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This page was created when I spotted a large list of nuclear-themed fiction being created in Jericho (TV series), in lieu of a relevant/on topic See Also section. Lower section is a similar, but far longer list, found on The Day After. Intend to merge into a cohesive list in the next 24 hours. MrZaius talk 04:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Found more in Threads. Added see also sections with links to this page to all articles linked to above "Films and television productions". Still to be done:
As noted elsewhere. Comicbooks also feature nuclear weapons. There are post apolcalyptic depictions (that allude me now) but also depictions of nuclear weapons (The Hulk for example). The Dark Knight Returns features the effect of a single nuclear explosion effectively crippling the USA. AlanD 20:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I added The Punisher - The End to the list of comic books dealing with nuclear war. I hope I got the formatting right. 87.234.85.196 18:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I think we're having an obvious miss when we are not putting Red Dawn in the Film section
Inasmuch as the film Red Dawn is the Nuclear demolition of DC, and the Invasion of the USA by Contra's Cuban Military, and the USSR
Come ON "red dawn" Therubicon ( talk) 07:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
This article is capitalized to match the case of Nuclear Holocaust, as the term generally refers to a single, particular event, like The Holocaust in World War II. Witness the tendency to capitalize both terms outside of the wiki, as well [2]. If you care to debate this notion, do so in that article first and change both after posting Template:Move for a reasonable length of time. MrZaius talk 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The term "nuclear holocaust" is not always capitalized; the aforementioned Google search of the term reveals that the capitalized references are headlines, reverting to lower case within the body of the article. (The fact that Nuclear Holocaust is incorrectly titled is not a valid argument for mis-titling this article to match it.) I'll wait a few days for discussion before restoring the correct title, but right now the page contravenes the naming convention. -- Ckatz chat spy 00:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)"For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence."
The nuclear holocaust article has just been moved to the uncapitalized title, per a listing at WP:RM and accompanying discussion. It seems appropriate to suggest that this article be moved likewise; I'm not just completing the move because I see it's come up here before, so it might be best to ask first. Opinions? - GTBacchus( talk) 08:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't really see how alphabetical is "more intuitive". Alphabetical order is only relevant if one already knows the name of a film or program. Chronological order gives a better view of how the topic has been treated in popular culture over time. Pjbflynn 23:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Please use chronological - it's FAR easier to read and understand when looking at just about everything on wikipedia. 71.165.76.188 ( talk) 08:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Not all entries fit the title and the first paragraph, as they do not picture a nuclear holocaust/massive nuclear attack. Like:
So: Remove the incorrect entries or adjust the first paragraph? -- MushroomCloud 18:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I would keep " List of nuclear holocaust fiction" as a separate article because:
I would, however, propose inserting a hyphen, for clarity, between "nuclear" and "holocaust" in this article's title, because "nuclear-holocaust" comprises a single adjective that modifies the noun "fiction."
seems no non-English fiction is included on this page, so perhaps the title should be modified. 9ulk—Preceding undated comment added by 9ulk ( talk • contribs) 22:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Someone has compiled a list of nuke songs from the 1980s here: http://www.inthe80s.com/nuclearwar/index.shtml
I have not had a chance to go through it and verify its accuracy (or verify that those songs weren't already on the list) but thought I'd post it here for the general good. Jkp1187 ( talk) 18:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I would add Patrick Tilley's 'Amtrak Wars' to the list The Amtrak Wars, not only are they set in post nuclear war apocalyptic Earth but they feature a really interesting advanced bunker based civilization.
A book film that surely should be here is HG Wells 'The Time Machine'
The Time Machine, in the 1960 film version the Morlock civilization is definitely post nuclear.
Another is L Ron Hubbard's 'Battlefield Earth' again set hundreds of years after a fairly one sided nuclear war - between humans and Psychlos. - The book should never be compared with the movie, widely regarded as one of the worst ever made.
Finally would be Samuel R Delany's 'The Fall of The Towers' one of the truly great 'forgotten' science fiction masterpieces. The civilization seems to be set on an earth thousands of years after a nuclear holocaust.
Hope that helps Lucien86 ( talk) 05:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
What about Kevin Costner's "The Postman" and Star Trek "First Contact" (or rather "Borg"). [[[Special:Contributions/79.196.198.47|79.196.198.47]] ( talk) 01:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
1984 is post-nuclear. Can't believe this one was overlooked. One of the earliest examples. 71.244.105.49 ( talk) 00:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
There are a number of entires that seem to be iffy at best.
