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Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 |
Should an article be made for the referee debacle in the cowboys-Lions game? It could be called Decker Reported Eligible, similar to the Dez Caught It article, or the Fail Mary article. It did receive coverage 8 days after the incident, and while the NFL didn’t change the rules it did prompt a reaction from them. Plus, this play is why Dallas earned the #2 seed and the Lions were stuck in seed #3, so this did have significant playoff implications. This explains that. 69.118.230.235 ( talk) 16:58, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 05:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article.
This is a pretty minor thing, but I wonder if we could find consensus against preserving in articles the use of the phrase "former American football [position]".
Rockchalk717 recently
disputed a change to "American former football center" contra
MOS:NATIONALITY, which says bios should usually
begin with a person's nationality, rather than omit nationality and use "American" to modify the sport. As
Bagumba has
previously written, they did not renounce their citizenship, they are not former Americans, but rather American former football players
. Rockchalk argues that "American football" should be written as one in order to not confuse non-American English speakers
. I don't share this concern; as Bagumba
writes, Per
MOS:TIES, use American English, as it's just called "football". All the other non-U.S. soccer players just use "football" as per British English
. Most
NFL FAs use just "football", not "American football". I hope others agree "former American" isn't a desirable phrasing.
Hameltion (
talk |
contribs)
17:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Robert Mann (April 8, 1924 – October 21, 2006) was an American professional football player in the National Football League (NFL).
Two thoughts. Firstly, the sport is American football, named to distinguish it from other codes such as association football (soccer), Rugby football, and other. And since Wikipedia is written for an international audience, the full name of the sport should be used on first mention, which means "American" should not be separated from "football", even if the players' nationality is American.
Secondly, the current guidance is ungrammatical, based on overthinking and a failure to grasp context, and should be rewritten. Adjectives in English always go in the order opinion-size-age-shape-color-origin-material-purpose. "Former" is a relative age. Nationality is an origin. "Former American X" is grammatically correct. "American former X" is not. And it in no way can correctly be read as meaning someone's nationality changed.
The first phrasing cannot be properly read as "former" applying to "American" because "American" in this construct is an adjective, not a noun, and only adverbs modify adjectives. If it were saying the person's nationality had changed it would be written as "formerly American", with the adverb form. Instead "former" and "American" are two distinct and independent adjective both applying to the same noun. The current guidance is bad English based on a failure to actually understand parts of speech and should be tossed out.
As for the applicability when American football is being discussed, since the "American" shouldn't be dropped for clarity to the international readership, rephrasing to say "former American football player from the United States" is preferable. oknazevad ( talk) 19:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the full name of the sport should be used on first mention: The sport name is "football". We use natural disambiguation because each page must have a different name. That page title is preferable to football (American). But just because we have a long page title like quarterback sack, doesn't mean that plain sack isn't the consise term once the context is established. Or that we must use placekicker instead of piping to kicker. Non-American soccer bios generally don't show association football due to MOS:TIES. It's football played by a footballer, strange as that is to an American. — Bagumba ( talk) 19:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 06:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the (formal, not colloquial) English of that nation.
is a former Canadian American football placekickerin the National Football League (NFL)Who can understand what his real situation is without knowing his actual bio? — Bagumba ( talk) 20:19, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Geoffrey Stephen Christie (born November 13, 1967) is a Canadian former professional football player in the National Football League (NFL) and Canadian Football League (CFL)...sounds real good to me. Don't support "former American" in any way. Just sounds like poor English. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
On July 2, 2007, Christie joined the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League by signing a practice roster agreement with the team. On the signing, Christie pointed out that one reason for joining the team was "basically doing Michael (Clemons) a favour" as a former college teammate and that it was tentatively for one game. The other reason was that as a Canadian citizen, playing one game in the CFL, would be great way to finish his career.[3] Christie was activated to play on July 7, 2007 against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I would propose that the standard for an NFL bio of a retired player should be:
PLAYER NAME (BIRTHDATE – DEATHDATE) is a[n] NATIONALITY former professional football player in the National Football League (NFL).
Some addenda:
This meets WP:NATIONALITY, is grammatically correct, sounds encyclopedic, and per Bagumba's earlier comment, "American football" isn't necessary to understand the person's notability. The fact they are a "professional" (for bios that relate to professionals and not just college players) is typically what makes them notable. The exact sport they played, assuming the reader is a complete novice, will be made evident in the bio or can be easily understood by clicking on the football link. As an aside, college football isn't college American football, because "college football" is a collective noun. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
identifying they played in the NFL establishes they were professional: Not to readers unfamiliar with the NFL or American football. "professional" is fairly common in the lead sentence of other sports' bios.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 05:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Use a link when appropriate, but as far as possible do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence.
So professional has to be added due to the fact he's an American playing American football: No, there's thousands of English soccer players with professional in their lead sentence. [6] — Bagumba ( talk) 06:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
...but back to back links is hardly a sea of blue: It's either back-to-back or it isn't. There is no half back-to-back. Aside from MOS:SEAOFBLUE being a community guideline, leaving them invites people to get cute and just pipe to one link like this.— Bagumba ( talk) 11:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
I have nominated List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers seasons for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
An offshoot to the last discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 23 § Question on Player Team Categories, where we discussed team categories and inbox team listings of players who never actually played a regular season game with said team.
Is this NFL project "claiming" the player, and using the {{ Infobox NFL player}} on their bio instead of {{ infobox college football player}}? (Courtesy ping to Sergio Skol, who recently changed a similar player to use the college infobox. [7]) — Bagumba ( talk) 04:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
A couple days ago, I updated the URL code for Template:Profootballhof, which had been out of date for a long while. But all the individual transclusions needs to be updated as well, like with this edit. I've done a few but there are 200+ that need updating; see https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Profootballhof&limit=500. Jweiss11 ( talk) 16:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
What is the protocol for linking duplicate season years in the infobox? For example, Joshua Dobbs was on three different rosters in 2023, and the 2023 NFL season is linked for each instance. My reading of MOS:REPEATLINK is that only the first instance of 2023 in the infobox should be linked, but maybe I am incorrect. OceanGunfish ( talk) 14:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
This RM to lowercase the titling of National Signing Day may be of interest to participants of this WikiProject. Randy Kryn ( talk) 05:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
Kansas City Chiefs has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm Talk 18:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
With my recent creations of John Holahan, Francis Fogarty, Arch Wolfe, Fran Foley and John Blackinger, it appears that every person to have served as a general manager in the NFL among current teams now has an article!!! This was one of my earliest goals I set at Wikipedia BeanieFan11 ( talk) 01:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
As part of my general manager quest, I started up in my userspace a list of general managers for defunct teams, with the goal of finding who managed every team in every year in NFL history (also AAFC). Currently have 15 teams complete (in knowing who served as general manager), 2 partially complete, whereas I have not yet found the general managers for 34 franchises. Help in finding these would be appreciated. Thanks, BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:02, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured topics/Green Bay Packers presidents! I started it in 2018....... almost 6 years. And the fun thing is that Mark Murphy (American football executive) is going to retire next year, which means I'll have to add one more GA after the new president is announced haha. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
With my creations of Dick Harris and Joe Gray, it also now appears that every first-round draft pick in NFL history now has an article! BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi, for anyone who is feeling an urge to create new articles for this project and for college football, there are a ton of requested articles at Wikipedia:Requested articles/Sports/American football for a variety of subjects, from players and coaches to rivalries and terminology. Some of these have been lingering around for awhile with no action. Feel free to be bold, help create some new articles and expand Wikipedia's coverage of American football! Fretyr ( talk) 16:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
I know the last proposal got shot down, but I found coverage of the incident on March 25, 2024. As such, WP:SUSTAINED is covered to some degree. 69.118.230.235 ( talk) 22:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at this topic on Wikidata ?
