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As usual Wikipedia is being used for creating a confusion in well documented histories in order to push certain goals. Mahmud was not a Persian but of Turkish origin. The Turks originally lived in Turkmenistan and parts of Afghanistan. When Mahmud defeated the Hindu Shahi dynasty some Shahi princes fled to Kashmir. Kashmir had supported the Hindu Shahis and also marriages took place between the royalty of both places. An angry Mahmud next attacked Kashmir twice and was soundly defeated both times by the Hindu Kashmiris. Reference of this in Rajatarangini and Kitab ta'rikh al-Hind, by Al-Biruni. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.203 ( talk) 00:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Modern researches on Somnath attack present some interesting facts. Eminent historian Romila Thapar published a book named “Somanatha: The Many Voices of a History”. It has been found that
1. There is no Hindu text available on this incident. Hence, the entire narrative of this attack is solely based on Muslim authors. (Page-16) 2. There are even internal contradictions in the Turko-Persian narratives.(Page-14, Last paragraph)
I never said it did not take place. It certainly happened. See Page No-16 and Page No-14(last paragraph). I just said:
1. There is no Hindu text available on this incident. Hence, the entire narrative of this attack is solely based on Muslim authors. (Page-16) 2. There are even internal contradictions in the Turko-Persian narratives.(Page-14, Last paragraph)
Both the statements are needed to present a correct and neutral version of history. You can change the style if needed. Ghatus ( talk) 12:44, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Ghatus was on the right track here. I don't know why everybody pounced upon him. The Somnath section is really poor with outdated sources and an extended quote from a 13th century fantasy legend. It should be rewritten based on Thapar. The entire point of her book is to demonstrate how unreliable these medieval Muslim legends are, even though they were taken to be "history" during the Raj era. - Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:32, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
These are some questions asked by a prominent historian in the 21st based on serious researches. However, I never say that it (some sort of attack on Somnath though the magnitude is unknown) did not take place. At the same time, being a student of History, I seriously doubt if most of the editors here have the needed intellectual understanding of History. One can not be a master of history by just doing some google searches. The whole article is based on stone age historiography/narration with a blatant communal point of view and Kansas Bear is guarding this . To put it in brief, the article here is rubbish. :-) Ghatus ( talk) 05:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Kautilya3:, @ Kansas Bear:
My Statement:"Why is there no "non-Muslim" "historical" sources on Somnath Attack if it had been a such a disastrous incident?"
Meaning: We depend on Muslim sources for the attack on Somnath.
Quote:"But, as is well known, Hindu sources do not give any information regarding the raids of Sultan Mahmud, so that what follows is based solely on the testimony of Muslim authers." [3]
Reference to Jains: I wrote-"There are five narratives of a same incident-"the occasion for the projection of an iconoclast and champion of Islam, the assertion of the superiority of Jainism over Shaivism, the inequities of the Kaliyuga..." But, as Thapar said that those two Jains texts are propaganda for the Jains and gives just a slight reference without giving detail description. They are not historical sources even. What details did they give? Were they contemporary? If not contemporary, can they not be victim of propaganda as even many are today now? What is their source-First hand/Royal record/oral legend?
Quote: "LET me turn now to the Jaina texts of this period. These, not unexpectedly, associated a different set of concerns with the event, or else they ignore it. The 11th century Jaina poet from the Paramara court in Malwa, Dhanapala, a contemporary of Mahmud, briefly mentions Mahmud's campaign in Gujarat and his raids on various places, including Somanatha.22 He comments, however, at much greater length of Mahmud's inability to damage the icons of Mahavira in Jaina temples for, as he puts it, snakes cannot swallow Garuda nor can stars dim the light of the sun. This for him is proof of the superior power of the Jaina images as compared to the Shaiva.