Why are these on a list that should be about the end of civilisation, not the destruction of a coule of cities? Slatersteven ( talk) 16:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
When I added The Bedford Incident it was deleted. OK, it does actually depicts circumstances under which nuclear war might occur rather then aftermath of nuclear confrontation. But so does Dr. Strangelove (1964) because there is no nuclear war, throuhout the film there are efforts to stop bombers until the the film's very end. Only at the end nuclear war starts and then is also debated possibility of survivale and continuation of conflict (mineshaft gap). Also in Dreams ("Mount Fuji in Red") (1990) story is about nuclear reactor accident and not about a war. And The Day the Earth Caught Fire (1961) is about consequences of nuclear testing on the life on the Earth, not about war. So please or keep the same criteria upholded so far and include The Bedford Incident (1965) or cleanup the list and keep only the movies that depicts world while the nuclear bombs are falling, or after the bombs have fallen, and civilisation and people are living or trying to survive in a world after the fulscale nuclear war or limited nuclear excange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.141.101.229 ( talk) 18:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
There is an easy way to deal with this issue. It seems obvious that in Cold War era movies, the threat of nuclear war and the many fictional story-lines where a war is started by the mistaken use of one weapon meant that a movie, show, etc. that ends with a mushroom cloud is ending with a full-scale war. It was part of of cold war cultural vocabulary. Still, like Slatersteven said, just because we can see that doesn't mean we should make assumptions, that would be synthesis. The measure should be the content of the media. If the entire plot of a movie consists of the characters trying to prevent a full-scale nuclear war by preventing the use of one bomb, then obviously if that bomb goes off, they fail and there is a war (assuming at that point that the incident COULD be dealt with diplomatically would be a similar kind of synthesis). If, on the other hand, the plot of the movie has characters trying to stop one bomb just to save lives or prevent a nuclear incident, then nuclear war on a massive scale is only a possibility that we imagine. Pwoodfor ( talk) 23:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The Films section has a sortable table but the other sectons do not. I think it would be very helpful to create table for those too, so it can be sorted by the reader based on date vs name, etc. Anyone up to the task? I'm not as well versed in that. I can make the attempt but would rather have someone with experience do it.-- MartinezMD ( talk) 14:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Should A Letter from the Clearys be on the list of short stories? 122.49.141.104 ( talk) 08:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I suggest The Matrix and Terminator: Salvation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.57.57 ( talk) 08:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
"Barefoot Gen, Japanese manga about life after the Hiroshima bombing"
Since the Manga ist - at least in parts, especially in the first half of the series - autobiographical, and not about a holocaust, why is it in alist of "nuclear holocaust fiction"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.24.177.245 ( talk) 14:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
What about the song Hello Planet by the Vocaloid Miku Hatsune, written by sasakure.uk? It may not be popular, but you can buy it on itunes. Its all about a robot living in a future after man has been wiped out by nucleur bombs trying to figure out what happened. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.32.11 ( talk) 19:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Um...I don't really understand what that means, but here is the song with english subtitles and a music video: [3] . It is also a sequel of this song (english subtitles provided): [4] and all are written by sasakure.uk. In the prequel song to Hello Planet it is obvious that a nuclear war is about to happen and Hello Planet describes the aftermath. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 19:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC) Oh, and here is the itunes bit that shows that its not just some random made up not published song: [5] It's listed number 13 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mew Mitsuki ( talk • contribs) 19:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Could you please explain notability? I'm not really used to the lingo and stuff around Wiki, I only get on to edit every now and then. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 20:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh wow I'm such a ditz ^^; Anyways, I read the article, and I'm still a little confused on how to demonstrate notability. I already gave a source that has significant coverage, I'm not self-advertising, etc. Also, the link you gave me specifically states that the rules listed in it only have to do with the creation of an article NOT with its content. I'm not asking that we make a whole page dedicated to Hello Planet. I'm saying that we add it in the content of an already existing page. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 23:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
[6] Go down to Shuumatsu-ron section, and it talks all about the whole series, mentioning specifically Hello Planet (while also referencing Our 16-bit Wars, Weekend (Worldend) is Coming, and Wanderlust). And uh...what's the RSN notice board? Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 17:23, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay...but whats an RSN notice board? Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 21:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah okay. Just saw that tvtopes is officially nonreliable source...and I really don't feel like keeping this up anymore even though I know I"m right but there aren't any sources I can give that aren't youtube oriented or in different languages that I don't even understand. So...yeah. I guess we don't have to add it. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 20:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay I'll go do that. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 19:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Wow I'm stupid. Okay here it is [7] it is a transcript of the diary of the Master ('you' described in the song) that can be found in the video game version of Hello Planet (called Haropura in this quick google translation). It describes the nuclear war going on and how he made Miku (the main character in the song) and taught her to sing and gave her the plant in the song and some things about the song Wanderlast. The game was found in Project Diva. Oh, and here on the offical sega site for Project Diva they explain the minigame based on the song as being Miku going through a nuclear war-torn world. [8] (you need to scroll down a little to see it its like the third paragraph). I'm pretty sure the sega site would be a reliable source. If not I can find more. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 01:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else feel like a page on Nuclear Holocaust Fiction should include how they are not to be taken as likely? Criticism is due.
