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Kitsune is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Although the statement "The victim is always a young woman, whom the fox enters beneath her fingernails or through her breasts" in the "Kitsunetsuki" section is cited to page 59 of Nozaki's Kitsune book, it's completely unsupported in the Scribd scan of the book itself at http://www.scribd.com/doc/3870634/Kitsune-Japans-Fox-of-Mystery-Romance-and-Humor-by-Kiyoshi-Nozaki . My computer is too sluggy right now for me to check some of the other refs within the book, but someone should really go in and verify more of the supposed citations. -- Wombat1138 ( talk) 02:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The section on Kitsune in fiction needs to be seriously reworked; perhaps it would be best to remove the simple list of occurrences (which is just a fancrufty "in popular culture" list) in favor of the simple statements in the first paragraph: that Kitsune are portrayed in numerous works of theater and manga. What are others thoughts? Cheers! Scapler ( talk) 11:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
http://academia.issendai.com/foxtales/japan-lafcadio-hearn.shtml And on some part of the body of the possessed a moving lump appears under the skin, which seems to have a life of its own. Prick it with a needle, and it glides instantly to another place. By no grasp can it be so tightly compressed by a strong hand that it will not slip from under the fingers. Possessed folk are also said to speak and write languages of which they were totally ignorant prior to possession. They eat only what foxes are believed to like—tofu, aburage, [9] azukimeshi, [10] etc.—and they eat a great deal, alleging that not they, but the possessing foxes, are hungry.
The source for the oldest fox legend is given as Hamel 2003, p.89. [1]The text however, is from 1915 and does not provide a name for the respective "old legend of 545." I have never found a reference to such an old text in academic works. I assume that Hamel actually refers to the story in Nihon ryôiki (Miraculous stories of Japan), a collection of stories from the early 9th century (c.f. Nakamura 1997: 104-105). Wikipedia Japan, btw, also gives the Ryôiki as the oldest source of kitsune legends. The Ryôiki dates the story into the era of Kinmei Tennô (r. 539–571) and Ono is actually a place name, but otherwise Hamel's version is in essence a shortened version of the Ryôiki text. The end, however, is different: The fox woman reappears only once and finally vanishes for ever. This tragic highlight of the story is exemplified in a poem that became a constant element also in several later versions of the same story:
-- Bescheid ( talk) 20:17, 25 October 2011 (UTC) reformated with bibliographical additions Kiyoweap ( talk) 23:21, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
reappears only once and finally vanishes for ever) is correct, Bescheid.
References
Sorry to say, I'm not fully convinced by the new WPJ high rating. I agree that in Japan kitsune have significant coverage in folklore (after all there's enough to write a featured article on it!), my concern is that to be "high" the topic must have "had some impact outside Japan" which I'm not sure is the case. I think it would be a surprise to many that the fox is an important aspect of Japanese folklore, it doesn't epitomise Japan like the crane or the cherry blossom. Yes, there are examples of foxes in Japanese products which have been exported, but I would doubt that many would make the link between the products and kitsune. Please feel free to give me examples to convince me otherwise JTST4RS ( talk) 10:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Paragraph 3 of Kitsune § Shapeshifting reads:
The link for "Koan" is a disambiguation page, and it mentions only one individual, Emperor Kōan. From that article, § Legendary narrative:
The article mentions nothing about divination or foxes in any form. The reference is to a book that I have no access to. I'm removing the dab link, but of course not the reference. -- Thnidu ( talk) 17:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Sometimes things just "creep in" so would someone look at the "External links" section. It currently has 6 links and I would think some could be incorporated into the article or trimmed. Otr500 ( talk) 14:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
To the well-meaning editor who is editing this page because he or she doesn't like that math behind how kitsune get multiple tales: this is folklore. It may not make sense, but that's what it is. There's no "rule" that says every 100 years a kitsune magically sprouts a tale. Folklore can be contradictory and can be illogical. Please do not apply mathematical formulas to make uncited changes to this page. If you have a reliable source that specifically details the process in which kitsune grow their tales, feel free to cite it and make edits. But please do not edit the existing citations just because you don't like the math. Your edits will be reverted. Osarusan ( talk) 11:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
To be honest Kitsunes are the worlds intresting creatures it would be a please to have a pet kitsune - A.K — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.30.252.198 ( talk) 02:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
This is a 2006 Featured article that has not been maintained to FA standards:
Unless the article can be brought to FA standard, it should be submitted to Featured article review. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 01:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unsuccessful-wwii-plot-fight-japanese-radioactive-foxes-180975932/ about using foxes to demoralize the Japanese during WW2. 2001:56A:FA85:3800:C8CC:F2FB:E25A:C6A5 ( talk) 04:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps add a section or list with folk tales that contain kitsune in them? Bchene ( talk) 00:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Maybe a section with modern fiction could be added? Brandon Sanderson has a species of Kitsune in his Skyward fiction series, specifically 'Starsight' and 'Cytonic.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Californicus ( talk • contribs) 10:20, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kitsune article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Kitsune is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 15, 2007. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Although the statement "The victim is always a young woman, whom the fox enters beneath her fingernails or through her breasts" in the "Kitsunetsuki" section is cited to page 59 of Nozaki's Kitsune book, it's completely unsupported in the Scribd scan of the book itself at http://www.scribd.com/doc/3870634/Kitsune-Japans-Fox-of-Mystery-Romance-and-Humor-by-Kiyoshi-Nozaki . My computer is too sluggy right now for me to check some of the other refs within the book, but someone should really go in and verify more of the supposed citations. -- Wombat1138 ( talk) 02:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The section on Kitsune in fiction needs to be seriously reworked; perhaps it would be best to remove the simple list of occurrences (which is just a fancrufty "in popular culture" list) in favor of the simple statements in the first paragraph: that Kitsune are portrayed in numerous works of theater and manga. What are others thoughts? Cheers! Scapler ( talk) 11:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
http://academia.issendai.com/foxtales/japan-lafcadio-hearn.shtml And on some part of the body of the possessed a moving lump appears under the skin, which seems to have a life of its own. Prick it with a needle, and it glides instantly to another place. By no grasp can it be so tightly compressed by a strong hand that it will not slip from under the fingers. Possessed folk are also said to speak and write languages of which they were totally ignorant prior to possession. They eat only what foxes are believed to like—tofu, aburage, [9] azukimeshi, [10] etc.—and they eat a great deal, alleging that not they, but the possessing foxes, are hungry.
