A fact from Zofia Poznańska appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 September 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Zofia Poznańska, cipher clerk to the Red Orchestra espionage group, was captured in Belgium by the Abwehr in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942?
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Sources use Sophia, Sophie, or Zosha.<ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=pS9w5A2Cp48C&pg=PA313&dq=Poznanska+1942</ref><ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=zXkpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT88&dq=Poznanska+1942</ref><ref>https://data.bnf.fr/en/15023926/sophia_poznanska/</ref><ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=U43lDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&dq=%22Sophia+Poznanska%22</ref><ref name="cement">{{cite journal |last1=Raizen |first1=Esther |title=CEMENTING STRATEGIES IN YEHUDIT KAFRI’S ZOSHA: FROM THE JEZREEL VALLEY TO THE RED ORCHESTRA |journal=Hebrew Studies |date=2018 |volume=59 |pages=335-358 |publisher=National Association of Professors of Hebrew (NAPH) |location=University of Texas, Austin|url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/26557801}}</ref><ref name="har">{{cite news |last1=Livneh |first1=Neri |title=A Woman Called Zosha |accessdate=31 August 2020 |agency=Haaretz |publisher=Amos Schocken, M. DuMont Schauberg |date=23 April 2003|url=https://www.haaretz.com/1.4782744}}</ref>
Not Zofia. She was in Poland as a youth in a multilingual society. She was then in Israel, Paris and Brussels, Russia, and died in Brussels. Using modern Polish conventions for someone who mostly did not use Polish is a cultural appropriation.
VR Boxing (
talk)
07:38, 5 September 2020 (UTC)reply
She was born in Poland and had a Polish surname, it is quite obvious she would use Polish (or Yddish). To use English spelling of her name she never did is the real "cultural appropriation". Polish translation of the book by Kafri uses Zosia in title, but as I said, it is a diminutive of Zofia, which is used in the Polish translation
[1]. Many sources for Zofia, including English:
[2],
[3], and of course Polish, from one of the main Polish-Jewish websites
[4] to a government-run culture portal
[5] to others
[6],
[7],
[8],
[9] but also German (see German Wikipedia article, which uses Zofia, not Sophie, even though German rendering of Zofia is also Sophie, just like in English). Ping
User:Nihil novi for his 3c. PS. Also ping
User:Scope creep who commented on this on my talkpage recently. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here00:36, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
It is correct to use the Polish name. There is a long history on Wikipedia on renaming bio articles, in this manner, to match the name of the person, correctly in the foreign language, English. It has been a long day. I think it needs to be reverted. scope_creepTalk01:09, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
My $0.03 worth:
Zofia Poznańska was born and grew up in Poland, leaving it at age 19. Her given name was the Polish Zofia. Her surname, Poznańska, had been adapted, as was so often the case with Polish Jews, from the name of a city, the Polish city of
Poznań.
If her given name is to be "translated" into another language, then may we expect her surname likewise to be "translated", from the original Polish "Poznańska" to, say, "Poznan"? Or shall we at least alter it, as regularly happens when a Polish woman migrates to an
Anglophone country, from its feminine form to the masculine "Poznański" or to the masculine anglicized "Poznanski" (without the
diacritic over the second n)? Or should we, perhaps, present her with a surname borrowed from a different city? Who shall choose? Has anyone consulted Zofia Poznańska about this most personal matter?
The German Wikipedia moved around. The extensive Hebrew page you brought up calls her Sofia (סופיה), not Zofia (זופיה), and also says sources refer to her also as Poznanski. Assimilated (מתבולל) refers to her religious upbringing which was secular, not language. You are making wrong assumptions on language use in a city that spoke Yiddish, Polish and German in 1906 on the border between the German and Russian empires. The official stone commemorating her,
0:40 in this video, uses סופיה פוזננסקי (Sofia Pozanski).
