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NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:[[Talk:Donald Trump#Current consensus|current consensus]] item [n]
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to .
official White House portrait as the infobox image. ( Dec 2016, Jan 2017, Oct 2017, March 2020) (temporarily suspended by #19 following copyright issues on the inauguration portrait, enforced when an official public-domain portrait was released on 31 October 2017)
1. Use the
Queens, New York City, U.S.
" in the infobox. (
Nov 2016,
Oct 2018,
Feb 2021) "New York City" de-linked. (
September 2020)
gaining a majority of the U.S. Electoral College" and "
receiving a smaller share of the popular vote nationwide", without quoting numbers. ( Nov 2016, Dec 2016) (Superseded by #15 since 11 February 2017)
Oct 2016) In the lead section, just write: Removed from the lead per #47.
Forbes estimates his net worth to be [$x.x] billion.
(
July 2018,
July 2018)
Many of his public statements were controversial or false." in the lead. ( Sep 2016, February 2017, wording shortened per April 2017, upheld with July 2018) (superseded by #35 since 18 February 2019)
without
prior military or government service
". (
Dec 2016)
Include a link to Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (
Jan 2017) Include a link to an archive of Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (
Jan 2021)
10. Keep Barron Trump's name in the list of children and wikilink it, which redirects to his section in Family of Donald Trump per AfD consensus. ( Jan 2017, Nov 2016)
12. The article title is Donald Trump, not Donald J. Trump. ( RM Jan 2017, RM June 2019)
13. Auto-archival is set for discussions with no comments for 14 days. Manual archival is allowed for (1) closed discussions, 24 hours after the closure, provided the closure has not been challenged, and (2) "answered" edit requests, 24 hours after the "answer", provided there has been no follow-on discussion after the "answer". ( Jan 2017) (amended with respect to manual archiving, to better reflect common practice at this article) ( Nov 2019)
14. Omit mention of Trump's alleged bathmophobia/fear of slopes. ( Feb 2017)
Trump won the general election on November 8, 2016, …"). Accordingly the pre-RfC text ( Diff 8 Jan 2017) has been restored, with minor adjustments to past tense ( Diff 11 Feb 2018). No new changes should be applied without debate. ( RfC Feb 2017, Jan 2017, Feb 2017, Feb 2017) In particular, there is no consensus to include any wording akin to "losing the popular vote". ( RfC March 2017) (Superseded by local consensus on 26 May 2017 and lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017)
Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current president of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality." The hatnote is simply {{ Other uses}}. ( April 2017, RfC April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, July 2017, Dec 2018) Amended by lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017 and removal of inauguration date on 4 July 2018. Lower-case "p" in "president" per Dec 2018 and MOS:JOBTITLES RfC Oct 2017. Wikilinks modified per April 2020. Wikilink modified again per July 2020. "45th" de-linked. ( Jan 2021)
Wharton School ( BS Econ.)", does not mention Fordham University. ( April 2017, April 2017, Aug 2020, Dec 2020)
20. Mention protests in the lead section with this exact wording: His election and policies
(
June 2017,
May 2018) (Note: In February 2021, when he was no longer president, the verb tense was changed from "have sparked" to "sparked", without objection.)
have sparked
numerous protests.
22. Do not call Trump a "liar" in Wikipedia's voice. Falsehoods he uttered can be mentioned, while being mindful of calling them "lies", which implies malicious intent. ( RfC Aug 2017)
Trump ordered a travel ban on citizens from several Muslim-majority countries, citing security concerns; after legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld the policy's third revision.( Aug 2017, Nov 2017, Dec 2017, Jan 2018, Jan 2018) Wording updated ( July 2018) and again ( Sep 2018).
25. Do not add web archives to cited sources which are not dead. ( Dec 2017, March 2018)
26. Do not include opinions by
Michael Hayden and
Michael Morell that Trump is a "useful fool […] manipulated by Moscow"
or an "unwitting agent of the Russian Federation"
. (
RfC April 2018)
27. State that Trump falsely claimed
that Hillary Clinton started the Barack Obama birther
rumors. (
April 2018,
June 2018)
28. Include, in the Wealth section, a sentence on Jonathan Greenberg's allegation that Trump deceived him in order to get on the Forbes 400 list. ( June 2018, June 2018)
29. Include material about the Trump administration family separation policy in the article. ( June 2018)
30. Supersedes #24. The lead includes: "Many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racially charged or racist.
" (
RfC Sep 2018,
Oct 2018,
RfC May 2019)
31. Do not mention Trump's office space donation to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition in 1999. ( Nov 2018)
32. Omit from the lead the fact that Trump is the first sitting U.S. president to meet with a North Korean supreme leader. ( RfC July 2018, Nov 2018)
33. Do not mention "birtherism" in the lead section. ( RfC Nov 2018)
34. Refer to Ivana Zelníčková as a Czech model, with a link to Czechs (people), not Czechoslovakia (country). ( Jan 2019)
Trump has made many false or misleading statements during his campaign and presidency. The statements have been documented by fact-checkers, and the media have widely described the phenomenon as unprecedented in American politics.( RfC Feb 2019)
37. Resolved: Content related to Trump's presidency should be limited to summary-level about things that are likely to have a lasting impact on his life and/or long-term presidential legacy. If something is borderline or debatable, the resolution does not apply. ( June 2019)
38. Do not state in the lead that Trump is the wealthiest U.S. president ever. ( RfC June 2019)
39. Supersedes #21 and #36. Do not include any paragraph regarding Trump's mental health or mental fitness for office. Do not bring up for discussion again until an announced formal diagnosis or WP:MEDRS-level sources are provided. This does not prevent inclusion of content about temperamental fitness for office. ( RfC Aug 2019, July 2021)
40. Include, when discussing Trump's exercise or the lack thereof: He has called golfing his "primary form of exercise", although he usually does not walk the course. He considers exercise a waste of energy, because he believes the body is "like a battery, with a finite amount of energy" which is depleted by exercise.
