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Kamal Haasan isn't in the top 20 let alone top five figures in the Indian film industry. He's popular in same way that Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp are popular but he's not vital.
Guru Dutt has received global critical recognition as a film director and actor. He is ranked as one of the greatest ever by Time, Sight & Sound and CNN and his movies are still watched fervently in Europe and Asia. Dutt was known for bringing realism and poetry to life into film as well as his innovative lighting and shadowing techniques.
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Two icons of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, they are the most important actresses in Mexican history.
Both would go in the "Actresses" section. Mexico is underrepresented if not absent in that section, so these additions would be a great way to increase diversity.
I was originally planning to suggest just Félix, but through research I found out about del Río, who is also extremely well-known in the Spanish speaking world. Both are more than worthy of being in Vital 4, and may be worthy of Vital 3. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 00:46, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Remington is known for his historical scenes about old American west. Hopper is more famous, he is called the most important realist painter of twentieth-century America. Remington seems to me more suitable for level 5.
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Highly influential polymath, influential in philosophy, history, mathematics and public speaking.
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Rename this subcategory Philosophers, historians, jurists, political, and social scientists. (With the serial comma, of course.) Legal theorists, judges, and attorneys have a profound affect on the arc of human history. We list many in other contexts e.g., Plato and Maimonides, however there's arguably (no pun intended) room for others such as William Blackstone and Jean Baptiste Colbert and moving others to this subcategory, such as John Marshall.
As an aside, the Architect of the Capitol lists the 23 relief portraits of lawgivers depicting historical figures noted for their work in establishing the principles that underlie American law. [1] This could serve as a good starting point for potential nominations. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 23:32, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I personally think that doing what we did at VA5 would be better. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 21:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
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The fact that he founded Singapore and contributed to the rise of the British Empire substantially means that he is vital at this level.
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Emperors of Ethiopia. Major conquerors, renowned in Ethiopia. Téwodros is known especially for unification efforts, and Menelik is especially known for waging war against Italy and winning. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 01:48, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Last native prince of Wales, led a last major unsuccessful revolt against the English rule of Wales, highly influential and important in the study of UK history.
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Father of aeronautics, without him we would not have air-flight and he is thus, vital.
About 100 years ago, an Englishman, Sir George Cayley, carried the science of flight to a point which it had never reached before and which it scarcely reached again during the last century(— Wilbur Wright, 1909; from here) Yep. J 947( c ) ( m) 05:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
I'd prefer the Montgolfier brothers being included before Cayley as far as pioneers in aviation go. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:08, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
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Lance had significantly more international renown and prominence in cycling then Miguel. Lance was removed when the doping got confirmed but i think it was a knee jerk reaction. The doping only improves his vitalness as now not only is he the biggest cycling star he is also the clear personage of doping in sport and thus if you were to write the history of sport and you were to include cycling the fallout from the Armstrong scandal is what you'd write about before you got to Miguel.
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Long and distinguished history. We are underrepresented in history articles for South America. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 22:21, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
History of Colombia is also on my mind. The thought of adding Peru and/or Colombia to level 3 vital 1000 comes to me too. Carl wev 10:32, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
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Not sure why a Polish trade union is listed when we don't have trade unions for any other country. As Template:Cold War shows, there are far more important articles about the Cold War not on the list than this union, which isn't linked in the template. That aside, modern Eastern Europe is already well represented, with more articles than any other region in the world in the modern history section. And we are significantly over quota.
It's not in the right location anyway. It should probably be placed alongside trade union itself if it was vital. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:16, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Another island group that should be added. They are geographically unique as they are the only major islands in that part of the South Atlantic Ocean.
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I'm surprised it isn't here!
My concern is the overlap. Oceania as a whole consists of Australasia, Polynesia, Melanesia and Micronesia. We list all of these island groups separately. And the Pacific Islands refer to Polynesia, Melanesia and Micronesia collectively. It's pretty much Oceania minus Australia. I feel that this is a bit like adding British Overseas Territories (the UK minus the British Isles) or Territories of the United States. Gizza ( t)( c) 21:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
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Often used term. J 947( c ) ( m) 22:02, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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Subject is an autonomous community in Spain. We already have Galicia, so why not Andalusia?
Spearheaded by its cultural centers Seville and Córdoba, Andalusia is the origin of many of the cultural traits and practices the world associates with Spain, especially flamenco and bullfighting. The crucial historical event in Andalusia is the Umayyad conquest of Hispania, which left behind a deep tradition of Islam in Spain, especially in Andalusia. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:13, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Highest populated city in France not on the list. France is underrepresented comparing to Germany, the UK, and Italy. J 947( c ) ( m) 19:06, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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There are a few Southeast Asian countries that are underrepresented in the cities section. Thailand and Vietnam for instance only have two cities each. Da Nang is the political, financial culture centre of Central Vietnam and is the third largest city after Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) and Hanoi by urbanization and economy. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:35, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
I think Vietnam deserves at least 3 cities, outside China, Japan and Korea, the rest of East Asia seems a little underrepresented, this city has 1.3 million people and over 1000 years history. Carl wev 02:00, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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As the most important city in southeastern Nigeria and where coal in Nigeria was first discovered.
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Canberra just passed addition as a VA/4 article. California has more people than Australia (by more than 10 million), but has one fewer city on the VA/4 list (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Canberra vs. LA, San Fran, San Jose and San Diego). Sacramento is a bigger metro area than Canberra (a lot bigger, actually: 2 million vs. about half a million). Both are capitals. Both places speak English. p b p 00:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The article has a long history sectionis just natural bias issues coming into play and that it
still ranks among the top cities in its regiondoes not help the cause much (then that would be an argument for putting in tiny Whitehorse, for example) and the top 5 it only barely makes the cut (or perhaps not).
It is currently overshadowed by Los Angeles and San Franciscoimplies that it takes 3rd place in California. It just doesn't. In response to
the city apparently played a key role in the 19th century development of California: I doubt that and even with that
keyin this case probably means
reasonablewhich then means about 3rd in that era. These days it is around 7th. I'm just going back and forth here with a load of thoughts with little impact. In conclusion we can always remove it from the list if this section gets over-quota (though it would require someone to remember), and its case is very marginal, and I do not know which way I would go if this was proposed while the 'Geography' section was one below quota. I might stay at Neutral or lean over extremely marginally one way (i.e. 'Very weak oppose'). However, we are not
one below quota; we are 25 below quota here and that won't change much with the current proposals. Bias issues still prevail: is my position in the Pacific (NZ) encouraging me, one way or the other? Page views are not very useful here but here we go: [1]. That was some interesting results that show that despite our high American readership Canberra still trumps Sacramento. Sacramento is without doubt the next city in California at least ( [2]). Being a capital (and an inland one not close to the centre of population at that) of a major state signifies importance in the 19th century in comparison with Canberra (which was built in preparation for being a capital in the 1910s) and that would be a reason why the low viewership. But then again just having the status of being a capital will trigger views... Sorry for the essay about it. J 947 ( c · m) 20:33, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
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I think the section of "Fictional characters" is confusing. It includes Aladdin, but technically, Aladdin is not an article about a fictional character "Aladdin" but about a folk tale featuring Aladdin. Cinderella is also an article about a certain type of folk tale, not focusing on a fictional character. Judging from other entries in "Fictional characters", however, it seems that the articles about fictional characters themselves are required - for example, we need the article of Peter Pan separate from Peter and Wendy (the literary work in which Peter Pan appears) and that of Superman separate from Superman (comic book). I think the categorisation is confusing ... How about making a category about folk tales and moving Aladdin and Cinderella to it? -- saebou ( talk) 04:54, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
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Concepts are the fundamental building blocks of our thoughts and beliefs. Perhaps even level 3! J 947( c ) ( m) 01:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
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We removed all lists, even substantial ones like list of chemical elements and list of sovereign states and more. Even though this article looks like it is quite substantial, is it just a fleshed out list? there is a category Category:Religious denominations where one can see similar articles. Why do single out the article on branches of Islam to include, but we do not list Christian denominations, Hindu denominations, Jewish religious movements, or Schools of Buddhism, etc, and I think we removed Religious denomination itself a long time ago. We listed Islamic schools and branches at the 1000 list but removed it there too for similar reasons see here. Should we remove it here too, or should we list the other religion's branches articles too to match, or leave as it is? Carl wev 04:43, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
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Widespread consumption and significant scholarly study make this subject an excellent addition to the "Hot drinks" section. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
significant scholarly study, which I believe.
