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I wonder whether Russian "contributors to humanity" of last 90 years are omitted on purpose or by some mistake? No any single Nobel prize winner, no writers, only few composers. Probably not all the famous Soviet artists, authors and scientists were ethnically Russian, but still there are quite a few. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.236.19.141 ( talk) 00:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
Response: I gave there names of Scientists/Inventors who have made some of the most importent discoveries in Science, some of the most importent inventions. The Noble Prise is a very controversial thing. Tolstoy, the greatest novelist was nominated but didn't win, while hundreeds of writers who are week and forgotten, won it. Dostoyevski, Pushkin, and many others didnt have it, so what? Russian composers: Chikovski is one of the greatest (If not the greatest) composers ever. Many other composers (Rachmaninoff, Rimski-Korsakov, Shostakovich, Prokofiev) are among the best ever in the world. Dont forget that the Noble-prize thing is very politicised. Quite a few? Almost all the great Russian people were Ethnic Russians, all the names i gave are Ethnic Russians (And i just gave the chosen once). Ofcourse some great people from Russia were not Ethnic Russians (Jews played an importent role in Russia), but in every country there are many Jews who made great achievments in the name of that counry. In conclusion, Russians are one of the most importent and contrebuting nations in the world. M.V.E.i.
M.V.E.i- i don't understand why you think Lev Landau doesn't fit the russian category- because he was jewish?? Um, so then by that argument Trotsky isn't Russian either. True, Landau was born in Baku not Russia, but at that time it was part of the Russian empire. If Russian citizens who consider themselve part of the Russian people also happen to be Jewish, who are you to condescendingly dictate they are not? Ateapotist
We cant remove anyon from the current image because: 1. All of them are importent. 2. They were chosen by a long discussion and are a concensus. Nevertheless, i thing we should add another 4 people, which means, addinganother line . I've experimented it on my computer, and it looks just beautiful. The 4 people i propose are: Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Andrei Tarkovsky, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Dmitri Mendeleev.
There's another proposal to turn it into a 4 line image, which means adding another 4 to the previous four offered (i propose: Sergey Korolyov, Vladimir Zworykin, Alexander Pushkin, Constantin Stanislavski). This will look even better but i'm afraid many might say it's to much. Nevertheless, i experimented with this version to and it looks exelent (4 lines with 4 people on each line). Infact, it looks the best an image for an ethnic froup article could be.
If you agree to expand but have other ideas for the people needed here, please, No Peter I of Russia or Vladimir Lenin. All kings, leaders and all that has to do with politics should be left out.
Please state your opinion on the expansion idea, on how much to expand if expand, and what do you say about my people proposal.
REMEMBER, no changes should be done on the current image due to the fact that this selection was chosen as a consencus. Most of those i offered to add i offered because it seems they have place to be though they were not agreed by the consencus that agreed on the 8 that eventually were entered to the current image. M.V.E.i. 16:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, there is limited space on the image and we cannot infinitely extend it. It is not suppose to show all the world-famous Russians. M.V.E.i. did the last version of the image and he has some artistic license on who is on this image. If you will extend the image, I would consider Anna Pavlova (as a matter of fact as an Australian citizen I would even consider to put her instead of a "dead old white man" on the current image; how many other foreigners gave their name to national foods like Pavlova (food)), Alexander Alekhine, Feodor Chaliapin, Peter I (well I know he was a politician, but he lived 300 years ago), Pyotr Kapitsa, Dmitri Mendeleev, Nikolai Lobachevsky, Ilya Repin... The list really can unroll infinitely Alex Bakharev 00:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Apologies, but I don't quite understand why there should be so many pictures at all. The image is quite huge, and the old pictures were more than sufficient to represent the folk. Seriously, why put every famous Russian in here? Anyone who would fancy using famous Russian links may find them in the appropriate section, namely the one on their contributions to humanity. This image is basically an illustration to an anthropological article on the Russian ethnicity. I'd say it should present those Russians who are supposed to look Russian, not mere representatives of the Russian culture or famous Russians with highly exotic features. In addition to that, what's Pushkin doing there again? Hasn't that already been discussed?.. Oh, and speaking of the contribution section. Am I the only one who finds it weird that the part about WWII is larger than the part on all famous Russians altogether? It also contains highly subjective information, and the overly enthusiastic tone strikes me as unencyclopedic. The article projects the image of a folk with a huge array of complexes, with its representatives trying to make a point using Wikipedia. Well, the image is truthful, but at least we could try to act in a more discreet manner... Humanophage 01:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
