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Find video game sources: "Strategy Informer" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Proposing this be a situational source. Seems to have been around since 2000, and the quality of writing seems up to snuff. Here is the "About Us" page. I'd say given the quality of writing and the years under its belt that I'd at least throw this into a situational, if not reliable status. It's independent of any media network, but I don't think that comes into play. I'm mostly interested in their reviews, as they review the occasional indie game and/or DLC, and frankly sources for these games are hard to come by. I just feel like it's time to apply WP:SOURCES in the best way we can for indie games. We can't always rely on the IGNs and GameSpots of this world. Frankly indie games often receive more coverage at indie sites. Reviews, interviews, and often some previews don't make it to the "big sites". I'm not saying that an article can stay afloat merely by a handful of situational indie sources - it has to have some mainstream coverage. What I am saying is that in order to properly write some of these articles additional sources which cover the subject matter in-depth art needed.
Yeah - long post for a short request. I just want to be sure we don't pull the old "they don't belong to a media company, so they aren't reliable" stand-by we sometimes use. I'll be nominating other indie sites in the future, so I want us to broaden our mindset while still staying in policy. -- Teancum ( talk) 09:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Some editors are wanting to use http://gamehall.uol.com.br/site/a-historia-do-mega-drive/ at Mega Drive, History of video game consoles (fourth generation), Console wars, and List of best-selling game consoles as a source for sales of the Mega Drive by TecToy and Majesco. It seems to me like a fansite or blog site that got together some bloggers/gamers and dubbed them "editors".
Note a discussion of the larger issue of whether what they're doing with that source is or is not WP:SYN has been started at WP:ORN#Mega Drive/Genesis sales, feel free to comment there too. Thanks. Anomie ⚔ 16:56, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
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I want to propose that Kotaku be promoted from situational source to reliable source. Its been 3 years since Kotaku, has been added as a situational source and alot has changed. The blog was name by CNET in its top 100 blog as well as top 100 in the Technorati's Top 100. CNET Top 100 [2] The site is still headed by Brian Crecente who has appeared on Fox News as stated on the page. Since then there has been a new Deputy Editor on the site, Stephen Totilo, who has worked with MTV Networks on video games, written articles for IGN, New York Times, Newsweek among others. [3] Brian Ashcraft, senior editor, has written and published a book on video game arcades in Japan in 2008. [4] Michael McWhertor, reviews editor, was asked by SCE to appear on the second season their reality series, The Tester. As well as a guest on Gametrailers TV. [5] Michel Fahey was the head-writer for videogamers.com, a video gaming site in the 1990s and had covered numerous E3 events during his time. videogamers.com also had other notable staff such as James Stevenson who is now a community manager for Insomniac Games. [6]
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The PlayStation Blog is increasingly becoming, a popular source especially for PlayStation-related games or articles. This is due to the increasing number of 3rd-party studio interviews being conducted on the site. The blog is published by Sony Computer Entertainment which makes it reliable, though some may argue that it is not neutral but neutrality is not required under WP:SOURCE. Secondly, articles should be judged from the author of the article rather than the publisher. Since majority of the articles are written by actual staff of third-party studios, they should be considered as qualified authors. E.g. [7] [8] Also the PS Blog is more like a news blog rather than a personal blog, publishing only gaming related articles and no geek stuff etc. So its acceptable under WP:NEWSBLOG. In addition, in recent times there have been alot of interviews or announcements that have been released first on the PS Blog, thus it is starting to become a strong source of information regarding gaming. So I propose that it be shifted from a situational source to a reliable source under platform-specific. KiasuKiasiMan 14:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "Coming Soon Magazine" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
I thought I would ping the project on the suitability of "Coming Soon Magazine" as a reliable source. I was thinking of using one of their reviews in a Wikipedia article but noticed they have not yet been rated.
On the CSM website it says CSM started in 1993-1994 distributing over BBSes and incorporated in Vermont in 1996. Based on the content of the site it looks like they stopped writing reviews sometime in 1997, although there are a few "2000" dates on their site too.
