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I do not believe this is mentioned, and I feel it would be worth mentioning. Due to the fact that both houses of congress are sworn-in ahead of the President and Vice President's inauguration, Mrs. Clinton's tenures as First Lady and United States Senator overlapped with one another for more than sixteen days. In other words, she held both titles simultaneously for a period longer than two-weeks. I believe the only means one has of finding this out when reading the article is currently to do the math themselves if they have a keen enough eye. Appears noteworthy enough to warrant a one-sentence mention. SecretName101 ( talk) 03:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
We're obligated to tell the truth also when it's not in obvious favor of the person which the article deals with. We are not meant to write tilting biographies, and in the case of Hillary is the presidential campaign included. To compare Putin with Hitler, like she did in March 2016, is included in this. How a US President Candidate talks about other leaders of other large countries, isn't UNDUE for the presidential campaign part of this article. And it was at the very least noted by the UK news agency Reuters. Boeing720 ( talk) 22:45, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I think it would be a good thing to add to the article given the history there. I will source the section correctly of course within the standards set forth by wikipedia, but there is some information on the subject now coming to light — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.150.249.19 ( talk) 01:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
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Okay I've read the FAQ but it really sounds to me like reasoning created after the fact to justify the current image. Consensus can be decided on each individual article on how best to portray the subject and I don't see how this case is any different. (see also WP:CCC, WP:IAR) My case for changing the image is this: there are hundreds of photographs of Clinton out there. In this one she has an obvious dear-in-the-headlights look, with wide eyes and a forced smile. We can do better. Common criticism I've heard of Clinton is that she's dishonest or untrustworthy. A header image like this only reinforces that belief and makes her look fake. Thus this is also a biography of a living persons issue where the subject is being presented in an unflattering manner when clearly superior photographs exist. I won't nominate a specific one because I don't want to derail the discussion to criticisms of those, rather I'd first like to establish consensus for changing the current one. Thanks for hearing me out. 24.38.248.96 ( talk) 08:04, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I don't have a Wiki account. Can someone add that the KKK leader supported her? Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYQeQseqVXI (00:26). Thank you.
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This 11 August edit changed the infobox image from this to this.
One could argue that the 2-month time lapse shows de facto consensus. I would argue that the edit just slipped through because nobody noticed the color change. (I recall asking myself at one point whether the image always looked that bad. I decided my memory was playing tricks on me.) While display characteristics vary, I don't see how the change could be called an improvement on any display. However, after this much time I'm not going to change it back without a consensus. Pinging MelbourneStar because they attempted to do so (which edit, by the way, apparently changed a lot more than they intended due to interference by the wikipoltergeist). [4] ― Mandruss ☎ 10:22, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
Done
[5] Thank you. ―
Mandruss
☎
09:29, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
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https://hillaryclinton.com is now the website of The Office of Hillary Clinton. Tlafronz ( talk) 20:48, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
She's gone by the name "Hillary Rodham Clinton" now for a long time. Like, her book is published under that surname. Shouldn't the article be called "Hillary Rodham Clinton" instead of "Hillary Clinton", due to the fact the latter isn't her name. Its not her real name, or the name she uses in public.
I just mean, "Rodham" isn't her middle-name. It's her surname. She has a double-barreled surname. Her surname is "Rodham Clinton" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.202.245.164 ( talk • contribs)
Per RS accounts Please do not smear HRC by falsely conveying the impression she thought this was a coded message to the Russians. SPECIFICO talk 22:51, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
"....Rodham helped canvass Chicago's South Side at age 13 following the very close 1960 U.S. presidential election, where she saw evidence of electoral fraud (such as voting list entries showing addresses that were empty lots) against Republican candidate Richard Nixon. 1.
Don't have access to the reference. Is that paragraph meant to say there was evidence that Nixon had carried out electoral fraud? Is that what "...evidence...against" is trying to say? Or was there fraud against Nixon. Confusing.
Moriori (
talk)
20:40, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
At 295k, this article is on the long side for a Wikipedia article, and will only continue to grow in the future as Clinton remains a public figure engaged in public political activism. I propose to break out the "Cultural and political image of Hillary Clinton" section into a separate article. This would be consistent with other public figures of comparable stature (see, e.g., Cultural and political image of John McCain, Public image of Mike Huckabee, Public image of Mitt Romney, Public image of Rudy Giuliani, Public image of Sarah Palin). There is also, of course, an existing Public image of Bill Clinton article. I have made a draft User:BD2412/Cultural and political image of Hillary Clinton, s-merging in some other relevant material. Please feel free to tweak the draft. bd2412 T 19:56, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Done, as there has been no objection.
