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There are several articles that are really and truly badly done (poorly presented, badly written, heavily biased in one way or anohter, etc). There really should be "poor" score (ie, below "stub-class"). 65.102.19.175 ( talk) 05:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)A REDDSON
I've come across several articles that seem to qualify all B-class criteria, but the lead section is only a sentence or two. The rest of the article is very good, well referenced and includes supporting material as well. There's just this problem of the lead being too short. And as criteria B3 says ...defined structure, including a lead section..., I'm not sure what to do here. What should I do with them, pass or not? Chamal talk 15:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
If a lead section is a brief overview of the article, then does it also have to have a citation? Or can it "ride" off the citations in the body of the article?
Georgejdorner ( talk) 18:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
After Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Polish culture during World War II and Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Kostiuchnówka, I have to say I am disappointed by the A-class mechanism (at least as compared to FA review mechanism). There primary reason for my disappointment is that the reviewers often post their criticism, and never check back to see if they are replies; even when notified that their comments have been addressed they may still not check back. There is also no indication that the closing MILHIST reviewer notified them that they have comments awaiting, or that he took note that their comments were addressed. On FAs, if the reviewers don't check back, the FA director or his assistants will at the very least review how the comments were addressed and if they were addressed sufficiently, they will treat the oppose vote as not valid. At MILHIST, this doesn't seem to happen. I have to say that those last two A-class processes have significantly damaged my faith in the high quality of MILHIST processes :( -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm currently in the process of trying to get the Lee-Enfield article promoted to "A" class and am constantly banging my head against a brick wall in regards to extremely petty and trivial (IMHO) Manual of Style issues. To my mind, things like "the wrong kind of hyphen/dash" being used in the article are the difference between a GA and an FA, and even then I personally think it's completely irrelevant- for example, the "-" and the "–" both look identical to me and, I suspect, 98.5% of Wiki readers. Getting bogged down in this sort of minutiae is keeping a lot of otherwise A-class articles from being anything more than B-class articles, I think. So, I'd like to propose that we remove the "Style Guidelines" requirement of A-Class articles (or at least use a "Near Enough" test), and instead keep the silliness regarding dash sizes, having the blatantly obvious referenced, and so on for FA-class articles. Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
No extra review layer please. I know I must be one of the annoying guys out there, but our leaders, ie Kirill and Roger, like to take pride or emphasise that A-class is much closer than FA than GA, and at the end of 2007, WRT MOS issues and especially, as a regular at ACR and GAC, the A-class reviews were lurching towards GA and in some MOS cases were worse than GAs, with some articles getting through with simply bare URL links whacked in the middle of the text and inconsistent and unformatted refs everywhere. The only way to soften A-class reviews is to drop ourselves below GA standard. GA isn't as hopeless as everyone thinks. Some old A-class articles are worse than a lot of GAs. YellowMonkey ( click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 00:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I think Milhist is uncommonly fortunate in that it's an active, well-organised project with a knowledgeable membership, and can maintain a high-quality A-Class review system. Many other articles come under projects with a much smaller, less active membership, and must rely on external assessments for validation. However, I don't think I could support abandoning the GA WikiProject to replace GAN with our own GA-Class assessment. For one thing, although articles assessed this way can be awarded our WikiProject GA-Class, they still wouldn't have GA status (ie, they wouldn't appear on WP:GA), as this can only be awarded through GAN. Secondly, I believe it does an article (and perhaps editors too!) good to step outside their parent project once in a while. We even have our own Peer Review process, so other than FAC, GAN is the only place an article might get a completely uninvolved outside assessment on its way up the ladder. Not every article will reach (or is suitable for) FA, which makes an external review at GAN a worthwhile and achievable end-point for some. Having said that, there are some very thought-provoking suggestions above for closing the B/A gap. As far as I've understood them, I've tried clarifying and summarising them below (as much for my own benefit as anything else; please make corrections/additions etc as necessary!) and added a couple of my own permutations:
There are obviously many other possibilities. Note that these aren't intended to be proposals, just an attempt to set out some of the options. I do wonder if it might be worthwhile to decouple GA status from the assessment scheme by removing GA-Class altogether (per suggestions 2 and 3), whether we fill in the gap with anything or not. We could then have A-Class and B-Class (and possibly even C-Class) Good Articles, and rather than trying to fit GA status into a hierarchy it's not really intended for, it can be used as a measure of an article's compliance with Wikipedia's policies on copyright, verifiability etc. Content can be evaluated where the content experts are - within MilHist. EyeSerene talk 13:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I can appreciate the frustration that project-specific assessment scales cause to the folks at V1.0, but I don't subscribe to the view that a universally-applicable set of project assessment criteria is achievable or even desirable. However, Le Deluge and Cdr Zulu have made some very good points in emphasising that we seem to have gone too far, in that we've created a system with nothing in-between the two pivotal points - GA and FA - that a writer can aim for. We're essentially forcing writers to either stop at GA or go the whole hog to FA, and in the cost/benefit terms that Le Deluge examines it, perhaps that's not so beneficial to the project. Looking at our criteria though, they're really not that different from the V1.0 criteria. Perhaps we should be looking instead at the way they're being applied? EyeSerene talk 13:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
<==We keep mentioning here that the difference between A- and FA-Class is one of MoS tweaks, but I'd like to re-emphasize that one very great difference between a pretty darn good article and a Featured one is that the writing style of the latter has been raked, combed, polished and waxed until the article speaks with one voice. Too many A- and below articles have abrupt changes in writing style between paragraphs and even between sentences... It's just one of the normal results of multi-editor wiki-style article accretion. My 2¢. Binksternet ( talk) 02:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay - I was off, umm, editing articles.... And apologies for the ramble last time - longer than I planned, sounds like Ed had the same problem. :-)
Ed, I understand what you're saying I do genuinely appreciate the offer of help with regard to formatting/MoS issues in articles. But I still respectfully disagree with your zealousness regarding page references etc.
