This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cattle slaughter in India article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The whole "Legislation by State or Union Territory" section has no citation at all. Can someone please add it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.253.137 ( talk) 09:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 21:39, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I have re-added content concerning the origin of cattle slaughter. The statement said that slaughter became "prominent" in India after the arrival of Islam and not that it began at the time, which is why it was removed by another editor. I was looking through older versions of this article, and I can see that a lot of content was removed for copyright violation (as the section above notes). In this version before the content was removed, under the Ancient India section, there are a lot of sources that indicate that cattle slaughter and beef consumption occurred even before the arrival of Islam. In my opinion, it also better explains the change in attitude towards cattle slaughter over time. I'm not an expert on the matter, but if some editor could add the content that was removed (after removing copyright issues) then it would better explain the history of the subject. 123.237.137.5 ( talk) 15:27, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyone has any thoughts whether cattle slaughter in Nepal falls within the scope of this article? Uanfala ( talk) 00:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cattle slaughter in India. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Cattle slaughter in India. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:22, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Topic may be notable with the sourcing but I believe it is more appropriate as section on Cattle slaughter in India rather than on its own. -- Dane talk 03:37, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Hi Please check the map of india is not showing the right terrotory of j&k and china — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kunalreck ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Rashkeqamar, what on earth are you doing through WP:EDITWARring? Majority of what you wrote in your recent edits is WP:OR. Please note that the sources have to explicitly tell what you write, even if you completely believe that its accurate.
Cow is treated as a holy animal mostly among Hindus in North India, than in South India and Northeast India, where it is legal to slaughter and consume cow meat.
South India Hindus in states like Kerala, Goa ,Telangana and Karnataka eat cow meat(beef), where it is treated as a secular dish. Hindus in Northeast and states like Sikkim and West Bengal eat beef on a regular basis.[What the heck is "secular dish"? Where did that even come from?]
These things are present in none of the sources you have provided. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] — Tyler Durden (talk) 15:36, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
References
Clear picture of Beef and cow slaughter perception in India must be added.
Cow is treated as a holy animal mostly among Hindus in
North India, than in
South India
[1]
[2] and
Northeast India,
[3] where it is legal to slaughter and consume cow meat.
[4]
[5]
Scientific studies show that a
gene mutation called 13910T which originated in Europe some 7,500 years ago could be the reason for north Indians and western Indians to consume far more milk and far less meat than east Indians or south Indians.
[6]
South India Hindus in states like Kerala, Tamilnadu, [1] Goa ,Telangana and Karnataka eat cow meat(beef), where it is treated as a secular dish. [4] [5] Cow meat (beef) accounts for 40% of all meat consumed in Kerala. [2] Hindus in Northeast and states like Sikkim and West Bengal eat beef on a regular basis. [3] [7]-- Rashkeqamar ( talk) 19:17, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Ms Sarah Welch: please see [1]. It is not clear to me that cow slaughter was accepted by Hindus in earlier times. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:01, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Tyler Durden: Any RS for "the cow's traditional status as a respected creature of God in Hinduism" in the lead? I don't see the support in the main article. Strange phrase it is, with capital G and several qualifiers, but perhaps I am missing something. Once you provide a source, I will review the context and the support. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:36, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
[Copied from User talk:Vice regent/CowVigilantism
Hey there,
Someone recently told me to seek help from you regarding an article I'm developing in my userspace: User:Vice regent/CowVigilantism. Could you please leave some feedback? I'm particularly interested in knowing if you think it is neutral. VR talk 01:59, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
Be careful with newspapers/etc as sources
|
---|
|
@ Tyler Durden: The "cheap protein" comment was more to question the reliability of the source that uses a student's association president as the dietary / sociology expert. Newspapers can be useful primary source of events/tragedies/new developments. Not rest, see Nyttend's caution above. For the background section consider this, this, this and this as potential sources instead. On another note, I thought beef production/consumption/exports from India was mostly buffalo beef, but I am not current on all this and situation there, please check and clarify if appropriate. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:03, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
I thought beef production/consumption/exports from India was mostly buffalo beef.- Yeah, you're largely right here.
there are reasons why cow killing is frowned upon in the texts of Hindus/Jains/Buddhists. Not just cow, all life forms., and your lead sentence-change here, where you opened the lead with
because of the ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life: please try to understand that this page is a hugely contentious page where everyone and their brother can find some author(s), perfectly reliable, who is/are seemingly supporting their favorite family sentiment/prejudice or political agendas. (for eg., we have a renowned Indian historian D. N. Jha for one side, who wrote a book titled The Myth of the Holy Cow, saying, this cow-issue started just with the "Hindu-nationalists making the animal a symbol of the unity (& identity) of a wide-ranging people, and challenging the Muslim practice of its slaughter", also asserting that the Hindus consumed beef in ancient India, and cow is not any sacred during then — all of which attracted & entertained many audience. [1] [2] [3]) I'm not saying you are doing that, not at all. But you are opening the page to that, which will allow the POV warriors (again, you're certainly not one of them) from both sides to push their propaganda. We need to look at the broader picture, in detail. The fact of the matter is, Hindu-vegetarianism, in reality, is an empty argument in India, in the socio-political context. [4] - 70% of India is non-vegetarian, and majority of its Hindus (at least 60% of them) are apparently non-vegetarian, irrespective of what their religious texts say or do not say. Especially in the entire Southern and Eastern belt, you'll likely feel very lucky to find 2 vegetarians for every 10 Hindus you pick. (scroll down and see the image here) Frankly, there are probably more people who believe in ghosts & black magic, than those who follow vegetarianism in this whole region. Ahimsa (i.e., 'prevention of animal-violence' in this context) or vegetarianism is so weak an argument that even Hindu nationalists do not carry it as their political agenda for cow-protection.
