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Should this article exist? It's a copypaste of work (my work) from United Macedonia; it's a fork. Please add some more information (translate foreign wiki articles perhaps), otherwise this article is a worthless plagiarization. -- Tēlex 20:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Telex, do you have any sources which claim there are Greeks in these regions? Frankly, I doubt about it. Bomac 21:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, according to this, there are Greeks only in the Mala Prespa region. There aren't any in Golo Brdo. Bomac 21:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, I am not a "macedonism" fighter and look the changes I've made. Bomac 21:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, you should use the name Telex in mkWiki, and not other name. That is sockpuppetry ;-) Bomac 21:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Golo Brdo is not marked at the map. It is further north and is not fused with Mala Prespa. The main place in Golo Brdo is Trebisht e Ball [or smt. like that] (Требишти и Баљ). Bomac 21:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think you refer to the Small Prespa Lake? Bomac 21:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Or Dimotika, let's say ;-) Bomac 21:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Look at the map. Golo Brdo is just south of Debar (where the border gets semi-circled form). Bomac 21:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Should be moved to Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo - the correct transliteration of the Macedonian language geographical term used by the officialy recognized Ethnic Macedonian minority in Albania. Dzole 21:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Additional sources have been provided. An image was added which has been previously accepted into the contetious article Vergina Star. Dzole 05:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The wisest move might be to stick with the official Albanian name as in German wiki: "Golloborda". Splitting the article in two "Mala Prespa" and "Golloborda" would be better, too as the current state is more irredentist than anything else. -- Laveol T 12:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey people, wait! Pages MUST NOT be moved by copying and pasting their contents! I'll fix this by restoring the page at its old ("Bardo") location; that doesn't mean it couldn't be moved again later, but do it properly, after discussion and only through the regular technique. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The page could not be moved in a regular way yesterday. There was an error message "such page exists" etc. (hence that "redirect war"). Regarding further discussions, I provided all the necesary sources, the page was properly proposed for a move, there are absolutely no reasons why should the title be in Bulgarian anymore. For those that suddenly began to insist that the original Albanian name should be used, I will ask: Why you havent insisted on that previously when the article was Bulgarian pov?
Moreover, Bulgarians are not a subject now. There may be/or not be Bulgarians in Albania, what I say for a last time is: a minority called Bulgarian is not recognized as an official minority by the Albanian state, in Bulgarian: Нямаме официален статут на малцинство. (We dont have a status of an official minority)
[13].
Future Perfect at Sunrise, its time to move this to
Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo
Dzole 15:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Futperf, it is geographical, historical and political and ethnic issue.
These two areas (Mala Prespa and the nearby Golo Brdo) were ceded to Albania after the Balkan Wars. Both of them belong to Macedonia (region) so its like Albanian Macedonia (like Greek Macedonia, which also comprises of many different geographical areas from mountains, plains all the way to the sea). The problem is, unlike Greek Macedonia or Pirin Macedonia, I have never heard a term "Albanian Macedonia" (part of the geo region of Mac within the borders of modern Albania). The area is refered to as Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. It is refered to as such in many of the articles around wikipedia. Macedonians are significant ethnic population in both of the areas. Macedonian language is used even on the flag of Pustec municiplaity (see the image).
