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I do not know why whenever there is an article on russia or russians, you can feel that they simply stress on this shit slavic roots of all ethnic russians, this is totally false, they begin the history of russians ( Human beings living on the territory of european russia) from somewhere after 500AD, whereas it is fact like the existence of sun that territory of european russia was the land of scythians (sakas) as late as 100AD, and there are countless remains of indo-iranians within the territory of southern Russia and around the urals mountains, and there were finno-ugric people living in north of european russia, what do you think all these sakas, indo-iranians, finno-ugric populations burried themselves alive under the ground of european russia at the time of the arrival of the Slavs. Why it is all the time the Slavic identity that all the european russians are given. If all european russians are slavic then why do they have weird surnames that are most likely scythian, indo-iranian or finno-ugric origin. Why russians can be identified from all other people calling themselves slavs like chezks, slovaks or slovenián, why russians faces and body structures are different from the aforementioned people that are the core of slavs. My question is why russians deny to accept that they are racially a mix of scythian, indo-iranic, finno-ugric and off-course latter arriving Slavs who gave them their present language. Why russians are ashamed of their ancient scythian, indo-iranic, finno-ugric roots, why does there racial history begins with the arrival of Slavs.
Well, it is generally regarded that the Russian culture and language are a legacy of Eastern Slavs. There could be some ethnic mixing with the fins, turks, scythians etc, but those have contributed marginally (if at all) to the developmengt of the russian ethnos. Therefore, in my opinion they should not be regarded as the founders of the Russian race. besides being a slav is much cooler than a turk or a a syth.
actually the scythians were only partially on the land of current day russia and most of there territory was located near the black sea in ukraine were is a separate nation state then russian federation. but its also known that in the time of herodotus when this scythians lived in ukraine there were also early slavic cultures forming in eastern europe. but these early slavic cultures did not evolve into russians for several centuries later and the idea that russians could be decended mostly from the scythians is still not been proven but it is known that early slavic culture and scythians were two separate ethnic groups in roman times. 76.211.5.253 ( talk) 13:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
In the section regarding Russians outside of Russia, I would like to bring up an interesting topic which has been long forgotten, except among a few circles of historians.
(But first, i would like to mention and interesting tidbit: In modern times there are indeed many Russian Jews now residing in Israel. But there is a significant population of Russians residing in Syria, particularly near the hydroelectric dam of Lake Assad along the Euphrates River. During the Soviet era many engineers and scientists were sent to Syria to build the dam, and even after its completion, and after the fall of the USSR, many Russians decided to continue living in Syria.)
It turns out there is a small percentage of families in the Middle East (particularly Syria/Lebanon/Palestine) when tested for genetic origins, are actually East Slav in origin -- haplogroup R1a1 --, not Arab nor other Semitic origin. (There is also yet another group of families that test northwestern European -- haplogroup R1b -- suggesting descent from Crusaders.) Apparently during the Mongol invasions of the 13th century tens of thousands of Slav boys from the Ukraine and the Russian steppe were kidnapped and sold into slavery in the Crimea, where Genoese merchants sold them to Arab buyers. From there these boys were shipped to Cairo and Damascus where they were turned into mamluks. (Mamluks from later centuries came from regions in the Caucasus Mts., but the early mamluks were mainly Slavs, Kipchak Turks, and Circassians.) Initially mamluk men only married daughters of other mamluks, and spoke their native tongues, as they were resistant to speaking Arabic and marrying outside of their race, but with time many of their descendants married into the local population. There is a small mountain town in the Galilee called Safed which was primarily settled by mamluks after the fall of the Templar Knights, and that group remained fairly homogenous well into the 20th century. This is evidenced not only by genetic testing but also by their phenotypical appearance... most of them look "Slavic" (very tall, with fair features). Also some vocabulary words used by older generations are not Arabic, but rather Kipchak, which was a major language of the steppe, even among Slavic people.
If such a "diaspora" as this one occurred in modern times, this would have made headlines as a major human rights violation in human trafficking. Imagine the scores of these East Slav boys that were sold into this "elite" slavery and yearning to return to their families left behind in the steppe.
Tanneen ( talk) 12:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Tanneen
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I have reverted some sloppy edits made by another user, in which another user had to add two fact tags each for Jews and Muslims. I think I know what he tried to do, but he made the page look disheveled. Marcus2 ( talk) 17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
I find this piece of the article very controversial: "Russian people had a large part in the victory over Nazi Germany at World War II". The author paints a picture of galant and brave russians who fought against Nazis but doesn't mention russian involvement in building the strenght of 3rd reich. Thanks to russians Hitler built and trained - inside of soviet union - his armies. Look at Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact also. It was russians and germans who invaded Poland in 1939. And though red army liberated nazi concentration camps, they had nothing againts the idea of building them in the first place. Anyway why would they? They had their own Gulags that devoured millions also. If the author writes about their bravoury he should also mention their on going history of atrocities and abuses towards bordering nations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.141.88 ( talk) 22:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
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The Soviet Union contributed to 80% of the German's casualties and there are links to prove it. If you have some sort of personal vendetta against Russians please don't bring on wikipedia.-- Krotx ( talk) 05:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
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So I added a POV tag as my edits are reverted by a suspected sockuppet. For why the section Notable achievements is inapprorpirate see above, and also the old disucssion at Talk:Russians/Archive_2#The_section_.22Contribution_to_humanity.22_and_the_section_.22Culture.22_is_disputed, a discussion that ended inconclusively, despite the counterfactual claim that a consensus has been reached. Also note that inappropriate canvassing is going on by God of Sins. Novidmarana ( talk) 18:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
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I have entered the article and in the History saw the reverts done by Novidmarna, saying the revert she did was "per talk". The funny thing is what she did was against what was said by mose people in the Talk. Bakharev said deleting WW2 from the Russians is like deleting the holocaust from the Jews. He is right Ostap also said that the version including WW2 is better and simply needs more referencing. Novidmarana, you can't change the article when there is no agreement. If you stated what you oppose to on the talk page to doesn't alow you that becuase there are many people deciding not just you. I'm sexy, I'm hot, I'm everything your not ( talk) 19:44, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
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well, despite the pact with germany, hitler did attack russia and "Russian people [did actually] had a large part in the victory over Nazi Germany". nobody said they were nice, they did however took over berlin and they did play a crucial role in bringing down the nazi regime.