[Babur] wrote: "Son, this nation Hindustan has different religions. Thank Allah for giving us this kingdom, we should remove all the differences from our heart and do justice to each community according to its customs. Avoid cow-slaughter to win over the hearts of the people in the matters of administration. Don't damage the places of worship and temples which fall in the boundaries of our rule. Evolve a method of ruling whereby all the people of the kingdom are happy with the king and the king is happy with the people. Islam can progress by noble deeds and not by terror...." [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:36, 14 June 2017 (UTC)Veneration for the cow increased in medieval times. Although "the stages by which the doctrine of the cow's sanctity spread throughout the Hindu community are not clearly discernible," it "comes conspicuously into view during the period of Muslim invasions, when Hindus were shocked by the constantly recurring examples of cow slaughter."[8] Early Muslim invaders killed cattle in the same iconoclastic spirit with which they smashed idols. This slaughter probably intensified Hindu veneration for the cow. The manner and extent of permitted slaughter became both a gauge of the status of Hindu and Muslim communities and a means of conciliating potential opposition. For example, Akbar prohibited cow slaughter as part of his effort to consolidate Hindu support, and he made violations of his order punishable with death.[9] [2]
References
Tyler Durden: Our goal should be an encyclopedic article, not merely a topical WP:Soap-y essay on current events summarized out of newspapers/blogs, no matter how valid or pressing they be. WP:Recentism is not the way to create a robust article, not that you are suggesting that we do so, but I note that for other page watchers. The context and the scholarly WP:RS on ancient and medieval history is important to any encyclopedic article. Wikipedia is a resource for all sorts of readers, from around the world. Build it over the Longue Durée!, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
@K: Well, I did not endorse Jha's POV. I even clearly stated that its one-sided in my previous comment itself ("for one side"). And yes, McLane's perspective above is quite appropriate, I agree. Regarding Babar's words, they can be certainly true since cow-slaughter was undoubtedly forbidden in Hindu society by Babar's time. But to take them at face value, I think we should look for corroboration from better & well-published sources (After all, it is Emperor Babar's will & testament to his son, it should've been observed by at least a couple of good scholarly sources). Rafiq Zakaria is clearly not a WP:HISTRS, and not reliable enough for this claim (IMHO). But regarding the cattle or cow-veneration / slaughter-prohibition in ancient India, there is apparently no clarity & scholarly consensus on that. Here is an RS [1] which gives another interesting treatment of POVs on this subject from Marvin Harris, which is also later reproduced in several well-published books: [2] [3] (emphasis mine)
But all this ignores history. There is more to be said for cow worship than is immediately apparent. The earliest Vedas, the Hindu sacred texts from the Second Millennium B.C., do not prohibit the slaughter of cattle. Instead, they ordain it as a part of sacrificial rites. The early Hindus did not avoid the flesh of cows and bulls; they ate it at ceremonial feasts presided over by Brahman priests. Cow worship is a relatively recent development in India; it evolved as the Hindu religion developed and changed.
This evolution is recorded in royal edicts and religious texts written during the last 3.000 years of Indian history. The Vedas from the from the first Millennium B.C. contain contradictory passages. Some referring to ritual slaughter and others to a strict taboo on consumption. A. N. Bose in 'Social and Rural Economy of Northern India, 600 B.C. —200 A.D.' concludes that many of the sacred-cow passages were incorporated into the texts by priests of a later period.
By 200 A.D. the status of Indian cattle had undergone a spiritual transformation. The Brahman priesthood exhorted the population to venerate the cow and forbade them to abuse it or to feed on it. Religious feasts involving the ritual slaughter and consumption of livestock were eliminated and meat eating was restricted to the nobility.
By 1000 AD, all Hindus were forbidden to eat beef. Ahimsa, the Hindu belief in the unity of life, was the spiritual justification for this restriction. But it is difficult to ascertain exactly when this change occurred. An important event to that helped shape the modern complex was the Islamic invasion, which took place in the Eighth Century A.D. Hindus may have found it politically expedient (this is another big POV-word) to set themselves from the invaders who were beef-eaters by emphasizing the need to prevent slaughter of their sacred animals. Thereafter, the cow assumed its modern form and to function much as it does today.
Regardless, Kautilya, my concern was about the mention of "ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life" POV in the lead-sentence. Not anything else. And for that, I was presenting Jha's POV also. I would like to know your opinion in that regard.
@Sarah: Cattle slaughter has been historically opposed by various Indian religions because of the ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life.
