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To save some space and to broaden RS coverage, I propose that we should merge all of the alternate names for sources in the checklist (e.g. "Game Captain" and "Gamecaptain") to retain only the official name. If problems arise with editors repeatedly adding in a misspelled or alternative name then a commented out note could be added to inform editors that the entry already exists under a different name. This issue might also be remedied simply by switching from the current largely computer-style numerical sort (where spaces and special/accented characters count as pre-"A" characters) to a true alphabetical sort (ignoring spaces) so that "Game Pro" would be followed by "GamePro" instead of being separated by "Game Quest", "Game Racer", "Game Stop", and "GameBrothers", etc. (hypothetical source names).
Secondly, I think it would be a good idea to merge the different language editions of most if not all sources. So, for example, rather than listing "GamesTM", "GamesTM (Belgium)", "GamesTM (Germany)" , "GamesTM (Netherlands)", and "GamesTM (UK)" all one after the other in the checklist, we would create a merged listing like so: "GameTM (Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA)". This should save on space and it seems like this is what we see in most cases already. There is a slight danger in making the presumption of equal reliability across different language editions of the same source, however I think the danger is slight and later discussions should provide a more nuanced view if it is warranted. Any cases where specific language editions meet a different standard of reliability can be easily dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
Would there be any objections to the proposed switch to true alphabetization? Would there be any objection to the proposed bloat-reducing merges? - Thibbs ( talk) 04:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Should we transclude the polish version of WP:VG/S? They mirror en.wiki's policies down to the page layout and subsection headers so presumably their RS determinations should be just as good as en.wiki's (if not better for Polish language sources). The only difference is that the number of sources they have listed is much fewer and they emphasize Polish sources. Currently the number of sources they list include:
I'd say that their RS websites and RS Books/Magazines should be ok for our purposes. Similarly, their non-RS sources should be non-RS here too. The members of PL.WP:VG would be the best judges of these sources and since they have an essentially identical RS policy as en.wiki, I think their views regarding reliability should be adopted by en.wiki as sound ones. The one place I think we should differ from pl.wiki's RS determination is for situational sources. Because these sources require careful analysis for proper use, knowledge of polish would presumably be an important requirement and I think it's too much to expect WP:VG editors to navigate these sites in Polish. I'd say that these sources should all be non-RS for WP:VG's purposes.
So what this boils down to is the greenlighting of 13 sources we have listed in the checklist, the redflagging of 11 sources we have listed in the checklist, and the possible addition of 9 new RSes. By transcluding the Polish determinations we are basically saying that
we will accept their RS determinations and will redflag their non-RS and Situational determinations. To me this makes very good sense. Are there any objections? - Thibbs ( talk) 20:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
While going through the sources in the checklist, I was rather zealous in linking related discussions which sometimes were discussions on other topics that only covered the source in question tangentially. Despite my zeal, there were a surprising number of sources that were listed for which I could not find the discussion leading to the consensus determination of reliability or non-reliability. These sources are marked as if a consensus has been reached, but I couldn't find any discussion in the normal places.
I suspect that these seemingly un-discussed sources have either actually been discussed in out-of-the-way places like individual article talk pages or even on user talk pages in the past, or that they have simply been used/excluded for ages and the reasons are so obvious that no specific discussion has actually taken place. For this reason I don't think it's necessary to start whole new discussions over these sources just to confirm what we already have listed in the checklist. Instead I'd like to apply WP:SILENCE to these and suggest that since there has been no objections to the current designations, then the current designations must be sound ones. We can link them all to this thread to show that the topic of their reliability was at least brought publicly up at one time, but unless there are any specific objections I say we should leave them as they are.
I am referring to the sources collapsed hereunder:
List of un-discussed RS/Situational/Non-RS designations |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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If there are any objections to leaving these designations in place as they have been for the last little while (several months or however long it's been) then please discuss them here. Otherwise by WP:SILENCE I think we can consider them properly designated. - Thibbs ( talk) 02:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
So, I wanted to establish/find consensus on this blog/website being unreliable now, before things pick up with Wii U news. (Which will certainly happen around E3, and then again around it's Q4 2012 launch.
This website post blatantly false information (at least as far as public information goes.) The biggest source of trouble is articles like this: http://wiiudaily.com/2012/03/grand-theft-auto-5-coming-to-wii-u-in-2013/ where they claim, as a fact, that GTA V is coming to the Wii U. This has not in fact, been confirmed, and if it did, we would know it, as it would set the internet on fire. It's just a rumor, and despite the fact that they do have a "rumor" tag they put on rumor articles, they didn't put it here.
Beyond that, it seemed like there was much information in some of their FAQs that seemed to confirm information about they system in general that really hadn't been confirmed yet. So anyways, right now it's just used here and there, but I wanted to establish it as unusable before it gets the chance to be used in a more widespread manner.
http://www.cadred.org/News/Article/176464/
Saw this one pop up as a new ref for CS:GO's release day. A search suggested it's in quite wide use on Wiki but mainly in regards to eSports. Looking for opinions on reliability as I have not encountered this before for general video game referencing. -- ferret ( talk) 17:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I've noticed I've been receiving the up-to-date issues for the past two years or so and haven't bothered to read them much. If you need anything in the recent issues to reference, lemme know. :) Salvidrim! 08:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
There is no mention of this site both in the reliable and unreliable sections, nor in the archives. So, I'm curious as to whether The Tanooki is considered an RS. To be honest, it looks pretty decent, but I'm not so sure... CyanGardevoir ( used EDIT! Its SUPER effective!) 07:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm trying to use a Destructoid review (by associate editor Jonathan Holmes) in my FAC for Cave Story. I was asked what Destructoid's editorial review process was. Does anyone happen to know? Right now, it's listed as a situational source. Also, quick second question, are interviews generally considered to be reliable? Axem Titanium ( talk) 19:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I haven't found much that discusses Destructoid's editorial process after a quick search, but certainly some of the references to Destructoid are usable. Taking a look at the article I can see several cases in the text where Destructoid is cited as a reference for its own opinions on the game (both in the review table as well as in the article's body). Destructoid is a notable game blog and I'm almost certain that they would be considered a reliable source for their own opinions. The article includes appropriate attribution for these refs ("Jonathan Holmes of Destructoid called Cave Story...", etc.) so I'd imagine that those refs (i.e. the ones covering the reception section) are fine. Reliability is more of a concern when a source refs facts rather than opinions. The Destructoid interview may be fine as a primary source as well. So the only sentence I see as potentially problematic is the claim made in the gameplay section (i.e. "The player progresses by jumping and navigating platform game puzzles and shooting enemies with the equipped weapon."). - Thibbs ( talk) 01:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I have been tinkering with the idea of updating the text of this page a little. First of all, the English word-choice isn't particularly wonderful (e.g. "None of the below is applicable to every single instance of it" wouldn't pass FA in my books). Secondly there seem to be several non sequiturs in the lede such as the discussion of the WP:VG Reference Library, the Google Custom Search Engines, and the tools like "LinkSearch" and "Crosswiki search" (the second of which is incidentally a deadlink). I think it would make things clearer and tidier if we were to include subsections on "Print Sources" (which would also cover the Reference Library) and "How to Locate Reliable Sources" (which could include the material on the GCSEs and the wikitools). Beyond this, I think some basic explanations for the current system would be very helpful to make the guideline more user-friendly and less alienating for new contributors who are referred here in the course of a content dispute.