The question is about a dewiki article about "fake", and Play-action for which they also have an article. We're wondering if it's a duplicate or if there are several kind of "fake" in football and "play-action" is a special case ? TomT0m ( talk) 19:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Copying from WT:AMF, since this project is more active. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
There are still so many articles that have "National Football League" in them (i.e. National Football League All-Decade Teams, National Football League 50th Anniversary All-Time Team, National Football League on American television, National Football League player conduct policy, National Football League Rookie of the Year Award, National Football League controversies, etc. With the RM at NFL, should these all get moved? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
What about adding the information of a former NFL player becoming a head coach? For example, former linebacker Jerod Mayo played with the New England Patriots from 2008-2015. In 2024, he was selected as the new head coach for the New England Patriots, replacing Bill Belichick. Abhiramakella ( talk) 22:31, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
position – used to display the player's most frequently played position. Positions must be listed as they are at ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:American football positions.Per this, coaching or other non-player positions should not be listed in this field. Just to note, one of the more famous player/coaches, Curly Lambeau, lists his playing position, even though he only played for 10 years and coached for over 30. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I've always been bugged by the naming of this article. Like of all the different names, this is not the common name:
Thoughts? I'm leaning towards just Johnny Blood. Simple, easy, no punctuation marks and generally the common name ("John" and "Blood" are included in each name). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:27, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:National Football League Players Association#Requested move 29 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 14:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Hello everyone, recently I've been working hard on updating and improving the uniform template and images used to represent the NFL teams' uniforms. An example can be seen here, where the image is anti-aliased so that users may edit it with greater ease and the image reflects great accuracy towards the new uniforms. I currently have images finished for the Jets, Browns, and Lions, and I am currently working on the Texans. There is also the 28 other teams I plan to work on over the next month or so. I can't upload anything yet, so I'm wondering how I would approach contributing these new images? ExpergeTech ( talk) 15:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
I've caught a serious issue that may require this project's attention. At some point in the 2010s, {{ Infobox gridiron football person}} (and a variant-capitalization redirect from {{ Infobox Gridiron football person}}) were redirected to {{ Infobox Canadian Football League biography}} — but the problem is that since NFL football is obviously also gridiron, this has resulted in a lot of NFL players who never had anything whatsoever to do with the CFL, but whose articles are currently using the CFL infobox because they were using gridiron and then got "corrected" (or because they're still using gridiron but it's functioning as a redirect to the CFL template.)
Obviously that redirect should never have happened in the first place, since NFL football is also gridiron and it was never safe to assume that gridiron always meant CFL, but because it did happen, there are a lot of people that currently have the wrong infobox on them. Can this project initiate some kind of process of cleaning this up? Bearcat ( talk) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Update: I have recreated the generic "gridiron football person" as a standalone template, as it existed prior to the page move, and updated the documentation from the obviously incorrect "only for CFL players" to a "please move people to one of the more specific NFL, AFL, CFL or college football infoboxes where possible" statement. I'll file a bot request later today, but there's a bit of other cleanup work I have to get through first, like removing the maintenance category from the people I've already added it to who don't need it anymore given that I've recreated the old template. Bearcat ( talk) 18:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
So on the discussion about the way we describe what team a player played for in college in February, Bagumba ( talk · contribs) says "I'd suggest modifying the body to something like "Araiza committed to play college football at San Diego State University (SDSU) for the Aztecs..." I've seen the argument made that non-sports fans and non-Americans may be more familiar with the university, so a link to it at some point makes the connection more obvious." but what amount of support does this have? It has become an issue on J. J. McCarthy's page, where Centurion Seraph ( talk · contribs) continues to revert every edit returning to the former. Could we please settle this once and for all and codify it as a guideline one way or the other? ~ Dissident93 ( talk) 21:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
[[Michigan Wolverines football|University of Michigan]]
per
MOS:EGG. —
Bagumba (
talk)
00:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
...codify it as a guideline one way or the other?: There's an example at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format § Lead — Bagumba ( talk) 00:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
I am having some difficulty in a Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Patrick Omameh/1 review. I am being asked to expand a biography of a mediocre player beyond what I feel is normal. The summaries of the sources I am finding expand upon his mediocrity in a manner that I don't feel is very encyclopedic. The first two sources that I have dug into have resulted in the this expansion. Is this what we want?- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Reposted from my original comment at WP:WISCONSIN
Hi all, I am working on bringing Packers Heritage Trail to WP:FLC. I recently traveled as part of a longer work trip to Green Bay last week, with the goal of getting photos of each historic site along the trail. However, unfortunately it rained pretty much the whole day I was in Green Bay. I was able to get a few photos but the rain and my tight schedule meant I missed out on a good number. I was wondering if there were any Green Bay residents in this Project who would be up for grabbing a few photos for me? If so, I would greatly appreciate it! Please let me know, even if you can only grab a few, and I can kind of explain what the photos for each site could look like. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
It is hard to write lineman article. Does anyone keep statistics like the average time a lineman holds his block in pass protection, the frequency of pancake blocks, yards per rush through off of his shoulder, yards before contact off of his shoulder, and/or missed assignment tackle for a loss frequency. It would be a lot easier to write offensive lineman articles if we had stats for them.- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Rodgers threw for 318 yards, two touchdowns, and two interceptions in the regular season finale against the Bearsover and over and over. It's bad enough with stats that are routinely reported (yards, TDs) but would be absurd to report on niche stats for lineman. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
How is this possible? UCO2009bluejay ( talk) 01:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Disambiguating with (football) for football players, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion ( talk | contribs) 21:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I suggest don't add career records for players who are still active. Why? Well, I think it'll cause too many inaccuracy in infoboxes.
E.g. Justin Jefferson holds the record for most career receiving yards per game with 98.3. When he plays one more game, for example, it'll be 99.5, 97.5, etc. So we will need to change it after every game he plays.
Also, Patrick Mahomes holds the record for career playoff passer rating (minimum 150 attempts) with 105.8 and career passing yards per game (minimum 1,500 attempts): 296.1. Once again, we will need to change it after every game he plays. And additionally for these last two, IMO are arbitrary records and they shouldn't be added in infoboxes. (See: WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT) Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
There's still work to do relating to the 2024 NFL draft if anybody's interested. A number of the picks are missing text in the body that they were selected and/or need further cleanup (see e.g. these edits). Many of the undrafted free agent signings also need to be updated with text about their signing, the appropriate navboxes, NFL talk page banners, etc. Any help would be appreciated. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A review I received Based on Common draft on my featured list nomination of List of Kansas City Chiefs first-round draft picks asked for a bit more clarity on what the common draft is. Upon looking at common draft, I noticed it references only the drafts from 1967–1969 ( 1969 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft, 1969 NFL/AFL draft). Template:NFL drafts also refers to that same set of 3 drafts as the "common draft", and everything after 1970 as the "modern era". Depending on where you look, "modern era" is often used to refer to the Super Bowl era, which, arguably started in 1967 or 1970. Never the less, I think for drafts, we typically refer to it as the common draft era as opposed to the modern era, whereas for seasons and championships, we may refer to it as the modern/Super Bowl era.