VR Boxing (
talk)
08:35, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Cringe, indeed! These are misbegotten attempts to suggest in English – certainly not in French, German, or Russian – how their authors thought
Zofia Poznańska's Polish
nicknameZosia and surname were pronounced. The name-manglers would have done better to forget about the nickname and just use her authentic name, Zofia, which even
Anglophones should be able to pronounce correctly (Zof-ya). The second,
palatalizedn in her surname, with the diacritic, is pronounced like the ñ in the Spanish word "mañana".
Nihil novi (
talk)
03:41, 7 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I can't locate the source for that image. It is off the front cover of the biography. Without the source url, it would be deleted within weeks. The Russian image rationale doesn't capture the full URL unfortunately and I cant locate it on the
[14] site. scope_creepTalk11:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
As I viewed it, a Russian ---> English Google Translate came on, and seemed to work fairly well. I did not see Zofia Poznańska mentioned under any of the photos.
Nihil novi (
talk)
22:20, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Amazon link
I have seen page iii of Zafri's translation through the "Look inside" facility on Amazon.co.uk, so I
included that URL as part of my reference. It would have been a perfectly valid reference to a book source without an online link, but it seemed useful to link to the place where it is possible to see the partial text online. First the reference was
removed entirely with the edit summary "Removed Amazon ref". I saw no reason for this, so replaced the reference. My edit, with three other constructive edits I had made, was
rolled back with the edit summary "You use Worldcat, not Amazon which is Spammy and promotional per WP:NOTADVERTISING". If anyone can find access to the text of the book other than through Amazon, please add that URL. In the meantime, please do not remove this reference (and, in particular, @
Scope creep: please do not roll back a whole group of constructive edits because you disagree with just one of them: you could have taken the trouble to remove the particular element you disagree with, the url link, without throwing away the rest). I was prepared to find that the software would reject my link to Amazon, as happens with various poor sources: as the software allowed it, I see no reason for one editor's preferences to disallow it.
PamD18:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi @
PamD: Its junk. The software shows it up as red link with a tooltip coming up stating Generally unreliable source. When your part of AFC/NPP, the rule is that you pull these spammy sources, so it will need to come out. Wikipedia software in general is absolutely junk. I wouldn't rely on it for anything. You don't link to Amazon, to prove that something is written on the inside cover. You link to the book. I suspect the original reference that I put in, has the same information. Anytime you link to a shop, particularly when the information is available elsewhere, reduces the quality of Wikipedia. Your subverting the whole idea of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia and breaking the Terms of Use. I plan to get the book at some when I see it on sale. So it will need to go. scope_creepTalk18:38, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Scope creep: I'm not particularly convinced ... and there was no justification at all for you to remove all my other work. I have removed the link which so upsets you. Please do not remove the rest of my work (or that of any other constructive editor when you disagree over one small detail, a link, in among a lot of other work).
PamD19:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
And the software was not showing me any error messages in red or any other colour, but was happily allowing me to link to the Amazon site.
PamD19:05, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
PamD: I'm sorry I removed your other work. It was really decent, I liked it and I admire it and enjoyed the fact that folk were working on it. You need to be part of the NPP/AFC group before you can see it. The policy now, is to remove these kinds of links, if they turn up red or yellow. It shows up as red or yellow depending on how bad it. People always say it doesn't matter and you same pattern of conversation on talk pages, all the time. For some reason Amazon isn't on an edit filter, e.g. Daily Mail, I think because most people say, well "I buy stuff from it, it can't be that bad". Same with Techcrunch, Forbes and numerous other low-quality sites. Its bad enough that the WMF changed the software, so it would be easy for an editor to identify what ones references were low-quality, or from a predatory journal source, at a glance. Even if it didn't show up in the software, I would never link to a shop. Always use academic sources if possible. I feel as though I'm trying to give you lesson, but you've written hundreds of articles already. Disagreement and lack of consensus is the reason its not on an edit filter and more so lack of resources. Even though the Wikipedia software is universally derided in the software community, because its ancient junk, the WMF is under the same constraints that we are. They would have hundreds of sites added to the edit filter, assuming their was a need do it and consensus to achieve it. I don't see the benefit of linking to a shop. scope_creepTalk19:24, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Scope creep: The benefit of linking to a "shop", in this case, was that the shop provides access to an online text which as far as I know nowhere else does. Your attitude to this, and what feels like your "ownership" of this article, means that the reader is deprived of a chance to link through to that text. How does that benefit them or improve the encyclopedia? "Always use academic sources if possible": yes, of course, but I explained at the time why I was linking to the Amazon site. Find the book available online somewhere else and I'll link to it happily. Another time please take much more care only to change the one small thing you object to, rather than lazily abusing Rollback to destroy a bunch of edits by an experienced editor just because it's easier to do it that way.
