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The Daily Mail is a major newspaper, and that particular article references court documents which have been reported on similarly by other major publications: of course it can be included as a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.244.103 ( talk) 06:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
This is getting bloated, and I am tempted to prune it back to The Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation, which is the main page. Thoughts?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:53, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Changed to: "Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier, science and education philanthropist, and a self-confessed paedophile." He is at least as widely known for pleading guilty to soliciting sex from a minor as for his philanthropic endeavours, so this introductory sentence seems to me to strike the best balance.
below is a reply to the above unsigned change, which appears to have later been reverted to "Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and sex offender".
I would like to suggest that the opening sentence be changed to simply read ""Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier, science and education philanthropist.", without any reference to his criminal conviction in this opening paragraph.
I suggest this for the following reasons:
1) It is uncommon for the opening sentence of an article describing any famous person to make reference to any criminal convictions, unless the person is famous only because of their conviction (for example, "John Dillinger was a bank robber"). The actor Tim Allen was convicted of drunk driving and cocaine offenses, this is not mentioned in his opening sentence. The entertainer Jay-Z has been convicted of stabbing, this is not mentioned in the opening sentence of his Wikipedia article. Similarly, the actor Christian Slater has been convicted of drunk driving, assault, possession of a firearm, and sexual assault, and this is not mentioned in the opening sentence of his Wikipedia entry. Heck, even the opening sentence for Adolf Hitler's bio in Wikipedia simply reads "Adolf Hitler was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the Nazi Party", and I think most people would agree that Hitler was a lot nastier a guy than Epstien or any of the other people I mentioned.
2) There is a full section within the main body of the article that describes his criminal convictions, what he did wrong, etc. in great detail.
I get the feeling that the reference to Epstien's conviction for soliciting prostitution (and, the later revision and reversion of that reference to 'self-confessed paedophile' as written above in this talk section) is the result of the effort of a very small number of people - or only one person, perhaps - who seeks to malign Mr. Epstien. Full disclosure: I did not know who Jeffrey Epstein was and had never heard of him until I came to this article today to find out who he was, this after reading a news article on BBC that mentioned him. 174.88.96.104 ( talk) 03:40, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Given the context, it seems a little absurd not to mention Epstein's conviction in the opening few sentences of his bio. He is considered a highly dangerous sex offender and, as others have pointed out, this is almost certainly what he is most widely known for. Perhaps the issue (such as it is) could be resolved by leaving the first sentence alone and simply adding another after it? If nobody objects I'm going to go ahead and do so. LumpyGoatmeal ( talk) 02:20, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
173.162.252.241 ( talk) 21:27, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
How could anyone teach anywhere in the world, let alone in New York City, without a college degree as late as 1975? That statement sounds very dubious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.146.105 ( talk) 20:07, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Of course you can teach without a degree! I went to Wimbledon College, London, UK, in 1975 and my maths teacher there not only didn't have a degree, but he had stopped studying maths at the age of 16, not 18, as he was only teaching pupils to the age of 16. There are no requirements even today in the UK for teachers in either private or state schools to have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Of course it is preferred that they do, but it is not a legal requirement. Very, very few maths teachers in the UK have a university degree in mathematics.
(Paul Murphy). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.171.127 ( talk) 15:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Is the Daily Mail a reliable source? If it is material from ‘Sex slave’ who claims she was forced to sleep with Prince Andrew was ‘promised to be looked after if she kept quiet’ should go into the article. If it isn't we should check if material from tha above article is repeated elsewhere. Proxima Centauri ( talk)#
Given the scandal's recently revived attention and the number of prominent individuals either directly or indirectly affected by the allegations, I suggest that this section be split off into a new article - Jeffrey Epstein Sex Scandal - with a basic summary left in this article. The section is only likely to be expanded in the coming weeks and months, and, if covered in sufficient depth, is likely to be undo weight (if it isn't already) if it remains here in the main Epstein article. Also, many people are likely coming here seeking info about the scandal, so it's best if they don't have to wade through a larger biographical article. - Helvetica ( talk) 18:39, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I was wondering why there is no mention of Jeffery Epstein's religion. Everybody know's Jeffery Epstein is Jewish. His Jewish heritage is a well know fact. & i can only assume you fail to include his Jewish heritage in the articles because it is just another example of racism, Bigotry & Jewish hatred. Covering up Epstein's religion & Jewish heritage is another example of Wikipedia's ethnic cleansing & Antisemitism.
Why else would Epstein's Jewish background be erased from the pages of Wikipedia.
It's Anti-Semitism. Plane & simple. ( So Racist ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.217.133.124 ( talk) 09:42, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Meh. He's Jewish if he says he's Jewish. Has he declared his Jewishness anywhere? If so, cite it. If not, drop it. Rklawton ( talk) 13:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
An editor just cited NY Mag as the basis for establishing Epstein's religion. The quote is this: "“It was all a little giddy,” Wolff says. “There’s a little food out, lovely hors d’oeuvre. And then after fifteen to twenty minutes, Jeffrey arrives. This guy comes onboard: He was my age, late forties, and he had a kind of Ralph Lauren look to him, a good-looking Jewish guy in casual attire." Folks, this simply isn't sufficient to establish an individual's faith. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. But I do care that each and every fact we include in our high profile biographical articles is reliable sourced. One guy describing Epstein's appearance falls woefully short. Rklawton ( talk) 01:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
The media are now referring to him by way of introduction as, "... the disgraced financier." I don't recall any media introductions lately that read, "... the financier and philanthropist". Point being, why are we giving his philanthropy higher billing than his other, apparently more notable activities? Rklawton ( talk) 13:02, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
The article is becoming top heavy with detail about the allegations made by Veronica Roberts. Unless and until these are proved in a court of law, they should be dealt with only briefly.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
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the dates dont match up... she would have only been 15 in 1999 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Majorheadrush ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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Epstein has been named as being in breach of building codes or construction permits (Planning Permission) during May 2019, but someone spotted ongoing work from their yacht. [1] Dunno why the article is locked up and he is not, so if a priveleged wikipedian could add that info, do. 126.209.22.197 ( talk) 15:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
References
https://www.courthousenews.com/court-orders-sunlight-on-huge-tranche-of-jeffrey-epstein-files/
Ruh-Roh! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.176.47 ( talk) 17:33, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
To add to article: who hired Epstein (who had no college degree) to teach at Manhattan's prestigious Dalton School? 173.88.241.33 ( talk) 00:27, 8 July 2019 (UTC)"Epstein was hired at the prestigious Manhattan college-prep institution by the father of Attorney General William Barr" from http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/how-did-jeffrey-epstein-make-his-fortune.html
This subsection of the Criminal Proceedings section contains clear redundancies, and otherwise needs expert attention to completely but succinctly summarise the content of relevant sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:246:C700:2DB2:9471:5D4C:6886:90D ( talk) 03:39, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Under the section "Virginia Roberts lawsuits" in this article, the statement "He trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz.", where "He" refers to Jeffrey Epstein and "her" to Virginia Roberts is made. Please notice there's no qualification of the claim as an allegation.
Under WP:BLP that statement ought to be changed to establish that it is not yet a fact determined in court, but an allegation made by Ms. Roberts in one of her lawsuits> "Virginia Roberts claims FBI has videos of her having underage sex with Jeffrey Epstein and 'powerful friends' by The Independent's Adam Withhall, the source cited inline to support it refers to the act in question as an allegation by Ms. Roberts, not a proven fact.
