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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2021 and 23 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ekscherber, LukeRuegemer. Peer reviewers: LukeRuegemer, Yang7707.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Should a reference to Alphaville be included here?
The society outlined in More's book is not meant to be his "perfect society." He specifically says in the last lines of the work that he does not agree with everything that goes on in Utopia. In addition, his attached letter to Peter Giles as much as says that he is merely using the piece to "drop pointed hints" about Europena society at the time. More's presentation of his "Utopia" is meant only as a platform from which to discuss social issues. I feel that, as is, this wikipedia article is incorrect and misleading in this regard. Would anyone be opposed to me changing the part about More presenting his "vision of an ideal society?"
I wonder what is this genre relation to social science fiction? Can utopian and dystopian diction be classified as a part of Category:Science fiction genres?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 03:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
No it isn't. Erehwon is nowhere spelled backwards. Ade90212 09:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
After looking through many pages of movies/novels/short stories/poems that are dystopian works, but not in the short paragraph here, I think a List page should be created listing links to any fiction that has dystopian themes. Any thoughts as to this being a good idea? Gronkmeister 17:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether Star Trek should be considered a utopian fiction, any thoughts? -- Aled D 12:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Does 1984 not belong on the list? It is a dystopian story.
Regards,
Robin.lemstra
Isn't "The Giver" by Lois Lowry an example of Dystopian fiction?
At first, we are led to believe that the society is a utopia. But we soon learn that it is not. From what I remember, after a certain age, the old are euthenized. Also, newborn twins are murdered. There are other examples as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.44.24 ( talk) 04:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
No. The Giver is a clear balance between Utopian and Dystopian. It should be left in between,
-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 ( talk) 06:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
At first, "The Giver" is set in a supposed perfect Utopian society but later we find out it really is not what it seems. They use lethal injection to murder imperfect babies, criminals, and people too old to be productive. They only do this so that the community is smooth and profitable. However, it cages the people living there from feeling real pain, happiness, and love, which stops their freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.10.36 ( talk) 17:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm working on the utopia article, and noting that this article needs significant work. In particular, there is nothing in this article that discusses the very distinct utopian genre -- its hallmarks being a traveler's commentary on a foreign society, significant amounts of exposition and didactic writing, and accordingly less emphasis on characterization and plot. Doing this would let us then explain how later developments have played with the conventions of the genre (e.g., The Dispossessed in which the reader explores the "utopian" society and sees it as not utopian, then the protagonist voyages to the dystopian society for comparison, and returns home; Katharine Burdekin's Proud Man, Louky Bersianik's Euguelion, and Marge Piercy's Woman on the Edge of Time in which a visitor comes to our society to comment negatively) and of course the dystopian novel.
So, in the meantime, I've plugged in some links and will start working on this article more. -- lquilter 18:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
For the examples under Utopian fiction, I think the year they were published should either be listed for all the examples or none; Starting halfway through makes little sense. — Managore ( talk) 19:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Why isn't this novel mentioned at all? Isn't it one of the most well-known works of utopian fiction, at least in the English speaking world? 87.160.148.43 ( talk) 19:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Shangri-La
Can we add a few examples of feminist utopias here that don't involve the removal of men? Because those aren't exactly feminist, they're just science fiction. Feminism does not advocate the removal of suppression of men, it advocates the removal of societal restrictions and biases based on sex or gender. See Feminist science fiction for more info; the examples there describe genderless societies. Regardless, the section is inaccurate and needs revision. -- Grenadier ( talk) 04:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
This shouldn't really have it's own section as there is already a page on feminist science fiction, and most of the books mentioned just have different societal norms/systems which is true of all science fiction books. Regardless, as a stop gap I've shortened this part as it was needlessly long (especially compared to the length of the other, broader, sections) and read like a book review/a long list of book plots with a subjective slant. I also took out a few subjective phrases and words. If this can't be deleted/moved to Feminist science fiction, it still needs to be cut down further. -- 145.120.1.9 ( talk) 01:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
The lists of utopian and dystopian literature would be more informative to the reader if given in chronological rather than alphabetical order. What do you all think? -- Gimme danger ( talk) 16:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of dystopias. It might be useful to look at [1] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein ( talk) 23:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Surely the Land of the Houyhnhnms is no utopia? Since the human inhabitants are reduced to an almost ape-like state and treated with vicious discrimination, it sounds more like a dystopia to me.
