days, rounded days; preference?) if it exceeds some threshold number of hours. I think after 96 hours, I pretty much lose it, not sure about anybody else. If you want to see some live examples, check out the bot notice at any of these Talk pages which all use Cluebot: Talk:The Exorcist, Talk:List of colors, Talk:Toronto, Talk:Switzerland, Talk:Macedonia. We could display days in the notice, and exact hours in the Tooltip, if desired. Mathglot ( talk) 08:48, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
For archiving bots that use hours as the default units, they are converted to days, rounded to the nearest half-dayThis I take to mean ANY number is rounded to a multiple of 12 (half a day). I would suggest a more conservative start. Do not round any hours-number lower than 72 for starters, then let consensus drive rounding of lower numbers. The other way round assumes we will revisit the subject later. I think now is the only time you will hear voices to avoid rounding smaller numbers, so please consider this to be the consensus you'll get. CapnZapp ( talk) 09:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Related to this, there is one nugget of information you can configure the archive bots with, but wasn't possible to convey through the templates:
If you tell the bots to not archive until, say, 2 sections are eligible, then its possible for users to not understand why the bot isn't archiving.
Say there are 5 talk sections. All are older than the number of days specified. But the settings say "keep at least four sections and only archive two or more sections at a time." This means no archiving is done for now, since you need a sixth new talk discussion in order to archive two of the stale discussions and still leave four on the page.
(PS. Configuring the bot to keep 4 sections is very useful since the table of content is per default only generated on pages with four sections. Configuring the bot to only archive two sections at a time is relatively useful to avoid cluttering the history page with lots of archival edits, which can come across as the bot being "too aggressive" in its cleaning)
Proposal: tweak this new wondrous automatic display of the actual bot settings to also tell the user if the bot will only archive two or more sections at a time. Specifically when |minthreadstoarchive=2
(or more). Cheers
CapnZapp (
talk) 12:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
is currently displayed in the tooltip (along with the specific bot that does the archiving). It's not ideal, but when we designed the merge, keeping the display very concise was a top concern (for good reason, given the tendency for talk page banner bloat), so that's what we went with. Thinking in terms of a talk page user, I can see why it might be useful to know the auto-archiving period, but it's harder to envision reasons why it would be helpful to know the minthreadstoarchive or the specific bot that does the archiving.
Sdkb
talk 20:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)|minthreadstoarchive=2
So a reader can be left completely bewildered and not understand why the bot "isn't working" when it isn't archiving the oldest section once a sixth discussion is started, when in fact, it IS working: to keep down the number of archival edits; it will only step in once a seventh discussion is started, if it can then archive two discussions in one sweep. It's just the information that is inadequate. This is the same as when the talk header template first was reworked - support for every param except |minthreadstoarchive=
. Unless there's something strange going on and I don't see what you guys are seeing? (I'm using legacy Vector if that matters) Cheers
CapnZapp (
talk) 09:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
, but as I said above, I'll be skeptical of its value (and more so the more prominent the display).
Sdkb
talk 16:29, 2 March 2024 (UTC)You are claiming |minthreadstoarchive=
is currently displayed in the tooltip. I don't see it. I am not asking for this parameter to appear in the template. Just the tooltip text. I don't see why this could be controversial or why I need to start a new discussion or create a mockup? (Unless you mean simple wording along the lines of, still using Gravity as my example; "Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by lowercase sigmabot III after 120 days of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving.") I'm simply thinking that since you're already editing the relevant code and you are the editors with the relevant knowledge (if you can extract the other params you can extract this one), why not suggest fixing this once and for all...
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 90 days of inactivity when more than 4 threads are present? That's what we're referring to. Cheers, Sdkb talk 00:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
parameter set.
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)|minthreadstoarchive=
and not merely |minthreadsleft=
which Talk header have had support for a while now. I think I have been consistently using minthreadstoarchive in my request but feel free to point out if I have accidentally mentioned a different parameter.
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
"Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by lowercase sigmabot III after 120 days of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving."(emphasis mine). Tollens ( talk) 21:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=2
I would like the tooltip to say something along the lines of "...if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving". As stated previously! I cannot do more than make sure I am using the right parameter name. I cannot help if people read that as referring to other parameters? Again, if y'all have any advice on how I can be more clear please advise - I thought I was crystal clear but apparently not so?
