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Should this article have this lead image? Kolya Butternut ( talk) 16:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Linda Keita has repeatedly changed the population numbers without updating the source. If they're accurate, they can be included with an updated source (I couldn't find a reliable source that confirms the numbers but someone else may have better luck). In the mean time, please stop changing the numbers without changing the cited source.-- Cúchullain t/ c 16:47, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
FYI, there's a request to create a new task force at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/African-American task force -- 67.70.33.184 ( talk) 05:07, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
I'm writing, as the point I would like to make is about a discrepancy; which is that Obama was not 'the first black U.S. president, as it is mistakenly written in the section /info/en/?search=African_Americans#Social_issues and on the wikipedia page for Obama. Obama is mixed race i.e. mother is completely white, and father is completely black. This does not make him the first black u.s. president as he is the first b&w bi-racial U.S. president However, his wife, was certainly the first black first lady as her heritage is mainly of black descent.
thank you. looking forward to seeing the changes made to all of the wikipedia texts incorrectly referring to Obama as the first black U.S. president. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Streykatt (
talk •
contribs)
20:08, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
"The phrase generally refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States." - It occurs to me as read the above, that in light of the definition in the opening paragraph, technically, Barak Obama is not African-American either (none of his ancestors were slaves in the USA). He is half-African and half-American, by heritage, I suppose. (The article makes clear that nearly all African-Americans are "mixed-race", so he as much "the first black U.S. president" as any other, especially since he identifies as Black as his ethnicity.)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect African Americans in Missouri. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 23:03, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
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I think you should possibly consider adding a section that at least mentions this term "African American" being used as a blanket term for all black people could potentially be considered offensive to those who are black or African, but not American.
Likewise the inference that the only "true blacks" are the descendants of former slaves, which could equally be considered offensive to those not included in that group and also not from the designated geographic region.
Plus the lack of recognition that some descendants of former slaves may have long ago left the American continent, that not all slaves in the United States were of African descent, and so on. Also that not all Africans are black. In fact not even all "blacks" are black. Most of those living in the US don't even come close to being genuinely black (in the chromatic sense).
หมีขั้วโลก ( talk) 20:37, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
... may be unaware that "Africa" and "South Africa" are not the same. @ Flyer22 Reborn: -- Prisencolin ( talk) 23:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Second sentence in this article:"The phrase generally refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States.[7][8][9]"
Last sentence in the lead section. In 2008, Barack Obama became the first African American to be elected President of the United States.[18]
Obama is not a descendant of an enslaved black person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.148.77.6 ( talk • contribs)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Brown Americans. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. feminist ( talk) 16:12, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
We've got an interesting issue here. ADOS sees African Americans (why no hyphen?) who are descended from slaves as deserving their own racial classification. This explains the request above about Obama. As a consequence, we are now getting good faith editors such as User:ADOS MMXX removing some black Americans from African American categories. I think this needs discussion and I'm not sure where. There are three wikiprojects that are relevant for instance, but I don't think we want multiple discussions. Doug Weller talk 10:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
Can someone add the following under terminology, second to last paragraph where the citation needed tag is:
Thanks. 2A02:C7F:AC31:400:307D:53C6:BA64:BFE5 ( talk) 13:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
African Americans (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans)[4] should be changed with the addition of the other social construct of "Negro" and "Colored" These are period terms that are found on government documents. a possible edit would be this African Americans (also referred to as Negro, Colored, Black Americans or Afro-Americans)[4] Resmooth ( talk) 15:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
It should mentioned in the article.
https://philpapers.org/rec/MUDFTG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.43.26.36 ( talk) 20:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
While reading this article it felt like two distinct subjects which might be worth separate pages. African Americans and African-American history. The second article already exists. Given that the second half of the "African Americans" is part of the history of African Americans (it is even called History) should this part be merged into "African-American history". Just a idea - please comment. Mtpaley ( talk) 23:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
"The next most frequent Y-DNA haplogroup observed among African Americans is the R1b clade, which around 15% of African Americans carry. This lineage is most common today among Northwestern European males." And the Chadic speakers of Northern Nigeria and Cameroon, where it locally is high as 95%. [ (R-V88)] 83.84.100.133 ( talk) 14:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Ethnicity is a cultural thing, it cannot be used to cover a group that race is a core component of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.131.193.6 ( talk) 21:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Add Mexicans to the article. https://www.history.com/news/the-brutal-history-of-anti-latino-discrimination-in-america — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.43.26.36 ( talk) 20:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Alanscottwalker, as seen in the #Obama again section above, we recently debated the sentence you added to. Consensus in that discussion seems to be that leaving that sentence as it was is best. You added "even while some recent immigrants or their children may come to identify as African American or may identify differently." I'm not sure how I feel about this addition, except that I'm not keen on the fact that it's supported by a media source rather than an academic source and that, per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, it should be covered lower in the article if it's to be in the lead. I'm not sure that it's WP:Due for the lead.
