This is the
talk page for discussing
WikiProject Islam and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
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WikiProject Islam was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 23 February 2009. |
And by that I mean all projects that are related to Islam in Wikipedia ( Template:Islam, Portal:Islam and WikiProject Islam) We need to use a unified icon for all of them.
And I think we should be using the crescent and star, because it doesn't matter if it was related with The Ottoman Empire, Greeks or any other nation, it is now the most popular icon for Islam in both Islamic countries AND especially across non-Muslim people to refer to Islam. And people of non-Muslim backgrounds and those who can't read Arabic or still learning it and the ones who are not familiar with Arabic alphabet and calligraphy would have it difficult for them to know that this word is Allah and it means God in Arabic and in this context it refers to the Muslim God only (although it used by all religions in the Arab World) and then realize that this article is about Islam. So, whether that this icon was popularized by Ottomans or not it is now the most recognizable icon for Islam across all nations. And moreover
some researchers say that it wasn't popularized by the Ottomans: How the quarter-crescent moon came to symbolize Islam is uncertain. Many explanations with varying degrees of plausibility have been offered. Among the most popular is the assertion that the symbol signifies the position ofthemoon and the planetVenus at dawn on 23 July 610 A.D., when the Prophet Mohammed received his initial revelation from God.
Cyril Glassé in his The New Encyclopedia of Islam (2001 edition, s.v. "Moon") states that "in the language of conventional symbols, the crescent and star have become the symbols of Islam as much as the cross is the symbol of Christianity." [1]
The word Allah simply means God in Arabic and it predates Islam. Those who claim that the word Allah is "inclusive of all Muslims", please provide your proof. All religions with all the sects believe in a God but that doesn't make the calligraphy of the word God a symbol of the said religion! Please support your claims with sources that prove that this word symbolize Islam! Is there any Islamic organizations that use it? No. But many Islamic organizations does use the crescent and star. Here's a few examples:
List of examples
|
---|
|
That's why I think the Star and Crescent is the most representative of Islam and I don't think that there's any Islamic sects that is against it and hence why it's the one that should be used. Thank you! ☆SuperNinja2☆ 12:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
And why we need a unified icon
Star and crescent do not represent any religion as a whole.
Also, In the English language, the word Allah generally refers to God in Islam.
Star and crescent can be symbol of a organization or as design of mosque.
Various calligraphies including calligraphy of the word Allah are also used in the mosque. So reason is not valid.
This can't be a reason to change all different images to one
According to who? Provide your sources: Burden of proof is on you, you are making claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
Allah is Arabic word, not English: I know, but it is English Wikipedia, even though ar:Template:Islam also use calligraphy of the word Allah.
did not provide a single reason to make Allah more reasonable to be used: I am against Star and crescent image, for other image we can also discuss, but if not Star and crescent then default is File:Allah3.svg
Burden of proof is on you, you are making claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
for other image we can also discussis not reasonable. So, why are you objecting the use of the crescent and star if you don't have a better alternative? How are we supposed to know that the said alternative is better than the crescent and star if we postpone the discussion if it? That is not rational. I already provided reliable sources and academic studies and researches but it's now clear enough for me that you didn't bother reading my argument. What a pity!
even though ar:Template:Islam also use calligraphy of the word Allah
And you haven't provide any Islamic sources which claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
that means it is used in Arabic context: What? See calligraphy of the word Allah as symbol or icon. To become familiar with the icon you need to know what it is.
you don't have a better alternative: I do have, leave it as it is.
it look more like a Original research
none of the cited sources are reliable except one
See calligraphy of the word Allah as symbol or icon. To become familiar with the icon you need to know what it is.
The crescent and star feature in the flags of many Islamic countries which were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire
The image you propose represent Ottoman Empire and Pakistan more than Islam.
