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On 27 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Gothic typeface. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
I heard that Japanese name 'Gothic' is rooted to a word 'Alternative Gothic'. The word was used by Benton, I also heard. Kzhr 11:17, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Could the name Hei 黑 also be a phonetic reference to "Helvetica"? Collin237 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.203.187.77 ( talk) 00:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
I really don't think that this page (about a typeface) should be in the "typography" category. "Typeface" is already a subcategory of "Typography" and "Shotai", the new category, is a subcategory of "Typeface". So, according to WP:CG, the category "typography" is wrong. Further, this article doesn't deal with typography to any great extent, it simply describes a typeface. -- DannyWilde 08:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
This page should probably be changed to reflect the Chinese and Korean contents. How about "CJK gothic typeface", or is there a better idea? DannyWilde 05:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone edited the page to
I don't believe that Japanese gothic typefaces are usually fixed width. Evidence, please. DannyWilde 05:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
What is the difference between "MS PGothic" and "MS UI Gothic"? -- 84.61.62.65 13:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Since I cannot find the Graphicat (my original source that is at least 20 years old) in HK any more, I will be quoting instead from the English-Chinese Dictionary of Graphic Communications ( ISBN 962-336-020-7):
This confirms the usage of the word "Gothic" as a synonym of “sans-serif” as being tradional also in Chinese typesetting.– Gniw (Wing) 18:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Considering Gothic is stated as another way of saying sans-serif, and like the Latin-based sans-serif fonts, use unified stroke width and designed to be readable at small font sizes, it will be a logical arrangement to catergorize it as sans-serif. Besides, the title 'Japanese gothic typeface' really isn't just about Japanese characters and fonts, and the main sans-serif article is short anyway. - Jacob Poon 18:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As noted above under category: typography, "Contrary to what the article might say, Gothic is not a typeface, but a whole category of typefaces." I am going through and fixing this. Thomas Phinney ( talk) 12:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Note also that the info box is inappropriate, as it is intended for use with a typeface, not a category of typefaces. (Rather goofy to say that Gothic is within the category of sans serif, when instead it is identical or analogous.) However, there is also useful info here, so I'll leave it for now and perhaps somebody else can think of an appropriate modification both here and on the Ming (typeface) page. Thomas Phinney ( talk) 12:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
When were these invented? When did they become popular? -- Beland ( talk) 04:47, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
There are three columns in that picture: Korean, Kana, Kanji. The last column includes Chinese characters, but they are not Hanzi, they are Kanji. Japanese standardized forms are used. You can clearly see that the second stroke in 天 is longer than the first one, which is would be absolutely wrong in Chinese. Morever 玄 has five strokes in Chinese, but it's impossible to achieve that in Japanese because the stroke direction is different. Compare the Chinese and Japanese versions on Wiktionary: 天, 玄. Your browser may display the Chinese and Japanese characters with different fonts, but the gothic typeface is compatible with Chinese standardized forms. -- 2.246.16.88 ( talk) 22:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. No prejudice against a new RM if a better title comes to mind. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 07:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
East Asian Gothic typeface → Gothic typeface – The only worry may be conflation with the items listed at Gothic script, but I think this is a safe WP:NATURAL decision. Remsense 诉 18:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Before the term "sans-serif" became standard in English typography, a number of other terms had been used. One of these terms for sans-serif was "grotesque", often used in Europe, and " gothic", which is still used in East Asian typography and sometimes seen in typeface names like News Gothic, Highway Gothic, Franklin Gothic or Trade Gothic.
Gothic was a popular typeface style in the middle ages from 1200-1500. The term originated from the Italians who used it to refer to the "barbaric" letterforms of Blackletter.
— fontspace.com/category/gothic
A breed of no-nonsense typefaces, called “Gothics” in the United States, have been serving as heavy hitters in financial services, business, and newspaper sectors since the late 19th Century. Gothic typefaces – not to be confused with Blackletter typefaces, which look “gothic” in a scary, medieval sort of way – are American sans serifs.
— linotype.com/2694/meet-the-american-gothic-fonts.html
Gothic: Popular with American type founders. Perhaps the first use of the term was due to the Boston Type and Stereotype Foundry, which in 1837 published a set of sans-serif typefaces under that name. It is believed that those were the first sans-serif designs to be introduced in America. [1] The term probably derived from the architectural definition, which is neither Greek nor Roman, [2] and from the extended adjective term of "Germany", which was the place where sans-serif typefaces became popular in the 19th to 20th centuries. [3] Early adopters for the term includes Miller & Richard (1863), J. & R. M. Wood (1865), Lothian, Conner, Bruce McKellar. Although the usage is now when? rare in the English-speaking world, the term is commonly used in Japan and South Korea; in China they are known by the term heiti (Chinese: 黑體), literally meaning "black type", which is probably derived from the mistranslation of Gothic as blackletter typeface, even though actual blackletter typefaces have serifs.