I believe the term "common draft" should be referring to everything from 1967 onwards and that the common draft and the NFL drafts template mistakenly imply that the common draft and modern era are separate eras. The phrase "common draft" is simply meant to refer to the fact that the leagues combined their drafts, which they started doing in 1967. They began simply calling it the "NFL draft", but it's, never the less, been the "common draft" since then.
A number of sources that explicitly reference the common draft era as having started from 1967 onwards:
Essentially, what I'm asking, is for consensus to update Template:NFL drafts to remove "modern era" and move all of those entries to "common draft". I'd also love consensus (and for someone to be willing) to update the common draft article. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at the talk page of List of first overall NFL draft picks. I would like to rework the list and get it promoted to featured list status. I'd appreciate any feedback at the discussion on the talk page. Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm looking for ideas for featured topics that are primarily lists, as I want to contribute to a good or featured topic but I don't want to do GAs or FAs.
Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated, as I'm looking for new things to promote to featured list status now that I'm finished with the first-round pick lists (28 promoted, 2 nominated, last 2 prepped and ready for nomination but there's limits to how many I can nom at once). Hey man im josh ( talk) 20:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
RM being held concerning playoff games in the NFL's history. GoodDay ( talk) 20:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
And now move reviews of these at WP:MRV#1933 NFL Championship Game and WP:MRV#AFC Championship Game. Dicklyon ( talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Also
RM being held concerning UFL playoff games. --
GoodDay (
talk)
03:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May includes two move reviews, one for the NFL Championship Game and one for the AFC Championship Game (which would also include the NFC Championship Game), which may be of interest to project members. Randy Kryn ( talk) 14:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I am really struggling with these "List of XXX players" lists. There are some ( List of Chicago Tigers players) that are difficult to even define as an actual functional article. They are wildly different in format, some of which contend to be a comprehensive list of a team's players ( List of San Francisco 49ers players), some that include additional details about each player ( List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers players) and some that just highlight key players found in other smaller team lists ( List of Chicago Bears players). However, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all wildly out-of-date and likely to continue to be. Unlike basketball (see Portland Trail Blazers all-time roster), NFL team's these days have huge rosters, with easily 60+ players playing at least one game a season. For some older clubs, we are talking about thousands of players, for 32 teams. The task of maintaining a true all-time roster for modern NFL clubs is a monumental, and I would argue, unlikely and pointless endeavor that is more appropriate for Categorization or external sources (such as Pro-Football-Reference). I would also argue that maintaining an all-time roster for NFL teams, considering how large their rosters are and how often players move from team-to-team, falls into WP:NOTSTATS territory.
Thinking this through, I have a proposal for how to address these lists in a way that makes them functional and maintainable:
I know this may seem drastic, but from the perspective of quality, navigability and ease of editor maintenance, this is the simplest and most straightforward solution. It would allow us to standardize the format of these pages and point readers into their likely direction (finding smaller, more defined lists). Think about it, if I would like to know who has played for the Packers, I would either look that person up on Wikipedia or I would go to PFR or some other stat website. I honestly struggle to understand how a page like this, for example List of Jacksonville Jaguars players, could be helpful to a Wikipedia reader, even if it is actively maintained and accurate. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I am proposing we remove NFL.com links from player infoboxes completely. After the website nuked the player stats pages in 2020, they have become mostly unusable/irrelevant. This is in addition to
over 11,000 broken links from that 2020 change. Unless there is any opposition to the change, I will deprecate the |nfl=
parameter from
Template:Infobox NFL biography in a week.
Eagles
24/7
(C)
19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
|nfl=
and |nflnew=
parameters now show up as deprecated.
Category:Pages using infobox NFL biography with unsupported parameters is beginning to populate with every article still using those parameters, so someone can use AWB to clean those up.
Eagles
24/7
(C)
23:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Asking if we should use the actual names of the ones used in the past (before the 2011 season)
@
Centurion Seraph thinks we should use [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]]
and I think we should keep links as simply as possible using [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year]]
according to
WP:NOPIPE and
WP:NOTBROKEN, because the
Tatum–Woodson Defensive Back of the Year (e. g.) redirect to the right section.
No other conferences have awards named after any players, so why add the "Big Ten"? Those links doesn't work ( Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year and Big Ten Quarterback of the Year are red links)
So should we leave out "Big Ten"? Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No other conferences have conference awards named after players...: For the record, the Pac-12 has (or had?) the Pat Tillman Defensive Player of the Year.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Conference specific awards shouldn't be included otherwise.(responding to @Hey man im josh's comment here due to outdent above): A conference's off or def POY is more exclusive than their 11 or 22 all-conference selections on each side. What's the rationale for excluding them over all-conf? We can drop conference and even national freshman honors.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Ohio State star wide receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. was named the Big Ten Graham-George Offensive Player of the Year Wednesday, marking a sixth straight season in which one of the Buckeyes was so recognized.[10]— Bagumba ( talk) 17:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
I stumbled across Billy Shields after some random clicking of Wikilinks, and figured I take a shot at expanding it a bit. However, I've hit a speed bump in the form of a paywall regarding what happened to Shields after being traded by the Chargers to the Vikings before the 1984 season but then being signed by the 49ers after the season began. One guess is that Shields was released by the Vikings without even playing in a game, and then picked up by the Niners. This book, however, seems to suggest that Shields was released by the Chargers and then claimed off waivers by the Niners, which might mean the trade with Minnesota fell through for some reason. Anyway, I think the answer can be found here, but I'm not interested in subscribing to the Washington Post just to access the article. So, I wondering if anyone else has access to the article or perhaps can find an alternative source that can help clarify what happened between the Vikings and Shields. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 07:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
San Francisco 49ers -- Signed offensive tackle Billy Shields, 6-8, 280-pound Pro Bowl alternate the past two years. Shields had left the San Diego Chargers in training camp because of a contract dispute. He then was traded to Minnesota, but that deal was voided when Shields and the Vikings could not come to terms. Shields was waived formally by the Chargers last week. To make room for Shields, the 49ers waived center John Macauley.