Pinging Doug Weller, Cullen328 and B Simone77 for their thoughts. No need to ping me when replying. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 07:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Indy beetle, regarding this, the Harris aspect should be mentioned somewhere lower in the article. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 06:56, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
Geographyinitiative, regarding this and this? We need to be sticking to what the sources state and with WP:Due weight, not changing the definition because you think it excludes Obama. Various reliable sources refer to Obama as African American. That is why his Wikipedia article does. See the FAQ at the top of Talk:Barack Obama. Also, as seen in the archives, Obama has been discussed enough on this talk page. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 03:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
And that second sentence does state "generally", not "always." Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 03:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@
Doug Weller,
Flyer22 Frozen, and
HiLo48: Okay, let's start over.
US Census
US Census: One race - White 234,904,818 Black or African American 40,916,113
US Census Race alone or in combination with one or more other races - White 243,832,540 Black or African American 45,109,521
English Wikipedia:
White Americans 243,832,540
African Americans 40,916,113
Question: Is or was there a specific rationale for using 'one race' figures for the African American population total and using the 'combination' figures for White American population total?
How can the 45 mil figure be added on this Wikipedia page and the 234 mil figure be added on that Wikipedia page? I have made edits attempting to do this.
[5]
[6] This is clearly a problem; let's solve this first.
Geographyinitiative (
talk)
06:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Geographyinitiative, what leads you to conclude that the definition put forth by U.S. Census Bureau is definitive in this matter? Wikipedia articles should summarize what the full range of the highest quality reliable sources say about the topic. Definitions by academics who specialize in African-American identity should be preferred over definitions by government bureaucrats who are obligated to finish their census job in 2020 and will never rethink their definition in July of this year. Academics, on the other hand, are rethinking and re-evaluating constantly, without regards to a ten year schedule. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
The definition as provided accidentally excluded enslaved black people themselves from the African American definition. I attempted to reword it per the demographics section in the article, which says there were 4.4 mil African Americans in 1860 if I am reading correctly. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 12:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
From reading the notes above, maybe you should ask African Americans - specifically DACS (if you don't know the anacronym, then you really shouldn't be editing this wikipedia) to help. In the case of Obama his is widely known as the first Black President. Techically he is not 'African-American' - he is biracial Kenyan American. To say he is African American is just plain wrong. He is black though, and this still important. But his ancestors were not victims of American chattel slavery, nor did they survive Jim Crow, or have the civil rights struggle or the 1950s/60s. His father was an immigrant - and these are very different experiences with deeply significant implications and importance. Globalsista ( talk) 16:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add Shirley Chisholm entered the U.S. House of Representatives in 1969 as the first African American woman in either chamber of Congress.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1805:CA4C:58BD:6428:3848:2EC0 ( talk) 06:31, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
There should be a separate page for Black Americans just like there is for White Americans. Not all Black Americans identify as being African just like not all White Americans identify as being European. This doesn't make sense — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeminoleNation ( talk • contribs)
There are two errors in the article.
1. Reference #10 is inaccurate. Black and African-American are not synonyms. Black is a race, African-American is an ethnicity.
2. At the very bottom of the page, President Obama is listed as African-American. He is not African-American, an ethnicity which is a very unique experience. President Obama is Kenyan-American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snoopyandramen ( talk • contribs) 07:05, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Between 2012 and 2018, English Wikipedia had an article about the world's oldest African-American, Matthew Beard (the fourth-oldest man in the world: Oldest people#Oldest men). In the aftermath of this 2018 WP:AfD discussion, the article was redirected to List of the verified oldest people#100 verified oldest men, thus making all of Mathew Beard's biographical details contained in the article itself inaccessible to almost all users.