http://statehistory.ru/650/poteri-v-vov/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.152.38 ( talk) 08:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
...Russian art is very important..., Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, and Tola Brennan. What is this "Tola Brennan" link to "The National (Band)" ???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.28.162.54 ( talk) 03:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
And where are the Viking origins of the Russians? Where is the term Rus explained? What where the earlier tribes like? Migdejong ( talk) 14:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
There are plenty of Jews in Russia. Sure, some of them are Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Moldovans Turkics, Tartars, and Mongols, ( Khazars), (a lot, in fact), but there is a large amount of Jews in Russia who are ethnic Russians. In fact, my family is Jewish Russians. I am offended that it does not mention the fact that some Russians are Jewish. Yes, about half are Americans of Russian descent, like me, but we are still Russian, no? I am putting Jewish Russians in the "Religion" Category.-- 67.80.57.142 ( talk) 03:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC) GooglePedia12
I've never heard about anything like that. The closest you will come to an ethnic Russian who is Jewish is a person from the CIS who made Aliyah to Israel but has an Jewish Father, and henceforth isn't a Jew by rabbinical law and some of them convert to make things easier for themselves. I'm sorry but unless you bring reliable proof for your claims this is a load of bs, personal "research" has no place on Wikipedia and frankly this is freaking ridiculous. -- Krotx ( talk) 17:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
In this context Subbotniks (Russians who converted to Judaism) may be mentioned. Olegwiki ( talk) 09:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The version 12:16, 25 March 2009 Spitfire of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.-- Wing ( talk) 20:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is about ethnic Russians, not about Russian speaking people. There's more than a million people in Israel who speak Russian as a native language (those who immigrated from the former Soviet Union in the last 20 years), but most of them belong to the Jewish people, not to the Russian people. In Israel they are refferred as "Russians" in the daily speech, but only a minority of them are ethnic Russians. Btw, a large percentage of the Russian speaking Israelis are not even from Russia, but from Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan etc, so not even they are not ethnic Russian, they even never were Russian citizens. The number 1,100,000 is not correct, and the " source" doesn't even mention Israel, it's a page about demographic statistic in Kyrgyzstan!!! And don't start saying stuff like "the Russian speaking Jews are Russians with a different religion", cause by that "logic" Jewish people doesn't exist at all. 77.127.239.165 ( talk) 12:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
How can a link to a wiki article about a liitle known Russian ethnographer can be considered a valid reference to proove a very contraversial theory about "southern and northern Russians being more different than Russians and Belorussians" ? This is nonesense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fisenko ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Do not write religion an Islam and Judaism. Russian Ethnic Group believes in Orthodox Christianity, she is main religion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew Shane ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
hi Im from Argentina , i found this page , (from the russian embassy in argentina and is in spanish) that says that in argentina lives over 1000000 persons of russian ancesstry , i tried to change the data , but i found it was very difficult , so could somebody help change it ?, thanks http://www.argentina.mid.ru/ESP/RusiaArgentina/RusosEnArgentinaS.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.3.217.177 ( talk) 22:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I came across this article and liked the mosaic image that was used in the infobox. I want to use a similar format for the Malayali article that I am working on. It was just posted as an image called Russians mosaic. Can someone show me how to make something similar mosaic. Thanks for the help. JNG71886 ( talk) 23:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
How can you put Lenin´s picture in the box? First, it is very controversial and second he was not russian, he was a jew.-- Mr nonono ( talk) 16:22, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Could someone explain me what is a photo of Lenin doing on front page while famous people like Lermontov and Kalashnikov (just an example) are absent? Read the first paragraph - "The Russian people are an ethnic group of the East Slavic peoples". First of all Lenin wasnt even Russian and I'm not even speaking of controversies surrounding this man. Remove him ASAP 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 13:46, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
The main reason Lenin have to go is not just because he is controversial figure but because he is not Russian, period. Pushkin who was 3/4 Russian or Korolyov who was 100% Slavic are comlectly different cases. Lenin had Jew, Kalmyk, Chuvash, German and God knows how much non-Russian, non-Slavic blood in him, thats the reason he have to go. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 19:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
As a citizen of the Russian empire Lenin is Russian. As a speaker of Russian he is Russian. What do they say -
Папа турок, маты грек А я русскый человек!
However, I do believe there are better more deserving people. Say Tchaikovsky. Everyone sings Tchaikovsky's music, or Rimsky Korsakov, or Prokofiev or Yul Bryner or Natalie Wood...