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
This is developed and now in test mode. I tweaked the wording slightly which seemed to flow better. Here's a summary of status and pages involved:
More eyeballs and more tests are needed; this is needless to say a highly visible template and we need to test the new functionality, as well as regression to ensure nothing is broken before going live. I need to set this aside for a while, so any help appreciated. Add tests directly to the test page {{ Talk header/testcases4}}, and please examine or run regression tests on the first three testcase pages as well; please note what works/doesn't below. Doc on page testcases4 is still thin; feel free to adjust as needed, and if there is anything inscrutable, please lmk. Mathglot ( talk) 02:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Was just poking around your new test cases, and found a new one at
Talk:Hurricane Florence with minthreadstoarchive=7. It doesn't test the new code path, because the config defines the archive names as using the date style, and {{
Talk header}} doesn't display anything for that case. But, we still have access to all the config params and if we wanted, we *could* still display the bot notice in that case, maybe even in plain text not as a tooltip, as a way for Talk header to display *something* even if it can't show the links. For that matter, it wouldn't be that hard to reconstitute the actual archive names based on parsing the |Archive=
param, but this is sounding more and more like a new proposal and off-topic with what we are testing here, so I think I'll drop this for now. I just wanted to get that out there, before I forgot about it, so we can take it up again if we want later after the dust has settled on current stuff.
Mathglot (
talk) 02:15, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Just to chime in regarding the cutoff for rounding ClueBot: it appears the code is using 24 hours. Only User:Novem Linguae suggested this. I have suggested 72 hours instead. Nobody has objected, but also, your response so far has been "it's incredibly easy to change it to any figure that comes out of consensus here" which is nice, but also kind of ignores my message. How about doing that which is so incredibly easy, and setting the number to 72 before finalizing testing, and then waiting for consensus to change it? CapnZapp ( talk) 21:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Note: the test code in the sandbox for adding this functionality has been removed in order to attend to a more important issue (see § Broken case below). The change will need to be re-added and retested in the sandbox. before moving ahead. Mathglot ( talk) 06:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Nothing is producing an expression error, something about a comma somehow getting into an expression (originally posted at User talk:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis § Nothing is wrong). Aidan9382 ( talk) 17:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
content of the Cluebot config at
Talk:Nothing
|
---|
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis |archiveprefix=Talk:Nothing/Archive |format= %%i |age=15000 |maxarchsize=150000 |numberstart=2 |archivebox=yes |box-advert=yes }} |
Test archive bot parser for Talk:Nothing page via ExpandTemplates
| ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Set Context title to Test [[Template:Talk header/archivebotparse]]: * bot: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|bot}} * age: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|age}} * age (aliased): {{Th/abp|age}} * age rounded-a: {{Th/abp|age|round=y}} * age rounded-b: {{Th/abp|age|r=y}} * units: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|units}} * minkeepthreads {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|minkeepthreads}}
|
|round=y
. So I suspect the problem is somewhere in here;Parser code snippet to investigate
|
---|
|age = {{#if: {{{round|{{{r|}}}}}} | {{#ifexpr: {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} > 24<!-- --> | {{#expr: {{round|2*{{#expr: {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} / 24}}|0}} / 2}} <!-- --> | {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} <!-- --> }} <!-- -->| {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} <!-- -->}} |
Convenience notice: A situation arose with a user who has two archive bot configs on his Talk page. The automatic bot notice generation feature of Template:Archives failed to work properly in this case, because it was only designed to look for one bot config per page. The bot parser subtemplate has been modified to handle this case and is in sandbox testing now; details here. When it is completed and released, Template:Talk header will automatically pick up this change, and begin working correctly for pages with multiple bot configs that use the same bot. For the very limited number of Talk pages that use two different archival bots, only the first one will be reported automatically and a further upgrade would be required if we want to handle both. Mathglot ( talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Talk header template. |
|
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
Template:Talk header is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
documentation to add usage notes or
categories.
Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. Functionality of the template can be checked using test cases. |
If you are new to editing Wikipedia, you might be on the wrong page. This page is not meant for general questions or discussions about articles. This page is specifically for discussions about the Wikipedia page Template:Talk header. To discuss an article, please use that article's talk page instead. For help with using and editing Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Teahouse. |
This template was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This template was considered for merging with Template:Vital article on 17 May 2023. The result of the discussion was "Incorporate {{ Vital article}}'s information into the {{ WikiProject banner shell}} area". |
This is a proposal to drop the four archiving params (a.k.a. bot-notice params) |bot=
, |age=
, |units=
and |minthreadsleft=
. We can get the same information from the MiszaBot/config with more accuracy without these four params, and at the same time, generate a bot notice for all the pages that have a Talk page header but currently lack these params.