In the early 12th century, another Jaina next informs us that the Chaulukya king, angered by the rakshasas, the daityas and the asuras who were destroying temples and disturbing the rishis and brahmanas, campaigned against them.23 One expects the list to include the Turushkas (as the Turks were called) but instead mention is made of the local rajas. The king is said to have made a pilgrimage to Somanatha and found that the temple was old and disintegrating. He is said to have stated that it was a disgrace that the local rajas were plundering the pilgrims to Somanatha but could not keep the temple in good repair. This is the same king who built at Cambay a mosque which was later destroyed in a campaign against the Chaulukyas of Gujarat by the Paramaras of Malwa. But the Paramara king also looted the Jaina and other temples built under the patronage of the Chaulukyas.24 It would seem that when the temple was seen as a statement of power, it could become a target of attack, irrespective of religious affiliations.
Various Jaina texts, giving the history of the famous Chaulukya king Kumarapala, mention his connection with Somanatha. It is stated that he wished to be immortalised.25 So Hemachandra, his Jaina minister, persuaded the king to replace the dilapidated wooden temple at Somanatha with a new stone temple. The temple is clearly described as dilapidated and not destroyed. When the new temple on the location of the old had been completed, both Kumarapala and Hemachandra took part in the ritual of consecration. Hemachandra wished to impress the king with the spiritual powers of a Jaina acharya, so on his bidding Shiva, the deity of the temple, appeared before the king. Kumarapala was so overcome by this miracle that he converted to the Jaina faith. The focus is again on the superior power of Jainism over Shaivism. The renovating of the temple, which is also important, takes on the symbolism of political legitimation for the king. It does seem curious that these activities focussed on the Somanatha temple, yet no mention is made of Mahmud, in spite of the raid having occurred in the previous couple of centuries. The miracle is the central point in the connection with Somanatha in these accounts.'" [4]
The Jain propaganda further says: "SOME suggestion of an anguish over what may be indirect references to the raids of Mahmud come from quite other Jaina sources and interestingly these relate to the merchant community. In an anthology of stories, one story refers to the merchant Javadi who quickly makes a fortune in trade and then goes in search of a Jaina icon which had been taken away to the land called Gajjana.26 This is clearly Ghazna. The ruler of Gajjana was a Yavana - a term by now used for those coming from the West. The Yavana ruler was easily won over by the wealth presented to him by Javadi. He allowed Javadi to search for the icon and, when it was found, gave him permission to take it back. Not only that but the Yavana worshipped the icon prior to its departure. The second part of the narrative deals with the vicissitudes of having the icon installed in Gujarat, but that is another story."
Proved:Thus Thapar proved both the Jain texts are non-contemporary and propaganda literature. Hence, they have zero historical value as far as the historical description is concerned.
I also said:"However, I never say that it (some sort of attack on Somnath though the magnitude is unknown) did not take place".
By the way, what about my other qusstions like:
I repeat again, this article is a communal PROPAGANDA. Ghatus ( talk) 05:06, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Just read the version of previous week of this article. It was a blatant communal propaganda guarded by Kansas Bear. At least some credibility has been restored now. As far as the rebuts are concerned, I could not find out what Kansas Bear is trying to do / say- supporting or opposing. LOL!!! Confused mind. Please ask your questions the way I asked with numbering. Ghatus ( talk) 03:53, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I seriously can not understand whether you are supporting or opposing the changes done. What are to trying to convey with more than half a century old book? Ask your questions with numbering, if any. Ghatus ( talk) 04:32, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
References
It looks like all of us are agreed that it was a raid, not a "destruction." Thapar mentions (p. 75) that a Kadamba king of Goa made a pilgrimage to Somnath in 1038, and the temple was apparently fine. The best information we have (from Al-Biruni as well as Kumarapala's poet) is that the idol may have been damaged by Mahmud, and he might even had carried these chips back to Ghazna. Whatever damage was done was quickly repaired. So, as I said before, it was a non-event. So, the only thing of historical interest about Somnath is the fact that it became an object of religious zeal in Turko-Persian sources for a millennium and the temple was repeatedly raided. So, a short discussion of this aspect is all that should go into this section. Cheers, Kautilya3 ( talk) 06:04, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Hello people.