Another subsection I think would be very helpful is a set of considerations for improving the score of coverage beyond the typical recently published web-based sources that make up the bulk of Wikipedia's video game coverage. Specifically, I think we should emphasize that a range of sources (diverse in content, date, nationality, and methodology) are beneficial to reduce POV.
I've crafted a proposal in my userspace, and I'm interested in some constructive criticism.
Please let me know which of these ideas sound good and which ones need work, and also let me know how they could be improved if at all. Thanks in advance, - Thibbs ( talk) 18:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, sounds good then. It's been 2 weeks and there have been no objections. The proposal is really just a modification to an existing guideline and it's essentially a clarificatory rather than a substantive change, so under WP:PGCHANGE I don't see any need to start an RfC. I've implemented the change now, but if there are any problems remaining with it we can still edit and tweak as necessary. Thanks for the feedback. - Thibbs ( talk) 22:29, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Reliable? Not? Any precedent here? I come across it here and there, but as far as I could see, I didn't see it categorized as anything here at WP:VG/D... Sergecross73 msg me 15:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
This section relates to the Diablo III Metacritic RS section above. In an effort to be fair, I'd like review for this source, http://www.ae-infinite.com/
It appears to be a blog, declares itself a fan site, and admits to having no formal staff structure, and no information on the staff beyond names. Ignoring the Metacritic address in the separate section, the source appears to be unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 15:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the links, I'll try to remember to look through those in the future as well. I consider this one done deal based on those. Unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 17:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
This section relates to the Diablo III Metacritic RS section above. In an effort to be fair, I'd like review for this source, http://www.cpugamer.com/
The site has a few bits of information. There is a list of staff, and also an explaination of their review scoring system. The mission statement is a generic "we aim to be the best at our niche of news". There is a blog post detailing the history of the site, which indicates it's formed around members of a TFC clan. The history is interesting but provides no details on review process or editorial structure. It expresses the owner's desire to basically be like IGN.
Slightly on the fence for this one but would appear to be unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 16:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
I have access to all the latest versions of these magazines from the library (could easily borrow some) and I'm just wondering if it classifies as reliable (it does have '"Official" in its name). The content is not biased at all if that helps. They do contain quite a lot of information... (Iadded some info to Pandora's Tower from this source and it seems fine) Cyan Gardevoir (used EDIT!) 05:08, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I would assume that, in order to have the same name legally, they'd need to be affiliated, and if they are affiliated, then they'd be reliable as well. Sergecross73 msg me 20:49, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Anyone have an opinion on DotMMO.com? It appears to be a relatively new "review" site (light on reviews, heavy on advertisements), no mention of editorial structure, no author credits, etc. At least one editor is adding a number of their articles as references (and removing other references, which is another matter altogether). Opinions? Wyatt Riot ( talk) 14:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I recently removed two statements that had been added to Diablo 3, that I deem as coming from unreliable sources in addition to being used to introduce bias (By prominent positioning heavy criticism in the 2nd sentence/paragraph of Reception). One was a site that describes itself as a blog and had no other usage on Wikipedia. The other had four usages on Wikipedia and describes itself as a former TFC clan that wanted to create gaming news. It had 4 uses on WP, including D3, and I removed D3 and one of the others (The other was a link to the game's "official trailer", I replaced it with the actual official Dev trailer). Ignoring for the moment the bias issue, the statements were added back with [ this diff] with the argument that Metacritic included them, and so they inherit reliable source status from Metacritic.
Looking for comments on this concept that a critic included in Metacritic becomes "Reliable". -- ferret ( talk)
The user posted his rationale for this at Talk:Diablo_III#My_latest_edit. I replied with my view that the section is introducing bias (A seperate issue) and a link to this section, indicating I would follow consensus established here. -- ferret ( talk) 14:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
As per my discussion on the diablo 3 page I have several issues with even using MetaCritic or GameRankings at all. It has come to my attention that CPUgamer is not considered a reliable source. Yet GameRankings uses it to calculate it's average. How can we use MetaCrtic (which uses CPUgamer to create its average too) or GameRankings when the sources for the average are not considered reliable? The whole is being taken as fact when the components are rejected. How can this be that we allow the whole to be used when the components are deemed flawed. This means we have to either parse through MetaCritic's reviews and decide which ones are valid and which ones are not and produce our own average (which would be even higher in the case of Diablo 3) or we must reject them as a reliable source. How can we claim these are reliable when the components are not? All I wish to show on the diablo 3 article for instance is that a score below 80% does exist from a professional review yet I am told CPU gamer is not reliable. Then how can the average from MetaCritic be considered reliable? Also for GameRankings they create averages with sources that are not accepted so how can we blindly accept the average? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 02:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Yay, a reasonable VG source discussion :) I'd echo Thibbs. As part of a whole these reviews are useful, but their individual weight is rightly marginal, and standard qualifiers for sourcing remain. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 13:39, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes but by this very same logic Thibbs, why can we not use user based score from metacritic. A sample of 6 500 registered users should be a large enough sample size to reduce bias and provide a somewhat accurate impression. We can conclude that some are probably to bash the game and some are probably overly cheery yet at the end of the day a sample size that large (larger than some sample sizes used to predict election outcomes in states even though it is a biased sample by virtue of having to register to create a score etc.) should provide a somewhat realistic impression of gamers view of the game. How can we use the critics average score with the logic that "some score are unreliable but as a whole the picture is accurate" yet when applied to user scores it is instantly dismissed as a "smear campaign" or some such nonsense. Why is are we allowed to eat our cake and have it too? We can use the whole but reject the parts it doesn't make any sense to me. Any academic paper or peer reviewed article can't just take samples or use bibliographical information if any of it is flawed at all. Why can't we use this same rigor for video games? If Pandora's box of unreliable sources has already been opened then it is completely dishonest to reject user scores especially based on such a large sample size. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 14:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Could you explain why you disagree with my line of reasoning? It simply does not make logical sense to be able to use Metacritic with biased and unreliable sources on the critics section if that very same logic is the reason we disallow the use of user scores. It simply does not make sense and I do not think we should be able to include those scores at all if we think that in the end of the day it creates a "somewhat" accurate impression of the game but reject thousands of user scores for the very same reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:26, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, nowhere in WP:RS does it say that it is okay to use a source when components of that source are deemed unreliable. I cannot publish a peer reviewed article with a data set from the Mad Hatter and then from StatsCan and say that because I used some from StatsCan and some from the Mad Hatter I still provide a "somewhat" accurate picture of the phenomenon. Ergo we should not use Metacritic or Gamerankings at all or we must move forward in getting CPUgamer deemed a reliable source which would make it eligible for inclusion in the Diablo 3 article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