Up till now, the four archive-related params have been responsible for the bot notice seen optionally below the archive search box, and still are in override mode. However, they only control the notice, and do not affect whether or how archiving is actually carried out on the page, which is instead specified by template User:MiszaBot/config. In fact, the template bot-notice params and the MiszaBot config often get out of sync, leading to a misleading notice displayed in the Talk page header.
I've just released a new version of Template:Talk header which generates the bot notice below the search box automatically without parameters; any page having a MiszaBot/config and lacking the bot-notice params will now show the notice. However, if both a MiszaBot/config *and* bot notice-params are present, then the latter act as an override, and in many cases this means that the correct values determined by the new template are overridden by incorrect or out-of-sync user-supplied bot notice params. Pages that formerly had no bot notice, now have them if they have archiving configured; for example, see Talk:2017 or Talk:Traditional marriage. lots more examples here.
I don't currently see a reason to keep the four bot-notice params |bot=
, |age=
, |units=
and |minthreadsleft=
, and I think they should all be deleted; 1) because they are no longer needed, and 2) in order to stop generating misleading bot notices. We should just let the template calculate the notice. Perhaps there might be a reason to sometimes suppress the bot notice; in that case we should replace the four params with a new one: |bot-notice=none
. Another reason to keep the four params, might be if there are other archiving schemes currently in use that employ some configuration other than MiszaBot/config or Cluebot III's config; in that case, either the template should be upgraded to recognize the other schemes, or we should just keep the params for those cases. Feedback sought and appreciated.
Mathglot (
talk) 04:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC) updated by
Mathglot (
talk) 08:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: Would it be worthwhile to add this functionality to Template:Archives as well? Tollens ( talk) 23:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
Seems fine so long as it works as advertised for both bot archival templates. Automates a step that is otherwise easy to forget when archiving needs to be tweaked and no real downsides. I presume if there were a case where the params had been deliberately kept blank for some reason, the auto-population would have already drawn a complaint. 184.152.68.190 ( talk) 03:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Support - yes, if you want to contribute by writing a script/bot to get the information straight from the source, letting us bypass a manual element that mostly introduces a source of errors, this is of course very welcome! CapnZapp ( talk) 12:00, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
How about ClueBot III? Graham87 ( talk) 04:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This sounds like a solid improvement. It's too bad we didn't initially think of it when merging in auto archive notice back in 2021, as it may generate a few complaints about watchlist clutter, but I think it'll be worth it to remove the duplicative information, so I support. Sdkb talk 05:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
I think there is value in displaying such data - but they'd need to be the actual archive data and thus be displayed from User:MiszaBot/config. So yeah, remove 'em from this template. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 07:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This was supposed to run three weeks according to the notice pointing here from WP:VPT, but for some reason, the section there got archived, even with a {{ DNAU}} in place. But it was there for over two weeks, and no objection was registered. Here's what it would take, imho, to drop the four bot notice params from the {{ Talk page header}} template:
|archive_bot=
, |archive_age=
, |archive_units=
, |minthreadsleft=
and their aliases from the template code, except for the unknown parameter invocation at the bottom. The effect will be that Talk pages currently containing these params will begin displaying data directly from the config params (if any) and stop overriding the actual configured values with the values given in the params. Pages having no archiving will stop displaying false notices. The parameters will still exist, but have no effect.The first three should be done whenever we are ready, which I think is now; unless there is some objection. The last three are optional, but it makes sense to do them, and will declutter the template code and the doc. The section above on § minimum number of sections archived, and in general, anything regarding what wording to use in the notice is completely independent from dropping the bot params, and the two processes may continue independently without taking the other into consideration. Probably subsections 3 and 4 should be broken out into a new, top-level discussion section about new wording, because they aren't really related to the dynamic bot notice topic at all. ( edit conflict) Mathglot ( talk) 03:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't really understand what is being proposed here, what has been implemented so far, what will be implemented in the future, etc.