- I see that you still chose to put this perspective in the lead, this time not in the lead-sentence, but in its third sentence. I won't strongly resist you now since I don't intend to get into a POV war here, but I surely can't support this. Please note the caution of Ludwig Alsdorf in his book: The History of Vegetarianism and Cow-Veneration in India (source credits: yourself):
[4] (emphasis mine)
Firstly, it should once more be stated clearly that vegetarianism and a cattle-taboo must be distinguished despite all relatedness: millions of Hindus, [5] it is true, eat fish, chicken and goats, but on no account beef. The ban on cattle-killing prevails also in places where, perhaps in the service of the goddess Käli, or in religious festivals especially in Nepal, streams of goat- and buffalo blood flow, and any tourist to India has experienced that even in English-run hotels they are served chicken or what is called mutton (which in reality is goat) at every meal, but very rarely beef. The cattle-taboo is, therefore, to be treated as distinct from vegetarianism, or in addition to it. Secondly, Indian vegetarianism is unequivocally based on Ahimsa; ...
The cow/cattle-taboo concept is not "unequivocally" based on "Ahimsa and the unity of all life". There is distinctly a special love for cow/cattle here. I would urge you to use your best judgement in this case with WP:COMMONSENSE. Ahimsa or vegetarianism may be one of the reasons/rationales/justifications for the prohibition of cow/cattle-slaughter, I'm not denying that, but it is not clearly a major reason, and considering it so is a pro-Hindu POV. And it is surely not reason enough to be mentioned in the lead. Please cover this discussion in the body, but not in the lead. It is as undue as writing things like, "beef-restriction among Indian Hindus became a common practice perhaps out of their political expedience/opposition/indignation/whatever in order to set themselves from the Islamic invaders who were beef-eaters by emphasizing the need to prevent slaughter of their sacred animals", in the lead. Today anybody might not insert things like these, but someday, may be at least after some years, somebody can possibly come and do so, seeing the present lead, again with the direct & indirect support of multiple perfectly reliable sources. (You can see a newbie POV-pusher in this very talk page above, who even inserted something like: "Beef has been a 'secular dish' in Kerala in recent times", bringing an Indian Express article [5], and I had to war with him.)
Having said all this, I'll leave it to you & Kautilya (and other editors, if any) to decide regarding what to do on this. If you don't find my concerns genuine or neutral or necessary, please ignore them, never mind. Best, Tyler Durden (talk) 12:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
according to Jha, cattle including cows were neither inviolable nor revered in the ancient times as they were later. And yes, Hinduism was also greatly influenced by Buddhism & Jainism, M. N. Srinivas writes this, though not particularly in the context of cow/cattle-taboo. In any case, in this context, I personally find the treatment of Marvin Harris quite reliable in this regard, which I quoted above. Of course, except for his "politically expedient" word.
References
requote
|
---|
|
Tyler Durden: The lead sentence in your latest version looks better than the absurd and misleading one before, but it still has balance issues. Lets brainstorm alternates a bit. Here is one suggestion,
Comments welcome, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 12:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
References
in contrast to cattle being considered a source of religiously acceptable meat by the faithfuls of non-Indian religions and others.- I have a doubt. Who are the "others" here? — Tyler Durden (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I added it to the main article. Adding the names of several religions to the lead would make the lead sentence too complex, and open to concern why some minority religions are mentioned and others not. Lets reflect on this a bit please, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 05:01, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
(imply) that 100% Dalits or 100% Christians or 100% Muslims or 100% others support cattle slaughter.- Who are you saying this to? And what for? If it was to me, I never wrote anything close to that, if fact I even added "some" for Dalits here, to address this very issue. And I also don't remember anyone else writing/indicating/implying anything as such. So I'm not sure why this was stated.
NPOV requires us to summarize all significant sides...- Parsis, Buddhists & Jains in India who together constitute about 1% of the population and who have never appeared in the arena of cattle-slaughter controversy in India, are not any significant sides in this subject. Nevertheless, I did not say they should be covered. I merely asked you to consider the WP:WEIGHT factor, which in the current state, is a clear problem.