What first comes into my head is:
Cmapm 14:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
OK guys, Cmapm suggested a proposal to replace Donskoy with Ivan the Third. It's really hard to decide beetwen them, so state your opinions on that. M.V.E.i. 15:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I am quite surprised that no-one has yet suggested Alla Pugacheva -- Russavia 23:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
We (the dutch), have been working on our own article of the Dutch people and we have been able to supply only ethnic Dutch people, with minimal admixture of foreign ethnic qualities to our collage; making it completely Dutch. When will you Russians start placing only ethnic Russians in your collage? I see that your greatest poet is a negro? He has no place in your collage. Neither do Germans or Jews. You don't see use placing the Dutch-German royalty or the Jewish Spinoza in our collage do you? 85.146.24.65 ( talk) 17:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
There are at least 300, 000 Russians in Israel, that I know of. Russian is one of the most common European languages used there. In Tel-Aviv many ATM and bank machines offer service in Russian along with English and Hebrew as third most spoken language. Why is this not mentioned in the info box? -- User:142.33.185.2. 02:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)- Sergei
There's actually about 1.5 million Russian-speakers in Israel, far more than 300,000. How many of them are ethnically Russian is debatable. 300,000 is the figure of non-Jews from the former Soviet Union. Funnily, many of those people would be Jewish by Wikipedia standards (Jewish father) but not by Halacha and Israeli law (ethnically Slavic, non-Jewish mother). Though either way, an ethnic Russian mother (or maternal grandmother in my case) is sufficient for the Ethnic Russian category in my opinion. But of course, plenty of these non-Jews could have Ukrainian or Belorussian mothers, but we just don't know for sure. CommanderJamesBond ( talk) 09:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't even care which numbers are correct, but it contradicts the article itself!
The section is fine. What's disputed? If Overy have said it or not? Or the fact that the first man in space was Gagarin? About literature. He said they are CONSIDERED, and gave links showing they are widely regarded as the best novelists ever. The section is written nutraly and gives referenced facts. Shpakovich ( talk) 23:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
The real number of ethnic Russians in Canada is logically somewhere between 500,600 and 98,245. 500, 600 is totaly unrealistic and can mislead readers who are unfamiliar with a differences between methods used in cenus data on "ancestry" in Canada and methods used to collect ethnic statistics in former Soviet states and most other nations. Using number of "multiple responses" from Canadian census is obviously leads to an overestimation. 500, 600 includes all Canadians who said that they have any ancestors who are either ethnically Russians as well as in many cases simply those who have any ancestors who originally came from the either Russia, Soviet Union or Russian Empire. Ethnic Russian diaspora in Canada even if we include Russian Jews, Russophone Ukrainians and people of mixed origin who consider themselves culturally Russian would number may be 200, 000 + but clearly not 500, 000 Fisenko ( talk) 21:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Your Votes:
Article states that there are 33,000 russians living in Finland. However, this is 2002 information and recently there has been in news that the number has risen to 45,000, including this (Finnish). This has been reported in various sources in Finnish media. More and more russians flood in our country and therefore this article needs to be updated to the latest information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuhlfürst ( talk • contribs) 19:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I have created a user account and noticed that someone keeps changing Russians as back to an ethnic group of only East Slavic origins. Why-is he denying that the Mongols had a large impact on Russia. There are many articles proving that Russians have Mongol genes and their culture was influenced by the Mongols. I recommend saying that Russians are of "Slavic and Mongol origin." Here are some links: http://www.sras.org/the_effects_of_the_mongol_empire_on_russia
I've just checked the above-mentioned link and was shocked at the very low(if there is any) scientific reliableness of the data provided.The author of this "evidence" is an american college graduate Dustin Hosseini who posesses the horreinously bad knowledge of Russian(being a bachelor of arts in Russian language and history(!!!) and despite this fact,tries to elaborate on the matter of the geneology of Russian people.Here is a fair example of his "profficiency":"Давай попьём! Davai popyom! ‘Come on, let’s get drunk!’".I 've taken this passage from the above-mentioned article where Dustin tries to draw a link between Mongol and Russian words in order to prove that the peoples have the same genes.(!!!)This poor lad doesn't know that "let's get drunk" is translated as "davai VIplem" not "davai popjem" as he holds it.
