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I believe some of you ran into this today. A well-intentioned editor removed many of the empty comment lines some of us have been using to separate airline rows in the destination tables.
I've copied this from my & the other editor's talk pages:
Magioladitis, please stop removing empty comments from airport articles; they are deliberate, as they GREATLY ease editing of the destination tables. Thanks. -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 16:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
After reverting these changes, I made a change at Dayton International Airport by adding a hyphen to the comments. Would this make them "non-empty" enough to avoid a future editor or bot? Thoughts? Thanks.-- Chaswmsday ( talk) 19:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Lzdimitar has been repeatedly asked not to remove wikilinks from destination tables. However, s/he continues to do so: Astana International Airport, Minsk International Airport, Narimanovo Airport, Tashkent International Airport, Ulan-Ude Airport and Vitoria Airport. However, in this more recent edit to Barcelona-El Prat Airport, s/he correctly adds a wikilinked destination to the table. Is there hope this editor is now following project guidelines? -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 11:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Then, what are guidelines for? Separately, can you please tell me as an admin the reason why another admin blocked the user this time? Disruptive editing was argued.-- Jetstreamer Talk 00:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Just re-wikilinked destinations in Sofia Airport. I would argue that Lzdimitar is engaged in disruptive editing. While the changes to WP:AVIMOS and WP:WikiProject Airports/page content were deliberately made optional by consensus, that does not give an editor license to disruptively revert edits made per that consensus, with no explanation given for the revert, as called for in Help:Edit summary. I invite Lzdimitar to reply here. -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 17:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello. There is currently an RM at Talk:Seattle–Tacoma International Airport on whether to use hyphens or dashes in airport names. You may be interested. Thanks, David 1217 What I've done 16:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Some editors are questioning the naming policy after articles on RTAFB Don Muang, RTAFB Korat]], RTAFB Udorn and RTAFB Ubon were re-named to this style which is similar to other military airport articles (such as RAF stations) where the country is indicated in the title (unlike Eielson Air Force Base]]. Can an administrator make a decision. Previous discussion can be found at User talk:Petebutt#our renaming of Thai Air Force base articles Petebutt ( talk) 00:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
At General Mitchell International Airport there is the following map. Is this going to be an airport wide policy or should someone remove it? I personally think that this is a nice map but the latitude and longitude and just the whole code is difficult. Kairportflier ( talk) 00:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Looks kinda cool to me, though I'd create a wrapper template (even if just to be used initially as a subst) to abbreviate things a little, like:
{{Dest map | caption = Domestic destinations from General Mitchell International Airport | title = Destination Map | defpos = right | deflabsize = 100 | defmarksize = 7 | lat0 = 42.95 | lon0 = -87.90 | lab0 = Milwaukee | pos0 = left | lat1 = 33.64 | lon1 = -84.43 | lab1 = Atlanta | lat2 = 39.18 | lon2 = -76.67 | lab2 = Baltimore/Washington | pos2 = under ... }}
Note that, with a 1000pel-wide map, the res is about 5km/pel for the whole-US map. Lat/lon only need 2 decimal places (~1km precision), which helps abbreviate things further. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 04:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Current map style
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---|
I have some issues with the style guide at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Airports/page_content:
The last line on the page, in bold, is Finally, remember that you're in no way obliged to follow all, or even any, of these guidelines to contribute an article. I contend that this bit of touchy-feely WP:IAR anarchy isn't really true, at least not as a literal reading of it implies, and that having it here can't possibly help. It's guaranteed that ignoring standards for airport articles in particular will, and should, get someone blocked, since these articles are really just a textual rendering of factual database elements, designed to make the data (supposedly) easier for human consumption. It's tough enough to maintain articles in this format – without the fairly minimal standards that have been documented, it would be a lost cause. There's really not a lot of room for editorial creativity in these articles, is there? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 08:49, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objections to switching the start and end date brackets to parenthesis? Kairportflier ( talk) 18:57, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
No one? I will change it then. Kairportflier ( talk) 20:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
On references/sources for a new service, where do the citations normally go? I have seen some article that have citations after the punctuation and some before. Snoozlepet ( talk) 01:50, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Okay, since we got para/brackets on start/end dates and citations covered. If an airline operate from multiple terminals at an airport or for instance ExpressJet and SkyWest both operate for United Express and Delta Connection and there are listed twice. Is it really necessary to link every entry or just link the first entry is sufficient? Snoozlepet ( talk) 04:34, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Colgan Air has ceased flying on September 5, 2012 per Colgan Air's and United's website. However, some UAX's Colgan Air are still listed at some airports (flying to/from Washington-Dulles which the last batch of flights have "ends October 1, 2012" or a day or two before that date). Need someone to confirm that Colgan has ended all flights and no longer operating. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 04:00, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
From November 15, 2012, SkyWest will operate some flights on behalf of American Eagle but sources did not specify which routes are going to operate by SkyWest. However, on LAX page, some Eagle destinations are listed as "ends November 14, 2012" with SkyWest flights beginning the next day. Can anyone confirm this? Snoozlepet ( talk) 03:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
file:RAF St Eval.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.247.66 ( talk) 04:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
13 Kyrgystan airport articles (and no others) make reference to a "Russian IATA code", which is in Cyrillic characters. Presumably, this is a code that was issued by the Soviet-era airport-governing authority. What is it actually called, and is there an article for it? Tamchy Airport cites this apparently unofficial site (which calls it what Google translates to "internal code"), but it has at least one error (Tamchy is shown with ICAO code UAFR, not UAFL). List of airports in Kyrgyzstan also includes an IATA code column, in which these codes are listed in parens without any reference to their source. I'd like to correct these to the proper name for these country-local codes.
Shouldn't the {{ Airport codes}} and {{ Infobox airport}} templates (and probably airline equivalents) support a generic "country-local" code at least in addition to the US- and Canadian-specific params?
Additionally, what is the "GPS Code" referred to in those templates? The wikilinks are to the GPS article, which makes no mention of them, and I can't find any other reference to them. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 20:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Bump. I've confirmed that OWD does have the ICAO code KOWD in the FAA NASR/NFDC and updated the article accordingly. Anyone else have any ideas about what the GPS code in the template is supposed to be for? I have the feeling that I'll find it to not be used (or used erroneously) if I download all pages that refer to the template.
Also, anyone know what the Russian IATA mentioned above is supposed to be? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 23:21, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Virtually every Wikipedia airport article has IATA/ICAO/FAA LID codes mentioned both in the opening sentence and in the infobox (see eg. [2]). Is there a good reason for this, or actually any reason at all for this? I posit that they belong in the infobox alone, and not in the opening sentence. Jpatokal ( talk) 04:14, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Bump. So, are there objections to removing ICAO codes from airport leads? Jpatokal ( talk) 05:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Per [3], somebody's made a page move which goes against consensus and WP:COMMON. If there are any admins out there reading this, will it be possible to move the page back, since the person moving it made a mess by creating a quadruple redirect at the original Melbourne Airport title, thus disabling it from being moved back at its original title. Thanks. Sb617 ( Talk) 05:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The airline's operating license was suspended by India's government on 20 October 2012. But Kingfisher is still listing in the airlines destinations table where Kingfisher operates but says "Operations suspended definitely on 20 October 2012". However, the airline page is written in past tense as the airline as become defunct (but its website its still in operation with the booking engine, etc. still active). Snoozlepet ( talk) 19:34, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
After the RfC located at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports/Archive 11#Request for comment didn't come to a consensus on whether hyphens (-) or en dashes (–) should be used in airport titles, I filed an RM at Talk:Seattle–Tacoma International Airport#Requested move. That hasn't produced a definite result either, so I'm going to try an request for comment again.
Here is the question: should airports use hyphens (like Raleigh-Durham International Airport) or dashes (like Seattle–Tacoma International Airport)?
David 1217 What I've done 22:30, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I found several newspaper articles saying explicitly that airport X has a hyphenated name, I put them in a list below. I can't find any source saying that airport names are dashed, not even suggesting it.
Anyways, our own Manual of Style recommends hyphen for these cases: "Hyphenation also occurs in bird names such as Great Black-backed Gull, and in proper names such as Trois-Rivières and Wilkes-Barre." WP:HYPHEN.
There are some common sense exceptions, which should be examined case by case. For example, Minneapolis−Saint Paul International Airport is named after Minneapolis–Saint Paul, which we are spelling with a dash. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 16:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with putting the article title at the hyphen version in, and only in, a case where the official name of the airport can be proven conclusively and consistently to use a hyphen. Good luck with that, since the characters are not even distinguishable in many typefaces. Show an authoritative source that says "The official name of this airport has a hyphen not an en-dash in it". Anywhere. Ever. Mistaking the use of what appears to someone to be a hyphen (which is not likely to be be provably and intentionally not an en-dash, anyway) in some sampling of official airport materials does not equate (correlation does not equal causation!) to an active, official, conscious intent and policy that the name of that airport defy grammar conventions and use a hyphen where it should use an en-dash. That would be an extraordinary claim, and therefore would require extraordinarily stringent sourcing, e.g. a public "we hate en-dashes" letter from the airport's board of directors.
See also WP:TRADEMARK; Wikpiedia does not care about and will not honor the typographic weirdness demands of "official" names of anything, even those subject to trademark law. We use " Macy's", exactly like that, not with a lowercase 'm' and not with a star in place of the apostrophe, for a reason. That reason is the basis of MOS: We are here to make an encyclopedia the most people can read with a minimum of cognitive dissonance, and the editing of which causes a minimum of strife. One quick way to get rid of endless, pointless strife is for MoS (and WP:AT policy) to effectively forbid nonsensical typographic shenanigans, like using stars for apostrophes or hyphens for en-dashes. And yes, like many others, these concerns do override WP:COMMONNAME, by definition. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 02:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
This isn't a proper Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports discussion, it's a Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style discussion, where the matter was already settled. See WP:FORUMSHOP: Re-re-re-raising this somewhere else where one hopes for a more sympathetic audience isn't going to magically change consensus to be suddenly against using en-dashes appropriately, which includes conjunctive punctuation between two distinct entities sharing a relationship. Wikiprojects are simply editors agreeing they share an editing interest; they do not get to make up their own rules trumping site-wide guidelines. If you feel MoS is faulty on this point, the appropriate thing to do is take it up at WT:MOS and work for consensus that the problem you feel you've pointed out is a real one, with a commonly agreed solution. This is actually one of the worst cases of forum shopping I've ever seen on Wikipedia: When one RfC and an RM (actually several RMs, but only one's been mentioned here this time) have already declined to arrive out of nowhere at a surprising though vaguely possible new consensus to override existing consensus we already have at WP:MOSDASH, the answer is to do what MoS says (use em-dashes) and go back to constructive editing, not launch yet another RfC on the matter. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 02:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
-- Enric Naval ( talk) 16:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
No, N-HH. Airports are not typical entities of that sort. The default is here overruled; and indeed practice "out there" is variable even for the same airport name. Unlike "Guinea-Bissau", say. Airport names are usually functional artificial constructions with semantic weight, more like definite descriptions than fully autonomous proper names. Contrast "McGraw-Hill", which is in a way fossilised. No one thinks of "McGraw" and "Hill" as meaningfully linked in that name. Not any more. [6]
In consensus building it is standard practice to address the group rather than to attack an individual. However I would like to point out that some editors may have a
minority interpretation of WP:DASH.