For example it is commonly believed that a nuclear war would result in a Nuclear Winter whereas that is highly speculative, as discussed in the article.
More concretely, it is commonly believed( due in no small part, to the public viewing 'Nuclear Fiction') that a Nuclear War would result in massive amounts of deformed grotesque mutant babies being born, however over 50 years of study into the effects of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have found the exact opposite.- The RERF clearly state- No statistically significant increase in major birth defects or other untoward pregnancy outcomes was seen among children of survivors. Monitoring of nearly all pregnancies in Hiroshima and Nagasaki began in 1948 and continued for six years. During that period, 76,626 newborn infants were examined by ABCC physicians. http://www.rerf.or.jp/radefx/genetics_e/birthdef.html
Lastly, it is common in Nuclear fiction to mock Civil Defense, again due to no small part in the public watching and believing Nuclear Fiction. However a 2010 paper by Melissa Smith -Architects of Armageddon: the Home Office Scientific Advisers'- states clearly- detailed research programmes lay behind the much-mocked government civil defence pamphlets of the 1950s and 1960s http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7805718
So bearing all that in mind, shouldn't there be a section critiquing Nuclear Fiction? especially since it is usually the source of much of people's false beliefs on what Nuclear War would be like. Nuclear War would be horrific no doubt, but much of the Nuclear Fiction out there is utter nonsense.
At the very least, there should be a Nuclear Fiction page, like there is for accurate Sci-Fi Hard Science Fiction that includes works that are characterized by an emphasis on scientific & technical detail and accuracy.
What do you all think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 00:50, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, Hard Science Fiction is also Fiction, but for the most part it is based in reality/the laws of physics apply, that is why it is not lumped in with general Science Fiction. Thus neither should Nuclear Fiction be such a broad article. Boundarylayer ( talk) 05:39, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
You don't understand, whether it is fiction or not, is not up for debate, of course it's fiction. So too is Hard Science Fiction but works in that genre follow the laws of Physics and reality. However many Nuclear Holocaust works present absurd biology and physics errors, just like Science Fiction. What I'm proposing is a new section or article to be created that only discusses Nuclear Holocaust works that are not improbable/laughable ones, in a similar vein to Hard Science Fiction. Boundarylayer ( talk) 10:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
We don't need to create a new genre(and if I were going to write a book you'd be in it :-), we simply have to divide the fiction list into those that are accurate in their presentation and those that are not. For example, On the Beach was heavily criticised for being woefully inaccurate. Boundarylayer ( talk) 15:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
One thing to keep in mind - with all of the atmospheric testing from the 1940's to the 1960's (along with Hiroshima and Nagasaki), some <who?... hahaha can't find the link GIFYS> claim that the Earth has already experienced the equivalent of a moderate intensity prolonged nuclear war. Granted it came without the social impacts of a war (nobody dead, economies intact).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.59.92 ( talk) 17:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
The Atomic Cafe is not a piece of fiction, but rather a documentary about 1950s "Cold War Culture". I propose that we remove it from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iannerd97 ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
There is NOTHING in the 1982 Blade Runner film to suggest it takes place after a nuclear war. It's possible Dick's novel might be so set, but the movie takes many liberties with the novel. The description with it seems to be a possible violation of WP:NOR. I suggest its removal. 70.72.211.35 ( talk) 20:38, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Nowhere in the film or novel The Road is the nature of the cataclysm revealed. In fact in both the film and novel cities are somewhat intact. There is no mention of radioactivity. Additionally, there is numerous mention of increased seismic activity, suggesting a non nuclear event - but that is speculation on my part. McCarthy himself never finalized the nature of the event in his mind. When asked if it was a nuclear war or a comet, he replies something along the lines of, "Yes." (Can't find the link to that interview.) "A long shear of light followed by a series of low concussions" or some such. That is all the detail we get. In the story of Man asks Eli (the old man) to "tell him where the world went" suggesting that the Man didn't know what happened either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.139.107 ( talk) 16:28, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Any works here in which there is any question, doubt or ambiguity about whether being nuclear in nature, should be considered for either;
(there's no need to fret...) - theWOLFchild 18:36, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
I must wonder what the nature is of whatever form of mental handicap must be suffered by whomever added 'Chernobyl Diaries' to this list. 'Chernobyl Diaries' is about a group of tourists visiting the Ukrainian town of Pripyat which was abandoned after the 1986 Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant disaster; they get stranded there and unfortunate things happen to them. It has absolutely nothing to do with nuclear warfare, the apocalypse, the end of the world, global cataclysm, World War 3, massive loss of life, or nuclear weapons in general. Just because the movie may have had a small metal sign in it depicting the radiation symbol does not warrant its presence on this list. Please, if your IQ could be the sum of a tennis score, do not edit Wikipedia. Thank you. Jade Phoenix Pence ( talk) 20:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence
I decided to add Splatoon onto this list, as its events are caused by a nuclear strike on antarctica during world war five.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Runningcrabburps ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
George Miller himself stated so. [9] Spartan198 ( talk) 13:33, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The
Music section has
been removed on the grounds that "Music is not fiction". Factually I agree, but I think the section itself is worthwhile to have. So I am wondering what's the best strategy. Should we spin the list out? I think the topic of nuclear holocaust/atomic war in music is notable/would fullfill
WP:LISTN. But would it be beneficial to have that separate? Or should we restore the section and possibly change the title to
Nuclear holocaust in popular culture or something like that? To very clear, however, I would not want an namechange to be an argument that this would the not fullfill
WP:LISTN for not having secondary sources discussing nuclear holocaust in popular culture, after it
was established that secondary sources are sufficient to establish notability for ...in fiction.
