This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Somebody has deleted all the "Suspected sockpuppet of X" and "Sockpuppets of X" categories without redirecting them; therefore, it has created a WP-wide systemic issue - all the lists of socks of a given user are gone, and the lists are important to show patterns of behavior for persistent vandals. Could this either be a) reversed, or b) wildcard redirected in all instances?
I forone think that something as important as this should have been communicated to the entire community. I personally was unaware of anything happening until it was too late. MSJapan 22:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I thought I followed the directions, but Category:Ophthalmologic inflammations doesn't show up here. It does show up at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 5, though. Could someone check my work, please. Thanks! - AED 01:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I have created a template, {{ Deletedcategory}} and a category, Category:Protected deleted categories, to protect categories which are deleted as being too ambiguous, point of view or unencyclopedic, and suffer recreation. The only problem I can see is that some people may still add the category to articles. I believe there are bots that run and remove categories which are redirected to other categories, and wonder if someone could add this category to their meanderings? Hiding Talk 21:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've deleted this page, as it hasn't been updated since February, and doesn't seem to have been used anywhere for a long time. It also wouldn't load due to its size (133 transcluded day pages!) — sjorford ++ 11:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, a user redesigned and repurposed this template, and I don't see any discussion about it. My understanding was that this template was only to be applied by an admin after a CFD discussion. The current wording now says the "page is being relocated by a WikiProject." Should the changes be reverted? - EurekaLott 15:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Orphan category, and I am not sure if it needs renaming (certainly) or just deletion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 06:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
What are we supposed to do about this? Somebody who's been around long enough to know better, failing to follow the standard procedures, created a sub=page, and then transcluded it.
Based on my understanding of the recent discussion over at Wikipedia talk:Categories for deletion/Working#Speedy moves, it appears that having the /Working transcluded may be confusing to some editors.
When I created it, I was following the "Holding cell" model of TfD. Only a few short months ago, there were far more TfD than CfD, but we were catching up in volume, our existing bot had stopped working, and we needed a bit of organization to help coordinate the hand-work.
Now, we have more activity than TfD, and are seeing nearly daily incorrect listings, listings in the wrong day, and (rare) listings directly in /Working.
Also, we had an earlier complaint about the floating box "Archive and Indices" up at the top. It doesn't always display correctly.
Noting that AfD has gone all the way to no transclusion, and just has a list of links to daily pages, I don't think we need to go that far (yet, and hopefully never).
I have some other ideas on how to make things cleaner and easier, but first I'd like a simple proposal, making it a bit easier to hand maintain the daily links (and perhaps easier for the bot reincarnation).
(I've checked, and there are no current or recent links to the old Cleanup overhead section heading, so it should be safe to eliminate.)
I've implemented it in incremental engineering fashion, moving the recent discussions box contents (see problems described at "Turning the tables" earlier) into a more standard list at the end of the page, and introduced a more consistent section naming:
5 Current discussions 5.1 Daily (transcluded) 5.2 Daily (transcluded) 5.3 Daily (transcluded) ... 6 Completed discussions Closing in progress (link) Recent discussions: * Daily (link) * Daily (link) * Daily (link) ... Archive and Indices (link)
Hi folks!
An editor has come to AfD to announce that s/he has finished work on Category:Wikipedia articles whose topics' importance is unclear. I think you people wanted it deleted when empty. If you'd like to check it over, I think it can be deleted. If it can, and you've not got an admin handy, drop me a line and I'll do it. ➨ ЯEDVERS 20:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the page has been renamed, can we brainstorm some ways to stimulate consensus through discussion rather than just having a poll. I'm thinking about a few things:
These are just a few ideas. Can we start a discussion?
As I was cleaning, I noticed a significant number of old nominations that were tagged months ago. In some cases, they were leftover from previous nominations (the closer forgot to remove them), or were not properly affixed (for example, adding {{ cfm}} to both categories, or {{ cfm}} to one and {{ mergeto}} or {{ mergefrom}} on the other).
However, I've found a large number where the template was added to the page, but never added to the daily discussion. Probably because the article space templates don't have that requirement.
I propose that we take a page from AfD and the new Deletion Review, and use {{ subst:cfd1}}, {{ subst:cfm1}}, and {{ subst:cfr1}}.
The revised templates could have a big "click here", and that would automagically add the {{ subst:cfd2}}, {{ subst:cfm2}}, and {{ subst:cfr2}} to the discussion page, using the &preload as was cleverly done at Deletion Review.
I'm going to play with {{ subst:cfm2}}, as it doesn't yet exist, to provide a working example. That will help make the discussion here more concrete, and provide testing before mucking with the others.
For posterity, I thought I should mention that my first attempted magic didn't work. Turns out that "§ion=new&preload=template:cfd2" will work (putting them at the bottom of the daily page rather than our current practice at the top), but I could not figure out how to preload the section subject/headline with the category or umbrella name. The &default= from the Inputbox extension didn't work for me, and I couldn't find any other documentation.