Maybe it may be worth adding a section on famous Russians outside of Russia? -- Bandurist ( talk) 19:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
"As a citizen of the Russian empire Lenin is Russian. As a speaker of Russian he is Russian"
Citizenship of Russian Empire/Federation and/or Russophony has nothing to do with ethnicity, how about you read the very first paragraph of this article? "The Russian people (русские, russkiye) are an ethnic group of the East Slavic peoples" You dont have to be a genious to realize Lenin is not even Slavic, let alone Russian. This article is about Russians, not citizens of Russia.
As for "Папа турок, маты грек А я русскый человек!" What this joke has anything to do with our curret subject? (You *do* realize it's a joke, right?)
Anyway I'm curious why Lenin's photo is still there, it was quite clear that he is not Russian in first place and yet he's been hanging there for weeks. This whole discussion seem like a waste of time to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 23:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I feel uncomfortable using pics of living persons here, but the copyright status of many of the older pictures (unless they are really old) is far from clear. Anyway, here are some free pics of celebrities; not all of them are purebred, though:
And there is a better picture of Anna Pavlova: this one. Thoughts? Colchicum ( talk) 18:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. I am not convinced that paintings are useful here. What about Ivan Pavlov, Sergei Prokofiev or Constantin Stanislavski instead of, say, Pushkin, Lomonosov, Peter the Great, or especially "D. Donskoy", as he is incorrectly captioned here, hehe? And File:DIMendeleevCab.jpg instead of File:Dmitry Mendeleev 140-190 for collage.jpg. There is no shortage of more widely known, more accurately portrayed and less controversial men. By the way, I am confused as to what this poster is supposed to show, great Russians or typical Russians. Colchicum ( talk) 16:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Lenin is back, I think its about time people realized putting Lenin's picture in mosaic was nothing but vandalism in first place. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 13:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I've already read this article. It is good article, but I think it hasn't interesting facts enough.
About culture There is only one part of culture here. Russian culture is more wide. It also consists of folk songs, village peasantry culture (the most interesting, I think). If you want to learn about Russian culture, I can advice you to learn Russian language and to read sites in Russian.
About "Zelenin's theory", Scythian origin of most of Russians, Rurik, Vikings. It is about "Norman theory about formation of the Old State", written by German scientists Sclozer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Ludwig_von_Schlözer, Bayer and Muller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhardt_Friedrich_Müller in 18st century. They thought that Slavic people weren't developed enough to form a state and thought that the state was "exported" from Scandinavia to Rus. They thought that Russian ethnos was formed from German or Scandinavian ethoses.
Modern historical science consider "Norman theory" to be wrong. Scandinavians took part in formation of Russian state in 960s-980s, but their role was exaggerate a lot by German scientists. A state can't be "exported". The definite level of social development is necessary to form state. Slavic folks were developed a lot (for example, they had special forms of democracy). Scandinavians didn't made large influence to social institutes of Slavic folks. There are little influence to Russian culture from Scandinavians (borrowings in language are "варежки", "сельдь"). Less than from Byzantine Empire, West Slavic folks, South Slavic folks, Arabians, Finno-Ugrs, Turks.
Legends about formation of state by foreign guests are similar to Middle-Age history. It's like foundation of Rome by Rumon or Rumen, foundation of English state by Anglo-Saxons ect.
Religion. The terms "russkiy" (Ruissians people by nationality, русские) and "rossiyanin" (people, who live in Russia, россияне) should be separated. Most of russkiys are Orthodox Christians. Other rossiyane are different: they can believe Islam (Tatars, for example), or Judaism, or Buddism (Altaytsy, for exaple).
NB!I want to make sociological research about Russia and Rusians. And I want to gather frequently asked by foreign people questions. Futher more, I can explain your questions about Russia, Russian culture, Russian lenguage ect. You can ask questions to arkuchinov@yandex.ru.
95.27.5.184 (
talk) 18:01, 30 October 2010 (UTC)Artemiy (russkiy)
This article is about ethnic Russians. It also makes mention that in English (and perhaps other languages) 'Russians' means anyone from the land of Russia, regardless of ethnic background. This can can include Jews, Ukrainians, etc. This can be found by looking at the WP articles that concern Russians in other countries--they are inclusive of both ethnic and non-ethnic Russians. There is nothing insulting about the statements in this article; it is just stating how words are used in another language. This is clarification to help people understand. The business of an Encyclopedia is understanding. Hmains ( talk) 04:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
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The opening definition for the article states that: "The English term Russians is used to refer to the citizens of Russia, regardless of their ethnicity...". But is this really correct? Personally I would almost never use it in that way, I would never, for instance, refer to a Chechen as a "Russian", would anybody? I would contend that in English the term "Russian" does indeed refer to ethnic Russians, and not other nationalities living under Russian rule. I believe that the naming definition given is the wrong way round, the Russian term russkiye is what would be translated into English as "Russian", the other term rossiyanin has no direct English translation, except perhaps "Russian Citizen". -- Hibernian ( talk) 21:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC) Agreed, opening is wrong. Russkiy is the only word that can be translated as "Russian", only ignorant people call Chechens, Tatars and Jews "Russians". Russian term "Rossiyanin" a politically correct neologism that has no English translation at all. "Rossiyanin" is not even nationality, thats just a word to describe someone who lives in Russia/has Russian citizenship. Rossiyanin=/=Russian, Russkiy is Russian and in Russian language Enlgish word "Russian" virtually always translated as "Russkiy" not "Rossiyanin" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 07:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC) Russkiy is the only word that can be translated as Russian. And the ethnic Russians and Russians are the same.