Using the Lee-Enfield article as an example, I have used five major sources for the article: Ian Skennerton's The Lee-Enfield(which is acknowledged by every military firearm collector as being the definitive text on the subject) along with their Small Arms Identification Series companions (by the same author and held in the same regard as The Lee-Enfield), a facsimile edition of the 1943 Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B Smith (another respected author on the subject of military firearms, and written in the middle of WWII), various articles from Australian Shooter and Australian Shooter's Journal magazine (which covers a lot of the "anecdotal" stuff not found in Academic or Technical works), and a reprint of the 1929 War Office Textbook of Small Arms. They are listed in the "References" section of the article, should anyone wish to read them to gain a fuller understanding of the subject.
The Lee-Enfield Article is a very, very long, very, very involved article. I have provided an insane number of in-line references for most of the stuff in the article, which is frustrating because it's incredibly time consuming and results in me having to pore through reference texts that I already know the contents of (The Lee-Enfield is 608 pages long, FTR) to find page numbers to back up statements that I know are correct because I've read them in the book somewhere, or in (multiple) other reference texts (which I may or may not have a copy of handy), or from Knowledgeable And Respected Posters on Prominent Forums on the Internet, or have discovered myself through first-hand experience (which is disqualified under WP:NOR, but that's another rant entirely).
There is a point in an article, I feel, where an editor has provided more than enough in-line citations, print references, external links, and other supporting information that a certain percentage of stuff in the article that is technically "unreferenced" (in that it is not supported by an in-line cite) can and should be allowed to pass under both the
WP General Reference guidelines and as a form of "professional courtesy" (I'm not sure if that's exactly the term); i.e. we are all (or should be) Gentlemen/Lady Scholars, many of whom have been on Wiki for a number of years, and having established our credentials as Upstanding Members of the MILHIST Community, I think that some leeway (or "benefit of doubt", if you like) should be given with regards to uncited statements that are consistent with the rest of the information in the article, aren't too outlandish, and are NPOV.
For example, Ed, if I was looking over one of your ship articles and saw a statement added by yourself to the effect that the USS Whatchamacallit had twin propellors made of titanium instead of steel, but no cite, I would think "Well, Ed knows his stuff and he's a reliable chap, and if he says that's the case then he probably just can't find a reference for it at the moment but knows it's correct, so I'll take his word for it." Obviously this sort of thing needs to be employed carefully, but I trust you can all see what I'm getting at. (And I'm not singling Ed out personally, he just had the reply before mine :p) Look, ultimately, I don't think people actually go and look up the page references from stuff they see on Wikipedia, and the in-line cite requirement is basically to keep everyone honest. Which is fine, but ultimately it gets to a level where an article's editor has made their point (ie, I'm not making this up, and if you're that interested you can look up the specifics here), and adding more and more and more in-line cites from the same reference(s) just ends up being redundant, time-consuming, frustrating, and most importantly, unrewarding.
Commander Zulu (
talk)
01:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm going out on a limb here since I have only been keeping a loose eye on this ACR related discussion, but given that A-class is itself under siege by WP:1.0 it may be in our projects best interest to adopt a "wait and see" approach to the 1.0 discussion and see what happens there before dashing out to reset our A-class review in any major way. In this manner we can tie this discussion and a potential discussion about encyclopedia-wide ACR changes into each other and kill two birds with one stone. Also, one uncited sentence won't cause an article to fail an ACR, our MoS explicitly states that some articles use a per paragraph citation system, and its that basis that people tend to object on: a lack of citations for a paragraph can and frequently does result in an oppose. TomStar81 ( Talk) 04:42, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I commented that I felt that I would normally give this article a B but in this case deferred to the opinion of Kresock who felt that it did not make the grade. This after giving a B rating to six other similar articles. So I felt obliged to explain myself.
Kresock felt that it is still 'start' because:
The article therefore fails questions #1 and maybe #5. Being an orphan doesn't help much either.
My reasoning on this was as follows:
However my approach was based on my experience as a 20th Century military historian. I had no intention of second-guessing someone who is an expert on the 19th Century, who knows more on the subject, like the availability of photographs. (I also wasn't second guessing whether Confederate "generals" are notable per se.) Hawkeye7 ( talk) 02:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
What would be thought of making the assessment requests a separate subpage, and then transcluding it back into this page? It would keep the moderate amount of assessment traffic from cluttering the edit history of the rest of the article, as well as provide for faster page load times for those of us who use the assessment requests section regularly. — Bellhalla ( talk) 12:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi all, the article Operation Deny Flight has been listed at FAC now for almost 4 weeks, and has drawn virtually no reviewers. So, I'd like to ask you to kindly take a look at the article and then participate in its FAC so that the article can finally pass, or we can resolve whatever issues need attention. Thanks so much! Cool3 ( talk) 23:09, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
I am finding the whole assessment process very obscure, and I have to say it is about to stop me contributing articles, as I find it very frustrating.
I posted a request for B class assessment of Alexander Cavalié Mercer here on 7 April. It got one response on 9 April, criticising the citations, but before I had even seen the response both the request and the response were deleted by Revision as of 00:59, 10 April 2009 (edit) (undo)Abraham, B.S. (talk | contribs). I only found the response by going back through the revision history of this page.
Why were my request and the response deleted? Have they been put somewhere else? In which case I can't find them, so I don't suppose any other contributor can. Is it normal for responses to be deleted within 24 hours, and for requests to be deleted in three days?
I had hoped for more input than one comment, which actually gives no help in improving the article. The B-class review of citation seems to rely on quantity rather than quality, with 34 inline cites for a 21-paragraph article being judged inadequate. I had understood that where a long passage is all derived form one source, one cites the source at the end; but it seems that even to progress beyond start-class it is necessary to go through the entire article putting in page references to the same book for each statement - though that isn't what the help pages say.
If adding citations is going to take longer than writing the article (and the citations are longer than the article) I have better things to do with my time.