...proportionately- Jains and Buddhists, who again constitute 1% of the population, are unequivocally not even one-tenth as significant a side as Muslims, who are a primary party to this controversy, along with Hindus. Now the former two have individual sections each in the main body, which together occupy content that is almost thrice as large in size as the latter's section (Islam). I don't think that this comes nowhere near proportionately. Best regards, Tyler Durden (talk) 19:58, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
@ Tyler Durden: Please read WP:NEWSORG. It is a part of the community agreed content policy on how to identify reliable sources. Please avoid using newspapers as your sources for legal / medical / health / history / religion / etc scholarship in this article (see Nyttend's explanation above for why). We need to be careful, as the policy explains, given the WP:CIRCULAR problem with news media. Yes, newspapers are good primary sources for news / current events / new development / announcement / etc. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:03, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Bone in meat, carcass, half carcass of buffalo is also prohibited and is not permitted to be exported. Only the boneless meat of buffalo [...] is permitted for export.— in your later step. Best regards, Tyler Durden (talk) 00:23, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello
the following section reads awkwardly and should have a with between along and his
Dalits and castes
Some scholars state that the Hindu views on cattle slaughter and beef eating is caste-based, while other scholars disagree. Dalit Hindus eat beef state the former, while the latter state that the position of Dalit Hindus on cattle slaughter is ambiguous.[101][102]
Deryck Lodrick states, for example, “beef-eating is common among low caste Hindus", and vegetarianism is an upper caste phenomenon.[101] According to Simoons and Lodrick, the reverence for cattle among Hindus, and Indians in general, is more comprehensively understood by considering both the religious dimensions and the daily lives in rural India.[103] The veneration of cow across various Hindu castes, states Lodrick, emerged with the "fifteenth century revival of Vaishnavism", when god Krishna along his cows became a popular object of bhakti (devotional worship) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:DA42:200:48F6:77BE:E5E1:6F57 ( talk) 18:55, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
@ Ms Sarah Welch: I think this content is not exactly supported by the cited source:
According to People's Union for Democratic Rights, in contrast, the opposition to cow slaughter is widespread among Hindus, the social identity of those who slaughter cattle is unimportant, and the Hindu opposition is at cow-slaughter, not specific religion or caste. The situation has been complicated, states Singh, by the media and by the attempts to gain political attention by some who project caste or religion of those who slaughter cow, to be a driving factor. [1] The selling of old cattle for skin is, states Singh, supported by members of both "dominant and subordinate castes" for the leather-related economy. Some Dalits work in leather which includes cow-skin and they rely on it for their livelihood. Yet, some Dalits also question whether it is accurate to allege that they have been singled out as a target by higher caste cow protectors, because some cow-protectors are Dalit. [1] failed verification
References
- ^ a b People's Union for Democratic Rights (2009), "Dalit Lynching at Dulina: Cow-Protection, Caste and Communalism", in Ujjwal Kumar Singh (ed.), Human Rights and Peace: Ideas, Laws, Institutions and Movements, SAGE Publications, pp. 154–159 with notes on 162-163, ISBN 978-81-7829-884-9
The PUDR report is mainly focused on the Dulina incident, with some vague remarks on the general situation. It neither states nor denies that the Dalits engage in cow-slaughter, but, according to the report, it is widely believed that they do so. Many of the statements that you attribute to the PUDR are actually attributed to the VHP and Bajrang Dal in the report. I don't think this report is actually contradicting the scholarly source that is cited earlier. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:47, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
European memoirs on cattle in India:
They would not kill an animal on any account, not even a fly, or a flea, or a louse, or anything in fact that has life; for they say these have all souls, and it would be sin to do so.
—Marco Polo, III.20, 13th century
Venetian traveler to India[79]
@Sarah: Do we really need this quote? a) It is in the 'Christianity' section but saying nothing about Christianity in India. b) It is saying nothing about the cattle in particular, nor is it the context of cattle from the source. c) The same/similar message is conveyed already, some around 20 times in 'Indian religions' section, and also in the other two quotes, placed in the article above. Why this quote again?
And moreover, why does anyone want travelers' quotes from 13th century? History started being well-recorded by that time, and everyone knows that Indians made a fetish out of their cow/cattle by 13th century! --- Tyler Durden (talk) 06:06, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Who added Nehru's views to this article? That Indian traitor is not notable in Hindutva nation today. Biased newspapers will note his views, wikipedia should not. Read WP:HISTRS. And Vamsee Krishna alias Tyler Durden is using improper edit summaries for wikipedia. Senior admins please see this abuse of religions - https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Cattle_slaughter_in_India&diff=785638551&oldid=785612967 He should be blocked from editing immediately. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:21, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
How is this not a reliable source? VR talk 06:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
There has been on-going discussion elsewhere. Copied below:
I have included the image here to ease the discussion. Please note that the uploader of the image in 2006 tagged it on Flickr that the buffalo sacrifice took place in Delhi. The slaughter is similar to images from the Islamic Eid sacrifice festival linked above, and the participants are wearing similar caps. This slaughter is as illustrative as the Assam image which someone else added to this article in the past. In both cases, we are relying on tags / uploader providing information. I welcome a discussion on which images should be included. I am also open to a revised caption. Any concerns and suggestions? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 12:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
@
Kautilya3: is there a way to display this same section on the other talk page (
Talk:Kutha meat)? There is no sense is having the same discussion on multiple talk pages. I tried the Transclusion template, but I must be doing the coding wrong because it is not working in preview mode.