Mala Prespa is the one of the two sister- Prespa Lakes (the Little and the Small Prespa) which are shared by several countries: Albania, Greece, Rep. of Macedonia. The term Prespa (either Big or Small) is also used to describe the area around the lakes (like "prespanski kraj" in mac. lang). Golo Brdo is slightly more north, particluary west of the town of Debar (which is in Rep. of Mac.) Dzole 17:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
And one important thing: the whole point of existence of this article was obviously not to ilustrate lakes and mountains, its not just a geographical region article. you can see its connected specificaly to ethnic Macedonian or region of Macedonia related subjects. Dzole 18:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Moreover, the bulgarian transliteration is not precise at all. That "A" in "bArdo" does not properly correspond to the Bulgarian letter "ъ" in "бърдо". A is like America, asylum, anthropology, while ъ is something else. In the Macedonian language ъ is written like ’ (in ’рж for example). Its not a letter but some "half-voice". The word "Bardo" sounds like bard-oh, while бърдо sounds like bird-oh. This was just a trivia, Bulgarian language is not recognzied nor used in Albania anyway Dzole 03:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
excuse me, but why a personal blog is allowed to be used as a source? see current footonote no.8, blog hosted at blogspot, URL: http://albania-bulgaria.blogspot.com/2007/04/ethnic-bulgarians-in-mala-prespa-and.html . As far as I can see (correct me if im wrong) the blog itself does not belong to Mrs/Ms. Mangalakova, nor the reference leads to the organisation which she allegedly represents: IMIR - International Center for Minority Studies and Intercultural Relations. This blog is just quoting or referencing her works or something. And finally, who is Mrs. Mangalakova? -- Dzole 00:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
i dont understand why we must mention the Bulgarian claims in the intoduction? For example, Republic of Macedonia claims an existence of ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece, which is not officialy recognized, should we now add such Macedonian claims to the introduction of the article Greek Macedonia? -- Dzole 15:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Mala Prespa and Golo Bardo are regions in Albania but not ethnic minorities! Regards! Jingby 15:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Im afraid i dont understand your point. There's no reason why should these Bulgarian claims about an unrecognized minority stay in the very beginning of the article? Should I go now to Greek Macedonia article (which is also a region and not minority) and add the Macedonian and/ or Bulgarian name for that province? -- Dzole 15:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong! The object of the article is a geographical area, but not any ethnic minority! If you will create an article in Wikipedia - Ethnic Macedonians in Albania! Regards! Jingby 15:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Im afraid you still dont understand. The naming issue of this article was solved previously. Golo BArdo is not in an official use in Albania, as the Bulgarian language is not recognized as official there. In the same way, Egejska Makedonija is not in an official use in Greece for Greek Macedonia as Macedonian minority is not recognized there. There absolutely no reason why you should do this. -- Dzole 16:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
“I wouldn’t like to offend anyone who would call himself a Macedonian, but in the territory near Lake Prespa there is a school instructing in Bulgarian”. Is what the politician said. He stated there is a school instructing in Bulgarain. He did not "state a presence of ethnic Bulgarians", he just said one school is instructing in Bugarian this does not mean there are any ethnic Bulgarians. Anyone could go to those schools Albanians, Roma's, Aromanians ect... He did not say who is attending that school. Ireland101 16:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The only one Albanian politician has stated Bulgarian involvement in Albania, he was former Prime Minister Aleksander Meksi who stated: ..... And this involvment is in connection with ethnic Bulgarians! Jingby 16:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I tried to refrain from politicaly contentious articles for a while but its really impossible, you constantly provoke me to come back.
User: Jingiby despite being blocked for edit warring previously, continues with blatant POV pushing in this article. Also he contuinues with adding questionable sources:
The only proof that the Organization is "neutral" is Jingiby's statement in his edit summary from 09:19, 14 November 2007, quote:
INTERNATIONAL CENTRE FOR MINORITY STUDIES is not Bulgarian belive!.