(
RfC Aug 2019)
41. Omit book authorship (or lack thereof) from the lead section. ( RfC Nov 2019)
42. House and Senate outcomes of the impeachment process are separated by a full stop. For example: He was impeached by the House on December 18, 2019, for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. He was acquitted of both charges by the Senate on February 5, 2020.
(
Feb 2020)
43. The rules for edits to the lead are no different from those for edits below the lead. For edits that do not conflict with existing consensus: Prior consensus is NOT required. BOLD edits are allowed, subject to normal BRD process. The mere fact that an edit has not been discussed is not a valid reason to revert it. ( March 2020)
44. The lead section should mention North Korea, focusing on Trump's meetings with Kim, and stating that they haven't produced clear results. ( RfC May 2020)
46. Use the caption "Official portrait, 2017" for the infobox image. ( Aug 2020, Jan 2021)
47. Do not mention Trump's net worth or Forbes ranking (or equivalents from other publications) in the lead, nor in the infobox. ( Sep 2020)
48. Supersedes #45. Trump's reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic should be mentioned in the lead section. There is no consensus on specific wording, but the status quo is Trump reacted slowly to the
COVID-19 pandemic; he minimized the threat, ignored or contradicted many recommendations from health officials, and promoted false information about unproven treatments and the availability of testing.
(
Oct 2020,
RfC Aug 2020)
49. Supersedes #35. Include in lead: Trump has made many false and misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics.
(
Dec 2020)
50. Supersedes #17. The lead sentence is: Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who served as the 45th
president of the United States from 2017 to 2021.
(
March 2021), amended (
July 2021), inclusion of politician (
RfC September 2021)
51. Include in the lead that many of Trump's comments and actions have been characterized as misogynistic. ( Aug 2021 and Sep 2021)
52. Supersedes #23. The lead should contain a summary of Trump's actions on immigration, including the Muslim travel ban (cf. item 23), the wall, and the family separation policy. ( September 2021)
53. The lead should mention that Trump promotes conspiracy theories. ( October 2021)
54. Include in the lead that, quote, Scholars and historians rank Trump as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.
(
October 2021)
55. Regarding Trump's comments on the
2017 far-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia
, do not wiki-link "
Trump's comments" in this manner. (
RfC December 2021)
56. Retain the content that Trump never confronted Putin over its alleged bounties against American soldiers in Afghanistan
but add context. Current wording can be altered or contextualized; no consensus was achieved on alternate wordings. (
RfC November 2021) Trump's expressions of doubt regarding the Russian Bounties Program should be included in some capacity, though there there is no consensus on a specific way to characterize these expressed doubts. (
RfC March 2022)
57. Do not mention in the lead Gallup polling that states Trump's the only president to never reach 50% approval rating. ( RfC January 2022)
58. Use inline citations in the lead for the more contentious and controversial statements. Editors should further discuss which sentences would benefit from having inline citations. ( RfC May 2022, discussion on what to cite May 2022)
59. Do not label or categorize Trump as a far-right politician. ( RfC August 2022)
60. Insert the links described in the RfC January 2023.
61. When a thread is started with a general assertion that the article is biased for or against Trump (i.e., without a specific, policy-based suggestion for a change to the article), it is to be handled as follows:
{{
archive top}}
and {{
archive bottom}}
, referring to this consensus item.This does not apply to posts that are clearly in bad faith, which are to be removed on sight. ( May 2023)
62. The article's description of the five people who died during and subsequent to the January 6 Capitol attack should avoid a) mentioning the causes of death and b) an explicit mention of the Capitol Police Officer who died. ( RfC July 2023)
63. Supersedes #18. The alma mater field of the infobox reads: "University of Pennsylvania (BS)". ( September 2023)
64. Omit the {{
Very long}}
tag. (
January 2024)
65. Mention the
Abraham Accords in the article; no consensus was achieved on specific wordings. (
RfC February 2024)
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived until discussion has been formally closed. |
Hello Nikkimaria, your recent revert of reliably sourced context doesn't help with expanding a woefully thin "sub-section", which is barely 2 sentences long. I don't see why his tenure as president and his golf hobbies are necessarily mutually exclusive. So, why is this an issue and are there other ways we can expand this section? Cheers. DN ( talk) 22:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
User:Nikkimaria, I made a bold edit, you challenged it, removing longstanding material along with it, and then DN challenged your edit. You would be right if I had reverted your edit but in this case I think the onus per WP:EDITCONSENSUS currently is on you to obtain consensus. My reason for adding: it's remarkable for a former president to be working at a club, with duties — according to the justification Trump's attorney submitted to the town of Palm Beach — including "overseeing the property, evaluating the performance of employees, suggesting improvements to the club's operations, reviewing the club's financials, attending events, greeting guests and recommending candidates for membership". Not quite on the same level as 91 felony counts but far from the norm. This Palm Beach Daily News article may be a better source than the current Forbes cite: [1] (Palm Beach may have been looking for a way to avoid another 80-foot flagpole lawsuit). Background: Trump was broke in 1993, selling off property to stave off personal bankruptcy. He signed an agreement with Palm Beach that allowed him to turn Mar-a-Lago, which was zoned as a private residence, into a private club and sell memberships. Part of the agreement was that members of the club, including proprietors, were not allowed to live there for more than 21 days per year and more than 7 days at a time. He’d been violating the agreement all along but nobody paid attention until he starting showing up with the presidential motorcade and a throng of reporters in tow. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 11:46, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
"there is no consensus to include, and that is what is required."...and this
"I'm telling you you're not allowed to do this and need to undo it unless/until your or others' participation here results in a positive consensus in favour of that change.... I've been clear that I prefer the format and reasoning provided by S4T. Until someone has a better solution I'm going to drop the STICK. Cheers. DN ( talk) 01:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted. Should another editor revise that edit then the new edit will have presumed consensus until it meets with disagreement.Your edit (i.e., reverting my bold edit) also met with disagreement, and the third new edit now has presumed consensus. If—then, no end to the loop, unless it turns into edit-warring. Change through editing, per the last paragraph —
in this way, the encyclopedia gradually improves over time.Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Shouldn't the fact that Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll in a civil trial be in the lead? It is a highly relevant biographical detail about someone, that he was found to have raped a woman in a judicial proceeding.