I did some Googling and found some more stull about Shield's post NFL-career that might be encyclopedically relevant but I'm not sure about it sourcing. The first one is 2012 San Madre CA Patch article which discusses Shield's involvement in a local development project. The article referneces Shields a number of times and referes to him as a former executive VP for a company called Sunrise Senior Living as well as the founder of a LLC called Fountain Square Development. The article isn't exactly flattering per se, and Patch Media doesn't seem to be considered much of a reliable source based on varous discussions found in the WP:RSN archives. Still, this might help lead to other sources for this type of information (like this and this) that can somehow be used. The other item I found is related to a 2012 concusion injury lawsuit filed by a number of former NFL players against the NFL in Pennsylvania. Shields is listed as plaitiff 192 and there's some brief biographical information about him found on page 77. The lawsuit itself is a primary source, but I'm wondering if it's sufficent for supporting content about Shield's wife and his involvement in the lawsuit. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Team | FLs | Division |
---|---|---|
Arizona Cardinals | 2 | NFC West |
Atlanta Falcons | 3 | NFC South |
Baltimore Ravens | 3 | AFC North |
Buffalo Bills | 1 | AFC East |
Carolina Panthers | 2 | NFC South |
Chicago Bears | 3 | NFC North |
Cincinnati Bengals | 1 | AFC North |
Cleveland Browns | 2 | AFC North |
Dallas Cowboys | 1 | NFC East |
Denver Broncos | 2 | AFC West |
Detroit Lions | 3 | NFC North |
Green Bay Packers | 13 | NFC North |
Houston Texans | 2 | AFC South |
Indianapolis Colts | 3 | AFC South |
Jacksonville Jaguars | 1 | AFC South |
Kansas City Chiefs | 2 | AFC West |
Las Vegas Raiders | 2 | AFC West |
Los Angeles Chargers | 4 | AFC West |
Los Angeles Rams | 3 | NFC West |
Miami Dolphins | 1 | AFC East |
Minnesota Vikings | 3 | NFC North |
New England Patriots | 3 | AFC East |
New Orleans Saints | 3 | NFC South |
New York Giants | 3 | NFC East |
New York Jets | 2 | AFC East |
Philadelphia Eagles | 2 | NFC East |
Pittsburgh Steelers | 2 | AFC North |
San Francisco 49ers | 2 | NFC West |
Seattle Seahawks | 2 | NFC West |
Tampa Bay Buccaneers | 1 | NFC South |
Tennessee Titans | 2 | AFC South |
Washington Commanders | 3 | NFC East |
Total | 82 | — |
Division | FLs |
---|---|
NFC North | 22 |
NFC East | 9 |
NFC South | 9 |
NFC West | 9 |
AFC North | 8 |
AFC East | 7 |
AFC South | 8 |
AFC West | 10 |
Note: This list includes four current featured list nominations (Packers x2, Bengals x1, Jaguars x1) which are on track to be promoted.
I thought this would be an interesting bit of information about our WikiProject to share. Hopefully it motivates people to work on getting their team better represented! It certainly has for me, and I have two additional Detroit Lions listed prepped and ready for nomination, as well as 4 other Lions lists that are works in progress which will also eventually be nominated. Credit to @ Gonzo fan2007 for being responsible for all 13 of the Packers' lists. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
We continue to face infobox bloat as conferences continue to add more and more awards to what's given out every year. Based on the above discussion, and in the spirit of keeping awards listed in the infobox to only the most notable/important awards, I'd like to formally propose that we exclude conference awards, with exceptions, from the infobox.
Include:
Exclude:
Conference specific exclusions that are already noted at WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT:
Please voice your concerns, support, or opposition as appropriate. Pinging those who were involved in the above discussion: @ Sergio Skol, @ Centurion Seraph, @ Bagumba, @ UCO2009bluejay. Hey man im josh ( talk) 13:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 14:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article...The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content.
The same four people talking dont speak for 99.9% of the editors who aren't reading or able to voice there opinions.: We can only go by people who choose to comment. Consensus can change too, if people happen to chime in later.— Bagumba ( talk) 05:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Skipping the editing phase automatically eliminates any opposition before consensus is already reached and enforced" If someone disagrees after the fact, they discuss it here, and that's when consensus can change. On the flip side, if it wasn't discussed first before editing, there's a certain segment of editors that will automatically delete merely because it "didn't already have consensus" It's a catch-22. — Bagumba ( talk) 08:09, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 01:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Do not use articles from Wikipedia (whether English Wikipedia or Wikipedias in other languages) as sources, since Wikipedia is a user-generated source...Content from a Wikipedia article is not considered reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources. Confirm that these sources support the content, then use them directly.
— Bagumba ( talk) 19:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Instead of removing content from an article or reverting a new contribution, consider...Formatting or sourcing on the spot
Noting that I've left a notice at Template talk:Infobox NFL biography and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format about this discussion. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Was reading
Willard Dewveall and noticed there's a long-standing statement that In 1962, Dewveall caught the (then) longest pass reception for a touchdown in professional football history, 98 yards, from Jacky Lee, against the San Diego Chargers.
However, this doesn't seem right as
Frank Filchock is listed as having thrown a 99-yard TD pass to
Andy Farkas in 1939 at
99-yard pass play. Thoughts?
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
References
On J. J. McCarthy’s page there has been a four editor debate regarding his lead for the last 72+ hours. (@ Cbl62 @ Bluerules @ Jweiss11) It’s been an even stand off, at times reaching a 3-1 agreement, but now its getting even further distorted with new edits again. We have all made an exhausting amount of edits and reversions, Im trying to learn and debate this in a more proper manner. As it cant be remedied through his talk page with evolving edits, keeping this cyclical.
The current version and editor refutes that he won three big ten titles, which I disagree, and wants a season by season recap, including his early life and high school career added at the forefront of the lead. Burying all his major accomplishments in 2023. I believe it should read as follows…
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football for the Michigan Wolverines, winning a national championship as a junior in 2023. The program’s first since 1997. He also won a third consecutive Big Ten Conference title and was the Big Ten Quarterback of the Year. McCarthy finished his college career with a 27–1 record (.964) as the starting quarterback, the highest winning percentage in NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) history. He was selected 10th overall by the Vikings in the 2024 NFL draft.
Centurion Seraph ( talk) 18:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
I just don't feel a player's high school career is all that relevant to the lead once they've become a pro. Accomplished HS players are a dime a dozen at that point, and not distinguishing to other pros, save perhaps of national honors. — Bagumba ( talk) 23:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)The lead section should summarise with due weight the life and works of the person.
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American professional football player who is a quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL).
The lead proffered by Centurion is too brief for a "B" class article and is somewhat undue in asserting that JJM won three consecutive Big Ten championships since he was a freshman backup in 2021. Until there's more to say about a pro career, my proposed lead would be something along these lines:
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL). He was selected 10th overall by the Vikings in the 2024 NFL draft.
McCarthy played college football for the Michigan Wolverines from 2021 to 2023. After serving as a backup in 2021, he became Michigan's starting quarterback as a sophomore and led the 2022 team to an undefeated regular season, a Big Ten Conference championship, and a berth in the 2022–23 College Football Playoff. As a junior, he led the 2023 Michigan team to a perfect season (15–0) and the program's first national championship since 1997. He was also selected as the 2023 Big Ten Quarterback of the Year. He finished his college career with a 27–1 record (.964) as a starting quarterback, the highest winning percentage in FBS history.
McCarthy played high school football at Nazareth Academy in La Grange Park, Illinois, and then IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida. He led IMG to a high school football national championship in 2020.
Cbl62 ( talk) 21:22, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
& for the record he accounted for 640 total yards with seven touchdowns in 2021, and as Jweiss said played in many critical moments. It may not be an exorbitant amount, but its surely worth counting him as a member of the 2021 Big Ten Championship he won. Centurion Seraph ( talk) 02:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
References
There are a few players that did not player or even make an NFL team yet they have Wikipedia pages. Is it important enough or no? WhyIsThisSoHard575483838 ( talk) 17:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
I have nominated List of Minnesota Vikings starting quarterbacks for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:25, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Looking at Chicago Bears, it seems that Template:Infobox NFL team is getting too long with less notable lists like the team's historical list of owners and presidents. They don't seem more notable than head coaches and GMs, and comes off as worshipping organizational hierachy. Certainly useful information, which I suggest moving into the body and sourcing (eventually). Then we can remove the parameters from the infobox.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 |
Should an article be made for the referee debacle in the cowboys-Lions game? It could be called Decker Reported Eligible, similar to the Dez Caught It article, or the Fail Mary article. It did receive coverage 8 days after the incident, and while the NFL didn’t change the rules it did prompt a reaction from them. Plus, this play is why Dallas earned the #2 seed and the Lions were stuck in seed #3, so this did have significant playoff implications. This explains that. 69.118.230.235 ( talk) 16:58, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 05:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article.