Apteva (
talk) 23:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
The WikiProject Airports cannot make its own local consensus on this question. It is a style question and belongs at MoS. Neotarf ( talk) 00:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
The following airports are affected:
This is not a complete list. Apteva ( talk) 07:49, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
For some of these, in which the connection is between parallel city name or person names, the en dash is obviously correct: Fort Lauderdale–Hollywood International Airport, Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport, Minneapolis–Saint Paul International Airport, Perpignan–Rivesaltes Airport, Seattle–Tacoma International Airport, Wiley Post–Will Rogers Memorial Airport. For others, it's less clear; sometimes the spaced en dash (serving like an em dash) may be right as more of a strong break between a place name and an airport name. For some, like Blue Canyon – Nyack Airport, you find sources with hyphen spaced and unspaced on the same page, a clear indication that what they're trying to convey is not hyphenation; we just have to figure out what kind of dash conveys the right relationship. Dicklyon ( talk) 01:35, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Some of the airport names listed above with spaced en dashes were moved by User:DASHBot, which looks like it had approval, back in 2009–2010, from names that had spaced hyphens. At the time, the MOS was not so clear on when spaced en dashes might be OK. Now, they are OK as standins for em dashes, but not for making compounds of parallel names. Many of the subject airport names are foreign, typically French, as in Calais – Dunkerque Airport, which comes from Aéroport de Calais - Dunkerque, sometime written with comma or just a space instead of the spaced hyphen; same with Épinal – Mirecourt Airport, which is often found just as Aéroport Épinal Mirecourt. The spaced hyphen, in English, usually stands in for a dash of some sort; in French, I don't know. In English, could it be that an em dash is what's intended in some such cases; that is, rather than a compound, it's really an airport name separated by a dash from a location? That putting "Airport" near "Dunkerque" and "Mirecourt" is just backwards, since it should be associated more with "Calais" and "Épinal"? It would be good know, on a case-by-case basis. The only airports I've moved have been cases where the unspaced en dash was correct, to connect two parallel person or place names. Some of the others are less clear, so I haven't tried to fix them. Dicklyon ( talk) 06:36, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I made a template Template:US airport data to transclude into all the US state airport lists such as List of airports in Wyoming, and put it into the W states already. I'd like to have some independent review of whether this is a good thing. The main problem it fixes in the need to separately maintain (e.g. fix the styling of) a big block of text that's repeated in (presumably) about 50 articles; the styling (case and dashes mostly) was quite in need of work. The problem with it is that it contains dates, like 2009–2013 and 2008, such that it would be required to update all 50 states at once if we want to update the data tables that it refers to. This could be fixed (by someone that knows how to templates) to take a couple or year args so that states could be updated individually. Airport-type table headings in these article also could use a style update, since they use title case where WP style is to use sentence case. Comments? Dicklyon ( talk) 23:07, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
If anyone gets a chance, we need some additional verification to indicate that the airline is terminating service to Dubai but sources are just saying shifting operations. On 2 December 2012, the AMS-CGK routing will switch its stopover from DXB to AUH as part of a codeshareswww agreement with Etihad Airways. If anyone can find a source saying Dubai is terminating then feel free to jump right in and add any references. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 15:41, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
The page has been recently moved from Atatürk International Airport, thus affecting lots of airline and airport articles, given the importance of this destination, and given that the airport is a hub for Turkish Airlines. Is it correct to move before discussing in the article's talk page or elsewhere?-- Jetstreamer Talk 20:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the JFK airport page? Only the airines and destinations table now appear on that page, the rest of the article (infobox, introduction, history, etc.) have suddenly disappeared. I don't know if an IP "accidently" removed it or is it just my computer. Snoozlepet ( talk) 16:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi there guys! Can you please take a look at this article? Why is this particular page not sticking to the standard {{ airport-dest-list}} template to show the airlines flying in and out of the airport? Has there been any change in standards that I'm not aware of? You may also want to take a look at Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam International Airport, where the same template has been vanished and was replaced by a map. Regards-- Jetstreamer Talk 12:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
If we are going to make any changes, we need to fix more of the problems. In the example above, there is a little table above the main one for the color codes. This should be the bottom line of the table. The easiest way to do this, that I can think of, is to use templates for the top and bottom of any tables. Probably best to also use a template for each line. All to often, editors need to go in and fix the formatting after an editor adds extra columns in a row entry. Vegaswikian ( talk) 20:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I recall reading Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Airports/Archive_11#Accidents.2FIncidents which stated that only crashes close to and on airport property should be listed. I do recall that some major air crashes involve families camping out at airports, etc. and having an effect on operations. I.E. a Ramada Hotel at or near JFK (I'll have to check the street address) was a big staging ground for TWA_Flight_800#Tensions_in_the_investigation which crashed off of Long Island WhisperToMe ( talk) 18:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
This User Abhishek191288, remove some materials 2 times from this article Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam International Airport insisting that they did not comply with the guidelines provided here. The edit that was reverted is here, however the guidelines does not state that the native name and the image of the airport is not allowed, nor is a destination map prohibited, other articles also contain destination map (EX: Dublin_Airport#Destinations Map), the external links which i added is the official carrier website and the other one the Civil Aviation Department from the Government website. I must point out that i previously remove the Airlines and destinations table as it was outdated and the only official reference available [12] does not specify which arlines served these destination but provide them on a seperate list. Therefore to avoid contradiction with the map which is uptodate, i remove the table and instead added a list of airlines without specifying the destinations, info about destinations was available on the map. I want to have the opinion of some of you here to know who is wrong. Kingroyos ( talk) 09:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I've started a conversation at Wikipedia_talk:MOS#Another use for hyphens? about the airport project guideline to use a hyphen in destination listings like London-Heathrow. Please comment there if you have background info or opinions about that. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I want to get a consensus whether an airport and/or service move is encyclopedic in another airport's destination listing, and let me propose that it is not.
The prime example we have is Berlin: in a lot of airport articles' destination listing there is now the cumbersome "Berlin-Current (ends date X), Berlin-Future (begins date X+1)". While this is true, I don't think it is needed, encyclopedic, or maintainable. We already had one "false alarm". The new opening date is still a year away. Things can definitely change again, maybe more than once. Are we going to go in and edit hundreds of pages every time it happens? Will we be able to handle edit wars and differing opinions over hundreds of places?
If we don't let new services that are certain but dates unclear be listed, and if we don't let continuation of flight numbers that are not stable (throughout the period of published schedules) be listed, then why should we let this Berlin ends/begins saga (or other future moves elsewhere in the world) be part of other airports' article? HkCaGu ( talk) 05:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
My suggestion is to remove the suppose service to the new Berlin Airport which sources say they are scheduled to open on October 27, 2013 but that date is not definite and also the opening of the airport has been pushed back more than once already and we may never know that they may decide to postpone the opening again. Once they have firmly decided a opening date for the new airport, then we can add BER as a destination. However, when we fist started the discussion on the Berlin airport issue, i am still asking if when the new airport opens and Tegel closes, there will only be 1 airport serving Berlin. Do we leave the destination as simply "Berlin" or does it still need to be disambiguated until Tegel closes operations? Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of people are not including firm dates eventhough it is sourced (i.e. "March 2013", "coming soon", "planned", "begins Spring 2013"). Also, airlines are launching new routes but they don't give a press release of some kind but people are relying the airline's booking engine and online schedules to list it. For those services, should we provide a viewable source? One last thing is if anyone can give a list of sources we can and can not use to cite future services, that would help a lot. Also, for airlines terminating a route or to a city, i know it needs to be sourced but airlines normally don't give press releases announcing such terminations but some carriers do. I need imput on some of these issues when everyone gets a chance. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:13, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I've just visited the Barrow Island Airport page and noticed a small mistake there which has then led me through a few other pages as well. /info/en/?search=Barrow_Island_Airport
/info/en/?search=List_of_airports_by_ICAO_code:_Y#Y_-_Australia
/info/en/?search=List_of_airports_by_IATA_code:_B
I didn't want to just go and edit the pages myself so I hope I've done the right thing by posting this here. -- Nathaniel73 ( talk) 00:55, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Nathaniel73 (
talk •
contribs) 15:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
The IATA code is also missing from the "List of airports in Western Australia" page /info/en/?search=List_of_airports_in_Western_Australia ----NathanielOffer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathaniel73 ( talk • contribs) 15:29, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
No worries mate it's easy to do when your doing repetitive tasks like that. Thanks for sorting it out. I went in and added the IATA code to the infobox as well. -- Nathaniel73 ( talk) 18:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Would like some more opinions at Talk:Buffalo Airways#Accident and incidents. It affects both articles. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather ( talk) 14:06, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I wanted to propose to change some city-airport's name on destinations list destinations shown airports page.
