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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 12 April 2021. Further details are available
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
It might be more appropiate to rename this article Anarchism and LGBT rights as the usage of the word "queer" in a positive sense from LGBT rights activists only emerged at the end of the 20th century while advocacy of LGBT rights within anarchism goes back to the 19th century. The phrase Queer anarchism could be better referenced showing specific usages. Also saying queer anarchism is an anarchist school of thought might be a bit premature but anyway i will love to hear other´s opinions on this.-- Eduen ( talk) 05:49, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The article does not show the existence of any "Anarcho-queer" movement but happily recruits a number of deceased gays into it, sometimes (Bakunin) by innuendo only. This article is therefore substandard by any encyclopedic norm. Pure, unadulterated drivel, filled to the brim with weaselwords, namedropping and innuendo. Kleuske ( talk) 11:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
The existence of such a movement should be shown, goals listed, and manifesto's, pamphlets and other sources cited prior to recruiting deceased persons on questionable grounds into a "movement" i still consider mythical, a bad excuse to lump "Gay" and "Anarchist" together in order to scare the shit out of gullible fundies. I've perused the sources you mention, and they have only convinced me the persons in question were (perhaps) gay, not that a movement like the one suggested by the article actually exists or ever existed. Even if someone is homosexual, has anarchist views (which wasn't all that uncommon at the end of the 19th century) and published on human sexuality it _still_ does not justify incorporating him into some mythical anarcho-queer movement. He/she is simply an anarchist author who happens to be gay. Where's the Anarcho-Straight movement? The Anarcho-Married-with-Children movement? The Anarcho-cheeselovers movement? I'm sure Bakunin liked cheese. Kleuske ( talk) 12:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
At most i'm slightly miffed for finding this kind of article in Wikipedia, but that is not the problem. I have pointed out at least a few serious problems with the article, let me sum them up for clarity (and without smartalec remarks)
Kleuske ( talk) 06:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
It seems that i did give the original authors of this article some similar criticisms as those you seem to give up to a certain point. This can be seen in the previous section to this one on this Discussion part of this article which i called "Suggestions on improvements". I suggested them that they change this article to "Anarchism and LGBT rights" and afterwards "Anarchism and LGBT issues" because i did have reservations about this being a "school of thought". This article i think could do well in talking about the relationship between anarchism and LGBT activism and issues and so it gives enough good information on that.
As far as provinding sources pointing out to the LGBT activism of anarchists such as Oscar Wilde, John Henry Mackay, Adolf Brand and Daniel Guerin that is already given later on in the article and so the person who put [citation needed] tags might have not been careful enough to notice this. I think that could be improved though but i dont think it will be too hard as can already be seen now
In the case of John Henry Mackay and Adolf Brand a line of thought for a Queer anarchism is already present since they adhere to Max Stirner´s positions on self-ownership and ilegitimacy of the state (see: philosophical anarchism) so as to disregard or rebel against state prohibitions on personal sexual preferences and activities.
And so i will try to improve this weakneses and i suggest again changing the name of this article to "Anarchism and LGBT issues" and erasing the part that says this is "school of thought". In this way this article will not be different to similar ones related to anarchism such as " anarchism and religion" and " Anarchism and Marxism".-- Eduen ( talk) 07:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
As a proposal for a new introduction which i think solves the problems with this article i suggest the following new introduction which includes the change of name of this article:
"Anarchism and LGBT issues (new title of the article
Anarchism has had a relationship with LGBT liberation struggles since the late 19th century. LGBT Anarchists who campaigned for LGBT rights both outside and inside the anarchist and LGBT movements include Oscar Wilde, John Henry Mackay [1], Adolf Brand and Daniel Guerin [2]. Individualist anarchist Adolf Brand published Der Eigene which was the first publication dedicated to gay issues in the world, published from 1896 to 1932 in Berlin. [3] [4]."