This is a pretty minor thing, but I wonder if we could find consensus against preserving in articles the use of the phrase "former American football [position]".
Rockchalk717 recently
disputed a change to "American former football center" contra
MOS:NATIONALITY, which says bios should usually
begin with a person's nationality, rather than omit nationality and use "American" to modify the sport. As
Bagumba has
previously written, they did not renounce their citizenship, they are not former Americans, but rather American former football players
. Rockchalk argues that "American football" should be written as one in order to not confuse non-American English speakers
. I don't share this concern; as Bagumba
writes, Per
MOS:TIES, use American English, as it's just called "football". All the other non-U.S. soccer players just use "football" as per British English
. Most
NFL FAs use just "football", not "American football". I hope others agree "former American" isn't a desirable phrasing.
Hameltion (
talk |
contribs)
17:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Robert Mann (April 8, 1924 – October 21, 2006) was an American professional football player in the National Football League (NFL).
Two thoughts. Firstly, the sport is American football, named to distinguish it from other codes such as association football (soccer), Rugby football, and other. And since Wikipedia is written for an international audience, the full name of the sport should be used on first mention, which means "American" should not be separated from "football", even if the players' nationality is American.
Secondly, the current guidance is ungrammatical, based on overthinking and a failure to grasp context, and should be rewritten. Adjectives in English always go in the order opinion-size-age-shape-color-origin-material-purpose. "Former" is a relative age. Nationality is an origin. "Former American X" is grammatically correct. "American former X" is not. And it in no way can correctly be read as meaning someone's nationality changed.
The first phrasing cannot be properly read as "former" applying to "American" because "American" in this construct is an adjective, not a noun, and only adverbs modify adjectives. If it were saying the person's nationality had changed it would be written as "formerly American", with the adverb form. Instead "former" and "American" are two distinct and independent adjective both applying to the same noun. The current guidance is bad English based on a failure to actually understand parts of speech and should be tossed out.
As for the applicability when American football is being discussed, since the "American" shouldn't be dropped for clarity to the international readership, rephrasing to say "former American football player from the United States" is preferable. oknazevad ( talk) 19:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the full name of the sport should be used on first mention: The sport name is "football". We use natural disambiguation because each page must have a different name. That page title is preferable to football (American). But just because we have a long page title like quarterback sack, doesn't mean that plain sack isn't the consise term once the context is established. Or that we must use placekicker instead of piping to kicker. Non-American soccer bios generally don't show association football due to MOS:TIES. It's football played by a footballer, strange as that is to an American. — Bagumba ( talk) 19:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 06:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the (formal, not colloquial) English of that nation.
is a former Canadian American football placekickerin the National Football League (NFL)Who can understand what his real situation is without knowing his actual bio? — Bagumba ( talk) 20:19, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Geoffrey Stephen Christie (born November 13, 1967) is a Canadian former professional football player in the National Football League (NFL) and Canadian Football League (CFL)...sounds real good to me. Don't support "former American" in any way. Just sounds like poor English. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
On July 2, 2007, Christie joined the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League by signing a practice roster agreement with the team. On the signing, Christie pointed out that one reason for joining the team was "basically doing Michael (Clemons) a favour" as a former college teammate and that it was tentatively for one game. The other reason was that as a Canadian citizen, playing one game in the CFL, would be great way to finish his career.[3] Christie was activated to play on July 7, 2007 against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I would propose that the standard for an NFL bio of a retired player should be:
PLAYER NAME (BIRTHDATE – DEATHDATE) is a[n] NATIONALITY former professional football player in the National Football League (NFL).
Some addenda:
This meets WP:NATIONALITY, is grammatically correct, sounds encyclopedic, and per Bagumba's earlier comment, "American football" isn't necessary to understand the person's notability. The fact they are a "professional" (for bios that relate to professionals and not just college players) is typically what makes them notable. The exact sport they played, assuming the reader is a complete novice, will be made evident in the bio or can be easily understood by clicking on the football link. As an aside, college football isn't college American football, because "college football" is a collective noun. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
identifying they played in the NFL establishes they were professional: Not to readers unfamiliar with the NFL or American football. "professional" is fairly common in the lead sentence of other sports' bios.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 05:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Use a link when appropriate, but as far as possible do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence.
So professional has to be added due to the fact he's an American playing American football: No, there's thousands of English soccer players with professional in their lead sentence. [6] — Bagumba ( talk) 06:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
...but back to back links is hardly a sea of blue: It's either back-to-back or it isn't. There is no half back-to-back. Aside from MOS:SEAOFBLUE being a community guideline, leaving them invites people to get cute and just pipe to one link like this.— Bagumba ( talk) 11:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
I have nominated List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers seasons for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
An offshoot to the last discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 23 § Question on Player Team Categories, where we discussed team categories and inbox team listings of players who never actually played a regular season game with said team.
Is this NFL project "claiming" the player, and using the {{ Infobox NFL player}} on their bio instead of {{ infobox college football player}}? (Courtesy ping to Sergio Skol, who recently changed a similar player to use the college infobox. [7]) — Bagumba ( talk) 04:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
A couple days ago, I updated the URL code for Template:Profootballhof, which had been out of date for a long while. But all the individual transclusions needs to be updated as well, like with this edit. I've done a few but there are 200+ that need updating; see https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Profootballhof&limit=500. Jweiss11 ( talk) 16:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
What is the protocol for linking duplicate season years in the infobox? For example, Joshua Dobbs was on three different rosters in 2023, and the 2023 NFL season is linked for each instance. My reading of MOS:REPEATLINK is that only the first instance of 2023 in the infobox should be linked, but maybe I am incorrect. OceanGunfish ( talk) 14:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
This RM to lowercase the titling of National Signing Day may be of interest to participants of this WikiProject. Randy Kryn ( talk) 05:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
Kansas City Chiefs has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm Talk 18:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
With my recent creations of John Holahan, Francis Fogarty, Arch Wolfe, Fran Foley and John Blackinger, it appears that every person to have served as a general manager in the NFL among current teams now has an article!!! This was one of my earliest goals I set at Wikipedia BeanieFan11 ( talk) 01:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
As part of my general manager quest, I started up in my userspace a list of general managers for defunct teams, with the goal of finding who managed every team in every year in NFL history (also AAFC). Currently have 15 teams complete (in knowing who served as general manager), 2 partially complete, whereas I have not yet found the general managers for 34 franchises. Help in finding these would be appreciated. Thanks, BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:02, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured topics/Green Bay Packers presidents! I started it in 2018....... almost 6 years. And the fun thing is that Mark Murphy (American football executive) is going to retire next year, which means I'll have to add one more GA after the new president is announced haha. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
With my creations of Dick Harris and Joe Gray, it also now appears that every first-round draft pick in NFL history now has an article! BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi, for anyone who is feeling an urge to create new articles for this project and for college football, there are a ton of requested articles at Wikipedia:Requested articles/Sports/American football for a variety of subjects, from players and coaches to rivalries and terminology. Some of these have been lingering around for awhile with no action. Feel free to be bold, help create some new articles and expand Wikipedia's coverage of American football! Fretyr ( talk) 16:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
I know the last proposal got shot down, but I found coverage of the incident on March 25, 2024. As such, WP:SUSTAINED is covered to some degree. 69.118.230.235 ( talk) 22:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at this topic on Wikidata ?