bd2412
T
21:28, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
I noticed in the lead section of the Trump article we say that he has made numerous controversial or false statements. We also mention protests surrounding his election and policies while introducing the alleged collusion between Trump and Russia. So I ask, in this article, why is it that we fail to say anything about Clinton's email scandal? We don't mention the act of sending and receiving classified information on insecure servers, deleting 33,000 subpoenaed emails, or false statements made to investigators. Nor do we mention the revelation from Donna Brazile that she basically rigged the primary. It seems a little biased. I'd add something myself but I know I'd get reverted. Display name 99 ( talk) 20:25, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I noticed in the section about her emails, that it never mentone that she deleted supoeana emails. It never talks about how she turned over several devices without sim cards, at least one hard drive had been smashed with what appeared to be a hammer, and that she used "bleach bit" and "acid wash" to erase information that was supposed to be turned over to the FBI. I'm sure this isn't the long standing liberal bias of the editors here *sarcasm* but I'm wondering why this was left out. Thank you in advance for your responses. Lktwnr08 ( talk) 19:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
So, out of 7 lengthy paragraphs and a quote, the sentence that she deleted the emails and tried to obstruct the investigation was deemed unnecessary? OK, got it! No bias there Ha. Lktwnr08 ( talk) 20:21, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
I have reverted an undiscussed change to the lede image by User:Richelieu94. The image they inserted is clearly of lower quality (being cropped from TV coverage) as well as being under unflattering conditions. We should no more use it than we would use one of the many available photos of Donald Trump with his hair in... strange configurations. It's just not appropriate. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 09:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Changed heading from "Meaningless fact" per WP:TALKNEW bullet 4. ― Mandruss ☎ 05:21, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
The statement "With more than 65 million votes won, Clinton won the third highest number of votes in any U.S. presidential election in history, behind President Obama's victories in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections" should be deleted. With US population increase, the voting base obviously increases with each election. Do you expect Millard Fillmore to have gotten 65 million votes? Then stating "in history" is meaningless when all of US history had a lower population. George Washington got 100% of the popular vote but there were only 4 million people in the country. The statement is meaningless. Perhaps a percent of the vote, if it were high, would be meaningful. Why not mention Trump's 62 million? It's rendered even more meaningless by the fact that popular vote has nothing to do with the election process. It's actually sort of pathetic to make this statement and it has "sore loser" written all over it.... DigbyDalton ( talk) 20:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC).
A few comments. 1) This was added only a few weeks ago, so it is not longstanding. It was challenged by reversion and the default is to keep it out until consensus is reached to retain it. 2) If we keep this, IMO it belongs in the article text rather than the lede. It is kind of a minor point, and is currently not mentioned in the text, so it should not be in the lede. 3) Personally I would be OK with adding it to the article in the "2016 presidential campaign" section. Maybe without the words "in history" which seem kind of puffery-ish. -- MelanieN ( talk) 21:31, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Since it mentions her work chairing the Save America's Treasures, we could incorporate an image from Commons:Category:The First Lady's Treasures Tour (which features images from her travel to various locations included in the initiative) to the "Traditional duties" subsection. But doubtful, as only (maybe) one or two of the images would be suitable for the article (many are small) SecretName101 ( talk) 14:52, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
Isn't it excessive to dedicate an entire paragraph to what is just one of the many legal cases she handled in her career? Perhaps we would be better of reducing it to a sentence such as, "One of the earliest cases that Clinton was assigned by the firm was a case in which she was the public defender to a man accused of raping a 12-year old girl". There is no need for so much detail about the case. Detail is better off being inclided in the dedicated article about Ms. Shelton
SecretName101 (
talk)
07:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
I mean, the case is notable in that it became a controversy/ a talking-point of critics during her 2016 campaign, but it is otherwise (from the perspective of creating a biography of Clinton) just another legal case she handled. It is not as though it were a landmark legal case. It set no new legal precedent, it was not appealed in higher courts. The case itself is certainly not an important enough facet of her Arkansas years to warrant a paragraph of coverage in Clinton's biography. If it had not been the center of controversy, news coverage, and a regular talking-point of detractors/opposition to her 2016 campaign, it would hardly be notable enough to merit mention at all on Wikipedia.