Mongols left relatively insignificant trace in Russians' geneology primaraly because they didn't colonize Russia and were only one-time passage-bys on their way to central adn south Europe.As we know,mongols conquered the lands of today's ukranians,poles,hingarians,horvats,passed through austrian lands,so if we follow the logic of Dustin-like "specialists" we might conclude that half of Europe are mongolized and turkisized(for example,turks beseged Vienna numerous times,possessed Greece and Armenia for centuries but no one calls greeks to have turkish genes).
Frank Russian ( talk) 07:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/11931_alcoholism.html -no, I don't think that Russians are alcoholics, but the article just shows that they have mongol genes, and pravda is a fairly respectable newspaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 22:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
To the author of the abovementioned commentary. Thank you for correcting my Russian. We all learn from our mistakes. (Dustin H.)
This article has no information about the Slivic tribes that eventually formed the Russian nation. The genetic study should be given here, and offcourse a few words about Russians having some Finno-Ugric blood. I except the Slavic tribes Krivich, Ilmen Slavs, Radimichs and Severians, and the Finno-Ugric Merya and Muromian, dont know any other tribes that fit here.
Someone told me Russians also have some Iranian nomand tribes in them, but i havent found information about it. Vistula Veneti, Saka ( Scythians) and a few more were mentioned but again, no links were given to me about it so i dont even know if it's true. In a book called Rebirth of Perun (Voskresheniye Peruna) by Klein it was said that the Slavic Mythology has many incommon things with the Iranian one and that might speak of some connections.
If someone can, please write about it.
P.S. No one think of entering the Mongols and Turks here. Since the genetic study showed that Russians dont have that blood, it is totally useless in entering them here. MaIl89 ( talk) 10:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Why don't you take the time to read these articles: http://www.sras.org/the_effects_of_the_mongol_empire_on_russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#Russian_gateways http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/11931_alcoholism.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, fine. First, I doubt that 100% of Russians have Slavic genes, but that's beside the point. Russians have been influenced by Mongols, yet there is nothing to indicate this based on the article about Russians as an ethnic group or the country of Russia. There are just some sentences basically saying the Mongols ruled Russia for about 200 years. There is a reason why 70% of Russians don't feel European and how the rest of Europe has gone on a different path from Russia, even countries that were once in the Warsaw Pact. http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/05/FACD8E14-56F3-4EAA-86C6-AFF94D5CCA10.html Again, there is nothing wrong with the Russian way, but it's just plain wrong to think of Russia as just another European country-it's not, even Ivanov, the defence minister, said so when talking about Belarus, a Russian ally, possibly joining the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=527&id=670100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 19:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you know where the ushanka comes from? http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-ushanka.htm How about the words Moscow, Kremlin, and Siberia? http://www.oneearthadventures.com/gobi/history/history.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 16:18, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you also find this link unreliable: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=kPwX2dW-V6sC&dq=mongol+impact+russia&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=s8WE5EXKA9&sig=MbOBVHCshaJnyY9FvFkCtNwxAoQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPT1,M1 It isn't by chance that Russia has been different from Europe. Russian leaders even say it's both a European and Asian country. http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=527&id=670100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that there are many Russians in Norway too. http://www.ssb.no/innvbef/. A big minority of the russians are from Chechnya. Another reason why ther are many russians in norway is because there have been a "trend" among some men to seek a Russian wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.166.88.105 ( talk) 09:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone, there are some problems with the infobox image at the moment, which you should be aware of, and may be able to help with. Basically, some of the images from which the collage is derived have licensing issues, which also affect the infobox image itself. I'll go through the problematic images one by one:
Can anyone help with these? In the meantime, I'll sort out a multi-image collage containing only images which are definitely free. Papa November ( talk) 23:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to user:Log in, log out for adding replacement images. I've cropped a couple to the correct aspect ratio so they appear correctly. The other two however had some more licensing issues: Image:Roza-Shanina profile.jpg and Image:Korolyow Barry Kent.JPG don't show that they are in the public domain in the US or Russia. Can anyone either provide licensing information, or a couple of alternative images? Papa November ( talk) 17:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, it's finished. We still don't know for sure about the Shanina image, but we can replace it later if it turns out to be copyrighted in the US. Papa November ( talk) 15:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Haha. Just what I was trying to say about Russians not being purely European. Even a fellow user has commented that they look Asiatic-because partly they are. It's not anything better or worse, that's just how Russian history has been and partly why it's the biggest country and spans two continents.