The question is about a dewiki article about "fake", and Play-action for which they also have an article. We're wondering if it's a duplicate or if there are several kind of "fake" in football and "play-action" is a special case ? TomT0m ( talk) 19:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Copying from WT:AMF, since this project is more active. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
There are still so many articles that have "National Football League" in them (i.e. National Football League All-Decade Teams, National Football League 50th Anniversary All-Time Team, National Football League on American television, National Football League player conduct policy, National Football League Rookie of the Year Award, National Football League controversies, etc. With the RM at NFL, should these all get moved? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
What about adding the information of a former NFL player becoming a head coach? For example, former linebacker Jerod Mayo played with the New England Patriots from 2008-2015. In 2024, he was selected as the new head coach for the New England Patriots, replacing Bill Belichick. Abhiramakella ( talk) 22:31, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
position – used to display the player's most frequently played position. Positions must be listed as they are at ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:American football positions.Per this, coaching or other non-player positions should not be listed in this field. Just to note, one of the more famous player/coaches, Curly Lambeau, lists his playing position, even though he only played for 10 years and coached for over 30. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I've always been bugged by the naming of this article. Like of all the different names, this is not the common name:
Thoughts? I'm leaning towards just Johnny Blood. Simple, easy, no punctuation marks and generally the common name ("John" and "Blood" are included in each name). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:27, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:National Football League Players Association#Requested move 29 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 14:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Hello everyone, recently I've been working hard on updating and improving the uniform template and images used to represent the NFL teams' uniforms. An example can be seen here, where the image is anti-aliased so that users may edit it with greater ease and the image reflects great accuracy towards the new uniforms. I currently have images finished for the Jets, Browns, and Lions, and I am currently working on the Texans. There is also the 28 other teams I plan to work on over the next month or so. I can't upload anything yet, so I'm wondering how I would approach contributing these new images? ExpergeTech ( talk) 15:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
I've caught a serious issue that may require this project's attention. At some point in the 2010s, {{ Infobox gridiron football person}} (and a variant-capitalization redirect from {{ Infobox Gridiron football person}}) were redirected to {{ Infobox Canadian Football League biography}} — but the problem is that since NFL football is obviously also gridiron, this has resulted in a lot of NFL players who never had anything whatsoever to do with the CFL, but whose articles are currently using the CFL infobox because they were using gridiron and then got "corrected" (or because they're still using gridiron but it's functioning as a redirect to the CFL template.)
Obviously that redirect should never have happened in the first place, since NFL football is also gridiron and it was never safe to assume that gridiron always meant CFL, but because it did happen, there are a lot of people that currently have the wrong infobox on them. Can this project initiate some kind of process of cleaning this up? Bearcat ( talk) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Update: I have recreated the generic "gridiron football person" as a standalone template, as it existed prior to the page move, and updated the documentation from the obviously incorrect "only for CFL players" to a "please move people to one of the more specific NFL, AFL, CFL or college football infoboxes where possible" statement. I'll file a bot request later today, but there's a bit of other cleanup work I have to get through first, like removing the maintenance category from the people I've already added it to who don't need it anymore given that I've recreated the old template. Bearcat ( talk) 18:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
So on the discussion about the way we describe what team a player played for in college in February, Bagumba ( talk · contribs) says "I'd suggest modifying the body to something like "Araiza committed to play college football at San Diego State University (SDSU) for the Aztecs..." I've seen the argument made that non-sports fans and non-Americans may be more familiar with the university, so a link to it at some point makes the connection more obvious." but what amount of support does this have? It has become an issue on J. J. McCarthy's page, where Centurion Seraph ( talk · contribs) continues to revert every edit returning to the former. Could we please settle this once and for all and codify it as a guideline one way or the other? ~ Dissident93 ( talk) 21:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
[[Michigan Wolverines football|University of Michigan]]
per
MOS:EGG. —
Bagumba (
talk)
00:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
...codify it as a guideline one way or the other?: There's an example at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format § Lead — Bagumba ( talk) 00:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
I am having some difficulty in a Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Patrick Omameh/1 review. I am being asked to expand a biography of a mediocre player beyond what I feel is normal. The summaries of the sources I am finding expand upon his mediocrity in a manner that I don't feel is very encyclopedic. The first two sources that I have dug into have resulted in the this expansion. Is this what we want?- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Reposted from my original comment at WP:WISCONSIN
Hi all, I am working on bringing Packers Heritage Trail to WP:FLC. I recently traveled as part of a longer work trip to Green Bay last week, with the goal of getting photos of each historic site along the trail. However, unfortunately it rained pretty much the whole day I was in Green Bay. I was able to get a few photos but the rain and my tight schedule meant I missed out on a good number. I was wondering if there were any Green Bay residents in this Project who would be up for grabbing a few photos for me? If so, I would greatly appreciate it! Please let me know, even if you can only grab a few, and I can kind of explain what the photos for each site could look like. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
It is hard to write lineman article. Does anyone keep statistics like the average time a lineman holds his block in pass protection, the frequency of pancake blocks, yards per rush through off of his shoulder, yards before contact off of his shoulder, and/or missed assignment tackle for a loss frequency. It would be a lot easier to write offensive lineman articles if we had stats for them.- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Rodgers threw for 318 yards, two touchdowns, and two interceptions in the regular season finale against the Bearsover and over and over. It's bad enough with stats that are routinely reported (yards, TDs) but would be absurd to report on niche stats for lineman. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
How is this possible? UCO2009bluejay ( talk) 01:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Disambiguating with (football) for football players, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion ( talk | contribs) 21:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I suggest don't add career records for players who are still active. Why? Well, I think it'll cause too many inaccuracy in infoboxes.
E.g. Justin Jefferson holds the record for most career receiving yards per game with 98.3. When he plays one more game, for example, it'll be 99.5, 97.5, etc. So we will need to change it after every game he plays.
Also, Patrick Mahomes holds the record for career playoff passer rating (minimum 150 attempts) with 105.8 and career passing yards per game (minimum 1,500 attempts): 296.1. Once again, we will need to change it after every game he plays. And additionally for these last two, IMO are arbitrary records and they shouldn't be added in infoboxes. (See: WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT) Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
There's still work to do relating to the 2024 NFL draft if anybody's interested. A number of the picks are missing text in the body that they were selected and/or need further cleanup (see e.g. these edits). Many of the undrafted free agent signings also need to be updated with text about their signing, the appropriate navboxes, NFL talk page banners, etc. Any help would be appreciated. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A review I received Based on Common draft on my featured list nomination of List of Kansas City Chiefs first-round draft picks asked for a bit more clarity on what the common draft is. Upon looking at common draft, I noticed it references only the drafts from 1967–1969 ( 1969 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft, 1969 NFL/AFL draft). Template:NFL drafts also refers to that same set of 3 drafts as the "common draft", and everything after 1970 as the "modern era". Depending on where you look, "modern era" is often used to refer to the Super Bowl era, which, arguably started in 1967 or 1970. Never the less, I think for drafts, we typically refer to it as the common draft era as opposed to the modern era, whereas for seasons and championships, we may refer to it as the modern/Super Bowl era.