Having provided rationale for reducing its paragraph-long mention to a mere sentence. I feel confident enough in my judgement to proceed with editing the article in such a manner, and will now execute such an edit. SecretName101 ( talk) 15:40, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I'm well aware of the ways Trump supporters attempted to make a story out of this. I've edited this summary style article since 2007 in a major way with other editors and we have tried to keep a balanced voice when so-called controversies were added. When something reaches the level of noise that required a daughter article as this factoid did, we need to clearly articulate why it's in here, in the text of this article. The complaint decades later is why, but we certainly would not let that stand alone as it would give an unbalanced negative view. HRC's quote balances the "hell" quote. There is no reason, as you suggest and I agree, to mention this case at all in terms of her career, other than the fact that it was subject to press coverage years later - and now that there is an offshoot article we need something here. Further, by saying she tried unsuccessfully to be relieved of the assignment, but then offered an "effective defense" when she was not removed, I believe we are also being clear that this was her responsibility as an attorney, not representative of her personal views. And then we even say she went on to found the rape crisis center, further underlying what her personal views were. It is not as simple as just remove - and it never is as simple as counting words. I think this was a well-done way of including something that some people felt was important - but in a balanced way. It is very difficult sometimes to edit articles like this one - we have tried to do it fairly. Does anyone else have an opinion? Tvoz/ talk 20:51, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
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I would like to read more information to her post 2016 life (book and book tour), and I noticed a couple of inaccuracies in that part. Chelsea did not attend Trump's inauguration with her parents. Moreover, Hillary's appearance at the fundraiser for Elijah Cummings' Youth Program was in Baltimore yet the program is in Israel. That part is misleading. 47.63.105.200 ( talk) 17:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Like John McCain's Wikipedia page, included in the lead should state her presidential loss to her opponent.
John Sidney McCain III (born August 29, 1936) is an American politician serving as the senior United States Senator from Arizona, a seat he was first elected to in 1986. He was the Republican nominee for President of the United States in the 2008 election, which he lost to Barack Obama.
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (born October 26, 1947) is an American politician and diplomat who served as the First Lady of the United States from 1993 to 2001, U.S. Senator from New York from 2001 to 2009, 67th United States Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013, and the Democratic Party's nominee for President of the United States in the 2016 election, losing to Donald Trump. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8C0:EC90:91A:B690:994:E29A ( talk) 05:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
There is no general tradition at Wikipedia to mention the fact of loss in the first sentence about unsuccessful presidential candidates. John McCain and John Kerry put it in the first sentence, but Bob Dole, Al Gore, and Mitt Romney put it later in the lede. It is an article-by-article decision and there is nothing to be consistent with. And we have done it both ways with candidates from both parties, so any speculation about political bias is completely unwarranted. -- MelanieN alt ( talk) 03:03, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
[11] Ross11245 ( talk) 01:54, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
The current lead section, fifth paragraph, has this sentence: "She lost the presidential election to Republican opponent Donald J. Trump despite winning a plurality of the popular vote." I would suggest this sentence be reversed to say "Despite Clinton's winning a plurality of the popular vote, her Republican opponent, Donald J. Trump, won the electoral vote and the presidency," or something similar. In its current form the Electoral College is not mentioned and someone unfamiliar with American politics might be confused by the current sentence. Polkadreamer ( talk) 16:32, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Generally, people refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. Diane was her maiden middle name, but I can't find much evidence that she still has that middle name. 108.245.173.217 ( talk) 13:28, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Please, avoid the WP:LABEL "conspiracy theory". The Clinton body-count broadly means the observation that unusually many individuals directly as well as indirectly connected with the Clinton'es have died unnaturally. The body-count was a significant international discussion which has never fully resolved, with many Russia relations advocates still responding to allegations about convenient death's for the Putin administration citing the Clinton body-count. In politics, discrediting egregious and vulnerable opponents by gaslighting them and distorting their perception of reality, doesn't escape the realm of possibility. Simply because a notable person makes incredible statements, does not mean all their incredible statements can safely get assumed false. Instead more credible sources should and indeed have investigated their claims to what extent an outsider to the Clinton administration reasonably can given the resources commonly available to journalists. Many credible news sources have covered the Clinton body-count phenomenon: some editorializing; some simply stating what there investigations have found with minimal interpretation. Why doesn't this article cover or mention the topic even once?