I'm changing this sentence to "Allegedly, Epstein trafficked Roberts to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz." first and soliciting consensus later under the guidelines in WP:BLP which require statements challenged or likely to be challenged to be supported by inline citation of a reliable published source. loupgarous ( talk) 21:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
How is it that the victim has a redirect here, to her attacker? She will take on added importance as her testimony on the new charges becomes apparent, and as there are now videos of her stating her account. Dogru144 ( talk) 19:31, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Wrong Chris Tucker, guys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.13.160.18 ( talk) 19:04, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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Remove reference to Trump - otherwise this site is a lie lie lie 2601:5CE:4300:15E3:895C:A256:26C0:D47D ( talk) 15:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The current version [5] states "Fox News reported he flew without Secret Service at least 5 times[75] although his press secretary disputed that in a July 8, 2019 statement the pilot's flight logs show at least 26 trips by Bill Clinton and each one with young girls .[76] " This run on sentence looks dubious. I don't plan on researching this at the moment, but I just wanted to flag it. Thanks. Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 20:54, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I am looking at this and this. Look like good RS which describe a lot in detail. In particular, it appears that "The Herald has since identified nearly 80 girls molested by Epstein, most of whom were listed only as “Jane Doe” in court documents to protect their identities as minors. Most were girls between the ages of 13 and 16 when they were targeted by Epstein as far back as 2001." ..."According to the Miami Herald, Acosta met privately with one of Epstein’s lawyers, Jay Lefkowitz — a former colleague in D.C. — and gave Epstein’s legal team a bizarre amount of control over the plea deal’s terms. (Other Epstein lawyers included Alan Dershowitz and Kenneth Starr.)" “Thank you for the commitment you made to me,’’ Lefkowitz wrote to Acosta after their meeting, referring to Acosta’s promise that he would not contact “any of the identified individuals, potential witnesses or potential civil claimants.” That needs to be included I think. My very best wishes ( talk) 01:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
soibangla ( talk) 22:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I found this article via an external link. The typical people outside of Wikipedia claiming a conspiracy to protect the powerful (vs the usual chaos we see with some politically active articles. I'm not at all interested in editing the page but you might be right about a temporary page lock to force editors to take it to talk. Just today you have reverted others at least 4 times. [ [6]] [ [7]] [ [8]] [ [9]] Springee ( talk) 02:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
User:Ianmacm seems to be engaged in problematic edits in connection with this article. Judging by this talk page, there appears to be consensus that the opening sentence "is an American financier" is inadequate, to put it mildly. Epstein is not primarily known as a financier; when he is mentioned in reliable sources it is usually in connection with his conviction for sexual offenses, for which he has served a prison sentence. When you google his name, all the first results are about the crimes he has been convicted of, not finance. His role in sex crimes is "why the person is notable" as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies; his background as a financier is of secondary importance. User:Ianmacm's comparison with Savile and other figures is flawed; Savile was of course an extremely well known celebrity independently of the sex crimes revelations, and he was unlike Epstein never convicted and sent to prison for it either.
The argument that it is covered in the lead section is also flawed; for instance, Google currently shows the following Wikipedia snippet about him when searching for his name: "Jeffrey Edward Epstein is an American financier. He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co".
That is hardly an adequate summary of the article, or even of the lead section. The opening sentence should stand on its own and establish why he is notable (what he is mostly known for). Currently both the bulk of the body of the article and even most of the lead section are devoted to sex crimes, not finance; like the lead section itself is supposed to be a summary of the article reflecting its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources (
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section), this is also true for the opening sentence. --
Tataral (
talk)
18:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Consensus relating to this particular article is primarily determined by discussion on this talk page. There appears to be significant support here to include it in the opening sentence. There also appears to be support in the old discussion on the noticeboard, for example TFD's suggested compromise "is an American financier and convicted sex offender"; the noticeboard discussion doesn't demonstrate that he is primarily known as a financier either, and the fact that the bulk of the article is about sex crimes and not finance attests to the fact that he is primarily known for that. The lead is supposed to reflect the content in the body. -- Tataral ( talk) 20:15, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Shouldn't it read "financier and convicted Pedofile", or does "financier pedofile and accused child rapist" sound better
68.173.128.206 (
talk)
14:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Why is this being changed to exclude the truth??? Once again the left is manipulating Wikipedia to influence the public...VERY SAD!!!!! Please look elsewhere for the truth because you won't find it on Wikipedia!!!!! Bunnsoffunn ( talk) 04:12, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
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Epstein flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker to Africa in his private jet. Flight records show Bill Clinton flew on Epstein’s plane 26 times 96.40.10.27 ( talk) 05:12, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
In September 2002, Epstein flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker to Africa in his private Boeing 727.[4][7]
Epstein is also a longtime friend of Prince Andrew, Duke of York, and has partied with celebrities such as Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos, Charlie Rose, and Woody Allen.[8]
Not sure how the above fit in the "Career" section. Personal section, perhaps? Avocats ( talk) 19:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
The link ref #71 that cites "Woody Allen" has no mention of Woody Allen in it.
2604:2000:14C5:8760:3DEA:9A36:BACC:1F3E (
talk)
15:14, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Can someone add this to the lede with an authoritative cite?. I would have assumed it was the standard, rhyming with "vine", but on a UK BBC Radio 4 report yesterday (which was the first i'd heard of this guy) it was pronounced to rhyme with "keen". The BBC used to be reliable on such matters, having a Pronunciation Unit (why no article, by the way?) that advised newsreaders etc. in advance of any difficult or unusual pronunciations. In this case they may have underestimated the inexperience of the newsreader in question, or perhaps the unit has been axed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 ( talk) 16:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
TYPO: Krischer is spelled "Kirchner" in "...asked Kirchner to remove himself from the case.[14] Can't fix this right now because the whole page is locked. There is no "Kirchner" it's a typo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerkey ( talk • contribs) 19:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
It has been reported that Epstein consulted with Clinton on creating the Clinton Global Initiative, established in 2005. Epstein has characterized himself as a co-founder of CGI, but he is not named in the founding documents.
logs do not show Clinton aboard any flights to St. Thomas [next to Epstein's island], the nearest airport capable of accommodating Epstein's plane. They do show Clinton flying aboard Epstein’s plane to such destinations as Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, China, Brunei, London, New York, the Azores, Belgium, Norway, Russia and Africa...trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets around the world
Logs show Clinton took 26 flights, he said he took four "trips," so evidently he made stops at the above locations (and maybe more that were not listed) during four "extended junkets around the world" to promote CGI. There is no indication any of these flights were sex junkets. Nor is there any indication Clinton and Epstein were "friends," rather they were collaborating on CGI. It's business.
Now we have a woman, Conchita Sarnoff, telling Fox News “Almost every time that Clinton's name is on the pilot logs there are underage girls there are initials and there are names of many many girls on that private plane.” In fact, the only female name cited in the logs is "Tatiana," who has not been further identified and there is no indication she was underage, or even in any way involved in sexual activities, but this has not stopped some from insinuating she was. Otherwise, passengers are identified only by their initials (many of which are recurring on many flights, suggesting they are flight crew). So how does Sarnoff purport to know simply by looking at initials that the passengers were underage girls, or even female? She can't possibly know that.
I smell a big fat smearjob. Yes, yet another one. soibangla ( talk) 01:46, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Noting that Clinton was a friend of Epsteinis not, in fact, solidly sourced. There is no evidence their relationship went anywhere beyond creating/promoting CGI. To assert otherwise is similar to asserting Mueller and Comey are "friends," when there is no evidence they were anything but professional acquaintances employed by the same organization. soibangla ( talk) 17:18, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Democrat Jackwabbit01 ( talk) 23:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The site opensecrets shows his large financial contributions to the party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:68B0:45D0:15F3:7002:A30A:6C3 ( talk) 10:37, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Time for a section or reference. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/alexander-acosta-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-235096 -- Wikipietime ( talk) 11:20, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
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Return American to Jewish.
