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Is the rant on largest island in largest lake on largest island, etc really relevant information? Especially considering that it is debatable weather Lake Superior is the largest lake. 195.67.88.222 ( talk) 08:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Are these even real? An editor, User:Rogerdickey, messaged me this:
Hi Herostratus, I wanted to further explore your "island within a lake within an island" assertion, so I bought the book you referenced, "Superior Wilderness" by Napier Shelton, 1997. On page 103, where there is supposed to be some reference to Moose Flats or Moose Boulder, I didn't see anything of the sort. Are you sure you found the reference there? Every reference to Moose Flats on the internet seems to point back to your Wikipedia edit. Does Moose Flats really exist? :)
I put in the ref, but I don't have access to the book "Superior Wilderness" now -- I never had access to a hard copy, but I must have had access online at one time, or I wouldn't have put in the ref, I'm pretty sure. So this's a head-scratcher... I guess I just made a mistake? Before I remove the content (the entire paragraph depends on the existence of Moose Boulder), let me see... the passage referenced is
Ryan Island contains Moose Flats, a seasonal pond, which contains Moose Boulder. When Moose Flats is flooded, Moose Boulder becomes the largest island in the largest lake on the largest island in the largest lake on the largest island in the largest lake in the world by surface area.
and the ref is: Shelton, Napier (1997). Superior Wilderness: Isle Royale National Park. Isle Royale Natural History Association. p. 103. ISBN 0-935289-09-7.
User:Rogerdickey, what does page 103 say? Does it touch on any of this at all? Does it somehow ref the latter part of the passage but not the existence of Moose Boulder or something? Going to keep looking.
Here is something from Atlas Obscura, which seems to be a legit operation which probably doesn't flat make stuff up. It's not a Wikipedia mirror. It says "Usually, Moose Boulder overlooks a patch of often wet, soggy earth. As the floodwaters seep in and a pond forms around it, the boulder becomes one of the most fascinating islands in the world. This flooding of Moose Flats transforms Moose Boulder into..." This is point in favor of Moose Boulder existing. Where they got their info I don't know. If they took it from Wikipedia and changed the prose around and made up the "often wet, soggy" part etc, that'd be journalistic malpractice and also poor long-term business practice, I think, considering their target audience and market positioning. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, tho; overzealous writers do stuff like that all the time, and editors and fact-checkers can't catch everything.
There's also a photo of (what is purported to be) Moose Boulder, in what is presumably Moose Flats in flood state, in that article (you have to scroll). The photo is credited to the "Seafloor Samples Laboratory". None of this proves anything.
Hmnh, this is odd, I created this article in 2014, but this 2009 newspaper article mirrors it. I can't explain that.
So, hmmm. To be continued. Herostratus ( talk) 07:25, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
The picture on Atlas Obscura is not of Moose Boulder, it's a random rock off the coast of Isle Royale. It was taken on Chris Reddy's expedition to Isle Royale to take lake floor core samples in 1998. This appears to be the page where it used to be hosted online - https://web.archive.org/web/20081122120453/http://www.whoi.edu/science/GG/corelab/voyages/siskiwit_s29.html. According to the text, the group never even reached Ryan Island, which is the island where Moose Flats (and Moose Boulder) are said to be. I reached out to Chris Reddy and he had no memory of going to Ryan Island.
The only listed reference on Atlas Obscura is your Wikipedia article, but I reached out to AO to see if they will put me in touch with the author. The post was written by a staff writer, not contributed by a user.
It is bizarrely anachronistic that an article in 2009 references your originally written 2014 article?? How is that possible? The plot thickens.
Please let me know if you can remember what your reference was. I'll share what I hear from AO when they get back to me.
Rogerdickey ( talk) 05:04, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Is the rant on largest island in largest lake on largest island, etc really relevant information? Especially considering that it is debatable weather Lake Superior is the largest lake. 195.67.88.222 ( talk) 08:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Are these even real? An editor, User:Rogerdickey, messaged me this:
Hi Herostratus, I wanted to further explore your "island within a lake within an island" assertion, so I bought the book you referenced, "Superior Wilderness" by Napier Shelton, 1997. On page 103, where there is supposed to be some reference to Moose Flats or Moose Boulder, I didn't see anything of the sort. Are you sure you found the reference there? Every reference to Moose Flats on the internet seems to point back to your Wikipedia edit. Does Moose Flats really exist? :)
I put in the ref, but I don't have access to the book "Superior Wilderness" now -- I never had access to a hard copy, but I must have had access online at one time, or I wouldn't have put in the ref, I'm pretty sure. So this's a head-scratcher... I guess I just made a mistake? Before I remove the content (the entire paragraph depends on the existence of Moose Boulder), let me see... the passage referenced is
Ryan Island contains Moose Flats, a seasonal pond, which contains Moose Boulder. When Moose Flats is flooded, Moose Boulder becomes the largest island in the largest lake on the largest island in the largest lake on the largest island in the largest lake in the world by surface area.
and the ref is: Shelton, Napier (1997). Superior Wilderness: Isle Royale National Park. Isle Royale Natural History Association. p. 103. ISBN 0-935289-09-7.
User:Rogerdickey, what does page 103 say? Does it touch on any of this at all? Does it somehow ref the latter part of the passage but not the existence of Moose Boulder or something? Going to keep looking.
Here is something from Atlas Obscura, which seems to be a legit operation which probably doesn't flat make stuff up. It's not a Wikipedia mirror. It says "Usually, Moose Boulder overlooks a patch of often wet, soggy earth. As the floodwaters seep in and a pond forms around it, the boulder becomes one of the most fascinating islands in the world. This flooding of Moose Flats transforms Moose Boulder into..." This is point in favor of Moose Boulder existing. Where they got their info I don't know. If they took it from Wikipedia and changed the prose around and made up the "often wet, soggy" part etc, that'd be journalistic malpractice and also poor long-term business practice, I think, considering their target audience and market positioning. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, tho; overzealous writers do stuff like that all the time, and editors and fact-checkers can't catch everything.
There's also a photo of (what is purported to be) Moose Boulder, in what is presumably Moose Flats in flood state, in that article (you have to scroll). The photo is credited to the "Seafloor Samples Laboratory". None of this proves anything.
Hmnh, this is odd, I created this article in 2014, but this 2009 newspaper article mirrors it. I can't explain that.
So, hmmm. To be continued. Herostratus ( talk) 07:25, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
The picture on Atlas Obscura is not of Moose Boulder, it's a random rock off the coast of Isle Royale. It was taken on Chris Reddy's expedition to Isle Royale to take lake floor core samples in 1998. This appears to be the page where it used to be hosted online - https://web.archive.org/web/20081122120453/http://www.whoi.edu/science/GG/corelab/voyages/siskiwit_s29.html. According to the text, the group never even reached Ryan Island, which is the island where Moose Flats (and Moose Boulder) are said to be. I reached out to Chris Reddy and he had no memory of going to Ryan Island.
The only listed reference on Atlas Obscura is your Wikipedia article, but I reached out to AO to see if they will put me in touch with the author. The post was written by a staff writer, not contributed by a user.
It is bizarrely anachronistic that an article in 2009 references your originally written 2014 article?? How is that possible? The plot thickens.
Please let me know if you can remember what your reference was. I'll share what I hear from AO when they get back to me.
Rogerdickey ( talk) 05:04, 2 June 2019 (UTC)