PamD22:16, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
This is an interesting issue that I am sure was discussed before. I like linking to a direct page online if possible, even if it is a shop, but I know we prefer Google Books > shops if possible. I am unsure if we have a policy that explicitly prevents linking to shops like Amazon for page views (please link to it if we have, TIA). That said, I also have seen people converting references (for example to Harvard style) with total disregard for the destruction of Google Books page links (and occasional quotations...). Anyway, this is something to discuss on a policy or style page. As for the matter here, I just want to thank everyone who got interested in this very niche topics, AGF and you are all doing a great job. Polish-Jewish topics desperately need more input from neutral and experienced editors after the last few years of its wiki reputation going down the drain. Let's all be friends, eh? :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here00:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC)reply
"
Zofia Poznańska,
cipher clerk to the
Red Orchestra spy ring, was captured in Belgium by the Germans in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942 so the Germans would not get the cipher?"
Hi @
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus: It is complex. This lady was a communist and worked for Leopold Trepper who was Soviet agent. He worked for Soviet intelligence. But the actual Red Orchestra as named by the Abwehr wasn't fully communist and wasn't a Soviet network. It was made up of all sorts of people with all sort of motivations, people from the left, the right, the young, the old, those from academia, the film industry, dentists, doctors, road workers, civil servants, playwrights, writers, producers, all sorts of people. I think the Trepper group and the ones that followed were wholly professional Soviets agents and ran a Soviet espionage network. They worked in the low countries and in France/UK/Scandinavia/Switzerland. But on the side in Germany it was folk who were anti-fascists, lots of Jewish, Protestant and some Catholic folk who didn't consider themselves communist, but perhaps admired the communist planned system and saw the Soviet Union as bulwark against Nazism, and as a resultant, a way to get back at the Nazis. That idea that was promulgated by the Gestapo as them being Soviet Communist espionage network, was taken forward, unquestioned, for much of the cold war right into the 1980's. New research started to come through, that detailed it not wholly communist or Soviet by a long way. Even those folk who were in that espionage network, for example in the
Red Three and in some instances of the Trepper groups were not Soviet. A lot of the intelligence went to UK and America. So I think it is not strictly true to say it is Soviet and it wouldn't be accurate to put in in. It needs clarification somehow. Ive taken it out all the other bio articles, after I found out about. I never came up with anything that accurately described it. Its a paragraph here to formulate. I never managed to get it down to a sentence. scope_creepTalk10:22, 10 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that Zofia Poznańska, cipher clerk to the Red Orchestra espionage group, was captured in Belgium by the Abwehr in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942 so the Germans would not get the cipher? Source: [1]
New & long enough, interesting, neutral & well-written. Earwig finds nothing. Ref linked implies but does not actually say "so the Germans would not get the cipher" - I suppose this is ok. Is a QPQ needed?
Johnbod (
talk)
02:56, 13 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The maiden name of Poznańska's mother as given in this article, "Hana Bash", is almost certainly a misspelling and should be verified in a reliable source.
The given name would likely have been spelled "Hanna"; the surname, perhaps "Basch", "Basz", or something similar.