Hors-la-loi 16:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hors-la-loi ( talk • contribs)
"apocalyptic" and dystopian are not synonyms. often, of course, dystopias apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic, but Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's China were dystopias without have any relationship to an apocalypse. Likewise Zamyatin's We, Huxley's Brave New World, and Orwell's 1984.
Blood Red Road is post-apocalytic without being dystopian. The social order is bad, of course, but that's not the focus of the book, nor is the social order pervasive enough to raise to the level of dystopian stories. It's just that bad, foolish people control a distant government that happens to seize the protagonist's brother.
Anyone who confuses and conflates apocalyptic and dystopian is simply confused, and Wikipedia shouldn't validate their confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.63.222 ( talk) 03:46, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I just stumbled over this paragraph, and to me it sounds a bit strange:
"Dystopian literature is a modern fad because there are four aspects of dystopian literature that apply to us as a consumer-oriented society, according to Rachel Wilkinson, a high school English teacher. These four aspects that are applicable to our society are advertising and industry, instant gratification, reliance on technology, and decline of language. She has decided that it's important teenagers especially come into contact with these four aspects, because they are a warnings against such traits from novelists such as Huxley and M. T. Anderson in his novel Feed.[4]"
Is it okay to quote the ideas of "a high school English teacher" without real peer review? The points here are not uninteresting, but since the rest of the article is quite matter-of-fact without much comment and deeper interpretation, I feel that the tone of this paragraph makes it look far more relevant than it actually is. Besides the last sentence is not very good English, is it?
Any opinions about change or deletion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.205.110.4 ( talk) 15:48, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I just have to say that parts of this article are very badly written, such as the entire section discussing 1984 and Brave New World. There's a very long run-on sentence and quite a few other issues as well, such as referring to a "beverage that to put it mildly is unpleasant". This needs fixing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.19.197 ( talk) 07:14, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
An editor is linking [[Satire|political warnings]] to "Dystopia" section. I see no evidence that "political warnings" are ever considered satire, although satire can contain political warnings. Pseudo-utopias often contain satire, but that's not the same thing. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:49, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
I mean dystopian literature is written with the main intention of criticising a society through exaggeration of the idea that is being disapproved by the author. Example: Anthem (novella). Mr. Guye ( talk) 08:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
This sentence: “Writer Sally Miller Gearhart calls this sort of fiction political: it contrasts the present world with an idealized society, criticizes contemporary values and conditions, sees men or masculine systems as the major cause of social and political problems (e.g. war), and presents women as equal to men, having ownership over their reproductive functions." can be found all over the internet without accurate attribution. The URL of the citation provided "writer, Linda Napikoski Linda Napikoski is a; feminism, grassroots activist with a J. D. international law Her editorial focus is on; Rights, Global Human. "A Look at Feminist Utopia and Dystopia Literature". ThoughtCo. Retrieved 2019-01-16." does not, as of today, 2019-10-25, show that sentence or quote Gearhardt. It may be that Napikoski is a relevant source for the topic, but I am removing the sentence as written and replace it with the original quotation by Gearhardt and the appropriate citation to the book in which she wrote it. However, the dead end citation citation should also be removed, no? JStokes ( talk) 15:50, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
In the article it is stated: "The word utopia resembles both the Greek words "no place", "outopos", and "good place", "eutopos"." This is only true for the English pronunciation of these words. In Greek and all other languages they are pronounced differently. So a non-English speaker cannot connect them.-- 183.182.119.248 ( talk) 15:07, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Since the article talks about two different topics, maybe the page could be split into "Utopian Fiction" and "Dystopian fiction"? Is that appropriate for this situation? TypoEater ( talk) 14:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 June 2023 and 26 July 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Onelinerprivateer ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Nrjohns1, Shebewildering, Toonami1994.