And yes: it was rape. It wasn't rape under the anachronistic definition of NY Criminal Law (because it was with his hands), and hence the finding of the court that it was "sexual abuse," not rape, for purposes of NYC law. But the jury did find that Trump had raped Carroll, since the conduct he was found to have to engaged in [forced penetration with his hands] fits within the common meaning of rape. A filing by Judge Lewis A. Kaplan, rejecting Trump's motion for a second trial in the Carroll case, clarified this. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
To quote the judge:
The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape.' Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that. HistorianEzzat ( talk) 02:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
In 2023, a civil trial jury found that Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll.We had discussions about sexual abuse vs. rape "within the meaning of the New York Penal Law", archived here and here, and went with what the jury's decision said. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 12:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
common meaning of rape. Digital penetration is not what I think of when I hear the word. The entry in my dictionary-of-choice says "usually sexual intercourse", so, if there's a "common meaning", it would be that. Interpretations may differ in other parts of the world, but this is an American article. "Sexual abuse" is even more vague, but we're giving Trump the benefit of the ambiguity for purposes of the lead. It's a common problem with leads: there is not enough room to be as accurate and nuanced as we'd like.But all this is fairly irrelevant per policy. I haven't reviewed the previous discussions, but I assume they concluded that the word "rape" was not used in the preponderance of reliable sources. If you want to say "rape" without explanation (a necessity in the lead), you'll need to show otherwise. You have cited only one secondary source.This does not necessarily preclude further elaboration in the body section, bearing in mind that it links to an article dedicated to the subject. ― Mandruss ☎ 20:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
sexually abused" to avoid bikeshedding. The Trump claim that "it wasn't rape" relies on a technicality in New York law. The federal judge said it unequivocally:
Mr. Trump in fact did 'rape' Ms. Carroll as that term commonly is used and understood in contexts outside of the New York Penal Law. It's been litigated, it's a settled issue; I don't understand on what basis people say otherwise. DFlhb ( talk) 00:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Under the law, Trump is innocent of the crime of rape, and also innocent of any crime at all, because he has not (yet) been convicted of any crime in a court of law. People in civil trials are not entitled to any presumption of innocence, and they also cannot be found guilty of any crime. Whatever we write about Trump, we should be clear about this distinction, and clear that Trump is currently presumed innocent of any crime. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Read wp:npa and wp:agf we are governed by policies such as wp:blp which means we cannot say someone committed a crime they have not been prosecuted for, even if we think they are guilty. We are not here to right great wrongs, we are here to present what RS say. Slatersteven ( talk) 18:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
The issue is Wikipedia is edited by a select few..meaningless articles regarding say celebrities or sports are generally ignored by most people..an article like this will be viewed by millions..everyone that edits these articles has an agenda of some kind which is why I refuse to edit articles..I am honest..in the end whoever is the slickest rhetorical bullshit artist will get their way here it has nothing to do with the truth..I will not..I am not a lawyer or a wannabe lawyer ie politician...Donald Trump is a known sexual predator who has preyed on underage girls..it is common knowledge Anonymous8206 ( talk) 14:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
Can we please add this part?
In February 2024, former President Trump asserted absolute immunity against investigations into any crimes committed during his tenure. The Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments on this matter on April 25. [1] [2]
Sources
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Goodtiming8871 ( talk) 12:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
As you may know, Trump was indicted in New York on 34 counts, in Florida on 40 counts, in DC on four counts, and in Georgia on 13 counts, with a grand total of 91 felony counts. I want to focus on the Georgia counts since three of them were dismissed recently, bringing the total count down to 10 (grand total 88 across four indictments). Even though the lead section is extremely lengthy, and does cover the criminal charges, I want to know why this does not take the dismissal of those three charges into account, and because he was initially indicted on 13 charges, we could add a note saying three of the charges were dismissed. Unknown0124 ( talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
in this edit:
Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 17:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Reframed version:In the foundation's final years, its funds mostly came from donors other than Trump, who did not donate any personal funds to the charity from 2009 until 2014. [1] The foundation gave to health-care- and sports-related charities, as well as conservative groups. [2]
The foundation gave to health- and sports-related charities and conservative groups. [3] Trump did not donate any personal funds to the charity from 2009 to 2014. [4]
From 1987 to 2006, Trump gave his foundation $5.4 million which had been spent by the end of 2006. After donating a total of $65,000 in 2007–2008, he stopped donating any personal funds to the charity, [5] which received millions from other donors, including $5 million from Vince McMahon. [6] The foundation gave to health- and sports-related charities, conservative groups, [7] and charities that held events at Trump properties. [5]
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Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Trump's PRIVATE foundation not having been registered to solicit/accept money from other donors while accepting millions from other donors over many yearsUnless I'm mistaken that information is not covered in any of the versions presented here. Readers are not given a reason to understand why the external donations, or Trump's lack of donations, are significant.