As per the history of edits, you had no problem with it until recently when the news broke. This is blatant hiding of facts that would not be advisable should a media outlet get wind of it and could turn the public against wikipedia and further erode its credibility. Evaunit01berserk ( talk) 07:08, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Why is his religion mentioned in the first sentence? I checked the profile of many Christian billionaires and NONE of them have this format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C380:1030:BCA8:B98A:4AC3:2880 ( talk) 02:49, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
The "Science Philanthropy" section states "In May 2003, Epstein established the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics at Harvard University with a $30 million gift". However, this is a widely misquoted number. Epstein PLEDGED $30M to Harvard but only $6.5M was donated. The university does not appear to have accepted any further donations after his initial conviction. Info provide here:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/9/13/harvard-to-keep-epstein-gift-after/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/12/3/epstein-harvard-ties/
Thanks Viribex ( talk) 16:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
In the section Personal Life, the [ Fox article] used as a reference states "apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights". Note the qualifier "apparently"; even Fox would not definitely state that he flew without them. The Fox article goes on to say that there is contradictory evidence against the allegation (forms not filed). There are many reasons why they might not have been listed, including not enough space in the log entry, or their presence was taken for granted, or they were listed by initials as many people were.
The AP reference is sloppy: it turns 26 flights into 26 trips, when there were only four trips (as it later states). The AP article references the Fox article regarding the flights and presents no new reporting other than President Clinton's statement. It should be used as a reference for his statement only and the original Fox article reference should be moved back to the preceding sentence about the Secret Service and that changed to an "allegation" or "possibly" or eliminated.
The [ second second Fox article] used as a reference in the section restates the allegation about the Secret Service, referencing the first article and providing no new information on the point.
The twitter reference does not support the Fox claim.
The Wikipedia article should not state the allegation as a fact when the references are unwilling to do so. Please make this edit for me.
Evolutionary ( talk) 12:09, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
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Questionable source needs to be flagged. Change citation #75 to better source needed.
All information related to Epstein having been barred from Mar-a-Lago and suggestions that Donald Trump aided Brad Edwards is attributed to what appears to be an unreliable source of information. Dranomartini ( talk) 02:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
COMPLETELY UNTRUE. It's from the UK newspaper The Daily Mail. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7229027/President-Trump-banned-Jeffery-Epstein-Mar-Lago-sexually-assaulted-underage-girl.html
If I were you, I would be careful about making a claim that is so easy to debunk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.95.56 ( talk) 18:51, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
According to news reports dating to 2007, Trump’s Palm Beach resort Mar-a-Lago barred Epstein from the premises because of his unseemly pursuit of young females.
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An April 2011 court filing shows that Trump eventually barred Epstein from Mar-a-Lago “because Epstein sexually assaulted a girl at the club,” the documents allege.
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Emphasizing Epstein's connections to President Trump (who banned him, according to the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7229027/President-Trump-banned-Jeffery-Epstein-Mar-Lago-sexually-assaulted-underage-girl.html but eliminating his connections to President Clinton, who rode teh so-called "Lolita Express" (Epstein's plane as many as 26(!) times ( https://meaww.com/bill-clinton-flew-26-times-on-jeffrey-epstein-lolita-express-fitted-with-beds-orgy-island-jet-plane) ( https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/07/bill_clinton_frequent_flyer_on_jeffrey_epsteins_lolita_express.html) ( https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3589628/Report-Bill-Clinton-jumped-aboard-disgraced-sex-offender-Jeffrey-Epstein-s-Lolita-Express-plane-junkets-26-TIMES-just-three-years.html) and Hillary Clinton ( https://www.wnd.com/2016/11/source-fbi-has-evidence-hillary-visited-orgy-island/) and actor Kevin Spacey ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zulSO_p8Yi8) shows conclusively that whoever edits this article is NOT interested in a neutral point of view, but in using the Epstein case to promote one side politically and damage the other side politically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.95.56 ( talk) 18:44, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Something on Wikpedia's "black list" reported Wikipedia Editors Battle to Hide Bill Clinton’s Link to Jeffrey Epstein Fact that Clinton flew on ‘Lolita Express’ 26 times briefly removed
https://www.theepochtimes.com/bill-clinton-issues-statement-on-jeffrey-epsteins-case_2994646.html
What goes on? Foofbun ( talk) 04:06, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
"The current Wikipedia page for Epstein does mention his link to Clinton but devotes more words to the billionaire’s ties to Donald Trump, which were less direct. [they were? opinion.]
The current entry contains Trump’s 2002 quote about Epstein: “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
However, it fails to mention that Trump kicked Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago as soon as he discovered Epstein had hit on a young girl."[which is in there, with the important qualifier that the witness "but later conceded he was unable to confirm that"--the kind of thing that doesn't matter on Infowars.]
It's pretty sad that we have to respond to this kind of nonsense, and I suppose it's a good thing that this is blacklisted (I assume it is). Drmies ( talk) 12:54, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Is this perhaps a development worthy of mention within this article? StewBrewer ( talk) 14:47, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Re this edit: it is way out of line with WP:BLP to describe Epstein as a sex offender in the opening sentence without giving any context. Without his work as a financier and links to various famous people, the sex offence angle would not be notable enough for a mention. This is a WP:BLP article, ie a biography of Epstein, so it needs to say more than "he is a sex offender" in the opening sentence. This isn't a tabloid newspaper.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:50, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and registered sex offender. [1] He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co. In 2008 Epstein was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution and given an 18-month prison sentence, of which he served 13 months. [2] He is a registered level three sex offender. [3]
Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and registered sex offender. [1] He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co. In 2008 Epstein was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution and given an 18-month prison sentence, of which he served 13 months. [4]
He is a registered level three sex offender. [3]
References
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It is written that he was convicted of soliciting a 14-year-old girl for prostitution. While the original complaint was about a 14-year-old girl, the sweetheart deal he cut with Acosta convicted him of soliciting a 17-year-old girl (in one record 16-year-old). This was why he didn't have to register as a sex offender in New Mexico, where the age of consent is 16. Please refer to the New York Times article on the same subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Confuzd420 ( talk • contribs) 21:06, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
On July 10 (two days before he decided to resign), Alex Acosta held a press conference to discuss his involvement in the 2008 non-prosecution agreement. Acosta's narrative disagrees with the narratives covered on this page, in several ways. For example, Acosta says that (admittedly delayed) attempts were made to inform victims of the agreement. This conflicts with the current text, which says: The Miami Herald states: "Acosta agreed, despite a federal law to the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims." Would it be worth including a summary of the key points from Acosta's narrative? If so, I could draft such a summary. Mpb2 ( talk) 19:26, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
The statements about his brother are pointless. Where his brother attended school or what his brother does, unconnected to the subject, are irrelevant. Who cares about his brother? If it has nothing to do with the subject beyond being a relation, how is it relevant? Surely, you would not insert siblings' curriculum vitae in the early life section of anyone else. Did his brother come on here and edit the page in order to promote his business? -- Geekyroyalaficionado ( talk) 02:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
References
This pops up in the news a lot, but is not even MENTIONED in the article!
Which island does it refer to. Little St. James?