Ms Sarah Welch (
talk) 12:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC) Done
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Cattle slaughter in India's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "IT 11 Jan":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
@Fowler&fowler can you please take a look at Cattle_slaughter in India#Hinduism. I believe the Section on Hinduism only presents the Point of View (POV) of Arya Samajis not Hinduism. A massive pruning is needed. How do you suggest to proceed. I came here to add the Public domain picture and saw the section in need of some help. Venkat TL ( talk) 15:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
The lead says Hindus are against cow slaughter because of their principles of Ahimsa. This does not seem that general: Ahimsa, or non-violence as I understand it, applies to all creatures and not just female cattle. Is it then correct to say in an article about cattle slaughter that the principle of ahimsa explicitly rules against cattle slaughter? Indielov ( talk) 17:27, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
An unsourced material has been inserted under Mughal Empire section: "During Aurangzeb's rule, he encouraged the slaughter of cows and kept on harassing people of all religious groups other than Muslims especially the Hindus in his kingdom." I deleted this line since no citation has been inserted to verify this contentious claim. Editor 1203 ( talk) 20:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cattle slaughter in India article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The whole "Legislation by State or Union Territory" section has no citation at all. Can someone please add it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.253.137 ( talk) 09:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 21:39, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I have re-added content concerning the origin of cattle slaughter. The statement said that slaughter became "prominent" in India after the arrival of Islam and not that it began at the time, which is why it was removed by another editor. I was looking through older versions of this article, and I can see that a lot of content was removed for copyright violation (as the section above notes). In this version before the content was removed, under the Ancient India section, there are a lot of sources that indicate that cattle slaughter and beef consumption occurred even before the arrival of Islam. In my opinion, it also better explains the change in attitude towards cattle slaughter over time. I'm not an expert on the matter, but if some editor could add the content that was removed (after removing copyright issues) then it would better explain the history of the subject. 123.237.137.5 ( talk) 15:27, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyone has any thoughts whether cattle slaughter in Nepal falls within the scope of this article? Uanfala ( talk) 00:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cattle slaughter in India. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Cattle slaughter in India. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:22, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Topic may be notable with the sourcing but I believe it is more appropriate as section on Cattle slaughter in India rather than on its own. -- Dane talk 03:37, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Hi Please check the map of india is not showing the right terrotory of j&k and china — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kunalreck ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Rashkeqamar, what on earth are you doing through WP:EDITWARring? Majority of what you wrote in your recent edits is WP:OR. Please note that the sources have to explicitly tell what you write, even if you completely believe that its accurate.
Cow is treated as a holy animal mostly among Hindus in North India, than in South India and Northeast India, where it is legal to slaughter and consume cow meat.
South India Hindus in states like Kerala, Goa ,Telangana and Karnataka eat cow meat(beef), where it is treated as a secular dish. Hindus in Northeast and states like Sikkim and West Bengal eat beef on a regular basis.[What the heck is "secular dish"? Where did that even come from?]
These things are present in none of the sources you have provided. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] — Tyler Durden (talk) 15:36, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
References
Clear picture of Beef and cow slaughter perception in India must be added.
Cow is treated as a holy animal mostly among Hindus in
North India, than in
South India
[1]
[2] and
Northeast India,
[3] where it is legal to slaughter and consume cow meat.
[4]
[5]
Scientific studies show that a
gene mutation called 13910T which originated in Europe some 7,500 years ago could be the reason for north Indians and western Indians to consume far more milk and far less meat than east Indians or south Indians.
[6]
South India Hindus in states like Kerala, Tamilnadu, [1] Goa ,Telangana and Karnataka eat cow meat(beef), where it is treated as a secular dish. [4] [5] Cow meat (beef) accounts for 40% of all meat consumed in Kerala. [2] Hindus in Northeast and states like Sikkim and West Bengal eat beef on a regular basis. [3] [7]-- Rashkeqamar ( talk) 19:17, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Ms Sarah Welch: please see [1]. It is not clear to me that cow slaughter was accepted by Hindus in earlier times. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:01, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Tyler Durden: Any RS for "the cow's traditional status as a respected creature of God in Hinduism" in the lead? I don't see the support in the main article. Strange phrase it is, with capital G and several qualifiers, but perhaps I am missing something. Once you provide a source, I will review the context and the support. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:36, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
[Copied from User talk:Vice regent/CowVigilantism
Hey there,
Someone recently told me to seek help from you regarding an article I'm developing in my userspace: User:Vice regent/CowVigilantism. Could you please leave some feedback? I'm particularly interested in knowing if you think it is neutral. VR talk 01:59, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
Be careful with newspapers/etc as sources
|
---|
|
@ Tyler Durden: The "cheap protein" comment was more to question the reliability of the source that uses a student's association president as the dietary / sociology expert. Newspapers can be useful primary source of events/tragedies/new developments. Not rest, see Nyttend's caution above. For the background section consider this, this, this and this as potential sources instead. On another note, I thought beef production/consumption/exports from India was mostly buffalo beef, but I am not current on all this and situation there, please check and clarify if appropriate. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:03, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
I thought beef production/consumption/exports from India was mostly buffalo beef.- Yeah, you're largely right here.
there are reasons why cow killing is frowned upon in the texts of Hindus/Jains/Buddhists. Not just cow, all life forms., and your lead sentence-change here, where you opened the lead with
because of the ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life: please try to understand that this page is a hugely contentious page where everyone and their brother can find some author(s), perfectly reliable, who is/are seemingly supporting their favorite family sentiment/prejudice or political agendas. (for eg., we have a renowned Indian historian D. N. Jha for one side, who wrote a book titled The Myth of the Holy Cow, saying, this cow-issue started just with the "Hindu-nationalists making the animal a symbol of the unity (& identity) of a wide-ranging people, and challenging the Muslim practice of its slaughter", also asserting that the Hindus consumed beef in ancient India, and cow is not any sacred during then — all of which attracted & entertained many audience. [1] [2] [3]) I'm not saying you are doing that, not at all. But you are opening the page to that, which will allow the POV warriors (again, you're certainly not one of them) from both sides to push their propaganda. We need to look at the broader picture, in detail. The fact of the matter is, Hindu-vegetarianism, in reality, is an empty argument in India, in the socio-political context. [4] - 70% of India is non-vegetarian, and majority of its Hindus (at least 60% of them) are apparently non-vegetarian, irrespective of what their religious texts say or do not say. Especially in the entire Southern and Eastern belt, you'll likely feel very lucky to find 2 vegetarians for every 10 Hindus you pick. (scroll down and see the image here) Frankly, there are probably more people who believe in ghosts & black magic, than those who follow vegetarianism in this whole region. Ahimsa (i.e., 'prevention of animal-violence' in this context) or vegetarianism is so weak an argument that even Hindu nationalists do not carry it as their political agenda for cow-protection.