A request for peer review produced two comments, which I have dealt with, but no comments on citation. Cyclopaedic ( talk) 08:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Largely I think this is due to the fact that sometimes when assessing articles quickly some assessors (myself sometimes also guilty) do not leave comments on the talk pages on articles as to why they haven't made B class or what can be improved. Also to an extent, I think some contributors do not understand that there is no C class in Military History and therefore some very good articles remain at a Start class. For some people this is like a slap in the face with a dead fish. I don't want to start the whole C-class debate again as it has only just finished after the last election, but I feel that perhaps maybe sometime in the future the idea needs to be revisited.
I was the one who originally assessed the Alexander Mercer article as a start class article. To be honest, I feel it is a reasonably good article, and it would be a C class if it existed. However, as I noted afterwards on the MHA page it wanted for citations in a few paragraphs. That is all. I was not querying the work that had been put into it, or the quality of the citations. I would go through and add the citations myself if I had the book. However, I think what this illustrates is that the ratings system is somewhat arbitary in nature. However, I don't think we could produce a system that is any better at the moment. That is just my opinion. Perhaps the way to overcome this is if, as reviewers, we all make a conscious effort to leave detailed comments on the talk page of the articles we review. AustralianRupert ( talk) 06:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This is to let people know that there is only a day or so left on a poll. The poll is an attempt to end years of argument about autoformatting which has also led to a dispute about date linking. Your votes are welcome at: Wikipedia:Date formatting and linking poll. Regards Lightmouse ( talk) 11:44, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I was looking at the Category:Unassessed military history articles and the following three articles were listed:
These are all Alternate History novels. Do they really fall into the scope of Military History? -- dashiellx ( talk) 11:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, now I'm seeing video games on the list? My fear here is that the scope of Mil History is being expanded to the point where it will be unmanageable.-- dashiellx ( talk) 11:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Alternative history is by definition non-historical, as in, it did not happen, people. History happened. Alternative history didn't.
Georgejdorner ( talk) 03:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
What happened? I thought I'd been keeping on top of these and suddenly I log on and there are over three hundred! Does anyone know what happened? AustralianRupert ( talk) 09:06, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Surely there should be an option to class an article as a List? I wanted to assess List of military writers as a list, as it clearly states in the titles of the article that that is just what it is; a list. Would it be possible to create this parameter? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I read through Operation Crossroads and think it's excellent, and should be a GA candidate. Anyone? Tempshill ( talk) 04:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
So, a good article, yes; rated so, no. TARTARUS talk 20:30, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I've just assessed former FA Defense of Sihang Warehouse, which I felt has too many citation gaps (as well as some POV and image issues) to be B-Class. I therefore rated it as Start; am I being too strict? EyeSerene talk 13:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Boy, this article beings up a lot of questions.
I have had some questions myself about the spacing of citations. One editor has told me there must b at least one citation per paragraph.
When writing, I add a citation whenever changing sources; this may be every third or fourth para, or three times within a sentence. My reasoning is, the info can thus be checked against the source. Of course, with a citation required every para, there will be a lot of duplicate cites in my work.
In the present case, three of the six external links are in Chinese and the other three are to movie review sites. I see no way to use cites to check accuracy without being bilingual (which I am not).
More troubling to me is a slight violation of NPOV. I believe the author is trying to remain neutral, but there is a subtle lean towards the Chinese side.
To put it bluntly, I think it would take a bilingual editor to evaluate this article. Any other ratings assigned by anyone else, whether Start Class or Featured Article or anything between, is a grope in the dark.
Georgejdorner ( talk) 18:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
It appears that the Vanguard Industries, Inc. article has been deleted, but the talk page has not — Talk:Vanguard Industries, Inc.. Should the talk page be deleted if the article has, or what should be done with it? Currently it is just sitting there in the list of articles needing attention to task force link. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 03:05, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Can project members please take a look at this article? I don't believe it falls into our project's scope, but would like to get some concensus on the issue before removing the tag. Please go to Talk:Senior Foreign Service and add your two cents worth. I will be happy to do whatever concensus determines. Cheers. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 03:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This projects banner is currently on Farleigh Hungerford however I've now moved most of the info re the castle into a new & expanded article at Farleigh Hungerford Castle. Should the banner just be moved across or deleted & the new article put up for assessment?— Rod talk 13:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The Battle of Broodseinde article is very close to a B class article in my opinion. It still needs some citations, though. I have gone through and fixed most of the MOS issues (might have missed some) and done a brief copyedit, but don't have any sources. If anyone is interested, it might be an easy kill to have it promoted to B class. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 04:11, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
An editor is making unhelpful edits to Combat Logistics Battalion 4. These may be jokes (use of the term Pog for logistics soldiers, complete over use of acronyms, etc), however, they are not encyclopedic in my opinion, and as such I have given the editor a warning about making "joke" edits. This article needs a lot of work (only a stub) at the moment but is on a topic I don't know anything about (US Marine logistic unit). I only came across it during a patrol of new articles for tagging with the mil hist tag. If anyone is interested in improving the article, I would appreciate it. Also, it needs more eyes on to prevent further unconstructive edits. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 04:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello, can an administrator please take a look at NPC Nationals Championship? It is essentially a recreation of an article that has been deleted twice (once by AfD and once by speedy deletion). The previous article's name was Lou La Luz (an article that has some military content as the subject is a serving soldier, but the creator has now recreated it under a different name). While I believe that the subject is a decent individual worthy of respect, he has been found non notable by concensus in an AfD and constant recreation of the article flouts the rules of the community. A speedy delete tag has been placed on the article again. Thank you. 115.129.4.97 ( talk) 22:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Could someone add Napoleonic fiction to the talk page template. See comment on Template talk:WPMILHIST. SADADS ( talk) 01:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
User:Monkap and I have completed the translation (from HU:WP) of the Battle of Szőreg, and have started work on translating the Battles of Komárom, which we shall probably complete within the next couple of days. They are battles in the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 (though they were in 1849). I bring it to your attention in case you wish to add them to your project. I'm not sure if simply adding your template to its talk page would suffice, and I don't want to have to familiarise myself with any complicated nomination process, so I simply note it here.