It's not copy-editing if someone removes material from this page, even if it's moved to another page. At summary-level, we should provide enough information for readers to decide whether they want to look up the details in the main article. The Trump Foundation was a tax-exempt family foundation that was supposed to be "governed and funded by family members and must meet all the same IRS guidelines for private foundations". Instead, they solicited donations from others, as well as guided others to make payments for services rendered under the guise of donations, such as the McMahons' $5 million "donation" to the tax-exempt foundation for Trump's appearances in 2007's Wrestlemania 23 and the June 2009 RAW storyline of Trump allegedly buying WWE and selling it back to McMahon the next week. Trump used foundation funds as a personal piggy bank, e.g., for paying the fine in the 80-foot flagpole lawsuit we discussed in "Business career - Golf courses", above.
Flagpole settlement
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Trump had racked up a fine of $120,000 and counting when he sued the town of Palm Beach in 2006 for "abridgment to his constitutional right to free speech" for not allowing him to violate the town's restrictions on the size of private flagpoles and flags. The lawsuit ended with the town allowing him a 70-foot pole instead of the 42 feet allowed under the ordinance and waiving the fine, with Trump agreeing to make a $100,000 donation to a veterans' charity. He didn't use his own money, though, he directed the foundation to pay. |
The foundation, created in 1988, received more money from outside donors since 2001, i.e., during more than half of its existence, not just in its final years. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 18:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
charities that held events at Trump propertiesin the original version, which is worth mentioning. I now see the point of your version & support it. I've also tried fixing the issue I brought up; feel free to bold-refine or kick it back to the talk page if needed. DFlhb ( talk) 22:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
According to her bio article, she was born Melanija Knavs (with a "j") and changed her name to Melania Knauss when she became a model (~19 years before Trump acquired her). Our infobox shows "Melania Knavs"; this is an odd and unexplained hybrid of the two names and is inconsistent with the "Melania Knauss" that we use in the body. Suggest changing the infobox to "Melania Knauss", as this was her name at the time of acquisition. ― Mandruss ☎ 16:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Greetings, all. Re: New York State's civil fraud case
As the news came that the New York Appellate Court, First Division, lowered the bond amount Trump had to post and granted an extension of payment, I added to that section the following: "On March 25, New York's Appellate Division ruled that Trump can post a lower bond, "in the amount of $175 million," and granted a delay of payment by 10 days," followed by a source to that effect.
User:Space4Time3Continuum2x reverted my edit giving the following reason: "The lower bond doesn't affect the trial court's decision which stands unless overruled on appeal." I found the reason frankly absurd since the information about a lower bond quite evidently did not affect the ruling for the payment itself and reverted the edit. After being reminded of the WP:CTOP procedure, I deleted my edit and I'm now bringing this here for discussion. I still cannot fathom why anyone would delete the information about the lower-amount decision and leave the article without any mention of it just because the information was not, per their opinion, complete. Even if they were correct in this, the obviously proper move forward would be to add the ostensibly missing information rather the delete the entire text. So, I'd appreciate some light in this Alice tunnel, please. - The Gnome ( talk) 15:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
just because the information was not, per their opinion, complete— huh? My edit summary may have been a tad obtuse, definition 2b, but that's your opinion, not mine. Unless Trump files an appeal, the trial is over, and the decision stands. The appeals court's Lex Trump makes it likelier that Trump will be able to post bond and file an appeal but, until he does, WP:NOTNEWS applies. If he does appeal, our second sentence should simply replace "said he would appeal" with "appealed". Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
very much "news of the day", and WP is not a newspaper. This article isn't about the legal process; those details belong in New York civil investigation of The Trump Organization. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 12:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Update the Business section to include DJT stock that had its 1st trading day today, 3/26/2024. Per this article, Trump’s Net Worth needs to be increased to $6.4 Billion:
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-25/donald-trump-6-4-billion-net-worth-makes-him-one-of-world-s-richest-people
136.175.96.252 (
talk) 21:24, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
@Mandruss I urge you to revert your edit Thanks Jaymailsays ( talk) 03:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Spinoff from the above edit request.
But wait, it gets worse. The article currently says: "In their 2021 billionaires ranking, Trump's net worth was estimated to be $2.4 billion (1,299th in the world)." It follows with a citation with the title, "#1001 Donald Trump", accessed April 2020. And following the link takes you to the page I linked above, which verifies neither the $2.4B nor the 1,299th. What's the point of a citation that doesn't (and can't) provide verifiability? Just to give the appearance that we're complying with policy, with the hope nobody will notice that we're doing anything but? What a hot mess. If we can't do better than this in the long term, we should revisit #5 and find a better methodology. ― Mandruss ☎ 06:56, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Before requesting any edits to this protected article, please familiarise yourself with reliable sourcing requirements. Before posting an edit request on this talk page, please read the reliable sourcing and original research policies. These policies require that information in Wikipedia articles be supported by citations from reliable independent sources, and disallow your personal views, observations, interpretations, analyses, or anecdotes from being used. Only content verified by subject experts and other reliable sources may be included, and uncited material may be removed without notice. If your complaint is about an assertion made in the article, check first to see if your proposed change is supported by reliable sources. If it is not, it is highly unlikely that your request will be granted. Checking the archives for previous discussions may provide more information. Requests which do not provide citations from reliable sources, or rely on unreliable sources, may be subject to closure without any other response. |
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mainstream media, although academic works are also sometimes used. For further information, please read
Talk:Donald Trump/Response to claims of bias. |
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NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:[[Talk:Donald Trump#Current consensus|current consensus]] item [n]
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to .
official White House portrait as the infobox image. ( Dec 2016, Jan 2017, Oct 2017, March 2020) (temporarily suspended by #19 following copyright issues on the inauguration portrait, enforced when an official public-domain portrait was released on 31 October 2017)
1. Use the
Queens, New York City, U.S.