Listing different types of tea is pointlessly redundant
bloatedif we start adding all these sub-articles.
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It's odd that the most popular type of bowling is missing in the world while less popular versions like bocce and bowls are listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 21:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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We list Swimming (sport), but most people who swim do not do it whist competing in a professional sport, they do it for general recreation or fitness, and to a lesser degree some jobs and military tasks, not to mention basic locomotion and survival when in the water. We list other things in duplication where two similar articles exist like sailing in addition to sailing (sport), and cycling in addition to cycling (sport). I believe swimming is one of the oldest and most widespread of activities, a very large proportion of people in most parts of the world swim, and they have done since prehistoric times, it's much more important compared to many things we list in recreation. To not list it because we list the professional sport would be like removing the car because we list Auto racing, or removing running, sailing or cycling and saying they are redundant to 100m, sailing sport and Tour De France. The article on the sport does not cover non-sport information like prehistoric people believed to have swam, children learning to swim, military uses, or job uses like pearl diving. We also list 2 swimmers, swimming pool, diving, underwater diving, scuba diving, rowing, canoeing and more water sports too. If we can have 3 articles for types and diving and individual swimmers, I'm sure we should list the basic article on swimming. The basic swimming article appears in about double the language wikis compared to the sport article at about 45 for swimming sport and 90 for swimming; the sport article has more page views though however.
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Discuss The 32 ethnic groups in here appear very random. We have seven indigenous American tribes, but no European Americans. We have Hmong people but no Japanese people. And there are no South American people at all! There should be some overarching logic agreed for this section, such as "inclusion of the 30 largest primary ethnic groups, plus 10 other particularly notable groups". Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:31, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
We do not have any descriptions of inclusion criteria within the actual lists that I'm aware of, or maybe there is but very minimal. We can discus that option if we wish. Any description could be regular text, tiny text, collapsible text. We could have a description on the page itself or link to the talk page where it's discussed. My main fear is it would be a time consuming job, and at this time there are over 50 talk page archives, discussion about a whole section could be spread out across different archives from different times, and discussion about individual articles in a section, which sometimes brings up important points about the section it's in, are going to be even more spread out across multiple archives, so linking to them or reading through them to write a summary would be tricky. Many areas, many interesting and decent ideas have been bought up for criteria for inclusion, but I'm not sure they are all universally agreed upon; some probably are more than others. Most criteria are rough guides with some exceptions rather than hard rules. I'm not necessarily against the idea, I think it would be difficult and time consuming to put in place and the rules would have to be agreed upon by all or most. Most lists have been discussed on a case by case basis, there has been some discussion about whole section criteria but I think that is relatively rarer.... Also Slavs are included I believe. Turkic peoples have been brought up, but we don't list them. We used to list Turkish people but removed it, primarily as redundant to Turkey. I think Turkic people are at least worth discussing, I would need to think about it, but I think I would support it. You are right about Jews. There are several definitions of the meaning "Jews" but it normally means more than just a follower of Judaism, and is combination of ethno cultural religious linguistic meanings together, or Ethnoreligious group as you said. We listed Muslim but removed it primarily as redundant to Islam, I am sure we do not or would not list Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc as they redundant to the article on the religion. We list Race at level 4, Ethnic group is listed at level 2 (where even gender is not listed). List of ethnic groups or List of Diasporas.... We have a kind of rule, that list articles are not allowed, there are many lists we could include. Listing individual diaspora articles, you could bring it up, we would need to discus each, and include only the most significant, as there are loads, and a list of them here could soon get huge, but we manage to hold a "History of nation" section for the most significant nations without much trouble. I don't think we list any diasporas other than Bantu expansion, and Diaspora itself, which I think was my idea.
I wonder how many articles of similar vein could come to mind. We have "history of x", a few "cuisine of x", "music of x" literature of x" "economy of x" we do not list any "religion of x", "culture of x", "geography of x", "climate of x", and many many more, and other than Bantu expansion, no "diaspora of x" (which way round the words are is not normally relevant eg. presuming African Music and Music of Africa etc etc to mean the same). Some articles like Culture of India and others are quite significant topics and articles. If we start considering Armenian Diaspora, why not culture of India, Religion in China, Climate of Europe, Languages of Pakistan. Not saying we can't. A while back there where no literature of x articles, no literature of nation/language/region/people/religion I started discussion on Literature of..., and got articles like English literature, Chinese literature, Spanish literature and several others added one by one, discussing each one at a time, now we have a list of the most significant "literature" by language/culture, so it can work. If you wish to start thinking about discussing diaspora go ahead. I would suggest looking for the most significant first, and writing a good argument. I would suspect people would reply saying if we include Armenian Diaspora, why not Jewish, Arab, Chinese, Swedish, Irish, Sri Lankan etc etc I imagine there are loads of regions with several million emigrants, the ones we include would need careful discussion as to which we want and which we don't, we have managed it with history of nation, and ethnic groups, so it could work in theory, but I would predict some opposition.
Multiracial or something similar may be worth discussing. Carl wev 16:58, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
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Nowadays populist political parties and politicians play a vital role in Europe and the U.S.
Isn't elitism another word for Oligarchy and populism a form of communication i.e., us-versus-them? They're undoubtedly important concepts in political rhetoric, however their inclusion on the vital articles list seems wanting. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 03:58, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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Important part of the human anatomy, and major turning point in animal evolution, a good article could be written on this topic if we find decent sources.
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Numerous different species have evolved venom, among them snakes, lizards, some mammals, spiders, scorpions, jellyfish, fish, amphibians, centipedes, wasps, and more. different venom kills about 60,000 people a year combined, more vital than some individual insects and fish we list for example.
Venom is a type of toxin, which in turn is a type of poison and we have both of those. I'll still think about venom though. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:16, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
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One of the most studied eukaryotic model organisms, and has been used for brewing and baking since ancient times.
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A fungal infection in animals, including humans. Subject is wide and deep. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:47, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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I've withdrawn my previous nomination of steam in favor of this nomination. The article on water vapor is more well-developed. And since steam is just water vapor created through boiling water, the article on water vapor is the broader subject matter and should be the article that gets listed.