Bear in mind, editorials by otherwise reliable publishers don't constitute reliable sources, except for facts citing primary sources which are endorsed by the publisher as an investigative secondary source. https://www.truthorfiction.com/clintonfriends/ Eaterjolly ( talk) 11:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Please, avoid the WP:LABEL "conspiracy theory".No. Conspiracy theory. Get-A-Grip territory. ― Mandruss ☎ 11:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Stop indulging this nonsense. No reliable sourcing, no notability, no way anything like this goes into a biography of her entire life and career. Tvoz/ talk 00:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
I noticed an edit at Nawal El Saadawi ( diff) that someone with knowledge of the topic might like to check. It adds an opinion about Clinton:
The claim is so peculiar that I would be interested in any backstory. Also, the statement was apparently made two weeks ago so there may be more activity. Johnuniq ( talk) 01:46, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I have added that she is one of the few presidential candidates to have an ongoing FBI investigation during her running into her accomplishments list. Some people disagree with me on this claim and keep removing my line. I don't see why as it's true, and is an accomplishment to be listed with the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keiththelegokid ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
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to add below link to 'email controversy', a link to your other Wiki article '2016 Democratic National Committee email leak' @ /info/en/?search=2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak. Many may confuse the two Clinton associated email controversies Marty1917 ( talk) 18:06, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
Do we want to add a section on the 2020 election? Namely recent comments from her long-time aides and expectations for her predicted candidacy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.24.143 ( talk) 18:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Why isn't the Pizzagate conspiracy theory mentioned? It surely affected her presidential run.-- 92.244.17.51 ( talk) 14:27, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nowhere on this page is Kathy Shelton mentioned. She was used by Donald Trump heavily during the 2016 election to claim Clinton was not sympathetic to sexual assault survivor. This is a notable person to mention, either on Clinton's wiki page under early years in her law career, or at the very least on her campaign page Dy3o2 ( talk) 06:28, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
I request this thread be closed. I looked at her early years section and see that it’s already addressed. Dy3o2 ( talk) 18:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
At some point or another, someone added content to this page about Clinton working as a public defender for someone suspected of raping a child. There is nothing to this. It's a faux right-wing controversy intended to portray her advocacy on behalf of children and rape victims as insincere, and this nonsense is currently given disproportionate coverage in our Wikipedia article. This is the text that's thrown into the sub-section 'Early Arkansas years':
This incendiary item suggests that Clinton put the screws on a raped child when in fact she was just defending her client as any court-appointed public defender is ethically and legally bound to do. It does not belong here. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 22:44, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
I think that it is in HRC's interest to include this piece.Thanks for your opinion, but that has no connection to content policy. ― Mandruss ☎ 12:12, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
In the introduction of the article it reads Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (née Rodham; born October 26, 1947). However, having Rodham and (née Rodham) is not necessary and repetitive. It should either be Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (born October 26, 1974) or Hillary Rodham Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham; born October 26, 1947). Is there any sources for what her current legal name is? Is it Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton or simply, Hillary Rodham Clinton? This should be discussed on how the introduction of the article should be read. CookieMonster755 ✉ 22:13, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
The article lead, should match the article title. Also, we shouldn't be using her 'birth surname' twice. GoodDay ( talk) 21:30, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
The article lead, should match the article title.Nope. MOS:FULLNAME: "While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name, if known, should be given in the lead sentence (including middle names, if known, or middle initials)." Followed by three real-life examples in which the article lead does not match the article title.
Also, we shouldn't be using her 'birth surname' twice.Citation needed. ― Mandruss ☎ 21:47, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
It’s been a week since CookieMonster suggested this version: Hillary Rodham Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)
Supporting this suggestion we have: CookieMonster, bd2412, Unschool, and MelanieN. Other people in the discussion have questioned what her full legal name is, without suggesting what our lead sentence ought to say. Nobody has spoken in favor of what we used to have, “Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton”. CookieMonster’s suggestion is currently in the article.
Over the past week several people changed it to other versions. Those people are now here for discussion; thank you. IMO both proposed versions are problematic:
Hillary Diane Clinton (née Rodham)- as far as I know she has never used the formulation “Hillary Diane Clinton”.
Hillary Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)- as Mandruss pointed out, the lead is supposed to be the person's full name, not the common name, and it does NOT necessarily match the article title which is the common name.
I do think the current formulation is the proper one. She used “Hillary Rodham” and then “Hillary Rodham Clinton” as her formal name and signature for most of her life - dropping the “Rodham” for common use when she ran for president, but retaining it for formal purposes. -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:29, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Go with Hillary Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)
, for the lead.
GoodDay (
talk)
01:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I think the current formulation (Hillary Rodham Clinton ( née Hillary Diane Rodham) is perfect. From the time of her marriage until 1982, she was simply "Hillary Rodham", at which time she adhered "Clinton". When she became first lady, she emphasized this full name. From the New York Times [14], this is HRC's press secretary, in February of 1993:
"The fact is," the press secretary, Lisa Caputo, said recently in mild exasperation. "Hillary Rodham Clinton has been the First Lady's name all along, since 1982. We're at a loss as to why people think this is something that we're just trying to change now."