I am reading al-Milal wa n-Nihal, which is a medieval heresiography of al-Tahir al-Baghdadi (d. 1037 C.E.). The book has been printed in Lebanon in 1986 and has been edited by dr. Albert Nasri Nadir from the Faculty of Philosophy of the University of Lebanon. The book is printed by Dar ul-Mashriq in Bayrut.
In the book there is a chapter about Murji'ite Jahmites under the title Dhikr-u d-Dhalal min al-Karramiyyah. In a footnote beneath it, the editor is referring to imam al-Izz ar-Ras'ani (d. 1283) and his book Mukhtasar Kitab al-Firaq bayn al Firaq, wherein it is stated according to ar-Ras'ani Mahmud of Ghazna was a Murji'ite Jahmite and NO SUNNI.
Changed it accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scimethod ( talk • contribs) 12:20, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, hope you are all ok.
The Murji'ah were definitely NOT sunni's. All sunni/traditionalist heresiographies of the Middle Ages agree upon this. Nowadays, there is a trend among modernist sunni's to incorporate or take credit for lots of elements in the history of islam which had nothing to do with sunnism. Like declaring mu'tazilites sunni, or the bulk of non-sunni mu'tazilite/kalami/falsafi scholars and scientists. The contradiction between classical traditionalist sources concerning non-sunni schools of thought and groups, and contemporary sunni modernists, is striking. The first would villify and denounce them as heretics, legalizing their murder and persecution (declaring halal their blood and posessions), while the latter declaring them 'free-thinkers' within the framework of the quran and sunna (main sources of traditionalist islam). It simply IS-NOT-TRUE.
This is my first time editing anything on wikipedia, sorry for the inconvenience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.85.50.221 ( talk) 05:54, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Ismail of Ghazni article say Mahmud's mother was a slave. 72.53.146.173 ( talk) 05:37, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
On the maternal side, he was the eldest grandson of a landowner of Zābolestān in eastern Afghanistan...."
Guess you have not bothered to check sources....-- Kansas Bear ( talk) 06:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
SheriffIsInTown: Since instead of creating a section you just suddenly start reverting, I have created one;
Mahmud wasn't Turkish, he was Turkic, two different things - hence the Turkish spelling shouldn't be there. As I said, it's like adding the Persian spelling on Skilurus. There are probably some other reasons too which I can't remember - come on, why do you think most of these kind of articles don't have the modern Turkish spelling written? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:45, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
[Copied from User talk:Kautilya3]
The statement, "According to tradition" was added 1 March 2016, can you prove it is sourced content? Else it is an unsourced addition. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 18:53, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
It seems that editors here have decided that only one narrative should be given prominence, so much so that the article has become a biased account. For example, apparently there were powerful legends on the attack on Somnath Temple (what those are the section doesn't tell us, apart from a mention of "iconoclastic" in passing), instead it focused on those who questioned those unmentioned accounts. Are those "legends" the accounts mentioned earlier, or something else? The whole article is confused, and there appears to be an unacceptable attempt to push a narrative, which is evident throughout the whole article. It is wrong that only one view is presented in the historiography section. We should attempt to give a rounded view rather than focusing on particular viewpoint, i.e. mentioned whatever those supposed "legends" were and what the scholarship opinions on those are, so that we have a clearer view. If it is something contentious then say so, rather trying to present only one point of view. Hzh ( talk) 00:15, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
First and foremost, I'd like to know what year Mahmud Ghaznavi broke off from the Sammanid Empire, and what year he adopted the Sultan title.