English/American definition of who or what is "Russian" is irrelevant as they dont have any right to define who is Russian and who isnt. Russians on the other hand do and its quite obvious Russian definition should be used. Instead of playing along with American stupidity/ignorance and reinforcing dumb stereotypes it should've been pointed out long ago that ethnic Russians and Russians are the same, there isnt such a thing as non-ethnic Russian because "Russian" itself is ethnicity. Just because Americans/English abuse word "Russian" and constantly try giving it some entirely different meaning does not mean Wikipedia should use fucked up definitions. Just check articles on who's "White" by American standards or articles like "Russian American" wich lists pretty much ANYONE but Russians (and yet these people are labelled as "Русские Американцы") and you'll realize why proper and correct RUSSIAN definition on who is Russian should be used at all times.
"Unless you can provide a native-language reliable source stating that "Russian" is now indeed used only for the ethnicity in English" I never meant to discuss fucked up American/English definitions. I just want a note in this article that points out that the way Americans and English use word "Russian" is WRONG and in Russia, word "Russian" is reserved for only Russians, not citizens of Russia regardless of their nationality(ethnicity) and that not every citizen of Russia is Russian. To a certain extent it was already done, but not enough since text is still confusing. Also claim that Rossiyanin=Russian is still wrong regardless of how Anglophones use word "Russian"
It is WRONG and it must be edited everywhere starting with your brains! "russkiy" = Russian, and "rossiyanin" = rossiyanin (political word to describe citizens of Russia). OMG! OMG! LOL! got that???????????????? "in Russian, the demonym Russian is translated as rossiyanin (россиянин, plural rossiyane)" Are you even listening to me? "Russian" in Russian language translated as Русский, not Россиянин. Россиянин is something very different and it DOES NOT have english translation AT ALL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 08:03, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Are you trying to troll/provoke me or something? English word "Russian" is Русский in Russian. Not Россиянин. Rossiyanin is politically correct bullshit and thats about it. Word (in its curret meaning) is like 20 years old, what kind of "historical misunderstanding" you're talking about? 20-30 years ago word Россиянин didnt even exist, yet word Russian did. And it did exist for centures and was always translated as Русский. Nothing changed now, Rossiayanin means something entirely different than Русский(Russian)
lol Illythr, i don't care what you think or what the english dictionaries say. every normal human understands that Russians and ethnic Russians are the same. Russians are ethnic group of the White/Aryan race. And Rossiyane are citizens of Russia regardless of their ethnicity, because Russia is a multi ethnic country. got that or not? or is this too difficult concept for you to grasp? lol Illythr, Тебя в Гугле забанили? Набери ка там "R1a" и попадешь в чудесный мир ДНК генеалогии. Ну или хотя бы поищи слово "гаплогруппа". А лучше ищи на английском, если им владеешь. Узнаешь, что русские (не россияне) - самые настоящие арийцы (в отличии от тех же немцев). Вперед, к включению мозга! ты сам-то русский? или продался жидо-масонам? We don't care about your stupid sources, dictionaries and other bullshit!!! We are Russkie (Russians, White, Aryan, Christian people from Russia) and We are telling to the world that our ethnic name is translated to/from english as RUSSIANS. Accept this or die. White Power! |
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I don't understand why Russians here are called 'an ethnic group'. How much east-slavic one should be to pass as a Russian? Some people in the mosaic had mixed or obscure ethnicities and it's unclear how far one should go into a pedigree chart to come up with a positive or negative conclusion. I understand that the mosaic's only purpose is 'to look nice', however it's only natural too see people such as Lenin in there, since he clearly identified himself as 'Russkiy' and was probably one of the most known Russians world-wide. The article further says that 'according to the 2002 census ethnic Russians make up about 80% of the population of Russia'. Well? How is that relevant then if Lenin was not Russian even considering himself as one. Census simply points out of how many people said they are such and such. Isn't that contradictory? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.46.179.89 ( talk) 21:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
The Jewish-Bolsheivks not only killed Nicholas II and his wife and children. But they also killed his brother Mikhail, and 7 of his cousins who were Grand Dukes and princes of Russia! Nicholas Constantine, Dimitri Constantinovich, Paul Alexandrovich, Vladimir Pavlovich, Constantine Constantinovich, Oleg Constantinovich, Igor Constantinovich. Tsarist Russia was much stronger and healthier than communist Russia. Tsarist Russia had positive birthrates and was a moral country. Tsarist Russia was a danger to Western imperialism and that is why the West sent Lenin to cause genocide against the Russians. Lenin and Stalin organized genocide against the Russian Orthodox population and annexed Russian territories to neighboring nations. Hitler followed Lenin and Stalin and murdered millions of Russians. That is the TRUTH you all must know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.121.23 ( talk) 00:07, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Because he is not Russian. How fucking stupid you can be to ask same question again and again and again even though it's been answered long time ago. Being Russian is not about identification, its about bloodline. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 10:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
I can't see this as true. Actually when I travel to Siberia I found a lot of russians with blonde hair and blue eyes. Siberian russians are mostly recent migrants, I can't see how they differ genetically with the Russians living in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.73.78.62 ( talk) 08:42, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be an edit war here. The version of Lionenause/ Shanesterman is clearly not suitable for Wiki as it is poorly written:
I am not sure what is wrong with the alternative that causes such rigorous edit warring. Can you explain your grievances on talk rather than revert to a poorily written version? Alex Bakharev ( talk) 20:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
how about dropping the whole "east slavic" thing and do the article more neutral, danes are not germanic (if you look on talk/history of the page) so lets just use the standard nation and ethic group thing Lionenause ( talk) 21:04, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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I do not know why whenever there is an article on russia or russians, you can feel that they simply stress on this shit slavic roots of all ethnic russians, this is totally false, they begin the history of russians ( Human beings living on the territory of european russia) from somewhere after 500AD, whereas it is fact like the existence of sun that territory of european russia was the land of scythians (sakas) as late as 100AD, and there are countless remains of indo-iranians within the territory of southern Russia and around the urals mountains, and there were finno-ugric people living in north of european russia, what do you think all these sakas, indo-iranians, finno-ugric populations burried themselves alive under the ground of european russia at the time of the arrival of the Slavs. Why it is all the time the Slavic identity that all the european russians are given. If all european russians are slavic then why do they have weird surnames that are most likely scythian, indo-iranian or finno-ugric origin. Why russians can be identified from all other people calling themselves slavs like chezks, slovaks or slovenián, why russians faces and body structures are different from the aforementioned people that are the core of slavs. My question is why russians deny to accept that they are racially a mix of scythian, indo-iranic, finno-ugric and off-course latter arriving Slavs who gave them their present language. Why russians are ashamed of their ancient scythian, indo-iranic, finno-ugric roots, why does there racial history begins with the arrival of Slavs.