Besides, tradition here is to add them at the top of the page. So, my magic trick below was my somewhat less perfect solution to the problem.
OK, for my first successful magic trick, I added a NEW NOMINATIONS section at the top of each daily page, and changed THIS LINK on Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto (and the Cfd, Cfm, and Cfr templates) to "action=edit§ion=2". This should speed new listings and reduce edit conflicts on busy days, as the subst:cfd2 (or cfr2) into this tiny new section will always result in a new section just below itself.
Of course, this is something that could/should be removed after concluding each day. The (currently non-working) Templates for Deletion bot edits its previous day page after creating the current day page, and I'm sure we can handle the minor edit until we get a new bot, too.
However, as the THIS LINK edit is by day and section number, it won't hurt to leave them there until somebody gets around to it.
Can't this be hidden? It isn't an item for discussion, but it looks like one. As you know I removed it because I thought it was an error or vandalism. Osomec 04:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Template:Cfmf is nominated for deletion on TfD here: Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_2#Template:Cfmf. This is the category counterpart to the article template:mergefrom. I rather think it is useful, and should be kept. Ccccccccccc 07:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
template:oldcfd & template:oldcfd2 have gone up for deletion at WP:TFD. Shouldn't we actually be recording our discussions onto the category talk pages, as Articles for Deletion do? It would seem to be a rather importatnt process consideration. Ccccccccccc 08:03, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
It would be helpful for you to actually read the processes, before making comments upon them....
Template:Cfmf ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was proposed long ago by a new IP-only user, but never documented nor used over the past year.
There already exists a {{ cfdnotice}} for the rare instance where {{ cfm}} needs a "counterpart".
Likewise, {{ cfdend}} is the documented technique for recording decisions.
Thank you for your interest.
It seems as thought the "new IP-only" (exactly why "new"?) user created the first version of the CfD policy page as well, or atleast what the archive histories show.
Still, "oldcfd" is the intuitive counterpart to "oldafd" unless you're more active in the TfD process. So it should redirect to "cfdend" since "oldafd" and "oldvfd" are named in that manner.
As for cfdnotice - this is not a specific mergefrom notice. There probably should one one, or cfdnotice should be modified so that it can use a variable to decide which kind of text to display... such as a specific merge notice.
Ccccccccccc 10:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...and where's the consensus? -- kingboyk 09:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
ProveIt ( talk · contribs) has been innovating on the nominations, listing only the original template in the section heading on merging/renaming, instead of both templates. Then, the proposed merger starts immediately after the heading.
See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 1#Category:Buttonquails, and many others.
Under the current nomination format, when the target is changed during discussion, all the links to the section stop working.
I'd like to adopt the ProveIt innovation. Easy template changes, although probably not exactly the same resulting format.
How come when I type WP:CFD in the "go" box it opens the page in a new window? None of the other pages do this...I don't know if browser type is an issue here but I'm using Opera. Recury 03:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Not a nomination, but a question/discussion item:
In Category:People by ethnic or national descent, there are mostly sub-categories named 'People of Foo descent'. In Category:Emigrants by nationality, there are mostly sub-categories named 'Foo emigrants'. Looking down further into these sub-categories, they are both populated with sub-sub-categories named 'Foo Goo', where 'Foo' is the origin country and 'Goo' is the destination country. Examples: see Category:People of Canadian descent and Category:Canadian emigrants, having Category:Canadian Americans, Category:Canadian Australians, etc. Sometimes, in the matching sub-categories, the sub-sub-categories are the same; more often, there is partial or even no overlap.
Should there be either be categories named 'People of Foo descent' or 'Foo emigrants', but not both? Is there some naming decision somewhere that states what we should be using? Was the decision never implemented or, worse, partially implemented? What is happening here? Thanks Hmains 21:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
There seem to be a lot of unresolved CFDs from June 2006, for example, Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 28. Could an admin please close these? -- M @ r ē ino 22:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Can a technical adept fix it please. Chicheley 10:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
For the past few weeks (see #Clearer nomination process), I've been experimenting with subst'able templates that add the date automatically, among other things. I'm confident that they work reasonably well:
Unlike AfD, they do not result in massive subst'd template HTML CSS cruft all over the page. Instead, they just make our current templates with automated and sometimes fancier parameters than most folks seem to do by hand.
Since our process uses a 1 week period, after a week or so, everything should have moved painlessly to having a date, and a direct link to the daily page.
Warning: {{ subst:cfd}} without the 1 does not work well, it makes a horrid mess, much like {{ subst:afd}}. I've always disliked cleaning up after an AfD.
In short,
{{
cfd}}
, etc.{{
cfd}}
will continue to work as usual.{{
cfdu}}
will be deprecated.Any objections to making these the standard instructions at /Howto?