A fact from Zofia Poznańska appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 September 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Zofia Poznańska, cipher clerk to the Red Orchestra espionage group, was captured in Belgium by the Abwehr in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
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espionage,
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Sources use Sophia, Sophie, or Zosha.<ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=pS9w5A2Cp48C&pg=PA313&dq=Poznanska+1942</ref><ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=zXkpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT88&dq=Poznanska+1942</ref><ref>https://data.bnf.fr/en/15023926/sophia_poznanska/</ref><ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=U43lDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&dq=%22Sophia+Poznanska%22</ref><ref name="cement">{{cite journal |last1=Raizen |first1=Esther |title=CEMENTING STRATEGIES IN YEHUDIT KAFRI’S ZOSHA: FROM THE JEZREEL VALLEY TO THE RED ORCHESTRA |journal=Hebrew Studies |date=2018 |volume=59 |pages=335-358 |publisher=National Association of Professors of Hebrew (NAPH) |location=University of Texas, Austin|url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/26557801}}</ref><ref name="har">{{cite news |last1=Livneh |first1=Neri |title=A Woman Called Zosha |accessdate=31 August 2020 |agency=Haaretz |publisher=Amos Schocken, M. DuMont Schauberg |date=23 April 2003|url=https://www.haaretz.com/1.4782744}}</ref>
Not Zofia. She was in Poland as a youth in a multilingual society. She was then in Israel, Paris and Brussels, Russia, and died in Brussels. Using modern Polish conventions for someone who mostly did not use Polish is a cultural appropriation.
VR Boxing (
talk)
07:38, 5 September 2020 (UTC)reply
She was born in Poland and had a Polish surname, it is quite obvious she would use Polish (or Yddish). To use English spelling of her name she never did is the real "cultural appropriation". Polish translation of the book by Kafri uses Zosia in title, but as I said, it is a diminutive of Zofia, which is used in the Polish translation
[1]. Many sources for Zofia, including English:
[2],
[3], and of course Polish, from one of the main Polish-Jewish websites
[4] to a government-run culture portal
[5] to others
[6],
[7],
[8],
[9] but also German (see German Wikipedia article, which uses Zofia, not Sophie, even though German rendering of Zofia is also Sophie, just like in English). Ping
User:Nihil novi for his 3c. PS. Also ping
User:Scope creep who commented on this on my talkpage recently. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here00:36, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
It is correct to use the Polish name. There is a long history on Wikipedia on renaming bio articles, in this manner, to match the name of the person, correctly in the foreign language, English. It has been a long day. I think it needs to be reverted. scope_creepTalk01:09, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
My $0.03 worth:
Zofia Poznańska was born and grew up in Poland, leaving it at age 19. Her given name was the Polish Zofia. Her surname, Poznańska, had been adapted, as was so often the case with Polish Jews, from the name of a city, the Polish city of
Poznań.
If her given name is to be "translated" into another language, then may we expect her surname likewise to be "translated", from the original Polish "Poznańska" to, say, "Poznan"? Or shall we at least alter it, as regularly happens when a Polish woman migrates to an
Anglophone country, from its feminine form to the masculine "Poznański" or to the masculine anglicized "Poznanski" (without the
diacritic over the second n)? Or should we, perhaps, present her with a surname borrowed from a different city? Who shall choose? Has anyone consulted Zofia Poznańska about this most personal matter?
The German Wikipedia moved around. The extensive Hebrew page you brought up calls her Sofia (סופיה), not Zofia (זופיה), and also says sources refer to her also as Poznanski. Assimilated (מתבולל) refers to her religious upbringing which was secular, not language. You are making wrong assumptions on language use in a city that spoke Yiddish, Polish and German in 1906 on the border between the German and Russian empires. The official stone commemorating her,
0:40 in this video, uses סופיה פוזננסקי (Sofia Pozanski).