Well, it is generally regarded that the Russian culture and language are a legacy of Eastern Slavs. There could be some ethnic mixing with the fins, turks, scythians etc, but those have contributed marginally (if at all) to the developmengt of the russian ethnos. Therefore, in my opinion they should not be regarded as the founders of the Russian race. besides being a slav is much cooler than a turk or a a syth.
actually the scythians were only partially on the land of current day russia and most of there territory was located near the black sea in ukraine were is a separate nation state then russian federation. but its also known that in the time of herodotus when this scythians lived in ukraine there were also early slavic cultures forming in eastern europe. but these early slavic cultures did not evolve into russians for several centuries later and the idea that russians could be decended mostly from the scythians is still not been proven but it is known that early slavic culture and scythians were two separate ethnic groups in roman times. 76.211.5.253 ( talk) 13:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
In the section regarding Russians outside of Russia, I would like to bring up an interesting topic which has been long forgotten, except among a few circles of historians.
(But first, i would like to mention and interesting tidbit: In modern times there are indeed many Russian Jews now residing in Israel. But there is a significant population of Russians residing in Syria, particularly near the hydroelectric dam of Lake Assad along the Euphrates River. During the Soviet era many engineers and scientists were sent to Syria to build the dam, and even after its completion, and after the fall of the USSR, many Russians decided to continue living in Syria.)
It turns out there is a small percentage of families in the Middle East (particularly Syria/Lebanon/Palestine) when tested for genetic origins, are actually East Slav in origin -- haplogroup R1a1 --, not Arab nor other Semitic origin. (There is also yet another group of families that test northwestern European -- haplogroup R1b -- suggesting descent from Crusaders.) Apparently during the Mongol invasions of the 13th century tens of thousands of Slav boys from the Ukraine and the Russian steppe were kidnapped and sold into slavery in the Crimea, where Genoese merchants sold them to Arab buyers. From there these boys were shipped to Cairo and Damascus where they were turned into mamluks. (Mamluks from later centuries came from regions in the Caucasus Mts., but the early mamluks were mainly Slavs, Kipchak Turks, and Circassians.) Initially mamluk men only married daughters of other mamluks, and spoke their native tongues, as they were resistant to speaking Arabic and marrying outside of their race, but with time many of their descendants married into the local population. There is a small mountain town in the Galilee called Safed which was primarily settled by mamluks after the fall of the Templar Knights, and that group remained fairly homogenous well into the 20th century. This is evidenced not only by genetic testing but also by their phenotypical appearance... most of them look "Slavic" (very tall, with fair features). Also some vocabulary words used by older generations are not Arabic, but rather Kipchak, which was a major language of the steppe, even among Slavic people.
If such a "diaspora" as this one occurred in modern times, this would have made headlines as a major human rights violation in human trafficking. Imagine the scores of these East Slav boys that were sold into this "elite" slavery and yearning to return to their families left behind in the steppe.
Tanneen ( talk) 12:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Tanneen
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I have reverted some sloppy edits made by another user, in which another user had to add two fact tags each for Jews and Muslims. I think I know what he tried to do, but he made the page look disheveled. Marcus2 ( talk) 17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
I find this piece of the article very controversial: "Russian people had a large part in the victory over Nazi Germany at World War II". The author paints a picture of galant and brave russians who fought against Nazis but doesn't mention russian involvement in building the strenght of 3rd reich. Thanks to russians Hitler built and trained - inside of soviet union - his armies. Look at Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact also. It was russians and germans who invaded Poland in 1939. And though red army liberated nazi concentration camps, they had nothing againts the idea of building them in the first place. Anyway why would they? They had their own Gulags that devoured millions also. If the author writes about their bravoury he should also mention their on going history of atrocities and abuses towards bordering nations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.141.88 ( talk) 22:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
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The Soviet Union contributed to 80% of the German's casualties and there are links to prove it. If you have some sort of personal vendetta against Russians please don't bring on wikipedia.-- Krotx ( talk) 05:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
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So I added a POV tag as my edits are reverted by a suspected sockuppet. For why the section Notable achievements is inapprorpirate see above, and also the old disucssion at Talk:Russians/Archive_2#The_section_.22Contribution_to_humanity.22_and_the_section_.22Culture.22_is_disputed, a discussion that ended inconclusively, despite the counterfactual claim that a consensus has been reached. Also note that inappropriate canvassing is going on by God of Sins. Novidmarana ( talk) 18:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
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I have entered the article and in the History saw the reverts done by Novidmarna, saying the revert she did was "per talk". The funny thing is what she did was against what was said by mose people in the Talk. Bakharev said deleting WW2 from the Russians is like deleting the holocaust from the Jews. He is right Ostap also said that the version including WW2 is better and simply needs more referencing. Novidmarana, you can't change the article when there is no agreement. If you stated what you oppose to on the talk page to doesn't alow you that becuase there are many people deciding not just you. I'm sexy, I'm hot, I'm everything your not ( talk) 19:44, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
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well, despite the pact with germany, hitler did attack russia and "Russian people [did actually] had a large part in the victory over Nazi Germany". nobody said they were nice, they did however took over berlin and they did play a crucial role in bringing down the nazi regime.