On the second issue, the article itself seems to have contradictory information. In the infobox, it states he adopted the Sultan title in 1002. Whereas in the section titled "Campaign timeline" its says 997. Which one is it, and are there any sources for either? - DA1 ( talk) 01:26, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
In google, Mahmud Ghaznavi has more search results that Mahmud of Ghazni. So isn't it better to rename it to a common name ? 31.215.192.185 ( talk) 15:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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According to Visioncurve, the section Ghaznavid campaigns in Indian Subcontinent was copied from quora.
The quora link is dated July 27, 2017.
Yet I am finding this version in Mahmud of Ghazni as early as 4 July 2015.
So exactly how has this been plagiarized? -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 04:12, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The IP188.170.194.197
added this to Mahmud of Ghazni:
According to Visioncurve this was taken from Quora. Here is the Quora quote:
Where is the copying?? -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 04:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
There's a specific and reliable tool that we use to find copyright and it informs that significant parts of the above-mentioned article (section of the article) have 83% of chance to be a copyright violation. Copyright issues are a serious problem with legal considerations, and must be dealt promptly. Moreover, I did not delete or remove any content, but simply placed a copyright suspicion tag. Consequently, I inevitably notified Wiki's copyright admins about this potential violation and now hope to receive a prompt response to my request.
As per discussion of each individual violation on articles' talk pages, it is considered impractical because there are dozens of potential violations to be assessed each day and only a very small group of people working on copyright cleanup. As I mentioned eaarlier - copyright issues are a serious problem with legal considerations. Thanks, -- Visioncurve ( talk) 04:54, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The word India is a creation of the Continental Europeans. It is best to avoid this word. It is connected to Continental European colonialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.44.160.64 ( talk) 02:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
The article currently gives two dates for the plundering of the temple in Somnath, 1024 and 1025. Another source quoted above says Mahmud attacked Somnath in 1025 but captured it in 1026. Bosworth (article MAḤMUD B. SEBÜKTEGIN in the Encyclopedia Iranica) says the campaign took place in 1025–6. At any rate, 1024 doesn't seem to be correct. Kanjuzi ( talk) 03:08, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence states that the Ghaznavid dynasty was a "Turkic" dynasty, but the wiki page for the Ghaznavids point out that it was "Persianate" and "Persian" in its culture, language, literature, and habits. Maybe "Turkic" should be changed to "Turko-Persian; I think It would be more accurate, consistent, and parallel with the wiki page for the Ghaznavids.
Also, I think the first source should be removed; It seems quite inaccurate:
Homa Katouzian, "Iranian history and politics", Published by Routledge, 2003. p. 128: "Indeed, since the formation of the Ghaznavids state in the tenth century until the fall of Qajars at the beginning of the twentieth century, most parts of the Iranian cultural regions were ruled by Turkic-speaking dynasties most of the time."
"Ruled by Turkic-speaking dynasties most of the time" isn't true and doesn't make sense. When you factor in the Iranian sates, Mongol states, and Persian-speaking Turkic states (such as the Ghaznavids and Seljuks) between the 11th and 20th centuries, then the above quote simply doesn't make much sense. Armanqur ( talk) 09:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
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In the "attack on Somnath" section there are grammatical errors such as "Some believes that Mahmud had to face attacks when he was returning to Kabul after 16th attack in which he captures a lot of innocent women, saints, children and money too at first Gogaji Maharaj fought fiercely but got martyred."
In addition to the numerous errors absolutely zero sources have been provided to substantiate anything written. It almost seems like someone was angry at a historical figure for whatever reason and decided it was a good idea to take their anger out on a Wikipedia article. I would like to request that someone add sources to this, if they exist, or delete this part of the article. 188.31.40.16 ( talk) 00:02, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Neither of the sources [10] and [11] are reliable.