But what about this article http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/07/05/blizzard-admits-diablo-iii-endgame-isnt-sustainable from a reliable source which points out that blizzard themselves are addressing just such a groundswell? Why is this not in the development section of the Diablo 3 article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
It is relevant in terms of how this article is not balanced to represent the views of people who are dissatisfied with the product. Metacritic user scores hint that there are issues with the game. Furthermore, blizzard themselves admit there are issues with the game. Yet everything on the diablo 3 article claims the game is flawless which is not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 16:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
At this point I agree that I do not think the vested interests here on wikipedia will allow any negative comments for this game. Its a complete white washing which isn't right. Also your profile is suspiciously simple. 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 17:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
This looks like an open and shut case to me, but it's used in about 12 articles so before I cleaned it out wanted to check here. Fairly new site, no staff or review process information that I could mind, and absolutely plastered in advertisements. Takes the form of a blog and appears to have a single editor. I see some evidence that it may just be copying articles from other sites as well. -- ferret ( talk) 02:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good to me then. I'll begin removing it a bit later, once I look up replacement RS's (If they're even needed) -- ferret ( talk) 13:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I see that Hardcore Gaming 101 (HG101) is listed here as situational, and looking back at the discussion leading to this determination it seems that Kung Fu Man discovered that the site is run by the established Gamasutra author, Kurt Kalata. For this reason the limitation justifying its situational use is that only HG101 articles by Kalata can be cited.
I am interested in using an article published at HG101 that was written by established gaming author, John Szczepaniak (previously published in Retro Gamer, Gamasutra, and The Escapist among others). Is it OK to assume that one can cite any HG101 article provided that it was authored by someone of similar caliber and credentials as Kalata? If so, I think we should tweak the limitation for the source under "Situational Sources" from this:
to something like this:
It's not a particularly elegant way to say what I mean, but I'm open to other suggestions. Is this a good idea? And what's the best way to express it? - Thibbs ( talk) 23:24, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Back on the topic of Hardcore Gaming 101, that's great if there are other recognised experts besides Kalata. I still think the site should be kept as a situational source though. Its submissions process is a step up from user generated content, but not up to our standards IMO. And I don't think we can use stuff by authors going only by the names of "Cack" or "Dingo". Anonymous or pseudonymous articles are fine if its a respected site with a staff editor and staff -or at least full-time pro- writers IMO, but here pretty sure Kalata is both the owner and head editor, which disqualifies it from being an RS in itself, I'd say. Also, there are other pseudonymous editors besides Kalata. I think if one went through all the writers probably only Kalata and Szczepaniak (who's listed as the UK editor) would be permissible. Also, regarding "reliable people" in general, by which I assume is meant recognised experts under WP:SPS, I think it might be better just to look for known blogs they have or sites like HCG101 where they're known to publish. Listing journalists just in case they might be found posing on a forum somewhere seems to me a bit much; otherwise, have at it... bridies ( talk) 06:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Add people who you think should be added or discussed as a "reliable" person. Journalists only; devs are inherently reliable about their own games. Also, only list people who publish in more than one place, especially if it's a source not already listed at VG/S.
hello,
perhaps add Video Game Blogger to this list. Regards.-- Kürbis ( ✔) 11:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm interested in some input on WP:VG's stance regarding "best evidence" (i.e. original publication sourcing). The specific circumstance that led to this question in the first place is video game related so I've cross-posted this here, but I'm really interested in a generalized view of this issue which could possibly lead to a tweak to the WP:VG/S guidelines to cover this situation. If you want to add to that conversation please post here. I'll post the conclusion here either way so we can discuss the potential guideline tweak. - Thibbs ( talk) 15:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay. Past discussions have brought nothing substantial about this, so here I go. Gaming Age is a video game-dedicated website that publishes news, reports and reviews of videogames. The website have been active since late-1990s and still is there. Reviews on the website are made by professional video game journalists, some of them who have moved to other websits lige 1Up.com, IGN and Gamespot. Additionaly, Metacritic includes the website when compiling their score of games. So, my question is, is Gaming Age reliable enough to be used on the Reception section? It could also be used on other sections of video game articles citing facts like release dates, previews, information about the development of games and such? Or is it completely unreliable? Thanks. — ΛΧΣ 21™ 17:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to come up with a way to cut down on the number of Spectrum refs in a few articles. Generally my feeling is that we should include all RS-based reception or as much as we can, but in these articles there seems to be overkill in terms of coverage of just this one version of the game. So I was wondering if anyone had any views about which Spectrum sources are the most industry-respected and notable. From the list of approved RSes, we find:
In addition to these, some of the other sources include:
Of these 9 sources above, are there 2 or 3 that really jump out as "must-include" sources if they are available? I've posted basically the same question at Thumperward's talk since he worked on the ZX Spectrum article quite a bit, but I'd appreciate any other thoughts if anyone is familiar with the system and its coverage. Thanks. - Thibbs ( talk) 17:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the help. - Thibbs ( talk) 13:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Your Spectrum is reliable, especially for early Spectrum stuff. It was relaunched in 1986 as Your Sinclair. Another one that is reliable is Sinclair Programs. It is a sister magazine of Sinclair User, and whilst its primary focus was programs that you type in yourself, it did have news sections and the odd interview. - X201 ( talk) 08:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add CheatCodes.com to the Reliable Sources list? They have a dedicated reviews section, editorial guidelines, decent Alexa rank, and verifiable authors. Monicabgalvarez ( talk) 00:28, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I was recently engaged in a series of conversations regarding whether or not the reception section of a video game article should only cover the original version of a game or whether it should cover later remakes as well. The result of these conversations was a community discussion at WT:VG where it was agreed that the reception section should cover remakes as well. I think this makes good sense and it seems to be directly in line with WP:VG/S's " Editorial discretion should promote broad coverage and reduce POV". As such I was thinking that it might be a good idea to expand that section by one bullet point so that this issue doesn't come up in the future again. Specifically, I was thinking of adding the following text:
Any thoughts? - Thibbs ( talk) 13:11, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
So, it looks like someone recently pointed out that there really wasn't as much of a consensus towards whether or not this website is reliable or not. So, I wanted to see if we could come to a more concrete agreement.