http://statehistory.ru/650/poteri-v-vov/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.152.38 ( talk) 08:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
...Russian art is very important..., Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, and Tola Brennan. What is this "Tola Brennan" link to "The National (Band)" ???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.28.162.54 ( talk) 03:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
And where are the Viking origins of the Russians? Where is the term Rus explained? What where the earlier tribes like? Migdejong ( talk) 14:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
There are plenty of Jews in Russia. Sure, some of them are Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Moldovans Turkics, Tartars, and Mongols, ( Khazars), (a lot, in fact), but there is a large amount of Jews in Russia who are ethnic Russians. In fact, my family is Jewish Russians. I am offended that it does not mention the fact that some Russians are Jewish. Yes, about half are Americans of Russian descent, like me, but we are still Russian, no? I am putting Jewish Russians in the "Religion" Category.-- 67.80.57.142 ( talk) 03:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC) GooglePedia12
I've never heard about anything like that. The closest you will come to an ethnic Russian who is Jewish is a person from the CIS who made Aliyah to Israel but has an Jewish Father, and henceforth isn't a Jew by rabbinical law and some of them convert to make things easier for themselves. I'm sorry but unless you bring reliable proof for your claims this is a load of bs, personal "research" has no place on Wikipedia and frankly this is freaking ridiculous. -- Krotx ( talk) 17:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
In this context Subbotniks (Russians who converted to Judaism) may be mentioned. Olegwiki ( talk) 09:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The version 12:16, 25 March 2009 Spitfire of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.-- Wing ( talk) 20:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is about ethnic Russians, not about Russian speaking people. There's more than a million people in Israel who speak Russian as a native language (those who immigrated from the former Soviet Union in the last 20 years), but most of them belong to the Jewish people, not to the Russian people. In Israel they are refferred as "Russians" in the daily speech, but only a minority of them are ethnic Russians. Btw, a large percentage of the Russian speaking Israelis are not even from Russia, but from Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan etc, so not even they are not ethnic Russian, they even never were Russian citizens. The number 1,100,000 is not correct, and the " source" doesn't even mention Israel, it's a page about demographic statistic in Kyrgyzstan!!! And don't start saying stuff like "the Russian speaking Jews are Russians with a different religion", cause by that "logic" Jewish people doesn't exist at all. 77.127.239.165 ( talk) 12:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
How can a link to a wiki article about a liitle known Russian ethnographer can be considered a valid reference to proove a very contraversial theory about "southern and northern Russians being more different than Russians and Belorussians" ? This is nonesense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fisenko ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Do not write religion an Islam and Judaism. Russian Ethnic Group believes in Orthodox Christianity, she is main religion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew Shane ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
hi Im from Argentina , i found this page , (from the russian embassy in argentina and is in spanish) that says that in argentina lives over 1000000 persons of russian ancesstry , i tried to change the data , but i found it was very difficult , so could somebody help change it ?, thanks http://www.argentina.mid.ru/ESP/RusiaArgentina/RusosEnArgentinaS.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.3.217.177 ( talk) 22:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I came across this article and liked the mosaic image that was used in the infobox. I want to use a similar format for the Malayali article that I am working on. It was just posted as an image called Russians mosaic. Can someone show me how to make something similar mosaic. Thanks for the help. JNG71886 ( talk) 23:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
How can you put Lenin´s picture in the box? First, it is very controversial and second he was not russian, he was a jew.-- Mr nonono ( talk) 16:22, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Could someone explain me what is a photo of Lenin doing on front page while famous people like Lermontov and Kalashnikov (just an example) are absent? Read the first paragraph - "The Russian people are an ethnic group of the East Slavic peoples". First of all Lenin wasnt even Russian and I'm not even speaking of controversies surrounding this man. Remove him ASAP 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 13:46, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
The main reason Lenin have to go is not just because he is controversial figure but because he is not Russian, period. Pushkin who was 3/4 Russian or Korolyov who was 100% Slavic are comlectly different cases. Lenin had Jew, Kalmyk, Chuvash, German and God knows how much non-Russian, non-Slavic blood in him, thats the reason he have to go. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 19:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
As a citizen of the Russian empire Lenin is Russian. As a speaker of Russian he is Russian. What do they say -
Папа турок, маты грек А я русскый человек!
However, I do believe there are better more deserving people. Say Tchaikovsky. Everyone sings Tchaikovsky's music, or Rimsky Korsakov, or Prokofiev or Yul Bryner or Natalie Wood...