The first three men on the List of the verified oldest people#100 verified oldest men ( Jiroemon Kimura, Christian Mortensen and Emiliano Mercado del Toro) have articles, as well as the fifth man ( Walter Breuning). However, the fourth man, Mathew Beard, the world's oldest African-American, despite having entries in Arabic Wikipedia, Japanese Wikipedia, Polish Wikipedia, Portuguese Wikipedia, Russian Wikipedia, Simple English Wikipedia, Serbian Wikipedia, Swedish Wikipedia and Ukrainian Wikipedia, no longer has an entry in English Wikipedia. I am curious as to whether there would be consensus for restoring his entry to English Wikipedia. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The Policing and criminal Justice section of this article is heavily biased. It says that 40 percent of people in US prison are African Americans, but does not say what percentage of crimes in the US are committed by this same population group. Also, "White women calling the police on black people also became a widely publicized issue in 2020" is not nearly significant enough to be included in a short summary of Policing and criminal Justice of African Americans, and it is very biased and stupid for it to be included. NorfolkIsland123 ( talk) 18:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm not denying this. The percentage of crimes committed by African Americans should be included with their percent representation in the prison system. Possible factors for this overrepresentation in crime, and prison population, such as the ones you talked about, should be included. In relation to "White women calling police on black men", I think we can both agree that this is nowhere near significant enough to be included in a short summary on African American policing and criminal justice. The whole section should be edited thoroughly to provide the appropriate information (Percentage of crimes committed by African Americans, percentage of prisoners who are African Americans, possible causes for these percentages.) NorfolkIsland123 ( talk) 13:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The term African American is outdated and is tone-deaf to the history of Black people in the States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mojijozzumm ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
The terminology is vague, and that should be pointed out.
There are other cases, for example, Are South Indians, or Polynesians "Black Americans"? I have a colleague that jokes he is African American -- he is Africaan.
There is a word that is correct, and until fairly recently had no negative connotations. I dare not write it down though.
This is a suggestion for an edit. I personally cannot be bothered to try to make it. If someone else does, then great. But you DO NOT revert edits to the Talk page because you disagree with them! Tuntable ( talk) 09:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I've run in to some people on Twitter who say that "blacks", lower-case is an insult because it doesn't include "people". Should all instances of "blacks" in the article be replaced with "Black people"? Is there a strong consensus on this in the African American community, or is it just some vocal people on Twitter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:CC12:0:E8CE:E6E4:D343:FC06 ( talk) 22:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Kamala is not African American. She is Jamaican (Black) & South Asian. Please correct. Moonshadow52 ( talk) 01:14, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term. -- Euryalus ( talk) 07:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
This term African American is specifically used to identify the ethic group of black people who are the descendants of the ensalved black people who have been in the United States for over 400 years with a specific culture and history.
Kamala Harris does not belong to that ancestry she is of Jamaican and Indian ancestry which ties her to a specific cultures and histories, which is different from African Americans.
If Kamala Harris can identify as an African American then how do you distinguish the people who are the decandants of black people who have been in the United States predating the 13 colonies?
Can African American's move to Jamaica and because they are black too, identify themselves as Jamaican, or would they be an African American immigrant living in Jamaica? If they did identify themselves as Jamaican wouldn't that be a misrepresentation of thier cultural and historical background and offensive to the local Jamacians who have generations of ancestry and history in Jamaica? Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:10, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
@
ItsLife1: I don't doubt that ADOS is notable as a movement. But still your edit has two problems: The NYT source doesn't even mention "Foundational Black Americans", and it calls ADOS a group of online agitators ... small in number, with active supporters estimated to be in the thousands
. That's not the description of an ethnic group. What you have to prove is that the ethnic group called "Foundational Black Americans" is notable enough to be included in the sidebar on the same level with groups like Afro-Brazilians. --
Rsk6400 (
talk)
17:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
Both ADOS and Foundational Black American is just another name for the ethic group of the descendants of the enslaved black people in the United States. I agree with this comment it is not simply a online group Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:48, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:57, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
The follow reads
Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved peoples within the boundaries of the present United States.[11][12] On average, African Americans are of West/Central African and European descent, and some also have Native American ancestry.[13] According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[14] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term.[8]
The following should read as
African Americans are the descendants of enslaved black people within the boundaries of the present United States.[11][12] On average, African Americans are of West/Central African and European descent, and some also have Native American ancestry.[13] According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[14] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may not also self-identify with the term.[8]
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Healthyliving21 ( talk) 13:04, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
It currently reads On November 4, 2008, Democratic Senator Barack Obama defeated Republican Senator John McCain to become the first African American to be elected president.