VR Boxing (
talk)
08:35, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Cringe, indeed! These are misbegotten attempts to suggest in English – certainly not in French, German, or Russian – how their authors thought
Zofia Poznańska's Polish
nicknameZosia and surname were pronounced. The name-manglers would have done better to forget about the nickname and just use her authentic name, Zofia, which even
Anglophones should be able to pronounce correctly (Zof-ya). The second,
palatalizedn in her surname, with the diacritic, is pronounced like the ñ in the Spanish word "mañana".
Nihil novi (
talk)
03:41, 7 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I can't locate the source for that image. It is off the front cover of the biography. Without the source url, it would be deleted within weeks. The Russian image rationale doesn't capture the full URL unfortunately and I cant locate it on the
[14] site. scope_creepTalk11:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
As I viewed it, a Russian ---> English Google Translate came on, and seemed to work fairly well. I did not see Zofia Poznańska mentioned under any of the photos.
Nihil novi (
talk)
22:20, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Amazon link
I have seen page iii of Zafri's translation through the "Look inside" facility on Amazon.co.uk, so I
included that URL as part of my reference. It would have been a perfectly valid reference to a book source without an online link, but it seemed useful to link to the place where it is possible to see the partial text online. First the reference was
removed entirely with the edit summary "Removed Amazon ref". I saw no reason for this, so replaced the reference. My edit, with three other constructive edits I had made, was
rolled back with the edit summary "You use Worldcat, not Amazon which is Spammy and promotional per WP:NOTADVERTISING". If anyone can find access to the text of the book other than through Amazon, please add that URL. In the meantime, please do not remove this reference (and, in particular, @
Scope creep: please do not roll back a whole group of constructive edits because you disagree with just one of them: you could have taken the trouble to remove the particular element you disagree with, the url link, without throwing away the rest). I was prepared to find that the software would reject my link to Amazon, as happens with various poor sources: as the software allowed it, I see no reason for one editor's preferences to disallow it.
PamD18:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi @
PamD: Its junk. The software shows it up as red link with a tooltip coming up stating Generally unreliable source. When your part of AFC/NPP, the rule is that you pull these spammy sources, so it will need to come out. Wikipedia software in general is absolutely junk. I wouldn't rely on it for anything. You don't link to Amazon, to prove that something is written on the inside cover. You link to the book. I suspect the original reference that I put in, has the same information. Anytime you link to a shop, particularly when the information is available elsewhere, reduces the quality of Wikipedia. Your subverting the whole idea of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia and breaking the Terms of Use. I plan to get the book at some when I see it on sale. So it will need to go. scope_creepTalk18:38, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Scope creep: I'm not particularly convinced ... and there was no justification at all for you to remove all my other work. I have removed the link which so upsets you. Please do not remove the rest of my work (or that of any other constructive editor when you disagree over one small detail, a link, in among a lot of other work).
PamD19:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
And the software was not showing me any error messages in red or any other colour, but was happily allowing me to link to the Amazon site.
PamD19:05, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
PamD: I'm sorry I removed your other work. It was really decent, I liked it and I admire it and enjoyed the fact that folk were working on it. You need to be part of the NPP/AFC group before you can see it. The policy now, is to remove these kinds of links, if they turn up red or yellow. It shows up as red or yellow depending on how bad it. People always say it doesn't matter and you same pattern of conversation on talk pages, all the time. For some reason Amazon isn't on an edit filter, e.g. Daily Mail, I think because most people say, well "I buy stuff from it, it can't be that bad". Same with Techcrunch, Forbes and numerous other low-quality sites. Its bad enough that the WMF changed the software, so it would be easy for an editor to identify what ones references were low-quality, or from a predatory journal source, at a glance. Even if it didn't show up in the software, I would never link to a shop. Always use academic sources if possible. I feel as though I'm trying to give you lesson, but you've written hundreds of articles already. Disagreement and lack of consensus is the reason its not on an edit filter and more so lack of resources. Even though the Wikipedia software is universally derided in the software community, because its ancient junk, the WMF is under the same constraints that we are. They would have hundreds of sites added to the edit filter, assuming their was a need do it and consensus to achieve it. I don't see the benefit of linking to a shop. scope_creepTalk19:24, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Scope creep: The benefit of linking to a "shop", in this case, was that the shop provides access to an online text which as far as I know nowhere else does. Your attitude to this, and what feels like your "ownership" of this article, means that the reader is deprived of a chance to link through to that text. How does that benefit them or improve the encyclopedia? "Always use academic sources if possible": yes, of course, but I explained at the time why I was linking to the Amazon site. Find the book available online somewhere else and I'll link to it happily. Another time please take much more care only to change the one small thing you object to, rather than lazily abusing Rollback to destroy a bunch of edits by an experienced editor just because it's easier to do it that way.