Thanks, Axem. Looking a bit at the source myself I can say that their age (from 1997 which is pretty old in internet time) indicates that they are stable and I can see that they have been cited by other RSes including RPGamer, NintendoWorldReport, VG247, as well as Joystiq and others. I haven't looked at the authors individually yet since the staff is so large, but this much is already a good sign. - Thibbs ( talk) 12:41, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Noticed a user adding this site as a reference to multiple articles today and wanted to run it by here. Might just be a promotional/spam spree. I don't see any real usage prior to August, and the site is in use on 27 articles when I searched just now: mmo-play.com -- ferret ( talk) 18:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Should PixlBit [7] be a considered reliable or situational source? Founded in 2009 and here is their history retrospect. They're about us page note that "Professional presentation and delivery is of paramount importance to both our writing and editing staff." They're policies page make put some good standards, especially in facts versus opinion. They're earliest reviews and (non press release) news seem to adhere to standards. There is not a lot of information on their staff, but founders used to write for Nintendo World Report and do PR work. The site isn't used a lot on Wikipedia, in fact only around 9 times in articles. I can't find any reliable sources quoting them, though n4g.com links to them a bunch of times. Neither Metacritic or Gamerankings use them. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 12:50, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Polygon has officially gone live; before it was a mix of video game stories among the rest of the coverage at The Verge (website), a general technology website, but they've now got their own site. [11]. The editing team includes a number of established vg journalists that left other sites to work on this. I think that this was discussed before when it was announced that the Verge was expanding VG coverage but now that Polygon's its own entity, it should be marked as reliable. -- MASEM ( t) 17:39, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Two sources today: Aurcade.com and Arcade-history.com. Arcade History was previously brought here, but garnered only one response. I'd like to get a couple people on each to determine a full consensus. My opinion is that neither are reliable for any information. Aurcade doesn't even have a contact link or email, has no list of editors, and no clear oversight. Arcade-History has a contact link, but no list of editors, no reputation for fact checking and accuracy, and all of its entries are apparently user submitted. MobyGames has people look over the entries, but I see no reason to believe in either case that the person looking over them is fact checking everything, and I do not believe arcade-history has a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 23:23, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to update the sources page to merge the checklist with the tables, and get rid of all the sites which have not been discussed on the checklist. I'd also like to expand the tables to include a column for links to relevant discussions about the source. I'm asking here because I don't really know the history of why there is a checklist and tables. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 03:52, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
Can this site be added to the list? It seems semi-official for the extended LucasArts family of companies, employees, and spin-offs. — Torchiest talk edits 17:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Find video game sources:
"Games.com" –
news ·
books ·
scholar ·
images –
VGRS ·
WPVG Talk ·
LinkSearch ·
CrossWiki ·
LinkTo
AOL recently relaunched Games.com. The site has an impressive
staff page, and has received
a lot of press. The Games.com website is a platform for publishing games, but their
blog site is kept separate and has many news stories unrelated to their publishing platform, but with a focus on mobile gaming. The most recent article on the site, "
The Simpsons spoofs Zynga once again with 'VillageVille' for 'MyPad'", doesn't appear to exhibit any signs of COI, and was written by
Joe Osborne who has previously worked for PCMag.com. The site has some
interesting editorials as well. The only thing I find unsavory is the "Play X on Facebook" buttons, but they aren't coded with affiliate tags or anything so I think they might just be evidence of a trend towards quick access to mobile gaming. Other authors
Beau Hindman worked for AOL/Joystiq's Massively,
some
people from GameZone. I think it is reliable, and I'd like to add it to the sources list as there aren't many good, reliable sources for facebook/mobile gaming. --
Odie5533 (
talk) 19:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Is Jeux Video (in French) a reliable source? I was thinking of using this review in an article, but I'm not sure the site is reliable. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 11:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
This and many of its articles are pretty decent. Should it be considered a reliable source? Thanks, Satellizer talk contribs 22:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
I've mainly been using any source I find reliable in an article rather than clogging up this board, but I think it might be worth adding a few to the list:
-- Odie5533 ( talk) 14:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Could Gameranx be a possible reliable source? Thank you, Satellizer talk contribs 22:59, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I *think* this site should be considered okay. They have a full editorial staff, and the key sentence of their "about us" page is "Though we hope to grow over time, we will always keep our ideals about transparency and proper fact-checking." Can we get consensus to include them? — Torchiest talk edits 22:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Official console mags shortened this way: [15] so they stop f-up the aggregator lines like here: [16] -- Niemti ( talk) 17:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Two more:
I'm not that sure whether these two could be considered reliable, but proposing them here anyway. Thanks. :) ~ satellizer ~ ~ talk ~ 07:52, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to look at adding Behind the Voice Actors as a usable source for voice acting in games in the guideline, at least under certain conditions. I contacted them directly, and they do not use user-submitted information like IMDb, they use the credits, sourced info like ourselves or directly contact the actor/their representative. Images with a green tick are confirmed, as explained in this e-mail conversation I had with them:
I think they're a reliable site and while I think a lot of the unticked information is solid and not contested and could be used for a regular or Good Article, the ticks are checked and often, as I've found with some games, this site is the only place to cover cast fully and without user editing being involved, so I'd like to officially enshrine it in the project references. And thanks to Axem Titanium for pointing me here, forgot about the topic and didn't notice his reply until it was in the archives. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 20:15, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "TechnoBuffalo" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
Never heard of it before but it looks decent to me. Thoughts? It's already used as a source on some tech-related articles like Tizen, History of the Dreamcast, The Last Story, OS X Mountain Lion, and Network operations center. -- Atlantima ( talk) 04:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I also found a post about their editorial process: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2012/04/13/behind-the-scenes-of-technobuffalo-how-we-handle-leaks/. "All posts on TechnoBuffalo follow a similar journalistic method as what is outlined here for leaked information." -- Atlantima ( talk) 03:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Is Esperino a possible reliable/situational source? ~ satellizer ~ ~ talk ~ 09:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
To save some space and to broaden RS coverage, I propose that we should merge all of the alternate names for sources in the checklist (e.g. "Game Captain" and "Gamecaptain") to retain only the official name. If problems arise with editors repeatedly adding in a misspelled or alternative name then a commented out note could be added to inform editors that the entry already exists under a different name. This issue might also be remedied simply by switching from the current largely computer-style numerical sort (where spaces and special/accented characters count as pre-"A" characters) to a true alphabetical sort (ignoring spaces) so that "Game Pro" would be followed by "GamePro" instead of being separated by "Game Quest", "Game Racer", "Game Stop", and "GameBrothers", etc. (hypothetical source names).