Hearing none, I've updated the instructions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto. I also cleaned up the language and display a bit.
I'm wondering if this page might not be better renamed to "categories for deletion". Every other page where rename/delete decisions are made, are called "Articles/templates/Images/whatevers for deletion", even if they involve discussion (as they always do).
Would it help users if CFD was renamed to standardize it too? FT2 ( Talk | email) 19:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I just noticed that Category:Categories for renaming is overloaded with old stuff that was actually kept. I just removed old CfD notices from Xyzian-Americans categories, now working on various companies based in US... but the category has more than 800 entries in it... Renata 03:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
hi, i listed this
and got a support comment. it's been 48 hrs, so now what? does an admin or bot make the change? thanks. J. Van Meter 11:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I had the same question as J. Van Meter above. Could you add a "part IV" to How to use this page that explains what happens once a CfD is made? Doesn't have to be long, e.g. "Once you have submitted a CfD, no further action is necessary on your part. The suggestion will be posted and votes will be made supporting or opposing the proposal. If the proposal is supported, an admin, automated bot, or combination of the two will make the necessary edits and ensure that the change is populated to all affected pages." Or whatever. Thanks! Bookgrrl 01:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
This page is now using Template:Year Month Day from day offset ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs), and should adjust to the next day without intervention.
Use the link at the top to purge the local cache for those times that an old version is stuck in an apache or squid cache. This has happened from time to time ever since the change to daily subpages, and is not related to this change.
I am still generating the daily pages by hand in advance, as the template is not subst'able. I've written code for Mediawiki to handle offsets, but it has not yet been accepted. http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6692 and http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6693.
I am still updating "Closing in progress" each day, and removing the previous day's NEW NOMINATIONS section.
Ah well, not my fault! I see that Splash ( talk · contribs) and then Freakofnurture ( talk · contribs) destroyed this page, too. Thanks to The Wub ( talk · contribs) and Syrthiss ( talk · contribs) for trying to fix it.
So we have agreement that we only want 7 days listed, with the recent 7 days listed below?
And what happened to Centralized discussion? That's been on this page as long as I can remember!
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#William Allen Simpson trying to make CFR a vote -- SPUI ( T - C) 01:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
SPUI's edit seems to have been vanquished, but I will reiterate what I have said elsewhere: The Cfd template is often useful for situations where "this category is rubbish, we need to rescope it or merge it into something else or just plain delete it (oh, and if you really do want to keep it, it still needs to be renamed)" that degenerating it into a keep vs delete thing (with all the horrid prospects of vote-counting) is not the wisest of ideas. TheGrappler 01:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the sorting this out. I've been reading and following those instructions for a long time but WP:CFD is definitely "Categories for discussion". Not all nominations are clear-cut. I don't want "delete" to appear at the front of all my comments automatically if what I am trying to see is "I have found a badly designed category, perhaps it should be merged somewhere though I honestly can't think where, or at the very least renamed (potentially to X, although that would involve a partial rescope) but unless somebody can think of something better to do with it, I'd suggest deleting". Similarly, it is disingenuous to stick on a "cfm" or "cfr" tag and end up with a deletion decision - I think if there is any ambiguity or chance foreseen that deletion will ensue, then cfd is the better tag. Applying cfr with the comment "Rename to Z but I wouldn't mind seeing this deleted", for instance, is bad form in my book. Therefore it makes sense to apply the cfd tag in instances of uncertainty. TheGrappler 02:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
(Copying my comment from ANI) Because of the vagaries of the category system, CFD tends to work in a very different way to the other deletion pages. There tend to be more complicated discussions, often involving blanket changes over several categories, and there are a wide range of possible outcomes. This is the reasoning behind the recent name change. However as far as I can tell these templates are intended for cases which the nominator believes can be resolved simply, and in those cases these templates are a time saving measure. This does NOT in any way prevent anyone else from suggesting alternatives, at any stage in the process. Nor does it prevent the nominator from using a more "customised" nomination message if it is felt appropriate. the wub "?!" 22:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we should go back to the old versions (pre July 23) without the extra data and to make clear what the nomination is for. The current rename is totally confusing. Having to search to find the target does not seem to be a good move. These are discussions and the results can be different then suggested, but that fact should not force us to use confusing nomination headings. Vegaswikian 02:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I have not been around this week (I'm rarely around on weekdays), and "Freakofnurture" trying to make CfD look more like TfD rather bolluxed my changes. I do find lc useful, as otherwise it takes several clicks to get to the category history. But since others don't want it, I'm removing it.
I left it on Deletion requests, where it doesn't seem to be in the way. I also tried to make the missing parameters more descriptive.