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Whta the hell is this? I tried Germans, I tried Poles, I tried Han Chinese and the French people, none of these have any "contributions to humanity". -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 16:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Try English people, who have a section under the same name, and Ashkenazi Jews, who have an achievments section. Log in, log out ( talk) 18:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
If the Russians' major "contribution to humanity" was being slaughtered en masse by the dynamic duo of Hitler & Stalin (who btw killed MORE pople than Hitler did, they say) in the war in which the Soviets ("Russians") started as Hitler's allies (whoops), then I rest my case. Anyway, why are the Russians the only state with a "contributions to humanity"? -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 18:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
"The invation to poland can be compared with the west giving Hittler a part of Czechoslovakia. " What language is this? Ruslish? (You keep writing about this "Hittler" person.) Yeah, the western armies invaded Czechoslovakia from the other side and killed thousands of people in the process. Then they killed tens of thousands of prisoners of war and civilians, too, and deported more than million to, um, Sahara or something (where a large part of them died). Sure. "The partition of Poland was at least to get the border mor far to make it harder on Hittler to reach Moscow." Yeah, previously Hitler would need to cross the whole Poland (which kept refusing his demands, leading to the war), and now he would need to cross only half (or actually, just cross the direct German-Soviet border). A clear improvement. (Also, you still didn't learn who helped to create Wehrmacht.) You are so deluded it's incredible. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 18:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
The word is that Russians "contributed to humanity" by "helping to defeat Hit(t)ler" and having enormous losses in the process. Which were also suffered from the Soviet hands, but I know now that Hitler's former best pal Stalin "was not Russian" (just Russified) but the other Soviets were. While, say, the (Han) Chinese have nothing about their equally disastrous was against Japan (which they fought alone for years). And with their losses also in great part inflicted on them by their own government. (Except China was NOT allied to Japan before Japan invaded them.) In short: not much of a contribution really in being horribly victimized by two equally evil totalitarian systems and presenting this as something glorious because one eventually won after being betrayed by the other. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 19:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Mabey it's better to rename the section, "Contribution to humanity" sounds a bit pompous... can't think of anything now... Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 19:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
"Sputnik 1, was launched by the Soviet Union and was developed mainly by the Russian Sergey Korolyov" Isn't Sergey half Ukrainian? Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 19:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Tell me more about this "Hittler" person. Also any_Soviets =/= Russians. Also any Soviets killed in the war =/= killed by the Axis (and this is what I talk about being victimized). Stop thinking the butcher Stalin's victory was a victory for the opressed Russian people (arguably the largest group of his victims of his genocidal policies by the sheer numbers along with the Ukrainians, even if not by the percentage of the population). Stop writing the most idiotic things like these you just wrote ("Stalins purges but not more then the MacCrthysm in the US"), unless I decide you're a hopeless case of a surviving Homo Sovieticus and end this discussion now. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 21:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC) If you want to learn something about Soviet Russia, you can start here. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 21:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
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Right, let's try again. To summarise, the whole point of the discussion above was that User:Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog objects to the presence of the "contribution to humanity" section and believes it should be removed. Please discuss this objectively below, stating your proposed solution and an explanation. Please do not "just vote". Also, this is not a forum for general discussion about the contribution of Russians to humanity. That is not the subject of debate - keep the discussion focused solely on whether this article is better with or without such a section. Papa November ( talk) 22:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Good morning everybody. As i said, i support keeping the section as it is, but i dont denie that a change is possible, but it will take hard work. In the Scythians article they have under "society" art, culture, we could add science. Assyrian people have it all as sub sections of culture. Log in, log out ( talk) 08:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
What PN said.