The article goes on to say that that this is how she has signed her name since 1982, although she has never changed her legal name from Hillary Rodham. Un sch ool 21:52, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
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I do not believe this is mentioned, and I feel it would be worth mentioning. Due to the fact that both houses of congress are sworn-in ahead of the President and Vice President's inauguration, Mrs. Clinton's tenures as First Lady and United States Senator overlapped with one another for more than sixteen days. In other words, she held both titles simultaneously for a period longer than two-weeks. I believe the only means one has of finding this out when reading the article is currently to do the math themselves if they have a keen enough eye. Appears noteworthy enough to warrant a one-sentence mention. SecretName101 ( talk) 03:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
We're obligated to tell the truth also when it's not in obvious favor of the person which the article deals with. We are not meant to write tilting biographies, and in the case of Hillary is the presidential campaign included. To compare Putin with Hitler, like she did in March 2016, is included in this. How a US President Candidate talks about other leaders of other large countries, isn't UNDUE for the presidential campaign part of this article. And it was at the very least noted by the UK news agency Reuters. Boeing720 ( talk) 22:45, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I think it would be a good thing to add to the article given the history there. I will source the section correctly of course within the standards set forth by wikipedia, but there is some information on the subject now coming to light — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.150.249.19 ( talk) 01:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
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Okay I've read the FAQ but it really sounds to me like reasoning created after the fact to justify the current image. Consensus can be decided on each individual article on how best to portray the subject and I don't see how this case is any different. (see also WP:CCC, WP:IAR) My case for changing the image is this: there are hundreds of photographs of Clinton out there. In this one she has an obvious dear-in-the-headlights look, with wide eyes and a forced smile. We can do better. Common criticism I've heard of Clinton is that she's dishonest or untrustworthy. A header image like this only reinforces that belief and makes her look fake. Thus this is also a biography of a living persons issue where the subject is being presented in an unflattering manner when clearly superior photographs exist. I won't nominate a specific one because I don't want to derail the discussion to criticisms of those, rather I'd first like to establish consensus for changing the current one. Thanks for hearing me out. 24.38.248.96 ( talk) 08:04, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I don't have a Wiki account. Can someone add that the KKK leader supported her? Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYQeQseqVXI (00:26). Thank you.
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This 11 August edit changed the infobox image from this to this.
One could argue that the 2-month time lapse shows de facto consensus. I would argue that the edit just slipped through because nobody noticed the color change. (I recall asking myself at one point whether the image always looked that bad. I decided my memory was playing tricks on me.) While display characteristics vary, I don't see how the change could be called an improvement on any display. However, after this much time I'm not going to change it back without a consensus. Pinging MelbourneStar because they attempted to do so (which edit, by the way, apparently changed a lot more than they intended due to interference by the wikipoltergeist). [4] ― Mandruss ☎ 10:22, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
Done
[5] Thank you. ―
Mandruss
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https://hillaryclinton.com is now the website of The Office of Hillary Clinton. Tlafronz ( talk) 20:48, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
She's gone by the name "Hillary Rodham Clinton" now for a long time. Like, her book is published under that surname. Shouldn't the article be called "Hillary Rodham Clinton" instead of "Hillary Clinton", due to the fact the latter isn't her name. Its not her real name, or the name she uses in public.
I just mean, "Rodham" isn't her middle-name. It's her surname. She has a double-barreled surname. Her surname is "Rodham Clinton" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.202.245.164 ( talk • contribs)
Per RS accounts Please do not smear HRC by falsely conveying the impression she thought this was a coded message to the Russians. SPECIFICO talk 22:51, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
"....Rodham helped canvass Chicago's South Side at age 13 following the very close 1960 U.S. presidential election, where she saw evidence of electoral fraud (such as voting list entries showing addresses that were empty lots) against Republican candidate Richard Nixon. 1.
Don't have access to the reference. Is that paragraph meant to say there was evidence that Nixon had carried out electoral fraud? Is that what "...evidence...against" is trying to say? Or was there fraud against Nixon. Confusing.
Moriori (
talk)
20:40, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
At 295k, this article is on the long side for a Wikipedia article, and will only continue to grow in the future as Clinton remains a public figure engaged in public political activism. I propose to break out the "Cultural and political image of Hillary Clinton" section into a separate article. This would be consistent with other public figures of comparable stature (see, e.g., Cultural and political image of John McCain, Public image of Mike Huckabee, Public image of Mitt Romney, Public image of Rudy Giuliani, Public image of Sarah Palin). There is also, of course, an existing Public image of Bill Clinton article. I have made a draft User:BD2412/Cultural and political image of Hillary Clinton, s-merging in some other relevant material. Please feel free to tweak the draft. bd2412 T 19:56, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Done, as there has been no objection.