Reviewing today's nominations ( Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 26) I suddenly realised various votes and a section of the page was missing; I've just reinstated them. There may be other votes/sections still missing. Is something broken somewhere? Hoping it's not my sanity, David Kernow 00:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
A User has just removed an entire nomination: here. This is totally unacceptable behaviour. I request that an Admin reprimands them. -- Mais oui! 16:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Above has a CfD tag on it but I cannot find a related discussion. The page history has only one entry also which has me confused. Can anyone help? -- I@n 02:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Category:Preteen Wikipedians has been blanked. The userbox? Dead. Everyone on the list? Wiped. We had a contact system going, this is terrible. There is no explanation. Someone just wiped us. Tell us why! User:Wizkid357/Wiki Preteen and discussion page. Tell us. We want it back. We were effectavly gaining members and we're using the catagory to help recruit and gain contact with our preteens. I, for one, want it back. Thank you. Julz
Twice in the last two days, editors have made counterproposals to CFD nominations as separate CFD nominations. Yesterday, we had the dueling British female MPs nominations, which are now a total mess and will likely end in no consensus (and that may have been the intent of the second nomination). Today, in response to the British doctors merger nomination, another user made the reverse nomination. Splitting discussions this way only leads to confusion and increased difficulty for the closing admin. I don't think it's spelled out in the guidelines, but I think we should immediately close discussions of proposals that contradict other nominations as WP:POINT violations. Thoughts? - EurekaLott 14:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Some clever person recently moved this from deletion to discussion a while back, but failed to migrate the templates and how they link to subpages. That should be considered, if the name is to stick - Ste| vertigo 10:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I've just nominated Category:Actors that portrayed heroes or villains for deletion, and I think I followed the process outlined in this article. However, the output of the cfd1 template on the category page includes a link to add the discussion at the categories for deletion page. I hope I'm making myself clear; take a look at Category:Actors that portrayed heroes or villains and you'll see an "add entry" line, and a "maintenance" line above that, which don't appear to be necessary. Am I right in thinking this is out of sync with the instructions at WP:CFD? Seems too me the instructions should either say to delete the link in the template once you've created the discussion, or the link shouldn't be in the template in the first place as the instructions explain how to create the discussion. I'd also be glad of an explanation of the "Maintenance" line. Thanks for any help. Mike Christie 01:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
are ready to be deleted. They have been superceded by
{{
cfd|optional umbrella section|date yyyy Month dd}}
Yes, that was done long ago. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto at "If a group of similar categories, use an umbrella nomination:"
No, {{ subst:cfd1}} takes the optional umbrella parameter, and adds the subst'd date, and outputs {{ cfd}} with all the correct parameters. Its purpose is the includeonly tags that make the subst'd date work.
There is no need for {{ cfdu}} and {{ cfdud}} (cfdu with positional date parameter that never actually worked). They are not compatible with the current {{ cfd}} named date parameter. They must be deleted, not redirected.
Heck, I'm not sure there was ever a need for cfdu, but maybe in the distant past before default and named template parameters were added to wikimedia software. Recently, new parserfunctions made it a no-brainer.
What happens if a category has two "delete" votes after two days? Can it be deleted? How do I go about alerting an administrator to delete the category? (I'm referring to Category:WikiProject EastEnders by the way) Trampik e y ( talk to me)( contribs) 14:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
A number of the subcategories within Category:Fictional characters by nature are based almost entirely on POV, and I'm not really sure how to go about addressing the issue. Would anyone more experienced be willing to help me? -- Chris Griswold 10:19, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
This is re: the aftermath of the switch of Category:Singles by artist to Category:Songs by artist, which resulted in the creation of a Category:Foetus songs with no parent categories. I've temproarily subcategorized it under Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums, the home of Category:Foetus albums, among others ( J. G. Thirlwell is the musican who records as Foetus as well as other pseudonyms).
This temporary state isn't right, because songs are not subcategories of albums. I figured that I could either create a new Category:J. G. Thirlwell and place Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums and Category:Foetus songs as subcategories, or nominate to rename the current Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums to simply become Category:J. G. Thirlwell. Which would be preferable? -- Rynne 20:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
See: Filipino people by ethnic or national origin The result of the debate was no consensus --Kbdank71 14:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having this discussion page when a result of 'no consensus' means that one editor can proceed to delete all the categories that were being discussed? Does 'no consensus' mean do what whatever you want to do to delete cats and force some other editor to revert all the deletes? Thanks Hmains 05:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Templates for deletion states:
Is it reasonable to expect that the same process should take place here, with respect to maintenance categories? (also posted to Wikipedia talk:Category deletion policy). -- nae' blis 16:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
CFD seems to be getting really bogged down recently on fixing up user categories. I suggest that it is not worth it, and that our time is better spent dealing with encyclopedic content. User categories don't really matter that much anyway. If one is messed up, I would say just deleted it. Don't spend the time trying to figure out the exact right name for it. -- Cyde Weys 04:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Somebody has deleted all the "Suspected sockpuppet of X" and "Sockpuppets of X" categories without redirecting them; therefore, it has created a WP-wide systemic issue - all the lists of socks of a given user are gone, and the lists are important to show patterns of behavior for persistent vandals. Could this either be a) reversed, or b) wildcard redirected in all instances?