Should be included. 173.9.95.217 ( talk) 23:41, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Maybe good for something: Did Google Remove Photos of Bill Clinton with Jeffrey Epstein from Search Results? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 14:33, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
Apparently he was the local attorney and in fact longest serving member of Epsteins legal team through 2007-2008. 71.89.114.35 ( talk) 22:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Why "Ephebophilia" under the "See also" section? Ephebophilia is when older men prey on boys. Preying on young girls is parthenophilie.
-- 87.170.205.211 ( talk) 14:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, let's clutter the page with useless references to classic greece with academic non-sensical neologisms... Rabbi ( talk) 18:51, 15 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.4.91.218 ( talk)
In this edit I've removed "is Jewish and grew up in a Jewish household" and reinstated the simpler "to Jewish parents". Is there a distinction between "is Jewish" and "grew up in a Jewish household"? Yes. But is it an important distinction? Not in my opinion. The simpler version suffices. Bus stop ( talk) 21:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
I can post a literal picture of Clinton and Epstein at his private island with three other individuals with their shirts off, sitting in the water laughing with each other. Yet some blatantly obvious political activists with editing capabilities will pretend it's a "smear job" to suggest any link whatsoever, and that it was "just business" that Bill Clinton was such a close friend to Epstein. Unfortunately for them, the Clinton-Epstein connection is well-documented to the point of being undeniable as it appears in court documents:
"Former President Bill Clinton was a much more frequent flyer on a registered sex offender’s infamous jet than previously reported, with flight logs showing the former president taking at least 26 trips aboard the “Lolita Express” -- even apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights, according to records obtained by FoxNews.com."
I get that Fox often falls into the category of "I DON'T LIKE IT!!!" material for certain political activists disguised as Wikipedia editors, but court documents are court documents. As of right now, this article has 18 references to Trump and only 7 to Clinton, despite the fact Clinton had a decades-long relationship with Epstein that was certainly far more intimate and robust than Trump's. The effort to remove this information is, I posit, a coordinated effort from the top, and an attempt to manage reality in real-time. Epstein had enough friends to keep him out of federal prison in the past, so having people manage his Wikipedia article certainly doesn't seem out of the question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:343:8101:6f0:44c1:19e1:a418:2e44 ( talk)
Her remarks are nothing more than facts gleaned from the flight logs. The flight logs have been public for years, but no one has ever identified the individuals designated by initials. How does Sarnoff purport to know, simply by looking at initials, that the passengers are underage girls? Anyone can call themselves an "investigative journalist" and self-publish a book on Amazon, then appear as an alleged expert on Fox News by persuading a producer that they have something to say that is aligned with their narrative. Many people have faked their way to success in this manner. There is simply no evidence she is a reliable source, and Fox News is not "reporting" anything, they are simply and credulously repeating what she said on the air. soibangla ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
Do you think starting off with I can post a literal picture of Clinton and Epstein at his private island with three other individuals with their shirts off, sitting in the water laughing with each other
lends credence to anything else you said?
soibangla (
talk)
17:22, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
FYI to contributors: Stefan Molyneux (413,000 Twitter followers) is drawing attention to this article's “Early life” section. [13] I have no opinion on how it should read but it should be known that an attempt at WP:CANVASSing is going on, and recent edits should be seen in this light. Psiĥedelisto ( talk) 06:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
"I'm going to chalk this up to poor turn of phrase and not a personal attack". Now you say
"[y]ou may not have been, but the admin who replied to you (R2) obviously was". I think those are two quite different stances. And I happen to agree with your first expressed sentiment.
"[P]oor turn of phrase"says it well. Bus stop ( talk) 15:03, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
I didn't realize that Wikipedia had an article devoted to the topic of fake news. Please double bracket this term in the Jeffrey Epstein article so that a link to the article on fake news is created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.83.213 ( talk) 03:07, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
This statement appears to be an exaggeration: "Some of the photos were confirmed as those of underage females." According to the citation, a lawyer for one of the alleged victims says the picture is of her when she was underage. I don't think this qualifies as "confirmed." If the lawyer claimed his client slept with Epstein we wouldn't call that "confirmed." -- 73.151.157.60 ( talk) 18:04, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
According to investigative journalist Vickie Ward, who has been covering the Epstein case since 2002, Alexander Acosta, the than U.S. attorney who cut Epstein a sweetheart deal back in 2007, did so because he had "been told" to back off. "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to leave it alone," he reportedly claimed.
-- 93.211.215.111 ( talk) 06:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
In 1995 Jeffery Epstein was member of the [15]: [16] Redacted ( talk) 19:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.31.90.26 ( talk)
-- 87.170.194.205 ( talk) 17:29, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
For all interessed in the technical and personal continuity → great read → Whitney Webb: Hidden in Plain Sight: The Shocking Origins of the Jeffrey Epstein Case - Epstein is only the latest incarnation of a much older, more extensive and sophisticated operation that offers a frightening window into how deeply tied the U.S. government is to the modern-day equivalents of organized crime.: Quote: " ... Samuel Bronfman’s children and grandchildren, their family’s ties to the criminal underworld intact, would later go on to associate closely with Leslie Wexner, allegedly the source of much of Epstein’s mysterious wealth, and other mob-linked “philanthropists”..."
In the US alone, the CIA operated numerous sexual blackmail operations throughout the country, employing prostitutes to target foreign diplomats in what the Washington Post once nicknamed the CIA’s “love traps.” If one goes even farther back into the US historical record it becomes apparent that these tactics and their use against powerful political and influential figures significantly predate the CIA and even its precursor, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). In fact, they were pioneered years earlier by none other than the American mafia.
Connect the dots from Samuel Bronfman, Lewis Rosenstiel (connected to both the FBI and to Organized Crime), Charles “Lucky” Luciano, Meyer Lansky to J. Edgar Hoover, Roy Cohn & Plaza Hotel & Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan and wife Nancy, William Casey, Bill Barr, Elliott Abrams, Cohn’s network extends to Bill Clinton, whose friend and longtime political advisor, Richard “Dirty Dick” Morris, was Cohn’s cousin and close associate. Part II to come. -- 87.170.195.145 ( talk) 12:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
English language sources are readily accessible online supporting that Jeffrey Epstein is Jewish therefore I don't think it is necessary to include in a citation the quote that "Epstein, a Jewish politically well-connected billionaire, has been charged with sex trafficking". [17] I find at WP:CITE "Quotes are also useful if the source is not easily accessible...In the case of non-English sources, it may be helpful to quote from the original text and then give an English translation." Additionally I don't think any source disputes that Jeffrey Epstein is Jewish. Bus stop ( talk) 15:58, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
@Bus stop, this is an article about Jeffrey Epstein. The sources about Epstein say he is "Jewish" and an "American Jewish" business man, so the sources don't omit it. Even though you reverted this wikipedia article several times to the opposite the sources still don't seem to pick up your personal wishes. There are no sources for your private theories which seem to have the logic base that Epstein's Jewishness had no effect on his behavior in life and his criminality.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 00:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
I suggest to add a paragraph about both Bill Clinton & Donald Trump claims that they never went to Epstein Island. How about the draft sentence below? I tried to include both point of views (POV), with their respective sources & quotes.
Sources
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---|
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Francewhoa ( talk) 08:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
He was found injured in a ny cell and rushed to hospital — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.167.109.254 ( talk) 14:53, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
The amount of material covering Trump's supposed connection to Epstein is completely disproportionate to the material covering leftist connections to Epstein. Fix it. 2601:644:877F:F6D8:D5EA:30C6:8CF:FA72 ( talk) 18:18, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
"leftist connections to Epstein", and what sources support it? You say
"Fix it."Is that a command? Bus stop ( talk) 18:39, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
The Daily Mail is a major newspaper, and that particular article references court documents which have been reported on similarly by other major publications: of course it can be included as a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.244.103 ( talk) 06:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
This is getting bloated, and I am tempted to prune it back to The Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation, which is the main page. Thoughts?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:53, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Changed to: "Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier, science and education philanthropist, and a self-confessed paedophile." He is at least as widely known for pleading guilty to soliciting sex from a minor as for his philanthropic endeavours, so this introductory sentence seems to me to strike the best balance.
below is a reply to the above unsigned change, which appears to have later been reverted to "Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and sex offender".