If such behaviour is repeatedly allowed in a place that tries to be a serious encyclopedia, then I really dont know what to say. This is obnoxious. I dont have to mention the questionable sources scattered throughout the other Macedonia-related articles ---- Dzole ( talk) 19:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The International Center for Minority Studies and Intercultural Relations (IMIR) was founded in April 1992 in cooperation with the Center for the Study of Islam and Christian – Muslim Relations (CSIC), Birmingham, UK and the Center for Research in Ethnic Relations (CRER), Warwick, UK. IMIR is a private, non-political, non-profit and non-governmental organization. IMIR is dedicated to the values of peaceful coexistence and tolerant interaction between different cultures, ethnoses and religions in Southeastern Europe and actively works for preservation and integration of all minority communities in Bulgaria. -- Jingby ( talk) 19:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
About footnote number 5: Ташев 1994: 141-162 стр. see here [14]. This is translation from the text in Bulgarian and pointing of the name of the resurcher, the pages and the citation - По време на Втората балканска конференция през 1932 г. българската и албанската делегация подписват протокол (Ташев 1994: 141-162), в който албанската страна признава съществуването на българско малцинство в Албания и поема ангажимент да поиска от правителството си откриването на училища в селищата, където българското население е преобладаващо. The text is about the recognition of the Bulgarian minority in Albania in 1932. Do you now better than me that in this periode even the Comintern did not recognised Macedonian nationality! -- Jingby ( talk) 19:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
About footnote number 3: Statement referenced to some man named Valeri Grigorov. He is member of Expert council of IMIR for Interdisciplinary and Balkan projects. See here, pleace - [15] -- Jingby ( talk) 19:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Spas Tashev is Director of Bulgarian Culture and Info Center in Skopje, former Director of Stat's Agency for Bulgarians abroad, [16] [17]-- Jingby ( talk) 21:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Some publications from him - [18] -- Jingby ( talk) 21:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Then it is not posible for the article to exists so. It have to left only the info about the geographical area. The rest have to be divided in two another articles about 350 000 Macedonians in Albania and about 100 000 Bulgarians there. This will be really stupid! -- Jingby ( talk) 21:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dont change the subject ---- Dzole ( talk) 21:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Good night! -- Jingby ( talk) 21:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes a fine example of scientific behaviour ---- Dzole ( talk) 21:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
FutPerf, thats good, but Im not very experienced in using those things. Just note Jingiby's behaviour above, this is obnoxious. Can something be done (permanently) about it? ---- Dzole ( talk) 22:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to imply that the area is homogeneous with Slav inhabitants. That is, Pogradec, Devoll, Librazhd, Elbasan, and Debar are all inhabited by Slav speakers. Do any Albanians live there? -- PG-Rated ( talk) 20:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
If yes, the title of this article is blatant irredentist propaganda and must be changed asap. We're talking about Albanian territory!-- Avg 20:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Enjoy: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilirida. ESPECIALLY the comments :-) -- Avg 19:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
stop the bickering on this article or it will be put up for deletion. Seriously, all nationalistic estimates should be removed from the title and placed further down, under irredentist veiws. OK, this article is really poor and lacks any encyclopedic value. Laveol you are constantly pushing a pro-bulgarian agenda while ignoring the facts. This page is over-referenced with political and pro-macedonian/pro-bulgarian references. If these people are bulgarian then they will declare themselves as such, same case with albanians and macedonians. These figures which you are referencing declare all Ethnic Macedonians to be bulgarian as well, so they are not to be trusted.
This article has become a sham. Could someone please cut to the chase and make it a valid encyclopedic article. And could someone please tell me why the bulgarian version of the name is still bieng put up in a region which is shared between macedonia and albania???? PMK1 ( talk) 05:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Guys, this does not make sense any more. First of all, this article is about region in Albania NOT region in Bulgaria as Laveol want to represent. Second think is that this is not correct name about the article. This two names Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo are two different places, not one region. Mala Prespa is near Prespa Lake and Golo Brdo is near Struga Debar region. This is article about geography and not about nationalities in AL and not especially article where BG propaganda will be spread away. We have article about Macedonians in AL and that is enough. I suggest that this article should be separated into two different articles Mala Prespa one and the other Golo Brdo.AND the articles should be strictly about geography not ethnicity or what ever. -- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 09:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
By the way, nice map, which is this country named "Macedonia"? I only know a region with this name. Perhaps someone wanted to say "Republic of Macedonia"?-- Avg 18:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Please, try reading the sentence before editing it. What kind of an expression is: "with other smaller minorities including some small number of Bulgarians and some small number of Turks". It already says that those minorities are small in the first part of the sentence, why do you want it to be in the second as well. I understand that you want to minimize the Bulgarian issue as much as you can, but try doing it in proper English, please. -- Laveol T 22:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Split, I have propsed that the article be split into Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. They are two different regions of Albania and grouping them together is unencyclopedic. Just because they are both in Macedonia does not mean that they should have the same article. PMK1 ( talk)07:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
There are translations of Vogel and Golloborda for Bulgarian, along with stating their are Bulgarians in this region, without showing sources. Albania does not recognize Bulgarian as a minority in that region (I'm not sure about the whole country). In these situations, sources from minority organizations like Helsinki Monitor should be used to show that even though Albania does not recognize the minority, it is there (just as Macedonians in Bulgaria are not recognized, but Helsinki, EU commission and other minority organizations prove it is). Until then the edits by Laveol will not be tolerated. Mactruth ( talk) 17:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Great, all I wanted was sources, but I have a question, the article states
"primarily populated by Macedonians and Albanians but also by a small number of Aromanians, Bulgarians and Turks."