Current name | Proposed name | Notes |
---|---|---|
Houston-Intercontinental | Houston-George Bush | "Houston George Bush", in my opinion, it is more clear than "Houston Intercontinental" because it shows what is the airport, not the pattern. Some might with "Houston", believing that it is what the Intercontinental. |
Johannesburg | Johannesburg-OR Tambo | A lot of times OR Tambo International Airport is simply called "Johannesburg". Many people do not know that the South African city has two airports and put only "Johannesburg" IMHO is very ambiguous. |
Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion | Tel Aviv | Tel Aviv has only one airport, why it indicate with the name too? We show only the city, as we doing with other cities. ("Ben Gurion International Airport" is incorrect, because the airport name is "Ben Gurion Airport". It shown on its website) |
Bucharest-Henri Coandă | Bucharest | After the closure of Aurel Vlaicu International Airport, Henri Coandă remained the only Bucharest's airport. Why continue to show as Bucharest has got two airports? |
Jakarta-Soekarno-Hatta | Jakarta | Jakarta has got one airport: Soekarno–Hatta |
What do you think? -- Wind of freedom ( talk) 22:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the statement in point 13 in the body section Do not seperate domestic (national) and international destinations should be rephrased as Do not seperate domestic (national) and international destinations unless they operate out of seperate terminals (or if anyone can find a better word to say "seperate terminals". A lot of articles have an airline's domestic and international destinations seperated because they operate from different terminals (hence most airports have its own "international" terminal/concourse that it is exclusively for international flights. Any suggestions? Snoozlepet ( talk) 01:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
And what about point 10? Few editors are following the golden rule relying upon the verifiability policy. This is alarming. Just an example here. Please take a look at WP:PROVEIT a well.-- Jetstreamer Talk 02:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
All these proposals are from airport's official website. IMHO its should be changed:
From (Actual) |
To (Proposed) |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Linate Airport | Milan Linate Airport | http://www.milanolinate.eu/en |
Malpensa Airport | Milan Malpensa Airport | http://www.milanomalpensa1.eu/en |
Turin Caselle Airport | Turin Airport | http://aeroportoditorino.it/en/hp_en.html |
Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport | Genoa Airport | http://www.aeroportodigenova.it/ |
Florence Airport, Peretola | Florence Airport | http://www.aeroporto.firenze.it/en/ |
Fertilia Airport | Alghero Airport | http://www.aeroportodialghero.it/home_en.asp |
Cagliari Elmas Airport | Cagliari Airport | http://www.sogaer.it/index.php/en/ |
I have a doubt about these, instead:
From (Actual) |
To (Proposed) |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Leonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino Airport | Fiumicino – Leonardo da Vinci International Airport | http://www.adr.it/web/aeroporti-di-roma-en-/pax-fco-fiumicino |
Rome Ciampino Airport | Ciampino – G. B. Pastine International Airport | http://www.adr.it/web/aeroporti-di-roma-en-/pax-cia-ciampino |
What do you think about this? -- Wind of freedom ( talk) 00:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Currently many lists of airports got several rows (with colspan) to separate airports either by type, by class, or by province/state (see the grey rows in List of airports in New Zealand, List of airports in Germany, List of airports in Japan, List of airports in France, e.g.). Should these rows be converted into a column, so that the lists are fully sortable with the information provided by the colspan rows available right next to each entry even after any of the sort buttons is pressed on? Examples of this include List of metro systems and List of airports in China. Both were recently converted. 116.48.86.50 ( talk) 00:51, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
I have AfDed the article as unsourced, among other concerns. The discussion page can be found here.-- Jetstreamer Talk 22:29, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Can please someone have a look at these "moves of articles"? done by an user that has already caused enough disruption on the "Italian Wiki". The same user has been warned (several times) and blocked on the Wiki.it and now has moved over to the Wiki.en. Before the mess goes out of hands can someone intervene? Many Thanks-- Sal73x ( talk) 02:00, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Please see Special:Contributions/203.160.61.186. This IP has been tearing regionals/subsidiary destination listings out of mainline carriers for quite a few airports across the world. I've fixed the American and Australian ones but I'm not familiar with European airlines. Please help to fix them if necessary. HkCaGu ( talk) 03:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
The sole operational runway of SXF (07R/25L) is in need of renovation. Due to the delay of BER, there are plans to use the new parallel (07L/25LR)-runway as a temporary replacement. If so, I see a problem with keeping the two articles separate of each other, because technically (as here in Wikipedia, an airport is defined by its runways in the infobox) this would mean that SXF flights would be handled at BER (even though the terminal building remains closed). Also, the fact that the air traffic control for SXF is based at the BER tower makes it hard to define where one airport ends and the other one begins.
So, how are we to address that problem? Or, don't you think that there is a problem at all? -- FoxyOrange ( talk) 13:39, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
For everyone's information, the references section always comes before external links. I just had to reorder all the Tunisian airport articles due to one user's past edits. From time to time I've seen other articles with this problem. If you're unsure when working on an article, check WP:ORDER. ...William 14:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We need a final decision on whether or not we should use cite airlineroute.net or routesonline.com (since all the information from that website is identical to airlineroute.net) as reliable sources for new services/destinations before people get into edit wars and content disputes over this. Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:23, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
All material is copyright of UBM Aviation Routes. Although the best efforts have been taken in collecting and checking the material we can not and do not warrant that the information contained in this product is complete or accurate and does not assume and hereby disclaims liability to any person for any loss of damage caused by errors or omissions.
Are there any doubts?-- Jetstreamer Talk 13:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
We give no warranties of any kind concerning the Guardian Site or the Guardian Content.
We do not warrant that this Service will be uninterrupted or error-free. There may be delays, omissions, interruptions and inaccuracies in the news, information or other materials available through this Service.
To clarify the above comments. Airline Route is a blog that is part of Routesonline and shares an editorial platform with The HUB which provides analysis and added value to the latest network development news. All information run by Airline Route is from the GDS so is a credible source. The site prides itself on only posting information which is in the GDS and is quick to make any corrections should airline inventories change. Richard Maslen, Editor -Routesonline. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.193.25 ( talk) 14:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Is it really a blog or forum, i mean that it is a most definitely a blog created by a person but is it a considered a "forum"? I mean looking there, you can't really make comments there. In my opinion, sometimes it seems reliable to me but sometimes it doesn't not. For example, on there, Ethiopian Airlines announced that it will launch service to GRU or MAD, etc. However, none of those destinations are not bookable on Ethiopian Airlines nor they have not announced a press release for that service (it may take them a couple of weeks for them to officially announce it). However, airlineoute.net said in a post on 16 August 2012 ( http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/16/et-kul-w12/) said that Ethiopian is to start KUL service on 31 October 2012 during which that time the airline never released any press releases nor the flight was bookable on their website. It took them 11 days to officially announce it on 27 August 2012 ( http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/news/prarchive.aspx?id=336). Same for Turkish Airlines as well. I would use WP:WAIT in most cases if the flights aren't bookable. Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
So, did we find any conclusion? From my view I only see Jetstreamer totaly against it, some contributors indifferent and some in favour... JochenvW ( talk) 08:06, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
I have put the discussion in request at WP:ANRFC so we can bring this discussion to a closure since apparently we are not coming to an agreement. Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Lots of stubs and Airport articles needing attention at Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Maintenance-- Petebutt ( talk) 08:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone know a good source for cargo destinations? For instance, the Heathrow article was recently updated by an IP adding Atlanta as a BA World Cargo destination. I have no idea where to look to verify this information. BA World Cargo's own website wasn't much help: (i) Atlanta is available as a cargo destination, but that may well just be cargo that's shipped on passenger flights; (ii) there were PDFs with lists of long and short-haul cargo destinations, but that dated from 2011, so I don't know how accurate or up-to-date that is. Does anyone know of good third-party sources for this sort of information? Thanks, -- RFBailey ( talk) 04:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
This article is now including parking fees, car rental companies, vacation companies, nearest hotels, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and more. Is this really how an article on an airport is supposed to look? This looks like a tourist or destination guide rather than an encyclopedia article. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 19:24, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Greetings! Air traffic management is currently a disambiguation page with a large number of incoming links. However, it does not appear to be a truly ambiguous topic. Rather, it seems like a topic for an umbrella article covering the relationship between the four areas of air traffic management listed on the page. If this assessment is correct, please help convert this page into an article properly addressing these topics. If this assessment is incorrect, please help fix the incoming links so that they are directed to the correct aviation-related topics. Cheers! bd2412 T bd2412 T 17:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi everyone! I'm a little bit confused regarding the difference between Mariscal Sucre International Airport (New) and Mariscal Sucre International Airport? If, as it's stated in the hatnote, the former is under construction, how is that there are airlines operating at it. Why having two separate articles? One more thing, at least one of the airlines disclosed in the table of destinations (Aerolíneas Argentinas) does not operate in and out of Ecuador. More confusion is added considering that an official website is provided for each article, the two urls are different, but takes the reader to the same website. Can someone please shed some light into this mess?-- Jetstreamer Talk 19:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Ladies and gentlemen, we may have missing some common types of airports/airfileds. Particularly, at the Category:Airports by type First of all, the category should be in line with the "public/private/military" parameter of the Template:Infobox airport (or the other way around). Then, there is a substantial number of industrial airfileds (some of them featuring long runways) that are neither airports nor airbases. This is particularly true for Ukraine: the Sviatoshyn Airfield is certainly neither of those, and the Hostomel Airport is too, I suspect. As I found out from Ukrainian Wikipedia, several major airbases here became de-facto industrial airstrips as only the civilian aviation maintenance companies once serving the Air Force survive there. Finally, the Mojave Spaceport and some Airbus facilities are essentially industrial airfields and not public airports. Happy edits, Ukrained2012 ( talk) 04:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Hey everyone! Per a recent discussion, the military installation (formerly military structure) infobox will now be incorporating airport information in it, to remove the need for two separate templates on airfield articles. Currently, work is going on here to incorporate the parameters that have been on Template:Infobox airport, but if people could help out and make sure that it is a seamless transition, that would be great! Kevin Rutherford ( talk) 06:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I've started an RM on the appropriate title of an airport, please take look and review the arguments. Thanks in advance for your input [15].-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:06, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello. ConnorLax101 ( talk · contribs) keeps insisting KLM serves Boston with its own metal. Can anyone please make him/her understand those services are codeshared? I can see at their talk page that not long ago there has been an argument among various editors with him/her regarding this very same matter. Thanks.-- Jetstreamer Talk 19:45, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Quite a few airlines combine their Colombo (CMB) and Malé (MLE) routes together on one flight with a short CMB-MLE hop. A while ago, the short hop could not be purchased, but recently, it became bookable on major online travel agents and also Korean's. (Turkish remains unbookable.) China Eastern's websites have been historically and remain full of bugs. (I haven't had time to check Emirates or Malaysia.) Due to momentum from before (when foreign airlines had no rights to sell), my recent discovery was marred with reversions from IPs, and after one seems to have understood, another pops up. I have run out of 3RR at this point. HkCaGu ( talk) 16:49, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi guys. What do all of you consider a "cargo destination" to be? Does it need to have less than x number of stopovers, or is it just Point A to Point B with no cargo unloading? Please help airport pages with cargo. Thanks. -Connor ( ConnorLax101 | talk) 12:25, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I have updated some of these airports' articles. Please help update the others or I propose we create a category for them. Cheers
-- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 02:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't see the relevance. Plenty more airports simply don't have control towers. We're not even mentioning in articles that these airports have contract towers, so why is the shutdown suddenly relevant? Also, without towers, these airports use common traffic frequency and TRACONs. TRACONs are not at other airports. In fact, they may not even be anywhere near an airport! HkCaGu ( talk) 06:46, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Many of your points are well taken. I wasn't trying to cry wolf, so, sorry if my words were written in such a way that you interpreted them that way. I will come up with better wording. If you have any ideas of how to change my wording, please discuss. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 19:03, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Dear WP:Airport Friends,
Proposed text:
The 2013 Federal sequester will result in the closure of the airport's contract control tower and will require pilots to deploy visual flight rules or rely on TRACONs or ARTCCs.<ref>http://www.aaae.org/?e=showFile&l=TDDZKA</ref><ref>http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2013/03/22/faa-tower-closures/2009371/</ref>
Proposed wiki-text:
The [[Sequester (2013)|2013 Federal sequester]] will result in the closure of the airport's contract [[control tower]] and will require pilots to deploy [[visual flight rules]] or rely on [[Terminal_Control_Center#Approach_and_terminal_control|TRACONs]] or [[Area Control Center|ARTCCs]].<ref>http://www.aaae.org/?e=showFile&l=TDDZKA</ref><ref>http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2013/03/22/faa-tower-closures/2009371/</ref>
Cheers! -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 14:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Several airport articles contain lots of unsourced information related to such services, shouldn't they be removed, probably fake stuff in there too, to dress up local airport by patriots/enthusiasts, has happened many times before. 175.110.219.37 ( talk) 23:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Please read these articles:
We need a new article for Samoa Air. I moved existing article for Samoa Air to Samoa Air (1987–2003). Thanks. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 03:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
In mid-October 2013 opening Dubai World Central - Al Maktoum International Airport. Some airlines have already planned their flights from/to this airport. What name to use to distinguish the two airports in template "airlines-des-list"? In my opinion:
-- Wind of freedom ( talk) 13:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Rajiv Gandhi International Airport and Bengaluru International Airport, these two articles are there in the A-class review queue for more than two years. Clearly the articles do not meet A-class criteria. So, these should be failed, and A-class reviews closed. Now, who does that? The members of this project or wikiproject aviation?-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 20:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
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I am formally requesting and getting consensus to make KLM's subsidary, KLM Asia an article. This is because it has a major presence on most Asian KLM routes, such as Taipei, Manila, and Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi. Thanks. -Connor ( WorldTraveller101 | talk | contribs) 18:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/File:Airfield traffic pattern.svg. -- auburnpilot talk 18:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Laurentiu Popa ( talk · contribs) has been changing many of the Romanian airport articles by duplicating the information of airlines and destinations ( Example here). Me and Eurocopter ( talk · contribs) have reverted him/her, but I'd like to draw your attention to the matter. Thanks.-- Jetstreamer Talk 00:04, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
I noticed that it is yet to be checked as a B-class article and I'm wondering if someone can check it against the criterion? Thanks. World Traveller 101 01:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The guidelines make no mention of cargo airlines and destinations (that I see), though many airport articles list them. This has become an issue over the last month or two at Logan Airport, with differing views of what constitutes a reliable source and what (if any) information about cargo airlines should be included.