I would like to suggest that the opening sentence be changed to simply read ""Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier, science and education philanthropist.", without any reference to his criminal conviction in this opening paragraph.
I suggest this for the following reasons:
1) It is uncommon for the opening sentence of an article describing any famous person to make reference to any criminal convictions, unless the person is famous only because of their conviction (for example, "John Dillinger was a bank robber"). The actor Tim Allen was convicted of drunk driving and cocaine offenses, this is not mentioned in his opening sentence. The entertainer Jay-Z has been convicted of stabbing, this is not mentioned in the opening sentence of his Wikipedia article. Similarly, the actor Christian Slater has been convicted of drunk driving, assault, possession of a firearm, and sexual assault, and this is not mentioned in the opening sentence of his Wikipedia entry. Heck, even the opening sentence for Adolf Hitler's bio in Wikipedia simply reads "Adolf Hitler was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the Nazi Party", and I think most people would agree that Hitler was a lot nastier a guy than Epstien or any of the other people I mentioned.
2) There is a full section within the main body of the article that describes his criminal convictions, what he did wrong, etc. in great detail.
I get the feeling that the reference to Epstien's conviction for soliciting prostitution (and, the later revision and reversion of that reference to 'self-confessed paedophile' as written above in this talk section) is the result of the effort of a very small number of people - or only one person, perhaps - who seeks to malign Mr. Epstien. Full disclosure: I did not know who Jeffrey Epstein was and had never heard of him until I came to this article today to find out who he was, this after reading a news article on BBC that mentioned him. 174.88.96.104 ( talk) 03:40, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Given the context, it seems a little absurd not to mention Epstein's conviction in the opening few sentences of his bio. He is considered a highly dangerous sex offender and, as others have pointed out, this is almost certainly what he is most widely known for. Perhaps the issue (such as it is) could be resolved by leaving the first sentence alone and simply adding another after it? If nobody objects I'm going to go ahead and do so. LumpyGoatmeal ( talk) 02:20, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
173.162.252.241 ( talk) 21:27, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
How could anyone teach anywhere in the world, let alone in New York City, without a college degree as late as 1975? That statement sounds very dubious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.146.105 ( talk) 20:07, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Of course you can teach without a degree! I went to Wimbledon College, London, UK, in 1975 and my maths teacher there not only didn't have a degree, but he had stopped studying maths at the age of 16, not 18, as he was only teaching pupils to the age of 16. There are no requirements even today in the UK for teachers in either private or state schools to have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Of course it is preferred that they do, but it is not a legal requirement. Very, very few maths teachers in the UK have a university degree in mathematics.
(Paul Murphy). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.171.127 ( talk) 15:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Is the Daily Mail a reliable source? If it is material from ‘Sex slave’ who claims she was forced to sleep with Prince Andrew was ‘promised to be looked after if she kept quiet’ should go into the article. If it isn't we should check if material from tha above article is repeated elsewhere. Proxima Centauri ( talk)#
Given the scandal's recently revived attention and the number of prominent individuals either directly or indirectly affected by the allegations, I suggest that this section be split off into a new article - Jeffrey Epstein Sex Scandal - with a basic summary left in this article. The section is only likely to be expanded in the coming weeks and months, and, if covered in sufficient depth, is likely to be undo weight (if it isn't already) if it remains here in the main Epstein article. Also, many people are likely coming here seeking info about the scandal, so it's best if they don't have to wade through a larger biographical article. - Helvetica ( talk) 18:39, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I was wondering why there is no mention of Jeffery Epstein's religion. Everybody know's Jeffery Epstein is Jewish. His Jewish heritage is a well know fact. & i can only assume you fail to include his Jewish heritage in the articles because it is just another example of racism, Bigotry & Jewish hatred. Covering up Epstein's religion & Jewish heritage is another example of Wikipedia's ethnic cleansing & Antisemitism.
Why else would Epstein's Jewish background be erased from the pages of Wikipedia.
It's Anti-Semitism. Plane & simple. ( So Racist ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.217.133.124 ( talk) 09:42, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Meh. He's Jewish if he says he's Jewish. Has he declared his Jewishness anywhere? If so, cite it. If not, drop it. Rklawton ( talk) 13:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
An editor just cited NY Mag as the basis for establishing Epstein's religion. The quote is this: "“It was all a little giddy,” Wolff says. “There’s a little food out, lovely hors d’oeuvre. And then after fifteen to twenty minutes, Jeffrey arrives. This guy comes onboard: He was my age, late forties, and he had a kind of Ralph Lauren look to him, a good-looking Jewish guy in casual attire." Folks, this simply isn't sufficient to establish an individual's faith. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. But I do care that each and every fact we include in our high profile biographical articles is reliable sourced. One guy describing Epstein's appearance falls woefully short. Rklawton ( talk) 01:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
The media are now referring to him by way of introduction as, "... the disgraced financier." I don't recall any media introductions lately that read, "... the financier and philanthropist". Point being, why are we giving his philanthropy higher billing than his other, apparently more notable activities? Rklawton ( talk) 13:02, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
The article is becoming top heavy with detail about the allegations made by Veronica Roberts. Unless and until these are proved in a court of law, they should be dealt with only briefly.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
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the dates dont match up... she would have only been 15 in 1999 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Majorheadrush ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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Epstein has been named as being in breach of building codes or construction permits (Planning Permission) during May 2019, but someone spotted ongoing work from their yacht. [1] Dunno why the article is locked up and he is not, so if a priveleged wikipedian could add that info, do. 126.209.22.197 ( talk) 15:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
References
https://www.courthousenews.com/court-orders-sunlight-on-huge-tranche-of-jeffrey-epstein-files/
Ruh-Roh! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.176.47 ( talk) 17:33, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
To add to article: who hired Epstein (who had no college degree) to teach at Manhattan's prestigious Dalton School? 173.88.241.33 ( talk) 00:27, 8 July 2019 (UTC)"Epstein was hired at the prestigious Manhattan college-prep institution by the father of Attorney General William Barr" from http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/how-did-jeffrey-epstein-make-his-fortune.html
This subsection of the Criminal Proceedings section contains clear redundancies, and otherwise needs expert attention to completely but succinctly summarise the content of relevant sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:246:C700:2DB2:9471:5D4C:6886:90D ( talk) 03:39, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Under the section "Virginia Roberts lawsuits" in this article, the statement "He trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz.", where "He" refers to Jeffrey Epstein and "her" to Virginia Roberts is made. Please notice there's no qualification of the claim as an allegation.
Under WP:BLP that statement ought to be changed to establish that it is not yet a fact determined in court, but an allegation made by Ms. Roberts in one of her lawsuits> "Virginia Roberts claims FBI has videos of her having underage sex with Jeffrey Epstein and 'powerful friends' by The Independent's Adam Withhall, the source cited inline to support it refers to the act in question as an allegation by Ms. Roberts, not a proven fact.
