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We have two articles about the same antisemitic canard:
Should they be merged? SarahSV (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Merging two mostly non-overlapping large articles is not a good idea. I see no advantage. - Altenmann >talk 02:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Also, the title "JB" is misleading. I would consider renaming it into "JB canard". And of course, there was no Jewish Bolshevism in Poland. There was a canard called "Zydokomuna". - Altenmann >talk 02:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Peter, I thought you should know better. Per wikipedia spirit, we have to find sources which say these things *are the same*, not vice versa. - Altenmann >talk 05:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Finally, both are antisemitic canards, but they are not the same. Before I present an explanation, here is a quiz for you: what is commmon in the following three terms: feminazi, silicon holocaust and judeo-bolshevism? If nobody answers correctly, I will not be wasting my time here. I am not editing wikipedia actively anymore. - Altenmann >talk 05:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Altenmann, I assume the answer to your riddle is that the terms have no denotation. Thank you for your insights here and at the other article, by the way. SarahSV (talk) 21:55, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
As a result of these factors they [Jews] found it easy after 1939 to participate in the Soviet occupation administration in Eastern Poland, and briefly occupied prominent positions in industry, schools, local government, police and other Soviet-installed institutions. The concept of "Judeo-communism" was reinforced during the period of the Soviet occupation (see Żydokomuna).
You claimed that this quote is related to the Jewish Bolshesivsm not Zydokomuna (the Polish variant. -FR) - it does not mention this subtopic
[5] and that I don't think his book even uses the term Zydokomuna. And the book is primarily about OUN/UPA (Ukraine), not Poland. Or is Zydokomuna part of Ukrainian culture too?
.
[6] Well, the book is named "Erased: Vanishing Traces of Jewish Galicia in Present-day Ukraine" (emphasis mine) -
Galicia having been Polish for much of its history, including the interwar and WWII periods. What's more, the book clearly speaks of this phenomenon in Poland (emphasized bit at the end is was quoted in the article):
The experience of suffering and slaughter [at the hands of the Soviets], combined with the widely held view - strongly encouraged by the German occupiers - that the Jews were the true guilty party in Communist crimes, certainly played a major role in unleashing the widespread murderous pogroms against Jewish populations in Eastern Galicia (and in other parts of eastern Poland)... That the myth which propelled these massacres has been revived even in some recent historical debates, such as the one surrounding the mass killing of the Jews in the eastern Polish town of Jedwabne, indicates that this distortion of the past can also serve as a tool for inverting guilt and responsibility. As a myth, the talk of Jewish collaboration with the Communists is as fascinating as the older and still potent canard of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. As history, it is simply false.
— Omer Bartov, Erased, pp. 38-40
You've misrepresented the source. Please adhere to WP:APL#Article sourcing expectations in the future. François Robere ( talk) 09:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Is any reason why this page was not merged with Jewish Bolshevism? This is exactly same thing, except that Żydokomuna, as this page correctly tells, is "a Polish language term for "Jewish Bolshevism". Why do we need a separate page for the Polish word when the subject is exactly the same? There are Polish words for every subject in WP. My very best wishes ( talk) 17:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism in Poland#Article sourcing expectations (22 September 2019): "The sourcing expectations applied to the article Collaboration in German-occupied Poland are expanded and adapted to cover all articles on the topic of Polish history during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. Only high quality sources may be used, specifically peer-reviewed scholarly journals, academically focused books by reputable publishers, and/or articles published by reputable institutions. English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available and of equal quality and relevance. Editors repeatedly failing to meet this standard may be topic-banned as an arbitration enforcement action." Also see the policy Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources. If you are unsure whether your edit is appropriate, discuss it on this talk page first. |
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which is a contentious topic. Please consult the procedures and edit carefully. |
Żydokomuna has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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|
||||
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 2 sections are present. |
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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We have two articles about the same antisemitic canard:
Should they be merged? SarahSV (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Merging two mostly non-overlapping large articles is not a good idea. I see no advantage. - Altenmann >talk 02:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Also, the title "JB" is misleading. I would consider renaming it into "JB canard". And of course, there was no Jewish Bolshevism in Poland. There was a canard called "Zydokomuna". - Altenmann >talk 02:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Peter, I thought you should know better. Per wikipedia spirit, we have to find sources which say these things *are the same*, not vice versa. - Altenmann >talk 05:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Finally, both are antisemitic canards, but they are not the same. Before I present an explanation, here is a quiz for you: what is commmon in the following three terms: feminazi, silicon holocaust and judeo-bolshevism? If nobody answers correctly, I will not be wasting my time here. I am not editing wikipedia actively anymore. - Altenmann >talk 05:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Altenmann, I assume the answer to your riddle is that the terms have no denotation. Thank you for your insights here and at the other article, by the way. SarahSV (talk) 21:55, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
As a result of these factors they [Jews] found it easy after 1939 to participate in the Soviet occupation administration in Eastern Poland, and briefly occupied prominent positions in industry, schools, local government, police and other Soviet-installed institutions. The concept of "Judeo-communism" was reinforced during the period of the Soviet occupation (see Żydokomuna).
You claimed that this quote is related to the Jewish Bolshesivsm not Zydokomuna (the Polish variant. -FR) - it does not mention this subtopic
[5] and that I don't think his book even uses the term Zydokomuna. And the book is primarily about OUN/UPA (Ukraine), not Poland. Or is Zydokomuna part of Ukrainian culture too?
.
[6] Well, the book is named "Erased: Vanishing Traces of Jewish Galicia in Present-day Ukraine" (emphasis mine) -
Galicia having been Polish for much of its history, including the interwar and WWII periods. What's more, the book clearly speaks of this phenomenon in Poland (emphasized bit at the end is was quoted in the article):
The experience of suffering and slaughter [at the hands of the Soviets], combined with the widely held view - strongly encouraged by the German occupiers - that the Jews were the true guilty party in Communist crimes, certainly played a major role in unleashing the widespread murderous pogroms against Jewish populations in Eastern Galicia (and in other parts of eastern Poland)... That the myth which propelled these massacres has been revived even in some recent historical debates, such as the one surrounding the mass killing of the Jews in the eastern Polish town of Jedwabne, indicates that this distortion of the past can also serve as a tool for inverting guilt and responsibility. As a myth, the talk of Jewish collaboration with the Communists is as fascinating as the older and still potent canard of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. As history, it is simply false.
— Omer Bartov, Erased, pp. 38-40
You've misrepresented the source. Please adhere to WP:APL#Article sourcing expectations in the future. François Robere ( talk) 09:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Is any reason why this page was not merged with Jewish Bolshevism? This is exactly same thing, except that Żydokomuna, as this page correctly tells, is "a Polish language term for "Jewish Bolshevism". Why do we need a separate page for the Polish word when the subject is exactly the same? There are Polish words for every subject in WP. My very best wishes ( talk) 17:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)