Thee authors aren't scholars; [12] [13], nor are they historians. See WP:RS and WP:HISTRS. Noorullah ( talk) 15:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
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As usual Wikipedia is being used for creating a confusion in well documented histories in order to push certain goals. Mahmud was not a Persian but of Turkish origin. The Turks originally lived in Turkmenistan and parts of Afghanistan. When Mahmud defeated the Hindu Shahi dynasty some Shahi princes fled to Kashmir. Kashmir had supported the Hindu Shahis and also marriages took place between the royalty of both places. An angry Mahmud next attacked Kashmir twice and was soundly defeated both times by the Hindu Kashmiris. Reference of this in Rajatarangini and Kitab ta'rikh al-Hind, by Al-Biruni. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.203 ( talk) 00:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Modern researches on Somnath attack present some interesting facts. Eminent historian Romila Thapar published a book named “Somanatha: The Many Voices of a History”. It has been found that
1. There is no Hindu text available on this incident. Hence, the entire narrative of this attack is solely based on Muslim authors. (Page-16) 2. There are even internal contradictions in the Turko-Persian narratives.(Page-14, Last paragraph)
I never said it did not take place. It certainly happened. See Page No-16 and Page No-14(last paragraph). I just said:
1. There is no Hindu text available on this incident. Hence, the entire narrative of this attack is solely based on Muslim authors. (Page-16) 2. There are even internal contradictions in the Turko-Persian narratives.(Page-14, Last paragraph)
Both the statements are needed to present a correct and neutral version of history. You can change the style if needed. Ghatus ( talk) 12:44, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Ghatus was on the right track here. I don't know why everybody pounced upon him. The Somnath section is really poor with outdated sources and an extended quote from a 13th century fantasy legend. It should be rewritten based on Thapar. The entire point of her book is to demonstrate how unreliable these medieval Muslim legends are, even though they were taken to be "history" during the Raj era. - Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:32, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
These are some questions asked by a prominent historian in the 21st based on serious researches. However, I never say that it (some sort of attack on Somnath though the magnitude is unknown) did not take place. At the same time, being a student of History, I seriously doubt if most of the editors here have the needed intellectual understanding of History. One can not be a master of history by just doing some google searches. The whole article is based on stone age historiography/narration with a blatant communal point of view and Kansas Bear is guarding this . To put it in brief, the article here is rubbish. :-) Ghatus ( talk) 05:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Kautilya3:, @ Kansas Bear:
My Statement:"Why is there no "non-Muslim" "historical" sources on Somnath Attack if it had been a such a disastrous incident?"
Meaning: We depend on Muslim sources for the attack on Somnath.
Quote:"But, as is well known, Hindu sources do not give any information regarding the raids of Sultan Mahmud, so that what follows is based solely on the testimony of Muslim authers." [3]
Reference to Jains: I wrote-"There are five narratives of a same incident-"the occasion for the projection of an iconoclast and champion of Islam, the assertion of the superiority of Jainism over Shaivism, the inequities of the Kaliyuga..." But, as Thapar said that those two Jains texts are propaganda for the Jains and gives just a slight reference without giving detail description. They are not historical sources even. What details did they give? Were they contemporary? If not contemporary, can they not be victim of propaganda as even many are today now? What is their source-First hand/Royal record/oral legend?
Quote: "LET me turn now to the Jaina texts of this period. These, not unexpectedly, associated a different set of concerns with the event, or else they ignore it. The 11th century Jaina poet from the Paramara court in Malwa, Dhanapala, a contemporary of Mahmud, briefly mentions Mahmud's campaign in Gujarat and his raids on various places, including Somanatha.22 He comments, however, at much greater length of Mahmud's inability to damage the icons of Mahavira in Jaina temples for, as he puts it, snakes cannot swallow Garuda nor can stars dim the light of the sun. This for him is proof of the superior power of the Jaina images as compared to the Shaiva.