It should read:
On November 4, 2008, Democratic Senator Barack Obama defeated Republican Senator John McCain to become the first biracial Kenyan American to be elected president.
Black American and African American (also including ADOS, American Descendants of Slavery, as well as Foundational Black American). are specific terms created to identify a specific ethnic group of the Decedent's of the enslaved black people who were sold and/or captured and forcibly displaced from mostly west and central Africa to the United States of America whose history, ethinicty and culture predates the 13 colonies.
It is inaccurate, misleading, and disrespectful, to cross a ethnic boundry to label or self identify black immigrants and/or their descendants who voluntarily migrated to the United States with any one of these these terms; Black American, African American (also including ADOS, American Decedent's of Slavery, as well as Foundational Black Americans
Black people globally share a racial background, however their are various ethnic groups and tribes across the world with different histories, values, and cultures. These differences are not a bad thing, however ethinic and cultural boundries must be respected. Healthyliving21 ( talk) 13:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
We need to clean up this insanity. African-American is not a race. You can pretend it also refers to an ethnic/cultural group, but it obviously refers to a birthplace-residency group, like all hyphenated continent words. African-Americans can be any race. Black Americans are black. African-American means born in Africa, resident of America. American-African means born in America, resident of Africa. White Americans are not European Americans, just as black Americans are not African Americans. Thewikipediaeditorguy ( talk) 16:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
African American is a unique term created for the descendants of the enslaved black people in the United States of America. The African part of African American is accurate considering the unique circumstances in which this ethnic group was created, African American ancestors were caprured from various tribes and ethnic groups mostly across the western and central parts of the continents of Africa.
There is not one specific country or tribe that all African Americans can trace there ancestry back to, the descend from various tribes and it various on which tribes based on the individual.
It is not accurate for Modern day black immigrants from over 54 specific countries in Africa from a specific ethic group and/or tribe to identify themselves as African American because they are not of the same history and culture of African American's who are the descendants of the enslaved balck people in the United States which predates the 13 colonies.
Modern day black immigrants from the continent of Africa can identify with the specific country they come from such as Gambian American, Ghanaian American, Nigerian American, Ethiopian American, etc.. just the way all other modern day immigrants groups do i.e. Chinese American, Mexican American, Italian American etc... Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
Agree. There's a reason we don't refer to white americans as "European American" because it implies that they're from Europe, which they're not (atleast in the typical usage of "from Europe"). I mean sure, both white and black Americans have ancestral routes in those continents but most are so many generations removed that it doesn't matter. Also, the page for Black Canadians is Black Canadians not African Canadians for this very reason. Colin dm ( talk) 21:52, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Mechanical Keyboarder: I undid your recent changes for the following reasons:
The use of "Black" / "black" and "White" / "white" in this article is not consistent. I suggest we discuss at Talk:Slavery_in_the_United_States#Capitalization_of_"Black"_and_"White" where a discussion has started some hours ago. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:00, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
The capitalization is dependent on context, but generally Black should be capitalized (because being Black encompasses a culture, and identity, etc.) and white should be lowercase. Jezamae ( talk) 23:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Discussion started by a now-blocked sockpuppet |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Why "Non-Hispanic" instead of "Non-Latino"? Brazilians arent hispanic, but they are latino L1948L ( talk) 03:03, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:African-American culture § Requested move 23 June 2021. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 18:25, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
I placed a banner in the Economic status section to draw attention to the outdated information. this is a lot of data to replace and any help updating this section is greatly appreciated. Robjwev ( talk) 14:16, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
So, US President Barack Obama is not African-American.
Did anyone inform him?