[Babur] wrote: "Son, this nation Hindustan has different religions. Thank Allah for giving us this kingdom, we should remove all the differences from our heart and do justice to each community according to its customs. Avoid cow-slaughter to win over the hearts of the people in the matters of administration. Don't damage the places of worship and temples which fall in the boundaries of our rule. Evolve a method of ruling whereby all the people of the kingdom are happy with the king and the king is happy with the people. Islam can progress by noble deeds and not by terror...." [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:36, 14 June 2017 (UTC)Veneration for the cow increased in medieval times. Although "the stages by which the doctrine of the cow's sanctity spread throughout the Hindu community are not clearly discernible," it "comes conspicuously into view during the period of Muslim invasions, when Hindus were shocked by the constantly recurring examples of cow slaughter."[8] Early Muslim invaders killed cattle in the same iconoclastic spirit with which they smashed idols. This slaughter probably intensified Hindu veneration for the cow. The manner and extent of permitted slaughter became both a gauge of the status of Hindu and Muslim communities and a means of conciliating potential opposition. For example, Akbar prohibited cow slaughter as part of his effort to consolidate Hindu support, and he made violations of his order punishable with death.[9] [2]
References
Tyler Durden: Our goal should be an encyclopedic article, not merely a topical WP:Soap-y essay on current events summarized out of newspapers/blogs, no matter how valid or pressing they be. WP:Recentism is not the way to create a robust article, not that you are suggesting that we do so, but I note that for other page watchers. The context and the scholarly WP:RS on ancient and medieval history is important to any encyclopedic article. Wikipedia is a resource for all sorts of readers, from around the world. Build it over the Longue Durée!, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 00:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
@K: Well, I did not endorse Jha's POV. I even clearly stated that its one-sided in my previous comment itself ("for one side"). And yes, McLane's perspective above is quite appropriate, I agree. Regarding Babar's words, they can be certainly true since cow-slaughter was undoubtedly forbidden in Hindu society by Babar's time. But to take them at face value, I think we should look for corroboration from better & well-published sources (After all, it is Emperor Babar's will & testament to his son, it should've been observed by at least a couple of good scholarly sources). Rafiq Zakaria is clearly not a WP:HISTRS, and not reliable enough for this claim (IMHO). But regarding the cattle or cow-veneration / slaughter-prohibition in ancient India, there is apparently no clarity & scholarly consensus on that. Here is an RS [1] which gives another interesting treatment of POVs on this subject from Marvin Harris, which is also later reproduced in several well-published books: [2] [3] (emphasis mine)
But all this ignores history. There is more to be said for cow worship than is immediately apparent. The earliest Vedas, the Hindu sacred texts from the Second Millennium B.C., do not prohibit the slaughter of cattle. Instead, they ordain it as a part of sacrificial rites. The early Hindus did not avoid the flesh of cows and bulls; they ate it at ceremonial feasts presided over by Brahman priests. Cow worship is a relatively recent development in India; it evolved as the Hindu religion developed and changed.
This evolution is recorded in royal edicts and religious texts written during the last 3.000 years of Indian history. The Vedas from the from the first Millennium B.C. contain contradictory passages. Some referring to ritual slaughter and others to a strict taboo on consumption. A. N. Bose in 'Social and Rural Economy of Northern India, 600 B.C. —200 A.D.' concludes that many of the sacred-cow passages were incorporated into the texts by priests of a later period.
By 200 A.D. the status of Indian cattle had undergone a spiritual transformation. The Brahman priesthood exhorted the population to venerate the cow and forbade them to abuse it or to feed on it. Religious feasts involving the ritual slaughter and consumption of livestock were eliminated and meat eating was restricted to the nobility.
By 1000 AD, all Hindus were forbidden to eat beef. Ahimsa, the Hindu belief in the unity of life, was the spiritual justification for this restriction. But it is difficult to ascertain exactly when this change occurred. An important event to that helped shape the modern complex was the Islamic invasion, which took place in the Eighth Century A.D. Hindus may have found it politically expedient (this is another big POV-word) to set themselves from the invaders who were beef-eaters by emphasizing the need to prevent slaughter of their sacred animals. Thereafter, the cow assumed its modern form and to function much as it does today.
Regardless, Kautilya, my concern was about the mention of "ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life" POV in the lead-sentence. Not anything else. And for that, I was presenting Jha's POV also. I would like to know your opinion in that regard.
@Sarah: Cattle slaughter has been historically opposed by various Indian religions because of the ethical principle of Ahimsa (non-violence) and the belief in the unity of all life.