If only a small number of Bulgarians are found, why is there a Bulgarian translation of the region? We would need to either include Turks and Vlach translations also, or simply have primary ethnicities as translations Mactruth ( talk) 04:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Laveol, the problem is not the source the problem is the contradiction. Listening to the following sceneries:
So what is the difference? Both begin the same but have different endings because your end goal is only met by the first, hence the contradiction. Mactruth ( talk) 01:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Instead of deleting the article, as it is proposed by one user, we can put split tag and divide the article into two, Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. No reason foe deleting since we can use the given data, which will make the work easier.-- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 14:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I suggest this page be deleted. It's not a disambiguation page, but rather a page containing two regions.
The only reason this is here is because there is a redirect Albanian Macedonia that links here.
And the only pages that link to that redirect are the two regions themselves Mala Prespa and Gollobordë, and there the term is listed only in the See also section.
In short, there is no reason to disambiguate a term that is just a listing of the two regions and no compelling reason to preserve a redirect that is not helpful. It doesn't make sense to keep this page just because of the redirect.
I suggest deleting both this page and the redirect Albanian Macedonia. If it makes sense for each region to link to the other in the See also section, then put a link to the other region with a brief explanation of why the two regions are related. That makes a lot more sense than linking to a redirect that points to the other article and also back to the same article in which the redirect appears. This is all so circular it's basically meaningless, and unnecessarily confusing. Coastside ( talk) 23:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 11 January 2010. The result of the discussion was no consensus, default to "keep". |
This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
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Should this article exist? It's a copypaste of work (my work) from United Macedonia; it's a fork. Please add some more information (translate foreign wiki articles perhaps), otherwise this article is a worthless plagiarization. -- Tēlex 20:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Telex, do you have any sources which claim there are Greeks in these regions? Frankly, I doubt about it. Bomac 21:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, according to this, there are Greeks only in the Mala Prespa region. There aren't any in Golo Brdo. Bomac 21:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, I am not a "macedonism" fighter and look the changes I've made. Bomac 21:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, you should use the name Telex in mkWiki, and not other name. That is sockpuppetry ;-) Bomac 21:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Golo Brdo is not marked at the map. It is further north and is not fused with Mala Prespa. The main place in Golo Brdo is Trebisht e Ball [or smt. like that] (Требишти и Баљ). Bomac 21:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think you refer to the Small Prespa Lake? Bomac 21:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Or Dimotika, let's say ;-) Bomac 21:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Look at the map. Golo Brdo is just south of Debar (where the border gets semi-circled form). Bomac 21:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Should be moved to Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo - the correct transliteration of the Macedonian language geographical term used by the officialy recognized Ethnic Macedonian minority in Albania. Dzole 21:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Additional sources have been provided. An image was added which has been previously accepted into the contetious article Vergina Star. Dzole 05:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The wisest move might be to stick with the official Albanian name as in German wiki: "Golloborda". Splitting the article in two "Mala Prespa" and "Golloborda" would be better, too as the current state is more irredentist than anything else. -- Laveol T 12:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey people, wait! Pages MUST NOT be moved by copying and pasting their contents! I'll fix this by restoring the page at its old ("Bardo") location; that doesn't mean it couldn't be moved again later, but do it properly, after discussion and only through the regular technique. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The page could not be moved in a regular way yesterday. There was an error message "such page exists" etc. (hence that "redirect war"). Regarding further discussions, I provided all the necesary sources, the page was properly proposed for a move, there are absolutely no reasons why should the title be in Bulgarian anymore. For those that suddenly began to insist that the original Albanian name should be used, I will ask: Why you havent insisted on that previously when the article was Bulgarian pov?