— Assignment last updated by Nrjohns1 ( talk) 23:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 7 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Peroitsempress ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Krisso12 ( talk) 21:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2021 and 23 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ekscherber, LukeRuegemer. Peer reviewers: LukeRuegemer, Yang7707.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Should a reference to Alphaville be included here?
The society outlined in More's book is not meant to be his "perfect society." He specifically says in the last lines of the work that he does not agree with everything that goes on in Utopia. In addition, his attached letter to Peter Giles as much as says that he is merely using the piece to "drop pointed hints" about Europena society at the time. More's presentation of his "Utopia" is meant only as a platform from which to discuss social issues. I feel that, as is, this wikipedia article is incorrect and misleading in this regard. Would anyone be opposed to me changing the part about More presenting his "vision of an ideal society?"
I wonder what is this genre relation to social science fiction? Can utopian and dystopian diction be classified as a part of Category:Science fiction genres?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 03:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
No it isn't. Erehwon is nowhere spelled backwards. Ade90212 09:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
After looking through many pages of movies/novels/short stories/poems that are dystopian works, but not in the short paragraph here, I think a List page should be created listing links to any fiction that has dystopian themes. Any thoughts as to this being a good idea? Gronkmeister 17:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether Star Trek should be considered a utopian fiction, any thoughts? -- Aled D 12:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Does 1984 not belong on the list? It is a dystopian story.
Regards,
Robin.lemstra
Isn't "The Giver" by Lois Lowry an example of Dystopian fiction?
At first, we are led to believe that the society is a utopia. But we soon learn that it is not. From what I remember, after a certain age, the old are euthenized. Also, newborn twins are murdered. There are other examples as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.44.24 ( talk) 04:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
No. The Giver is a clear balance between Utopian and Dystopian. It should be left in between,
-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 ( talk) 06:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
At first, "The Giver" is set in a supposed perfect Utopian society but later we find out it really is not what it seems. They use lethal injection to murder imperfect babies, criminals, and people too old to be productive. They only do this so that the community is smooth and profitable. However, it cages the people living there from feeling real pain, happiness, and love, which stops their freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.10.36 ( talk) 17:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm working on the utopia article, and noting that this article needs significant work. In particular, there is nothing in this article that discusses the very distinct utopian genre -- its hallmarks being a traveler's commentary on a foreign society, significant amounts of exposition and didactic writing, and accordingly less emphasis on characterization and plot. Doing this would let us then explain how later developments have played with the conventions of the genre (e.g., The Dispossessed in which the reader explores the "utopian" society and sees it as not utopian, then the protagonist voyages to the dystopian society for comparison, and returns home; Katharine Burdekin's Proud Man, Louky Bersianik's Euguelion, and Marge Piercy's Woman on the Edge of Time in which a visitor comes to our society to comment negatively) and of course the dystopian novel.
So, in the meantime, I've plugged in some links and will start working on this article more. -- lquilter 18:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
For the examples under Utopian fiction, I think the year they were published should either be listed for all the examples or none; Starting halfway through makes little sense. — Managore ( talk) 19:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Why isn't this novel mentioned at all? Isn't it one of the most well-known works of utopian fiction, at least in the English speaking world? 87.160.148.43 ( talk) 19:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Shangri-La
Can we add a few examples of feminist utopias here that don't involve the removal of men? Because those aren't exactly feminist, they're just science fiction. Feminism does not advocate the removal of suppression of men, it advocates the removal of societal restrictions and biases based on sex or gender. See Feminist science fiction for more info; the examples there describe genderless societies. Regardless, the section is inaccurate and needs revision. -- Grenadier ( talk) 04:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
This shouldn't really have it's own section as there is already a page on feminist science fiction, and most of the books mentioned just have different societal norms/systems which is true of all science fiction books. Regardless, as a stop gap I've shortened this part as it was needlessly long (especially compared to the length of the other, broader, sections) and read like a book review/a long list of book plots with a subjective slant. I also took out a few subjective phrases and words. If this can't be deleted/moved to Feminist science fiction, it still needs to be cut down further. -- 145.120.1.9 ( talk) 01:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
The lists of utopian and dystopian literature would be more informative to the reader if given in chronological rather than alphabetical order. What do you all think? -- Gimme danger ( talk) 16:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of dystopias. It might be useful to look at [1] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein ( talk) 23:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Surely the Land of the Houyhnhnms is no utopia? Since the human inhabitants are reduced to an almost ape-like state and treated with vicious discrimination, it sounds more like a dystopia to me.