Secondly, I think it would be a good idea to merge the different language editions of most if not all sources. So, for example, rather than listing "GamesTM", "GamesTM (Belgium)", "GamesTM (Germany)" , "GamesTM (Netherlands)", and "GamesTM (UK)" all one after the other in the checklist, we would create a merged listing like so: "GameTM (Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA)". This should save on space and it seems like this is what we see in most cases already. There is a slight danger in making the presumption of equal reliability across different language editions of the same source, however I think the danger is slight and later discussions should provide a more nuanced view if it is warranted. Any cases where specific language editions meet a different standard of reliability can be easily dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
Would there be any objections to the proposed switch to true alphabetization? Would there be any objection to the proposed bloat-reducing merges? - Thibbs ( talk) 04:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Should we transclude the polish version of WP:VG/S? They mirror en.wiki's policies down to the page layout and subsection headers so presumably their RS determinations should be just as good as en.wiki's (if not better for Polish language sources). The only difference is that the number of sources they have listed is much fewer and they emphasize Polish sources. Currently the number of sources they list include:
I'd say that their RS websites and RS Books/Magazines should be ok for our purposes. Similarly, their non-RS sources should be non-RS here too. The members of PL.WP:VG would be the best judges of these sources and since they have an essentially identical RS policy as en.wiki, I think their views regarding reliability should be adopted by en.wiki as sound ones. The one place I think we should differ from pl.wiki's RS determination is for situational sources. Because these sources require careful analysis for proper use, knowledge of polish would presumably be an important requirement and I think it's too much to expect WP:VG editors to navigate these sites in Polish. I'd say that these sources should all be non-RS for WP:VG's purposes.
So what this boils down to is the greenlighting of 13 sources we have listed in the checklist, the redflagging of 11 sources we have listed in the checklist, and the possible addition of 9 new RSes. By transcluding the Polish determinations we are basically saying that
we will accept their RS determinations and will redflag their non-RS and Situational determinations. To me this makes very good sense. Are there any objections? - Thibbs ( talk) 20:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
While going through the sources in the checklist, I was rather zealous in linking related discussions which sometimes were discussions on other topics that only covered the source in question tangentially. Despite my zeal, there were a surprising number of sources that were listed for which I could not find the discussion leading to the consensus determination of reliability or non-reliability. These sources are marked as if a consensus has been reached, but I couldn't find any discussion in the normal places.
I suspect that these seemingly un-discussed sources have either actually been discussed in out-of-the-way places like individual article talk pages or even on user talk pages in the past, or that they have simply been used/excluded for ages and the reasons are so obvious that no specific discussion has actually taken place. For this reason I don't think it's necessary to start whole new discussions over these sources just to confirm what we already have listed in the checklist. Instead I'd like to apply WP:SILENCE to these and suggest that since there has been no objections to the current designations, then the current designations must be sound ones. We can link them all to this thread to show that the topic of their reliability was at least brought publicly up at one time, but unless there are any specific objections I say we should leave them as they are.
I am referring to the sources collapsed hereunder:
List of un-discussed RS/Situational/Non-RS designations |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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If there are any objections to leaving these designations in place as they have been for the last little while (several months or however long it's been) then please discuss them here. Otherwise by WP:SILENCE I think we can consider them properly designated. - Thibbs ( talk) 02:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
So, I wanted to establish/find consensus on this blog/website being unreliable now, before things pick up with Wii U news. (Which will certainly happen around E3, and then again around it's Q4 2012 launch.
This website post blatantly false information (at least as far as public information goes.) The biggest source of trouble is articles like this: http://wiiudaily.com/2012/03/grand-theft-auto-5-coming-to-wii-u-in-2013/ where they claim, as a fact, that GTA V is coming to the Wii U. This has not in fact, been confirmed, and if it did, we would know it, as it would set the internet on fire. It's just a rumor, and despite the fact that they do have a "rumor" tag they put on rumor articles, they didn't put it here.
Beyond that, it seemed like there was much information in some of their FAQs that seemed to confirm information about they system in general that really hadn't been confirmed yet. So anyways, right now it's just used here and there, but I wanted to establish it as unusable before it gets the chance to be used in a more widespread manner.
http://www.cadred.org/News/Article/176464/
Saw this one pop up as a new ref for CS:GO's release day. A search suggested it's in quite wide use on Wiki but mainly in regards to eSports. Looking for opinions on reliability as I have not encountered this before for general video game referencing. -- ferret ( talk) 17:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I've noticed I've been receiving the up-to-date issues for the past two years or so and haven't bothered to read them much. If you need anything in the recent issues to reference, lemme know. :) Salvidrim! 08:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
There is no mention of this site both in the reliable and unreliable sections, nor in the archives. So, I'm curious as to whether The Tanooki is considered an RS. To be honest, it looks pretty decent, but I'm not so sure... CyanGardevoir ( used EDIT! Its SUPER effective!) 07:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm trying to use a Destructoid review (by associate editor Jonathan Holmes) in my FAC for Cave Story. I was asked what Destructoid's editorial review process was. Does anyone happen to know? Right now, it's listed as a situational source. Also, quick second question, are interviews generally considered to be reliable? Axem Titanium ( talk) 19:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I haven't found much that discusses Destructoid's editorial process after a quick search, but certainly some of the references to Destructoid are usable. Taking a look at the article I can see several cases in the text where Destructoid is cited as a reference for its own opinions on the game (both in the review table as well as in the article's body). Destructoid is a notable game blog and I'm almost certain that they would be considered a reliable source for their own opinions. The article includes appropriate attribution for these refs ("Jonathan Holmes of Destructoid called Cave Story...", etc.) so I'd imagine that those refs (i.e. the ones covering the reception section) are fine. Reliability is more of a concern when a source refs facts rather than opinions. The Destructoid interview may be fine as a primary source as well. So the only sentence I see as potentially problematic is the claim made in the gameplay section (i.e. "The player progresses by jumping and navigating platform game puzzles and shooting enemies with the equipped weapon."). - Thibbs ( talk) 01:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I have been tinkering with the idea of updating the text of this page a little. First of all, the English word-choice isn't particularly wonderful (e.g. "None of the below is applicable to every single instance of it" wouldn't pass FA in my books). Secondly there seem to be several non sequiturs in the lede such as the discussion of the WP:VG Reference Library, the Google Custom Search Engines, and the tools like "LinkSearch" and "Crosswiki search" (the second of which is incidentally a deadlink). I think it would make things clearer and tidier if we were to include subsections on "Print Sources" (which would also cover the Reference Library) and "How to Locate Reliable Sources" (which could include the material on the GCSEs and the wikitools). Beyond this, I think some basic explanations for the current system would be very helpful to make the guideline more user-friendly and less alienating for new contributors who are referred here in the course of a content dispute.