Now why I think nuclear holocaust/atomic war in music is notable:
The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.This is policy. WP:BRD is an essay for an optional process that encourages bold editing. We were already talking, so the revert is a reversal of WP:ONUS. As for your links, these do not demonstrate that music is considered fiction, which is what I asked above (
Is that [Music is fiction] a mainstream solidly sourced point of view?. Neither do they show that a treatment of fiction as a collection usually includes music. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 07:11, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
songs CAN be fictionand similar. So let's be clear on definitions, because something very unobvious is going on here. So here are some points:
This, I believe, is self evidently what is meant by the term fiction. Oxford Languages describes it thus:The species of literature which is concerned with the narration of imaginary events and the portraiture of imaginary characters; fictitious composition. Now usually, prose novels and stories collectively; the composition of works of this class.
This is the definition that is cited at the head of our Fiction article. Note that by this definition "fiction" is written in prose.literature in the form of prose that describes imaginary events and people.
Songs can describe imaginary events, and these are clearly fictions. But, and this is very important, we are now applying a second definition of fiction to supplement the first, and this is the very definition of equivocation.Something that is invented or untrue.
games scholar Espen Aarseth claims that some elements of videogames are not fictional, but present virtual or simulated items (Aarseth 2005). The apparent fictive aspects of Oblivion referred to above may be virtual rather than fictional.and the author makes a case that video games may be fictions, but saying
There are a number of potential variations or confusions in the thesis that videogames are fictions.This is the point I have made above regarding equivocation, and the resolution is the same. What is needed for this list to remain as it is is: reliable secondary sources, independent of the subject, that treat the subject as a group. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 20:17, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
In the deletion discussion, arguments to keep this list were predicated on treatment of the subject as a list based on the 8 sources that satisfied WP:NLIST by treating the subject as a group. Examining each of these we have:
The following bibliography is intended as a list of and commentary on novels, short stories, and plays written between 1895 and 1984 which specifically depict nuclear war and its aftermath.
Ankvab, Vladimir. Abryskil. Moscow: Molodaia gvardiia, 1972. 150pp. Excerpts published earlier in Tekhnika-Molodezhi, 1965: no. 3, p.18.-A mixture of fantasy and SF told in verse narrative. This is not music though. It is fiction written in verse.
books with realistic views of both war and peace are still rare,so this again appears to restrict itself to books.
Summary No source used to demonstrate notability for this collection includes music in the collection. No source restricting itself to fiction includes anything but prose fiction, in line with the dictionary definition of fiction as quoted above. Inclusion of music in this list is therefore WP:OR. Either this page is about more than fiction as a collection, or else the music should be moved to a page where it may be appropriately treated. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 07:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
References
Most of these films don't meet the criteria. A nuclear holocaust is a set of events which are an apocalypse. Post-apocalyptic fiction, by definition, takes place after those events. Whether or not it was a nuclear apocalypse or caused by a pandemic or asteroid or something else does not make a difference in terms of it's being after the fact.
A film about the actual Holocaust (The Shoah) is not the same as the aftermath for those persecuted who escaped execution or punishing of the guilty.
Kapo (1960) is a fiction film about the Holocaust itself but Sophie's Choice (1985) and The Debt (2007 & 2010) are fiction about the aftermath.
Similarly, The Day After is fiction about a nuclear holocaust. So are Threads and On the Beach. I can't see any reasonable person saying that Planet of the Apes or Mad Max: Thunder Road are about a nuclear armaggedon. They take place after one, but that is merely the setting, not the subject.