" in the infobox. (
Nov 2016,
Oct 2018,
Feb 2021) "New York City" de-linked. (
September 2020)
gaining a majority of the U.S. Electoral College" and "
receiving a smaller share of the popular vote nationwide", without quoting numbers. ( Nov 2016, Dec 2016) (Superseded by #15 since 11 February 2017)
Oct 2016) In the lead section, just write: Removed from the lead per #47.
Forbes estimates his net worth to be [$x.x] billion.
(
July 2018,
July 2018)
Many of his public statements were controversial or false." in the lead. ( Sep 2016, February 2017, wording shortened per April 2017, upheld with July 2018) (superseded by #35 since 18 February 2019)
without
prior military or government service
". (
Dec 2016)
Include a link to Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (
Jan 2017) Include a link to an archive of Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (
Jan 2021)
10. Keep Barron Trump's name in the list of children and wikilink it, which redirects to his section in Family of Donald Trump per AfD consensus. ( Jan 2017, Nov 2016)
12. The article title is Donald Trump, not Donald J. Trump. ( RM Jan 2017, RM June 2019)
13. Auto-archival is set for discussions with no comments for 14 days. Manual archival is allowed for (1) closed discussions, 24 hours after the closure, provided the closure has not been challenged, and (2) "answered" edit requests, 24 hours after the "answer", provided there has been no follow-on discussion after the "answer". ( Jan 2017) (amended with respect to manual archiving, to better reflect common practice at this article) ( Nov 2019)
14. Omit mention of Trump's alleged bathmophobia/fear of slopes. ( Feb 2017)
Trump won the general election on November 8, 2016, …"). Accordingly the pre-RfC text ( Diff 8 Jan 2017) has been restored, with minor adjustments to past tense ( Diff 11 Feb 2018). No new changes should be applied without debate. ( RfC Feb 2017, Jan 2017, Feb 2017, Feb 2017) In particular, there is no consensus to include any wording akin to "losing the popular vote". ( RfC March 2017) (Superseded by local consensus on 26 May 2017 and lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017)
Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current president of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality." The hatnote is simply {{ Other uses}}. ( April 2017, RfC April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, July 2017, Dec 2018) Amended by lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017 and removal of inauguration date on 4 July 2018. Lower-case "p" in "president" per Dec 2018 and MOS:JOBTITLES RfC Oct 2017. Wikilinks modified per April 2020. Wikilink modified again per July 2020. "45th" de-linked. ( Jan 2021)
Wharton School ( BS Econ.)", does not mention Fordham University. ( April 2017, April 2017, Aug 2020, Dec 2020)
20. Mention protests in the lead section with this exact wording: His election and policies
(
June 2017,
May 2018) (Note: In February 2021, when he was no longer president, the verb tense was changed from "have sparked" to "sparked", without objection.)
have sparked
numerous protests.
22. Do not call Trump a "liar" in Wikipedia's voice. Falsehoods he uttered can be mentioned, while being mindful of calling them "lies", which implies malicious intent. ( RfC Aug 2017)
Trump ordered a travel ban on citizens from several Muslim-majority countries, citing security concerns; after legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld the policy's third revision.( Aug 2017, Nov 2017, Dec 2017, Jan 2018, Jan 2018) Wording updated ( July 2018) and again ( Sep 2018).
25. Do not add web archives to cited sources which are not dead. ( Dec 2017, March 2018)
26. Do not include opinions by
Michael Hayden and
Michael Morell that Trump is a "useful fool […] manipulated by Moscow"
or an "unwitting agent of the Russian Federation"
. (
RfC April 2018)
27. State that Trump falsely claimed
that Hillary Clinton started the Barack Obama birther
rumors. (
April 2018,
June 2018)
28. Include, in the Wealth section, a sentence on Jonathan Greenberg's allegation that Trump deceived him in order to get on the Forbes 400 list. ( June 2018, June 2018)
29. Include material about the Trump administration family separation policy in the article. ( June 2018)
30. Supersedes #24. The lead includes: "Many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racially charged or racist.
" (
RfC Sep 2018,
Oct 2018,
RfC May 2019)
31. Do not mention Trump's office space donation to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition in 1999. ( Nov 2018)
32. Omit from the lead the fact that Trump is the first sitting U.S. president to meet with a North Korean supreme leader. ( RfC July 2018, Nov 2018)
33. Do not mention "birtherism" in the lead section. ( RfC Nov 2018)
34. Refer to Ivana Zelníčková as a Czech model, with a link to Czechs (people), not Czechoslovakia (country). ( Jan 2019)
Trump has made many false or misleading statements during his campaign and presidency. The statements have been documented by fact-checkers, and the media have widely described the phenomenon as unprecedented in American politics.( RfC Feb 2019)
37. Resolved: Content related to Trump's presidency should be limited to summary-level about things that are likely to have a lasting impact on his life and/or long-term presidential legacy. If something is borderline or debatable, the resolution does not apply. ( June 2019)
38. Do not state in the lead that Trump is the wealthiest U.S. president ever. ( RfC June 2019)
39. Supersedes #21 and #36. Do not include any paragraph regarding Trump's mental health or mental fitness for office. Do not bring up for discussion again until an announced formal diagnosis or WP:MEDRS-level sources are provided. This does not prevent inclusion of content about temperamental fitness for office. ( RfC Aug 2019, July 2021)
40. Include, when discussing Trump's exercise or the lack thereof: He has called golfing his "primary form of exercise", although he usually does not walk the course. He considers exercise a waste of energy, because he believes the body is "like a battery, with a finite amount of energy" which is depleted by exercise.