I would strongly recommend that this template:
In general, any very widely used talk page template should strongly prioritize eliminating, hiding, and minimizing the space use and distraction of non-essential information. Adding gratuitous configuration metadata is a reader hostile regression. – jacobolus (t) 22:06, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
One thing that becomes evident with this change, is the somewhat less friendly units used by Cluebot; how long is 2880 hours, anyway? This is not a big deal, but as long as we are talking about these changes, it would be an easy fix to display the hourly total as days (approx. days, decimal days, rounded days; preference?) if it exceeds some threshold number of hours. I think after 96 hours, I pretty much lose it, not sure about anybody else. If you want to see some live examples, check out the bot notice at any of these Talk pages which all use Cluebot: Talk:The Exorcist, Talk:List of colors, Talk:Toronto, Talk:Switzerland, Talk:Macedonia. We could display days in the notice, and exact hours in the Tooltip, if desired. Mathglot ( talk) 08:48, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
For archiving bots that use hours as the default units, they are converted to days, rounded to the nearest half-dayThis I take to mean ANY number is rounded to a multiple of 12 (half a day). I would suggest a more conservative start. Do not round any hours-number lower than 72 for starters, then let consensus drive rounding of lower numbers. The other way round assumes we will revisit the subject later. I think now is the only time you will hear voices to avoid rounding smaller numbers, so please consider this to be the consensus you'll get. CapnZapp ( talk) 09:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Related to this, there is one nugget of information you can configure the archive bots with, but wasn't possible to convey through the templates:
If you tell the bots to not archive until, say, 2 sections are eligible, then its possible for users to not understand why the bot isn't archiving.
Say there are 5 talk sections. All are older than the number of days specified. But the settings say "keep at least four sections and only archive two or more sections at a time." This means no archiving is done for now, since you need a sixth new talk discussion in order to archive two of the stale discussions and still leave four on the page.
(PS. Configuring the bot to keep 4 sections is very useful since the table of content is per default only generated on pages with four sections. Configuring the bot to only archive two sections at a time is relatively useful to avoid cluttering the history page with lots of archival edits, which can come across as the bot being "too aggressive" in its cleaning)
Proposal: tweak this new wondrous automatic display of the actual bot settings to also tell the user if the bot will only archive two or more sections at a time. Specifically when |minthreadstoarchive=2
(or more). Cheers
CapnZapp (
talk) 12:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
is currently displayed in the tooltip (along with the specific bot that does the archiving). It's not ideal, but when we designed the merge, keeping the display very concise was a top concern (for good reason, given the tendency for talk page banner bloat), so that's what we went with. Thinking in terms of a talk page user, I can see why it might be useful to know the auto-archiving period, but it's harder to envision reasons why it would be helpful to know the minthreadstoarchive or the specific bot that does the archiving.
Sdkb
talk 20:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)|minthreadstoarchive=2
So a reader can be left completely bewildered and not understand why the bot "isn't working" when it isn't archiving the oldest section once a sixth discussion is started, when in fact, it IS working: to keep down the number of archival edits; it will only step in once a seventh discussion is started, if it can then archive two discussions in one sweep. It's just the information that is inadequate. This is the same as when the talk header template first was reworked - support for every param except |minthreadstoarchive=
. Unless there's something strange going on and I don't see what you guys are seeing? (I'm using legacy Vector if that matters) Cheers
CapnZapp (
talk) 09:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
, but as I said above, I'll be skeptical of its value (and more so the more prominent the display).
Sdkb
talk 16:29, 2 March 2024 (UTC)You are claiming |minthreadstoarchive=
is currently displayed in the tooltip. I don't see it. I am not asking for this parameter to appear in the template. Just the tooltip text. I don't see why this could be controversial or why I need to start a new discussion or create a mockup? (Unless you mean simple wording along the lines of, still using Gravity as my example; "Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by lowercase sigmabot III after 120 days of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving.") I'm simply thinking that since you're already editing the relevant code and you are the editors with the relevant knowledge (if you can extract the other params you can extract this one), why not suggest fixing this once and for all...
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 90 days of inactivity when more than 4 threads are present? That's what we're referring to. Cheers, Sdkb talk 00:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=
parameter set.
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)|minthreadstoarchive=
and not merely |minthreadsleft=
which Talk header have had support for a while now. I think I have been consistently using minthreadstoarchive in my request but feel free to point out if I have accidentally mentioned a different parameter.