A word of warning: we are primarily translators and not military historians. Of course we hope to achieve accuracy, but our aim is mainly to provide as much as HU:WP does, as a starting point for others to fill in or – heaven forfell! – correct them, taking them onwards. Our approach is to start at the individual battles (of which we have also done Battle of Mór and some edits to others in that campaign) and slowly coalesce into the larger overview articles. We hope we've got the right military terms e.g. for munitions, cannon, pincer movement, and so on, but we can't always be entirely sure, since we are not consulting original sources but mere translating from HU:WP. At that point our expertise ends and we hope others can be handed the baton.
Fortunately (for us as translators, at least), the "Battle of..." articles stick quite well to the purely military aspects and do not cloud it much with the politics etc.
I'm working on putting together a better map (in SVG format) of the Kingdom of Hungary, from which derivative maps can be easily created e.g. battle maps, but that will take a little while. Si Trew ( talk) 21:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Battle of Komárom now done. Only Battle of Schwechat to go, then at least we have basic coverage (as good as HU:WP) of the individual battles. Si Trew ( talk) 16:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
FYI, all the battles in this campaign can be found easily from {{
Campaignbox Hungarian Revolution of 1848}}
.
Si Trew (
talk)
08:07, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks in advance Si Trew ( talk) 18:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
A-Classification trumps GA-classification on the Mil Hist scale? I ask because I was fixing the categorization of Elmer Gedeon (I noticed it as WP:MLB's only A-class article, we don't really use that class) which is a GA but also more recently got a Mil. Hist A-class review. Staxringold talk contribs 17:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Could someone else chime in on the assessment of Smedley Butler? I'm having problems understanding the organization of the bibliography, and giving the editor a hard time about how it's organized. The editor is using templates, but the entries are not consistent (punctuation). But I don't want to give Kumioko a hard time if this isn't actionable. I'm pretty sure it can't go to FA like this, though. Someone who knows more about these things H E L P !!! Auntieruth55 ( talk) 00:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Mr. B and I were wondering about the image requirements. What is the number/quality/kind of appropriate images? I've recently edited Karl Eugen, Prince von Lothringen-Lambesc, and although it has an info box, it only has one image. I cannot find a picture of the man. Is an image required? I'm not taking this through fA, just want to get it to b class and call it quits. What is policy on this? Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been going through all the Medal of Honor recipient articles and cleaning up the assessments and I have found several with assessed I don't think they qualify for. A couple of questions just to clear things up for me rather than bombard the assessment page.
Is it permissible to ask that if you're assessing an article for this project, and if you see that it overlaps with WikiProject Germany, would you please give it the same assessment there? We have a 200+ article backlog, and very few people doing assessments. No way the three of us still doing assessments there will every catch up. Thanks. Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:32, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Over the past month or so I have been going through all the Medal of Honor related articles varifying their assessment status, makingn notes and creating a page to track it. This is not a formal project, just smoething that I created to give myself a starting point to start building up the content of the Medal of Honor related articles. I though I would post this out here as well in case others are interested as well. If you look at this page Medal of Honor assessments other than Amerian Civil War (ACW) you will find tables oif all of the Medal of Honor recipients other than those for the ACW with their assessment and some rough notes. This page reflects the same for the ACW Medal of Honor recipients and this page reflects those that still need to be created. The ones who are lined out are already done, although some are still stubs and need work. Just a few notes about the state of the articles in general:
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. -- Kumioko ( talk) 21:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason why we need subcategories of unassessed articles? Hawkeye7 ( talk) 12:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
This is not a big deal, but I just wanted to let everyone know that there is a small backup of articles that have been requested for assessment that have not been assessed. I have assessed a few. Thanks and Have A Great Day! Lord Oliver The Olive Branch 19:39, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I have posted some questions and comments related to portals at Wikipedia talk:Portal#Question relating to portals. I am interested at getting other comments/opinions related to the use and maintenance of portals. -- Kumioko ( talk) 16:39, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm struggling with how articles can be assessed as unassessed. There doesn't seem to be an unassessed class, with a type definition, yet it regularly is used in the listings. I thought it might be a bot thing, registering when someone had set out from the assessment page to look at the page but failed to leave an assessment. I now notice articles previously assessed being reassessed as unassessed. Could a more experienced person explain the rationale here? Thanks Monstrelet ( talk) 18:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I've noticed over a period of a couple of weeks that this article is see-sawing between start and stub. Nothing is being discussed on the talk page. It may be that some sort of assessment warring is taking place that may need co-ordinator attention. Monstrelet ( talk) 06:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Noticed a crop of WWII german articles had been raised from start to B yesterday without going through assessment request. Checked a couple SdKfz 234 and Schutzen. Both assessed by Dodo19. Didn't think either made B, though were good starts. Don't really have the knowledge to really know how good they all are. Could someone else take a look? Monstrelet ( talk) 18:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
After reviewing Buggie's German submarine U-1023, I am left wondering if some of these ships should have an article by class, and within that article, the individual ships covered. Perhaps for some of the class of ships, or type, or whatever, it is not worth having individual articles on each ship, but instead to have a larger, more comprehensive article that pulls together the information on all (or most) of the ships, and for the ships that have enough material to warrant their own article, they can be broken out. Just a thought. I've seen a lot of irrelevant articles (not just on ships) that seem to me to be better covered within a larger article about the kind of ship. Aunt Ruth (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Are there standards for articles about military historians? Basics of what should be included, etc.? Please point me toward them. auntieruth (talk) 15:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi all I thought as a project we had not adopted the C class rating ? If so there appears to be a number of C class rated articles here. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 13:58, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Just an FYI in case this was missed, but it appears that several maintenance squadron articles have been deleted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The last one was I thing 1.5 years ago, and since then the C-class concept has evolved throughout wikipedia. I think it would be appropriate to see if people here are thinking it would be ok to implement it now. Nergaal ( talk) 17:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
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There are several articles that are really and truly badly done (poorly presented, badly written, heavily biased in one way or anohter, etc). There really should be "poor" score (ie, below "stub-class"). 65.102.19.175 ( talk) 05:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)A REDDSON
I've come across several articles that seem to qualify all B-class criteria, but the lead section is only a sentence or two. The rest of the article is very good, well referenced and includes supporting material as well. There's just this problem of the lead being too short. And as criteria B3 says ...defined structure, including a lead section..., I'm not sure what to do here. What should I do with them, pass or not? Chamal talk 15:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
If a lead section is a brief overview of the article, then does it also have to have a citation? Or can it "ride" off the citations in the body of the article?