Maybe it may be worth adding a section on famous Russians outside of Russia? -- Bandurist ( talk) 19:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
"As a citizen of the Russian empire Lenin is Russian. As a speaker of Russian he is Russian"
Citizenship of Russian Empire/Federation and/or Russophony has nothing to do with ethnicity, how about you read the very first paragraph of this article? "The Russian people (русские, russkiye) are an ethnic group of the East Slavic peoples" You dont have to be a genious to realize Lenin is not even Slavic, let alone Russian. This article is about Russians, not citizens of Russia.
As for "Папа турок, маты грек А я русскый человек!" What this joke has anything to do with our curret subject? (You *do* realize it's a joke, right?)
Anyway I'm curious why Lenin's photo is still there, it was quite clear that he is not Russian in first place and yet he's been hanging there for weeks. This whole discussion seem like a waste of time to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 23:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I feel uncomfortable using pics of living persons here, but the copyright status of many of the older pictures (unless they are really old) is far from clear. Anyway, here are some free pics of celebrities; not all of them are purebred, though:
And there is a better picture of Anna Pavlova: this one. Thoughts? Colchicum ( talk) 18:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. I am not convinced that paintings are useful here. What about Ivan Pavlov, Sergei Prokofiev or Constantin Stanislavski instead of, say, Pushkin, Lomonosov, Peter the Great, or especially "D. Donskoy", as he is incorrectly captioned here, hehe? And File:DIMendeleevCab.jpg instead of File:Dmitry Mendeleev 140-190 for collage.jpg. There is no shortage of more widely known, more accurately portrayed and less controversial men. By the way, I am confused as to what this poster is supposed to show, great Russians or typical Russians. Colchicum ( talk) 16:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Lenin is back, I think its about time people realized putting Lenin's picture in mosaic was nothing but vandalism in first place. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 13:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I've already read this article. It is good article, but I think it hasn't interesting facts enough.
About culture There is only one part of culture here. Russian culture is more wide. It also consists of folk songs, village peasantry culture (the most interesting, I think). If you want to learn about Russian culture, I can advice you to learn Russian language and to read sites in Russian.
About "Zelenin's theory", Scythian origin of most of Russians, Rurik, Vikings. It is about "Norman theory about formation of the Old State", written by German scientists Sclozer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Ludwig_von_Schlözer, Bayer and Muller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhardt_Friedrich_Müller in 18st century. They thought that Slavic people weren't developed enough to form a state and thought that the state was "exported" from Scandinavia to Rus. They thought that Russian ethnos was formed from German or Scandinavian ethoses.
Modern historical science consider "Norman theory" to be wrong. Scandinavians took part in formation of Russian state in 960s-980s, but their role was exaggerate a lot by German scientists. A state can't be "exported". The definite level of social development is necessary to form state. Slavic folks were developed a lot (for example, they had special forms of democracy). Scandinavians didn't made large influence to social institutes of Slavic folks. There are little influence to Russian culture from Scandinavians (borrowings in language are "варежки", "сельдь"). Less than from Byzantine Empire, West Slavic folks, South Slavic folks, Arabians, Finno-Ugrs, Turks.
Legends about formation of state by foreign guests are similar to Middle-Age history. It's like foundation of Rome by Rumon or Rumen, foundation of English state by Anglo-Saxons ect.
Religion. The terms "russkiy" (Ruissians people by nationality, русские) and "rossiyanin" (people, who live in Russia, россияне) should be separated. Most of russkiys are Orthodox Christians. Other rossiyane are different: they can believe Islam (Tatars, for example), or Judaism, or Buddism (Altaytsy, for exaple).
NB!I want to make sociological research about Russia and Rusians. And I want to gather frequently asked by foreign people questions. Futher more, I can explain your questions about Russia, Russian culture, Russian lenguage ect. You can ask questions to arkuchinov@yandex.ru.
95.27.5.184 (
talk) 18:01, 30 October 2010 (UTC)Artemiy (russkiy)
This article is about ethnic Russians. It also makes mention that in English (and perhaps other languages) 'Russians' means anyone from the land of Russia, regardless of ethnic background. This can can include Jews, Ukrainians, etc. This can be found by looking at the WP articles that concern Russians in other countries--they are inclusive of both ethnic and non-ethnic Russians. There is nothing insulting about the statements in this article; it is just stating how words are used in another language. This is clarification to help people understand. The business of an Encyclopedia is understanding. Hmains ( talk) 04:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
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The opening definition for the article states that: "The English term Russians is used to refer to the citizens of Russia, regardless of their ethnicity...". But is this really correct? Personally I would almost never use it in that way, I would never, for instance, refer to a Chechen as a "Russian", would anybody? I would contend that in English the term "Russian" does indeed refer to ethnic Russians, and not other nationalities living under Russian rule. I believe that the naming definition given is the wrong way round, the Russian term russkiye is what would be translated into English as "Russian", the other term rossiyanin has no direct English translation, except perhaps "Russian Citizen". -- Hibernian ( talk) 21:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC) Agreed, opening is wrong. Russkiy is the only word that can be translated as "Russian", only ignorant people call Chechens, Tatars and Jews "Russians". Russian term "Rossiyanin" a politically correct neologism that has no English translation at all. "Rossiyanin" is not even nationality, thats just a word to describe someone who lives in Russia/has Russian citizenship. Rossiyanin=/=Russian, Russkiy is Russian and in Russian language Enlgish word "Russian" virtually always translated as "Russkiy" not "Rossiyanin" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 07:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC) Russkiy is the only word that can be translated as Russian. And the ethnic Russians and Russians are the same.