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Synthetic polymers -
Nylon and
Polyester - are currently at
Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Expanded/Technology#Fabrics_and_fibers_(15_articles). However their articles are mostly about their chemistry, and both are used for much more than fibers - nylon is used for food packaging, polyester for bottles, films, tarpaulin, canoes, liquid crystal displays, holograms, filters, dielectric film for capacitors, film insulation for wire and insulating tapes
.
Polyethylene is literally the most common plastic and is yet somehow not here as far as I can tell.
Either that or have a section in technology about plastics. Definitely thinking that in a separate proposal to add many of the plastics at Plastic#Common_plastics, which are vital for modern life. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 06:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Nylon is rated as top-importance in wikiproject chemicals but isn't even classified in wikiproject technology. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 07:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
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Just important in general - first "living" compound synthesized. An important compound produced by a significant portion of living things etc. I'm currently just seeing about adding all the top-importance chemicals as per wikiproject chemicals..
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Add pH - obvious importance in being very widely used.
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We currently list both Scythe and Sickle. They are very similar tools used for similar purposes. The primary difference between the two seems to be that one is usually a 1-handed tool and the other is usually a 2-handed tool. I don't think we need to list both.
So let's just get the tally straight: 8–0 for addition; 4–3–1 on removal. Will do another check in 5 days. J 947( c ) ( m) 04:54, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Flags are not the only thing that makes things important. With animals, eagles and dragons appear much more on flags than dogs, sheep, cattle or even humans, does this mean one is more important the other? Some symbols are just more popular to heraldry, probably simply because they look, cooler, for want of a better word. The sickle was used in the communist symbol, then copied across several flags in nations adopting that ideology, it wasn't used numerous times completely interdependently. Carl wev 20:18, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
The article Scythe was created in May 2003; Wheelbarrow in June that year; and Sickle a year after Scythe. That was in the opposite order to what I expected. Could we remove the scythe instead as just a agricultural tool with no other meaning and less known than the wheelbarrow while still adding the latter? J 947 ( c · m) 19:26, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
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Let's get this quota to the exact figure and add this weirdly missing topic. J 947( c ) ( m) 03:42, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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Sometimes, nominations will remain open over a year before they pass. It can take a long time for some proposals to "cook". Contributors to this page are usually pretty good about leaving them open after they could be closed if it looks like they have a chance of success, but it has always bothered me that anyone could come along at any time and shut the nomination down when if left open longer it could succeed. I propose changing to the following nomination closure rules to more accurately reflect the convention of letting nominations with a chance of success to continue to remain open long after they could have been closed.
"After 30 days any proposal may be closed as FAILED if it has earned at least 3 4 opposes and failed to earn two-thirds support; or it may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if the proposal hasn't received any !votes for 30 120 or more days regardless of the current !vote tally.
After 60 180 days any proposal may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if it has failed to earn at least 5 support !votes and two-thirds support. Please be patient with our process; we believe that an informed discussion with more editors is likely to produce an improved and more stable list."
Just to clarify, is that so many days from the day the nomination was proposed or the from the date of the last vote/discussion? I think in practice we do a good job of keeping nominations open when active discussions take place, so it seems like this is more of a codified guidance than a hard-and-fast rule. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 19:34, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
On a related matter, should we specify how soon someone can renominate an article whose previous nomination failed or gained no consensus? Perhaps 180 days? ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 19:34, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
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Moving forward, let's use {{Archive top red}}
to indicate nominations which did not pass, {{Archive top green}}
for nominations which pass, and the blue default {{Archive top}}
for nominations which do not garner consensus. All other parameters remain the same.
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Polite reminder, when a proposal has been correctly closed and archived, which several have earlier today, one should probably complete the process or things will get forgotten and start to be incorrect, things appear to have been forgotten or overlooked. One should add or remove the VA template on said article's talk page; add the article the the relevant list, or remove it, and adjust the count numbers of the section headers that have changed in the list. It can be time consuming and easy to forget some of it, but I'm sure myself or other users can help with it if it's a little tricky. ...But I don't have a lot of spare time today. If one is unsure ask for help or mimic what other user's have done when closing threads in the past Carl wev 17:47, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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I noticed that all subpages of WP:VA/E transclude this page (with {{Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/Nav bar}}), however the people and physical sciences subpages, unlike other ones, do not show the link to the Level 5 subpage at all. Can other Wikipedians explain why?-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 15:06, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
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The article previously at Indochina was renamed to Mainland Southeast Asia last year, and the current Indochina article is now specifically about the term rather than the geographical region. The bot recently moved the vital article tag to the new Indochina article. Is this the intended outcome, or should the list be updated to follow the page moves? Does this require a formal discussion above? -- Paul_012 ( talk) 04:11, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
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Put the archive templates inside the section header. It is really messing up my archiving. Thanks. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 03:49, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
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Not a top ten comedian or actor, many more notable actors that are not on here then him. Highly famous but not influential, suited exactly for the level 5 list. This current generation of actors should be evaluated for this list in around 2060/2050.
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"One of the most widely respected TV broadcasters and has become known as the face and voice of natural history documentaries." (Biographyonline) According to BBC, "Sir David helped invent the natural history documentary as we know it today." [3] See also Archive 32#Add David Attenborough.
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Diana Ross is mainly and chiefly notable for being apart of The Supremes, her solo career does not compare to John Lennon who we removed. It's almost unlikely a band member would also be notable for something outside of their band. This raises an issue for this list Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Buddy Holly and Bob Marley's recordings are almost entirely apart of a band but the frontperson is listed, we are giving them an exception to the rule kinda.
the premier act of Motown Records during the 1960spower~enwiki ( π, ν) 03:40, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
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The most notable pirate who has become apart of folklore, had a major impact on shipping and trade (thus the economy) in his time and area. We lack crime figures other then Guy Fawkes and Al Capone and he is more notable and vital then both. Majority of people if they had to name one pirate it would be him, i think all dominant household names of a field should be listed. He has 48 different language articles on wikidata. I also think Jack the Ripper, Pablo Escobar, Lucky Luciano and Charles Manson are notable enough in the field of crime, but i will start here as Blackbeard has had more effect on history than just crime.
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Honestly, he's one of the least vital on this list (which is over the limit with more notable people left off). Boxing is not as vital as some sports with less (Cycling), and even if so there's way too many modern boxers and lighter weight class boxing has never really had a mainstream impact. Only 20 different language articles on wikidata. Not known worldwide. More insider technical boxing knowledge then something a general encyclopedia needs.
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I think this article is equal in vitality with other regional history artilces that we list such as History of the Caribbean, History of Scandinavia, and History of Southeast Asia. Rreagan007 ( talk) 19:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
I think I'd prefer History of Southern Europe and History of North Africa separately. And maybe History of the ancient Levant. FWIW, we can have redlinks on the list (e.g. moiety used to be redlink). Gizza ( t)( c) 23:55, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Southern Africa is under represented. Also, I would like to move Mozambique, Angola, Zambia, and Zimbabwe into that sub-section as it is too small for my liking. J 947( c ) ( m) 05:11, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
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Ethiopia appears to be the only country with over a population of 100 million with only one city on the list (being the capital Addis Adaba). Dire Dawa is one of the two chartered cities in Ethiopia along with Addis Adaba, signifying its importance to the country. Every other part of Ethiopia is administered as a regional state.