Georgejdorner ( talk) 18:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
After Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Polish culture during World War II and Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Kostiuchnówka, I have to say I am disappointed by the A-class mechanism (at least as compared to FA review mechanism). There primary reason for my disappointment is that the reviewers often post their criticism, and never check back to see if they are replies; even when notified that their comments have been addressed they may still not check back. There is also no indication that the closing MILHIST reviewer notified them that they have comments awaiting, or that he took note that their comments were addressed. On FAs, if the reviewers don't check back, the FA director or his assistants will at the very least review how the comments were addressed and if they were addressed sufficiently, they will treat the oppose vote as not valid. At MILHIST, this doesn't seem to happen. I have to say that those last two A-class processes have significantly damaged my faith in the high quality of MILHIST processes :( -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm currently in the process of trying to get the Lee-Enfield article promoted to "A" class and am constantly banging my head against a brick wall in regards to extremely petty and trivial (IMHO) Manual of Style issues. To my mind, things like "the wrong kind of hyphen/dash" being used in the article are the difference between a GA and an FA, and even then I personally think it's completely irrelevant- for example, the "-" and the "–" both look identical to me and, I suspect, 98.5% of Wiki readers. Getting bogged down in this sort of minutiae is keeping a lot of otherwise A-class articles from being anything more than B-class articles, I think. So, I'd like to propose that we remove the "Style Guidelines" requirement of A-Class articles (or at least use a "Near Enough" test), and instead keep the silliness regarding dash sizes, having the blatantly obvious referenced, and so on for FA-class articles. Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
No extra review layer please. I know I must be one of the annoying guys out there, but our leaders, ie Kirill and Roger, like to take pride or emphasise that A-class is much closer than FA than GA, and at the end of 2007, WRT MOS issues and especially, as a regular at ACR and GAC, the A-class reviews were lurching towards GA and in some MOS cases were worse than GAs, with some articles getting through with simply bare URL links whacked in the middle of the text and inconsistent and unformatted refs everywhere. The only way to soften A-class reviews is to drop ourselves below GA standard. GA isn't as hopeless as everyone thinks. Some old A-class articles are worse than a lot of GAs. YellowMonkey ( click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 00:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I think Milhist is uncommonly fortunate in that it's an active, well-organised project with a knowledgeable membership, and can maintain a high-quality A-Class review system. Many other articles come under projects with a much smaller, less active membership, and must rely on external assessments for validation. However, I don't think I could support abandoning the GA WikiProject to replace GAN with our own GA-Class assessment. For one thing, although articles assessed this way can be awarded our WikiProject GA-Class, they still wouldn't have GA status (ie, they wouldn't appear on WP:GA), as this can only be awarded through GAN. Secondly, I believe it does an article (and perhaps editors too!) good to step outside their parent project once in a while. We even have our own Peer Review process, so other than FAC, GAN is the only place an article might get a completely uninvolved outside assessment on its way up the ladder. Not every article will reach (or is suitable for) FA, which makes an external review at GAN a worthwhile and achievable end-point for some. Having said that, there are some very thought-provoking suggestions above for closing the B/A gap. As far as I've understood them, I've tried clarifying and summarising them below (as much for my own benefit as anything else; please make corrections/additions etc as necessary!) and added a couple of my own permutations:
There are obviously many other possibilities. Note that these aren't intended to be proposals, just an attempt to set out some of the options. I do wonder if it might be worthwhile to decouple GA status from the assessment scheme by removing GA-Class altogether (per suggestions 2 and 3), whether we fill in the gap with anything or not. We could then have A-Class and B-Class (and possibly even C-Class) Good Articles, and rather than trying to fit GA status into a hierarchy it's not really intended for, it can be used as a measure of an article's compliance with Wikipedia's policies on copyright, verifiability etc. Content can be evaluated where the content experts are - within MilHist. EyeSerene talk 13:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I can appreciate the frustration that project-specific assessment scales cause to the folks at V1.0, but I don't subscribe to the view that a universally-applicable set of project assessment criteria is achievable or even desirable. However, Le Deluge and Cdr Zulu have made some very good points in emphasising that we seem to have gone too far, in that we've created a system with nothing in-between the two pivotal points - GA and FA - that a writer can aim for. We're essentially forcing writers to either stop at GA or go the whole hog to FA, and in the cost/benefit terms that Le Deluge examines it, perhaps that's not so beneficial to the project. Looking at our criteria though, they're really not that different from the V1.0 criteria. Perhaps we should be looking instead at the way they're being applied? EyeSerene talk 13:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
<==We keep mentioning here that the difference between A- and FA-Class is one of MoS tweaks, but I'd like to re-emphasize that one very great difference between a pretty darn good article and a Featured one is that the writing style of the latter has been raked, combed, polished and waxed until the article speaks with one voice. Too many A- and below articles have abrupt changes in writing style between paragraphs and even between sentences... It's just one of the normal results of multi-editor wiki-style article accretion. My 2¢. Binksternet ( talk) 02:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay - I was off, umm, editing articles.... And apologies for the ramble last time - longer than I planned, sounds like Ed had the same problem. :-)
Ed, I understand what you're saying I do genuinely appreciate the offer of help with regard to formatting/MoS issues in articles. But I still respectfully disagree with your zealousness regarding page references etc.