PamD22:16, 6 September 2020 (UTC)reply
This is an interesting issue that I am sure was discussed before. I like linking to a direct page online if possible, even if it is a shop, but I know we prefer Google Books > shops if possible. I am unsure if we have a policy that explicitly prevents linking to shops like Amazon for page views (please link to it if we have, TIA). That said, I also have seen people converting references (for example to Harvard style) with total disregard for the destruction of Google Books page links (and occasional quotations...). Anyway, this is something to discuss on a policy or style page. As for the matter here, I just want to thank everyone who got interested in this very niche topics, AGF and you are all doing a great job. Polish-Jewish topics desperately need more input from neutral and experienced editors after the last few years of its wiki reputation going down the drain. Let's all be friends, eh? :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here00:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC)reply
"
Zofia Poznańska,
cipher clerk to the
Red Orchestra spy ring, was captured in Belgium by the Germans in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942 so the Germans would not get the cipher?"
Hi @
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus: It is complex. This lady was a communist and worked for Leopold Trepper who was Soviet agent. He worked for Soviet intelligence. But the actual Red Orchestra as named by the Abwehr wasn't fully communist and wasn't a Soviet network. It was made up of all sorts of people with all sort of motivations, people from the left, the right, the young, the old, those from academia, the film industry, dentists, doctors, road workers, civil servants, playwrights, writers, producers, all sorts of people. I think the Trepper group and the ones that followed were wholly professional Soviets agents and ran a Soviet espionage network. They worked in the low countries and in France/UK/Scandinavia/Switzerland. But on the side in Germany it was folk who were anti-fascists, lots of Jewish, Protestant and some Catholic folk who didn't consider themselves communist, but perhaps admired the communist planned system and saw the Soviet Union as bulwark against Nazism, and as a resultant, a way to get back at the Nazis. That idea that was promulgated by the Gestapo as them being Soviet Communist espionage network, was taken forward, unquestioned, for much of the cold war right into the 1980's. New research started to come through, that detailed it not wholly communist or Soviet by a long way. Even those folk who were in that espionage network, for example in the
Red Three and in some instances of the Trepper groups were not Soviet. A lot of the intelligence went to UK and America. So I think it is not strictly true to say it is Soviet and it wouldn't be accurate to put in in. It needs clarification somehow. Ive taken it out all the other bio articles, after I found out about. I never came up with anything that accurately described it. Its a paragraph here to formulate. I never managed to get it down to a sentence. scope_creepTalk10:22, 10 September 2020 (UTC)reply
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... that Zofia Poznańska, cipher clerk to the Red Orchestra espionage group, was captured in Belgium by the Abwehr in 1941 and hanged herself in prison in 1942 so the Germans would not get the cipher? Source: [1]
New & long enough, interesting, neutral & well-written. Earwig finds nothing. Ref linked implies but does not actually say "so the Germans would not get the cipher" - I suppose this is ok. Is a QPQ needed?
Johnbod (
talk)
02:56, 13 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The maiden name of Poznańska's mother as given in this article, "Hana Bash", is almost certainly a misspelling and should be verified in a reliable source.
The given name would likely have been spelled "Hanna"; the surname, perhaps "Basch", "Basz", or something similar.