However, first find the number of the ethnic Russians (because now it's taking Soviet citiziens and making them "mostly Russians") who were slaughtered during WWII/under Soviet communism in general
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, which was and the same disaster(*). (*) Even military losses were in great part self-inflicted by the Soviet leadership, for example by the pre-war destruction of the officer corps through the purges (resulting in the incompetent leadership and thus huge casualties), by the ruthless stand-and-die and attack-by-all-cost orders (the same results, with these refusing the orders to die being executed), by the betrayal of the millions of POWs branded "traitors" together with their families and leaving them to die and even repressing these who survived (also millions die, with Stalin not helping even his own son who was captured), and so on (and much of civilian losses too - for example, no evacuation of Leningrad early in the war so huge numbers of people died during the siege, or the partisan activity resulting in the German repressions against civilians, not to mention the Soviet civilians killed by the Soviet forces directly). It' all in Wikipedia, btw. |
-- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 10:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
I wonder whether Russian "contributors to humanity" of last 90 years are omitted on purpose or by some mistake? No any single Nobel prize winner, no writers, only few composers. Probably not all the famous Soviet artists, authors and scientists were ethnically Russian, but still there are quite a few. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.236.19.141 ( talk) 00:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
Response: I gave there names of Scientists/Inventors who have made some of the most importent discoveries in Science, some of the most importent inventions. The Noble Prise is a very controversial thing. Tolstoy, the greatest novelist was nominated but didn't win, while hundreeds of writers who are week and forgotten, won it. Dostoyevski, Pushkin, and many others didnt have it, so what? Russian composers: Chikovski is one of the greatest (If not the greatest) composers ever. Many other composers (Rachmaninoff, Rimski-Korsakov, Shostakovich, Prokofiev) are among the best ever in the world. Dont forget that the Noble-prize thing is very politicised. Quite a few? Almost all the great Russian people were Ethnic Russians, all the names i gave are Ethnic Russians (And i just gave the chosen once). Ofcourse some great people from Russia were not Ethnic Russians (Jews played an importent role in Russia), but in every country there are many Jews who made great achievments in the name of that counry. In conclusion, Russians are one of the most importent and contrebuting nations in the world. M.V.E.i.
M.V.E.i- i don't understand why you think Lev Landau doesn't fit the russian category- because he was jewish?? Um, so then by that argument Trotsky isn't Russian either. True, Landau was born in Baku not Russia, but at that time it was part of the Russian empire. If Russian citizens who consider themselve part of the Russian people also happen to be Jewish, who are you to condescendingly dictate they are not? Ateapotist
We cant remove anyon from the current image because: 1. All of them are importent. 2. They were chosen by a long discussion and are a concensus. Nevertheless, i thing we should add another 4 people, which means, addinganother line . I've experimented it on my computer, and it looks just beautiful. The 4 people i propose are: Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Andrei Tarkovsky, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Dmitri Mendeleev.
There's another proposal to turn it into a 4 line image, which means adding another 4 to the previous four offered (i propose: Sergey Korolyov, Vladimir Zworykin, Alexander Pushkin, Constantin Stanislavski). This will look even better but i'm afraid many might say it's to much. Nevertheless, i experimented with this version to and it looks exelent (4 lines with 4 people on each line). Infact, it looks the best an image for an ethnic froup article could be.
If you agree to expand but have other ideas for the people needed here, please, No Peter I of Russia or Vladimir Lenin. All kings, leaders and all that has to do with politics should be left out.
Please state your opinion on the expansion idea, on how much to expand if expand, and what do you say about my people proposal.
REMEMBER, no changes should be done on the current image due to the fact that this selection was chosen as a consencus. Most of those i offered to add i offered because it seems they have place to be though they were not agreed by the consencus that agreed on the 8 that eventually were entered to the current image. M.V.E.i. 16:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, there is limited space on the image and we cannot infinitely extend it. It is not suppose to show all the world-famous Russians. M.V.E.i. did the last version of the image and he has some artistic license on who is on this image. If you will extend the image, I would consider Anna Pavlova (as a matter of fact as an Australian citizen I would even consider to put her instead of a "dead old white man" on the current image; how many other foreigners gave their name to national foods like Pavlova (food)), Alexander Alekhine, Feodor Chaliapin, Peter I (well I know he was a politician, but he lived 300 years ago), Pyotr Kapitsa, Dmitri Mendeleev, Nikolai Lobachevsky, Ilya Repin... The list really can unroll infinitely Alex Bakharev 00:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Apologies, but I don't quite understand why there should be so many pictures at all. The image is quite huge, and the old pictures were more than sufficient to represent the folk. Seriously, why put every famous Russian in here? Anyone who would fancy using famous Russian links may find them in the appropriate section, namely the one on their contributions to humanity. This image is basically an illustration to an anthropological article on the Russian ethnicity. I'd say it should present those Russians who are supposed to look Russian, not mere representatives of the Russian culture or famous Russians with highly exotic features. In addition to that, what's Pushkin doing there again? Hasn't that already been discussed?.. Oh, and speaking of the contribution section. Am I the only one who finds it weird that the part about WWII is larger than the part on all famous Russians altogether? It also contains highly subjective information, and the overly enthusiastic tone strikes me as unencyclopedic. The article projects the image of a folk with a huge array of complexes, with its representatives trying to make a point using Wikipedia. Well, the image is truthful, but at least we could try to act in a more discreet manner... Humanophage 01:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