172.56.23.219 ( talk) 20:03, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should this article have this lead image? Kolya Butternut ( talk) 16:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Linda Keita has repeatedly changed the population numbers without updating the source. If they're accurate, they can be included with an updated source (I couldn't find a reliable source that confirms the numbers but someone else may have better luck). In the mean time, please stop changing the numbers without changing the cited source.-- Cúchullain t/ c 16:47, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
FYI, there's a request to create a new task force at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/African-American task force -- 67.70.33.184 ( talk) 05:07, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
I'm writing, as the point I would like to make is about a discrepancy; which is that Obama was not 'the first black U.S. president, as it is mistakenly written in the section /info/en/?search=African_Americans#Social_issues and on the wikipedia page for Obama. Obama is mixed race i.e. mother is completely white, and father is completely black. This does not make him the first black u.s. president as he is the first b&w bi-racial U.S. president However, his wife, was certainly the first black first lady as her heritage is mainly of black descent.
thank you. looking forward to seeing the changes made to all of the wikipedia texts incorrectly referring to Obama as the first black U.S. president. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Streykatt (
talk •
contribs)
20:08, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
"The phrase generally refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States." - It occurs to me as read the above, that in light of the definition in the opening paragraph, technically, Barak Obama is not African-American either (none of his ancestors were slaves in the USA). He is half-African and half-American, by heritage, I suppose. (The article makes clear that nearly all African-Americans are "mixed-race", so he as much "the first black U.S. president" as any other, especially since he identifies as Black as his ethnicity.)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect African Americans in Missouri. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 23:03, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
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I think you should possibly consider adding a section that at least mentions this term "African American" being used as a blanket term for all black people could potentially be considered offensive to those who are black or African, but not American.
Likewise the inference that the only "true blacks" are the descendants of former slaves, which could equally be considered offensive to those not included in that group and also not from the designated geographic region.
Plus the lack of recognition that some descendants of former slaves may have long ago left the American continent, that not all slaves in the United States were of African descent, and so on. Also that not all Africans are black. In fact not even all "blacks" are black. Most of those living in the US don't even come close to being genuinely black (in the chromatic sense).
หมีขั้วโลก ( talk) 20:37, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
... may be unaware that "Africa" and "South Africa" are not the same. @ Flyer22 Reborn: -- Prisencolin ( talk) 23:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Second sentence in this article:"The phrase generally refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States.[7][8][9]"
Last sentence in the lead section. In 2008, Barack Obama became the first African American to be elected President of the United States.[18]
Obama is not a descendant of an enslaved black person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.148.77.6 ( talk • contribs)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Brown Americans. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. feminist ( talk) 16:12, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
We've got an interesting issue here. ADOS sees African Americans (why no hyphen?) who are descended from slaves as deserving their own racial classification. This explains the request above about Obama. As a consequence, we are now getting good faith editors such as User:ADOS MMXX removing some black Americans from African American categories. I think this needs discussion and I'm not sure where. There are three wikiprojects that are relevant for instance, but I don't think we want multiple discussions. Doug Weller talk 10:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
Can someone add the following under terminology, second to last paragraph where the citation needed tag is:
Thanks. 2A02:C7F:AC31:400:307D:53C6:BA64:BFE5 ( talk) 13:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
African Americans (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans)[4] should be changed with the addition of the other social construct of "Negro" and "Colored" These are period terms that are found on government documents. a possible edit would be this African Americans (also referred to as Negro, Colored, Black Americans or Afro-Americans)[4] Resmooth ( talk) 15:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
It should mentioned in the article.
https://philpapers.org/rec/MUDFTG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.43.26.36 ( talk) 20:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
While reading this article it felt like two distinct subjects which might be worth separate pages. African Americans and African-American history. The second article already exists. Given that the second half of the "African Americans" is part of the history of African Americans (it is even called History) should this part be merged into "African-American history". Just a idea - please comment. Mtpaley ( talk) 23:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
"The next most frequent Y-DNA haplogroup observed among African Americans is the R1b clade, which around 15% of African Americans carry. This lineage is most common today among Northwestern European males." And the Chadic speakers of Northern Nigeria and Cameroon, where it locally is high as 95%. [ (R-V88)] 83.84.100.133 ( talk) 14:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Ethnicity is a cultural thing, it cannot be used to cover a group that race is a core component of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.131.193.6 ( talk) 21:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Add Mexicans to the article. https://www.history.com/news/the-brutal-history-of-anti-latino-discrimination-in-america — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.43.26.36 ( talk) 20:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Alanscottwalker, as seen in the #Obama again section above, we recently debated the sentence you added to. Consensus in that discussion seems to be that leaving that sentence as it was is best. You added "even while some recent immigrants or their children may come to identify as African American or may identify differently." I'm not sure how I feel about this addition, except that I'm not keen on the fact that it's supported by a media source rather than an academic source and that, per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, it should be covered lower in the article if it's to be in the lead. I'm not sure that it's WP:Due for the lead.