In the early 12th century, another Jaina next informs us that the Chaulukya king, angered by the rakshasas, the daityas and the asuras who were destroying temples and disturbing the rishis and brahmanas, campaigned against them.23 One expects the list to include the Turushkas (as the Turks were called) but instead mention is made of the local rajas. The king is said to have made a pilgrimage to Somanatha and found that the temple was old and disintegrating. He is said to have stated that it was a disgrace that the local rajas were plundering the pilgrims to Somanatha but could not keep the temple in good repair. This is the same king who built at Cambay a mosque which was later destroyed in a campaign against the Chaulukyas of Gujarat by the Paramaras of Malwa. But the Paramara king also looted the Jaina and other temples built under the patronage of the Chaulukyas.24 It would seem that when the temple was seen as a statement of power, it could become a target of attack, irrespective of religious affiliations.
Various Jaina texts, giving the history of the famous Chaulukya king Kumarapala, mention his connection with Somanatha. It is stated that he wished to be immortalised.25 So Hemachandra, his Jaina minister, persuaded the king to replace the dilapidated wooden temple at Somanatha with a new stone temple. The temple is clearly described as dilapidated and not destroyed. When the new temple on the location of the old had been completed, both Kumarapala and Hemachandra took part in the ritual of consecration. Hemachandra wished to impress the king with the spiritual powers of a Jaina acharya, so on his bidding Shiva, the deity of the temple, appeared before the king. Kumarapala was so overcome by this miracle that he converted to the Jaina faith. The focus is again on the superior power of Jainism over Shaivism. The renovating of the temple, which is also important, takes on the symbolism of political legitimation for the king. It does seem curious that these activities focussed on the Somanatha temple, yet no mention is made of Mahmud, in spite of the raid having occurred in the previous couple of centuries. The miracle is the central point in the connection with Somanatha in these accounts.'" [4]
The Jain propaganda further says: "SOME suggestion of an anguish over what may be indirect references to the raids of Mahmud come from quite other Jaina sources and interestingly these relate to the merchant community. In an anthology of stories, one story refers to the merchant Javadi who quickly makes a fortune in trade and then goes in search of a Jaina icon which had been taken away to the land called Gajjana.26 This is clearly Ghazna. The ruler of Gajjana was a Yavana - a term by now used for those coming from the West. The Yavana ruler was easily won over by the wealth presented to him by Javadi. He allowed Javadi to search for the icon and, when it was found, gave him permission to take it back. Not only that but the Yavana worshipped the icon prior to its departure. The second part of the narrative deals with the vicissitudes of having the icon installed in Gujarat, but that is another story."
Proved:Thus Thapar proved both the Jain texts are non-contemporary and propaganda literature. Hence, they have zero historical value as far as the historical description is concerned.
I also said:"However, I never say that it (some sort of attack on Somnath though the magnitude is unknown) did not take place".
By the way, what about my other qusstions like:
I repeat again, this article is a communal PROPAGANDA. Ghatus ( talk) 05:06, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Just read the version of previous week of this article. It was a blatant communal propaganda guarded by Kansas Bear. At least some credibility has been restored now. As far as the rebuts are concerned, I could not find out what Kansas Bear is trying to do / say- supporting or opposing. LOL!!! Confused mind. Please ask your questions the way I asked with numbering. Ghatus ( talk) 03:53, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I seriously can not understand whether you are supporting or opposing the changes done. What are to trying to convey with more than half a century old book? Ask your questions with numbering, if any. Ghatus ( talk) 04:32, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
References
It looks like all of us are agreed that it was a raid, not a "destruction." Thapar mentions (p. 75) that a Kadamba king of Goa made a pilgrimage to Somnath in 1038, and the temple was apparently fine. The best information we have (from Al-Biruni as well as Kumarapala's poet) is that the idol may have been damaged by Mahmud, and he might even had carried these chips back to Ghazna. Whatever damage was done was quickly repaired. So, as I said before, it was a non-event. So, the only thing of historical interest about Somnath is the fact that it became an object of religious zeal in Turko-Persian sources for a millennium and the temple was repeatedly raided. So, a short discussion of this aspect is all that should go into this section. Cheers, Kautilya3 ( talk) 06:04, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Hello people.