Using the Lee-Enfield article as an example, I have used five major sources for the article: Ian Skennerton's The Lee-Enfield(which is acknowledged by every military firearm collector as being the definitive text on the subject) along with their Small Arms Identification Series companions (by the same author and held in the same regard as The Lee-Enfield), a facsimile edition of the 1943 Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B Smith (another respected author on the subject of military firearms, and written in the middle of WWII), various articles from Australian Shooter and Australian Shooter's Journal magazine (which covers a lot of the "anecdotal" stuff not found in Academic or Technical works), and a reprint of the 1929 War Office Textbook of Small Arms. They are listed in the "References" section of the article, should anyone wish to read them to gain a fuller understanding of the subject.
The Lee-Enfield Article is a very, very long, very, very involved article. I have provided an insane number of in-line references for most of the stuff in the article, which is frustrating because it's incredibly time consuming and results in me having to pore through reference texts that I already know the contents of (The Lee-Enfield is 608 pages long, FTR) to find page numbers to back up statements that I know are correct because I've read them in the book somewhere, or in (multiple) other reference texts (which I may or may not have a copy of handy), or from Knowledgeable And Respected Posters on Prominent Forums on the Internet, or have discovered myself through first-hand experience (which is disqualified under WP:NOR, but that's another rant entirely).
There is a point in an article, I feel, where an editor has provided more than enough in-line citations, print references, external links, and other supporting information that a certain percentage of stuff in the article that is technically "unreferenced" (in that it is not supported by an in-line cite) can and should be allowed to pass under both the
WP General Reference guidelines and as a form of "professional courtesy" (I'm not sure if that's exactly the term); i.e. we are all (or should be) Gentlemen/Lady Scholars, many of whom have been on Wiki for a number of years, and having established our credentials as Upstanding Members of the MILHIST Community, I think that some leeway (or "benefit of doubt", if you like) should be given with regards to uncited statements that are consistent with the rest of the information in the article, aren't too outlandish, and are NPOV.
For example, Ed, if I was looking over one of your ship articles and saw a statement added by yourself to the effect that the USS Whatchamacallit had twin propellors made of titanium instead of steel, but no cite, I would think "Well, Ed knows his stuff and he's a reliable chap, and if he says that's the case then he probably just can't find a reference for it at the moment but knows it's correct, so I'll take his word for it." Obviously this sort of thing needs to be employed carefully, but I trust you can all see what I'm getting at. (And I'm not singling Ed out personally, he just had the reply before mine :p) Look, ultimately, I don't think people actually go and look up the page references from stuff they see on Wikipedia, and the in-line cite requirement is basically to keep everyone honest. Which is fine, but ultimately it gets to a level where an article's editor has made their point (ie, I'm not making this up, and if you're that interested you can look up the specifics here), and adding more and more and more in-line cites from the same reference(s) just ends up being redundant, time-consuming, frustrating, and most importantly, unrewarding.
Commander Zulu (
talk)
01:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm going out on a limb here since I have only been keeping a loose eye on this ACR related discussion, but given that A-class is itself under siege by WP:1.0 it may be in our projects best interest to adopt a "wait and see" approach to the 1.0 discussion and see what happens there before dashing out to reset our A-class review in any major way. In this manner we can tie this discussion and a potential discussion about encyclopedia-wide ACR changes into each other and kill two birds with one stone. Also, one uncited sentence won't cause an article to fail an ACR, our MoS explicitly states that some articles use a per paragraph citation system, and its that basis that people tend to object on: a lack of citations for a paragraph can and frequently does result in an oppose. TomStar81 ( Talk) 04:42, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I commented that I felt that I would normally give this article a B but in this case deferred to the opinion of Kresock who felt that it did not make the grade. This after giving a B rating to six other similar articles. So I felt obliged to explain myself.
Kresock felt that it is still 'start' because:
The article therefore fails questions #1 and maybe #5. Being an orphan doesn't help much either.
My reasoning on this was as follows:
However my approach was based on my experience as a 20th Century military historian. I had no intention of second-guessing someone who is an expert on the 19th Century, who knows more on the subject, like the availability of photographs. (I also wasn't second guessing whether Confederate "generals" are notable per se.) Hawkeye7 ( talk) 02:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
What would be thought of making the assessment requests a separate subpage, and then transcluding it back into this page? It would keep the moderate amount of assessment traffic from cluttering the edit history of the rest of the article, as well as provide for faster page load times for those of us who use the assessment requests section regularly. — Bellhalla ( talk) 12:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi all, the article Operation Deny Flight has been listed at FAC now for almost 4 weeks, and has drawn virtually no reviewers. So, I'd like to ask you to kindly take a look at the article and then participate in its FAC so that the article can finally pass, or we can resolve whatever issues need attention. Thanks so much! Cool3 ( talk) 23:09, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
I am finding the whole assessment process very obscure, and I have to say it is about to stop me contributing articles, as I find it very frustrating.
I posted a request for B class assessment of Alexander Cavalié Mercer here on 7 April. It got one response on 9 April, criticising the citations, but before I had even seen the response both the request and the response were deleted by Revision as of 00:59, 10 April 2009 (edit) (undo)Abraham, B.S. (talk | contribs). I only found the response by going back through the revision history of this page.
Why were my request and the response deleted? Have they been put somewhere else? In which case I can't find them, so I don't suppose any other contributor can. Is it normal for responses to be deleted within 24 hours, and for requests to be deleted in three days?
I had hoped for more input than one comment, which actually gives no help in improving the article. The B-class review of citation seems to rely on quantity rather than quality, with 34 inline cites for a 21-paragraph article being judged inadequate. I had understood that where a long passage is all derived form one source, one cites the source at the end; but it seems that even to progress beyond start-class it is necessary to go through the entire article putting in page references to the same book for each statement - though that isn't what the help pages say.
If adding citations is going to take longer than writing the article (and the citations are longer than the article) I have better things to do with my time.