So there goes my proposal. Anyway if someone can bring up articles and collective platforms which present an "anarcho-queer" perspective we could add again a mention of that term but i think it is better to change the name of the article as i suggested. Eduen ( talk) 09:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
So then we might proceed with the change. Nevertheless as said before, a mention to "Queer anarchism" within this article could be incorporated as for example this academic talk given by influential queer theorist Judith Butler with the name " "Queer Anarchism and Anarchists Against the Wall" shows the term could start to be taken more seriously.-- Eduen ( talk) 04:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Since I have been involved in improving other articles in this encyclopedia I have lost contact with this article. I propose now to discuss again the issues raised by user User:Kleuske with which as can be seen here, I tended to agree as far as naming this article "Queer anarchism" is not supported by good sources. As can be seen in the previous dialogue, we reached an agreement that it might be better to rename this article "Anarchism and LGBT issues" which doesn´t mean not talking about "queer anarchism" within the article but of course with good sources for support. So I hope we can take into account more opinions but personally I continue to support the change. If we can´t count with more opinions in the following days I think we could very well then proceed with the change.-- Eduen ( talk) 01:22, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
As the article stands now, I think it can´t be called "anarchism and queer theory" since it tends to focus on anarchist activists and their activities for LGBTI rights and not really on "theory" per se. As far as "Anarchism and Queer issues" we could consider it as a second option but as I read the wikipedia article on " Queer" it seems there is a controversy around the use of the term queer and so I could not recommend it as a better option over LGBTI. I am not an expert on this particular issue so I am open for more discussion on this.-- Eduen ( talk) 05:42, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
I don´t think the article can be called Anarchism and (issues of) sexuality and gender since there is already an article on wikipedia called " Anarchism and issues related to love and sex" which focuses on subjects such as free love, birth control, pornography, polyamory, women´s issues and anarcha-feminism, BDSM, etc for both LBGTI and heterosexual people. This article intends a focus on LGBTI/Queer issues only.
So we have two options Anarchism and LGBTI issues and Anarchism and queer issues. I think we can already have a consensus on these two options and so if people type on search either of these two titles they will be redirected to this article.-- Eduen ( talk) 19:32, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
References
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If you want to try again, please request a move by following the guidelines at WP:RM#CM. As a side note, the count of scholarly references for "queer anarchism" is one hundred times greater than for the alternative. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 06:41, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
I propose that this article be split into two separate articles, one for Queer anarchism and one for LGBT anarchism. Queer anarchism is a specific LGBT anarchist ideology. Not all LGBT anarchists identify with the queer-anarchist ideology and many LGBT anarchists lived before the terminology of queer was reclaimed. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 02:51, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Sangdeboeuf Please discuss here. I am restoring the page, you want to radically change the article and an editor has stated they oppose it. So if you want to change the article bring it here. Vallee01 ( talk) 00:12, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
This is another article where the scope is rather unclear. The "Early history" is currently just a loose collection of summaries about people with varying connections to both anarchism and LGBT rights, reading as a series of paragraphs saying "X was an anarchist and a gay man", etc. How these people happening to be anarchists and also happening to be LGBT fits into the specific subject of "queer anarchism" is completely unclear. It seems to me like this entire section consists of a novel synthesis of material.
Per a search on Google Ngrams, the terms "queer anarchist" and "queer anarchism" only really gained a notable usage during the 21st century, after queer theory had already taken shape. This brings me to question how much most of the "Early history" section is actually verifiably connected to the subject and warrants some serious cuts.
I've managed to construct a bibliography of reliable sources that do verifiably use the terms "queer anarchism" and "anarchaqueer". But currently none of them are cited in the article and, on a cursory glance at them, I'm not sure if they actually support the inclusion of most of the people mentioned in the "Early history" section.
Per the queries raised by @ Kleuske in an earlier talk page discussion, it seems like this has been an issue for a while and not much (if anything) has been done to rectify it. I'll probably be going ahead with some bold content removals, unless anyone objects. -- Grnrchst ( talk) 20:05, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Grnrchst: asked above about scope. This article is currently missing coverage of Harry Hay, who I think is a major figure in queer anarchism.
Harry Hay founded Mattachine Society, which was for gay guys in suits, and Radical Faeries, for gay guys being freaks. The Wikipedia article about Harry Hay is biased and unfair against in him in my opinion, as it criticizes him in ways that I think the cited sources do not. I would like to clean it up, and also I think the bias in that Wikipedia is disrupting the flow of teaching queer anarchism.