What first comes into my head is:
Cmapm 14:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
OK guys, Cmapm suggested a proposal to replace Donskoy with Ivan the Third. It's really hard to decide beetwen them, so state your opinions on that. M.V.E.i. 15:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I am quite surprised that no-one has yet suggested Alla Pugacheva -- Russavia 23:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
We (the dutch), have been working on our own article of the Dutch people and we have been able to supply only ethnic Dutch people, with minimal admixture of foreign ethnic qualities to our collage; making it completely Dutch. When will you Russians start placing only ethnic Russians in your collage? I see that your greatest poet is a negro? He has no place in your collage. Neither do Germans or Jews. You don't see use placing the Dutch-German royalty or the Jewish Spinoza in our collage do you? 85.146.24.65 ( talk) 17:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
There are at least 300, 000 Russians in Israel, that I know of. Russian is one of the most common European languages used there. In Tel-Aviv many ATM and bank machines offer service in Russian along with English and Hebrew as third most spoken language. Why is this not mentioned in the info box? -- User:142.33.185.2. 02:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)- Sergei
There's actually about 1.5 million Russian-speakers in Israel, far more than 300,000. How many of them are ethnically Russian is debatable. 300,000 is the figure of non-Jews from the former Soviet Union. Funnily, many of those people would be Jewish by Wikipedia standards (Jewish father) but not by Halacha and Israeli law (ethnically Slavic, non-Jewish mother). Though either way, an ethnic Russian mother (or maternal grandmother in my case) is sufficient for the Ethnic Russian category in my opinion. But of course, plenty of these non-Jews could have Ukrainian or Belorussian mothers, but we just don't know for sure. CommanderJamesBond ( talk) 09:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't even care which numbers are correct, but it contradicts the article itself!
The section is fine. What's disputed? If Overy have said it or not? Or the fact that the first man in space was Gagarin? About literature. He said they are CONSIDERED, and gave links showing they are widely regarded as the best novelists ever. The section is written nutraly and gives referenced facts. Shpakovich ( talk) 23:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
The real number of ethnic Russians in Canada is logically somewhere between 500,600 and 98,245. 500, 600 is totaly unrealistic and can mislead readers who are unfamiliar with a differences between methods used in cenus data on "ancestry" in Canada and methods used to collect ethnic statistics in former Soviet states and most other nations. Using number of "multiple responses" from Canadian census is obviously leads to an overestimation. 500, 600 includes all Canadians who said that they have any ancestors who are either ethnically Russians as well as in many cases simply those who have any ancestors who originally came from the either Russia, Soviet Union or Russian Empire. Ethnic Russian diaspora in Canada even if we include Russian Jews, Russophone Ukrainians and people of mixed origin who consider themselves culturally Russian would number may be 200, 000 + but clearly not 500, 000 Fisenko ( talk) 21:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Your Votes:
Article states that there are 33,000 russians living in Finland. However, this is 2002 information and recently there has been in news that the number has risen to 45,000, including this (Finnish). This has been reported in various sources in Finnish media. More and more russians flood in our country and therefore this article needs to be updated to the latest information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuhlfürst ( talk • contribs) 19:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I have created a user account and noticed that someone keeps changing Russians as back to an ethnic group of only East Slavic origins. Why-is he denying that the Mongols had a large impact on Russia. There are many articles proving that Russians have Mongol genes and their culture was influenced by the Mongols. I recommend saying that Russians are of "Slavic and Mongol origin." Here are some links: http://www.sras.org/the_effects_of_the_mongol_empire_on_russia
I've just checked the above-mentioned link and was shocked at the very low(if there is any) scientific reliableness of the data provided.The author of this "evidence" is an american college graduate Dustin Hosseini who posesses the horreinously bad knowledge of Russian(being a bachelor of arts in Russian language and history(!!!) and despite this fact,tries to elaborate on the matter of the geneology of Russian people.Here is a fair example of his "profficiency":"Давай попьём! Davai popyom! ‘Come on, let’s get drunk!’".I 've taken this passage from the above-mentioned article where Dustin tries to draw a link between Mongol and Russian words in order to prove that the peoples have the same genes.(!!!)This poor lad doesn't know that "let's get drunk" is translated as "davai VIplem" not "davai popjem" as he holds it.