Hors-la-loi 16:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hors-la-loi ( talk • contribs)
"apocalyptic" and dystopian are not synonyms. often, of course, dystopias apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic, but Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's China were dystopias without have any relationship to an apocalypse. Likewise Zamyatin's We, Huxley's Brave New World, and Orwell's 1984.
Blood Red Road is post-apocalytic without being dystopian. The social order is bad, of course, but that's not the focus of the book, nor is the social order pervasive enough to raise to the level of dystopian stories. It's just that bad, foolish people control a distant government that happens to seize the protagonist's brother.
Anyone who confuses and conflates apocalyptic and dystopian is simply confused, and Wikipedia shouldn't validate their confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.63.222 ( talk) 03:46, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I just stumbled over this paragraph, and to me it sounds a bit strange:
"Dystopian literature is a modern fad because there are four aspects of dystopian literature that apply to us as a consumer-oriented society, according to Rachel Wilkinson, a high school English teacher. These four aspects that are applicable to our society are advertising and industry, instant gratification, reliance on technology, and decline of language. She has decided that it's important teenagers especially come into contact with these four aspects, because they are a warnings against such traits from novelists such as Huxley and M. T. Anderson in his novel Feed.[4]"
Is it okay to quote the ideas of "a high school English teacher" without real peer review? The points here are not uninteresting, but since the rest of the article is quite matter-of-fact without much comment and deeper interpretation, I feel that the tone of this paragraph makes it look far more relevant than it actually is. Besides the last sentence is not very good English, is it?
Any opinions about change or deletion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.205.110.4 ( talk) 15:48, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I just have to say that parts of this article are very badly written, such as the entire section discussing 1984 and Brave New World. There's a very long run-on sentence and quite a few other issues as well, such as referring to a "beverage that to put it mildly is unpleasant". This needs fixing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.19.197 ( talk) 07:14, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
An editor is linking [[Satire|political warnings]] to "Dystopia" section. I see no evidence that "political warnings" are ever considered satire, although satire can contain political warnings. Pseudo-utopias often contain satire, but that's not the same thing. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:49, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
I mean dystopian literature is written with the main intention of criticising a society through exaggeration of the idea that is being disapproved by the author. Example: Anthem (novella). Mr. Guye ( talk) 08:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
This sentence: “Writer Sally Miller Gearhart calls this sort of fiction political: it contrasts the present world with an idealized society, criticizes contemporary values and conditions, sees men or masculine systems as the major cause of social and political problems (e.g. war), and presents women as equal to men, having ownership over their reproductive functions." can be found all over the internet without accurate attribution. The URL of the citation provided "writer, Linda Napikoski Linda Napikoski is a; feminism, grassroots activist with a J. D. international law Her editorial focus is on; Rights, Global Human. "A Look at Feminist Utopia and Dystopia Literature". ThoughtCo. Retrieved 2019-01-16." does not, as of today, 2019-10-25, show that sentence or quote Gearhardt. It may be that Napikoski is a relevant source for the topic, but I am removing the sentence as written and replace it with the original quotation by Gearhardt and the appropriate citation to the book in which she wrote it. However, the dead end citation citation should also be removed, no? JStokes ( talk) 15:50, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
In the article it is stated: "The word utopia resembles both the Greek words "no place", "outopos", and "good place", "eutopos"." This is only true for the English pronunciation of these words. In Greek and all other languages they are pronounced differently. So a non-English speaker cannot connect them.-- 183.182.119.248 ( talk) 15:07, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Since the article talks about two different topics, maybe the page could be split into "Utopian Fiction" and "Dystopian fiction"? Is that appropriate for this situation? TypoEater ( talk) 14:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 June 2023 and 26 July 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Onelinerprivateer ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Nrjohns1, Shebewildering, Toonami1994.
— Assignment last updated by Nrjohns1 ( talk) 23:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 7 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Peroitsempress ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Krisso12 ( talk) 21:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)