I believe the term "common draft" should be referring to everything from 1967 onwards and that the common draft and the NFL drafts template mistakenly imply that the common draft and modern era are separate eras. The phrase "common draft" is simply meant to refer to the fact that the leagues combined their drafts, which they started doing in 1967. They began simply calling it the "NFL draft", but it's, never the less, been the "common draft" since then.
A number of sources that explicitly reference the common draft era as having started from 1967 onwards:
Essentially, what I'm asking, is for consensus to update Template:NFL drafts to remove "modern era" and move all of those entries to "common draft". I'd also love consensus (and for someone to be willing) to update the common draft article. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at the talk page of List of first overall NFL draft picks. I would like to rework the list and get it promoted to featured list status. I'd appreciate any feedback at the discussion on the talk page. Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm looking for ideas for featured topics that are primarily lists, as I want to contribute to a good or featured topic but I don't want to do GAs or FAs.
Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated, as I'm looking for new things to promote to featured list status now that I'm finished with the first-round pick lists (28 promoted, 2 nominated, last 2 prepped and ready for nomination but there's limits to how many I can nom at once). Hey man im josh ( talk) 20:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
RM being held concerning playoff games in the NFL's history. GoodDay ( talk) 20:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
And now move reviews of these at WP:MRV#1933 NFL Championship Game and WP:MRV#AFC Championship Game. Dicklyon ( talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Also
RM being held concerning UFL playoff games. --
GoodDay (
talk)
03:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May includes two move reviews, one for the NFL Championship Game and one for the AFC Championship Game (which would also include the NFC Championship Game), which may be of interest to project members. Randy Kryn ( talk) 14:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I am really struggling with these "List of XXX players" lists. There are some ( List of Chicago Tigers players) that are difficult to even define as an actual functional article. They are wildly different in format, some of which contend to be a comprehensive list of a team's players ( List of San Francisco 49ers players), some that include additional details about each player ( List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers players) and some that just highlight key players found in other smaller team lists ( List of Chicago Bears players). However, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all wildly out-of-date and likely to continue to be. Unlike basketball (see Portland Trail Blazers all-time roster), NFL team's these days have huge rosters, with easily 60+ players playing at least one game a season. For some older clubs, we are talking about thousands of players, for 32 teams. The task of maintaining a true all-time roster for modern NFL clubs is a monumental, and I would argue, unlikely and pointless endeavor that is more appropriate for Categorization or external sources (such as Pro-Football-Reference). I would also argue that maintaining an all-time roster for NFL teams, considering how large their rosters are and how often players move from team-to-team, falls into WP:NOTSTATS territory.
Thinking this through, I have a proposal for how to address these lists in a way that makes them functional and maintainable:
I know this may seem drastic, but from the perspective of quality, navigability and ease of editor maintenance, this is the simplest and most straightforward solution. It would allow us to standardize the format of these pages and point readers into their likely direction (finding smaller, more defined lists). Think about it, if I would like to know who has played for the Packers, I would either look that person up on Wikipedia or I would go to PFR or some other stat website. I honestly struggle to understand how a page like this, for example List of Jacksonville Jaguars players, could be helpful to a Wikipedia reader, even if it is actively maintained and accurate. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I am proposing we remove NFL.com links from player infoboxes completely. After the website nuked the player stats pages in 2020, they have become mostly unusable/irrelevant. This is in addition to
over 11,000 broken links from that 2020 change. Unless there is any opposition to the change, I will deprecate the |nfl=
parameter from
Template:Infobox NFL biography in a week.
Eagles
24/7
(C)
19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
|nfl=
and |nflnew=
parameters now show up as deprecated.
Category:Pages using infobox NFL biography with unsupported parameters is beginning to populate with every article still using those parameters, so someone can use AWB to clean those up.
Eagles
24/7
(C)
23:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Asking if we should use the actual names of the ones used in the past (before the 2011 season)
@
Centurion Seraph thinks we should use [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]]
and I think we should keep links as simply as possible using [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year]]
according to
WP:NOPIPE and
WP:NOTBROKEN, because the
Tatum–Woodson Defensive Back of the Year (e. g.) redirect to the right section.
No other conferences have awards named after any players, so why add the "Big Ten"? Those links doesn't work ( Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year and Big Ten Quarterback of the Year are red links)
So should we leave out "Big Ten"? Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No other conferences have conference awards named after players...: For the record, the Pac-12 has (or had?) the Pat Tillman Defensive Player of the Year.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Conference specific awards shouldn't be included otherwise.(responding to @Hey man im josh's comment here due to outdent above): A conference's off or def POY is more exclusive than their 11 or 22 all-conference selections on each side. What's the rationale for excluding them over all-conf? We can drop conference and even national freshman honors.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Ohio State star wide receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. was named the Big Ten Graham-George Offensive Player of the Year Wednesday, marking a sixth straight season in which one of the Buckeyes was so recognized.[10]— Bagumba ( talk) 17:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
I stumbled across Billy Shields after some random clicking of Wikilinks, and figured I take a shot at expanding it a bit. However, I've hit a speed bump in the form of a paywall regarding what happened to Shields after being traded by the Chargers to the Vikings before the 1984 season but then being signed by the 49ers after the season began. One guess is that Shields was released by the Vikings without even playing in a game, and then picked up by the Niners. This book, however, seems to suggest that Shields was released by the Chargers and then claimed off waivers by the Niners, which might mean the trade with Minnesota fell through for some reason. Anyway, I think the answer can be found here, but I'm not interested in subscribing to the Washington Post just to access the article. So, I wondering if anyone else has access to the article or perhaps can find an alternative source that can help clarify what happened between the Vikings and Shields. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 07:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
San Francisco 49ers -- Signed offensive tackle Billy Shields, 6-8, 280-pound Pro Bowl alternate the past two years. Shields had left the San Diego Chargers in training camp because of a contract dispute. He then was traded to Minnesota, but that deal was voided when Shields and the Vikings could not come to terms. Shields was waived formally by the Chargers last week. To make room for Shields, the 49ers waived center John Macauley.