I am reading al-Milal wa n-Nihal, which is a medieval heresiography of al-Tahir al-Baghdadi (d. 1037 C.E.). The book has been printed in Lebanon in 1986 and has been edited by dr. Albert Nasri Nadir from the Faculty of Philosophy of the University of Lebanon. The book is printed by Dar ul-Mashriq in Bayrut.
In the book there is a chapter about Murji'ite Jahmites under the title Dhikr-u d-Dhalal min al-Karramiyyah. In a footnote beneath it, the editor is referring to imam al-Izz ar-Ras'ani (d. 1283) and his book Mukhtasar Kitab al-Firaq bayn al Firaq, wherein it is stated according to ar-Ras'ani Mahmud of Ghazna was a Murji'ite Jahmite and NO SUNNI.
Changed it accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scimethod ( talk • contribs) 12:20, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, hope you are all ok.
The Murji'ah were definitely NOT sunni's. All sunni/traditionalist heresiographies of the Middle Ages agree upon this. Nowadays, there is a trend among modernist sunni's to incorporate or take credit for lots of elements in the history of islam which had nothing to do with sunnism. Like declaring mu'tazilites sunni, or the bulk of non-sunni mu'tazilite/kalami/falsafi scholars and scientists. The contradiction between classical traditionalist sources concerning non-sunni schools of thought and groups, and contemporary sunni modernists, is striking. The first would villify and denounce them as heretics, legalizing their murder and persecution (declaring halal their blood and posessions), while the latter declaring them 'free-thinkers' within the framework of the quran and sunna (main sources of traditionalist islam). It simply IS-NOT-TRUE.
This is my first time editing anything on wikipedia, sorry for the inconvenience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.85.50.221 ( talk) 05:54, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Ismail of Ghazni article say Mahmud's mother was a slave. 72.53.146.173 ( talk) 05:37, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
On the maternal side, he was the eldest grandson of a landowner of Zābolestān in eastern Afghanistan...."
Guess you have not bothered to check sources....-- Kansas Bear ( talk) 06:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
SheriffIsInTown: Since instead of creating a section you just suddenly start reverting, I have created one;
Mahmud wasn't Turkish, he was Turkic, two different things - hence the Turkish spelling shouldn't be there. As I said, it's like adding the Persian spelling on Skilurus. There are probably some other reasons too which I can't remember - come on, why do you think most of these kind of articles don't have the modern Turkish spelling written? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:45, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
[Copied from User talk:Kautilya3]
The statement, "According to tradition" was added 1 March 2016, can you prove it is sourced content? Else it is an unsourced addition. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 18:53, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
It seems that editors here have decided that only one narrative should be given prominence, so much so that the article has become a biased account. For example, apparently there were powerful legends on the attack on Somnath Temple (what those are the section doesn't tell us, apart from a mention of "iconoclastic" in passing), instead it focused on those who questioned those unmentioned accounts. Are those "legends" the accounts mentioned earlier, or something else? The whole article is confused, and there appears to be an unacceptable attempt to push a narrative, which is evident throughout the whole article. It is wrong that only one view is presented in the historiography section. We should attempt to give a rounded view rather than focusing on particular viewpoint, i.e. mentioned whatever those supposed "legends" were and what the scholarship opinions on those are, so that we have a clearer view. If it is something contentious then say so, rather trying to present only one point of view. Hzh ( talk) 00:15, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
First and foremost, I'd like to know what year Mahmud Ghaznavi broke off from the Sammanid Empire, and what year he adopted the Sultan title.