CSM is used as a reference in several Wikipedia articles, including Master_of_Magic, Warcraft:_Orcs_&_Humans, and Age_of_Empires_(video_game). They have been used as links or references in a few places on the net, such as MobyGames and StarWarsLinks.com, but I'm not sure those are terribly reputable. According to google they have also been used as a reference in a few books (see google books link above) It doesn't look like CSM was ever distributed in print.
The quality of reviews seems to vary with the author - some reviews are concise and well-written; others have poor grammar and drone on without saying much.
Anyway, I am not looking to undermine existing articles, but to see what everyone thinks. Cheers. -- Culix ( talk) 19:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
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The Electric Playground and Reviews on the Run are related broadcast television programs airing in Canada, with the former also becoming available in United States and Australia. Aired episodes are accessible on their website. No viewer or reader generated content is apparently available on the web sites. It may be similar to X-Play. A user has suggested that Reviews on the Run is a not a reliable source. Where should these shows go on the list of sources? I can't find many third party references to them. Shawnc ( talk) 13:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "ZTGameDomain" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
It seems affiliated with N4G, but am not exactly sure how. One feature article I was reading uses a pseudonym for its author. SharkD Talk 03:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
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Find video game sources: "XBLAfans" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
I'm entirely unsure on this one. There's a lot of great nuggets on this site regarding XBLA titles that receive little coverage elsewhere, but I can't find much on the staff (on the right panel of the site). I feel like I've seen the editor-in-chief (John Laster)'s writings published elsewhere, but I haven't been able to come up with much. He seems linked in with the several high-end journalists such as Brian Crecente. Given the rest of the staff this would probably a situational source at best, but I wanted to get someone who's better at hunting down published articles to check the site. Thanks much. -- Teancum ( talk) 15:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Given the above I'd like to make this a situational source based on the author of the article cited. On a slightly different topic I'm finding more and more that finding specialized coverage for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare games is getting tougher, so we may need to look at sites like these more with the "are they an expert" rather than the "publishing history", as often these kinds of sites are where I find XBLA developer interviews and the like, and that's likely to continue that way. -- Teancum ( talk) 10:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I contacted John Laster, editor-in-chief to find out about his staff. Here's the relevant part of his response:
As for our staff, all three listed editors have a pretty extensive background. I've been doing this for about 3-4 years now for various sites and finally decided to start something up on my own. Tyler Cameron has been writing for about a year and half mostly for www.gamernode.com. Kaitlyn Chantry is a Harvard grad her past work is listed on her personal site. John Carson has worked on and off with me for two years. Primarily with www.thegamereviews.com (which is now dead sadly). Vlad Micu is the head of GameSauce.org and has been in the industry for about 4 years. His list of sites he has written for is a tad too long for me to recap off the top of my head.
Each of the listed editors above is part of a new partnership that will be happening with GameSauce.org within the next month (Industry Magazine that is bigger in Europe than the US). They are bringing me on as an expert on XBLA games to conduct and edit interviews and that will involve each of the rest of my staff to an extent.
Ross Adam has written for Cast Medium and http://www.bitmob.com/
Andrew Crews has been pretty solid for us, but his lineage is a bit more limited. His personal blog: http://www.chainmonster.com/
Blake collello and Rob Owens both did some freelance work for us back when I was the editor of www.thegamereviews.com
Cameron Titus and Xeserox do not have formal experience and may need to be avoided.