Another subsection I think would be very helpful is a set of considerations for improving the score of coverage beyond the typical recently published web-based sources that make up the bulk of Wikipedia's video game coverage. Specifically, I think we should emphasize that a range of sources (diverse in content, date, nationality, and methodology) are beneficial to reduce POV.
I've crafted a proposal in my userspace, and I'm interested in some constructive criticism.
Please let me know which of these ideas sound good and which ones need work, and also let me know how they could be improved if at all. Thanks in advance, - Thibbs ( talk) 18:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, sounds good then. It's been 2 weeks and there have been no objections. The proposal is really just a modification to an existing guideline and it's essentially a clarificatory rather than a substantive change, so under WP:PGCHANGE I don't see any need to start an RfC. I've implemented the change now, but if there are any problems remaining with it we can still edit and tweak as necessary. Thanks for the feedback. - Thibbs ( talk) 22:29, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Reliable? Not? Any precedent here? I come across it here and there, but as far as I could see, I didn't see it categorized as anything here at WP:VG/D... Sergecross73 msg me 15:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
This section relates to the Diablo III Metacritic RS section above. In an effort to be fair, I'd like review for this source, http://www.ae-infinite.com/
It appears to be a blog, declares itself a fan site, and admits to having no formal staff structure, and no information on the staff beyond names. Ignoring the Metacritic address in the separate section, the source appears to be unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 15:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the links, I'll try to remember to look through those in the future as well. I consider this one done deal based on those. Unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 17:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
This section relates to the Diablo III Metacritic RS section above. In an effort to be fair, I'd like review for this source, http://www.cpugamer.com/
The site has a few bits of information. There is a list of staff, and also an explaination of their review scoring system. The mission statement is a generic "we aim to be the best at our niche of news". There is a blog post detailing the history of the site, which indicates it's formed around members of a TFC clan. The history is interesting but provides no details on review process or editorial structure. It expresses the owner's desire to basically be like IGN.
Slightly on the fence for this one but would appear to be unreliable. -- ferret ( talk) 16:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
I have access to all the latest versions of these magazines from the library (could easily borrow some) and I'm just wondering if it classifies as reliable (it does have '"Official" in its name). The content is not biased at all if that helps. They do contain quite a lot of information... (Iadded some info to Pandora's Tower from this source and it seems fine) Cyan Gardevoir (used EDIT!) 05:08, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I would assume that, in order to have the same name legally, they'd need to be affiliated, and if they are affiliated, then they'd be reliable as well. Sergecross73 msg me 20:49, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Anyone have an opinion on DotMMO.com? It appears to be a relatively new "review" site (light on reviews, heavy on advertisements), no mention of editorial structure, no author credits, etc. At least one editor is adding a number of their articles as references (and removing other references, which is another matter altogether). Opinions? Wyatt Riot ( talk) 14:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I recently removed two statements that had been added to Diablo 3, that I deem as coming from unreliable sources in addition to being used to introduce bias (By prominent positioning heavy criticism in the 2nd sentence/paragraph of Reception). One was a site that describes itself as a blog and had no other usage on Wikipedia. The other had four usages on Wikipedia and describes itself as a former TFC clan that wanted to create gaming news. It had 4 uses on WP, including D3, and I removed D3 and one of the others (The other was a link to the game's "official trailer", I replaced it with the actual official Dev trailer). Ignoring for the moment the bias issue, the statements were added back with [ this diff] with the argument that Metacritic included them, and so they inherit reliable source status from Metacritic.
Looking for comments on this concept that a critic included in Metacritic becomes "Reliable". -- ferret ( talk)
The user posted his rationale for this at Talk:Diablo_III#My_latest_edit. I replied with my view that the section is introducing bias (A seperate issue) and a link to this section, indicating I would follow consensus established here. -- ferret ( talk) 14:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
As per my discussion on the diablo 3 page I have several issues with even using MetaCritic or GameRankings at all. It has come to my attention that CPUgamer is not considered a reliable source. Yet GameRankings uses it to calculate it's average. How can we use MetaCrtic (which uses CPUgamer to create its average too) or GameRankings when the sources for the average are not considered reliable? The whole is being taken as fact when the components are rejected. How can this be that we allow the whole to be used when the components are deemed flawed. This means we have to either parse through MetaCritic's reviews and decide which ones are valid and which ones are not and produce our own average (which would be even higher in the case of Diablo 3) or we must reject them as a reliable source. How can we claim these are reliable when the components are not? All I wish to show on the diablo 3 article for instance is that a score below 80% does exist from a professional review yet I am told CPU gamer is not reliable. Then how can the average from MetaCritic be considered reliable? Also for GameRankings they create averages with sources that are not accepted so how can we blindly accept the average? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 02:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Yay, a reasonable VG source discussion :) I'd echo Thibbs. As part of a whole these reviews are useful, but their individual weight is rightly marginal, and standard qualifiers for sourcing remain. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 13:39, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes but by this very same logic Thibbs, why can we not use user based score from metacritic. A sample of 6 500 registered users should be a large enough sample size to reduce bias and provide a somewhat accurate impression. We can conclude that some are probably to bash the game and some are probably overly cheery yet at the end of the day a sample size that large (larger than some sample sizes used to predict election outcomes in states even though it is a biased sample by virtue of having to register to create a score etc.) should provide a somewhat realistic impression of gamers view of the game. How can we use the critics average score with the logic that "some score are unreliable but as a whole the picture is accurate" yet when applied to user scores it is instantly dismissed as a "smear campaign" or some such nonsense. Why is are we allowed to eat our cake and have it too? We can use the whole but reject the parts it doesn't make any sense to me. Any academic paper or peer reviewed article can't just take samples or use bibliographical information if any of it is flawed at all. Why can't we use this same rigor for video games? If Pandora's box of unreliable sources has already been opened then it is completely dishonest to reject user scores especially based on such a large sample size. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 14:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Could you explain why you disagree with my line of reasoning? It simply does not make logical sense to be able to use Metacritic with biased and unreliable sources on the critics section if that very same logic is the reason we disallow the use of user scores. It simply does not make sense and I do not think we should be able to include those scores at all if we think that in the end of the day it creates a "somewhat" accurate impression of the game but reject thousands of user scores for the very same reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:26, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, nowhere in WP:RS does it say that it is okay to use a source when components of that source are deemed unreliable. I cannot publish a peer reviewed article with a data set from the Mad Hatter and then from StatsCan and say that because I used some from StatsCan and some from the Mad Hatter I still provide a "somewhat" accurate picture of the phenomenon. Ergo we should not use Metacritic or Gamerankings at all or we must move forward in getting CPUgamer deemed a reliable source which would make it eligible for inclusion in the Diablo 3 article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