On the second issue, the article itself seems to have contradictory information. In the infobox, it states he adopted the Sultan title in 1002. Whereas in the section titled "Campaign timeline" its says 997. Which one is it, and are there any sources for either? - DA1 ( talk) 01:26, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
In google, Mahmud Ghaznavi has more search results that Mahmud of Ghazni. So isn't it better to rename it to a common name ? 31.215.192.185 ( talk) 15:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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I like to add this template to this page but not sure what the problem is. This page is part of a series on Islam in South Asia. Please help! 65.95.136.96 ( talk) 14:55, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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According to Visioncurve, the section Ghaznavid campaigns in Indian Subcontinent was copied from quora.
The quora link is dated July 27, 2017.
Yet I am finding this version in Mahmud of Ghazni as early as 4 July 2015.
So exactly how has this been plagiarized? -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 04:12, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The IP188.170.194.197
added this to Mahmud of Ghazni:
According to Visioncurve this was taken from Quora. Here is the Quora quote:
Where is the copying?? -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 04:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
There's a specific and reliable tool that we use to find copyright and it informs that significant parts of the above-mentioned article (section of the article) have 83% of chance to be a copyright violation. Copyright issues are a serious problem with legal considerations, and must be dealt promptly. Moreover, I did not delete or remove any content, but simply placed a copyright suspicion tag. Consequently, I inevitably notified Wiki's copyright admins about this potential violation and now hope to receive a prompt response to my request.
As per discussion of each individual violation on articles' talk pages, it is considered impractical because there are dozens of potential violations to be assessed each day and only a very small group of people working on copyright cleanup. As I mentioned eaarlier - copyright issues are a serious problem with legal considerations. Thanks, -- Visioncurve ( talk) 04:54, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The word India is a creation of the Continental Europeans. It is best to avoid this word. It is connected to Continental European colonialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.44.160.64 ( talk) 02:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
The article currently gives two dates for the plundering of the temple in Somnath, 1024 and 1025. Another source quoted above says Mahmud attacked Somnath in 1025 but captured it in 1026. Bosworth (article MAḤMUD B. SEBÜKTEGIN in the Encyclopedia Iranica) says the campaign took place in 1025–6. At any rate, 1024 doesn't seem to be correct. Kanjuzi ( talk) 03:08, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence states that the Ghaznavid dynasty was a "Turkic" dynasty, but the wiki page for the Ghaznavids point out that it was "Persianate" and "Persian" in its culture, language, literature, and habits. Maybe "Turkic" should be changed to "Turko-Persian; I think It would be more accurate, consistent, and parallel with the wiki page for the Ghaznavids.
Also, I think the first source should be removed; It seems quite inaccurate:
Homa Katouzian, "Iranian history and politics", Published by Routledge, 2003. p. 128: "Indeed, since the formation of the Ghaznavids state in the tenth century until the fall of Qajars at the beginning of the twentieth century, most parts of the Iranian cultural regions were ruled by Turkic-speaking dynasties most of the time."
"Ruled by Turkic-speaking dynasties most of the time" isn't true and doesn't make sense. When you factor in the Iranian sates, Mongol states, and Persian-speaking Turkic states (such as the Ghaznavids and Seljuks) between the 11th and 20th centuries, then the above quote simply doesn't make much sense. Armanqur ( talk) 09:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
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In the "attack on Somnath" section there are grammatical errors such as "Some believes that Mahmud had to face attacks when he was returning to Kabul after 16th attack in which he captures a lot of innocent women, saints, children and money too at first Gogaji Maharaj fought fiercely but got martyred."
In addition to the numerous errors absolutely zero sources have been provided to substantiate anything written. It almost seems like someone was angry at a historical figure for whatever reason and decided it was a good idea to take their anger out on a Wikipedia article. I would like to request that someone add sources to this, if they exist, or delete this part of the article. 188.31.40.16 ( talk) 00:02, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Neither of the sources [10] and [11] are reliable.
Thee authors aren't scholars; [12] [13], nor are they historians. See WP:RS and WP:HISTRS. Noorullah ( talk) 15:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)