My feeling is that including a list of cargo destination is not generally useful and should be advised against for a few reasons:
Listing cargo carriers has some (although limited) value. However, I think the guideline should suggest that only cargo carriers that regularly fly dedicated cargo planes to an airport should be included; airlines that only sell cargo space on passenger planes should not be included.
Of course, the WP:AIRPORT guideline is just a guideline, and I'm not proposing that we go through and summarily delete all cargo lists; that's an editorial decision to be made at each article.
Any thoughts? —Alex ( ASHill | talk | contribs) 04:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
I would also like to point out that unlike passenger destinations, cargo flights don't really have official flight numbers and a bunch of code-shares either, so a non-stop destination could mean having a few flights a day that might add or remove cargo and another U.S Airport. (For example, an EVA Air Cargo flight might leave JFK bound for Taipei, but might have some servicing and cargo additions and removals at a West Coast airport like San Francisco and then continue on to the hub, Taipei).
I am glad we brought up a discussion, since we're actually talking for all Wikipedia airport pages with long cargo lists now. Thanks. ( WorldTraveller101 | What is up? | How do I help?) 12:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
ASHill, thank you for making these guidelines. Thank you. ( WorldTraveller101 | What is up? | How do I help?) 15:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
These have been up for a few days now with no objections expressed, so I'll put them in place in 24-48 hours unless there's further comment. —Alex ( ASHill | talk | contribs) 03:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
I am having something of an edit war over Sydney airport. Is there any point having a flight from sydney to london listed as it goes through Hong Kong?
Point 7 needs to be clarified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 18:46, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Point 7 states the same flight number and aircraft. How do you know it's the same aircraft? For example: QF from SYD, MEL, PER and ADL will all fly to DXB to arrive around the same time, then they gather all the people going to LHR on one aircraft. By definition of point 7 there will be 4 flights to LHR when there is really only one and that is from DXB. The flight from DXB to LHR has a lot of different flight numbers. QF is not the only airline that does this. QF does it to make people who don't fly often feel more secure.
Point 7 may need some revision, in it's current form it is being used as a marketing arm for certain airlines. The mere application of a flight number is confusing and detracts from the accuracy of the data. By differentiating on plane type is in no way accurate or useful.
The list is supposed to be of flights and destinations NOT a study of flight numbers. This needs to be discussed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 21:46, 24 May 2013
Thank you for your comments. So what exactly is the list of airlines and destinations meant to be? IF nobody is expected to get flight information then perhaps a deletion of the lists from each airport would be the way to go? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 22:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I think it would be more helpful if they were accurate. The way some airlines distribute flight numbers and destinations you could end up listing all the destinations that some airlines flies to. I have fallen foul to a six hour stop over on what was a "direct" flight. Perhaps a distinction could be made for flights that aren't non-stop? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 22:20, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you both for the comments. My example wasn't entirely accurate but is sort of accurate in how some airlines treat flight numbers. I don't see any reason for deleting the lists, I find them quite helpful for an overall picture. Extending the list to include flight numbers and flight times would be something that would be not be maintainable. Maintaining the current list in its current form is enough at this time. The problem I see in the future is if (for example) Qantas starts direct flights to Paris (they have had these in the past) and starts a flight number change should the list represent this? Or maybe the way jetstar does these "direct" flights to all over Asia (They have done this in the past.) The list will be less of a representation of destinations and more of a list of airlines entire route marketing.
Showing direct flights is useful for some of the smaller airports that are on something of a milk run service but as to having to maintain the list every time an airline wishes to market a new "direct" route may be a pain. The decision not to include timetable direct connections is quite clear but why is a distinction made when a flight number has been attached? Seems like a double standard. Flight numbers change more often than routes. Maintaining a watch over if flights are in fact direct or marketing fluff isn't something that wikipedia should be overly concerned with.
At the moment point 7 isn't the clearest and could be changed. I would like to change it but I am not going to change it to reflect ambiguous rules that cannot properly checked. There is no real way to check if a direct flight continues on the same plane unless someone physically checks or it is obvious as in a milk run at a small airport.
I would like to see direct flights, code shares, timetable directs, flight numbers and schedules but unless the information is accurate and easy to keep accurate I don't how include any of it. There is enough argument on some of the pages about direct flights perhaps there can be a better way to include them? 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 00:02, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
We already have practices of treating "unstable" flight numbers/aircraft types/routes as "timetable directs". Example one is any continuation flight on Southwest Airlines. We don't list anything not nonstop. Example two is Delta through Narita. Every since before the Northwest merger, DL/NW kept changing flight numbers or aircraft types every few months and still doesn't seem to stabilize. HkCaGu ( talk) 00:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Two single-purpose registered accounts insisted on adding AS to the FC list on SAN's article, despite AS article's silence on FCs. I've run out of 3RR. Help needed! HkCaGu ( talk) 18:18, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Recently 24.236.176.199 ( talk · contribs) has been adding multiple maps to airport articles. They are adding multiple maps and usually outside the infobox. In the case of Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield they removed the map from the infobox added a second showing the location in England and a third showing the location in the UK (I guess they forgot to add the other two showing the location in Europe and the location in the world). Because the map is no longer in the box the article now has no coordinates in the box or at the top. I don't really feel that they add anything to the article and we should just stick with the one map in the infobox. What do others think? CambridgeBayWeather ( talk) 07:14, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
When creating/editing airport maps, should we be using the IATA or ICAO code? Different maps have different codes, so maybe there should be a standard? Personally, I prefer an IATA code, because usually they reflect the airport/city name, but either is OK with me. What do you guys think? -- Stonecutter9 05:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
I have noticed that a couple of China's airport articles have domestic/international separated with the exception of PEK and SHA (PVG has dom/intl flights separated but they operate out of the same terminal) with the table having no extra column for terminal. Can anyone take a look and see if it needs to be fixed or not. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:56, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
The guidelines say that airport articles are not supposed to list "private charters". But what are those? Some articles list many charter flights, like Djerba–Zarzis International Airport. Cheers. AfricaTanz ( talk) 01:12, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
So recently, I've been looking at some of the ratings on the project and I've been seeing so many outdated ratings. John F. Kennedy International Airport was ranked C-class because it lacked citations. But clearly, 130 good sources met the B-class criteria, so it was a B-class. Here are a few flaws to the rating system I see:
To sum up my big point, the criterion just isn't as in-depth and defined as well as it should be. There's a lot more than the number of inline citations or how much in each and every section there is. There just needs some work done on the specifics.
Thanks, fellow aviators
Your pal,
WorldTraveller101
Breaks
Fixes 00:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi all, longtime admirer of your Wikiproject. Wanted to let you know that Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark has been nominated for deletion. If any editor has constructive history, data, events, or other material to add to the article I'd appreciate it! Thanks again. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 20:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't think we should have "American Eagle operated by American Eagle", even though that nowadays American Eagle can be operated by SkyWest, etc. Do we say United Airlines operated by United Airlines? No! American Eagle is a brand of multiple operators but is also itself a certificated operator. "American Eagle Airlines|American Eagle" should be sufficient. Any thought? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HkCaGu ( talk • contribs) 03:22, 2013 July 21 (UTC)
A year ago we were having lots of problems with IP users adding a bunch of non-existent destinations to airport articles en masse. For the most part, we were able to stop it by blocking some of the IPs and semi-protecting articles, but the problems have arose again. For example, Shahjalal International Airport had a one-year semiprotection on it, but it recently ended and now the page is being vandalized again, by the same 58.97 range of IP addresses. I don't know if this has been happening on other airport articles; HkCaGu ( talk · contribs) would probably know more than me. Could we have an admin like CambridgeBayWeather ( talk · contribs) or Vegaswikian ( talk · contribs) take care of this by blocking the user and/or protecting the page again? Thanks, Comp dude 123 00:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:AfricaTanz keeps insisting on using airlineroute.net as a source for Ethiopian Airlines to Munich and ending Brussels. As per the last discussion, there was no consensus to use that source for starting routes on Airport pages. A few airport pages may be using those sources, but not all pages are using them (and are regularly reverted by other editors in the project apart from myself). I would like to hear others thoughts on this, or hopefully start another discussion on whether to use those sources project wide before approving. Sb617 ( Talk) 23:32, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
"No consensus on the question of whether these sources are reliable for verifying airline routes. There's a range of opinions here, and a couple of the arguments (not just on one side) don't feel particularly strong in addressing the question at hand. If a reboot of this RfC is desired in the future, it may be useful to consider WP:RSN as a venue, with a notice here, to attract broader participation."