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Per above. Ethiopia is under-represented and has a high enough population in my opinion to automatically warrant three cities included. J 947( c ) ( m) 04:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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Not sure why we need a folk patriotic song of one country. It's not even the most popular patriotic song among Americans. The American national anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner, gets more than eight times the number of eyeballs. [4]. We could add national anthem if we want to cover this space though there are probably other genres that are more important.
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The Beach Boys, two American albums (What's Going On & Thriller) and Sgt. Pepper's are listed. Level 5 suits better for albums. -- Thi ( talk) 20:13, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Level 5 suits better for albumsand
only a handful of songs and albums should be listed at Level 4. J 947 ( c), at 21:21, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
I would remove "What's Going On" too. We removed people like Stevie Wonder, I don't see why Marvin Gaye should get an album in addition to himself. Carl wev 20:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
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See above.
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The quota is over and we should probably make cuts also in the classical music section. Debussy's La mer is an example of orchestral work and there are other representatives of Romantic music on the list.
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Probably the least well-known of the listed historical films.
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Not vital in encyclopedia. At this level these (bad) films are pop culture bloat.
I think we shouldn't just have movies that have won several oscars had critical acclaim and are studied by art critics. Even if one could describe it as a bad movie, very few movies if any are as influential and have had as much impact on popular culture than this one. Movies/franchises don't generally get there own entries in encyclopedias, but if they did I'm sure this would be one of the first listed, if we are listing movies at all, which we are at the moment we should list both movies with artistic and cinematography brilliance and acclaim and movies with huge impact on popular culture. We already list many more movies important for artistic reasons than popularity. We also list other popular culture things which are big but probably have less impact on society like Mario, Pokemon, Harry Potter, Peanuts, X-Men and many more. Carl wev 15:17, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
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This is listed in Category:Top-importance Sexuality articles ”This article is about sexual practices and related social aspects. For broader aspects of sexual behaviour, see Human sexuality.” Maybe these and Sexual intercourse are all vital, despite some overlap.
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This is also possibly a vital subject.
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Century old major martial art. The most important one out of South America. Highly popular worldwide.
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Just to note that it is currently 1–1–3 on airsoft and 4–1 on paintball. J 947( c ) ( m) 06:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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There are quite a few FISU sports that are not listed here link. It's a slightly strange rationale as there may be important sports missing that should be listed but aren't in the 27th Annual Summer Universiade. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:29, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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We have racism, but not race. Race is a controversial subject, with many competing definitions and perspectives - but probably everyone agrees that it is of extraordinary significance for understanding contemporary society. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
We have Ethnic group here and up to the level 2 100 list, but in a 10'000 strong list the overlap I think is acceptable, we should have race and ethnic group here. Carl wev 20:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
This article is already listed under Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Expanded/Society_and_social_sciences#Social_status_(26_articles). Rreagan007 ( talk) 21:11, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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This is just an example of heavy horse and a Good article. There exists only 5,000 Clydesdales worldwide. Draft horse would be more vital article. See Archive 36#Restructure horse articles.
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These articles have been added without the normal discussion/voting, so it's right to just remove them, hey? Just checking. I'll probably be a bit busy so if anyone wants to do it they can, too. Make sure the talk page tags get removed too, as they were added aswell. GuzzyG ( talk) 17:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
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An example of nonfiction literature. Probably not vital at this level. -- Thi ( talk) 21:17, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
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Fritz Lang is listed in Peoples section. Three science fiction films on the list is much. In my opinion, we can list the general article Science fiction film.
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One of the main film genres. "Science fiction often expresses the potential of technology to destroy humankind and easily overlaps with horror films". [5] I suggest adding both.
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See above.
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A discontinued operating system from the 1980s.
The nominating statement is not stating anything other than a fact. Being discontinued doesn't mean it isn't vital. I'll still take this into account though; we are recentist in this section. J 947 ( c), at 03:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
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No offense intended, but I think that some of the closures earlier today are questionable. They all conform to our closing guidelines, but they (especially the no consensus ones) are intended to be bare minimums.
In particlular a closure I find annoying was that of /Archive 55#Add populism and elitism. No one had explicitly opposed the addition of Elitism, but only 4 people supported it. It needed just 1 more support to be added. This in my opinion just justifies why the extension of the no consensus closure guidelines is an excellent idea. That discussion was rather ironically closed and archived today as well.
Also, the closure of 4–2's where one more opinion either way would get a conclusive closure is also rather distressing. And don't let me get started on why closing and archiving in the space of 24 hours is a bad idea...
P. S. I am happy that the same person that did the closures made heaps more discussions along the way. :) J 947 ( c), at 07:18, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
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Maybe we need only one stand-up comedian at this level.
If we're removing stand up comedians these 3 are probably the last ones that need to go George Carlin is always rated number two or one (behind Richard Pryor), Lenny Bruce is the first historically important comedians of an older age (Along with Frank Fay) and Bill Cosby is the only black person listed and was also supremely important in television. GuzzyG ( talk) 09:50, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
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He may have been voted number one in one poll but he is outdone by Monty Python, and he is not more significant then Frank Fay or Three Stooges who we do not list. He only has 17 different language articles on wikidata.
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I noticed that this list does not have a single ancient Greek sculptor on it, which is really a glaring omission considering ancient Greek sculpture's extreme historical significance. (In fact, all the famous sculptors of the Renaissance, of which we have two listed, were deliberately imitating the sculptures of the ancient Greeks; Michelangelo even started out forging them.) The Greek sculptural tradition lasted for over a millennium, but I decided that you would probably not tolerate more than one representative of it, so I have chosen Phidias as a representative. He sculpted the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, which was revered as the greatest sculpture of the ancient world and was listed as one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. He also sculpted the Athena Parthenos, which stood inside the Parthenon and was revered as one of the greatest sculptures on earth, and the Athena Promachos, which was an extremely influential work of outdoor colossal sculpture that provided the basic model for the Colossus of Rhodes, the Statue of Liberty, and almost every other Western colossal statue ever since. He was also partially responsible for designing the Parthenon itself, which is one of the most important monuments in world history. -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 11:41, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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We don't need it at this level anymore, we have Level 5.
Previous discussion at /Archive_9#Swap:_Remove_W._S._Gilbert_and_Arthur_Sullivan,_Add_Gilbert_and_Sullivan. J 947 ( c), at 04:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand the nominating rationale. Level 5 in no way effects Level 4. J 947 ( c), at 04:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
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We removed Bluegrass it self earlier, so we should have removed it's inventor too, bluegrass has had no impact on country arguably itself and certainly has not had vital impact on history or the world. Bill is known to a niche audience in America and considering we have removed the likes of Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, Nirvana (band) and Elton John it makes sense to say he's not on this list's level, he is suitable for level 5.
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The third-best American golfer when we only need two. p b p 13:33, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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In principle, Crime fiction is more general article, but this is probably the most essential.
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Keats' most notable works, though Bright star, would I were steadfast as thou art might be more famous. John Keats is listed as a biography, that might be enough at this level. power~enwiki ( π, ν) 22:36, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
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Game of the Goose is more significant than modern games like to Cluedo or Risk althought it has much fewer entires in wikidata Dawid2009 ( talk) 20:10, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
Is it more vital than Snakes and Ladders or Ludo (board game)? which are not listed. Carl wev 19:26, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
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Seems an important topic we've missed. p b p 08:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
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Archive 50 | ← | Archive 53 | Archive 54 | Archive 55 | Archive 56 | Archive 57 | → | Archive 60 |
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Kamal Haasan isn't in the top 20 let alone top five figures in the Indian film industry. He's popular in same way that Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp are popular but he's not vital.