(
RfC Aug 2019)
41. Omit book authorship (or lack thereof) from the lead section. ( RfC Nov 2019)
42. House and Senate outcomes of the impeachment process are separated by a full stop. For example: He was impeached by the House on December 18, 2019, for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. He was acquitted of both charges by the Senate on February 5, 2020.
(
Feb 2020)
43. The rules for edits to the lead are no different from those for edits below the lead. For edits that do not conflict with existing consensus: Prior consensus is NOT required. BOLD edits are allowed, subject to normal BRD process. The mere fact that an edit has not been discussed is not a valid reason to revert it. ( March 2020)
44. The lead section should mention North Korea, focusing on Trump's meetings with Kim, and stating that they haven't produced clear results. ( RfC May 2020)
46. Use the caption "Official portrait, 2017" for the infobox image. ( Aug 2020, Jan 2021)
47. Do not mention Trump's net worth or Forbes ranking (or equivalents from other publications) in the lead, nor in the infobox. ( Sep 2020)
48. Supersedes #45. Trump's reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic should be mentioned in the lead section. There is no consensus on specific wording, but the status quo is Trump reacted slowly to the
COVID-19 pandemic; he minimized the threat, ignored or contradicted many recommendations from health officials, and promoted false information about unproven treatments and the availability of testing.
(
Oct 2020,
RfC Aug 2020)
49. Supersedes #35. Include in lead: Trump has made many false and misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics.
(
Dec 2020)
50. Supersedes #17. The lead sentence is: Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who served as the 45th
president of the United States from 2017 to 2021.
(
March 2021), amended (
July 2021), inclusion of politician (
RfC September 2021)
51. Include in the lead that many of Trump's comments and actions have been characterized as misogynistic. ( Aug 2021 and Sep 2021)
52. Supersedes #23. The lead should contain a summary of Trump's actions on immigration, including the Muslim travel ban (cf. item 23), the wall, and the family separation policy. ( September 2021)
53. The lead should mention that Trump promotes conspiracy theories. ( October 2021)
54. Include in the lead that, quote, Scholars and historians rank Trump as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.
(
October 2021)
55. Regarding Trump's comments on the
2017 far-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia
, do not wiki-link "
Trump's comments" in this manner. (
RfC December 2021)
56. Retain the content that Trump never confronted Putin over its alleged bounties against American soldiers in Afghanistan
but add context. Current wording can be altered or contextualized; no consensus was achieved on alternate wordings. (
RfC November 2021) Trump's expressions of doubt regarding the Russian Bounties Program should be included in some capacity, though there there is no consensus on a specific way to characterize these expressed doubts. (
RfC March 2022)
57. Do not mention in the lead Gallup polling that states Trump's the only president to never reach 50% approval rating. ( RfC January 2022)
58. Use inline citations in the lead for the more contentious and controversial statements. Editors should further discuss which sentences would benefit from having inline citations. ( RfC May 2022, discussion on what to cite May 2022)
59. Do not label or categorize Trump as a far-right politician. ( RfC August 2022)
60. Insert the links described in the RfC January 2023.
61. When a thread is started with a general assertion that the article is biased for or against Trump (i.e., without a specific, policy-based suggestion for a change to the article), it is to be handled as follows:
{{
archive top}}
and {{
archive bottom}}
, referring to this consensus item.This does not apply to posts that are clearly in bad faith, which are to be removed on sight. ( May 2023)
62. The article's description of the five people who died during and subsequent to the January 6 Capitol attack should avoid a) mentioning the causes of death and b) an explicit mention of the Capitol Police Officer who died. ( RfC July 2023)
63. Supersedes #18. The alma mater field of the infobox reads: "University of Pennsylvania (BS)". ( September 2023)
64. Omit the {{
Very long}}
tag. (
January 2024)
65. Mention the
Abraham Accords in the article; no consensus was achieved on specific wordings. (
RfC February 2024)
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived until discussion has been formally closed. |
Hello Nikkimaria, your recent revert of reliably sourced context doesn't help with expanding a woefully thin "sub-section", which is barely 2 sentences long. I don't see why his tenure as president and his golf hobbies are necessarily mutually exclusive. So, why is this an issue and are there other ways we can expand this section? Cheers. DN ( talk) 22:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
User:Nikkimaria, I made a bold edit, you challenged it, removing longstanding material along with it, and then DN challenged your edit. You would be right if I had reverted your edit but in this case I think the onus per WP:EDITCONSENSUS currently is on you to obtain consensus. My reason for adding: it's remarkable for a former president to be working at a club, with duties — according to the justification Trump's attorney submitted to the town of Palm Beach — including "overseeing the property, evaluating the performance of employees, suggesting improvements to the club's operations, reviewing the club's financials, attending events, greeting guests and recommending candidates for membership". Not quite on the same level as 91 felony counts but far from the norm. This Palm Beach Daily News article may be a better source than the current Forbes cite: [1] (Palm Beach may have been looking for a way to avoid another 80-foot flagpole lawsuit). Background: Trump was broke in 1993, selling off property to stave off personal bankruptcy. He signed an agreement with Palm Beach that allowed him to turn Mar-a-Lago, which was zoned as a private residence, into a private club and sell memberships. Part of the agreement was that members of the club, including proprietors, were not allowed to live there for more than 21 days per year and more than 7 days at a time. He’d been violating the agreement all along but nobody paid attention until he starting showing up with the presidential motorcade and a throng of reporters in tow. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 11:46, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
"there is no consensus to include, and that is what is required."...and this
"I'm telling you you're not allowed to do this and need to undo it unless/until your or others' participation here results in a positive consensus in favour of that change.... I've been clear that I prefer the format and reasoning provided by S4T. Until someone has a better solution I'm going to drop the STICK. Cheers. DN ( talk) 01:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted. Should another editor revise that edit then the new edit will have presumed consensus until it meets with disagreement.Your edit (i.e., reverting my bold edit) also met with disagreement, and the third new edit now has presumed consensus. If—then, no end to the loop, unless it turns into edit-warring. Change through editing, per the last paragraph —
in this way, the encyclopedia gradually improves over time.Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Shouldn't the fact that Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll in a civil trial be in the lead? It is a highly relevant biographical detail about someone, that he was found to have raped a woman in a judicial proceeding.