Brandon University: [5] This article is about work on Stained Glass
Yale University: [6] states- certainly not in uniform use among Muslims
The crescent and star feature in the flags of many Islamic countries which were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire. Thus, in the language of conventional symbols, the crescent and star have become the symbols of Islam.
I do have, leave it as it is.
If a country's flag is used it does not mean that it represents any religion.
Do you know that is written on image of Template:Chinese Buddhism, but still it represent the religion.
I don't know much about Buddhism, so I can't give my opinion on this subject: Neither about Islam. It's not whataboutery, it's about Wikipedia consensus and common rule across site.
sectarian nature of religion...This may be a reason we should not impose a unified symbol across Wikipedia. This point regarding the unified symbol should be discussed first in any comments supporting this change. Why do we need it?
According to the discussion above:
☆SuperNinja2☆ 16:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Isaac has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster (chat!) 10:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
@ JorgeLaArdilla, QalasQalas, Idell, TheAafi, TheEagle107, Captain Assassin!, Wiki id2, Sa.vakilian, Ed Poor, Alarob, Imagine Wizard, Masum Ibn Musa, Resnjari, Ahendra, and Super ninja2:@ Cplakidas, Chongkian, Ratekreel, Ulubatli Hasan, Melofors, Hamza Ali Shah, MartinPoulter, GoldenBootWizard276, AvDahan, Ammarpad, Farhoudk, Svest~enwiki, Zereshk, LatinoMuslim, SFGiants, Chaos, Sulaimandaud, Zakksez, Absar, Darz kkg, Euryalus, AA, Leroy65X, Doc sameer, Peter Deer, Nafsadh, Razimantv Alt, Nasiryounus, Nawabmalhi, Masssly, Samee, MezzoMezzo, Arteyu, Owais Khursheed, Em-mustapha, Naila Khan, City of Silver, Johnbod, and Coalcity58: Can we arrange a Ramadan editathon to edit create, elaborate, correct, and translate Islamic articles? Arabic wikipedia is arranging it for 3 years 1, 2 and Bengali wikipedia for 5 years. So why not the English wikipedia? 202.134.9.145 ( talk) 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Ahendra, Sa.vakilian, Peaceray, Bduke, Steelpillow, Gog the Mild, 4meter4, GELongstreet, Utfor, Invasive Spices, Rytyho usa, Faendalimas, StarTrekker, Vanisaac, and Emir of Wikipedia:@ JorgeLaArdilla, QalasQalas, Idell, TheAafi, TheEagle107, Captain Assassin!, Wiki id2, Sa.vakilian, Ed Poor, Alarob, Imagine Wizard, Masum Ibn Musa, Resnjari, Ahendra, and Super ninja2:@ Cplakidas, Chongkian, Ratekreel, Ulubatli Hasan, Melofors, Hamza Ali Shah, MartinPoulter, GoldenBootWizard276, AvDahan, Ammarpad, Farhoudk, Svest~enwiki, Zereshk, LatinoMuslim, SFGiants, Chaos, Sulaimandaud, Zakksez, Absar, Darz kkg, Euryalus, AA, Leroy65X, Doc sameer, Peter Deer, Nafsadh, Razimantv Alt, Nasiryounus, Nawabmalhi, Masssly, Samee, MezzoMezzo, Arteyu, Owais Khursheed, Em-mustapha, Naila Khan, City of Silver, Johnbod, and Coalcity58: Please look over the last discussions about anti-Salafi edits in Talk:Sexuality in Islam. 202.134.9.145 ( talk) 18:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
An article in the scope of this Wikiproject is currently up for Featured Article review. Input is welcomed to decide if this article is worthy of the FA rating. MartinPoulter ( talk) 19:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Briefly, the dispute described
here is
1) whether this statement should be allowed in the lede
2) whether revivalist preacher
Abul A'la Maududi should be included along with two other scholars listed who support this position (i.e. belief in Jinn is a necessary part of Islam).