SalClements ( talk) 21:28, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Please put The Fourth Protocol (film) into the list. Thanks. 80.62.116.140 ( talk) 01:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 27 March 2023. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about List of nuclear holocaust fiction. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about List of nuclear holocaust fiction at the Reference desk. |
This page was created when I spotted a large list of nuclear-themed fiction being created in Jericho (TV series), in lieu of a relevant/on topic See Also section. Lower section is a similar, but far longer list, found on The Day After. Intend to merge into a cohesive list in the next 24 hours. MrZaius talk 04:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Found more in Threads. Added see also sections with links to this page to all articles linked to above "Films and television productions". Still to be done:
As noted elsewhere. Comicbooks also feature nuclear weapons. There are post apolcalyptic depictions (that allude me now) but also depictions of nuclear weapons (The Hulk for example). The Dark Knight Returns features the effect of a single nuclear explosion effectively crippling the USA. AlanD 20:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I added The Punisher - The End to the list of comic books dealing with nuclear war. I hope I got the formatting right. 87.234.85.196 18:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I think we're having an obvious miss when we are not putting Red Dawn in the Film section
Inasmuch as the film Red Dawn is the Nuclear demolition of DC, and the Invasion of the USA by Contra's Cuban Military, and the USSR
Come ON "red dawn" Therubicon ( talk) 07:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
This article is capitalized to match the case of Nuclear Holocaust, as the term generally refers to a single, particular event, like The Holocaust in World War II. Witness the tendency to capitalize both terms outside of the wiki, as well [2]. If you care to debate this notion, do so in that article first and change both after posting Template:Move for a reasonable length of time. MrZaius talk 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The term "nuclear holocaust" is not always capitalized; the aforementioned Google search of the term reveals that the capitalized references are headlines, reverting to lower case within the body of the article. (The fact that Nuclear Holocaust is incorrectly titled is not a valid argument for mis-titling this article to match it.) I'll wait a few days for discussion before restoring the correct title, but right now the page contravenes the naming convention. -- Ckatz chat spy 00:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)"For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence."
The nuclear holocaust article has just been moved to the uncapitalized title, per a listing at WP:RM and accompanying discussion. It seems appropriate to suggest that this article be moved likewise; I'm not just completing the move because I see it's come up here before, so it might be best to ask first. Opinions? - GTBacchus( talk) 08:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't really see how alphabetical is "more intuitive". Alphabetical order is only relevant if one already knows the name of a film or program. Chronological order gives a better view of how the topic has been treated in popular culture over time. Pjbflynn 23:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Please use chronological - it's FAR easier to read and understand when looking at just about everything on wikipedia. 71.165.76.188 ( talk) 08:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Not all entries fit the title and the first paragraph, as they do not picture a nuclear holocaust/massive nuclear attack. Like:
So: Remove the incorrect entries or adjust the first paragraph? -- MushroomCloud 18:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I would keep " List of nuclear holocaust fiction" as a separate article because:
I would, however, propose inserting a hyphen, for clarity, between "nuclear" and "holocaust" in this article's title, because "nuclear-holocaust" comprises a single adjective that modifies the noun "fiction."
seems no non-English fiction is included on this page, so perhaps the title should be modified. 9ulk—Preceding undated comment added by 9ulk ( talk • contribs) 22:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Someone has compiled a list of nuke songs from the 1980s here: http://www.inthe80s.com/nuclearwar/index.shtml
I have not had a chance to go through it and verify its accuracy (or verify that those songs weren't already on the list) but thought I'd post it here for the general good. Jkp1187 ( talk) 18:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I would add Patrick Tilley's 'Amtrak Wars' to the list The Amtrak Wars, not only are they set in post nuclear war apocalyptic Earth but they feature a really interesting advanced bunker based civilization.
A book film that surely should be here is HG Wells 'The Time Machine'
The Time Machine, in the 1960 film version the Morlock civilization is definitely post nuclear.
Another is L Ron Hubbard's 'Battlefield Earth' again set hundreds of years after a fairly one sided nuclear war - between humans and Psychlos. - The book should never be compared with the movie, widely regarded as one of the worst ever made.
Finally would be Samuel R Delany's 'The Fall of The Towers' one of the truly great 'forgotten' science fiction masterpieces. The civilization seems to be set on an earth thousands of years after a nuclear holocaust.
Hope that helps Lucien86 ( talk) 05:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
What about Kevin Costner's "The Postman" and Star Trek "First Contact" (or rather "Borg"). [[[Special:Contributions/79.196.198.47|79.196.198.47]] ( talk) 01:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
1984 is post-nuclear. Can't believe this one was overlooked. One of the earliest examples. 71.244.105.49 ( talk) 00:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
There are a number of entires that seem to be iffy at best.