Moreover, Bulgarians are not a subject now. There may be/or not be Bulgarians in Albania, what I say for a last time is: a minority called Bulgarian is not recognized as an official minority by the Albanian state, in Bulgarian: Нямаме официален статут на малцинство. (We dont have a status of an official minority)
[13].
Future Perfect at Sunrise, its time to move this to
Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo
Dzole 15:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Futperf, it is geographical, historical and political and ethnic issue.
These two areas (Mala Prespa and the nearby Golo Brdo) were ceded to Albania after the Balkan Wars. Both of them belong to Macedonia (region) so its like Albanian Macedonia (like Greek Macedonia, which also comprises of many different geographical areas from mountains, plains all the way to the sea). The problem is, unlike Greek Macedonia or Pirin Macedonia, I have never heard a term "Albanian Macedonia" (part of the geo region of Mac within the borders of modern Albania). The area is refered to as Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. It is refered to as such in many of the articles around wikipedia. Macedonians are significant ethnic population in both of the areas. Macedonian language is used even on the flag of Pustec municiplaity (see the image).
Mala Prespa is the one of the two sister- Prespa Lakes (the Little and the Small Prespa) which are shared by several countries: Albania, Greece, Rep. of Macedonia. The term Prespa (either Big or Small) is also used to describe the area around the lakes (like "prespanski kraj" in mac. lang). Golo Brdo is slightly more north, particluary west of the town of Debar (which is in Rep. of Mac.) Dzole 17:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
And one important thing: the whole point of existence of this article was obviously not to ilustrate lakes and mountains, its not just a geographical region article. you can see its connected specificaly to ethnic Macedonian or region of Macedonia related subjects. Dzole 18:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Moreover, the bulgarian transliteration is not precise at all. That "A" in "bArdo" does not properly correspond to the Bulgarian letter "ъ" in "бърдо". A is like America, asylum, anthropology, while ъ is something else. In the Macedonian language ъ is written like ’ (in ’рж for example). Its not a letter but some "half-voice". The word "Bardo" sounds like bard-oh, while бърдо sounds like bird-oh. This was just a trivia, Bulgarian language is not recognzied nor used in Albania anyway Dzole 03:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
excuse me, but why a personal blog is allowed to be used as a source? see current footonote no.8, blog hosted at blogspot, URL: http://albania-bulgaria.blogspot.com/2007/04/ethnic-bulgarians-in-mala-prespa-and.html . As far as I can see (correct me if im wrong) the blog itself does not belong to Mrs/Ms. Mangalakova, nor the reference leads to the organisation which she allegedly represents: IMIR - International Center for Minority Studies and Intercultural Relations. This blog is just quoting or referencing her works or something. And finally, who is Mrs. Mangalakova? -- Dzole 00:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
i dont understand why we must mention the Bulgarian claims in the intoduction? For example, Republic of Macedonia claims an existence of ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece, which is not officialy recognized, should we now add such Macedonian claims to the introduction of the article Greek Macedonia? -- Dzole 15:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Mala Prespa and Golo Bardo are regions in Albania but not ethnic minorities! Regards! Jingby 15:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Im afraid i dont understand your point. There's no reason why should these Bulgarian claims about an unrecognized minority stay in the very beginning of the article? Should I go now to Greek Macedonia article (which is also a region and not minority) and add the Macedonian and/ or Bulgarian name for that province? -- Dzole 15:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong! The object of the article is a geographical area, but not any ethnic minority! If you will create an article in Wikipedia - Ethnic Macedonians in Albania! Regards! Jingby 15:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Im afraid you still dont understand. The naming issue of this article was solved previously. Golo BArdo is not in an official use in Albania, as the Bulgarian language is not recognized as official there. In the same way, Egejska Makedonija is not in an official use in Greece for Greek Macedonia as Macedonian minority is not recognized there. There absolutely no reason why you should do this. -- Dzole 16:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
“I wouldn’t like to offend anyone who would call himself a Macedonian, but in the territory near Lake Prespa there is a school instructing in Bulgarian”. Is what the politician said. He stated there is a school instructing in Bulgarain. He did not "state a presence of ethnic Bulgarians", he just said one school is instructing in Bugarian this does not mean there are any ethnic Bulgarians. Anyone could go to those schools Albanians, Roma's, Aromanians ect... He did not say who is attending that school. Ireland101 16:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The only one Albanian politician has stated Bulgarian involvement in Albania, he was former Prime Minister Aleksander Meksi who stated: ..... And this involvment is in connection with ethnic Bulgarians! Jingby 16:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I tried to refrain from politicaly contentious articles for a while but its really impossible, you constantly provoke me to come back.