3) and whether as evidence of the significance of this belief, a brief description of the troubles of
Nasr Abu Zayd "who was
threated with death for apostasy" in the 1990s "(in part) because he didn't believe in jinn", should be included in the article. --
Louis P. Boog (
talk) 18:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Louis P. Boog (
talk) 18:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
References
User Manticore had repeatedly deleted sentences about Muslim growth projection in the past and in the futures based on Pew Research estimation. He obviously using different reason. Firstly he claimed it was of topic, then he claimed it was poorly written (it could targetted Non English speaker contributors) and he also claimed it was crystal ball which denied in wikipedia (but Pew Research estimation based on science not crystal ball and many wiki articles used it as sources). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.140.166.103 ( talk) 13:11, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Crusading movement has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Borsoka ( talk) 11:28, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian Strikes in Israel#Requested move 13 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 ( talk) 21:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian strikes in Israel#Requested move 14 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 ( talk) 19:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion concerning the question of religion and whether or not it is an appropriate subject for the Fringe Theories Noticeboard. Experienced editors are encouraged to join the conversation. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 19:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Biblical and Quranic narratives#Requested move 7 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 17:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Couple of week back @ Louis P. Boog had made brief input request on this discussion board but may be users missed during busy schedules last some weeks.
As a discussion facilitator I feel more inputs at Talk:Jinn would be helpful in the on going WP:Due discussions. Pl. do not give inputs here but at Talk:Jinn only.
Bookku ( talk) 02:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Since I posted the above notice about the Featured Article Candidacy of Empire of the Sultans, there has been more interest and the review process has progressed further, which I'm very grateful for. We still need more reviewers to take part, following the instructions at Wikipedia:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE. A great deal of work has gone into both the article and the review; this is a chance to make a community decision on the results. Thanks in advance for any help! MartinPoulter ( talk) 13:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Your input would be appreciated at Talk:Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz#Sources for the name Piruz Nahavandi. Summaries of the dispute and discussion thread may be found here. Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 15:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing
WikiProject Islam and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
Islam Project‑class | |||||||
|
WikiProject Islam was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 23 February 2009. |
To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam:
|
And by that I mean all projects that are related to Islam in Wikipedia ( Template:Islam, Portal:Islam and WikiProject Islam) We need to use a unified icon for all of them.
And I think we should be using the crescent and star, because it doesn't matter if it was related with The Ottoman Empire, Greeks or any other nation, it is now the most popular icon for Islam in both Islamic countries AND especially across non-Muslim people to refer to Islam. And people of non-Muslim backgrounds and those who can't read Arabic or still learning it and the ones who are not familiar with Arabic alphabet and calligraphy would have it difficult for them to know that this word is Allah and it means God in Arabic and in this context it refers to the Muslim God only (although it used by all religions in the Arab World) and then realize that this article is about Islam. So, whether that this icon was popularized by Ottomans or not it is now the most recognizable icon for Islam across all nations. And moreover
some researchers say that it wasn't popularized by the Ottomans: How the quarter-crescent moon came to symbolize Islam is uncertain. Many explanations with varying degrees of plausibility have been offered. Among the most popular is the assertion that the symbol signifies the position ofthemoon and the planetVenus at dawn on 23 July 610 A.D., when the Prophet Mohammed received his initial revelation from God.
Cyril Glassé in his The New Encyclopedia of Islam (2001 edition, s.v. "Moon") states that "in the language of conventional symbols, the crescent and star have become the symbols of Islam as much as the cross is the symbol of Christianity." [1]
The word Allah simply means God in Arabic and it predates Islam. Those who claim that the word Allah is "inclusive of all Muslims", please provide your proof. All religions with all the sects believe in a God but that doesn't make the calligraphy of the word God a symbol of the said religion! Please support your claims with sources that prove that this word symbolize Islam! Is there any Islamic organizations that use it? No. But many Islamic organizations does use the crescent and star. Here's a few examples:
List of examples
|
---|
|
That's why I think the Star and Crescent is the most representative of Islam and I don't think that there's any Islamic sects that is against it and hence why it's the one that should be used. Thank you! ☆SuperNinja2☆ 12:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
And why we need a unified icon
Star and crescent do not represent any religion as a whole.