Pinging Doug Weller, Cullen328 and B Simone77 for their thoughts. No need to ping me when replying. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 07:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Indy beetle, regarding this, the Harris aspect should be mentioned somewhere lower in the article. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 06:56, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
Geographyinitiative, regarding this and this? We need to be sticking to what the sources state and with WP:Due weight, not changing the definition because you think it excludes Obama. Various reliable sources refer to Obama as African American. That is why his Wikipedia article does. See the FAQ at the top of Talk:Barack Obama. Also, as seen in the archives, Obama has been discussed enough on this talk page. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 03:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
And that second sentence does state "generally", not "always." Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 03:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@
Doug Weller,
Flyer22 Frozen, and
HiLo48: Okay, let's start over.
US Census
US Census: One race - White 234,904,818 Black or African American 40,916,113
US Census Race alone or in combination with one or more other races - White 243,832,540 Black or African American 45,109,521
English Wikipedia:
White Americans 243,832,540
African Americans 40,916,113
Question: Is or was there a specific rationale for using 'one race' figures for the African American population total and using the 'combination' figures for White American population total?
How can the 45 mil figure be added on this Wikipedia page and the 234 mil figure be added on that Wikipedia page? I have made edits attempting to do this.
[5]
[6] This is clearly a problem; let's solve this first.
Geographyinitiative (
talk)
06:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Geographyinitiative, what leads you to conclude that the definition put forth by U.S. Census Bureau is definitive in this matter? Wikipedia articles should summarize what the full range of the highest quality reliable sources say about the topic. Definitions by academics who specialize in African-American identity should be preferred over definitions by government bureaucrats who are obligated to finish their census job in 2020 and will never rethink their definition in July of this year. Academics, on the other hand, are rethinking and re-evaluating constantly, without regards to a ten year schedule. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
The definition as provided accidentally excluded enslaved black people themselves from the African American definition. I attempted to reword it per the demographics section in the article, which says there were 4.4 mil African Americans in 1860 if I am reading correctly. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 12:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
From reading the notes above, maybe you should ask African Americans - specifically DACS (if you don't know the anacronym, then you really shouldn't be editing this wikipedia) to help. In the case of Obama his is widely known as the first Black President. Techically he is not 'African-American' - he is biracial Kenyan American. To say he is African American is just plain wrong. He is black though, and this still important. But his ancestors were not victims of American chattel slavery, nor did they survive Jim Crow, or have the civil rights struggle or the 1950s/60s. His father was an immigrant - and these are very different experiences with deeply significant implications and importance. Globalsista ( talk) 16:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add Shirley Chisholm entered the U.S. House of Representatives in 1969 as the first African American woman in either chamber of Congress.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1805:CA4C:58BD:6428:3848:2EC0 ( talk) 06:31, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
There should be a separate page for Black Americans just like there is for White Americans. Not all Black Americans identify as being African just like not all White Americans identify as being European. This doesn't make sense — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeminoleNation ( talk • contribs)
There are two errors in the article.
1. Reference #10 is inaccurate. Black and African-American are not synonyms. Black is a race, African-American is an ethnicity.
2. At the very bottom of the page, President Obama is listed as African-American. He is not African-American, an ethnicity which is a very unique experience. President Obama is Kenyan-American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snoopyandramen ( talk • contribs) 07:05, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Between 2012 and 2018, English Wikipedia had an article about the world's oldest African-American, Matthew Beard (the fourth-oldest man in the world: Oldest people#Oldest men). In the aftermath of this 2018 WP:AfD discussion, the article was redirected to List of the verified oldest people#100 verified oldest men, thus making all of Mathew Beard's biographical details contained in the article itself inaccessible to almost all users.