I forone think that something as important as this should have been communicated to the entire community. I personally was unaware of anything happening until it was too late. MSJapan 22:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I thought I followed the directions, but Category:Ophthalmologic inflammations doesn't show up here. It does show up at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 5, though. Could someone check my work, please. Thanks! - AED 01:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I have created a template, {{ Deletedcategory}} and a category, Category:Protected deleted categories, to protect categories which are deleted as being too ambiguous, point of view or unencyclopedic, and suffer recreation. The only problem I can see is that some people may still add the category to articles. I believe there are bots that run and remove categories which are redirected to other categories, and wonder if someone could add this category to their meanderings? Hiding Talk 21:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've deleted this page, as it hasn't been updated since February, and doesn't seem to have been used anywhere for a long time. It also wouldn't load due to its size (133 transcluded day pages!) — sjorford ++ 11:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, a user redesigned and repurposed this template, and I don't see any discussion about it. My understanding was that this template was only to be applied by an admin after a CFD discussion. The current wording now says the "page is being relocated by a WikiProject." Should the changes be reverted? - EurekaLott 15:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Orphan category, and I am not sure if it needs renaming (certainly) or just deletion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 06:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
What are we supposed to do about this? Somebody who's been around long enough to know better, failing to follow the standard procedures, created a sub=page, and then transcluded it.
Based on my understanding of the recent discussion over at Wikipedia talk:Categories for deletion/Working#Speedy moves, it appears that having the /Working transcluded may be confusing to some editors.
When I created it, I was following the "Holding cell" model of TfD. Only a few short months ago, there were far more TfD than CfD, but we were catching up in volume, our existing bot had stopped working, and we needed a bit of organization to help coordinate the hand-work.
Now, we have more activity than TfD, and are seeing nearly daily incorrect listings, listings in the wrong day, and (rare) listings directly in /Working.
Also, we had an earlier complaint about the floating box "Archive and Indices" up at the top. It doesn't always display correctly.
Noting that AfD has gone all the way to no transclusion, and just has a list of links to daily pages, I don't think we need to go that far (yet, and hopefully never).
I have some other ideas on how to make things cleaner and easier, but first I'd like a simple proposal, making it a bit easier to hand maintain the daily links (and perhaps easier for the bot reincarnation).
(I've checked, and there are no current or recent links to the old Cleanup overhead section heading, so it should be safe to eliminate.)
I've implemented it in incremental engineering fashion, moving the recent discussions box contents (see problems described at "Turning the tables" earlier) into a more standard list at the end of the page, and introduced a more consistent section naming:
5 Current discussions 5.1 Daily (transcluded) 5.2 Daily (transcluded) 5.3 Daily (transcluded) ... 6 Completed discussions Closing in progress (link) Recent discussions: * Daily (link) * Daily (link) * Daily (link) ... Archive and Indices (link)
Hi folks!
An editor has come to AfD to announce that s/he has finished work on Category:Wikipedia articles whose topics' importance is unclear. I think you people wanted it deleted when empty. If you'd like to check it over, I think it can be deleted. If it can, and you've not got an admin handy, drop me a line and I'll do it. ➨ ЯEDVERS 20:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the page has been renamed, can we brainstorm some ways to stimulate consensus through discussion rather than just having a poll. I'm thinking about a few things:
These are just a few ideas. Can we start a discussion?
As I was cleaning, I noticed a significant number of old nominations that were tagged months ago. In some cases, they were leftover from previous nominations (the closer forgot to remove them), or were not properly affixed (for example, adding {{ cfm}} to both categories, or {{ cfm}} to one and {{ mergeto}} or {{ mergefrom}} on the other).
However, I've found a large number where the template was added to the page, but never added to the daily discussion. Probably because the article space templates don't have that requirement.
I propose that we take a page from AfD and the new Deletion Review, and use {{ subst:cfd1}}, {{ subst:cfm1}}, and {{ subst:cfr1}}.
The revised templates could have a big "click here", and that would automagically add the {{ subst:cfd2}}, {{ subst:cfm2}}, and {{ subst:cfr2}} to the discussion page, using the &preload as was cleverly done at Deletion Review.
I'm going to play with {{ subst:cfm2}}, as it doesn't yet exist, to provide a working example. That will help make the discussion here more concrete, and provide testing before mucking with the others.
For posterity, I thought I should mention that my first attempted magic didn't work. Turns out that "§ion=new&preload=template:cfd2" will work (putting them at the bottom of the daily page rather than our current practice at the top), but I could not figure out how to preload the section subject/headline with the category or umbrella name. The &default= from the Inputbox extension didn't work for me, and I couldn't find any other documentation.