Mongols left relatively insignificant trace in Russians' geneology primaraly because they didn't colonize Russia and were only one-time passage-bys on their way to central adn south Europe.As we know,mongols conquered the lands of today's ukranians,poles,hingarians,horvats,passed through austrian lands,so if we follow the logic of Dustin-like "specialists" we might conclude that half of Europe are mongolized and turkisized(for example,turks beseged Vienna numerous times,possessed Greece and Armenia for centuries but no one calls greeks to have turkish genes).
Frank Russian ( talk) 07:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/11931_alcoholism.html -no, I don't think that Russians are alcoholics, but the article just shows that they have mongol genes, and pravda is a fairly respectable newspaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 22:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
To the author of the abovementioned commentary. Thank you for correcting my Russian. We all learn from our mistakes. (Dustin H.)
This article has no information about the Slivic tribes that eventually formed the Russian nation. The genetic study should be given here, and offcourse a few words about Russians having some Finno-Ugric blood. I except the Slavic tribes Krivich, Ilmen Slavs, Radimichs and Severians, and the Finno-Ugric Merya and Muromian, dont know any other tribes that fit here.
Someone told me Russians also have some Iranian nomand tribes in them, but i havent found information about it. Vistula Veneti, Saka ( Scythians) and a few more were mentioned but again, no links were given to me about it so i dont even know if it's true. In a book called Rebirth of Perun (Voskresheniye Peruna) by Klein it was said that the Slavic Mythology has many incommon things with the Iranian one and that might speak of some connections.
If someone can, please write about it.
P.S. No one think of entering the Mongols and Turks here. Since the genetic study showed that Russians dont have that blood, it is totally useless in entering them here. MaIl89 ( talk) 10:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Why don't you take the time to read these articles: http://www.sras.org/the_effects_of_the_mongol_empire_on_russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#Russian_gateways http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/11931_alcoholism.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, fine. First, I doubt that 100% of Russians have Slavic genes, but that's beside the point. Russians have been influenced by Mongols, yet there is nothing to indicate this based on the article about Russians as an ethnic group or the country of Russia. There are just some sentences basically saying the Mongols ruled Russia for about 200 years. There is a reason why 70% of Russians don't feel European and how the rest of Europe has gone on a different path from Russia, even countries that were once in the Warsaw Pact. http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/05/FACD8E14-56F3-4EAA-86C6-AFF94D5CCA10.html Again, there is nothing wrong with the Russian way, but it's just plain wrong to think of Russia as just another European country-it's not, even Ivanov, the defence minister, said so when talking about Belarus, a Russian ally, possibly joining the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=527&id=670100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 19:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you know where the ushanka comes from? http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-ushanka.htm How about the words Moscow, Kremlin, and Siberia? http://www.oneearthadventures.com/gobi/history/history.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 16:18, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you also find this link unreliable: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=kPwX2dW-V6sC&dq=mongol+impact+russia&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=s8WE5EXKA9&sig=MbOBVHCshaJnyY9FvFkCtNwxAoQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPT1,M1 It isn't by chance that Russia has been different from Europe. Russian leaders even say it's both a European and Asian country. http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=527&id=670100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdn12 ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that there are many Russians in Norway too. http://www.ssb.no/innvbef/. A big minority of the russians are from Chechnya. Another reason why ther are many russians in norway is because there have been a "trend" among some men to seek a Russian wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.166.88.105 ( talk) 09:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone, there are some problems with the infobox image at the moment, which you should be aware of, and may be able to help with. Basically, some of the images from which the collage is derived have licensing issues, which also affect the infobox image itself. I'll go through the problematic images one by one:
Can anyone help with these? In the meantime, I'll sort out a multi-image collage containing only images which are definitely free. Papa November ( talk) 23:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to user:Log in, log out for adding replacement images. I've cropped a couple to the correct aspect ratio so they appear correctly. The other two however had some more licensing issues: Image:Roza-Shanina profile.jpg and Image:Korolyow Barry Kent.JPG don't show that they are in the public domain in the US or Russia. Can anyone either provide licensing information, or a couple of alternative images? Papa November ( talk) 17:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, it's finished. We still don't know for sure about the Shanina image, but we can replace it later if it turns out to be copyrighted in the US. Papa November ( talk) 15:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Haha. Just what I was trying to say about Russians not being purely European. Even a fellow user has commented that they look Asiatic-because partly they are. It's not anything better or worse, that's just how Russian history has been and partly why it's the biggest country and spans two continents.