- I see that you still chose to put this perspective in the lead, this time not in the lead-sentence, but in its third sentence. I won't strongly resist you now since I don't intend to get into a POV war here, but I surely can't support this. Please note the caution of Ludwig Alsdorf in his book: The History of Vegetarianism and Cow-Veneration in India (source credits: yourself):
[4] (emphasis mine)
Firstly, it should once more be stated clearly that vegetarianism and a cattle-taboo must be distinguished despite all relatedness: millions of Hindus, [5] it is true, eat fish, chicken and goats, but on no account beef. The ban on cattle-killing prevails also in places where, perhaps in the service of the goddess Käli, or in religious festivals especially in Nepal, streams of goat- and buffalo blood flow, and any tourist to India has experienced that even in English-run hotels they are served chicken or what is called mutton (which in reality is goat) at every meal, but very rarely beef. The cattle-taboo is, therefore, to be treated as distinct from vegetarianism, or in addition to it. Secondly, Indian vegetarianism is unequivocally based on Ahimsa; ...
The cow/cattle-taboo concept is not "unequivocally" based on "Ahimsa and the unity of all life". There is distinctly a special love for cow/cattle here. I would urge you to use your best judgement in this case with WP:COMMONSENSE. Ahimsa or vegetarianism may be one of the reasons/rationales/justifications for the prohibition of cow/cattle-slaughter, I'm not denying that, but it is not clearly a major reason, and considering it so is a pro-Hindu POV. And it is surely not reason enough to be mentioned in the lead. Please cover this discussion in the body, but not in the lead. It is as undue as writing things like, "beef-restriction among Indian Hindus became a common practice perhaps out of their political expedience/opposition/indignation/whatever in order to set themselves from the Islamic invaders who were beef-eaters by emphasizing the need to prevent slaughter of their sacred animals", in the lead. Today anybody might not insert things like these, but someday, may be at least after some years, somebody can possibly come and do so, seeing the present lead, again with the direct & indirect support of multiple perfectly reliable sources. (You can see a newbie POV-pusher in this very talk page above, who even inserted something like: "Beef has been a 'secular dish' in Kerala in recent times", bringing an Indian Express article [5], and I had to war with him.)
Having said all this, I'll leave it to you & Kautilya (and other editors, if any) to decide regarding what to do on this. If you don't find my concerns genuine or neutral or necessary, please ignore them, never mind. Best, Tyler Durden (talk) 12:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
according to Jha, cattle including cows were neither inviolable nor revered in the ancient times as they were later. And yes, Hinduism was also greatly influenced by Buddhism & Jainism, M. N. Srinivas writes this, though not particularly in the context of cow/cattle-taboo. In any case, in this context, I personally find the treatment of Marvin Harris quite reliable in this regard, which I quoted above. Of course, except for his "politically expedient" word.
References
requote
|
---|
|
Tyler Durden: The lead sentence in your latest version looks better than the absurd and misleading one before, but it still has balance issues. Lets brainstorm alternates a bit. Here is one suggestion,
Comments welcome, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 12:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
References
in contrast to cattle being considered a source of religiously acceptable meat by the faithfuls of non-Indian religions and others.- I have a doubt. Who are the "others" here? — Tyler Durden (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I added it to the main article. Adding the names of several religions to the lead would make the lead sentence too complex, and open to concern why some minority religions are mentioned and others not. Lets reflect on this a bit please, Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 05:01, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
(imply) that 100% Dalits or 100% Christians or 100% Muslims or 100% others support cattle slaughter.- Who are you saying this to? And what for? If it was to me, I never wrote anything close to that, if fact I even added "some" for Dalits here, to address this very issue. And I also don't remember anyone else writing/indicating/implying anything as such. So I'm not sure why this was stated.
NPOV requires us to summarize all significant sides...- Parsis, Buddhists & Jains in India who together constitute about 1% of the population and who have never appeared in the arena of cattle-slaughter controversy in India, are not any significant sides in this subject. Nevertheless, I did not say they should be covered. I merely asked you to consider the WP:WEIGHT factor, which in the current state, is a clear problem.