Besides, tradition here is to add them at the top of the page. So, my magic trick below was my somewhat less perfect solution to the problem.
OK, for my first successful magic trick, I added a NEW NOMINATIONS section at the top of each daily page, and changed THIS LINK on Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto (and the Cfd, Cfm, and Cfr templates) to "action=edit§ion=2". This should speed new listings and reduce edit conflicts on busy days, as the subst:cfd2 (or cfr2) into this tiny new section will always result in a new section just below itself.
Of course, this is something that could/should be removed after concluding each day. The (currently non-working) Templates for Deletion bot edits its previous day page after creating the current day page, and I'm sure we can handle the minor edit until we get a new bot, too.
However, as the THIS LINK edit is by day and section number, it won't hurt to leave them there until somebody gets around to it.
Can't this be hidden? It isn't an item for discussion, but it looks like one. As you know I removed it because I thought it was an error or vandalism. Osomec 04:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Template:Cfmf is nominated for deletion on TfD here: Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_2#Template:Cfmf. This is the category counterpart to the article template:mergefrom. I rather think it is useful, and should be kept. Ccccccccccc 07:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
template:oldcfd & template:oldcfd2 have gone up for deletion at WP:TFD. Shouldn't we actually be recording our discussions onto the category talk pages, as Articles for Deletion do? It would seem to be a rather importatnt process consideration. Ccccccccccc 08:03, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
It would be helpful for you to actually read the processes, before making comments upon them....
Template:Cfmf ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was proposed long ago by a new IP-only user, but never documented nor used over the past year.
There already exists a {{ cfdnotice}} for the rare instance where {{ cfm}} needs a "counterpart".
Likewise, {{ cfdend}} is the documented technique for recording decisions.
Thank you for your interest.
It seems as thought the "new IP-only" (exactly why "new"?) user created the first version of the CfD policy page as well, or atleast what the archive histories show.
Still, "oldcfd" is the intuitive counterpart to "oldafd" unless you're more active in the TfD process. So it should redirect to "cfdend" since "oldafd" and "oldvfd" are named in that manner.
As for cfdnotice - this is not a specific mergefrom notice. There probably should one one, or cfdnotice should be modified so that it can use a variable to decide which kind of text to display... such as a specific merge notice.
Ccccccccccc 10:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...and where's the consensus? -- kingboyk 09:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
ProveIt ( talk · contribs) has been innovating on the nominations, listing only the original template in the section heading on merging/renaming, instead of both templates. Then, the proposed merger starts immediately after the heading.
See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 1#Category:Buttonquails, and many others.
Under the current nomination format, when the target is changed during discussion, all the links to the section stop working.
I'd like to adopt the ProveIt innovation. Easy template changes, although probably not exactly the same resulting format.
How come when I type WP:CFD in the "go" box it opens the page in a new window? None of the other pages do this...I don't know if browser type is an issue here but I'm using Opera. Recury 03:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Not a nomination, but a question/discussion item:
In Category:People by ethnic or national descent, there are mostly sub-categories named 'People of Foo descent'. In Category:Emigrants by nationality, there are mostly sub-categories named 'Foo emigrants'. Looking down further into these sub-categories, they are both populated with sub-sub-categories named 'Foo Goo', where 'Foo' is the origin country and 'Goo' is the destination country. Examples: see Category:People of Canadian descent and Category:Canadian emigrants, having Category:Canadian Americans, Category:Canadian Australians, etc. Sometimes, in the matching sub-categories, the sub-sub-categories are the same; more often, there is partial or even no overlap.
Should there be either be categories named 'People of Foo descent' or 'Foo emigrants', but not both? Is there some naming decision somewhere that states what we should be using? Was the decision never implemented or, worse, partially implemented? What is happening here? Thanks Hmains 21:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
There seem to be a lot of unresolved CFDs from June 2006, for example, Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 28. Could an admin please close these? -- M @ r ē ino 22:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Can a technical adept fix it please. Chicheley 10:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
For the past few weeks (see #Clearer nomination process), I've been experimenting with subst'able templates that add the date automatically, among other things. I'm confident that they work reasonably well:
Unlike AfD, they do not result in massive subst'd template HTML CSS cruft all over the page. Instead, they just make our current templates with automated and sometimes fancier parameters than most folks seem to do by hand.
Since our process uses a 1 week period, after a week or so, everything should have moved painlessly to having a date, and a direct link to the daily page.
Warning: {{ subst:cfd}} without the 1 does not work well, it makes a horrid mess, much like {{ subst:afd}}. I've always disliked cleaning up after an AfD.
In short,
{{
cfd}}
, etc.{{
cfd}}
will continue to work as usual.{{
cfdu}}
will be deprecated.Any objections to making these the standard instructions at /Howto?