Guru Dutt has received global critical recognition as a film director and actor. He is ranked as one of the greatest ever by Time, Sight & Sound and CNN and his movies are still watched fervently in Europe and Asia. Dutt was known for bringing realism and poetry to life into film as well as his innovative lighting and shadowing techniques.
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Two icons of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, they are the most important actresses in Mexican history.
Both would go in the "Actresses" section. Mexico is underrepresented if not absent in that section, so these additions would be a great way to increase diversity.
I was originally planning to suggest just Félix, but through research I found out about del Río, who is also extremely well-known in the Spanish speaking world. Both are more than worthy of being in Vital 4, and may be worthy of Vital 3. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 00:46, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Remington is known for his historical scenes about old American west. Hopper is more famous, he is called the most important realist painter of twentieth-century America. Remington seems to me more suitable for level 5.
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Highly influential polymath, influential in philosophy, history, mathematics and public speaking.
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Rename this subcategory Philosophers, historians, jurists, political, and social scientists. (With the serial comma, of course.) Legal theorists, judges, and attorneys have a profound affect on the arc of human history. We list many in other contexts e.g., Plato and Maimonides, however there's arguably (no pun intended) room for others such as William Blackstone and Jean Baptiste Colbert and moving others to this subcategory, such as John Marshall.
As an aside, the Architect of the Capitol lists the 23 relief portraits of lawgivers depicting historical figures noted for their work in establishing the principles that underlie American law. [1] This could serve as a good starting point for potential nominations. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 23:32, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I personally think that doing what we did at VA5 would be better. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 21:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
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The fact that he founded Singapore and contributed to the rise of the British Empire substantially means that he is vital at this level.
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Emperors of Ethiopia. Major conquerors, renowned in Ethiopia. Téwodros is known especially for unification efforts, and Menelik is especially known for waging war against Italy and winning. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 01:48, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Last native prince of Wales, led a last major unsuccessful revolt against the English rule of Wales, highly influential and important in the study of UK history.
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Father of aeronautics, without him we would not have air-flight and he is thus, vital.
About 100 years ago, an Englishman, Sir George Cayley, carried the science of flight to a point which it had never reached before and which it scarcely reached again during the last century(— Wilbur Wright, 1909; from here) Yep. J 947( c ) ( m) 05:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
I'd prefer the Montgolfier brothers being included before Cayley as far as pioneers in aviation go. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:08, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
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Lance had significantly more international renown and prominence in cycling then Miguel. Lance was removed when the doping got confirmed but i think it was a knee jerk reaction. The doping only improves his vitalness as now not only is he the biggest cycling star he is also the clear personage of doping in sport and thus if you were to write the history of sport and you were to include cycling the fallout from the Armstrong scandal is what you'd write about before you got to Miguel.
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Long and distinguished history. We are underrepresented in history articles for South America. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 22:21, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
History of Colombia is also on my mind. The thought of adding Peru and/or Colombia to level 3 vital 1000 comes to me too. Carl wev 10:32, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
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Not sure why a Polish trade union is listed when we don't have trade unions for any other country. As Template:Cold War shows, there are far more important articles about the Cold War not on the list than this union, which isn't linked in the template. That aside, modern Eastern Europe is already well represented, with more articles than any other region in the world in the modern history section. And we are significantly over quota.
It's not in the right location anyway. It should probably be placed alongside trade union itself if it was vital. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:16, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Another island group that should be added. They are geographically unique as they are the only major islands in that part of the South Atlantic Ocean.
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I'm surprised it isn't here!
My concern is the overlap. Oceania as a whole consists of Australasia, Polynesia, Melanesia and Micronesia. We list all of these island groups separately. And the Pacific Islands refer to Polynesia, Melanesia and Micronesia collectively. It's pretty much Oceania minus Australia. I feel that this is a bit like adding British Overseas Territories (the UK minus the British Isles) or Territories of the United States. Gizza ( t)( c) 21:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
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Often used term. J 947( c ) ( m) 22:02, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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Subject is an autonomous community in Spain. We already have Galicia, so why not Andalusia?
Spearheaded by its cultural centers Seville and Córdoba, Andalusia is the origin of many of the cultural traits and practices the world associates with Spain, especially flamenco and bullfighting. The crucial historical event in Andalusia is the Umayyad conquest of Hispania, which left behind a deep tradition of Islam in Spain, especially in Andalusia. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:13, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Highest populated city in France not on the list. France is underrepresented comparing to Germany, the UK, and Italy. J 947( c ) ( m) 19:06, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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There are a few Southeast Asian countries that are underrepresented in the cities section. Thailand and Vietnam for instance only have two cities each. Da Nang is the political, financial culture centre of Central Vietnam and is the third largest city after Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) and Hanoi by urbanization and economy. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:35, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
I think Vietnam deserves at least 3 cities, outside China, Japan and Korea, the rest of East Asia seems a little underrepresented, this city has 1.3 million people and over 1000 years history. Carl wev 02:00, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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As the most important city in southeastern Nigeria and where coal in Nigeria was first discovered.
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Canberra just passed addition as a VA/4 article. California has more people than Australia (by more than 10 million), but has one fewer city on the VA/4 list (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Canberra vs. LA, San Fran, San Jose and San Diego). Sacramento is a bigger metro area than Canberra (a lot bigger, actually: 2 million vs. about half a million). Both are capitals. Both places speak English. p b p 00:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The article has a long history sectionis just natural bias issues coming into play and that it
still ranks among the top cities in its regiondoes not help the cause much (then that would be an argument for putting in tiny Whitehorse, for example) and the top 5 it only barely makes the cut (or perhaps not).
It is currently overshadowed by Los Angeles and San Franciscoimplies that it takes 3rd place in California. It just doesn't. In response to
the city apparently played a key role in the 19th century development of California: I doubt that and even with that
keyin this case probably means
reasonablewhich then means about 3rd in that era. These days it is around 7th. I'm just going back and forth here with a load of thoughts with little impact. In conclusion we can always remove it from the list if this section gets over-quota (though it would require someone to remember), and its case is very marginal, and I do not know which way I would go if this was proposed while the 'Geography' section was one below quota. I might stay at Neutral or lean over extremely marginally one way (i.e. 'Very weak oppose'). However, we are not
one below quota; we are 25 below quota here and that won't change much with the current proposals. Bias issues still prevail: is my position in the Pacific (NZ) encouraging me, one way or the other? Page views are not very useful here but here we go: [1]. That was some interesting results that show that despite our high American readership Canberra still trumps Sacramento. Sacramento is without doubt the next city in California at least ( [2]). Being a capital (and an inland one not close to the centre of population at that) of a major state signifies importance in the 19th century in comparison with Canberra (which was built in preparation for being a capital in the 1910s) and that would be a reason why the low viewership. But then again just having the status of being a capital will trigger views... Sorry for the essay about it. J 947 ( c · m) 20:33, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
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I think the section of "Fictional characters" is confusing. It includes Aladdin, but technically, Aladdin is not an article about a fictional character "Aladdin" but about a folk tale featuring Aladdin. Cinderella is also an article about a certain type of folk tale, not focusing on a fictional character. Judging from other entries in "Fictional characters", however, it seems that the articles about fictional characters themselves are required - for example, we need the article of Peter Pan separate from Peter and Wendy (the literary work in which Peter Pan appears) and that of Superman separate from Superman (comic book). I think the categorisation is confusing ... How about making a category about folk tales and moving Aladdin and Cinderella to it? -- saebou ( talk) 04:54, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
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Concepts are the fundamental building blocks of our thoughts and beliefs. Perhaps even level 3! J 947( c ) ( m) 01:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
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We removed all lists, even substantial ones like list of chemical elements and list of sovereign states and more. Even though this article looks like it is quite substantial, is it just a fleshed out list? there is a category Category:Religious denominations where one can see similar articles. Why do single out the article on branches of Islam to include, but we do not list Christian denominations, Hindu denominations, Jewish religious movements, or Schools of Buddhism, etc, and I think we removed Religious denomination itself a long time ago. We listed Islamic schools and branches at the 1000 list but removed it there too for similar reasons see here. Should we remove it here too, or should we list the other religion's branches articles too to match, or leave as it is? Carl wev 04:43, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
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Widespread consumption and significant scholarly study make this subject an excellent addition to the "Hot drinks" section. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
significant scholarly study, which I believe.