The first three men on the List of the verified oldest people#100 verified oldest men ( Jiroemon Kimura, Christian Mortensen and Emiliano Mercado del Toro) have articles, as well as the fifth man ( Walter Breuning). However, the fourth man, Mathew Beard, the world's oldest African-American, despite having entries in Arabic Wikipedia, Japanese Wikipedia, Polish Wikipedia, Portuguese Wikipedia, Russian Wikipedia, Simple English Wikipedia, Serbian Wikipedia, Swedish Wikipedia and Ukrainian Wikipedia, no longer has an entry in English Wikipedia. I am curious as to whether there would be consensus for restoring his entry to English Wikipedia. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The Policing and criminal Justice section of this article is heavily biased. It says that 40 percent of people in US prison are African Americans, but does not say what percentage of crimes in the US are committed by this same population group. Also, "White women calling the police on black people also became a widely publicized issue in 2020" is not nearly significant enough to be included in a short summary of Policing and criminal Justice of African Americans, and it is very biased and stupid for it to be included. NorfolkIsland123 ( talk) 18:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm not denying this. The percentage of crimes committed by African Americans should be included with their percent representation in the prison system. Possible factors for this overrepresentation in crime, and prison population, such as the ones you talked about, should be included. In relation to "White women calling police on black men", I think we can both agree that this is nowhere near significant enough to be included in a short summary on African American policing and criminal justice. The whole section should be edited thoroughly to provide the appropriate information (Percentage of crimes committed by African Americans, percentage of prisoners who are African Americans, possible causes for these percentages.) NorfolkIsland123 ( talk) 13:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The term African American is outdated and is tone-deaf to the history of Black people in the States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mojijozzumm ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
The terminology is vague, and that should be pointed out.
There are other cases, for example, Are South Indians, or Polynesians "Black Americans"? I have a colleague that jokes he is African American -- he is Africaan.
There is a word that is correct, and until fairly recently had no negative connotations. I dare not write it down though.
This is a suggestion for an edit. I personally cannot be bothered to try to make it. If someone else does, then great. But you DO NOT revert edits to the Talk page because you disagree with them! Tuntable ( talk) 09:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I've run in to some people on Twitter who say that "blacks", lower-case is an insult because it doesn't include "people". Should all instances of "blacks" in the article be replaced with "Black people"? Is there a strong consensus on this in the African American community, or is it just some vocal people on Twitter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:CC12:0:E8CE:E6E4:D343:FC06 ( talk) 22:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Kamala is not African American. She is Jamaican (Black) & South Asian. Please correct. Moonshadow52 ( talk) 01:14, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term. -- Euryalus ( talk) 07:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
This term African American is specifically used to identify the ethic group of black people who are the descendants of the ensalved black people who have been in the United States for over 400 years with a specific culture and history.
Kamala Harris does not belong to that ancestry she is of Jamaican and Indian ancestry which ties her to a specific cultures and histories, which is different from African Americans.
If Kamala Harris can identify as an African American then how do you distinguish the people who are the decandants of black people who have been in the United States predating the 13 colonies?
Can African American's move to Jamaica and because they are black too, identify themselves as Jamaican, or would they be an African American immigrant living in Jamaica? If they did identify themselves as Jamaican wouldn't that be a misrepresentation of thier cultural and historical background and offensive to the local Jamacians who have generations of ancestry and history in Jamaica? Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:10, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
@
ItsLife1: I don't doubt that ADOS is notable as a movement. But still your edit has two problems: The NYT source doesn't even mention "Foundational Black Americans", and it calls ADOS a group of online agitators ... small in number, with active supporters estimated to be in the thousands
. That's not the description of an ethnic group. What you have to prove is that the ethnic group called "Foundational Black Americans" is notable enough to be included in the sidebar on the same level with groups like Afro-Brazilians. --
Rsk6400 (
talk)
17:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
Both ADOS and Foundational Black American is just another name for the ethic group of the descendants of the enslaved black people in the United States. I agree with this comment it is not simply a online group Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:48, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:57, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
The follow reads
Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved peoples within the boundaries of the present United States.[11][12] On average, African Americans are of West/Central African and European descent, and some also have Native American ancestry.[13] According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[14] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term.[8]
The following should read as
African Americans are the descendants of enslaved black people within the boundaries of the present United States.[11][12] On average, African Americans are of West/Central African and European descent, and some also have Native American ancestry.[13] According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[14] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American, and South American nations and their descendants may not also self-identify with the term.[8]
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Healthyliving21 ( talk) 13:04, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
It currently reads On November 4, 2008, Democratic Senator Barack Obama defeated Republican Senator John McCain to become the first African American to be elected president.