Also, In the English language, the word Allah generally refers to God in Islam.
Star and crescent can be symbol of a organization or as design of mosque.
Various calligraphies including calligraphy of the word Allah are also used in the mosque. So reason is not valid.
This can't be a reason to change all different images to one
According to who? Provide your sources: Burden of proof is on you, you are making claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
Allah is Arabic word, not English: I know, but it is English Wikipedia, even though ar:Template:Islam also use calligraphy of the word Allah.
did not provide a single reason to make Allah more reasonable to be used: I am against Star and crescent image, for other image we can also discuss, but if not Star and crescent then default is File:Allah3.svg
Burden of proof is on you, you are making claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
for other image we can also discussis not reasonable. So, why are you objecting the use of the crescent and star if you don't have a better alternative? How are we supposed to know that the said alternative is better than the crescent and star if we postpone the discussion if it? That is not rational. I already provided reliable sources and academic studies and researches but it's now clear enough for me that you didn't bother reading my argument. What a pity!
even though ar:Template:Islam also use calligraphy of the word Allah
And you haven't provide any Islamic sources which claim that Star and crescent is related to Islam.
that means it is used in Arabic context: What? See calligraphy of the word Allah as symbol or icon. To become familiar with the icon you need to know what it is.
you don't have a better alternative: I do have, leave it as it is.
it look more like a Original research
none of the cited sources are reliable except one
See calligraphy of the word Allah as symbol or icon. To become familiar with the icon you need to know what it is.
The crescent and star feature in the flags of many Islamic countries which were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire
The image you propose represent Ottoman Empire and Pakistan more than Islam.
Brandon University: [5] This article is about work on Stained Glass
Yale University: [6] states- certainly not in uniform use among Muslims
The crescent and star feature in the flags of many Islamic countries which were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire. Thus, in the language of conventional symbols, the crescent and star have become the symbols of Islam.
I do have, leave it as it is.
If a country's flag is used it does not mean that it represents any religion.
Do you know that is written on image of Template:Chinese Buddhism, but still it represent the religion.
I don't know much about Buddhism, so I can't give my opinion on this subject: Neither about Islam. It's not whataboutery, it's about Wikipedia consensus and common rule across site.
sectarian nature of religion...This may be a reason we should not impose a unified symbol across Wikipedia. This point regarding the unified symbol should be discussed first in any comments supporting this change. Why do we need it?
According to the discussion above:
☆SuperNinja2☆ 16:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Isaac has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster (chat!) 10:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
@ JorgeLaArdilla, QalasQalas, Idell, TheAafi, TheEagle107, Captain Assassin!, Wiki id2, Sa.vakilian, Ed Poor, Alarob, Imagine Wizard, Masum Ibn Musa, Resnjari, Ahendra, and Super ninja2:@ Cplakidas, Chongkian, Ratekreel, Ulubatli Hasan, Melofors, Hamza Ali Shah, MartinPoulter, GoldenBootWizard276, AvDahan, Ammarpad, Farhoudk, Svest~enwiki, Zereshk, LatinoMuslim, SFGiants, Chaos, Sulaimandaud, Zakksez, Absar, Darz kkg, Euryalus, AA, Leroy65X, Doc sameer, Peter Deer, Nafsadh, Razimantv Alt, Nasiryounus, Nawabmalhi, Masssly, Samee, MezzoMezzo, Arteyu, Owais Khursheed, Em-mustapha, Naila Khan, City of Silver, Johnbod, and Coalcity58: Can we arrange a Ramadan editathon to edit create, elaborate, correct, and translate Islamic articles? Arabic wikipedia is arranging it for 3 years 1, 2 and Bengali wikipedia for 5 years. So why not the English wikipedia? 