References
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 27 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Gothic typeface. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
I heard that Japanese name 'Gothic' is rooted to a word 'Alternative Gothic'. The word was used by Benton, I also heard. Kzhr 11:17, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Could the name Hei 黑 also be a phonetic reference to "Helvetica"? Collin237 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.203.187.77 ( talk) 00:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
I really don't think that this page (about a typeface) should be in the "typography" category. "Typeface" is already a subcategory of "Typography" and "Shotai", the new category, is a subcategory of "Typeface". So, according to WP:CG, the category "typography" is wrong. Further, this article doesn't deal with typography to any great extent, it simply describes a typeface. -- DannyWilde 08:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
This page should probably be changed to reflect the Chinese and Korean contents. How about "CJK gothic typeface", or is there a better idea? DannyWilde 05:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone edited the page to
I don't believe that Japanese gothic typefaces are usually fixed width. Evidence, please. DannyWilde 05:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
What is the difference between "MS PGothic" and "MS UI Gothic"? -- 84.61.62.65 13:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Since I cannot find the Graphicat (my original source that is at least 20 years old) in HK any more, I will be quoting instead from the English-Chinese Dictionary of Graphic Communications ( ISBN 962-336-020-7):
This confirms the usage of the word "Gothic" as a synonym of “sans-serif” as being tradional also in Chinese typesetting.– Gniw (Wing) 18:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Considering Gothic is stated as another way of saying sans-serif, and like the Latin-based sans-serif fonts, use unified stroke width and designed to be readable at small font sizes, it will be a logical arrangement to catergorize it as sans-serif. Besides, the title 'Japanese gothic typeface' really isn't just about Japanese characters and fonts, and the main sans-serif article is short anyway. - Jacob Poon 18:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As noted above under category: typography, "Contrary to what the article might say, Gothic is not a typeface, but a whole category of typefaces." I am going through and fixing this. Thomas Phinney ( talk) 12:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Note also that the info box is inappropriate, as it is intended for use with a typeface, not a category of typefaces. (Rather goofy to say that Gothic is within the category of sans serif, when instead it is identical or analogous.) However, there is also useful info here, so I'll leave it for now and perhaps somebody else can think of an appropriate modification both here and on the Ming (typeface) page. Thomas Phinney ( talk) 12:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
When were these invented? When did they become popular? -- Beland ( talk) 04:47, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
There are three columns in that picture: Korean, Kana, Kanji. The last column includes Chinese characters, but they are not Hanzi, they are Kanji. Japanese standardized forms are used. You can clearly see that the second stroke in 天 is longer than the first one, which is would be absolutely wrong in Chinese. Morever 玄 has five strokes in Chinese, but it's impossible to achieve that in Japanese because the stroke direction is different. Compare the Chinese and Japanese versions on Wiktionary: 天, 玄. Your browser may display the Chinese and Japanese characters with different fonts, but the gothic typeface is compatible with Chinese standardized forms. -- 2.246.16.88 ( talk) 22:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. No prejudice against a new RM if a better title comes to mind. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 07:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
East Asian Gothic typeface → Gothic typeface – The only worry may be conflation with the items listed at Gothic script, but I think this is a safe WP:NATURAL decision. Remsense 诉 18:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Before the term "sans-serif" became standard in English typography, a number of other terms had been used. One of these terms for sans-serif was "grotesque", often used in Europe, and " gothic", which is still used in East Asian typography and sometimes seen in typeface names like News Gothic, Highway Gothic, Franklin Gothic or Trade Gothic.
Gothic was a popular typeface style in the middle ages from 1200-1500. The term originated from the Italians who used it to refer to the "barbaric" letterforms of Blackletter.
— fontspace.com/category/gothic
A breed of no-nonsense typefaces, called “Gothics” in the United States, have been serving as heavy hitters in financial services, business, and newspaper sectors since the late 19th Century. Gothic typefaces – not to be confused with Blackletter typefaces, which look “gothic” in a scary, medieval sort of way – are American sans serifs.
— linotype.com/2694/meet-the-american-gothic-fonts.html
Gothic: Popular with American type founders. Perhaps the first use of the term was due to the Boston Type and Stereotype Foundry, which in 1837 published a set of sans-serif typefaces under that name. It is believed that those were the first sans-serif designs to be introduced in America. [1] The term probably derived from the architectural definition, which is neither Greek nor Roman, [2] and from the extended adjective term of "Germany", which was the place where sans-serif typefaces became popular in the 19th to 20th centuries. [3] Early adopters for the term includes Miller & Richard (1863), J. & R. M. Wood (1865), Lothian, Conner, Bruce McKellar. Although the usage is now when? rare in the English-speaking world, the term is commonly used in Japan and South Korea; in China they are known by the term heiti (Chinese: 黑體), literally meaning "black type", which is probably derived from the mistranslation of Gothic as blackletter typeface, even though actual blackletter typefaces have serifs.
References