User: Jingiby despite being blocked for edit warring previously, continues with blatant POV pushing in this article. Also he contuinues with adding questionable sources:
The only proof that the Organization is "neutral" is Jingiby's statement in his edit summary from 09:19, 14 November 2007, quote:
INTERNATIONAL CENTRE FOR MINORITY STUDIES is not Bulgarian belive!.
If such behaviour is repeatedly allowed in a place that tries to be a serious encyclopedia, then I really dont know what to say. This is obnoxious. I dont have to mention the questionable sources scattered throughout the other Macedonia-related articles ---- Dzole ( talk) 19:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The International Center for Minority Studies and Intercultural Relations (IMIR) was founded in April 1992 in cooperation with the Center for the Study of Islam and Christian – Muslim Relations (CSIC), Birmingham, UK and the Center for Research in Ethnic Relations (CRER), Warwick, UK. IMIR is a private, non-political, non-profit and non-governmental organization. IMIR is dedicated to the values of peaceful coexistence and tolerant interaction between different cultures, ethnoses and religions in Southeastern Europe and actively works for preservation and integration of all minority communities in Bulgaria. -- Jingby ( talk) 19:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
About footnote number 5: Ташев 1994: 141-162 стр. see here [14]. This is translation from the text in Bulgarian and pointing of the name of the resurcher, the pages and the citation - По време на Втората балканска конференция през 1932 г. българската и албанската делегация подписват протокол (Ташев 1994: 141-162), в който албанската страна признава съществуването на българско малцинство в Албания и поема ангажимент да поиска от правителството си откриването на училища в селищата, където българското население е преобладаващо. The text is about the recognition of the Bulgarian minority in Albania in 1932. Do you now better than me that in this periode even the Comintern did not recognised Macedonian nationality! -- Jingby ( talk) 19:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
About footnote number 3: Statement referenced to some man named Valeri Grigorov. He is member of Expert council of IMIR for Interdisciplinary and Balkan projects. See here, pleace - [15] -- Jingby ( talk) 19:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Spas Tashev is Director of Bulgarian Culture and Info Center in Skopje, former Director of Stat's Agency for Bulgarians abroad, [16] [17]-- Jingby ( talk) 21:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Some publications from him - [18] -- Jingby ( talk) 21:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Then it is not posible for the article to exists so. It have to left only the info about the geographical area. The rest have to be divided in two another articles about 350 000 Macedonians in Albania and about 100 000 Bulgarians there. This will be really stupid! -- Jingby ( talk) 21:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dont change the subject ---- Dzole ( talk) 21:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Good night! -- Jingby ( talk) 21:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes a fine example of scientific behaviour ---- Dzole ( talk) 21:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
FutPerf, thats good, but Im not very experienced in using those things. Just note Jingiby's behaviour above, this is obnoxious. Can something be done (permanently) about it? ---- Dzole ( talk) 22:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to imply that the area is homogeneous with Slav inhabitants. That is, Pogradec, Devoll, Librazhd, Elbasan, and Debar are all inhabited by Slav speakers. Do any Albanians live there? -- PG-Rated ( talk) 20:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
If yes, the title of this article is blatant irredentist propaganda and must be changed asap. We're talking about Albanian territory!-- Avg 20:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Enjoy: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilirida. ESPECIALLY the comments :-) -- Avg 19:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
stop the bickering on this article or it will be put up for deletion. Seriously, all nationalistic estimates should be removed from the title and placed further down, under irredentist veiws. OK, this article is really poor and lacks any encyclopedic value. Laveol you are constantly pushing a pro-bulgarian agenda while ignoring the facts. This page is over-referenced with political and pro-macedonian/pro-bulgarian references. If these people are bulgarian then they will declare themselves as such, same case with albanians and macedonians. These figures which you are referencing declare all Ethnic Macedonians to be bulgarian as well, so they are not to be trusted.