bd2412
T
21:28, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
I noticed in the lead section of the Trump article we say that he has made numerous controversial or false statements. We also mention protests surrounding his election and policies while introducing the alleged collusion between Trump and Russia. So I ask, in this article, why is it that we fail to say anything about Clinton's email scandal? We don't mention the act of sending and receiving classified information on insecure servers, deleting 33,000 subpoenaed emails, or false statements made to investigators. Nor do we mention the revelation from Donna Brazile that she basically rigged the primary. It seems a little biased. I'd add something myself but I know I'd get reverted. Display name 99 ( talk) 20:25, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I noticed in the section about her emails, that it never mentone that she deleted supoeana emails. It never talks about how she turned over several devices without sim cards, at least one hard drive had been smashed with what appeared to be a hammer, and that she used "bleach bit" and "acid wash" to erase information that was supposed to be turned over to the FBI. I'm sure this isn't the long standing liberal bias of the editors here *sarcasm* but I'm wondering why this was left out. Thank you in advance for your responses. Lktwnr08 ( talk) 19:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
So, out of 7 lengthy paragraphs and a quote, the sentence that she deleted the emails and tried to obstruct the investigation was deemed unnecessary? OK, got it! No bias there Ha. Lktwnr08 ( talk) 20:21, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
I have reverted an undiscussed change to the lede image by User:Richelieu94. The image they inserted is clearly of lower quality (being cropped from TV coverage) as well as being under unflattering conditions. We should no more use it than we would use one of the many available photos of Donald Trump with his hair in... strange configurations. It's just not appropriate. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 09:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Changed heading from "Meaningless fact" per WP:TALKNEW bullet 4. ― Mandruss ☎ 05:21, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
The statement "With more than 65 million votes won, Clinton won the third highest number of votes in any U.S. presidential election in history, behind President Obama's victories in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections" should be deleted. With US population increase, the voting base obviously increases with each election. Do you expect Millard Fillmore to have gotten 65 million votes? Then stating "in history" is meaningless when all of US history had a lower population. George Washington got 100% of the popular vote but there were only 4 million people in the country. The statement is meaningless. Perhaps a percent of the vote, if it were high, would be meaningful. Why not mention Trump's 62 million? It's rendered even more meaningless by the fact that popular vote has nothing to do with the election process. It's actually sort of pathetic to make this statement and it has "sore loser" written all over it.... DigbyDalton ( talk) 20:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC).
A few comments. 1) This was added only a few weeks ago, so it is not longstanding. It was challenged by reversion and the default is to keep it out until consensus is reached to retain it. 2) If we keep this, IMO it belongs in the article text rather than the lede. It is kind of a minor point, and is currently not mentioned in the text, so it should not be in the lede. 3) Personally I would be OK with adding it to the article in the "2016 presidential campaign" section. Maybe without the words "in history" which seem kind of puffery-ish. -- MelanieN ( talk) 21:31, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Since it mentions her work chairing the Save America's Treasures, we could incorporate an image from Commons:Category:The First Lady's Treasures Tour (which features images from her travel to various locations included in the initiative) to the "Traditional duties" subsection. But doubtful, as only (maybe) one or two of the images would be suitable for the article (many are small) SecretName101 ( talk) 14:52, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
Isn't it excessive to dedicate an entire paragraph to what is just one of the many legal cases she handled in her career? Perhaps we would be better of reducing it to a sentence such as, "One of the earliest cases that Clinton was assigned by the firm was a case in which she was the public defender to a man accused of raping a 12-year old girl". There is no need for so much detail about the case. Detail is better off being inclided in the dedicated article about Ms. Shelton
SecretName101 (
talk)
07:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
I mean, the case is notable in that it became a controversy/ a talking-point of critics during her 2016 campaign, but it is otherwise (from the perspective of creating a biography of Clinton) just another legal case she handled. It is not as though it were a landmark legal case. It set no new legal precedent, it was not appealed in higher courts. The case itself is certainly not an important enough facet of her Arkansas years to warrant a paragraph of coverage in Clinton's biography. If it had not been the center of controversy, news coverage, and a regular talking-point of detractors/opposition to her 2016 campaign, it would hardly be notable enough to merit mention at all on Wikipedia.