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
"Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by lowercase sigmabot III after 120 days of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving."(emphasis mine). Tollens ( talk) 21:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
|minthreadstoarchive=2
I would like the tooltip to say something along the lines of "...if more than 1 thread is eligible for archiving". As stated previously! I cannot do more than make sure I am using the right parameter name. I cannot help if people read that as referring to other parameters? Again, if y'all have any advice on how I can be more clear please advise - I thought I was crystal clear but apparently not so?
CapnZapp (
talk) 16:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
This is developed and now in test mode. I tweaked the wording slightly which seemed to flow better. Here's a summary of status and pages involved:
More eyeballs and more tests are needed; this is needless to say a highly visible template and we need to test the new functionality, as well as regression to ensure nothing is broken before going live. I need to set this aside for a while, so any help appreciated. Add tests directly to the test page {{ Talk header/testcases4}}, and please examine or run regression tests on the first three testcase pages as well; please note what works/doesn't below. Doc on page testcases4 is still thin; feel free to adjust as needed, and if there is anything inscrutable, please lmk. Mathglot ( talk) 02:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Was just poking around your new test cases, and found a new one at
Talk:Hurricane Florence with minthreadstoarchive=7. It doesn't test the new code path, because the config defines the archive names as using the date style, and {{
Talk header}} doesn't display anything for that case. But, we still have access to all the config params and if we wanted, we *could* still display the bot notice in that case, maybe even in plain text not as a tooltip, as a way for Talk header to display *something* even if it can't show the links. For that matter, it wouldn't be that hard to reconstitute the actual archive names based on parsing the |Archive=
param, but this is sounding more and more like a new proposal and off-topic with what we are testing here, so I think I'll drop this for now. I just wanted to get that out there, before I forgot about it, so we can take it up again if we want later after the dust has settled on current stuff.
Mathglot (
talk) 02:15, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Just to chime in regarding the cutoff for rounding ClueBot: it appears the code is using 24 hours. Only User:Novem Linguae suggested this. I have suggested 72 hours instead. Nobody has objected, but also, your response so far has been "it's incredibly easy to change it to any figure that comes out of consensus here" which is nice, but also kind of ignores my message. How about doing that which is so incredibly easy, and setting the number to 72 before finalizing testing, and then waiting for consensus to change it? CapnZapp ( talk) 21:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Note: the test code in the sandbox for adding this functionality has been removed in order to attend to a more important issue (see § Broken case below). The change will need to be re-added and retested in the sandbox. before moving ahead. Mathglot ( talk) 06:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Nothing is producing an expression error, something about a comma somehow getting into an expression (originally posted at User talk:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis § Nothing is wrong). Aidan9382 ( talk) 17:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
content of the Cluebot config at
Talk:Nothing
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{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis |archiveprefix=Talk:Nothing/Archive |format= %%i |age=15000 |maxarchsize=150000 |numberstart=2 |archivebox=yes |box-advert=yes }} |
Test archive bot parser for Talk:Nothing page via ExpandTemplates
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Set Context title to Test [[Template:Talk header/archivebotparse]]: * bot: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|bot}} * age: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|age}} * age (aliased): {{Th/abp|age}} * age rounded-a: {{Th/abp|age|round=y}} * age rounded-b: {{Th/abp|age|r=y}} * units: {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|units}} * minkeepthreads {{Template:Talk header/archivebotparse|minkeepthreads}}
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|round=y
. So I suspect the problem is somewhere in here;Parser code snippet to investigate
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|age = {{#if: {{{round|{{{r|}}}}}} | {{#ifexpr: {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} > 24<!-- --> | {{#expr: {{round|2*{{#expr: {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} / 24}}|0}} / 2}} <!-- --> | {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} <!-- --> }} <!-- -->| {{tmpv|{{{2|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|1|age}} <!-- -->}} |
Convenience notice: A situation arose with a user who has two archive bot configs on his Talk page. The automatic bot notice generation feature of Template:Archives failed to work properly in this case, because it was only designed to look for one bot config per page. The bot parser subtemplate has been modified to handle this case and is in sandbox testing now; details here. When it is completed and released, Template:Talk header will automatically pick up this change, and begin working correctly for pages with multiple bot configs that use the same bot. For the very limited number of Talk pages that use two different archival bots, only the first one will be reported automatically and a further upgrade would be required if we want to handle both. Mathglot ( talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)