Listing different types of tea is pointlessly redundant
bloatedif we start adding all these sub-articles.
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It's odd that the most popular type of bowling is missing in the world while less popular versions like bocce and bowls are listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 21:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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We list Swimming (sport), but most people who swim do not do it whist competing in a professional sport, they do it for general recreation or fitness, and to a lesser degree some jobs and military tasks, not to mention basic locomotion and survival when in the water. We list other things in duplication where two similar articles exist like sailing in addition to sailing (sport), and cycling in addition to cycling (sport). I believe swimming is one of the oldest and most widespread of activities, a very large proportion of people in most parts of the world swim, and they have done since prehistoric times, it's much more important compared to many things we list in recreation. To not list it because we list the professional sport would be like removing the car because we list Auto racing, or removing running, sailing or cycling and saying they are redundant to 100m, sailing sport and Tour De France. The article on the sport does not cover non-sport information like prehistoric people believed to have swam, children learning to swim, military uses, or job uses like pearl diving. We also list 2 swimmers, swimming pool, diving, underwater diving, scuba diving, rowing, canoeing and more water sports too. If we can have 3 articles for types and diving and individual swimmers, I'm sure we should list the basic article on swimming. The basic swimming article appears in about double the language wikis compared to the sport article at about 45 for swimming sport and 90 for swimming; the sport article has more page views though however.
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Discuss The 32 ethnic groups in here appear very random. We have seven indigenous American tribes, but no European Americans. We have Hmong people but no Japanese people. And there are no South American people at all! There should be some overarching logic agreed for this section, such as "inclusion of the 30 largest primary ethnic groups, plus 10 other particularly notable groups". Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:31, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
We do not have any descriptions of inclusion criteria within the actual lists that I'm aware of, or maybe there is but very minimal. We can discus that option if we wish. Any description could be regular text, tiny text, collapsible text. We could have a description on the page itself or link to the talk page where it's discussed. My main fear is it would be a time consuming job, and at this time there are over 50 talk page archives, discussion about a whole section could be spread out across different archives from different times, and discussion about individual articles in a section, which sometimes brings up important points about the section it's in, are going to be even more spread out across multiple archives, so linking to them or reading through them to write a summary would be tricky. Many areas, many interesting and decent ideas have been bought up for criteria for inclusion, but I'm not sure they are all universally agreed upon; some probably are more than others. Most criteria are rough guides with some exceptions rather than hard rules. I'm not necessarily against the idea, I think it would be difficult and time consuming to put in place and the rules would have to be agreed upon by all or most. Most lists have been discussed on a case by case basis, there has been some discussion about whole section criteria but I think that is relatively rarer.... Also Slavs are included I believe. Turkic peoples have been brought up, but we don't list them. We used to list Turkish people but removed it, primarily as redundant to Turkey. I think Turkic people are at least worth discussing, I would need to think about it, but I think I would support it. You are right about Jews. There are several definitions of the meaning "Jews" but it normally means more than just a follower of Judaism, and is combination of ethno cultural religious linguistic meanings together, or Ethnoreligious group as you said. We listed Muslim but removed it primarily as redundant to Islam, I am sure we do not or would not list Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc as they redundant to the article on the religion. We list Race at level 4, Ethnic group is listed at level 2 (where even gender is not listed). List of ethnic groups or List of Diasporas.... We have a kind of rule, that list articles are not allowed, there are many lists we could include. Listing individual diaspora articles, you could bring it up, we would need to discus each, and include only the most significant, as there are loads, and a list of them here could soon get huge, but we manage to hold a "History of nation" section for the most significant nations without much trouble. I don't think we list any diasporas other than Bantu expansion, and Diaspora itself, which I think was my idea.
I wonder how many articles of similar vein could come to mind. We have "history of x", a few "cuisine of x", "music of x" literature of x" "economy of x" we do not list any "religion of x", "culture of x", "geography of x", "climate of x", and many many more, and other than Bantu expansion, no "diaspora of x" (which way round the words are is not normally relevant eg. presuming African Music and Music of Africa etc etc to mean the same). Some articles like Culture of India and others are quite significant topics and articles. If we start considering Armenian Diaspora, why not culture of India, Religion in China, Climate of Europe, Languages of Pakistan. Not saying we can't. A while back there where no literature of x articles, no literature of nation/language/region/people/religion I started discussion on Literature of..., and got articles like English literature, Chinese literature, Spanish literature and several others added one by one, discussing each one at a time, now we have a list of the most significant "literature" by language/culture, so it can work. If you wish to start thinking about discussing diaspora go ahead. I would suggest looking for the most significant first, and writing a good argument. I would suspect people would reply saying if we include Armenian Diaspora, why not Jewish, Arab, Chinese, Swedish, Irish, Sri Lankan etc etc I imagine there are loads of regions with several million emigrants, the ones we include would need careful discussion as to which we want and which we don't, we have managed it with history of nation, and ethnic groups, so it could work in theory, but I would predict some opposition.
Multiracial or something similar may be worth discussing. Carl wev 16:58, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
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Nowadays populist political parties and politicians play a vital role in Europe and the U.S.
Isn't elitism another word for Oligarchy and populism a form of communication i.e., us-versus-them? They're undoubtedly important concepts in political rhetoric, however their inclusion on the vital articles list seems wanting. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 03:58, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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Important part of the human anatomy, and major turning point in animal evolution, a good article could be written on this topic if we find decent sources.
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Numerous different species have evolved venom, among them snakes, lizards, some mammals, spiders, scorpions, jellyfish, fish, amphibians, centipedes, wasps, and more. different venom kills about 60,000 people a year combined, more vital than some individual insects and fish we list for example.
Venom is a type of toxin, which in turn is a type of poison and we have both of those. I'll still think about venom though. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:16, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
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One of the most studied eukaryotic model organisms, and has been used for brewing and baking since ancient times.
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A fungal infection in animals, including humans. Subject is wide and deep. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 02:47, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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I've withdrawn my previous nomination of steam in favor of this nomination. The article on water vapor is more well-developed. And since steam is just water vapor created through boiling water, the article on water vapor is the broader subject matter and should be the article that gets listed.