Having provided rationale for reducing its paragraph-long mention to a mere sentence. I feel confident enough in my judgement to proceed with editing the article in such a manner, and will now execute such an edit. SecretName101 ( talk) 15:40, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I'm well aware of the ways Trump supporters attempted to make a story out of this. I've edited this summary style article since 2007 in a major way with other editors and we have tried to keep a balanced voice when so-called controversies were added. When something reaches the level of noise that required a daughter article as this factoid did, we need to clearly articulate why it's in here, in the text of this article. The complaint decades later is why, but we certainly would not let that stand alone as it would give an unbalanced negative view. HRC's quote balances the "hell" quote. There is no reason, as you suggest and I agree, to mention this case at all in terms of her career, other than the fact that it was subject to press coverage years later - and now that there is an offshoot article we need something here. Further, by saying she tried unsuccessfully to be relieved of the assignment, but then offered an "effective defense" when she was not removed, I believe we are also being clear that this was her responsibility as an attorney, not representative of her personal views. And then we even say she went on to found the rape crisis center, further underlying what her personal views were. It is not as simple as just remove - and it never is as simple as counting words. I think this was a well-done way of including something that some people felt was important - but in a balanced way. It is very difficult sometimes to edit articles like this one - we have tried to do it fairly. Does anyone else have an opinion? Tvoz/ talk 20:51, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
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I would like to read more information to her post 2016 life (book and book tour), and I noticed a couple of inaccuracies in that part. Chelsea did not attend Trump's inauguration with her parents. Moreover, Hillary's appearance at the fundraiser for Elijah Cummings' Youth Program was in Baltimore yet the program is in Israel. That part is misleading. 47.63.105.200 ( talk) 17:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Like John McCain's Wikipedia page, included in the lead should state her presidential loss to her opponent.
John Sidney McCain III (born August 29, 1936) is an American politician serving as the senior United States Senator from Arizona, a seat he was first elected to in 1986. He was the Republican nominee for President of the United States in the 2008 election, which he lost to Barack Obama.
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (born October 26, 1947) is an American politician and diplomat who served as the First Lady of the United States from 1993 to 2001, U.S. Senator from New York from 2001 to 2009, 67th United States Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013, and the Democratic Party's nominee for President of the United States in the 2016 election, losing to Donald Trump. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8C0:EC90:91A:B690:994:E29A ( talk) 05:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
There is no general tradition at Wikipedia to mention the fact of loss in the first sentence about unsuccessful presidential candidates. John McCain and John Kerry put it in the first sentence, but Bob Dole, Al Gore, and Mitt Romney put it later in the lede. It is an article-by-article decision and there is nothing to be consistent with. And we have done it both ways with candidates from both parties, so any speculation about political bias is completely unwarranted. -- MelanieN alt ( talk) 03:03, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
[11] Ross11245 ( talk) 01:54, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
The current lead section, fifth paragraph, has this sentence: "She lost the presidential election to Republican opponent Donald J. Trump despite winning a plurality of the popular vote." I would suggest this sentence be reversed to say "Despite Clinton's winning a plurality of the popular vote, her Republican opponent, Donald J. Trump, won the electoral vote and the presidency," or something similar. In its current form the Electoral College is not mentioned and someone unfamiliar with American politics might be confused by the current sentence. Polkadreamer ( talk) 16:32, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Generally, people refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. Diane was her maiden middle name, but I can't find much evidence that she still has that middle name. 108.245.173.217 ( talk) 13:28, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Please, avoid the WP:LABEL "conspiracy theory". The Clinton body-count broadly means the observation that unusually many individuals directly as well as indirectly connected with the Clinton'es have died unnaturally. The body-count was a significant international discussion which has never fully resolved, with many Russia relations advocates still responding to allegations about convenient death's for the Putin administration citing the Clinton body-count. In politics, discrediting egregious and vulnerable opponents by gaslighting them and distorting their perception of reality, doesn't escape the realm of possibility. Simply because a notable person makes incredible statements, does not mean all their incredible statements can safely get assumed false. Instead more credible sources should and indeed have investigated their claims to what extent an outsider to the Clinton administration reasonably can given the resources commonly available to journalists. Many credible news sources have covered the Clinton body-count phenomenon: some editorializing; some simply stating what there investigations have found with minimal interpretation. Why doesn't this article cover or mention the topic even once?