...proportionately- Jains and Buddhists, who again constitute 1% of the population, are unequivocally not even one-tenth as significant a side as Muslims, who are a primary party to this controversy, along with Hindus. Now the former two have individual sections each in the main body, which together occupy content that is almost thrice as large in size as the latter's section (Islam). I don't think that this comes nowhere near proportionately. Best regards, Tyler Durden (talk) 19:58, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
@ Tyler Durden: Please read WP:NEWSORG. It is a part of the community agreed content policy on how to identify reliable sources. Please avoid using newspapers as your sources for legal / medical / health / history / religion / etc scholarship in this article (see Nyttend's explanation above for why). We need to be careful, as the policy explains, given the WP:CIRCULAR problem with news media. Yes, newspapers are good primary sources for news / current events / new development / announcement / etc. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 18:03, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Bone in meat, carcass, half carcass of buffalo is also prohibited and is not permitted to be exported. Only the boneless meat of buffalo [...] is permitted for export.— in your later step. Best regards, Tyler Durden (talk) 00:23, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello
the following section reads awkwardly and should have a with between along and his
Dalits and castes
Some scholars state that the Hindu views on cattle slaughter and beef eating is caste-based, while other scholars disagree. Dalit Hindus eat beef state the former, while the latter state that the position of Dalit Hindus on cattle slaughter is ambiguous.[101][102]
Deryck Lodrick states, for example, “beef-eating is common among low caste Hindus", and vegetarianism is an upper caste phenomenon.[101] According to Simoons and Lodrick, the reverence for cattle among Hindus, and Indians in general, is more comprehensively understood by considering both the religious dimensions and the daily lives in rural India.[103] The veneration of cow across various Hindu castes, states Lodrick, emerged with the "fifteenth century revival of Vaishnavism", when god Krishna along his cows became a popular object of bhakti (devotional worship) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:DA42:200:48F6:77BE:E5E1:6F57 ( talk) 18:55, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
@ Ms Sarah Welch: I think this content is not exactly supported by the cited source:
According to People's Union for Democratic Rights, in contrast, the opposition to cow slaughter is widespread among Hindus, the social identity of those who slaughter cattle is unimportant, and the Hindu opposition is at cow-slaughter, not specific religion or caste. The situation has been complicated, states Singh, by the media and by the attempts to gain political attention by some who project caste or religion of those who slaughter cow, to be a driving factor. [1] The selling of old cattle for skin is, states Singh, supported by members of both "dominant and subordinate castes" for the leather-related economy. Some Dalits work in leather which includes cow-skin and they rely on it for their livelihood. Yet, some Dalits also question whether it is accurate to allege that they have been singled out as a target by higher caste cow protectors, because some cow-protectors are Dalit. [1] failed verification
References
- ^ a b People's Union for Democratic Rights (2009), "Dalit Lynching at Dulina: Cow-Protection, Caste and Communalism", in Ujjwal Kumar Singh (ed.), Human Rights and Peace: Ideas, Laws, Institutions and Movements, SAGE Publications, pp. 154–159 with notes on 162-163, ISBN 978-81-7829-884-9
The PUDR report is mainly focused on the Dulina incident, with some vague remarks on the general situation. It neither states nor denies that the Dalits engage in cow-slaughter, but, according to the report, it is widely believed that they do so. Many of the statements that you attribute to the PUDR are actually attributed to the VHP and Bajrang Dal in the report. I don't think this report is actually contradicting the scholarly source that is cited earlier. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:47, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
European memoirs on cattle in India:
They would not kill an animal on any account, not even a fly, or a flea, or a louse, or anything in fact that has life; for they say these have all souls, and it would be sin to do so.
—Marco Polo, III.20, 13th century
Venetian traveler to India[79]
@Sarah: Do we really need this quote? a) It is in the 'Christianity' section but saying nothing about Christianity in India. b) It is saying nothing about the cattle in particular, nor is it the context of cattle from the source. c) The same/similar message is conveyed already, some around 20 times in 'Indian religions' section, and also in the other two quotes, placed in the article above. Why this quote again?
And moreover, why does anyone want travelers' quotes from 13th century? History started being well-recorded by that time, and everyone knows that Indians made a fetish out of their cow/cattle by 13th century! --- Tyler Durden (talk) 06:06, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Who added Nehru's views to this article? That Indian traitor is not notable in Hindutva nation today. Biased newspapers will note his views, wikipedia should not. Read WP:HISTRS. And Vamsee Krishna alias Tyler Durden is using improper edit summaries for wikipedia. Senior admins please see this abuse of religions - https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Cattle_slaughter_in_India&diff=785638551&oldid=785612967 He should be blocked from editing immediately. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:21, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
How is this not a reliable source? VR talk 06:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
There has been on-going discussion elsewhere. Copied below:
I have included the image here to ease the discussion. Please note that the uploader of the image in 2006 tagged it on Flickr that the buffalo sacrifice took place in Delhi. The slaughter is similar to images from the Islamic Eid sacrifice festival linked above, and the participants are wearing similar caps. This slaughter is as illustrative as the Assam image which someone else added to this article in the past. In both cases, we are relying on tags / uploader providing information. I welcome a discussion on which images should be included. I am also open to a revised caption. Any concerns and suggestions? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 12:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
@
Kautilya3: is there a way to display this same section on the other talk page (
Talk:Kutha meat)? There is no sense is having the same discussion on multiple talk pages. I tried the Transclusion template, but I must be doing the coding wrong because it is not working in preview mode.
Ms Sarah Welch (
talk) 12:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC) Done
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Cattle slaughter in India's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "IT 11 Jan":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
@Fowler&fowler can you please take a look at Cattle_slaughter in India#Hinduism. I believe the Section on Hinduism only presents the Point of View (POV) of Arya Samajis not Hinduism. A massive pruning is needed. How do you suggest to proceed. I came here to add the Public domain picture and saw the section in need of some help. Venkat TL ( talk) 15:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
The lead says Hindus are against cow slaughter because of their principles of Ahimsa. This does not seem that general: Ahimsa, or non-violence as I understand it, applies to all creatures and not just female cattle. Is it then correct to say in an article about cattle slaughter that the principle of ahimsa explicitly rules against cattle slaughter? Indielov ( talk) 17:27, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
An unsourced material has been inserted under Mughal Empire section: "During Aurangzeb's rule, he encouraged the slaughter of cows and kept on harassing people of all religious groups other than Muslims especially the Hindus in his kingdom." I deleted this line since no citation has been inserted to verify this contentious claim. Editor 1203 ( talk) 20:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)