Gamesauce is both an online and print-based magazine based in Seattle, WA; it has an industry-based 25,000 circulation, with about 1/3 of that being outside of the US. I feel like lends some weight to each of the editors in his first paragraph. The other four editors in the second paragraph are much less experienced, and I can only see Ross Adam having any sort of ability to be a reliable source. I'd really like more feedback on this. I have a special interest in sites like these since finding great coverage for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/Indie games in general is getting harder to do. (See my rationale in the #Strategy Informer section below) -- Teancum ( talk) 09:36, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
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I would like to propose the inclusion of VG247 as a general reliable source. The blog was listed as the 3rd best gaming blog by CNET, who praised them saying "the writing is excellent, and it covers all the important news with a twist of humour." [13] The site won the Game Media Awards 2009's Best Blog Award [14] and was nominated once again in the category in 2010. [15] The site was co-founded by Patrick Garett and Eurogamer (which is a reliable source). Patrick Garett won at the Games Media Awards 2009, Best Specialist Writer, Online and Games Media Legend. [16] In addition he had previously worked with Eurogamer, GamesIndustry.biz, CVG, Xbox World and others as a journalist, editor and publisher. [17] Other site staff include Stephany Nunneley who was a former Gaming Today (on FileFront) writer and 1UP.com contributor. [18] As well as Nathan Grayson who has written articles for Maximum PC, The Escapist. [19]
In addition the site is strictly a newsblog, so there are no blog-like posts. Thus it should be seriously considered for becoming a reliable source. KiasuKiasiMan 12:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "RunDLC" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
A site focusing on XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/iOS games primarily. Run by Chris Buffa and Robert Workman of GameDaily (a reliable source). Buffa also writes for Joystiq and has an education in corporate communication, which helps his journalistic background. Workman's LinkedIn profile notes he went to college for journalism and writes for multiple sites. A third writer, John Artest, also contributes to the site. I couldn't find any information on him, but given the other two's background and the fact that they write for reliable sources I'm willing to weight in his favor. Although it's simply a blog they do get some exclusive interviews with indie developers, which helps immensely when doing articles for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/iOS games. Requesting this be a reliable source; if not that then a situational one. The same ruleset would apply to any other reliable/situational blog in that it needs to pass WP:DUCK. -- Teancum ( talk) 17:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
[22] Since the search engine uses this page in addition, I am wondering if we should do so here. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "576 Konzol" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Established as a magazine in 1997, is was the largest magazine of its kind in the country and a few surrounding ones, and the byword for video game magazines in the country, and it is the first console only magazine in Hungary. It was published by 576 "Comgame" Kft which previously publish 576 KByte from 1990 to 2003. This corporation runs the 576 KByte shops too. It's defunct after the October 2008 issue, and transform into 576 KByte, which last only 20 issue and then it's became an online magazine. It has some interviews (with Bungie, SCEE, FASA Interactive, Epic Games, Mithis Entertainment, and so on), but some of them are translated from unreliable (?) sites (from Mayhem UK C64 fansite). They not only cover videogames (from SNES to the PS3/X360/Wii era) and hardwares (videogame consoloes and accesories), but animes, mangas, retro games, films, books, music, webpages, and even videogame magazines. After it's defunct some of it's editors are ( Martin the editor-in-chief, Dzson, Miklós Veres, antaru, Petúnia) are estabilish the PlayStation.Community - The Hungarian PlayStation Insiders webpage. Some of it's editors are (Grath and Sasa) from PC Guru and one of them (Oldern) write for Mondo magazine too. The magazine was the partner of Mangafan, a manga publisher, and Mondo magazine. Martin the editor-in-chief for 576 Konzol, and for the PSC is currently writes in Konzol magazine too. So what do I need to do to get it formally approved? Sillent DX ( talk) 06:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
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www.bitmob.com - As situational, due to community writers posting in the same spot as staff writers. The staff writers seem pretty reliable - Dan Hsu, Greg Ford, and Demian Linn all contributed to EGM, Jason Wilson was a sportswriter for nearly 10 years and a former copy chief for Ziff Davis Media Game Group, Aaron Thomas has contributed to IGN, GamePro, GameSpot, and GamesRadar, etc. There's a pretty vast collection of reliable people in the site, but like I said, the community submits articles to bitmob, which are posted in the same style and format as the staff articles. Perhaps if there was a note to not use anything written by a "Community Writer"? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 04:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