Why are these on a list that should be about the end of civilisation, not the destruction of a coule of cities? Slatersteven ( talk) 16:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
When I added The Bedford Incident it was deleted. OK, it does actually depicts circumstances under which nuclear war might occur rather then aftermath of nuclear confrontation. But so does Dr. Strangelove (1964) because there is no nuclear war, throuhout the film there are efforts to stop bombers until the the film's very end. Only at the end nuclear war starts and then is also debated possibility of survivale and continuation of conflict (mineshaft gap). Also in Dreams ("Mount Fuji in Red") (1990) story is about nuclear reactor accident and not about a war. And The Day the Earth Caught Fire (1961) is about consequences of nuclear testing on the life on the Earth, not about war. So please or keep the same criteria upholded so far and include The Bedford Incident (1965) or cleanup the list and keep only the movies that depicts world while the nuclear bombs are falling, or after the bombs have fallen, and civilisation and people are living or trying to survive in a world after the fulscale nuclear war or limited nuclear excange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.141.101.229 ( talk) 18:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
There is an easy way to deal with this issue. It seems obvious that in Cold War era movies, the threat of nuclear war and the many fictional story-lines where a war is started by the mistaken use of one weapon meant that a movie, show, etc. that ends with a mushroom cloud is ending with a full-scale war. It was part of of cold war cultural vocabulary. Still, like Slatersteven said, just because we can see that doesn't mean we should make assumptions, that would be synthesis. The measure should be the content of the media. If the entire plot of a movie consists of the characters trying to prevent a full-scale nuclear war by preventing the use of one bomb, then obviously if that bomb goes off, they fail and there is a war (assuming at that point that the incident COULD be dealt with diplomatically would be a similar kind of synthesis). If, on the other hand, the plot of the movie has characters trying to stop one bomb just to save lives or prevent a nuclear incident, then nuclear war on a massive scale is only a possibility that we imagine. Pwoodfor ( talk) 23:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The Films section has a sortable table but the other sectons do not. I think it would be very helpful to create table for those too, so it can be sorted by the reader based on date vs name, etc. Anyone up to the task? I'm not as well versed in that. I can make the attempt but would rather have someone with experience do it.-- MartinezMD ( talk) 14:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Should A Letter from the Clearys be on the list of short stories? 122.49.141.104 ( talk) 08:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I suggest The Matrix and Terminator: Salvation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.57.57 ( talk) 08:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
"Barefoot Gen, Japanese manga about life after the Hiroshima bombing"
Since the Manga ist - at least in parts, especially in the first half of the series - autobiographical, and not about a holocaust, why is it in alist of "nuclear holocaust fiction"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.24.177.245 ( talk) 14:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
What about the song Hello Planet by the Vocaloid Miku Hatsune, written by sasakure.uk? It may not be popular, but you can buy it on itunes. Its all about a robot living in a future after man has been wiped out by nucleur bombs trying to figure out what happened. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.32.11 ( talk) 19:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Um...I don't really understand what that means, but here is the song with english subtitles and a music video: [3] . It is also a sequel of this song (english subtitles provided): [4] and all are written by sasakure.uk. In the prequel song to Hello Planet it is obvious that a nuclear war is about to happen and Hello Planet describes the aftermath. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 19:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC) Oh, and here is the itunes bit that shows that its not just some random made up not published song: [5] It's listed number 13 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mew Mitsuki ( talk • contribs) 19:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Could you please explain notability? I'm not really used to the lingo and stuff around Wiki, I only get on to edit every now and then. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 20:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh wow I'm such a ditz ^^; Anyways, I read the article, and I'm still a little confused on how to demonstrate notability. I already gave a source that has significant coverage, I'm not self-advertising, etc. Also, the link you gave me specifically states that the rules listed in it only have to do with the creation of an article NOT with its content. I'm not asking that we make a whole page dedicated to Hello Planet. I'm saying that we add it in the content of an already existing page. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 23:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
[6] Go down to Shuumatsu-ron section, and it talks all about the whole series, mentioning specifically Hello Planet (while also referencing Our 16-bit Wars, Weekend (Worldend) is Coming, and Wanderlust). And uh...what's the RSN notice board? Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 17:23, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay...but whats an RSN notice board? Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 21:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah okay. Just saw that tvtopes is officially nonreliable source...and I really don't feel like keeping this up anymore even though I know I"m right but there aren't any sources I can give that aren't youtube oriented or in different languages that I don't even understand. So...yeah. I guess we don't have to add it. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 20:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay I'll go do that. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 19:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Wow I'm stupid. Okay here it is [7] it is a transcript of the diary of the Master ('you' described in the song) that can be found in the video game version of Hello Planet (called Haropura in this quick google translation). It describes the nuclear war going on and how he made Miku (the main character in the song) and taught her to sing and gave her the plant in the song and some things about the song Wanderlast. The game was found in Project Diva. Oh, and here on the offical sega site for Project Diva they explain the minigame based on the song as being Miku going through a nuclear war-torn world. [8] (you need to scroll down a little to see it its like the third paragraph). I'm pretty sure the sega site would be a reliable source. If not I can find more. Mew Mitsuki ( talk) 01:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else feel like a page on Nuclear Holocaust Fiction should include how they are not to be taken as likely? Criticism is due.