Here are some sources about either Harry Hay or rad fae, and anarchism
There is more if people look. This is kind of a generational thing unfortunately. There are still radical faerie publications and history but it is an aging demographic in the United States, and I am not sure how it works outside the United States. Radical faeries where influential to me in the 2000s. An active quarterly publication from this group is RFD (magazine). Bluerasberry (talk) 20:34, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 12 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Idontknowhowtowiki.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
It might be more appropiate to rename this article Anarchism and LGBT rights as the usage of the word "queer" in a positive sense from LGBT rights activists only emerged at the end of the 20th century while advocacy of LGBT rights within anarchism goes back to the 19th century. The phrase Queer anarchism could be better referenced showing specific usages. Also saying queer anarchism is an anarchist school of thought might be a bit premature but anyway i will love to hear other´s opinions on this.-- Eduen ( talk) 05:49, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The article does not show the existence of any "Anarcho-queer" movement but happily recruits a number of deceased gays into it, sometimes (Bakunin) by innuendo only. This article is therefore substandard by any encyclopedic norm. Pure, unadulterated drivel, filled to the brim with weaselwords, namedropping and innuendo. Kleuske ( talk) 11:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
The existence of such a movement should be shown, goals listed, and manifesto's, pamphlets and other sources cited prior to recruiting deceased persons on questionable grounds into a "movement" i still consider mythical, a bad excuse to lump "Gay" and "Anarchist" together in order to scare the shit out of gullible fundies. I've perused the sources you mention, and they have only convinced me the persons in question were (perhaps) gay, not that a movement like the one suggested by the article actually exists or ever existed. Even if someone is homosexual, has anarchist views (which wasn't all that uncommon at the end of the 19th century) and published on human sexuality it _still_ does not justify incorporating him into some mythical anarcho-queer movement. He/she is simply an anarchist author who happens to be gay. Where's the Anarcho-Straight movement? The Anarcho-Married-with-Children movement? The Anarcho-cheeselovers movement? I'm sure Bakunin liked cheese. Kleuske ( talk) 12:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
At most i'm slightly miffed for finding this kind of article in Wikipedia, but that is not the problem. I have pointed out at least a few serious problems with the article, let me sum them up for clarity (and without smartalec remarks)
Kleuske ( talk) 06:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
It seems that i did give the original authors of this article some similar criticisms as those you seem to give up to a certain point. This can be seen in the previous section to this one on this Discussion part of this article which i called "Suggestions on improvements". I suggested them that they change this article to "Anarchism and LGBT rights" and afterwards "Anarchism and LGBT issues" because i did have reservations about this being a "school of thought". This article i think could do well in talking about the relationship between anarchism and LGBT activism and issues and so it gives enough good information on that.
As far as provinding sources pointing out to the LGBT activism of anarchists such as Oscar Wilde, John Henry Mackay, Adolf Brand and Daniel Guerin that is already given later on in the article and so the person who put [citation needed] tags might have not been careful enough to notice this. I think that could be improved though but i dont think it will be too hard as can already be seen now
In the case of John Henry Mackay and Adolf Brand a line of thought for a Queer anarchism is already present since they adhere to Max Stirner´s positions on self-ownership and ilegitimacy of the state (see: philosophical anarchism) so as to disregard or rebel against state prohibitions on personal sexual preferences and activities.
And so i will try to improve this weakneses and i suggest again changing the name of this article to "Anarchism and LGBT issues" and erasing the part that says this is "school of thought". In this way this article will not be different to similar ones related to anarchism such as " anarchism and religion" and " Anarchism and Marxism".-- Eduen ( talk) 07:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
As a proposal for a new introduction which i think solves the problems with this article i suggest the following new introduction which includes the change of name of this article:
"Anarchism and LGBT issues (new title of the article
Anarchism has had a relationship with LGBT liberation struggles since the late 19th century. LGBT Anarchists who campaigned for LGBT rights both outside and inside the anarchist and LGBT movements include Oscar Wilde, John Henry Mackay [1], Adolf Brand and Daniel Guerin [2]. Individualist anarchist Adolf Brand published Der Eigene which was the first publication dedicated to gay issues in the world, published from 1896 to 1932 in Berlin. [3] [4]."