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I think Square Enix Music Online has reached the point where it can be accepted as a situational source, as it has become a really good resource for game music-related topics. It provides interviews with game composers and is one of the few sites to offer periodical album reviews. Their news reports have been picked up by various reliable sources ( Kotaku 1, Kotaku 2, Joystiq, Edge). Since the great Music4Games has closed down, this site has been a good substitute with its exclusive content. The only thing I noticed is that some of the biographies on game composers seem to contain some slight mistakes (years mixed up etc.), which is why I propose only their non-biography content to be used as a source. Prime Blue ( talk) 14:32, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Discussion has lasted for some time and the opinions were unanimous, so I promoted it to situational source. Prime Blue ( talk) 13:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
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I believe that in spite of them not being about video games, they cover it to a significant enough of a degree that it would be very useful to list them as a usable source. I don't right now have the credentials for them, but I'm fairly certain that they are considered reliable sources. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:34, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
New beta is up for those interested, http://waybackmachine.org/ « ₣M₣ » 22:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Game Chronicles - Previously the site was deemed unreliable, however since then improvements have been made, including publishing of their review process. The staff page is here. No bias one way or another, just pinging the community one this. -- Teancum ( talk) 15:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Factual Background:
There is a disagreement on the OnLive Discussion page about whether 2 related articles from Eurogamer's Digital Foundry by the same author are acceptable or preferable as sources for the OnLive article. Currently, they dominate the OnLive article as a source, providing the support for over 500 words out of about 2,500 words in the body of the article. In earlier revisions, they have represented an even larger proportion.
The first article was published shortly after OnLive was announced in March of 2009:
"GDC: Why OnLive Can't Possibly Work" [24] The second article was published shortly after OnLive was released to the public in July of 2010:
“OnLive Latency: The Reckoning” [25]
Since the first article was cited in the OnLive article, several editors have strongly objected to use of the first, and later, the second, article, as sources, while other editors have just as strongly supported using the articles as sources, resulting in many deletions and restorations of content sourced from the articles. Currently, Eurogamer is listed as a reliable source in the Videogames Wikiproject, and in the most recent discussion, one of the editors has stated that as the reason why the articles are appropriate sources for the OnLive article.
My view of why these articles are not appropriate sources:
While Eurogamer may be a reliable source generally, these particular two articles are in violation of several Wikipedia source guidelines, including WP:SOURCES, WP:PRIMARY, WP:REDFLAG, WP:NPOV, WP:IRS.
The articles are WP:PRIMARY articles based on original “research”. The articles cite no identifiable sources to back up their claims. To the extent the first article cites an “expert” source, it identifies an anonymous foul-mouthed video compression expert who supposedly developed YouTube’s HD video technology. The supposed expert’s information is not only acknowledged as false by the second article, but, as referenced in the Wikipedia article on YouTube (with reliable sources), YouTube’s HD video technology is based on Adobe Flash (which in turn, was based on H.264 compression), and was not developed by YouTube. Thus, not only were the statements by the “expert” highly defamatory to OnLive, were laced with foul language, and were acknowledged in the second article to be false, but no such “YouTube HD video” expert exists and was clearly fabricated to create the appearance of a famous expert to back up the article’s exceptional claims.
The WP:REDFLAG “exceptional claims” made by the articles start with the title of the first article “Why OnLive Can’t Possibly Work”, using pseudo-scientific arguments backed by supposed experts (at least one who was fabricated), which were debunked by the fact that OnLive does, in fact, work. The second article grudgingly acknowledges that the first article’s assertions were false, or at best grossly exaggerated. Nonetheless, it continues to make further “exceptional claims”, again citing anonymous supposed experts who supposedly conducted more pseudo-scientific testing, which of course, conclude that despite the fact OnLive does work, it does not work well. Since the second article was published, no other source has reproduced the pseudo-scientific tests, and further, credible mass-market sources have endorsed OnLive, as major game publishers have released games on OnLive and the largest North American TV manufacture, Vizio, announced it would build OnLive into TVs, blu-ray players and Android devices. With so many of the “exceptional claims” not only contradicted by the prevailing view, but grudgingly by one of the articles itself, these are articles violate WP:REDFLAG policy.