For example it is commonly believed that a nuclear war would result in a Nuclear Winter whereas that is highly speculative, as discussed in the article.
More concretely, it is commonly believed( due in no small part, to the public viewing 'Nuclear Fiction') that a Nuclear War would result in massive amounts of deformed grotesque mutant babies being born, however over 50 years of study into the effects of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have found the exact opposite.- The RERF clearly state- No statistically significant increase in major birth defects or other untoward pregnancy outcomes was seen among children of survivors. Monitoring of nearly all pregnancies in Hiroshima and Nagasaki began in 1948 and continued for six years. During that period, 76,626 newborn infants were examined by ABCC physicians. http://www.rerf.or.jp/radefx/genetics_e/birthdef.html
Lastly, it is common in Nuclear fiction to mock Civil Defense, again due to no small part in the public watching and believing Nuclear Fiction. However a 2010 paper by Melissa Smith -Architects of Armageddon: the Home Office Scientific Advisers'- states clearly- detailed research programmes lay behind the much-mocked government civil defence pamphlets of the 1950s and 1960s http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7805718
So bearing all that in mind, shouldn't there be a section critiquing Nuclear Fiction? especially since it is usually the source of much of people's false beliefs on what Nuclear War would be like. Nuclear War would be horrific no doubt, but much of the Nuclear Fiction out there is utter nonsense.
At the very least, there should be a Nuclear Fiction page, like there is for accurate Sci-Fi Hard Science Fiction that includes works that are characterized by an emphasis on scientific & technical detail and accuracy.
What do you all think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 00:50, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, Hard Science Fiction is also Fiction, but for the most part it is based in reality/the laws of physics apply, that is why it is not lumped in with general Science Fiction. Thus neither should Nuclear Fiction be such a broad article. Boundarylayer ( talk) 05:39, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
You don't understand, whether it is fiction or not, is not up for debate, of course it's fiction. So too is Hard Science Fiction but works in that genre follow the laws of Physics and reality. However many Nuclear Holocaust works present absurd biology and physics errors, just like Science Fiction. What I'm proposing is a new section or article to be created that only discusses Nuclear Holocaust works that are not improbable/laughable ones, in a similar vein to Hard Science Fiction. Boundarylayer ( talk) 10:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
We don't need to create a new genre(and if I were going to write a book you'd be in it :-), we simply have to divide the fiction list into those that are accurate in their presentation and those that are not. For example, On the Beach was heavily criticised for being woefully inaccurate. Boundarylayer ( talk) 15:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
One thing to keep in mind - with all of the atmospheric testing from the 1940's to the 1960's (along with Hiroshima and Nagasaki), some <who?... hahaha can't find the link GIFYS> claim that the Earth has already experienced the equivalent of a moderate intensity prolonged nuclear war. Granted it came without the social impacts of a war (nobody dead, economies intact).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.59.92 ( talk) 17:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
The Atomic Cafe is not a piece of fiction, but rather a documentary about 1950s "Cold War Culture". I propose that we remove it from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iannerd97 ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
There is NOTHING in the 1982 Blade Runner film to suggest it takes place after a nuclear war. It's possible Dick's novel might be so set, but the movie takes many liberties with the novel. The description with it seems to be a possible violation of WP:NOR. I suggest its removal. 70.72.211.35 ( talk) 20:38, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Nowhere in the film or novel The Road is the nature of the cataclysm revealed. In fact in both the film and novel cities are somewhat intact. There is no mention of radioactivity. Additionally, there is numerous mention of increased seismic activity, suggesting a non nuclear event - but that is speculation on my part. McCarthy himself never finalized the nature of the event in his mind. When asked if it was a nuclear war or a comet, he replies something along the lines of, "Yes." (Can't find the link to that interview.) "A long shear of light followed by a series of low concussions" or some such. That is all the detail we get. In the story of Man asks Eli (the old man) to "tell him where the world went" suggesting that the Man didn't know what happened either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.139.107 ( talk) 16:28, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Any works here in which there is any question, doubt or ambiguity about whether being nuclear in nature, should be considered for either;
(there's no need to fret...) - theWOLFchild 18:36, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
I must wonder what the nature is of whatever form of mental handicap must be suffered by whomever added 'Chernobyl Diaries' to this list. 'Chernobyl Diaries' is about a group of tourists visiting the Ukrainian town of Pripyat which was abandoned after the 1986 Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant disaster; they get stranded there and unfortunate things happen to them. It has absolutely nothing to do with nuclear warfare, the apocalypse, the end of the world, global cataclysm, World War 3, massive loss of life, or nuclear weapons in general. Just because the movie may have had a small metal sign in it depicting the radiation symbol does not warrant its presence on this list. Please, if your IQ could be the sum of a tennis score, do not edit Wikipedia. Thank you. Jade Phoenix Pence ( talk) 20:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence
I decided to add Splatoon onto this list, as its events are caused by a nuclear strike on antarctica during world war five.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Runningcrabburps ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
George Miller himself stated so. [9] Spartan198 ( talk) 13:33, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The
Music section has
been removed on the grounds that "Music is not fiction". Factually I agree, but I think the section itself is worthwhile to have. So I am wondering what's the best strategy. Should we spin the list out? I think the topic of nuclear holocaust/atomic war in music is notable/would fullfill
WP:LISTN. But would it be beneficial to have that separate? Or should we restore the section and possibly change the title to
Nuclear holocaust in popular culture or something like that? To very clear, however, I would not want an namechange to be an argument that this would the not fullfill
WP:LISTN for not having secondary sources discussing nuclear holocaust in popular culture, after it
was established that secondary sources are sufficient to establish notability for ...in fiction.