And yes: it was rape. It wasn't rape under the anachronistic definition of NY Criminal Law (because it was with his hands), and hence the finding of the court that it was "sexual abuse," not rape, for purposes of NYC law. But the jury did find that Trump had raped Carroll, since the conduct he was found to have to engaged in [forced penetration with his hands] fits within the common meaning of rape. A filing by Judge Lewis A. Kaplan, rejecting Trump's motion for a second trial in the Carroll case, clarified this. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
To quote the judge:
The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape.' Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that. HistorianEzzat ( talk) 02:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
In 2023, a civil trial jury found that Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll.We had discussions about sexual abuse vs. rape "within the meaning of the New York Penal Law", archived here and here, and went with what the jury's decision said. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 12:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
common meaning of rape. Digital penetration is not what I think of when I hear the word. The entry in my dictionary-of-choice says "usually sexual intercourse", so, if there's a "common meaning", it would be that. Interpretations may differ in other parts of the world, but this is an American article. "Sexual abuse" is even more vague, but we're giving Trump the benefit of the ambiguity for purposes of the lead. It's a common problem with leads: there is not enough room to be as accurate and nuanced as we'd like.But all this is fairly irrelevant per policy. I haven't reviewed the previous discussions, but I assume they concluded that the word "rape" was not used in the preponderance of reliable sources. If you want to say "rape" without explanation (a necessity in the lead), you'll need to show otherwise. You have cited only one secondary source.This does not necessarily preclude further elaboration in the body section, bearing in mind that it links to an article dedicated to the subject. ― Mandruss ☎ 20:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
sexually abused" to avoid bikeshedding. The Trump claim that "it wasn't rape" relies on a technicality in New York law. The federal judge said it unequivocally:
Mr. Trump in fact did 'rape' Ms. Carroll as that term commonly is used and understood in contexts outside of the New York Penal Law. It's been litigated, it's a settled issue; I don't understand on what basis people say otherwise. DFlhb ( talk) 00:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Under the law, Trump is innocent of the crime of rape, and also innocent of any crime at all, because he has not (yet) been convicted of any crime in a court of law. People in civil trials are not entitled to any presumption of innocence, and they also cannot be found guilty of any crime. Whatever we write about Trump, we should be clear about this distinction, and clear that Trump is currently presumed innocent of any crime. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Read wp:npa and wp:agf we are governed by policies such as wp:blp which means we cannot say someone committed a crime they have not been prosecuted for, even if we think they are guilty. We are not here to right great wrongs, we are here to present what RS say. Slatersteven ( talk) 18:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
The issue is Wikipedia is edited by a select few..meaningless articles regarding say celebrities or sports are generally ignored by most people..an article like this will be viewed by millions..everyone that edits these articles has an agenda of some kind which is why I refuse to edit articles..I am honest..in the end whoever is the slickest rhetorical bullshit artist will get their way here it has nothing to do with the truth..I will not..I am not a lawyer or a wannabe lawyer ie politician...Donald Trump is a known sexual predator who has preyed on underage girls..it is common knowledge Anonymous8206 ( talk) 14:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
Can we please add this part?
In February 2024, former President Trump asserted absolute immunity against investigations into any crimes committed during his tenure. The Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments on this matter on April 25. [1] [2]
Sources
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Goodtiming8871 ( talk) 12:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
As you may know, Trump was indicted in New York on 34 counts, in Florida on 40 counts, in DC on four counts, and in Georgia on 13 counts, with a grand total of 91 felony counts. I want to focus on the Georgia counts since three of them were dismissed recently, bringing the total count down to 10 (grand total 88 across four indictments). Even though the lead section is extremely lengthy, and does cover the criminal charges, I want to know why this does not take the dismissal of those three charges into account, and because he was initially indicted on 13 charges, we could add a note saying three of the charges were dismissed. Unknown0124 ( talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
in this edit:
Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 17:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Reframed version:In the foundation's final years, its funds mostly came from donors other than Trump, who did not donate any personal funds to the charity from 2009 until 2014. [1] The foundation gave to health-care- and sports-related charities, as well as conservative groups. [2]
The foundation gave to health- and sports-related charities and conservative groups. [3] Trump did not donate any personal funds to the charity from 2009 to 2014. [4]
From 1987 to 2006, Trump gave his foundation $5.4 million which had been spent by the end of 2006. After donating a total of $65,000 in 2007–2008, he stopped donating any personal funds to the charity, [5] which received millions from other donors, including $5 million from Vince McMahon. [6] The foundation gave to health- and sports-related charities, conservative groups, [7] and charities that held events at Trump properties. [5]
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Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Trump's PRIVATE foundation not having been registered to solicit/accept money from other donors while accepting millions from other donors over many yearsUnless I'm mistaken that information is not covered in any of the versions presented here. Readers are not given a reason to understand why the external donations, or Trump's lack of donations, are significant.