A request for peer review produced two comments, which I have dealt with, but no comments on citation. Cyclopaedic ( talk) 08:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Largely I think this is due to the fact that sometimes when assessing articles quickly some assessors (myself sometimes also guilty) do not leave comments on the talk pages on articles as to why they haven't made B class or what can be improved. Also to an extent, I think some contributors do not understand that there is no C class in Military History and therefore some very good articles remain at a Start class. For some people this is like a slap in the face with a dead fish. I don't want to start the whole C-class debate again as it has only just finished after the last election, but I feel that perhaps maybe sometime in the future the idea needs to be revisited.
I was the one who originally assessed the Alexander Mercer article as a start class article. To be honest, I feel it is a reasonably good article, and it would be a C class if it existed. However, as I noted afterwards on the MHA page it wanted for citations in a few paragraphs. That is all. I was not querying the work that had been put into it, or the quality of the citations. I would go through and add the citations myself if I had the book. However, I think what this illustrates is that the ratings system is somewhat arbitary in nature. However, I don't think we could produce a system that is any better at the moment. That is just my opinion. Perhaps the way to overcome this is if, as reviewers, we all make a conscious effort to leave detailed comments on the talk page of the articles we review. AustralianRupert ( talk) 06:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This is to let people know that there is only a day or so left on a poll. The poll is an attempt to end years of argument about autoformatting which has also led to a dispute about date linking. Your votes are welcome at: Wikipedia:Date formatting and linking poll. Regards Lightmouse ( talk) 11:44, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I was looking at the Category:Unassessed military history articles and the following three articles were listed:
These are all Alternate History novels. Do they really fall into the scope of Military History? -- dashiellx ( talk) 11:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, now I'm seeing video games on the list? My fear here is that the scope of Mil History is being expanded to the point where it will be unmanageable.-- dashiellx ( talk) 11:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Alternative history is by definition non-historical, as in, it did not happen, people. History happened. Alternative history didn't.
Georgejdorner ( talk) 03:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
What happened? I thought I'd been keeping on top of these and suddenly I log on and there are over three hundred! Does anyone know what happened? AustralianRupert ( talk) 09:06, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Surely there should be an option to class an article as a List? I wanted to assess List of military writers as a list, as it clearly states in the titles of the article that that is just what it is; a list. Would it be possible to create this parameter? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I read through Operation Crossroads and think it's excellent, and should be a GA candidate. Anyone? Tempshill ( talk) 04:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
So, a good article, yes; rated so, no. TARTARUS talk 20:30, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I've just assessed former FA Defense of Sihang Warehouse, which I felt has too many citation gaps (as well as some POV and image issues) to be B-Class. I therefore rated it as Start; am I being too strict? EyeSerene talk 13:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Boy, this article beings up a lot of questions.
I have had some questions myself about the spacing of citations. One editor has told me there must b at least one citation per paragraph.
When writing, I add a citation whenever changing sources; this may be every third or fourth para, or three times within a sentence. My reasoning is, the info can thus be checked against the source. Of course, with a citation required every para, there will be a lot of duplicate cites in my work.
In the present case, three of the six external links are in Chinese and the other three are to movie review sites. I see no way to use cites to check accuracy without being bilingual (which I am not).
More troubling to me is a slight violation of NPOV. I believe the author is trying to remain neutral, but there is a subtle lean towards the Chinese side.
To put it bluntly, I think it would take a bilingual editor to evaluate this article. Any other ratings assigned by anyone else, whether Start Class or Featured Article or anything between, is a grope in the dark.
Georgejdorner ( talk) 18:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
It appears that the Vanguard Industries, Inc. article has been deleted, but the talk page has not — Talk:Vanguard Industries, Inc.. Should the talk page be deleted if the article has, or what should be done with it? Currently it is just sitting there in the list of articles needing attention to task force link. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 03:05, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Can project members please take a look at this article? I don't believe it falls into our project's scope, but would like to get some concensus on the issue before removing the tag. Please go to Talk:Senior Foreign Service and add your two cents worth. I will be happy to do whatever concensus determines. Cheers. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 03:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This projects banner is currently on Farleigh Hungerford however I've now moved most of the info re the castle into a new & expanded article at Farleigh Hungerford Castle. Should the banner just be moved across or deleted & the new article put up for assessment?— Rod talk 13:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The Battle of Broodseinde article is very close to a B class article in my opinion. It still needs some citations, though. I have gone through and fixed most of the MOS issues (might have missed some) and done a brief copyedit, but don't have any sources. If anyone is interested, it might be an easy kill to have it promoted to B class. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 04:11, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
An editor is making unhelpful edits to Combat Logistics Battalion 4. These may be jokes (use of the term Pog for logistics soldiers, complete over use of acronyms, etc), however, they are not encyclopedic in my opinion, and as such I have given the editor a warning about making "joke" edits. This article needs a lot of work (only a stub) at the moment but is on a topic I don't know anything about (US Marine logistic unit). I only came across it during a patrol of new articles for tagging with the mil hist tag. If anyone is interested in improving the article, I would appreciate it. Also, it needs more eyes on to prevent further unconstructive edits. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 04:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello, can an administrator please take a look at NPC Nationals Championship? It is essentially a recreation of an article that has been deleted twice (once by AfD and once by speedy deletion). The previous article's name was Lou La Luz (an article that has some military content as the subject is a serving soldier, but the creator has now recreated it under a different name). While I believe that the subject is a decent individual worthy of respect, he has been found non notable by concensus in an AfD and constant recreation of the article flouts the rules of the community. A speedy delete tag has been placed on the article again. Thank you. 115.129.4.97 ( talk) 22:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Could someone add Napoleonic fiction to the talk page template. See comment on Template talk:WPMILHIST. SADADS ( talk) 01:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
User:Monkap and I have completed the translation (from HU:WP) of the Battle of Szőreg, and have started work on translating the Battles of Komárom, which we shall probably complete within the next couple of days. They are battles in the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 (though they were in 1849). I bring it to your attention in case you wish to add them to your project. I'm not sure if simply adding your template to its talk page would suffice, and I don't want to have to familiarise myself with any complicated nomination process, so I simply note it here.