So there goes my proposal. Anyway if someone can bring up articles and collective platforms which present an "anarcho-queer" perspective we could add again a mention of that term but i think it is better to change the name of the article as i suggested. Eduen ( talk) 09:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
So then we might proceed with the change. Nevertheless as said before, a mention to "Queer anarchism" within this article could be incorporated as for example this academic talk given by influential queer theorist Judith Butler with the name " "Queer Anarchism and Anarchists Against the Wall" shows the term could start to be taken more seriously.-- Eduen ( talk) 04:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Since I have been involved in improving other articles in this encyclopedia I have lost contact with this article. I propose now to discuss again the issues raised by user User:Kleuske with which as can be seen here, I tended to agree as far as naming this article "Queer anarchism" is not supported by good sources. As can be seen in the previous dialogue, we reached an agreement that it might be better to rename this article "Anarchism and LGBT issues" which doesn´t mean not talking about "queer anarchism" within the article but of course with good sources for support. So I hope we can take into account more opinions but personally I continue to support the change. If we can´t count with more opinions in the following days I think we could very well then proceed with the change.-- Eduen ( talk) 01:22, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
As the article stands now, I think it can´t be called "anarchism and queer theory" since it tends to focus on anarchist activists and their activities for LGBTI rights and not really on "theory" per se. As far as "Anarchism and Queer issues" we could consider it as a second option but as I read the wikipedia article on " Queer" it seems there is a controversy around the use of the term queer and so I could not recommend it as a better option over LGBTI. I am not an expert on this particular issue so I am open for more discussion on this.-- Eduen ( talk) 05:42, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
I don´t think the article can be called Anarchism and (issues of) sexuality and gender since there is already an article on wikipedia called " Anarchism and issues related to love and sex" which focuses on subjects such as free love, birth control, pornography, polyamory, women´s issues and anarcha-feminism, BDSM, etc for both LBGTI and heterosexual people. This article intends a focus on LGBTI/Queer issues only.
So we have two options Anarchism and LGBTI issues and Anarchism and queer issues. I think we can already have a consensus on these two options and so if people type on search either of these two titles they will be redirected to this article.-- Eduen ( talk) 19:32, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
References
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Queer anarchism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://zinelibrary.info/search/node/Pink+and+Black+AttackWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:49, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
If you want to try again, please request a move by following the guidelines at WP:RM#CM. As a side note, the count of scholarly references for "queer anarchism" is one hundred times greater than for the alternative. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 06:41, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
I propose that this article be split into two separate articles, one for Queer anarchism and one for LGBT anarchism. Queer anarchism is a specific LGBT anarchist ideology. Not all LGBT anarchists identify with the queer-anarchist ideology and many LGBT anarchists lived before the terminology of queer was reclaimed. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 02:51, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Sangdeboeuf Please discuss here. I am restoring the page, you want to radically change the article and an editor has stated they oppose it. So if you want to change the article bring it here. Vallee01 ( talk) 00:12, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
This is another article where the scope is rather unclear. The "Early history" is currently just a loose collection of summaries about people with varying connections to both anarchism and LGBT rights, reading as a series of paragraphs saying "X was an anarchist and a gay man", etc. How these people happening to be anarchists and also happening to be LGBT fits into the specific subject of "queer anarchism" is completely unclear. It seems to me like this entire section consists of a novel synthesis of material.
Per a search on Google Ngrams, the terms "queer anarchist" and "queer anarchism" only really gained a notable usage during the 21st century, after queer theory had already taken shape. This brings me to question how much most of the "Early history" section is actually verifiably connected to the subject and warrants some serious cuts.
I've managed to construct a bibliography of reliable sources that do verifiably use the terms "queer anarchism" and "anarchaqueer". But currently none of them are cited in the article and, on a cursory glance at them, I'm not sure if they actually support the inclusion of most of the people mentioned in the "Early history" section.
Per the queries raised by @ Kleuske in an earlier talk page discussion, it seems like this has been an issue for a while and not much (if anything) has been done to rectify it. I'll probably be going ahead with some bold content removals, unless anyone objects. -- Grnrchst ( talk) 20:05, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Grnrchst: asked above about scope. This article is currently missing coverage of Harry Hay, who I think is a major figure in queer anarchism.
Harry Hay founded Mattachine Society, which was for gay guys in suits, and Radical Faeries, for gay guys being freaks. The Wikipedia article about Harry Hay is biased and unfair against in him in my opinion, as it criticizes him in ways that I think the cited sources do not. I would like to clean it up, and also I think the bias in that Wikipedia is disrupting the flow of teaching queer anarchism.
Here are some sources about either Harry Hay or rad fae, and anarchism
There is more if people look. This is kind of a generational thing unfortunately. There are still radical faerie publications and history but it is an aging demographic in the United States, and I am not sure how it works outside the United States. Radical faeries where influential to me in the 2000s. An active quarterly publication from this group is RFD (magazine). Bluerasberry (talk) 20:34, 5 February 2023 (UTC)