I'm changing this sentence to "Allegedly, Epstein trafficked Roberts to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz." first and soliciting consensus later under the guidelines in WP:BLP which require statements challenged or likely to be challenged to be supported by inline citation of a reliable published source. loupgarous ( talk) 21:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
How is it that the victim has a redirect here, to her attacker? She will take on added importance as her testimony on the new charges becomes apparent, and as there are now videos of her stating her account. Dogru144 ( talk) 19:31, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Wrong Chris Tucker, guys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.13.160.18 ( talk) 19:04, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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Remove reference to Trump - otherwise this site is a lie lie lie 2601:5CE:4300:15E3:895C:A256:26C0:D47D ( talk) 15:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The current version [5] states "Fox News reported he flew without Secret Service at least 5 times[75] although his press secretary disputed that in a July 8, 2019 statement the pilot's flight logs show at least 26 trips by Bill Clinton and each one with young girls .[76] " This run on sentence looks dubious. I don't plan on researching this at the moment, but I just wanted to flag it. Thanks. Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 20:54, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I am looking at this and this. Look like good RS which describe a lot in detail. In particular, it appears that "The Herald has since identified nearly 80 girls molested by Epstein, most of whom were listed only as “Jane Doe” in court documents to protect their identities as minors. Most were girls between the ages of 13 and 16 when they were targeted by Epstein as far back as 2001." ..."According to the Miami Herald, Acosta met privately with one of Epstein’s lawyers, Jay Lefkowitz — a former colleague in D.C. — and gave Epstein’s legal team a bizarre amount of control over the plea deal’s terms. (Other Epstein lawyers included Alan Dershowitz and Kenneth Starr.)" “Thank you for the commitment you made to me,’’ Lefkowitz wrote to Acosta after their meeting, referring to Acosta’s promise that he would not contact “any of the identified individuals, potential witnesses or potential civil claimants.” That needs to be included I think. My very best wishes ( talk) 01:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
soibangla ( talk) 22:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I found this article via an external link. The typical people outside of Wikipedia claiming a conspiracy to protect the powerful (vs the usual chaos we see with some politically active articles. I'm not at all interested in editing the page but you might be right about a temporary page lock to force editors to take it to talk. Just today you have reverted others at least 4 times. [ [6]] [ [7]] [ [8]] [ [9]] Springee ( talk) 02:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
User:Ianmacm seems to be engaged in problematic edits in connection with this article. Judging by this talk page, there appears to be consensus that the opening sentence "is an American financier" is inadequate, to put it mildly. Epstein is not primarily known as a financier; when he is mentioned in reliable sources it is usually in connection with his conviction for sexual offenses, for which he has served a prison sentence. When you google his name, all the first results are about the crimes he has been convicted of, not finance. His role in sex crimes is "why the person is notable" as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies; his background as a financier is of secondary importance. User:Ianmacm's comparison with Savile and other figures is flawed; Savile was of course an extremely well known celebrity independently of the sex crimes revelations, and he was unlike Epstein never convicted and sent to prison for it either.
The argument that it is covered in the lead section is also flawed; for instance, Google currently shows the following Wikipedia snippet about him when searching for his name: "Jeffrey Edward Epstein is an American financier. He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co".
That is hardly an adequate summary of the article, or even of the lead section. The opening sentence should stand on its own and establish why he is notable (what he is mostly known for). Currently both the bulk of the body of the article and even most of the lead section are devoted to sex crimes, not finance; like the lead section itself is supposed to be a summary of the article reflecting its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources (
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section), this is also true for the opening sentence. --
Tataral (
talk)
18:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Consensus relating to this particular article is primarily determined by discussion on this talk page. There appears to be significant support here to include it in the opening sentence. There also appears to be support in the old discussion on the noticeboard, for example TFD's suggested compromise "is an American financier and convicted sex offender"; the noticeboard discussion doesn't demonstrate that he is primarily known as a financier either, and the fact that the bulk of the article is about sex crimes and not finance attests to the fact that he is primarily known for that. The lead is supposed to reflect the content in the body. -- Tataral ( talk) 20:15, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Shouldn't it read "financier and convicted Pedofile", or does "financier pedofile and accused child rapist" sound better
68.173.128.206 (
talk)
14:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Why is this being changed to exclude the truth??? Once again the left is manipulating Wikipedia to influence the public...VERY SAD!!!!! Please look elsewhere for the truth because you won't find it on Wikipedia!!!!! Bunnsoffunn ( talk) 04:12, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
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Epstein flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker to Africa in his private jet. Flight records show Bill Clinton flew on Epstein’s plane 26 times 96.40.10.27 ( talk) 05:12, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
In September 2002, Epstein flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker to Africa in his private Boeing 727.[4][7]
Epstein is also a longtime friend of Prince Andrew, Duke of York, and has partied with celebrities such as Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos, Charlie Rose, and Woody Allen.[8]
Not sure how the above fit in the "Career" section. Personal section, perhaps? Avocats ( talk) 19:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
The link ref #71 that cites "Woody Allen" has no mention of Woody Allen in it.
2604:2000:14C5:8760:3DEA:9A36:BACC:1F3E (
talk)
15:14, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Can someone add this to the lede with an authoritative cite?. I would have assumed it was the standard, rhyming with "vine", but on a UK BBC Radio 4 report yesterday (which was the first i'd heard of this guy) it was pronounced to rhyme with "keen". The BBC used to be reliable on such matters, having a Pronunciation Unit (why no article, by the way?) that advised newsreaders etc. in advance of any difficult or unusual pronunciations. In this case they may have underestimated the inexperience of the newsreader in question, or perhaps the unit has been axed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 ( talk) 16:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
TYPO: Krischer is spelled "Kirchner" in "...asked Kirchner to remove himself from the case.[14] Can't fix this right now because the whole page is locked. There is no "Kirchner" it's a typo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerkey ( talk • contribs) 19:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
It has been reported that Epstein consulted with Clinton on creating the Clinton Global Initiative, established in 2005. Epstein has characterized himself as a co-founder of CGI, but he is not named in the founding documents.
logs do not show Clinton aboard any flights to St. Thomas [next to Epstein's island], the nearest airport capable of accommodating Epstein's plane. They do show Clinton flying aboard Epstein’s plane to such destinations as Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, China, Brunei, London, New York, the Azores, Belgium, Norway, Russia and Africa...trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets around the world
Logs show Clinton took 26 flights, he said he took four "trips," so evidently he made stops at the above locations (and maybe more that were not listed) during four "extended junkets around the world" to promote CGI. There is no indication any of these flights were sex junkets. Nor is there any indication Clinton and Epstein were "friends," rather they were collaborating on CGI. It's business.
Now we have a woman, Conchita Sarnoff, telling Fox News “Almost every time that Clinton's name is on the pilot logs there are underage girls there are initials and there are names of many many girls on that private plane.” In fact, the only female name cited in the logs is "Tatiana," who has not been further identified and there is no indication she was underage, or even in any way involved in sexual activities, but this has not stopped some from insinuating she was. Otherwise, passengers are identified only by their initials (many of which are recurring on many flights, suggesting they are flight crew). So how does Sarnoff purport to know simply by looking at initials that the passengers were underage girls, or even female? She can't possibly know that.
I smell a big fat smearjob. Yes, yet another one. soibangla ( talk) 01:46, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Noting that Clinton was a friend of Epsteinis not, in fact, solidly sourced. There is no evidence their relationship went anywhere beyond creating/promoting CGI. To assert otherwise is similar to asserting Mueller and Comey are "friends," when there is no evidence they were anything but professional acquaintances employed by the same organization. soibangla ( talk) 17:18, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Democrat Jackwabbit01 ( talk) 23:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The site opensecrets shows his large financial contributions to the party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:68B0:45D0:15F3:7002:A30A:6C3 ( talk) 10:37, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Time for a section or reference. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/alexander-acosta-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-235096 -- Wikipietime ( talk) 11:20, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
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Return American to Jewish.