Bear in mind, editorials by otherwise reliable publishers don't constitute reliable sources, except for facts citing primary sources which are endorsed by the publisher as an investigative secondary source. https://www.truthorfiction.com/clintonfriends/ Eaterjolly ( talk) 11:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Please, avoid the WP:LABEL "conspiracy theory".No. Conspiracy theory. Get-A-Grip territory. ― Mandruss ☎ 11:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Stop indulging this nonsense. No reliable sourcing, no notability, no way anything like this goes into a biography of her entire life and career. Tvoz/ talk 00:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
I noticed an edit at Nawal El Saadawi ( diff) that someone with knowledge of the topic might like to check. It adds an opinion about Clinton:
The claim is so peculiar that I would be interested in any backstory. Also, the statement was apparently made two weeks ago so there may be more activity. Johnuniq ( talk) 01:46, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I have added that she is one of the few presidential candidates to have an ongoing FBI investigation during her running into her accomplishments list. Some people disagree with me on this claim and keep removing my line. I don't see why as it's true, and is an accomplishment to be listed with the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keiththelegokid ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
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to add below link to 'email controversy', a link to your other Wiki article '2016 Democratic National Committee email leak' @ /info/en/?search=2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak. Many may confuse the two Clinton associated email controversies Marty1917 ( talk) 18:06, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
Do we want to add a section on the 2020 election? Namely recent comments from her long-time aides and expectations for her predicted candidacy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.24.143 ( talk) 18:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Why isn't the Pizzagate conspiracy theory mentioned? It surely affected her presidential run.-- 92.244.17.51 ( talk) 14:27, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nowhere on this page is Kathy Shelton mentioned. She was used by Donald Trump heavily during the 2016 election to claim Clinton was not sympathetic to sexual assault survivor. This is a notable person to mention, either on Clinton's wiki page under early years in her law career, or at the very least on her campaign page Dy3o2 ( talk) 06:28, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
I request this thread be closed. I looked at her early years section and see that it’s already addressed. Dy3o2 ( talk) 18:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
At some point or another, someone added content to this page about Clinton working as a public defender for someone suspected of raping a child. There is nothing to this. It's a faux right-wing controversy intended to portray her advocacy on behalf of children and rape victims as insincere, and this nonsense is currently given disproportionate coverage in our Wikipedia article. This is the text that's thrown into the sub-section 'Early Arkansas years':
This incendiary item suggests that Clinton put the screws on a raped child when in fact she was just defending her client as any court-appointed public defender is ethically and legally bound to do. It does not belong here. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 22:44, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
I think that it is in HRC's interest to include this piece.Thanks for your opinion, but that has no connection to content policy. ― Mandruss ☎ 12:12, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
In the introduction of the article it reads Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (née Rodham; born October 26, 1947). However, having Rodham and (née Rodham) is not necessary and repetitive. It should either be Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (born October 26, 1974) or Hillary Rodham Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham; born October 26, 1947). Is there any sources for what her current legal name is? Is it Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton or simply, Hillary Rodham Clinton? This should be discussed on how the introduction of the article should be read. CookieMonster755 ✉ 22:13, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
The article lead, should match the article title. Also, we shouldn't be using her 'birth surname' twice. GoodDay ( talk) 21:30, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
The article lead, should match the article title.Nope. MOS:FULLNAME: "While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name, if known, should be given in the lead sentence (including middle names, if known, or middle initials)." Followed by three real-life examples in which the article lead does not match the article title.
Also, we shouldn't be using her 'birth surname' twice.Citation needed. ― Mandruss ☎ 21:47, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
It’s been a week since CookieMonster suggested this version: Hillary Rodham Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)
Supporting this suggestion we have: CookieMonster, bd2412, Unschool, and MelanieN. Other people in the discussion have questioned what her full legal name is, without suggesting what our lead sentence ought to say. Nobody has spoken in favor of what we used to have, “Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton”. CookieMonster’s suggestion is currently in the article.
Over the past week several people changed it to other versions. Those people are now here for discussion; thank you. IMO both proposed versions are problematic:
Hillary Diane Clinton (née Rodham)- as far as I know she has never used the formulation “Hillary Diane Clinton”.
Hillary Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)- as Mandruss pointed out, the lead is supposed to be the person's full name, not the common name, and it does NOT necessarily match the article title which is the common name.
I do think the current formulation is the proper one. She used “Hillary Rodham” and then “Hillary Rodham Clinton” as her formal name and signature for most of her life - dropping the “Rodham” for common use when she ran for president, but retaining it for formal purposes. -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:29, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Go with Hillary Clinton (née Hillary Diane Rodham)
, for the lead.
GoodDay (
talk)
01:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I think the current formulation (Hillary Rodham Clinton ( née Hillary Diane Rodham) is perfect. From the time of her marriage until 1982, she was simply "Hillary Rodham", at which time she adhered "Clinton". When she became first lady, she emphasized this full name. From the New York Times [14], this is HRC's press secretary, in February of 1993:
"The fact is," the press secretary, Lisa Caputo, said recently in mild exasperation. "Hillary Rodham Clinton has been the First Lady's name all along, since 1982. We're at a loss as to why people think this is something that we're just trying to change now."
The article goes on to say that that this is how she has signed her name since 1982, although she has never changed her legal name from Hillary Rodham. Un sch ool 21:52, 13 June 2019 (UTC)