It should read:
On November 4, 2008, Democratic Senator Barack Obama defeated Republican Senator John McCain to become the first biracial Kenyan American to be elected president.
Black American and African American (also including ADOS, American Descendants of Slavery, as well as Foundational Black American). are specific terms created to identify a specific ethnic group of the Decedent's of the enslaved black people who were sold and/or captured and forcibly displaced from mostly west and central Africa to the United States of America whose history, ethinicty and culture predates the 13 colonies.
It is inaccurate, misleading, and disrespectful, to cross a ethnic boundry to label or self identify black immigrants and/or their descendants who voluntarily migrated to the United States with any one of these these terms; Black American, African American (also including ADOS, American Decedent's of Slavery, as well as Foundational Black Americans
Black people globally share a racial background, however their are various ethnic groups and tribes across the world with different histories, values, and cultures. These differences are not a bad thing, however ethinic and cultural boundries must be respected. Healthyliving21 ( talk) 13:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
We need to clean up this insanity. African-American is not a race. You can pretend it also refers to an ethnic/cultural group, but it obviously refers to a birthplace-residency group, like all hyphenated continent words. African-Americans can be any race. Black Americans are black. African-American means born in Africa, resident of America. American-African means born in America, resident of Africa. White Americans are not European Americans, just as black Americans are not African Americans. Thewikipediaeditorguy ( talk) 16:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
African American is a unique term created for the descendants of the enslaved black people in the United States of America. The African part of African American is accurate considering the unique circumstances in which this ethnic group was created, African American ancestors were caprured from various tribes and ethnic groups mostly across the western and central parts of the continents of Africa.
There is not one specific country or tribe that all African Americans can trace there ancestry back to, the descend from various tribes and it various on which tribes based on the individual.
It is not accurate for Modern day black immigrants from over 54 specific countries in Africa from a specific ethic group and/or tribe to identify themselves as African American because they are not of the same history and culture of African American's who are the descendants of the enslaved balck people in the United States which predates the 13 colonies.
Modern day black immigrants from the continent of Africa can identify with the specific country they come from such as Gambian American, Ghanaian American, Nigerian American, Ethiopian American, etc.. just the way all other modern day immigrants groups do i.e. Chinese American, Mexican American, Italian American etc... Healthyliving21 ( talk) 12:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
Agree. There's a reason we don't refer to white americans as "European American" because it implies that they're from Europe, which they're not (atleast in the typical usage of "from Europe"). I mean sure, both white and black Americans have ancestral routes in those continents but most are so many generations removed that it doesn't matter. Also, the page for Black Canadians is Black Canadians not African Canadians for this very reason. Colin dm ( talk) 21:52, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Mechanical Keyboarder: I undid your recent changes for the following reasons:
The use of "Black" / "black" and "White" / "white" in this article is not consistent. I suggest we discuss at Talk:Slavery_in_the_United_States#Capitalization_of_"Black"_and_"White" where a discussion has started some hours ago. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:00, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
The capitalization is dependent on context, but generally Black should be capitalized (because being Black encompasses a culture, and identity, etc.) and white should be lowercase. Jezamae ( talk) 23:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Discussion started by a now-blocked sockpuppet |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Why "Non-Hispanic" instead of "Non-Latino"? Brazilians arent hispanic, but they are latino L1948L ( talk) 03:03, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:African-American culture § Requested move 23 June 2021. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 18:25, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
I placed a banner in the Economic status section to draw attention to the outdated information. this is a lot of data to replace and any help updating this section is greatly appreciated. Robjwev ( talk) 14:16, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
So, US President Barack Obama is not African-American.
Did anyone inform him?
172.56.23.219 ( talk) 20:03, 26 July 2021 (UTC)