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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
I believe some of you ran into this today. A well-intentioned editor removed many of the empty comment lines some of us have been using to separate airline rows in the destination tables.
I've copied this from my & the other editor's talk pages:
Magioladitis, please stop removing empty comments from airport articles; they are deliberate, as they GREATLY ease editing of the destination tables. Thanks. -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 16:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
After reverting these changes, I made a change at Dayton International Airport by adding a hyphen to the comments. Would this make them "non-empty" enough to avoid a future editor or bot? Thoughts? Thanks.-- Chaswmsday ( talk) 19:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Lzdimitar has been repeatedly asked not to remove wikilinks from destination tables. However, s/he continues to do so: Astana International Airport, Minsk International Airport, Narimanovo Airport, Tashkent International Airport, Ulan-Ude Airport and Vitoria Airport. However, in this more recent edit to Barcelona-El Prat Airport, s/he correctly adds a wikilinked destination to the table. Is there hope this editor is now following project guidelines? -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 11:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Then, what are guidelines for? Separately, can you please tell me as an admin the reason why another admin blocked the user this time? Disruptive editing was argued.-- Jetstreamer Talk 00:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Just re-wikilinked destinations in Sofia Airport. I would argue that Lzdimitar is engaged in disruptive editing. While the changes to WP:AVIMOS and WP:WikiProject Airports/page content were deliberately made optional by consensus, that does not give an editor license to disruptively revert edits made per that consensus, with no explanation given for the revert, as called for in Help:Edit summary. I invite Lzdimitar to reply here. -- Chaswmsday ( talk) 17:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello. There is currently an RM at Talk:Seattle–Tacoma International Airport on whether to use hyphens or dashes in airport names. You may be interested. Thanks, David 1217 What I've done 16:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Some editors are questioning the naming policy after articles on RTAFB Don Muang, RTAFB Korat]], RTAFB Udorn and RTAFB Ubon were re-named to this style which is similar to other military airport articles (such as RAF stations) where the country is indicated in the title (unlike Eielson Air Force Base]]. Can an administrator make a decision. Previous discussion can be found at User talk:Petebutt#our renaming of Thai Air Force base articles Petebutt ( talk) 00:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
At General Mitchell International Airport there is the following map. Is this going to be an airport wide policy or should someone remove it? I personally think that this is a nice map but the latitude and longitude and just the whole code is difficult. Kairportflier ( talk) 00:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Looks kinda cool to me, though I'd create a wrapper template (even if just to be used initially as a subst) to abbreviate things a little, like:
{{Dest map | caption = Domestic destinations from General Mitchell International Airport | title = Destination Map | defpos = right | deflabsize = 100 | defmarksize = 7 | lat0 = 42.95 | lon0 = -87.90 | lab0 = Milwaukee | pos0 = left | lat1 = 33.64 | lon1 = -84.43 | lab1 = Atlanta | lat2 = 39.18 | lon2 = -76.67 | lab2 = Baltimore/Washington | pos2 = under ... }}
Note that, with a 1000pel-wide map, the res is about 5km/pel for the whole-US map. Lat/lon only need 2 decimal places (~1km precision), which helps abbreviate things further. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 04:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Current map style
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I have some issues with the style guide at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Airports/page_content:
The last line on the page, in bold, is Finally, remember that you're in no way obliged to follow all, or even any, of these guidelines to contribute an article. I contend that this bit of touchy-feely WP:IAR anarchy isn't really true, at least not as a literal reading of it implies, and that having it here can't possibly help. It's guaranteed that ignoring standards for airport articles in particular will, and should, get someone blocked, since these articles are really just a textual rendering of factual database elements, designed to make the data (supposedly) easier for human consumption. It's tough enough to maintain articles in this format – without the fairly minimal standards that have been documented, it would be a lost cause. There's really not a lot of room for editorial creativity in these articles, is there? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 08:49, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objections to switching the start and end date brackets to parenthesis? Kairportflier ( talk) 18:57, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
No one? I will change it then. Kairportflier ( talk) 20:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
On references/sources for a new service, where do the citations normally go? I have seen some article that have citations after the punctuation and some before. Snoozlepet ( talk) 01:50, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Okay, since we got para/brackets on start/end dates and citations covered. If an airline operate from multiple terminals at an airport or for instance ExpressJet and SkyWest both operate for United Express and Delta Connection and there are listed twice. Is it really necessary to link every entry or just link the first entry is sufficient? Snoozlepet ( talk) 04:34, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Colgan Air has ceased flying on September 5, 2012 per Colgan Air's and United's website. However, some UAX's Colgan Air are still listed at some airports (flying to/from Washington-Dulles which the last batch of flights have "ends October 1, 2012" or a day or two before that date). Need someone to confirm that Colgan has ended all flights and no longer operating. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 04:00, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
From November 15, 2012, SkyWest will operate some flights on behalf of American Eagle but sources did not specify which routes are going to operate by SkyWest. However, on LAX page, some Eagle destinations are listed as "ends November 14, 2012" with SkyWest flights beginning the next day. Can anyone confirm this? Snoozlepet ( talk) 03:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
file:RAF St Eval.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.247.66 ( talk) 04:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
13 Kyrgystan airport articles (and no others) make reference to a "Russian IATA code", which is in Cyrillic characters. Presumably, this is a code that was issued by the Soviet-era airport-governing authority. What is it actually called, and is there an article for it? Tamchy Airport cites this apparently unofficial site (which calls it what Google translates to "internal code"), but it has at least one error (Tamchy is shown with ICAO code UAFR, not UAFL). List of airports in Kyrgyzstan also includes an IATA code column, in which these codes are listed in parens without any reference to their source. I'd like to correct these to the proper name for these country-local codes.
Shouldn't the {{ Airport codes}} and {{ Infobox airport}} templates (and probably airline equivalents) support a generic "country-local" code at least in addition to the US- and Canadian-specific params?
Additionally, what is the "GPS Code" referred to in those templates? The wikilinks are to the GPS article, which makes no mention of them, and I can't find any other reference to them. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 20:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Bump. I've confirmed that OWD does have the ICAO code KOWD in the FAA NASR/NFDC and updated the article accordingly. Anyone else have any ideas about what the GPS code in the template is supposed to be for? I have the feeling that I'll find it to not be used (or used erroneously) if I download all pages that refer to the template.
Also, anyone know what the Russian IATA mentioned above is supposed to be? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 23:21, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Virtually every Wikipedia airport article has IATA/ICAO/FAA LID codes mentioned both in the opening sentence and in the infobox (see eg. [2]). Is there a good reason for this, or actually any reason at all for this? I posit that they belong in the infobox alone, and not in the opening sentence. Jpatokal ( talk) 04:14, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Bump. So, are there objections to removing ICAO codes from airport leads? Jpatokal ( talk) 05:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Per [3], somebody's made a page move which goes against consensus and WP:COMMON. If there are any admins out there reading this, will it be possible to move the page back, since the person moving it made a mess by creating a quadruple redirect at the original Melbourne Airport title, thus disabling it from being moved back at its original title. Thanks. Sb617 ( Talk) 05:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The airline's operating license was suspended by India's government on 20 October 2012. But Kingfisher is still listing in the airlines destinations table where Kingfisher operates but says "Operations suspended definitely on 20 October 2012". However, the airline page is written in past tense as the airline as become defunct (but its website its still in operation with the booking engine, etc. still active). Snoozlepet ( talk) 19:34, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
After the RfC located at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports/Archive 11#Request for comment didn't come to a consensus on whether hyphens (-) or en dashes (–) should be used in airport titles, I filed an RM at Talk:Seattle–Tacoma International Airport#Requested move. That hasn't produced a definite result either, so I'm going to try an request for comment again.
Here is the question: should airports use hyphens (like Raleigh-Durham International Airport) or dashes (like Seattle–Tacoma International Airport)?
David 1217 What I've done 22:30, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I found several newspaper articles saying explicitly that airport X has a hyphenated name, I put them in a list below. I can't find any source saying that airport names are dashed, not even suggesting it.
Anyways, our own Manual of Style recommends hyphen for these cases: "Hyphenation also occurs in bird names such as Great Black-backed Gull, and in proper names such as Trois-Rivières and Wilkes-Barre." WP:HYPHEN.
There are some common sense exceptions, which should be examined case by case. For example, Minneapolis−Saint Paul International Airport is named after Minneapolis–Saint Paul, which we are spelling with a dash. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 16:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with putting the article title at the hyphen version in, and only in, a case where the official name of the airport can be proven conclusively and consistently to use a hyphen. Good luck with that, since the characters are not even distinguishable in many typefaces. Show an authoritative source that says "The official name of this airport has a hyphen not an en-dash in it". Anywhere. Ever. Mistaking the use of what appears to someone to be a hyphen (which is not likely to be be provably and intentionally not an en-dash, anyway) in some sampling of official airport materials does not equate (correlation does not equal causation!) to an active, official, conscious intent and policy that the name of that airport defy grammar conventions and use a hyphen where it should use an en-dash. That would be an extraordinary claim, and therefore would require extraordinarily stringent sourcing, e.g. a public "we hate en-dashes" letter from the airport's board of directors.
See also WP:TRADEMARK; Wikpiedia does not care about and will not honor the typographic weirdness demands of "official" names of anything, even those subject to trademark law. We use " Macy's", exactly like that, not with a lowercase 'm' and not with a star in place of the apostrophe, for a reason. That reason is the basis of MOS: We are here to make an encyclopedia the most people can read with a minimum of cognitive dissonance, and the editing of which causes a minimum of strife. One quick way to get rid of endless, pointless strife is for MoS (and WP:AT policy) to effectively forbid nonsensical typographic shenanigans, like using stars for apostrophes or hyphens for en-dashes. And yes, like many others, these concerns do override WP:COMMONNAME, by definition. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 02:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
This isn't a proper Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports discussion, it's a Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style discussion, where the matter was already settled. See WP:FORUMSHOP: Re-re-re-raising this somewhere else where one hopes for a more sympathetic audience isn't going to magically change consensus to be suddenly against using en-dashes appropriately, which includes conjunctive punctuation between two distinct entities sharing a relationship. Wikiprojects are simply editors agreeing they share an editing interest; they do not get to make up their own rules trumping site-wide guidelines. If you feel MoS is faulty on this point, the appropriate thing to do is take it up at WT:MOS and work for consensus that the problem you feel you've pointed out is a real one, with a commonly agreed solution. This is actually one of the worst cases of forum shopping I've ever seen on Wikipedia: When one RfC and an RM (actually several RMs, but only one's been mentioned here this time) have already declined to arrive out of nowhere at a surprising though vaguely possible new consensus to override existing consensus we already have at WP:MOSDASH, the answer is to do what MoS says (use em-dashes) and go back to constructive editing, not launch yet another RfC on the matter. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 02:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
-- Enric Naval ( talk) 16:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
No, N-HH. Airports are not typical entities of that sort. The default is here overruled; and indeed practice "out there" is variable even for the same airport name. Unlike "Guinea-Bissau", say. Airport names are usually functional artificial constructions with semantic weight, more like definite descriptions than fully autonomous proper names. Contrast "McGraw-Hill", which is in a way fossilised. No one thinks of "McGraw" and "Hill" as meaningfully linked in that name. Not any more. [6]
In consensus building it is standard practice to address the group rather than to attack an individual. However I would like to point out that some editors may have a
minority interpretation of WP:DASH.