A word of warning: we are primarily translators and not military historians. Of course we hope to achieve accuracy, but our aim is mainly to provide as much as HU:WP does, as a starting point for others to fill in or – heaven forfell! – correct them, taking them onwards. Our approach is to start at the individual battles (of which we have also done Battle of Mór and some edits to others in that campaign) and slowly coalesce into the larger overview articles. We hope we've got the right military terms e.g. for munitions, cannon, pincer movement, and so on, but we can't always be entirely sure, since we are not consulting original sources but mere translating from HU:WP. At that point our expertise ends and we hope others can be handed the baton.
Fortunately (for us as translators, at least), the "Battle of..." articles stick quite well to the purely military aspects and do not cloud it much with the politics etc.
I'm working on putting together a better map (in SVG format) of the Kingdom of Hungary, from which derivative maps can be easily created e.g. battle maps, but that will take a little while. Si Trew ( talk) 21:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Battle of Komárom now done. Only Battle of Schwechat to go, then at least we have basic coverage (as good as HU:WP) of the individual battles. Si Trew ( talk) 16:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
FYI, all the battles in this campaign can be found easily from {{
Campaignbox Hungarian Revolution of 1848}}
.
Si Trew (
talk)
08:07, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks in advance Si Trew ( talk) 18:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
A-Classification trumps GA-classification on the Mil Hist scale? I ask because I was fixing the categorization of Elmer Gedeon (I noticed it as WP:MLB's only A-class article, we don't really use that class) which is a GA but also more recently got a Mil. Hist A-class review. Staxringold talk contribs 17:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Could someone else chime in on the assessment of Smedley Butler? I'm having problems understanding the organization of the bibliography, and giving the editor a hard time about how it's organized. The editor is using templates, but the entries are not consistent (punctuation). But I don't want to give Kumioko a hard time if this isn't actionable. I'm pretty sure it can't go to FA like this, though. Someone who knows more about these things H E L P !!! Auntieruth55 ( talk) 00:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Mr. B and I were wondering about the image requirements. What is the number/quality/kind of appropriate images? I've recently edited Karl Eugen, Prince von Lothringen-Lambesc, and although it has an info box, it only has one image. I cannot find a picture of the man. Is an image required? I'm not taking this through fA, just want to get it to b class and call it quits. What is policy on this? Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been going through all the Medal of Honor recipient articles and cleaning up the assessments and I have found several with assessed I don't think they qualify for. A couple of questions just to clear things up for me rather than bombard the assessment page.
Is it permissible to ask that if you're assessing an article for this project, and if you see that it overlaps with WikiProject Germany, would you please give it the same assessment there? We have a 200+ article backlog, and very few people doing assessments. No way the three of us still doing assessments there will every catch up. Thanks. Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:32, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Over the past month or so I have been going through all the Medal of Honor related articles varifying their assessment status, makingn notes and creating a page to track it. This is not a formal project, just smoething that I created to give myself a starting point to start building up the content of the Medal of Honor related articles. I though I would post this out here as well in case others are interested as well. If you look at this page Medal of Honor assessments other than Amerian Civil War (ACW) you will find tables oif all of the Medal of Honor recipients other than those for the ACW with their assessment and some rough notes. This page reflects the same for the ACW Medal of Honor recipients and this page reflects those that still need to be created. The ones who are lined out are already done, although some are still stubs and need work. Just a few notes about the state of the articles in general:
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. -- Kumioko ( talk) 21:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason why we need subcategories of unassessed articles? Hawkeye7 ( talk) 12:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
This is not a big deal, but I just wanted to let everyone know that there is a small backup of articles that have been requested for assessment that have not been assessed. I have assessed a few. Thanks and Have A Great Day! Lord Oliver The Olive Branch 19:39, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I have posted some questions and comments related to portals at Wikipedia talk:Portal#Question relating to portals. I am interested at getting other comments/opinions related to the use and maintenance of portals. -- Kumioko ( talk) 16:39, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm struggling with how articles can be assessed as unassessed. There doesn't seem to be an unassessed class, with a type definition, yet it regularly is used in the listings. I thought it might be a bot thing, registering when someone had set out from the assessment page to look at the page but failed to leave an assessment. I now notice articles previously assessed being reassessed as unassessed. Could a more experienced person explain the rationale here? Thanks Monstrelet ( talk) 18:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I've noticed over a period of a couple of weeks that this article is see-sawing between start and stub. Nothing is being discussed on the talk page. It may be that some sort of assessment warring is taking place that may need co-ordinator attention. Monstrelet ( talk) 06:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Noticed a crop of WWII german articles had been raised from start to B yesterday without going through assessment request. Checked a couple SdKfz 234 and Schutzen. Both assessed by Dodo19. Didn't think either made B, though were good starts. Don't really have the knowledge to really know how good they all are. Could someone else take a look? Monstrelet ( talk) 18:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
After reviewing Buggie's German submarine U-1023, I am left wondering if some of these ships should have an article by class, and within that article, the individual ships covered. Perhaps for some of the class of ships, or type, or whatever, it is not worth having individual articles on each ship, but instead to have a larger, more comprehensive article that pulls together the information on all (or most) of the ships, and for the ships that have enough material to warrant their own article, they can be broken out. Just a thought. I've seen a lot of irrelevant articles (not just on ships) that seem to me to be better covered within a larger article about the kind of ship. Aunt Ruth (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Are there standards for articles about military historians? Basics of what should be included, etc.? Please point me toward them. auntieruth (talk) 15:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi all I thought as a project we had not adopted the C class rating ? If so there appears to be a number of C class rated articles here. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 13:58, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Just an FYI in case this was missed, but it appears that several maintenance squadron articles have been deleted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The last one was I thing 1.5 years ago, and since then the C-class concept has evolved throughout wikipedia. I think it would be appropriate to see if people here are thinking it would be ok to implement it now. Nergaal ( talk) 17:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)