But what about this article http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/07/05/blizzard-admits-diablo-iii-endgame-isnt-sustainable from a reliable source which points out that blizzard themselves are addressing just such a groundswell? Why is this not in the development section of the Diablo 3 article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 15:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
It is relevant in terms of how this article is not balanced to represent the views of people who are dissatisfied with the product. Metacritic user scores hint that there are issues with the game. Furthermore, blizzard themselves admit there are issues with the game. Yet everything on the diablo 3 article claims the game is flawless which is not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 16:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
At this point I agree that I do not think the vested interests here on wikipedia will allow any negative comments for this game. Its a complete white washing which isn't right. Also your profile is suspiciously simple. 24.71.156.206 ( talk) 17:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
This looks like an open and shut case to me, but it's used in about 12 articles so before I cleaned it out wanted to check here. Fairly new site, no staff or review process information that I could mind, and absolutely plastered in advertisements. Takes the form of a blog and appears to have a single editor. I see some evidence that it may just be copying articles from other sites as well. -- ferret ( talk) 02:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good to me then. I'll begin removing it a bit later, once I look up replacement RS's (If they're even needed) -- ferret ( talk) 13:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I see that Hardcore Gaming 101 (HG101) is listed here as situational, and looking back at the discussion leading to this determination it seems that Kung Fu Man discovered that the site is run by the established Gamasutra author, Kurt Kalata. For this reason the limitation justifying its situational use is that only HG101 articles by Kalata can be cited.
I am interested in using an article published at HG101 that was written by established gaming author, John Szczepaniak (previously published in Retro Gamer, Gamasutra, and The Escapist among others). Is it OK to assume that one can cite any HG101 article provided that it was authored by someone of similar caliber and credentials as Kalata? If so, I think we should tweak the limitation for the source under "Situational Sources" from this:
to something like this:
It's not a particularly elegant way to say what I mean, but I'm open to other suggestions. Is this a good idea? And what's the best way to express it? - Thibbs ( talk) 23:24, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Back on the topic of Hardcore Gaming 101, that's great if there are other recognised experts besides Kalata. I still think the site should be kept as a situational source though. Its submissions process is a step up from user generated content, but not up to our standards IMO. And I don't think we can use stuff by authors going only by the names of "Cack" or "Dingo". Anonymous or pseudonymous articles are fine if its a respected site with a staff editor and staff -or at least full-time pro- writers IMO, but here pretty sure Kalata is both the owner and head editor, which disqualifies it from being an RS in itself, I'd say. Also, there are other pseudonymous editors besides Kalata. I think if one went through all the writers probably only Kalata and Szczepaniak (who's listed as the UK editor) would be permissible. Also, regarding "reliable people" in general, by which I assume is meant recognised experts under WP:SPS, I think it might be better just to look for known blogs they have or sites like HCG101 where they're known to publish. Listing journalists just in case they might be found posing on a forum somewhere seems to me a bit much; otherwise, have at it... bridies ( talk) 06:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Add people who you think should be added or discussed as a "reliable" person. Journalists only; devs are inherently reliable about their own games. Also, only list people who publish in more than one place, especially if it's a source not already listed at VG/S.
hello,
perhaps add Video Game Blogger to this list. Regards.-- Kürbis ( ✔) 11:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm interested in some input on WP:VG's stance regarding "best evidence" (i.e. original publication sourcing). The specific circumstance that led to this question in the first place is video game related so I've cross-posted this here, but I'm really interested in a generalized view of this issue which could possibly lead to a tweak to the WP:VG/S guidelines to cover this situation. If you want to add to that conversation please post here. I'll post the conclusion here either way so we can discuss the potential guideline tweak. - Thibbs ( talk) 15:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay. Past discussions have brought nothing substantial about this, so here I go. Gaming Age is a video game-dedicated website that publishes news, reports and reviews of videogames. The website have been active since late-1990s and still is there. Reviews on the website are made by professional video game journalists, some of them who have moved to other websits lige 1Up.com, IGN and Gamespot. Additionaly, Metacritic includes the website when compiling their score of games. So, my question is, is Gaming Age reliable enough to be used on the Reception section? It could also be used on other sections of video game articles citing facts like release dates, previews, information about the development of games and such? Or is it completely unreliable? Thanks. — ΛΧΣ 21™ 17:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to come up with a way to cut down on the number of Spectrum refs in a few articles. Generally my feeling is that we should include all RS-based reception or as much as we can, but in these articles there seems to be overkill in terms of coverage of just this one version of the game. So I was wondering if anyone had any views about which Spectrum sources are the most industry-respected and notable. From the list of approved RSes, we find:
In addition to these, some of the other sources include:
Of these 9 sources above, are there 2 or 3 that really jump out as "must-include" sources if they are available? I've posted basically the same question at Thumperward's talk since he worked on the ZX Spectrum article quite a bit, but I'd appreciate any other thoughts if anyone is familiar with the system and its coverage. Thanks. - Thibbs ( talk) 17:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the help. - Thibbs ( talk) 13:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Your Spectrum is reliable, especially for early Spectrum stuff. It was relaunched in 1986 as Your Sinclair. Another one that is reliable is Sinclair Programs. It is a sister magazine of Sinclair User, and whilst its primary focus was programs that you type in yourself, it did have news sections and the odd interview. - X201 ( talk) 08:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add CheatCodes.com to the Reliable Sources list? They have a dedicated reviews section, editorial guidelines, decent Alexa rank, and verifiable authors. Monicabgalvarez ( talk) 00:28, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I was recently engaged in a series of conversations regarding whether or not the reception section of a video game article should only cover the original version of a game or whether it should cover later remakes as well. The result of these conversations was a community discussion at WT:VG where it was agreed that the reception section should cover remakes as well. I think this makes good sense and it seems to be directly in line with WP:VG/S's " Editorial discretion should promote broad coverage and reduce POV". As such I was thinking that it might be a good idea to expand that section by one bullet point so that this issue doesn't come up in the future again. Specifically, I was thinking of adding the following text:
Any thoughts? - Thibbs ( talk) 13:11, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
So, it looks like someone recently pointed out that there really wasn't as much of a consensus towards whether or not this website is reliable or not. So, I wanted to see if we could come to a more concrete agreement.