This article has become a sham. Could someone please cut to the chase and make it a valid encyclopedic article. And could someone please tell me why the bulgarian version of the name is still bieng put up in a region which is shared between macedonia and albania???? PMK1 ( talk) 05:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Guys, this does not make sense any more. First of all, this article is about region in Albania NOT region in Bulgaria as Laveol want to represent. Second think is that this is not correct name about the article. This two names Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo are two different places, not one region. Mala Prespa is near Prespa Lake and Golo Brdo is near Struga Debar region. This is article about geography and not about nationalities in AL and not especially article where BG propaganda will be spread away. We have article about Macedonians in AL and that is enough. I suggest that this article should be separated into two different articles Mala Prespa one and the other Golo Brdo.AND the articles should be strictly about geography not ethnicity or what ever. -- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 09:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
By the way, nice map, which is this country named "Macedonia"? I only know a region with this name. Perhaps someone wanted to say "Republic of Macedonia"?-- Avg 18:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Please, try reading the sentence before editing it. What kind of an expression is: "with other smaller minorities including some small number of Bulgarians and some small number of Turks". It already says that those minorities are small in the first part of the sentence, why do you want it to be in the second as well. I understand that you want to minimize the Bulgarian issue as much as you can, but try doing it in proper English, please. -- Laveol T 22:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Split, I have propsed that the article be split into Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. They are two different regions of Albania and grouping them together is unencyclopedic. Just because they are both in Macedonia does not mean that they should have the same article. PMK1 ( talk)07:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
There are translations of Vogel and Golloborda for Bulgarian, along with stating their are Bulgarians in this region, without showing sources. Albania does not recognize Bulgarian as a minority in that region (I'm not sure about the whole country). In these situations, sources from minority organizations like Helsinki Monitor should be used to show that even though Albania does not recognize the minority, it is there (just as Macedonians in Bulgaria are not recognized, but Helsinki, EU commission and other minority organizations prove it is). Until then the edits by Laveol will not be tolerated. Mactruth ( talk) 17:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Great, all I wanted was sources, but I have a question, the article states
"primarily populated by Macedonians and Albanians but also by a small number of Aromanians, Bulgarians and Turks."
If only a small number of Bulgarians are found, why is there a Bulgarian translation of the region? We would need to either include Turks and Vlach translations also, or simply have primary ethnicities as translations Mactruth ( talk) 04:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Laveol, the problem is not the source the problem is the contradiction. Listening to the following sceneries:
So what is the difference? Both begin the same but have different endings because your end goal is only met by the first, hence the contradiction. Mactruth ( talk) 01:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Instead of deleting the article, as it is proposed by one user, we can put split tag and divide the article into two, Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. No reason foe deleting since we can use the given data, which will make the work easier.-- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 14:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I suggest this page be deleted. It's not a disambiguation page, but rather a page containing two regions.
The only reason this is here is because there is a redirect Albanian Macedonia that links here.
And the only pages that link to that redirect are the two regions themselves Mala Prespa and Gollobordë, and there the term is listed only in the See also section.
In short, there is no reason to disambiguate a term that is just a listing of the two regions and no compelling reason to preserve a redirect that is not helpful. It doesn't make sense to keep this page just because of the redirect.
I suggest deleting both this page and the redirect Albanian Macedonia. If it makes sense for each region to link to the other in the See also section, then put a link to the other region with a brief explanation of why the two regions are related. That makes a lot more sense than linking to a redirect that points to the other article and also back to the same article in which the redirect appears. This is all so circular it's basically meaningless, and unnecessarily confusing. Coastside ( talk) 23:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)