Hearing none, I've updated the instructions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto. I also cleaned up the language and display a bit.
I'm wondering if this page might not be better renamed to "categories for deletion". Every other page where rename/delete decisions are made, are called "Articles/templates/Images/whatevers for deletion", even if they involve discussion (as they always do).
Would it help users if CFD was renamed to standardize it too? FT2 ( Talk | email) 19:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I just noticed that Category:Categories for renaming is overloaded with old stuff that was actually kept. I just removed old CfD notices from Xyzian-Americans categories, now working on various companies based in US... but the category has more than 800 entries in it... Renata 03:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
hi, i listed this
and got a support comment. it's been 48 hrs, so now what? does an admin or bot make the change? thanks. J. Van Meter 11:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I had the same question as J. Van Meter above. Could you add a "part IV" to How to use this page that explains what happens once a CfD is made? Doesn't have to be long, e.g. "Once you have submitted a CfD, no further action is necessary on your part. The suggestion will be posted and votes will be made supporting or opposing the proposal. If the proposal is supported, an admin, automated bot, or combination of the two will make the necessary edits and ensure that the change is populated to all affected pages." Or whatever. Thanks! Bookgrrl 01:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
This page is now using Template:Year Month Day from day offset ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs), and should adjust to the next day without intervention.
Use the link at the top to purge the local cache for those times that an old version is stuck in an apache or squid cache. This has happened from time to time ever since the change to daily subpages, and is not related to this change.
I am still generating the daily pages by hand in advance, as the template is not subst'able. I've written code for Mediawiki to handle offsets, but it has not yet been accepted. http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6692 and http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6693.
I am still updating "Closing in progress" each day, and removing the previous day's NEW NOMINATIONS section.
Ah well, not my fault! I see that Splash ( talk · contribs) and then Freakofnurture ( talk · contribs) destroyed this page, too. Thanks to The Wub ( talk · contribs) and Syrthiss ( talk · contribs) for trying to fix it.
So we have agreement that we only want 7 days listed, with the recent 7 days listed below?
And what happened to Centralized discussion? That's been on this page as long as I can remember!
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#William Allen Simpson trying to make CFR a vote -- SPUI ( T - C) 01:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
SPUI's edit seems to have been vanquished, but I will reiterate what I have said elsewhere: The Cfd template is often useful for situations where "this category is rubbish, we need to rescope it or merge it into something else or just plain delete it (oh, and if you really do want to keep it, it still needs to be renamed)" that degenerating it into a keep vs delete thing (with all the horrid prospects of vote-counting) is not the wisest of ideas. TheGrappler 01:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the sorting this out. I've been reading and following those instructions for a long time but WP:CFD is definitely "Categories for discussion". Not all nominations are clear-cut. I don't want "delete" to appear at the front of all my comments automatically if what I am trying to see is "I have found a badly designed category, perhaps it should be merged somewhere though I honestly can't think where, or at the very least renamed (potentially to X, although that would involve a partial rescope) but unless somebody can think of something better to do with it, I'd suggest deleting". Similarly, it is disingenuous to stick on a "cfm" or "cfr" tag and end up with a deletion decision - I think if there is any ambiguity or chance foreseen that deletion will ensue, then cfd is the better tag. Applying cfr with the comment "Rename to Z but I wouldn't mind seeing this deleted", for instance, is bad form in my book. Therefore it makes sense to apply the cfd tag in instances of uncertainty. TheGrappler 02:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
(Copying my comment from ANI) Because of the vagaries of the category system, CFD tends to work in a very different way to the other deletion pages. There tend to be more complicated discussions, often involving blanket changes over several categories, and there are a wide range of possible outcomes. This is the reasoning behind the recent name change. However as far as I can tell these templates are intended for cases which the nominator believes can be resolved simply, and in those cases these templates are a time saving measure. This does NOT in any way prevent anyone else from suggesting alternatives, at any stage in the process. Nor does it prevent the nominator from using a more "customised" nomination message if it is felt appropriate. the wub "?!" 22:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we should go back to the old versions (pre July 23) without the extra data and to make clear what the nomination is for. The current rename is totally confusing. Having to search to find the target does not seem to be a good move. These are discussions and the results can be different then suggested, but that fact should not force us to use confusing nomination headings. Vegaswikian 02:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I have not been around this week (I'm rarely around on weekdays), and "Freakofnurture" trying to make CfD look more like TfD rather bolluxed my changes. I do find lc useful, as otherwise it takes several clicks to get to the category history. But since others don't want it, I'm removing it.
I left it on Deletion requests, where it doesn't seem to be in the way. I also tried to make the missing parameters more descriptive.