I did some Googling and found some more stull about Shield's post NFL-career that might be encyclopedically relevant but I'm not sure about it sourcing. The first one is 2012 San Madre CA Patch article which discusses Shield's involvement in a local development project. The article referneces Shields a number of times and referes to him as a former executive VP for a company called Sunrise Senior Living as well as the founder of a LLC called Fountain Square Development. The article isn't exactly flattering per se, and Patch Media doesn't seem to be considered much of a reliable source based on varous discussions found in the WP:RSN archives. Still, this might help lead to other sources for this type of information (like this and this) that can somehow be used. The other item I found is related to a 2012 concusion injury lawsuit filed by a number of former NFL players against the NFL in Pennsylvania. Shields is listed as plaitiff 192 and there's some brief biographical information about him found on page 77. The lawsuit itself is a primary source, but I'm wondering if it's sufficent for supporting content about Shield's wife and his involvement in the lawsuit. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Team | FLs | Division |
---|---|---|
Arizona Cardinals | 2 | NFC West |
Atlanta Falcons | 3 | NFC South |
Baltimore Ravens | 3 | AFC North |
Buffalo Bills | 1 | AFC East |
Carolina Panthers | 2 | NFC South |
Chicago Bears | 3 | NFC North |
Cincinnati Bengals | 1 | AFC North |
Cleveland Browns | 2 | AFC North |
Dallas Cowboys | 1 | NFC East |
Denver Broncos | 2 | AFC West |
Detroit Lions | 3 | NFC North |
Green Bay Packers | 13 | NFC North |
Houston Texans | 2 | AFC South |
Indianapolis Colts | 3 | AFC South |
Jacksonville Jaguars | 1 | AFC South |
Kansas City Chiefs | 2 | AFC West |
Las Vegas Raiders | 2 | AFC West |
Los Angeles Chargers | 4 | AFC West |
Los Angeles Rams | 3 | NFC West |
Miami Dolphins | 1 | AFC East |
Minnesota Vikings | 3 | NFC North |
New England Patriots | 3 | AFC East |
New Orleans Saints | 3 | NFC South |
New York Giants | 3 | NFC East |
New York Jets | 2 | AFC East |
Philadelphia Eagles | 2 | NFC East |
Pittsburgh Steelers | 2 | AFC North |
San Francisco 49ers | 2 | NFC West |
Seattle Seahawks | 2 | NFC West |
Tampa Bay Buccaneers | 1 | NFC South |
Tennessee Titans | 2 | AFC South |
Washington Commanders | 3 | NFC East |
Total | 82 | — |
Division | FLs |
---|---|
NFC North | 22 |
NFC East | 9 |
NFC South | 9 |
NFC West | 9 |
AFC North | 8 |
AFC East | 7 |
AFC South | 8 |
AFC West | 10 |
Note: This list includes four current featured list nominations (Packers x2, Bengals x1, Jaguars x1) which are on track to be promoted.
I thought this would be an interesting bit of information about our WikiProject to share. Hopefully it motivates people to work on getting their team better represented! It certainly has for me, and I have two additional Detroit Lions listed prepped and ready for nomination, as well as 4 other Lions lists that are works in progress which will also eventually be nominated. Credit to @ Gonzo fan2007 for being responsible for all 13 of the Packers' lists. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
We continue to face infobox bloat as conferences continue to add more and more awards to what's given out every year. Based on the above discussion, and in the spirit of keeping awards listed in the infobox to only the most notable/important awards, I'd like to formally propose that we exclude conference awards, with exceptions, from the infobox.
Include:
Exclude:
Conference specific exclusions that are already noted at WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT:
Please voice your concerns, support, or opposition as appropriate. Pinging those who were involved in the above discussion: @ Sergio Skol, @ Centurion Seraph, @ Bagumba, @ UCO2009bluejay. Hey man im josh ( talk) 13:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 14:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article...The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content.
The same four people talking dont speak for 99.9% of the editors who aren't reading or able to voice there opinions.: We can only go by people who choose to comment. Consensus can change too, if people happen to chime in later.— Bagumba ( talk) 05:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Skipping the editing phase automatically eliminates any opposition before consensus is already reached and enforced" If someone disagrees after the fact, they discuss it here, and that's when consensus can change. On the flip side, if it wasn't discussed first before editing, there's a certain segment of editors that will automatically delete merely because it "didn't already have consensus" It's a catch-22. — Bagumba ( talk) 08:09, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 01:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Do not use articles from Wikipedia (whether English Wikipedia or Wikipedias in other languages) as sources, since Wikipedia is a user-generated source...Content from a Wikipedia article is not considered reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources. Confirm that these sources support the content, then use them directly.
— Bagumba ( talk) 19:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Instead of removing content from an article or reverting a new contribution, consider...Formatting or sourcing on the spot
Noting that I've left a notice at Template talk:Infobox NFL biography and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format about this discussion. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Was reading
Willard Dewveall and noticed there's a long-standing statement that In 1962, Dewveall caught the (then) longest pass reception for a touchdown in professional football history, 98 yards, from Jacky Lee, against the San Diego Chargers.
However, this doesn't seem right as
Frank Filchock is listed as having thrown a 99-yard TD pass to
Andy Farkas in 1939 at
99-yard pass play. Thoughts?
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
References
On J. J. McCarthy’s page there has been a four editor debate regarding his lead for the last 72+ hours. (@ Cbl62 @ Bluerules @ Jweiss11) It’s been an even stand off, at times reaching a 3-1 agreement, but now its getting even further distorted with new edits again. We have all made an exhausting amount of edits and reversions, Im trying to learn and debate this in a more proper manner. As it cant be remedied through his talk page with evolving edits, keeping this cyclical.
The current version and editor refutes that he won three big ten titles, which I disagree, and wants a season by season recap, including his early life and high school career added at the forefront of the lead. Burying all his major accomplishments in 2023. I believe it should read as follows…
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football for the Michigan Wolverines, winning a national championship as a junior in 2023. The program’s first since 1997. He also won a third consecutive Big Ten Conference title and was the Big Ten Quarterback of the Year. McCarthy finished his college career with a 27–1 record (.964) as the starting quarterback, the highest winning percentage in NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) history. He was selected 10th overall by the Vikings in the 2024 NFL draft.
Centurion Seraph ( talk) 18:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
I just don't feel a player's high school career is all that relevant to the lead once they've become a pro. Accomplished HS players are a dime a dozen at that point, and not distinguishing to other pros, save perhaps of national honors. — Bagumba ( talk) 23:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)The lead section should summarise with due weight the life and works of the person.
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American professional football player who is a quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL).
The lead proffered by Centurion is too brief for a "B" class article and is somewhat undue in asserting that JJM won three consecutive Big Ten championships since he was a freshman backup in 2021. Until there's more to say about a pro career, my proposed lead would be something along these lines:
Jonathan James McCarthy (born January 20, 2003) is an American football quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League (NFL). He was selected 10th overall by the Vikings in the 2024 NFL draft.
McCarthy played college football for the Michigan Wolverines from 2021 to 2023. After serving as a backup in 2021, he became Michigan's starting quarterback as a sophomore and led the 2022 team to an undefeated regular season, a Big Ten Conference championship, and a berth in the 2022–23 College Football Playoff. As a junior, he led the 2023 Michigan team to a perfect season (15–0) and the program's first national championship since 1997. He was also selected as the 2023 Big Ten Quarterback of the Year. He finished his college career with a 27–1 record (.964) as a starting quarterback, the highest winning percentage in FBS history.
McCarthy played high school football at Nazareth Academy in La Grange Park, Illinois, and then IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida. He led IMG to a high school football national championship in 2020.
Cbl62 ( talk) 21:22, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
& for the record he accounted for 640 total yards with seven touchdowns in 2021, and as Jweiss said played in many critical moments. It may not be an exorbitant amount, but its surely worth counting him as a member of the 2021 Big Ten Championship he won. Centurion Seraph ( talk) 02:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
References
There are a few players that did not player or even make an NFL team yet they have Wikipedia pages. Is it important enough or no? WhyIsThisSoHard575483838 ( talk) 17:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
I have nominated List of Minnesota Vikings starting quarterbacks for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:25, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Looking at Chicago Bears, it seems that Template:Infobox NFL team is getting too long with less notable lists like the team's historical list of owners and presidents. They don't seem more notable than head coaches and GMs, and comes off as worshipping organizational hierachy. Certainly useful information, which I suggest moving into the body and sourcing (eventually). Then we can remove the parameters from the infobox.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)