Apteva (
talk) 23:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
The WikiProject Airports cannot make its own local consensus on this question. It is a style question and belongs at MoS. Neotarf ( talk) 00:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
The following airports are affected:
This is not a complete list. Apteva ( talk) 07:49, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
For some of these, in which the connection is between parallel city name or person names, the en dash is obviously correct: Fort Lauderdale–Hollywood International Airport, Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport, Minneapolis–Saint Paul International Airport, Perpignan–Rivesaltes Airport, Seattle–Tacoma International Airport, Wiley Post–Will Rogers Memorial Airport. For others, it's less clear; sometimes the spaced en dash (serving like an em dash) may be right as more of a strong break between a place name and an airport name. For some, like Blue Canyon – Nyack Airport, you find sources with hyphen spaced and unspaced on the same page, a clear indication that what they're trying to convey is not hyphenation; we just have to figure out what kind of dash conveys the right relationship. Dicklyon ( talk) 01:35, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Some of the airport names listed above with spaced en dashes were moved by User:DASHBot, which looks like it had approval, back in 2009–2010, from names that had spaced hyphens. At the time, the MOS was not so clear on when spaced en dashes might be OK. Now, they are OK as standins for em dashes, but not for making compounds of parallel names. Many of the subject airport names are foreign, typically French, as in Calais – Dunkerque Airport, which comes from Aéroport de Calais - Dunkerque, sometime written with comma or just a space instead of the spaced hyphen; same with Épinal – Mirecourt Airport, which is often found just as Aéroport Épinal Mirecourt. The spaced hyphen, in English, usually stands in for a dash of some sort; in French, I don't know. In English, could it be that an em dash is what's intended in some such cases; that is, rather than a compound, it's really an airport name separated by a dash from a location? That putting "Airport" near "Dunkerque" and "Mirecourt" is just backwards, since it should be associated more with "Calais" and "Épinal"? It would be good know, on a case-by-case basis. The only airports I've moved have been cases where the unspaced en dash was correct, to connect two parallel person or place names. Some of the others are less clear, so I haven't tried to fix them. Dicklyon ( talk) 06:36, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I made a template Template:US airport data to transclude into all the US state airport lists such as List of airports in Wyoming, and put it into the W states already. I'd like to have some independent review of whether this is a good thing. The main problem it fixes in the need to separately maintain (e.g. fix the styling of) a big block of text that's repeated in (presumably) about 50 articles; the styling (case and dashes mostly) was quite in need of work. The problem with it is that it contains dates, like 2009–2013 and 2008, such that it would be required to update all 50 states at once if we want to update the data tables that it refers to. This could be fixed (by someone that knows how to templates) to take a couple or year args so that states could be updated individually. Airport-type table headings in these article also could use a style update, since they use title case where WP style is to use sentence case. Comments? Dicklyon ( talk) 23:07, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
If anyone gets a chance, we need some additional verification to indicate that the airline is terminating service to Dubai but sources are just saying shifting operations. On 2 December 2012, the AMS-CGK routing will switch its stopover from DXB to AUH as part of a codeshareswww agreement with Etihad Airways. If anyone can find a source saying Dubai is terminating then feel free to jump right in and add any references. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 15:41, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
The page has been recently moved from Atatürk International Airport, thus affecting lots of airline and airport articles, given the importance of this destination, and given that the airport is a hub for Turkish Airlines. Is it correct to move before discussing in the article's talk page or elsewhere?-- Jetstreamer Talk 20:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the JFK airport page? Only the airines and destinations table now appear on that page, the rest of the article (infobox, introduction, history, etc.) have suddenly disappeared. I don't know if an IP "accidently" removed it or is it just my computer. Snoozlepet ( talk) 16:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi there guys! Can you please take a look at this article? Why is this particular page not sticking to the standard {{ airport-dest-list}} template to show the airlines flying in and out of the airport? Has there been any change in standards that I'm not aware of? You may also want to take a look at Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam International Airport, where the same template has been vanished and was replaced by a map. Regards-- Jetstreamer Talk 12:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
If we are going to make any changes, we need to fix more of the problems. In the example above, there is a little table above the main one for the color codes. This should be the bottom line of the table. The easiest way to do this, that I can think of, is to use templates for the top and bottom of any tables. Probably best to also use a template for each line. All to often, editors need to go in and fix the formatting after an editor adds extra columns in a row entry. Vegaswikian ( talk) 20:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I recall reading Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Airports/Archive_11#Accidents.2FIncidents which stated that only crashes close to and on airport property should be listed. I do recall that some major air crashes involve families camping out at airports, etc. and having an effect on operations. I.E. a Ramada Hotel at or near JFK (I'll have to check the street address) was a big staging ground for TWA_Flight_800#Tensions_in_the_investigation which crashed off of Long Island WhisperToMe ( talk) 18:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
This User Abhishek191288, remove some materials 2 times from this article Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam International Airport insisting that they did not comply with the guidelines provided here. The edit that was reverted is here, however the guidelines does not state that the native name and the image of the airport is not allowed, nor is a destination map prohibited, other articles also contain destination map (EX: Dublin_Airport#Destinations Map), the external links which i added is the official carrier website and the other one the Civil Aviation Department from the Government website. I must point out that i previously remove the Airlines and destinations table as it was outdated and the only official reference available [12] does not specify which arlines served these destination but provide them on a seperate list. Therefore to avoid contradiction with the map which is uptodate, i remove the table and instead added a list of airlines without specifying the destinations, info about destinations was available on the map. I want to have the opinion of some of you here to know who is wrong. Kingroyos ( talk) 09:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I've started a conversation at Wikipedia_talk:MOS#Another use for hyphens? about the airport project guideline to use a hyphen in destination listings like London-Heathrow. Please comment there if you have background info or opinions about that. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I want to get a consensus whether an airport and/or service move is encyclopedic in another airport's destination listing, and let me propose that it is not.
The prime example we have is Berlin: in a lot of airport articles' destination listing there is now the cumbersome "Berlin-Current (ends date X), Berlin-Future (begins date X+1)". While this is true, I don't think it is needed, encyclopedic, or maintainable. We already had one "false alarm". The new opening date is still a year away. Things can definitely change again, maybe more than once. Are we going to go in and edit hundreds of pages every time it happens? Will we be able to handle edit wars and differing opinions over hundreds of places?
If we don't let new services that are certain but dates unclear be listed, and if we don't let continuation of flight numbers that are not stable (throughout the period of published schedules) be listed, then why should we let this Berlin ends/begins saga (or other future moves elsewhere in the world) be part of other airports' article? HkCaGu ( talk) 05:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
My suggestion is to remove the suppose service to the new Berlin Airport which sources say they are scheduled to open on October 27, 2013 but that date is not definite and also the opening of the airport has been pushed back more than once already and we may never know that they may decide to postpone the opening again. Once they have firmly decided a opening date for the new airport, then we can add BER as a destination. However, when we fist started the discussion on the Berlin airport issue, i am still asking if when the new airport opens and Tegel closes, there will only be 1 airport serving Berlin. Do we leave the destination as simply "Berlin" or does it still need to be disambiguated until Tegel closes operations? Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of people are not including firm dates eventhough it is sourced (i.e. "March 2013", "coming soon", "planned", "begins Spring 2013"). Also, airlines are launching new routes but they don't give a press release of some kind but people are relying the airline's booking engine and online schedules to list it. For those services, should we provide a viewable source? One last thing is if anyone can give a list of sources we can and can not use to cite future services, that would help a lot. Also, for airlines terminating a route or to a city, i know it needs to be sourced but airlines normally don't give press releases announcing such terminations but some carriers do. I need imput on some of these issues when everyone gets a chance. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:13, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I've just visited the Barrow Island Airport page and noticed a small mistake there which has then led me through a few other pages as well. /info/en/?search=Barrow_Island_Airport
/info/en/?search=List_of_airports_by_ICAO_code:_Y#Y_-_Australia
/info/en/?search=List_of_airports_by_IATA_code:_B
I didn't want to just go and edit the pages myself so I hope I've done the right thing by posting this here. -- Nathaniel73 ( talk) 00:55, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Nathaniel73 (
talk •
contribs) 15:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
The IATA code is also missing from the "List of airports in Western Australia" page /info/en/?search=List_of_airports_in_Western_Australia ----NathanielOffer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathaniel73 ( talk • contribs) 15:29, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
No worries mate it's easy to do when your doing repetitive tasks like that. Thanks for sorting it out. I went in and added the IATA code to the infobox as well. -- Nathaniel73 ( talk) 18:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Would like some more opinions at Talk:Buffalo Airways#Accident and incidents. It affects both articles. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather ( talk) 14:06, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I wanted to propose to change some city-airport's name on destinations list destinations shown airports page.