Now why I think nuclear holocaust/atomic war in music is notable:
The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.This is policy. WP:BRD is an essay for an optional process that encourages bold editing. We were already talking, so the revert is a reversal of WP:ONUS. As for your links, these do not demonstrate that music is considered fiction, which is what I asked above (
Is that [Music is fiction] a mainstream solidly sourced point of view?. Neither do they show that a treatment of fiction as a collection usually includes music. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 07:11, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
songs CAN be fictionand similar. So let's be clear on definitions, because something very unobvious is going on here. So here are some points:
This, I believe, is self evidently what is meant by the term fiction. Oxford Languages describes it thus:The species of literature which is concerned with the narration of imaginary events and the portraiture of imaginary characters; fictitious composition. Now usually, prose novels and stories collectively; the composition of works of this class.
This is the definition that is cited at the head of our Fiction article. Note that by this definition "fiction" is written in prose.literature in the form of prose that describes imaginary events and people.
Songs can describe imaginary events, and these are clearly fictions. But, and this is very important, we are now applying a second definition of fiction to supplement the first, and this is the very definition of equivocation.Something that is invented or untrue.
games scholar Espen Aarseth claims that some elements of videogames are not fictional, but present virtual or simulated items (Aarseth 2005). The apparent fictive aspects of Oblivion referred to above may be virtual rather than fictional.and the author makes a case that video games may be fictions, but saying
There are a number of potential variations or confusions in the thesis that videogames are fictions.This is the point I have made above regarding equivocation, and the resolution is the same. What is needed for this list to remain as it is is: reliable secondary sources, independent of the subject, that treat the subject as a group. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 20:17, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
In the deletion discussion, arguments to keep this list were predicated on treatment of the subject as a list based on the 8 sources that satisfied WP:NLIST by treating the subject as a group. Examining each of these we have:
The following bibliography is intended as a list of and commentary on novels, short stories, and plays written between 1895 and 1984 which specifically depict nuclear war and its aftermath.
Ankvab, Vladimir. Abryskil. Moscow: Molodaia gvardiia, 1972. 150pp. Excerpts published earlier in Tekhnika-Molodezhi, 1965: no. 3, p.18.-A mixture of fantasy and SF told in verse narrative. This is not music though. It is fiction written in verse.
books with realistic views of both war and peace are still rare,so this again appears to restrict itself to books.
Summary No source used to demonstrate notability for this collection includes music in the collection. No source restricting itself to fiction includes anything but prose fiction, in line with the dictionary definition of fiction as quoted above. Inclusion of music in this list is therefore WP:OR. Either this page is about more than fiction as a collection, or else the music should be moved to a page where it may be appropriately treated. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 07:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
References
Most of these films don't meet the criteria. A nuclear holocaust is a set of events which are an apocalypse. Post-apocalyptic fiction, by definition, takes place after those events. Whether or not it was a nuclear apocalypse or caused by a pandemic or asteroid or something else does not make a difference in terms of it's being after the fact.
A film about the actual Holocaust (The Shoah) is not the same as the aftermath for those persecuted who escaped execution or punishing of the guilty.
Kapo (1960) is a fiction film about the Holocaust itself but Sophie's Choice (1985) and The Debt (2007 & 2010) are fiction about the aftermath.
Similarly, The Day After is fiction about a nuclear holocaust. So are Threads and On the Beach. I can't see any reasonable person saying that Planet of the Apes or Mad Max: Thunder Road are about a nuclear armaggedon. They take place after one, but that is merely the setting, not the subject.
SalClements ( talk) 21:28, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Please put The Fourth Protocol (film) into the list. Thanks. 80.62.116.140 ( talk) 01:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)