It's not copy-editing if someone removes material from this page, even if it's moved to another page. At summary-level, we should provide enough information for readers to decide whether they want to look up the details in the main article. The Trump Foundation was a tax-exempt family foundation that was supposed to be "governed and funded by family members and must meet all the same IRS guidelines for private foundations". Instead, they solicited donations from others, as well as guided others to make payments for services rendered under the guise of donations, such as the McMahons' $5 million "donation" to the tax-exempt foundation for Trump's appearances in 2007's Wrestlemania 23 and the June 2009 RAW storyline of Trump allegedly buying WWE and selling it back to McMahon the next week. Trump used foundation funds as a personal piggy bank, e.g., for paying the fine in the 80-foot flagpole lawsuit we discussed in "Business career - Golf courses", above.
Flagpole settlement
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Trump had racked up a fine of $120,000 and counting when he sued the town of Palm Beach in 2006 for "abridgment to his constitutional right to free speech" for not allowing him to violate the town's restrictions on the size of private flagpoles and flags. The lawsuit ended with the town allowing him a 70-foot pole instead of the 42 feet allowed under the ordinance and waiving the fine, with Trump agreeing to make a $100,000 donation to a veterans' charity. He didn't use his own money, though, he directed the foundation to pay. |
The foundation, created in 1988, received more money from outside donors since 2001, i.e., during more than half of its existence, not just in its final years. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 18:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
charities that held events at Trump propertiesin the original version, which is worth mentioning. I now see the point of your version & support it. I've also tried fixing the issue I brought up; feel free to bold-refine or kick it back to the talk page if needed. DFlhb ( talk) 22:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
According to her bio article, she was born Melanija Knavs (with a "j") and changed her name to Melania Knauss when she became a model (~19 years before Trump acquired her). Our infobox shows "Melania Knavs"; this is an odd and unexplained hybrid of the two names and is inconsistent with the "Melania Knauss" that we use in the body. Suggest changing the infobox to "Melania Knauss", as this was her name at the time of acquisition. ― Mandruss ☎ 16:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Greetings, all. Re: New York State's civil fraud case
As the news came that the New York Appellate Court, First Division, lowered the bond amount Trump had to post and granted an extension of payment, I added to that section the following: "On March 25, New York's Appellate Division ruled that Trump can post a lower bond, "in the amount of $175 million," and granted a delay of payment by 10 days," followed by a source to that effect.
User:Space4Time3Continuum2x reverted my edit giving the following reason: "The lower bond doesn't affect the trial court's decision which stands unless overruled on appeal." I found the reason frankly absurd since the information about a lower bond quite evidently did not affect the ruling for the payment itself and reverted the edit. After being reminded of the WP:CTOP procedure, I deleted my edit and I'm now bringing this here for discussion. I still cannot fathom why anyone would delete the information about the lower-amount decision and leave the article without any mention of it just because the information was not, per their opinion, complete. Even if they were correct in this, the obviously proper move forward would be to add the ostensibly missing information rather the delete the entire text. So, I'd appreciate some light in this Alice tunnel, please. - The Gnome ( talk) 15:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
just because the information was not, per their opinion, complete— huh? My edit summary may have been a tad obtuse, definition 2b, but that's your opinion, not mine. Unless Trump files an appeal, the trial is over, and the decision stands. The appeals court's Lex Trump makes it likelier that Trump will be able to post bond and file an appeal but, until he does, WP:NOTNEWS applies. If he does appeal, our second sentence should simply replace "said he would appeal" with "appealed". Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 16:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
very much "news of the day", and WP is not a newspaper. This article isn't about the legal process; those details belong in New York civil investigation of The Trump Organization. Space4Time3Continuum2x 🖖 12:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Update the Business section to include DJT stock that had its 1st trading day today, 3/26/2024. Per this article, Trump’s Net Worth needs to be increased to $6.4 Billion:
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-25/donald-trump-6-4-billion-net-worth-makes-him-one-of-world-s-richest-people
136.175.96.252 (
talk) 21:24, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
@Mandruss I urge you to revert your edit Thanks Jaymailsays ( talk) 03:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Spinoff from the above edit request.
But wait, it gets worse. The article currently says: "In their 2021 billionaires ranking, Trump's net worth was estimated to be $2.4 billion (1,299th in the world)." It follows with a citation with the title, "#1001 Donald Trump", accessed April 2020. And following the link takes you to the page I linked above, which verifies neither the $2.4B nor the 1,299th. What's the point of a citation that doesn't (and can't) provide verifiability? Just to give the appearance that we're complying with policy, with the hope nobody will notice that we're doing anything but? What a hot mess. If we can't do better than this in the long term, we should revisit #5 and find a better methodology. ― Mandruss ☎ 06:56, 27 March 2024 (UTC)