English/American definition of who or what is "Russian" is irrelevant as they dont have any right to define who is Russian and who isnt. Russians on the other hand do and its quite obvious Russian definition should be used. Instead of playing along with American stupidity/ignorance and reinforcing dumb stereotypes it should've been pointed out long ago that ethnic Russians and Russians are the same, there isnt such a thing as non-ethnic Russian because "Russian" itself is ethnicity. Just because Americans/English abuse word "Russian" and constantly try giving it some entirely different meaning does not mean Wikipedia should use fucked up definitions. Just check articles on who's "White" by American standards or articles like "Russian American" wich lists pretty much ANYONE but Russians (and yet these people are labelled as "Русские Американцы") and you'll realize why proper and correct RUSSIAN definition on who is Russian should be used at all times.
"Unless you can provide a native-language reliable source stating that "Russian" is now indeed used only for the ethnicity in English" I never meant to discuss fucked up American/English definitions. I just want a note in this article that points out that the way Americans and English use word "Russian" is WRONG and in Russia, word "Russian" is reserved for only Russians, not citizens of Russia regardless of their nationality(ethnicity) and that not every citizen of Russia is Russian. To a certain extent it was already done, but not enough since text is still confusing. Also claim that Rossiyanin=Russian is still wrong regardless of how Anglophones use word "Russian"
It is WRONG and it must be edited everywhere starting with your brains! "russkiy" = Russian, and "rossiyanin" = rossiyanin (political word to describe citizens of Russia). OMG! OMG! LOL! got that???????????????? "in Russian, the demonym Russian is translated as rossiyanin (россиянин, plural rossiyane)" Are you even listening to me? "Russian" in Russian language translated as Русский, not Россиянин. Россиянин is something very different and it DOES NOT have english translation AT ALL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 08:03, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Are you trying to troll/provoke me or something? English word "Russian" is Русский in Russian. Not Россиянин. Rossiyanin is politically correct bullshit and thats about it. Word (in its curret meaning) is like 20 years old, what kind of "historical misunderstanding" you're talking about? 20-30 years ago word Россиянин didnt even exist, yet word Russian did. And it did exist for centures and was always translated as Русский. Nothing changed now, Rossiayanin means something entirely different than Русский(Russian)
lol Illythr, i don't care what you think or what the english dictionaries say. every normal human understands that Russians and ethnic Russians are the same. Russians are ethnic group of the White/Aryan race. And Rossiyane are citizens of Russia regardless of their ethnicity, because Russia is a multi ethnic country. got that or not? or is this too difficult concept for you to grasp? lol Illythr, Тебя в Гугле забанили? Набери ка там "R1a" и попадешь в чудесный мир ДНК генеалогии. Ну или хотя бы поищи слово "гаплогруппа". А лучше ищи на английском, если им владеешь. Узнаешь, что русские (не россияне) - самые настоящие арийцы (в отличии от тех же немцев). Вперед, к включению мозга! ты сам-то русский? или продался жидо-масонам? We don't care about your stupid sources, dictionaries and other bullshit!!! We are Russkie (Russians, White, Aryan, Christian people from Russia) and We are telling to the world that our ethnic name is translated to/from english as RUSSIANS. Accept this or die. White Power! |
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I don't understand why Russians here are called 'an ethnic group'. How much east-slavic one should be to pass as a Russian? Some people in the mosaic had mixed or obscure ethnicities and it's unclear how far one should go into a pedigree chart to come up with a positive or negative conclusion. I understand that the mosaic's only purpose is 'to look nice', however it's only natural too see people such as Lenin in there, since he clearly identified himself as 'Russkiy' and was probably one of the most known Russians world-wide. The article further says that 'according to the 2002 census ethnic Russians make up about 80% of the population of Russia'. Well? How is that relevant then if Lenin was not Russian even considering himself as one. Census simply points out of how many people said they are such and such. Isn't that contradictory? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.46.179.89 ( talk) 21:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
The Jewish-Bolsheivks not only killed Nicholas II and his wife and children. But they also killed his brother Mikhail, and 7 of his cousins who were Grand Dukes and princes of Russia! Nicholas Constantine, Dimitri Constantinovich, Paul Alexandrovich, Vladimir Pavlovich, Constantine Constantinovich, Oleg Constantinovich, Igor Constantinovich. Tsarist Russia was much stronger and healthier than communist Russia. Tsarist Russia had positive birthrates and was a moral country. Tsarist Russia was a danger to Western imperialism and that is why the West sent Lenin to cause genocide against the Russians. Lenin and Stalin organized genocide against the Russian Orthodox population and annexed Russian territories to neighboring nations. Hitler followed Lenin and Stalin and murdered millions of Russians. That is the TRUTH you all must know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.121.23 ( talk) 00:07, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Because he is not Russian. How fucking stupid you can be to ask same question again and again and again even though it's been answered long time ago. Being Russian is not about identification, its about bloodline. 213.148.166.210 ( talk) 10:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
I can't see this as true. Actually when I travel to Siberia I found a lot of russians with blonde hair and blue eyes. Siberian russians are mostly recent migrants, I can't see how they differ genetically with the Russians living in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.73.78.62 ( talk) 08:42, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be an edit war here. The version of Lionenause/ Shanesterman is clearly not suitable for Wiki as it is poorly written:
I am not sure what is wrong with the alternative that causes such rigorous edit warring. Can you explain your grievances on talk rather than revert to a poorily written version? Alex Bakharev ( talk) 20:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
how about dropping the whole "east slavic" thing and do the article more neutral, danes are not germanic (if you look on talk/history of the page) so lets just use the standard nation and ethic group thing Lionenause ( talk) 21:04, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
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