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Synthetic polymers -
Nylon and
Polyester - are currently at
Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Expanded/Technology#Fabrics_and_fibers_(15_articles). However their articles are mostly about their chemistry, and both are used for much more than fibers - nylon is used for food packaging, polyester for bottles, films, tarpaulin, canoes, liquid crystal displays, holograms, filters, dielectric film for capacitors, film insulation for wire and insulating tapes
.
Polyethylene is literally the most common plastic and is yet somehow not here as far as I can tell.
Either that or have a section in technology about plastics. Definitely thinking that in a separate proposal to add many of the plastics at Plastic#Common_plastics, which are vital for modern life. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 06:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Nylon is rated as top-importance in wikiproject chemicals but isn't even classified in wikiproject technology. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 07:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
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Just important in general - first "living" compound synthesized. An important compound produced by a significant portion of living things etc. I'm currently just seeing about adding all the top-importance chemicals as per wikiproject chemicals..
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Add pH - obvious importance in being very widely used.
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We currently list both Scythe and Sickle. They are very similar tools used for similar purposes. The primary difference between the two seems to be that one is usually a 1-handed tool and the other is usually a 2-handed tool. I don't think we need to list both.
So let's just get the tally straight: 8–0 for addition; 4–3–1 on removal. Will do another check in 5 days. J 947( c ) ( m) 04:54, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Flags are not the only thing that makes things important. With animals, eagles and dragons appear much more on flags than dogs, sheep, cattle or even humans, does this mean one is more important the other? Some symbols are just more popular to heraldry, probably simply because they look, cooler, for want of a better word. The sickle was used in the communist symbol, then copied across several flags in nations adopting that ideology, it wasn't used numerous times completely interdependently. Carl wev 20:18, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
The article Scythe was created in May 2003; Wheelbarrow in June that year; and Sickle a year after Scythe. That was in the opposite order to what I expected. Could we remove the scythe instead as just a agricultural tool with no other meaning and less known than the wheelbarrow while still adding the latter? J 947 ( c · m) 19:26, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
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Let's get this quota to the exact figure and add this weirdly missing topic. J 947( c ) ( m) 03:42, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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Sometimes, nominations will remain open over a year before they pass. It can take a long time for some proposals to "cook". Contributors to this page are usually pretty good about leaving them open after they could be closed if it looks like they have a chance of success, but it has always bothered me that anyone could come along at any time and shut the nomination down when if left open longer it could succeed. I propose changing to the following nomination closure rules to more accurately reflect the convention of letting nominations with a chance of success to continue to remain open long after they could have been closed.
"After 30 days any proposal may be closed as FAILED if it has earned at least 3 4 opposes and failed to earn two-thirds support; or it may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if the proposal hasn't received any !votes for 30 120 or more days regardless of the current !vote tally.
After 60 180 days any proposal may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if it has failed to earn at least 5 support !votes and two-thirds support. Please be patient with our process; we believe that an informed discussion with more editors is likely to produce an improved and more stable list."
Just to clarify, is that so many days from the day the nomination was proposed or the from the date of the last vote/discussion? I think in practice we do a good job of keeping nominations open when active discussions take place, so it seems like this is more of a codified guidance than a hard-and-fast rule. ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 19:34, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
On a related matter, should we specify how soon someone can renominate an article whose previous nomination failed or gained no consensus? Perhaps 180 days? ― Aidan ⦿ ( talk) 19:34, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
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Moving forward, let's use {{Archive top red}}
to indicate nominations which did not pass, {{Archive top green}}
for nominations which pass, and the blue default {{Archive top}}
for nominations which do not garner consensus. All other parameters remain the same.
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Polite reminder, when a proposal has been correctly closed and archived, which several have earlier today, one should probably complete the process or things will get forgotten and start to be incorrect, things appear to have been forgotten or overlooked. One should add or remove the VA template on said article's talk page; add the article the the relevant list, or remove it, and adjust the count numbers of the section headers that have changed in the list. It can be time consuming and easy to forget some of it, but I'm sure myself or other users can help with it if it's a little tricky. ...But I don't have a lot of spare time today. If one is unsure ask for help or mimic what other user's have done when closing threads in the past Carl wev 17:47, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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I noticed that all subpages of WP:VA/E transclude this page (with {{Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/Nav bar}}), however the people and physical sciences subpages, unlike other ones, do not show the link to the Level 5 subpage at all. Can other Wikipedians explain why?-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 15:06, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
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The article previously at Indochina was renamed to Mainland Southeast Asia last year, and the current Indochina article is now specifically about the term rather than the geographical region. The bot recently moved the vital article tag to the new Indochina article. Is this the intended outcome, or should the list be updated to follow the page moves? Does this require a formal discussion above? -- Paul_012 ( talk) 04:11, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
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Put the archive templates inside the section header. It is really messing up my archiving. Thanks. J 947 ( contribs · mail) 03:49, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
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Not a top ten comedian or actor, many more notable actors that are not on here then him. Highly famous but not influential, suited exactly for the level 5 list. This current generation of actors should be evaluated for this list in around 2060/2050.
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"One of the most widely respected TV broadcasters and has become known as the face and voice of natural history documentaries." (Biographyonline) According to BBC, "Sir David helped invent the natural history documentary as we know it today." [3] See also Archive 32#Add David Attenborough.
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Diana Ross is mainly and chiefly notable for being apart of The Supremes, her solo career does not compare to John Lennon who we removed. It's almost unlikely a band member would also be notable for something outside of their band. This raises an issue for this list Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Buddy Holly and Bob Marley's recordings are almost entirely apart of a band but the frontperson is listed, we are giving them an exception to the rule kinda.
the premier act of Motown Records during the 1960spower~enwiki ( π, ν) 03:40, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
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The most notable pirate who has become apart of folklore, had a major impact on shipping and trade (thus the economy) in his time and area. We lack crime figures other then Guy Fawkes and Al Capone and he is more notable and vital then both. Majority of people if they had to name one pirate it would be him, i think all dominant household names of a field should be listed. He has 48 different language articles on wikidata. I also think Jack the Ripper, Pablo Escobar, Lucky Luciano and Charles Manson are notable enough in the field of crime, but i will start here as Blackbeard has had more effect on history than just crime.
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Honestly, he's one of the least vital on this list (which is over the limit with more notable people left off). Boxing is not as vital as some sports with less (Cycling), and even if so there's way too many modern boxers and lighter weight class boxing has never really had a mainstream impact. Only 20 different language articles on wikidata. Not known worldwide. More insider technical boxing knowledge then something a general encyclopedia needs.
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I think this article is equal in vitality with other regional history artilces that we list such as History of the Caribbean, History of Scandinavia, and History of Southeast Asia. Rreagan007 ( talk) 19:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
I think I'd prefer History of Southern Europe and History of North Africa separately. And maybe History of the ancient Levant. FWIW, we can have redlinks on the list (e.g. moiety used to be redlink). Gizza ( t)( c) 23:55, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Southern Africa is under represented. Also, I would like to move Mozambique, Angola, Zambia, and Zimbabwe into that sub-section as it is too small for my liking. J 947( c ) ( m) 05:11, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
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Ethiopia appears to be the only country with over a population of 100 million with only one city on the list (being the capital Addis Adaba). Dire Dawa is one of the two chartered cities in Ethiopia along with Addis Adaba, signifying its importance to the country. Every other part of Ethiopia is administered as a regional state.