202.134.9.145 ( talk) 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Ahendra, Sa.vakilian, Peaceray, Bduke, Steelpillow, Gog the Mild, 4meter4, GELongstreet, Utfor, Invasive Spices, Rytyho usa, Faendalimas, StarTrekker, Vanisaac, and Emir of Wikipedia:@ JorgeLaArdilla, QalasQalas, Idell, TheAafi, TheEagle107, Captain Assassin!, Wiki id2, Sa.vakilian, Ed Poor, Alarob, Imagine Wizard, Masum Ibn Musa, Resnjari, Ahendra, and Super ninja2:@ Cplakidas, Chongkian, Ratekreel, Ulubatli Hasan, Melofors, Hamza Ali Shah, MartinPoulter, GoldenBootWizard276, AvDahan, Ammarpad, Farhoudk, Svest~enwiki, Zereshk, LatinoMuslim, SFGiants, Chaos, Sulaimandaud, Zakksez, Absar, Darz kkg, Euryalus, AA, Leroy65X, Doc sameer, Peter Deer, Nafsadh, Razimantv Alt, Nasiryounus, Nawabmalhi, Masssly, Samee, MezzoMezzo, Arteyu, Owais Khursheed, Em-mustapha, Naila Khan, City of Silver, Johnbod, and Coalcity58: Please look over the last discussions about anti-Salafi edits in Talk:Sexuality in Islam. 202.134.9.145 ( talk) 18:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
An article in the scope of this Wikiproject is currently up for Featured Article review. Input is welcomed to decide if this article is worthy of the FA rating. MartinPoulter ( talk) 19:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Briefly, the dispute described
here is
1) whether this statement should be allowed in the lede
2) whether revivalist preacher
Abul A'la Maududi should be included along with two other scholars listed who support this position (i.e. belief in Jinn is a necessary part of Islam).
3) and whether as evidence of the significance of this belief, a brief description of the troubles of
Nasr Abu Zayd "who was
threated with death for apostasy" in the 1990s "(in part) because he didn't believe in jinn", should be included in the article. --
Louis P. Boog (
talk) 18:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Louis P. Boog (
talk) 18:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
References
User Manticore had repeatedly deleted sentences about Muslim growth projection in the past and in the futures based on Pew Research estimation. He obviously using different reason. Firstly he claimed it was of topic, then he claimed it was poorly written (it could targetted Non English speaker contributors) and he also claimed it was crystal ball which denied in wikipedia (but Pew Research estimation based on science not crystal ball and many wiki articles used it as sources). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.140.166.103 ( talk) 13:11, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Crusading movement has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Borsoka ( talk) 11:28, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian Strikes in Israel#Requested move 13 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 ( talk) 21:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian strikes in Israel#Requested move 14 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 ( talk) 19:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion concerning the question of religion and whether or not it is an appropriate subject for the Fringe Theories Noticeboard. Experienced editors are encouraged to join the conversation. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 19:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Biblical and Quranic narratives#Requested move 7 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 17:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Couple of week back @ Louis P. Boog had made brief input request on this discussion board but may be users missed during busy schedules last some weeks.
As a discussion facilitator I feel more inputs at Talk:Jinn would be helpful in the on going WP:Due discussions. Pl. do not give inputs here but at Talk:Jinn only.
Bookku ( talk) 02:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Since I posted the above notice about the Featured Article Candidacy of Empire of the Sultans, there has been more interest and the review process has progressed further, which I'm very grateful for. We still need more reviewers to take part, following the instructions at Wikipedia:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE. A great deal of work has gone into both the article and the review; this is a chance to make a community decision on the results. Thanks in advance for any help! MartinPoulter ( talk) 13:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Your input would be appreciated at Talk:Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz#Sources for the name Piruz Nahavandi. Summaries of the dispute and discussion thread may be found here. Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 15:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)