Reviewing today's nominations ( Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 26) I suddenly realised various votes and a section of the page was missing; I've just reinstated them. There may be other votes/sections still missing. Is something broken somewhere? Hoping it's not my sanity, David Kernow 00:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
A User has just removed an entire nomination: here. This is totally unacceptable behaviour. I request that an Admin reprimands them. -- Mais oui! 16:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Above has a CfD tag on it but I cannot find a related discussion. The page history has only one entry also which has me confused. Can anyone help? -- I@n 02:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Category:Preteen Wikipedians has been blanked. The userbox? Dead. Everyone on the list? Wiped. We had a contact system going, this is terrible. There is no explanation. Someone just wiped us. Tell us why! User:Wizkid357/Wiki Preteen and discussion page. Tell us. We want it back. We were effectavly gaining members and we're using the catagory to help recruit and gain contact with our preteens. I, for one, want it back. Thank you. Julz
Twice in the last two days, editors have made counterproposals to CFD nominations as separate CFD nominations. Yesterday, we had the dueling British female MPs nominations, which are now a total mess and will likely end in no consensus (and that may have been the intent of the second nomination). Today, in response to the British doctors merger nomination, another user made the reverse nomination. Splitting discussions this way only leads to confusion and increased difficulty for the closing admin. I don't think it's spelled out in the guidelines, but I think we should immediately close discussions of proposals that contradict other nominations as WP:POINT violations. Thoughts? - EurekaLott 14:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Some clever person recently moved this from deletion to discussion a while back, but failed to migrate the templates and how they link to subpages. That should be considered, if the name is to stick - Ste| vertigo 10:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I've just nominated Category:Actors that portrayed heroes or villains for deletion, and I think I followed the process outlined in this article. However, the output of the cfd1 template on the category page includes a link to add the discussion at the categories for deletion page. I hope I'm making myself clear; take a look at Category:Actors that portrayed heroes or villains and you'll see an "add entry" line, and a "maintenance" line above that, which don't appear to be necessary. Am I right in thinking this is out of sync with the instructions at WP:CFD? Seems too me the instructions should either say to delete the link in the template once you've created the discussion, or the link shouldn't be in the template in the first place as the instructions explain how to create the discussion. I'd also be glad of an explanation of the "Maintenance" line. Thanks for any help. Mike Christie 01:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
are ready to be deleted. They have been superceded by
{{
cfd|optional umbrella section|date yyyy Month dd}}
Yes, that was done long ago. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Howto at "If a group of similar categories, use an umbrella nomination:"
No, {{ subst:cfd1}} takes the optional umbrella parameter, and adds the subst'd date, and outputs {{ cfd}} with all the correct parameters. Its purpose is the includeonly tags that make the subst'd date work.
There is no need for {{ cfdu}} and {{ cfdud}} (cfdu with positional date parameter that never actually worked). They are not compatible with the current {{ cfd}} named date parameter. They must be deleted, not redirected.
Heck, I'm not sure there was ever a need for cfdu, but maybe in the distant past before default and named template parameters were added to wikimedia software. Recently, new parserfunctions made it a no-brainer.
What happens if a category has two "delete" votes after two days? Can it be deleted? How do I go about alerting an administrator to delete the category? (I'm referring to Category:WikiProject EastEnders by the way) Trampik e y ( talk to me)( contribs) 14:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
A number of the subcategories within Category:Fictional characters by nature are based almost entirely on POV, and I'm not really sure how to go about addressing the issue. Would anyone more experienced be willing to help me? -- Chris Griswold 10:19, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
This is re: the aftermath of the switch of Category:Singles by artist to Category:Songs by artist, which resulted in the creation of a Category:Foetus songs with no parent categories. I've temproarily subcategorized it under Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums, the home of Category:Foetus albums, among others ( J. G. Thirlwell is the musican who records as Foetus as well as other pseudonyms).
This temporary state isn't right, because songs are not subcategories of albums. I figured that I could either create a new Category:J. G. Thirlwell and place Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums and Category:Foetus songs as subcategories, or nominate to rename the current Category:J. G. Thirlwell albums to simply become Category:J. G. Thirlwell. Which would be preferable? -- Rynne 20:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
See: Filipino people by ethnic or national origin The result of the debate was no consensus --Kbdank71 14:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having this discussion page when a result of 'no consensus' means that one editor can proceed to delete all the categories that were being discussed? Does 'no consensus' mean do what whatever you want to do to delete cats and force some other editor to revert all the deletes? Thanks Hmains 05:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Templates for deletion states:
Is it reasonable to expect that the same process should take place here, with respect to maintenance categories? (also posted to Wikipedia talk:Category deletion policy). -- nae' blis 16:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
CFD seems to be getting really bogged down recently on fixing up user categories. I suggest that it is not worth it, and that our time is better spent dealing with encyclopedic content. User categories don't really matter that much anyway. If one is messed up, I would say just deleted it. Don't spend the time trying to figure out the exact right name for it. -- Cyde Weys 04:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)