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Per above. Ethiopia is under-represented and has a high enough population in my opinion to automatically warrant three cities included. J 947( c ) ( m) 04:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
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Not sure why we need a folk patriotic song of one country. It's not even the most popular patriotic song among Americans. The American national anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner, gets more than eight times the number of eyeballs. [4]. We could add national anthem if we want to cover this space though there are probably other genres that are more important.
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The Beach Boys, two American albums (What's Going On & Thriller) and Sgt. Pepper's are listed. Level 5 suits better for albums. -- Thi ( talk) 20:13, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Level 5 suits better for albumsand
only a handful of songs and albums should be listed at Level 4. J 947 ( c), at 21:21, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
I would remove "What's Going On" too. We removed people like Stevie Wonder, I don't see why Marvin Gaye should get an album in addition to himself. Carl wev 20:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
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See above.
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The quota is over and we should probably make cuts also in the classical music section. Debussy's La mer is an example of orchestral work and there are other representatives of Romantic music on the list.
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Probably the least well-known of the listed historical films.
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Not vital in encyclopedia. At this level these (bad) films are pop culture bloat.
I think we shouldn't just have movies that have won several oscars had critical acclaim and are studied by art critics. Even if one could describe it as a bad movie, very few movies if any are as influential and have had as much impact on popular culture than this one. Movies/franchises don't generally get there own entries in encyclopedias, but if they did I'm sure this would be one of the first listed, if we are listing movies at all, which we are at the moment we should list both movies with artistic and cinematography brilliance and acclaim and movies with huge impact on popular culture. We already list many more movies important for artistic reasons than popularity. We also list other popular culture things which are big but probably have less impact on society like Mario, Pokemon, Harry Potter, Peanuts, X-Men and many more. Carl wev 15:17, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
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This is listed in Category:Top-importance Sexuality articles ”This article is about sexual practices and related social aspects. For broader aspects of sexual behaviour, see Human sexuality.” Maybe these and Sexual intercourse are all vital, despite some overlap.
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This is also possibly a vital subject.
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Century old major martial art. The most important one out of South America. Highly popular worldwide.
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Just to note that it is currently 1–1–3 on airsoft and 4–1 on paintball. J 947( c ) ( m) 06:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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There are quite a few FISU sports that are not listed here link. It's a slightly strange rationale as there may be important sports missing that should be listed but aren't in the 27th Annual Summer Universiade. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:29, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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We have racism, but not race. Race is a controversial subject, with many competing definitions and perspectives - but probably everyone agrees that it is of extraordinary significance for understanding contemporary society. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
We have Ethnic group here and up to the level 2 100 list, but in a 10'000 strong list the overlap I think is acceptable, we should have race and ethnic group here. Carl wev 20:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
This article is already listed under Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Expanded/Society_and_social_sciences#Social_status_(26_articles). Rreagan007 ( talk) 21:11, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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This is just an example of heavy horse and a Good article. There exists only 5,000 Clydesdales worldwide. Draft horse would be more vital article. See Archive 36#Restructure horse articles.
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These articles have been added without the normal discussion/voting, so it's right to just remove them, hey? Just checking. I'll probably be a bit busy so if anyone wants to do it they can, too. Make sure the talk page tags get removed too, as they were added aswell. GuzzyG ( talk) 17:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
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An example of nonfiction literature. Probably not vital at this level. -- Thi ( talk) 21:17, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
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Fritz Lang is listed in Peoples section. Three science fiction films on the list is much. In my opinion, we can list the general article Science fiction film.
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One of the main film genres. "Science fiction often expresses the potential of technology to destroy humankind and easily overlaps with horror films". [5] I suggest adding both.
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See above.
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A discontinued operating system from the 1980s.
The nominating statement is not stating anything other than a fact. Being discontinued doesn't mean it isn't vital. I'll still take this into account though; we are recentist in this section. J 947 ( c), at 03:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
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No offense intended, but I think that some of the closures earlier today are questionable. They all conform to our closing guidelines, but they (especially the no consensus ones) are intended to be bare minimums.
In particlular a closure I find annoying was that of /Archive 55#Add populism and elitism. No one had explicitly opposed the addition of Elitism, but only 4 people supported it. It needed just 1 more support to be added. This in my opinion just justifies why the extension of the no consensus closure guidelines is an excellent idea. That discussion was rather ironically closed and archived today as well.
Also, the closure of 4–2's where one more opinion either way would get a conclusive closure is also rather distressing. And don't let me get started on why closing and archiving in the space of 24 hours is a bad idea...
P. S. I am happy that the same person that did the closures made heaps more discussions along the way. :) J 947 ( c), at 07:18, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
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Maybe we need only one stand-up comedian at this level.
If we're removing stand up comedians these 3 are probably the last ones that need to go George Carlin is always rated number two or one (behind Richard Pryor), Lenny Bruce is the first historically important comedians of an older age (Along with Frank Fay) and Bill Cosby is the only black person listed and was also supremely important in television. GuzzyG ( talk) 09:50, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
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He may have been voted number one in one poll but he is outdone by Monty Python, and he is not more significant then Frank Fay or Three Stooges who we do not list. He only has 17 different language articles on wikidata.
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I noticed that this list does not have a single ancient Greek sculptor on it, which is really a glaring omission considering ancient Greek sculpture's extreme historical significance. (In fact, all the famous sculptors of the Renaissance, of which we have two listed, were deliberately imitating the sculptures of the ancient Greeks; Michelangelo even started out forging them.) The Greek sculptural tradition lasted for over a millennium, but I decided that you would probably not tolerate more than one representative of it, so I have chosen Phidias as a representative. He sculpted the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, which was revered as the greatest sculpture of the ancient world and was listed as one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. He also sculpted the Athena Parthenos, which stood inside the Parthenon and was revered as one of the greatest sculptures on earth, and the Athena Promachos, which was an extremely influential work of outdoor colossal sculpture that provided the basic model for the Colossus of Rhodes, the Statue of Liberty, and almost every other Western colossal statue ever since. He was also partially responsible for designing the Parthenon itself, which is one of the most important monuments in world history. -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 11:41, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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We don't need it at this level anymore, we have Level 5.
Previous discussion at /Archive_9#Swap:_Remove_W._S._Gilbert_and_Arthur_Sullivan,_Add_Gilbert_and_Sullivan. J 947 ( c), at 04:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand the nominating rationale. Level 5 in no way effects Level 4. J 947 ( c), at 04:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
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We removed Bluegrass it self earlier, so we should have removed it's inventor too, bluegrass has had no impact on country arguably itself and certainly has not had vital impact on history or the world. Bill is known to a niche audience in America and considering we have removed the likes of Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, Nirvana (band) and Elton John it makes sense to say he's not on this list's level, he is suitable for level 5.
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The third-best American golfer when we only need two. p b p 13:33, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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In principle, Crime fiction is more general article, but this is probably the most essential.
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Keats' most notable works, though Bright star, would I were steadfast as thou art might be more famous. John Keats is listed as a biography, that might be enough at this level. power~enwiki ( π, ν) 22:36, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
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Game of the Goose is more significant than modern games like to Cluedo or Risk althought it has much fewer entires in wikidata Dawid2009 ( talk) 20:10, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
Is it more vital than Snakes and Ladders or Ludo (board game)? which are not listed. Carl wev 19:26, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
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Seems an important topic we've missed. p b p 08:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)