As per the history of edits, you had no problem with it until recently when the news broke. This is blatant hiding of facts that would not be advisable should a media outlet get wind of it and could turn the public against wikipedia and further erode its credibility. Evaunit01berserk ( talk) 07:08, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Why is his religion mentioned in the first sentence? I checked the profile of many Christian billionaires and NONE of them have this format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C380:1030:BCA8:B98A:4AC3:2880 ( talk) 02:49, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
The "Science Philanthropy" section states "In May 2003, Epstein established the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics at Harvard University with a $30 million gift". However, this is a widely misquoted number. Epstein PLEDGED $30M to Harvard but only $6.5M was donated. The university does not appear to have accepted any further donations after his initial conviction. Info provide here:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/9/13/harvard-to-keep-epstein-gift-after/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/12/3/epstein-harvard-ties/
Thanks Viribex ( talk) 16:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
In the section Personal Life, the [ Fox article] used as a reference states "apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights". Note the qualifier "apparently"; even Fox would not definitely state that he flew without them. The Fox article goes on to say that there is contradictory evidence against the allegation (forms not filed). There are many reasons why they might not have been listed, including not enough space in the log entry, or their presence was taken for granted, or they were listed by initials as many people were.
The AP reference is sloppy: it turns 26 flights into 26 trips, when there were only four trips (as it later states). The AP article references the Fox article regarding the flights and presents no new reporting other than President Clinton's statement. It should be used as a reference for his statement only and the original Fox article reference should be moved back to the preceding sentence about the Secret Service and that changed to an "allegation" or "possibly" or eliminated.
The [ second second Fox article] used as a reference in the section restates the allegation about the Secret Service, referencing the first article and providing no new information on the point.
The twitter reference does not support the Fox claim.
The Wikipedia article should not state the allegation as a fact when the references are unwilling to do so. Please make this edit for me.
Evolutionary ( talk) 12:09, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
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Questionable source needs to be flagged. Change citation #75 to better source needed.
All information related to Epstein having been barred from Mar-a-Lago and suggestions that Donald Trump aided Brad Edwards is attributed to what appears to be an unreliable source of information. Dranomartini ( talk) 02:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
COMPLETELY UNTRUE. It's from the UK newspaper The Daily Mail. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7229027/President-Trump-banned-Jeffery-Epstein-Mar-Lago-sexually-assaulted-underage-girl.html
If I were you, I would be careful about making a claim that is so easy to debunk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.95.56 ( talk) 18:51, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
According to news reports dating to 2007, Trump’s Palm Beach resort Mar-a-Lago barred Epstein from the premises because of his unseemly pursuit of young females.
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An April 2011 court filing shows that Trump eventually barred Epstein from Mar-a-Lago “because Epstein sexually assaulted a girl at the club,” the documents allege.
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Emphasizing Epstein's connections to President Trump (who banned him, according to the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7229027/President-Trump-banned-Jeffery-Epstein-Mar-Lago-sexually-assaulted-underage-girl.html but eliminating his connections to President Clinton, who rode teh so-called "Lolita Express" (Epstein's plane as many as 26(!) times ( https://meaww.com/bill-clinton-flew-26-times-on-jeffrey-epstein-lolita-express-fitted-with-beds-orgy-island-jet-plane) ( https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/07/bill_clinton_frequent_flyer_on_jeffrey_epsteins_lolita_express.html) ( https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3589628/Report-Bill-Clinton-jumped-aboard-disgraced-sex-offender-Jeffrey-Epstein-s-Lolita-Express-plane-junkets-26-TIMES-just-three-years.html) and Hillary Clinton ( https://www.wnd.com/2016/11/source-fbi-has-evidence-hillary-visited-orgy-island/) and actor Kevin Spacey ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zulSO_p8Yi8) shows conclusively that whoever edits this article is NOT interested in a neutral point of view, but in using the Epstein case to promote one side politically and damage the other side politically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.95.56 ( talk) 18:44, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Something on Wikpedia's "black list" reported Wikipedia Editors Battle to Hide Bill Clinton’s Link to Jeffrey Epstein Fact that Clinton flew on ‘Lolita Express’ 26 times briefly removed
https://www.theepochtimes.com/bill-clinton-issues-statement-on-jeffrey-epsteins-case_2994646.html
What goes on? Foofbun ( talk) 04:06, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
"The current Wikipedia page for Epstein does mention his link to Clinton but devotes more words to the billionaire’s ties to Donald Trump, which were less direct. [they were? opinion.]
The current entry contains Trump’s 2002 quote about Epstein: “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
However, it fails to mention that Trump kicked Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago as soon as he discovered Epstein had hit on a young girl."[which is in there, with the important qualifier that the witness "but later conceded he was unable to confirm that"--the kind of thing that doesn't matter on Infowars.]
It's pretty sad that we have to respond to this kind of nonsense, and I suppose it's a good thing that this is blacklisted (I assume it is). Drmies ( talk) 12:54, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Is this perhaps a development worthy of mention within this article? StewBrewer ( talk) 14:47, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Re this edit: it is way out of line with WP:BLP to describe Epstein as a sex offender in the opening sentence without giving any context. Without his work as a financier and links to various famous people, the sex offence angle would not be notable enough for a mention. This is a WP:BLP article, ie a biography of Epstein, so it needs to say more than "he is a sex offender" in the opening sentence. This isn't a tabloid newspaper.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:50, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and registered sex offender. [1] He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co. In 2008 Epstein was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution and given an 18-month prison sentence, of which he served 13 months. [2] He is a registered level three sex offender. [3]
Jeffrey Edward Epstein (born January 20, 1953) is an American financier and registered sex offender. [1] He worked at Bear Stearns early in his career and subsequently formed his own firm, J. Epstein & Co. In 2008 Epstein was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution and given an 18-month prison sentence, of which he served 13 months. [4]
He is a registered level three sex offender. [3]
References
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It is written that he was convicted of soliciting a 14-year-old girl for prostitution. While the original complaint was about a 14-year-old girl, the sweetheart deal he cut with Acosta convicted him of soliciting a 17-year-old girl (in one record 16-year-old). This was why he didn't have to register as a sex offender in New Mexico, where the age of consent is 16. Please refer to the New York Times article on the same subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Confuzd420 ( talk • contribs) 21:06, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
On July 10 (two days before he decided to resign), Alex Acosta held a press conference to discuss his involvement in the 2008 non-prosecution agreement. Acosta's narrative disagrees with the narratives covered on this page, in several ways. For example, Acosta says that (admittedly delayed) attempts were made to inform victims of the agreement. This conflicts with the current text, which says: The Miami Herald states: "Acosta agreed, despite a federal law to the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims." Would it be worth including a summary of the key points from Acosta's narrative? If so, I could draft such a summary. Mpb2 ( talk) 19:26, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
The statements about his brother are pointless. Where his brother attended school or what his brother does, unconnected to the subject, are irrelevant. Who cares about his brother? If it has nothing to do with the subject beyond being a relation, how is it relevant? Surely, you would not insert siblings' curriculum vitae in the early life section of anyone else. Did his brother come on here and edit the page in order to promote his business? -- Geekyroyalaficionado ( talk) 02:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
References
This pops up in the news a lot, but is not even MENTIONED in the article!
Which island does it refer to. Little St. James?