Thanks, Axem. Looking a bit at the source myself I can say that their age (from 1997 which is pretty old in internet time) indicates that they are stable and I can see that they have been cited by other RSes including RPGamer, NintendoWorldReport, VG247, as well as Joystiq and others. I haven't looked at the authors individually yet since the staff is so large, but this much is already a good sign. - Thibbs ( talk) 12:41, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Noticed a user adding this site as a reference to multiple articles today and wanted to run it by here. Might just be a promotional/spam spree. I don't see any real usage prior to August, and the site is in use on 27 articles when I searched just now: mmo-play.com -- ferret ( talk) 18:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Should PixlBit [7] be a considered reliable or situational source? Founded in 2009 and here is their history retrospect. They're about us page note that "Professional presentation and delivery is of paramount importance to both our writing and editing staff." They're policies page make put some good standards, especially in facts versus opinion. They're earliest reviews and (non press release) news seem to adhere to standards. There is not a lot of information on their staff, but founders used to write for Nintendo World Report and do PR work. The site isn't used a lot on Wikipedia, in fact only around 9 times in articles. I can't find any reliable sources quoting them, though n4g.com links to them a bunch of times. Neither Metacritic or Gamerankings use them. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 12:50, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Polygon has officially gone live; before it was a mix of video game stories among the rest of the coverage at The Verge (website), a general technology website, but they've now got their own site. [11]. The editing team includes a number of established vg journalists that left other sites to work on this. I think that this was discussed before when it was announced that the Verge was expanding VG coverage but now that Polygon's its own entity, it should be marked as reliable. -- MASEM ( t) 17:39, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Two sources today: Aurcade.com and Arcade-history.com. Arcade History was previously brought here, but garnered only one response. I'd like to get a couple people on each to determine a full consensus. My opinion is that neither are reliable for any information. Aurcade doesn't even have a contact link or email, has no list of editors, and no clear oversight. Arcade-History has a contact link, but no list of editors, no reputation for fact checking and accuracy, and all of its entries are apparently user submitted. MobyGames has people look over the entries, but I see no reason to believe in either case that the person looking over them is fact checking everything, and I do not believe arcade-history has a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 23:23, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to update the sources page to merge the checklist with the tables, and get rid of all the sites which have not been discussed on the checklist. I'd also like to expand the tables to include a column for links to relevant discussions about the source. I'm asking here because I don't really know the history of why there is a checklist and tables. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 03:52, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
Can this site be added to the list? It seems semi-official for the extended LucasArts family of companies, employees, and spin-offs. — Torchiest talk edits 17:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Find video game sources:
"Games.com" –
news ·
books ·
scholar ·
images –
VGRS ·
WPVG Talk ·
LinkSearch ·
CrossWiki ·
LinkTo
AOL recently relaunched Games.com. The site has an impressive
staff page, and has received
a lot of press. The Games.com website is a platform for publishing games, but their
blog site is kept separate and has many news stories unrelated to their publishing platform, but with a focus on mobile gaming. The most recent article on the site, "
The Simpsons spoofs Zynga once again with 'VillageVille' for 'MyPad'", doesn't appear to exhibit any signs of COI, and was written by
Joe Osborne who has previously worked for PCMag.com. The site has some
interesting editorials as well. The only thing I find unsavory is the "Play X on Facebook" buttons, but they aren't coded with affiliate tags or anything so I think they might just be evidence of a trend towards quick access to mobile gaming. Other authors
Beau Hindman worked for AOL/Joystiq's Massively,
some
people from GameZone. I think it is reliable, and I'd like to add it to the sources list as there aren't many good, reliable sources for facebook/mobile gaming. --
Odie5533 (
talk) 19:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Is Jeux Video (in French) a reliable source? I was thinking of using this review in an article, but I'm not sure the site is reliable. -- Odie5533 ( talk) 11:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
This and many of its articles are pretty decent. Should it be considered a reliable source? Thanks, Satellizer talk contribs 22:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
I've mainly been using any source I find reliable in an article rather than clogging up this board, but I think it might be worth adding a few to the list:
-- Odie5533 ( talk) 14:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Could Gameranx be a possible reliable source? Thank you, Satellizer talk contribs 22:59, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I *think* this site should be considered okay. They have a full editorial staff, and the key sentence of their "about us" page is "Though we hope to grow over time, we will always keep our ideals about transparency and proper fact-checking." Can we get consensus to include them? — Torchiest talk edits 22:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Official console mags shortened this way: [15] so they stop f-up the aggregator lines like here: [16] -- Niemti ( talk) 17:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Two more:
I'm not that sure whether these two could be considered reliable, but proposing them here anyway. Thanks. :) ~ satellizer ~ ~ talk ~ 07:52, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to look at adding Behind the Voice Actors as a usable source for voice acting in games in the guideline, at least under certain conditions. I contacted them directly, and they do not use user-submitted information like IMDb, they use the credits, sourced info like ourselves or directly contact the actor/their representative. Images with a green tick are confirmed, as explained in this e-mail conversation I had with them:
I think they're a reliable site and while I think a lot of the unticked information is solid and not contested and could be used for a regular or Good Article, the ticks are checked and often, as I've found with some games, this site is the only place to cover cast fully and without user editing being involved, so I'd like to officially enshrine it in the project references. And thanks to Axem Titanium for pointing me here, forgot about the topic and didn't notice his reply until it was in the archives. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 20:15, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "TechnoBuffalo" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
Never heard of it before but it looks decent to me. Thoughts? It's already used as a source on some tech-related articles like Tizen, History of the Dreamcast, The Last Story, OS X Mountain Lion, and Network operations center. -- Atlantima ( talk) 04:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I also found a post about their editorial process: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2012/04/13/behind-the-scenes-of-technobuffalo-how-we-handle-leaks/. "All posts on TechnoBuffalo follow a similar journalistic method as what is outlined here for leaked information." -- Atlantima ( talk) 03:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Is Esperino a possible reliable/situational source? ~ satellizer ~ ~ talk ~ 09:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)