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Whta the hell is this? I tried Germans, I tried Poles, I tried Han Chinese and the French people, none of these have any "contributions to humanity". -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 16:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Try English people, who have a section under the same name, and Ashkenazi Jews, who have an achievments section. Log in, log out ( talk) 18:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
If the Russians' major "contribution to humanity" was being slaughtered en masse by the dynamic duo of Hitler & Stalin (who btw killed MORE pople than Hitler did, they say) in the war in which the Soviets ("Russians") started as Hitler's allies (whoops), then I rest my case. Anyway, why are the Russians the only state with a "contributions to humanity"? -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 18:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
"The invation to poland can be compared with the west giving Hittler a part of Czechoslovakia. " What language is this? Ruslish? (You keep writing about this "Hittler" person.) Yeah, the western armies invaded Czechoslovakia from the other side and killed thousands of people in the process. Then they killed tens of thousands of prisoners of war and civilians, too, and deported more than million to, um, Sahara or something (where a large part of them died). Sure. "The partition of Poland was at least to get the border mor far to make it harder on Hittler to reach Moscow." Yeah, previously Hitler would need to cross the whole Poland (which kept refusing his demands, leading to the war), and now he would need to cross only half (or actually, just cross the direct German-Soviet border). A clear improvement. (Also, you still didn't learn who helped to create Wehrmacht.) You are so deluded it's incredible. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 18:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
The word is that Russians "contributed to humanity" by "helping to defeat Hit(t)ler" and having enormous losses in the process. Which were also suffered from the Soviet hands, but I know now that Hitler's former best pal Stalin "was not Russian" (just Russified) but the other Soviets were. While, say, the (Han) Chinese have nothing about their equally disastrous was against Japan (which they fought alone for years). And with their losses also in great part inflicted on them by their own government. (Except China was NOT allied to Japan before Japan invaded them.) In short: not much of a contribution really in being horribly victimized by two equally evil totalitarian systems and presenting this as something glorious because one eventually won after being betrayed by the other. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 19:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Mabey it's better to rename the section, "Contribution to humanity" sounds a bit pompous... can't think of anything now... Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 19:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
"Sputnik 1, was launched by the Soviet Union and was developed mainly by the Russian Sergey Korolyov" Isn't Sergey half Ukrainian? Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 19:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Tell me more about this "Hittler" person. Also any_Soviets =/= Russians. Also any Soviets killed in the war =/= killed by the Axis (and this is what I talk about being victimized). Stop thinking the butcher Stalin's victory was a victory for the opressed Russian people (arguably the largest group of his victims of his genocidal policies by the sheer numbers along with the Ukrainians, even if not by the percentage of the population). Stop writing the most idiotic things like these you just wrote ("Stalins purges but not more then the MacCrthysm in the US"), unless I decide you're a hopeless case of a surviving Homo Sovieticus and end this discussion now. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 21:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC) If you want to learn something about Soviet Russia, you can start here. -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 21:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
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Right, let's try again. To summarise, the whole point of the discussion above was that User:Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog objects to the presence of the "contribution to humanity" section and believes it should be removed. Please discuss this objectively below, stating your proposed solution and an explanation. Please do not "just vote". Also, this is not a forum for general discussion about the contribution of Russians to humanity. That is not the subject of debate - keep the discussion focused solely on whether this article is better with or without such a section. Papa November ( talk) 22:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Good morning everybody. As i said, i support keeping the section as it is, but i dont denie that a change is possible, but it will take hard work. In the Scythians article they have under "society" art, culture, we could add science. Assyrian people have it all as sub sections of culture. Log in, log out ( talk) 08:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
What PN said.
However, first find the number of the ethnic Russians (because now it's taking Soviet citiziens and making them "mostly Russians") who were slaughtered during WWII/under Soviet communism in general
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, which was and the same disaster(*). (*) Even military losses were in great part self-inflicted by the Soviet leadership, for example by the pre-war destruction of the officer corps through the purges (resulting in the incompetent leadership and thus huge casualties), by the ruthless stand-and-die and attack-by-all-cost orders (the same results, with these refusing the orders to die being executed), by the betrayal of the millions of POWs branded "traitors" together with their families and leaving them to die and even repressing these who survived (also millions die, with Stalin not helping even his own son who was captured), and so on (and much of civilian losses too - for example, no evacuation of Leningrad early in the war so huge numbers of people died during the siege, or the partisan activity resulting in the German repressions against civilians, not to mention the Soviet civilians killed by the Soviet forces directly). It' all in Wikipedia, btw. |
-- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 10:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)