Should be included. 173.9.95.217 ( talk) 23:41, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Maybe good for something: Did Google Remove Photos of Bill Clinton with Jeffrey Epstein from Search Results? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 14:33, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
Apparently he was the local attorney and in fact longest serving member of Epsteins legal team through 2007-2008. 71.89.114.35 ( talk) 22:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Why "Ephebophilia" under the "See also" section? Ephebophilia is when older men prey on boys. Preying on young girls is parthenophilie.
-- 87.170.205.211 ( talk) 14:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, let's clutter the page with useless references to classic greece with academic non-sensical neologisms... Rabbi ( talk) 18:51, 15 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.4.91.218 ( talk)
In this edit I've removed "is Jewish and grew up in a Jewish household" and reinstated the simpler "to Jewish parents". Is there a distinction between "is Jewish" and "grew up in a Jewish household"? Yes. But is it an important distinction? Not in my opinion. The simpler version suffices. Bus stop ( talk) 21:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
I can post a literal picture of Clinton and Epstein at his private island with three other individuals with their shirts off, sitting in the water laughing with each other. Yet some blatantly obvious political activists with editing capabilities will pretend it's a "smear job" to suggest any link whatsoever, and that it was "just business" that Bill Clinton was such a close friend to Epstein. Unfortunately for them, the Clinton-Epstein connection is well-documented to the point of being undeniable as it appears in court documents:
"Former President Bill Clinton was a much more frequent flyer on a registered sex offender’s infamous jet than previously reported, with flight logs showing the former president taking at least 26 trips aboard the “Lolita Express” -- even apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights, according to records obtained by FoxNews.com."
I get that Fox often falls into the category of "I DON'T LIKE IT!!!" material for certain political activists disguised as Wikipedia editors, but court documents are court documents. As of right now, this article has 18 references to Trump and only 7 to Clinton, despite the fact Clinton had a decades-long relationship with Epstein that was certainly far more intimate and robust than Trump's. The effort to remove this information is, I posit, a coordinated effort from the top, and an attempt to manage reality in real-time. Epstein had enough friends to keep him out of federal prison in the past, so having people manage his Wikipedia article certainly doesn't seem out of the question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:343:8101:6f0:44c1:19e1:a418:2e44 ( talk)
Her remarks are nothing more than facts gleaned from the flight logs. The flight logs have been public for years, but no one has ever identified the individuals designated by initials. How does Sarnoff purport to know, simply by looking at initials, that the passengers are underage girls? Anyone can call themselves an "investigative journalist" and self-publish a book on Amazon, then appear as an alleged expert on Fox News by persuading a producer that they have something to say that is aligned with their narrative. Many people have faked their way to success in this manner. There is simply no evidence she is a reliable source, and Fox News is not "reporting" anything, they are simply and credulously repeating what she said on the air. soibangla ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
Do you think starting off with I can post a literal picture of Clinton and Epstein at his private island with three other individuals with their shirts off, sitting in the water laughing with each other
lends credence to anything else you said?
soibangla (
talk)
17:22, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
FYI to contributors: Stefan Molyneux (413,000 Twitter followers) is drawing attention to this article's “Early life” section. [13] I have no opinion on how it should read but it should be known that an attempt at WP:CANVASSing is going on, and recent edits should be seen in this light. Psiĥedelisto ( talk) 06:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
"I'm going to chalk this up to poor turn of phrase and not a personal attack". Now you say
"[y]ou may not have been, but the admin who replied to you (R2) obviously was". I think those are two quite different stances. And I happen to agree with your first expressed sentiment.
"[P]oor turn of phrase"says it well. Bus stop ( talk) 15:03, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
I didn't realize that Wikipedia had an article devoted to the topic of fake news. Please double bracket this term in the Jeffrey Epstein article so that a link to the article on fake news is created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.83.213 ( talk) 03:07, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
This statement appears to be an exaggeration: "Some of the photos were confirmed as those of underage females." According to the citation, a lawyer for one of the alleged victims says the picture is of her when she was underage. I don't think this qualifies as "confirmed." If the lawyer claimed his client slept with Epstein we wouldn't call that "confirmed." -- 73.151.157.60 ( talk) 18:04, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
According to investigative journalist Vickie Ward, who has been covering the Epstein case since 2002, Alexander Acosta, the than U.S. attorney who cut Epstein a sweetheart deal back in 2007, did so because he had "been told" to back off. "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to leave it alone," he reportedly claimed.
-- 93.211.215.111 ( talk) 06:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
In 1995 Jeffery Epstein was member of the [15]: [16] Redacted ( talk) 19:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.31.90.26 ( talk)
-- 87.170.194.205 ( talk) 17:29, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
For all interessed in the technical and personal continuity → great read → Whitney Webb: Hidden in Plain Sight: The Shocking Origins of the Jeffrey Epstein Case - Epstein is only the latest incarnation of a much older, more extensive and sophisticated operation that offers a frightening window into how deeply tied the U.S. government is to the modern-day equivalents of organized crime.: Quote: " ... Samuel Bronfman’s children and grandchildren, their family’s ties to the criminal underworld intact, would later go on to associate closely with Leslie Wexner, allegedly the source of much of Epstein’s mysterious wealth, and other mob-linked “philanthropists”..."
In the US alone, the CIA operated numerous sexual blackmail operations throughout the country, employing prostitutes to target foreign diplomats in what the Washington Post once nicknamed the CIA’s “love traps.” If one goes even farther back into the US historical record it becomes apparent that these tactics and their use against powerful political and influential figures significantly predate the CIA and even its precursor, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). In fact, they were pioneered years earlier by none other than the American mafia.
Connect the dots from Samuel Bronfman, Lewis Rosenstiel (connected to both the FBI and to Organized Crime), Charles “Lucky” Luciano, Meyer Lansky to J. Edgar Hoover, Roy Cohn & Plaza Hotel & Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan and wife Nancy, William Casey, Bill Barr, Elliott Abrams, Cohn’s network extends to Bill Clinton, whose friend and longtime political advisor, Richard “Dirty Dick” Morris, was Cohn’s cousin and close associate. Part II to come. -- 87.170.195.145 ( talk) 12:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
English language sources are readily accessible online supporting that Jeffrey Epstein is Jewish therefore I don't think it is necessary to include in a citation the quote that "Epstein, a Jewish politically well-connected billionaire, has been charged with sex trafficking". [17] I find at WP:CITE "Quotes are also useful if the source is not easily accessible...In the case of non-English sources, it may be helpful to quote from the original text and then give an English translation." Additionally I don't think any source disputes that Jeffrey Epstein is Jewish. Bus stop ( talk) 15:58, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
@Bus stop, this is an article about Jeffrey Epstein. The sources about Epstein say he is "Jewish" and an "American Jewish" business man, so the sources don't omit it. Even though you reverted this wikipedia article several times to the opposite the sources still don't seem to pick up your personal wishes. There are no sources for your private theories which seem to have the logic base that Epstein's Jewishness had no effect on his behavior in life and his criminality.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 00:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
I suggest to add a paragraph about both Bill Clinton & Donald Trump claims that they never went to Epstein Island. How about the draft sentence below? I tried to include both point of views (POV), with their respective sources & quotes.
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Francewhoa ( talk) 08:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
He was found injured in a ny cell and rushed to hospital — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.167.109.254 ( talk) 14:53, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
The amount of material covering Trump's supposed connection to Epstein is completely disproportionate to the material covering leftist connections to Epstein. Fix it. 2601:644:877F:F6D8:D5EA:30C6:8CF:FA72 ( talk) 18:18, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
"leftist connections to Epstein", and what sources support it? You say
"Fix it."Is that a command? Bus stop ( talk) 18:39, 25 July 2019 (UTC)