Current name | Proposed name | Notes |
---|---|---|
Houston-Intercontinental | Houston-George Bush | "Houston George Bush", in my opinion, it is more clear than "Houston Intercontinental" because it shows what is the airport, not the pattern. Some might with "Houston", believing that it is what the Intercontinental. |
Johannesburg | Johannesburg-OR Tambo | A lot of times OR Tambo International Airport is simply called "Johannesburg". Many people do not know that the South African city has two airports and put only "Johannesburg" IMHO is very ambiguous. |
Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion | Tel Aviv | Tel Aviv has only one airport, why it indicate with the name too? We show only the city, as we doing with other cities. ("Ben Gurion International Airport" is incorrect, because the airport name is "Ben Gurion Airport". It shown on its website) |
Bucharest-Henri Coandă | Bucharest | After the closure of Aurel Vlaicu International Airport, Henri Coandă remained the only Bucharest's airport. Why continue to show as Bucharest has got two airports? |
Jakarta-Soekarno-Hatta | Jakarta | Jakarta has got one airport: Soekarno–Hatta |
What do you think? -- Wind of freedom ( talk) 22:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the statement in point 13 in the body section Do not seperate domestic (national) and international destinations should be rephrased as Do not seperate domestic (national) and international destinations unless they operate out of seperate terminals (or if anyone can find a better word to say "seperate terminals". A lot of articles have an airline's domestic and international destinations seperated because they operate from different terminals (hence most airports have its own "international" terminal/concourse that it is exclusively for international flights. Any suggestions? Snoozlepet ( talk) 01:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
And what about point 10? Few editors are following the golden rule relying upon the verifiability policy. This is alarming. Just an example here. Please take a look at WP:PROVEIT a well.-- Jetstreamer Talk 02:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
All these proposals are from airport's official website. IMHO its should be changed:
From (Actual) |
To (Proposed) |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Linate Airport | Milan Linate Airport | http://www.milanolinate.eu/en |
Malpensa Airport | Milan Malpensa Airport | http://www.milanomalpensa1.eu/en |
Turin Caselle Airport | Turin Airport | http://aeroportoditorino.it/en/hp_en.html |
Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport | Genoa Airport | http://www.aeroportodigenova.it/ |
Florence Airport, Peretola | Florence Airport | http://www.aeroporto.firenze.it/en/ |
Fertilia Airport | Alghero Airport | http://www.aeroportodialghero.it/home_en.asp |
Cagliari Elmas Airport | Cagliari Airport | http://www.sogaer.it/index.php/en/ |
I have a doubt about these, instead:
From (Actual) |
To (Proposed) |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Leonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino Airport | Fiumicino – Leonardo da Vinci International Airport | http://www.adr.it/web/aeroporti-di-roma-en-/pax-fco-fiumicino |
Rome Ciampino Airport | Ciampino – G. B. Pastine International Airport | http://www.adr.it/web/aeroporti-di-roma-en-/pax-cia-ciampino |
What do you think about this? -- Wind of freedom ( talk) 00:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Currently many lists of airports got several rows (with colspan) to separate airports either by type, by class, or by province/state (see the grey rows in List of airports in New Zealand, List of airports in Germany, List of airports in Japan, List of airports in France, e.g.). Should these rows be converted into a column, so that the lists are fully sortable with the information provided by the colspan rows available right next to each entry even after any of the sort buttons is pressed on? Examples of this include List of metro systems and List of airports in China. Both were recently converted. 116.48.86.50 ( talk) 00:51, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
I have AfDed the article as unsourced, among other concerns. The discussion page can be found here.-- Jetstreamer Talk 22:29, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Can please someone have a look at these "moves of articles"? done by an user that has already caused enough disruption on the "Italian Wiki". The same user has been warned (several times) and blocked on the Wiki.it and now has moved over to the Wiki.en. Before the mess goes out of hands can someone intervene? Many Thanks-- Sal73x ( talk) 02:00, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Please see Special:Contributions/203.160.61.186. This IP has been tearing regionals/subsidiary destination listings out of mainline carriers for quite a few airports across the world. I've fixed the American and Australian ones but I'm not familiar with European airlines. Please help to fix them if necessary. HkCaGu ( talk) 03:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
The sole operational runway of SXF (07R/25L) is in need of renovation. Due to the delay of BER, there are plans to use the new parallel (07L/25LR)-runway as a temporary replacement. If so, I see a problem with keeping the two articles separate of each other, because technically (as here in Wikipedia, an airport is defined by its runways in the infobox) this would mean that SXF flights would be handled at BER (even though the terminal building remains closed). Also, the fact that the air traffic control for SXF is based at the BER tower makes it hard to define where one airport ends and the other one begins.
So, how are we to address that problem? Or, don't you think that there is a problem at all? -- FoxyOrange ( talk) 13:39, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
For everyone's information, the references section always comes before external links. I just had to reorder all the Tunisian airport articles due to one user's past edits. From time to time I've seen other articles with this problem. If you're unsure when working on an article, check WP:ORDER. ...William 14:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We need a final decision on whether or not we should use cite airlineroute.net or routesonline.com (since all the information from that website is identical to airlineroute.net) as reliable sources for new services/destinations before people get into edit wars and content disputes over this. Snoozlepet ( talk) 06:23, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
All material is copyright of UBM Aviation Routes. Although the best efforts have been taken in collecting and checking the material we can not and do not warrant that the information contained in this product is complete or accurate and does not assume and hereby disclaims liability to any person for any loss of damage caused by errors or omissions.
Are there any doubts?-- Jetstreamer Talk 13:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
We give no warranties of any kind concerning the Guardian Site or the Guardian Content.
We do not warrant that this Service will be uninterrupted or error-free. There may be delays, omissions, interruptions and inaccuracies in the news, information or other materials available through this Service.
To clarify the above comments. Airline Route is a blog that is part of Routesonline and shares an editorial platform with The HUB which provides analysis and added value to the latest network development news. All information run by Airline Route is from the GDS so is a credible source. The site prides itself on only posting information which is in the GDS and is quick to make any corrections should airline inventories change. Richard Maslen, Editor -Routesonline. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.193.25 ( talk) 14:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Is it really a blog or forum, i mean that it is a most definitely a blog created by a person but is it a considered a "forum"? I mean looking there, you can't really make comments there. In my opinion, sometimes it seems reliable to me but sometimes it doesn't not. For example, on there, Ethiopian Airlines announced that it will launch service to GRU or MAD, etc. However, none of those destinations are not bookable on Ethiopian Airlines nor they have not announced a press release for that service (it may take them a couple of weeks for them to officially announce it). However, airlineoute.net said in a post on 16 August 2012 ( http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/16/et-kul-w12/) said that Ethiopian is to start KUL service on 31 October 2012 during which that time the airline never released any press releases nor the flight was bookable on their website. It took them 11 days to officially announce it on 27 August 2012 ( http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/news/prarchive.aspx?id=336). Same for Turkish Airlines as well. I would use WP:WAIT in most cases if the flights aren't bookable. Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
So, did we find any conclusion? From my view I only see Jetstreamer totaly against it, some contributors indifferent and some in favour... JochenvW ( talk) 08:06, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
I have put the discussion in request at WP:ANRFC so we can bring this discussion to a closure since apparently we are not coming to an agreement. Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Lots of stubs and Airport articles needing attention at Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Maintenance-- Petebutt ( talk) 08:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone know a good source for cargo destinations? For instance, the Heathrow article was recently updated by an IP adding Atlanta as a BA World Cargo destination. I have no idea where to look to verify this information. BA World Cargo's own website wasn't much help: (i) Atlanta is available as a cargo destination, but that may well just be cargo that's shipped on passenger flights; (ii) there were PDFs with lists of long and short-haul cargo destinations, but that dated from 2011, so I don't know how accurate or up-to-date that is. Does anyone know of good third-party sources for this sort of information? Thanks, -- RFBailey ( talk) 04:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
This article is now including parking fees, car rental companies, vacation companies, nearest hotels, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and more. Is this really how an article on an airport is supposed to look? This looks like a tourist or destination guide rather than an encyclopedia article. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 19:24, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Greetings! Air traffic management is currently a disambiguation page with a large number of incoming links. However, it does not appear to be a truly ambiguous topic. Rather, it seems like a topic for an umbrella article covering the relationship between the four areas of air traffic management listed on the page. If this assessment is correct, please help convert this page into an article properly addressing these topics. If this assessment is incorrect, please help fix the incoming links so that they are directed to the correct aviation-related topics. Cheers! bd2412 T bd2412 T 17:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi everyone! I'm a little bit confused regarding the difference between Mariscal Sucre International Airport (New) and Mariscal Sucre International Airport? If, as it's stated in the hatnote, the former is under construction, how is that there are airlines operating at it. Why having two separate articles? One more thing, at least one of the airlines disclosed in the table of destinations (Aerolíneas Argentinas) does not operate in and out of Ecuador. More confusion is added considering that an official website is provided for each article, the two urls are different, but takes the reader to the same website. Can someone please shed some light into this mess?-- Jetstreamer Talk 19:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Ladies and gentlemen, we may have missing some common types of airports/airfileds. Particularly, at the Category:Airports by type First of all, the category should be in line with the "public/private/military" parameter of the Template:Infobox airport (or the other way around). Then, there is a substantial number of industrial airfileds (some of them featuring long runways) that are neither airports nor airbases. This is particularly true for Ukraine: the Sviatoshyn Airfield is certainly neither of those, and the Hostomel Airport is too, I suspect. As I found out from Ukrainian Wikipedia, several major airbases here became de-facto industrial airstrips as only the civilian aviation maintenance companies once serving the Air Force survive there. Finally, the Mojave Spaceport and some Airbus facilities are essentially industrial airfields and not public airports. Happy edits, Ukrained2012 ( talk) 04:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Hey everyone! Per a recent discussion, the military installation (formerly military structure) infobox will now be incorporating airport information in it, to remove the need for two separate templates on airfield articles. Currently, work is going on here to incorporate the parameters that have been on Template:Infobox airport, but if people could help out and make sure that it is a seamless transition, that would be great! Kevin Rutherford ( talk) 06:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I've started an RM on the appropriate title of an airport, please take look and review the arguments. Thanks in advance for your input [15].-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:06, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello. ConnorLax101 ( talk · contribs) keeps insisting KLM serves Boston with its own metal. Can anyone please make him/her understand those services are codeshared? I can see at their talk page that not long ago there has been an argument among various editors with him/her regarding this very same matter. Thanks.-- Jetstreamer Talk 19:45, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Quite a few airlines combine their Colombo (CMB) and Malé (MLE) routes together on one flight with a short CMB-MLE hop. A while ago, the short hop could not be purchased, but recently, it became bookable on major online travel agents and also Korean's. (Turkish remains unbookable.) China Eastern's websites have been historically and remain full of bugs. (I haven't had time to check Emirates or Malaysia.) Due to momentum from before (when foreign airlines had no rights to sell), my recent discovery was marred with reversions from IPs, and after one seems to have understood, another pops up. I have run out of 3RR at this point. HkCaGu ( talk) 16:49, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi guys. What do all of you consider a "cargo destination" to be? Does it need to have less than x number of stopovers, or is it just Point A to Point B with no cargo unloading? Please help airport pages with cargo. Thanks. -Connor ( ConnorLax101 | talk) 12:25, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I have updated some of these airports' articles. Please help update the others or I propose we create a category for them. Cheers
-- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 02:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't see the relevance. Plenty more airports simply don't have control towers. We're not even mentioning in articles that these airports have contract towers, so why is the shutdown suddenly relevant? Also, without towers, these airports use common traffic frequency and TRACONs. TRACONs are not at other airports. In fact, they may not even be anywhere near an airport! HkCaGu ( talk) 06:46, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Many of your points are well taken. I wasn't trying to cry wolf, so, sorry if my words were written in such a way that you interpreted them that way. I will come up with better wording. If you have any ideas of how to change my wording, please discuss. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 19:03, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Dear WP:Airport Friends,
Proposed text:
The 2013 Federal sequester will result in the closure of the airport's contract control tower and will require pilots to deploy visual flight rules or rely on TRACONs or ARTCCs.<ref>http://www.aaae.org/?e=showFile&l=TDDZKA</ref><ref>http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2013/03/22/faa-tower-closures/2009371/</ref>
Proposed wiki-text:
The [[Sequester (2013)|2013 Federal sequester]] will result in the closure of the airport's contract [[control tower]] and will require pilots to deploy [[visual flight rules]] or rely on [[Terminal_Control_Center#Approach_and_terminal_control|TRACONs]] or [[Area Control Center|ARTCCs]].<ref>http://www.aaae.org/?e=showFile&l=TDDZKA</ref><ref>http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2013/03/22/faa-tower-closures/2009371/</ref>
Cheers! -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 14:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Several airport articles contain lots of unsourced information related to such services, shouldn't they be removed, probably fake stuff in there too, to dress up local airport by patriots/enthusiasts, has happened many times before. 175.110.219.37 ( talk) 23:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Please read these articles:
We need a new article for Samoa Air. I moved existing article for Samoa Air to Samoa Air (1987–2003). Thanks. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 03:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
In mid-October 2013 opening Dubai World Central - Al Maktoum International Airport. Some airlines have already planned their flights from/to this airport. What name to use to distinguish the two airports in template "airlines-des-list"? In my opinion:
-- Wind of freedom ( talk) 13:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Rajiv Gandhi International Airport and Bengaluru International Airport, these two articles are there in the A-class review queue for more than two years. Clearly the articles do not meet A-class criteria. So, these should be failed, and A-class reviews closed. Now, who does that? The members of this project or wikiproject aviation?-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 20:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
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I am formally requesting and getting consensus to make KLM's subsidary, KLM Asia an article. This is because it has a major presence on most Asian KLM routes, such as Taipei, Manila, and Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi. Thanks. -Connor ( WorldTraveller101 | talk | contribs) 18:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/File:Airfield traffic pattern.svg. -- auburnpilot talk 18:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Laurentiu Popa ( talk · contribs) has been changing many of the Romanian airport articles by duplicating the information of airlines and destinations ( Example here). Me and Eurocopter ( talk · contribs) have reverted him/her, but I'd like to draw your attention to the matter. Thanks.-- Jetstreamer Talk 00:04, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
I noticed that it is yet to be checked as a B-class article and I'm wondering if someone can check it against the criterion? Thanks. World Traveller 101 01:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The guidelines make no mention of cargo airlines and destinations (that I see), though many airport articles list them. This has become an issue over the last month or two at Logan Airport, with differing views of what constitutes a reliable source and what (if any) information about cargo airlines should be included.