The source for the oldest fox legend is given as Hamel 2003, p.89. [1]The text however, is from 1915 and does not provide a name for the respective "old legend of 545." I have never found a reference to such an old text in academic works. I assume that Hamel actually refers to the story in Nihon ryôiki (Miraculous stories of Japan), a collection of stories from the early 9th century (c.f. Nakamura 1997: 104-105). Wikipedia Japan, btw, also gives the Ryôiki as the oldest source of kitsune legends. The Ryôiki dates the story into the era of Kinmei Tennô (r. 539–571) and Ono is actually a place name, but otherwise Hamel's version is in essence a shortened version of the Ryôiki text. The end, however, is different: The fox woman reappears only once and finally vanishes for ever. This tragic highlight of the story is exemplified in a poem that became a constant element also in several later versions of the same story:
-- Bescheid ( talk) 20:17, 25 October 2011 (UTC) reformated with bibliographical additions Kiyoweap ( talk) 23:21, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
reappears only once and finally vanishes for ever) is correct, Bescheid.
References
Sorry to say, I'm not fully convinced by the new WPJ high rating. I agree that in Japan kitsune have significant coverage in folklore (after all there's enough to write a featured article on it!), my concern is that to be "high" the topic must have "had some impact outside Japan" which I'm not sure is the case. I think it would be a surprise to many that the fox is an important aspect of Japanese folklore, it doesn't epitomise Japan like the crane or the cherry blossom. Yes, there are examples of foxes in Japanese products which have been exported, but I would doubt that many would make the link between the products and kitsune. Please feel free to give me examples to convince me otherwise JTST4RS ( talk) 10:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Paragraph 3 of Kitsune § Shapeshifting reads:
The link for "Koan" is a disambiguation page, and it mentions only one individual, Emperor Kōan. From that article, § Legendary narrative:
The article mentions nothing about divination or foxes in any form. The reference is to a book that I have no access to. I'm removing the dab link, but of course not the reference. -- Thnidu ( talk) 17:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Sometimes things just "creep in" so would someone look at the "External links" section. It currently has 6 links and I would think some could be incorporated into the article or trimmed. Otr500 ( talk) 14:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
To the well-meaning editor who is editing this page because he or she doesn't like that math behind how kitsune get multiple tales: this is folklore. It may not make sense, but that's what it is. There's no "rule" that says every 100 years a kitsune magically sprouts a tale. Folklore can be contradictory and can be illogical. Please do not apply mathematical formulas to make uncited changes to this page. If you have a reliable source that specifically details the process in which kitsune grow their tales, feel free to cite it and make edits. But please do not edit the existing citations just because you don't like the math. Your edits will be reverted. Osarusan ( talk) 11:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
To be honest Kitsunes are the worlds intresting creatures it would be a please to have a pet kitsune - A.K — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.30.252.198 ( talk) 02:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
This is a 2006 Featured article that has not been maintained to FA standards:
Unless the article can be brought to FA standard, it should be submitted to Featured article review. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 01:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unsuccessful-wwii-plot-fight-japanese-radioactive-foxes-180975932/ about using foxes to demoralize the Japanese during WW2. 2001:56A:FA85:3800:C8CC:F2FB:E25A:C6A5 ( talk) 04:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps add a section or list with folk tales that contain kitsune in them? Bchene ( talk) 00:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Maybe a section with modern fiction could be added? Brandon Sanderson has a species of Kitsune in his Skyward fiction series, specifically 'Starsight' and 'Cytonic.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Californicus ( talk • contribs) 10:20, 3 October 2022 (UTC)