My feeling is that including a list of cargo destination is not generally useful and should be advised against for a few reasons:
Listing cargo carriers has some (although limited) value. However, I think the guideline should suggest that only cargo carriers that regularly fly dedicated cargo planes to an airport should be included; airlines that only sell cargo space on passenger planes should not be included.
Of course, the WP:AIRPORT guideline is just a guideline, and I'm not proposing that we go through and summarily delete all cargo lists; that's an editorial decision to be made at each article.
Any thoughts? —Alex ( ASHill | talk | contribs) 04:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
I would also like to point out that unlike passenger destinations, cargo flights don't really have official flight numbers and a bunch of code-shares either, so a non-stop destination could mean having a few flights a day that might add or remove cargo and another U.S Airport. (For example, an EVA Air Cargo flight might leave JFK bound for Taipei, but might have some servicing and cargo additions and removals at a West Coast airport like San Francisco and then continue on to the hub, Taipei).
I am glad we brought up a discussion, since we're actually talking for all Wikipedia airport pages with long cargo lists now. Thanks. ( WorldTraveller101 | What is up? | How do I help?) 12:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
ASHill, thank you for making these guidelines. Thank you. ( WorldTraveller101 | What is up? | How do I help?) 15:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
These have been up for a few days now with no objections expressed, so I'll put them in place in 24-48 hours unless there's further comment. —Alex ( ASHill | talk | contribs) 03:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
I am having something of an edit war over Sydney airport. Is there any point having a flight from sydney to london listed as it goes through Hong Kong?
Point 7 needs to be clarified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 18:46, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Point 7 states the same flight number and aircraft. How do you know it's the same aircraft? For example: QF from SYD, MEL, PER and ADL will all fly to DXB to arrive around the same time, then they gather all the people going to LHR on one aircraft. By definition of point 7 there will be 4 flights to LHR when there is really only one and that is from DXB. The flight from DXB to LHR has a lot of different flight numbers. QF is not the only airline that does this. QF does it to make people who don't fly often feel more secure.
Point 7 may need some revision, in it's current form it is being used as a marketing arm for certain airlines. The mere application of a flight number is confusing and detracts from the accuracy of the data. By differentiating on plane type is in no way accurate or useful.
The list is supposed to be of flights and destinations NOT a study of flight numbers. This needs to be discussed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 21:46, 24 May 2013
Thank you for your comments. So what exactly is the list of airlines and destinations meant to be? IF nobody is expected to get flight information then perhaps a deletion of the lists from each airport would be the way to go? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 22:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I think it would be more helpful if they were accurate. The way some airlines distribute flight numbers and destinations you could end up listing all the destinations that some airlines flies to. I have fallen foul to a six hour stop over on what was a "direct" flight. Perhaps a distinction could be made for flights that aren't non-stop? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 22:20, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you both for the comments. My example wasn't entirely accurate but is sort of accurate in how some airlines treat flight numbers. I don't see any reason for deleting the lists, I find them quite helpful for an overall picture. Extending the list to include flight numbers and flight times would be something that would be not be maintainable. Maintaining the current list in its current form is enough at this time. The problem I see in the future is if (for example) Qantas starts direct flights to Paris (they have had these in the past) and starts a flight number change should the list represent this? Or maybe the way jetstar does these "direct" flights to all over Asia (They have done this in the past.) The list will be less of a representation of destinations and more of a list of airlines entire route marketing.
Showing direct flights is useful for some of the smaller airports that are on something of a milk run service but as to having to maintain the list every time an airline wishes to market a new "direct" route may be a pain. The decision not to include timetable direct connections is quite clear but why is a distinction made when a flight number has been attached? Seems like a double standard. Flight numbers change more often than routes. Maintaining a watch over if flights are in fact direct or marketing fluff isn't something that wikipedia should be overly concerned with.
At the moment point 7 isn't the clearest and could be changed. I would like to change it but I am not going to change it to reflect ambiguous rules that cannot properly checked. There is no real way to check if a direct flight continues on the same plane unless someone physically checks or it is obvious as in a milk run at a small airport.
I would like to see direct flights, code shares, timetable directs, flight numbers and schedules but unless the information is accurate and easy to keep accurate I don't how include any of it. There is enough argument on some of the pages about direct flights perhaps there can be a better way to include them? 68.174.231.169 ( talk) 00:02, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
We already have practices of treating "unstable" flight numbers/aircraft types/routes as "timetable directs". Example one is any continuation flight on Southwest Airlines. We don't list anything not nonstop. Example two is Delta through Narita. Every since before the Northwest merger, DL/NW kept changing flight numbers or aircraft types every few months and still doesn't seem to stabilize. HkCaGu ( talk) 00:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Two single-purpose registered accounts insisted on adding AS to the FC list on SAN's article, despite AS article's silence on FCs. I've run out of 3RR. Help needed! HkCaGu ( talk) 18:18, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Recently 24.236.176.199 ( talk · contribs) has been adding multiple maps to airport articles. They are adding multiple maps and usually outside the infobox. In the case of Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield they removed the map from the infobox added a second showing the location in England and a third showing the location in the UK (I guess they forgot to add the other two showing the location in Europe and the location in the world). Because the map is no longer in the box the article now has no coordinates in the box or at the top. I don't really feel that they add anything to the article and we should just stick with the one map in the infobox. What do others think? CambridgeBayWeather ( talk) 07:14, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
When creating/editing airport maps, should we be using the IATA or ICAO code? Different maps have different codes, so maybe there should be a standard? Personally, I prefer an IATA code, because usually they reflect the airport/city name, but either is OK with me. What do you guys think? -- Stonecutter9 05:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
I have noticed that a couple of China's airport articles have domestic/international separated with the exception of PEK and SHA (PVG has dom/intl flights separated but they operate out of the same terminal) with the table having no extra column for terminal. Can anyone take a look and see if it needs to be fixed or not. Thanks! Snoozlepet ( talk) 17:56, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
The guidelines say that airport articles are not supposed to list "private charters". But what are those? Some articles list many charter flights, like Djerba–Zarzis International Airport. Cheers. AfricaTanz ( talk) 01:12, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
So recently, I've been looking at some of the ratings on the project and I've been seeing so many outdated ratings. John F. Kennedy International Airport was ranked C-class because it lacked citations. But clearly, 130 good sources met the B-class criteria, so it was a B-class. Here are a few flaws to the rating system I see:
To sum up my big point, the criterion just isn't as in-depth and defined as well as it should be. There's a lot more than the number of inline citations or how much in each and every section there is. There just needs some work done on the specifics.
Thanks, fellow aviators
Your pal,
WorldTraveller101
Breaks
Fixes 00:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi all, longtime admirer of your Wikiproject. Wanted to let you know that Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark has been nominated for deletion. If any editor has constructive history, data, events, or other material to add to the article I'd appreciate it! Thanks again. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 20:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't think we should have "American Eagle operated by American Eagle", even though that nowadays American Eagle can be operated by SkyWest, etc. Do we say United Airlines operated by United Airlines? No! American Eagle is a brand of multiple operators but is also itself a certificated operator. "American Eagle Airlines|American Eagle" should be sufficient. Any thought? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HkCaGu ( talk • contribs) 03:22, 2013 July 21 (UTC)
A year ago we were having lots of problems with IP users adding a bunch of non-existent destinations to airport articles en masse. For the most part, we were able to stop it by blocking some of the IPs and semi-protecting articles, but the problems have arose again. For example, Shahjalal International Airport had a one-year semiprotection on it, but it recently ended and now the page is being vandalized again, by the same 58.97 range of IP addresses. I don't know if this has been happening on other airport articles; HkCaGu ( talk · contribs) would probably know more than me. Could we have an admin like CambridgeBayWeather ( talk · contribs) or Vegaswikian ( talk · contribs) take care of this by blocking the user and/or protecting the page again? Thanks, Comp dude 123 00:19, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:AfricaTanz keeps insisting on using airlineroute.net as a source for Ethiopian Airlines to Munich and ending Brussels. As per the last discussion, there was no consensus to use that source for starting routes on Airport pages. A few airport pages may be using those sources, but not all pages are using them (and are regularly reverted by other editors in the project apart from myself). I would like to hear others thoughts on this, or hopefully start another discussion on whether to use those sources project wide before approving. Sb617 ( Talk) 23:32, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
"No consensus on the question of whether these sources are reliable for verifying airline routes. There's a range of opinions here, and a couple of the arguments (not just on one side) don't feel particularly strong in addressing the question at hand. If a reboot of this RfC is desired in the future, it may be useful to consider WP:RSN as a venue, with a notice here, to attract broader participation."