The articles take a strongly negative view in violation of WP:NPOV, they are extremely critical and at best damn with faint praise, they make personal attacks on OnLive principals, stating their claims are false, even after the second article admitted the first article’s personal attacks were unfounded, by characterizing OnLive as a hoax and its principals as making false claims, they seek to undermine the reputation of individuals and the organization.
Because these articles attack living persons, and are self-admittedly false, they violate WP:IRS and should be taken down. “Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.” Further, the articles clearly are in violation of many of the WP:IRS scholarship guidelines: “Isolated studies are usually considered tentative and may change in the light of further academic research” (these “studies” are not only isolated, but self-contradictory). These articles cite pseudo-science research as if it is real academic research, but there is no reputable peer review, no identifiable sources, and have not been accepted by the academic community. Further, these articles qualify as “Questionable sources” under WP:IRS: these articles did not check facts, lack editorial oversight and express views that are extremist in nature, making them particularly unsuitable for citing contentious claims against institutions or living persons.
Lastly, setting aside all of the deficiencies of these articles, there is no justification for having content sourced from these articles dominate the OnLive article. A Google search of “onlive” produces over 2 million web results, 193,000 blog results, and 285 News results for 2011, 2,200 News results for 2010, and 1,220 News results for 2009. Amongst all of these articles, surely we can find reliable sources that are balanced and do not resort to foul language and personal attacks.
So, even if Eurogamer is to be deemed a reliable source in general by this Wikiproject, Eurogamer’s articles about OnLive should not be deemed either reliable or appropriate sources for Wikipedia.
Createk ( talk) 06:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Propose Co-Optimus as reliable source. Editorial staff overview displayed at [28], articles have bylines, article quality looks pretty decent and I see no evidence of copypasta reposting of flack materials. Looks adequate to me. —chaos5023 ( talk) 01:58, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "Gamesauce" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Gamesauce ( website) is both an online and print-based magazine based in Seattle, WA; it has an industry-based 25,000 circulation, with about 1/3 of that being outside of the US. See their about us page for more information. Some of the staff have backgrounds as game developers, others are more journalism-based. The magazine typically has interviews with indie studios and contributors from those studios who write articles on game design, as well as other content. I'm looking mostly to approve this on the basis of the interviews/highlights of game studios such as their article on RedLynx, which would be a huge asset to the RedLynx article. I'd say articles by contributors should generally be avoided but can be considered on a case-by-case basis - such a case could be the possibility of a major video game designer such as Ron Gilbert or Tim Schafer contributing a retrospective article on their past games. Some realistic examples would be their interviews with Thatgamecompany's Kellee Santiago and Robin Hunicke along with bigger companies such as Gearbox Software's Steve Gibson and Bethesda Softworks's Pete Hines. -- Teancum ( talk) 16:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "ElectronicTheatere" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
I just found this, I thinking it might no be reliable but I'm not sure. What do you think? Sarujo ( talk) 12:19, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
I've always wondered: shouldn't we include web sites that don't deal with video games? IE CNN, Fox News, Yahoo!, etc.? Like with Wired, while they don't focus on video games, they clearly are verifiable, and with them added, the Google search for video game sources would be a lot more varied. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah so I just got a new magazine called Gamer in the mail. And I mean new as in its the 6th issue. Its called the offical magazine of Best Buy and I wanna know how reliable it is. GamerPro64 ( talk) 22:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
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Can we use this site? It appears they do a lot of interviews with the industry and have contacts. Google news uses them (which, while I know isn't a guarantor of reliability, does tend to lend some credit). There was only one breif discussion about it User:Jappalang was against it because he didn't think RPGamer was a RS. [29] 陣 内 Jinnai 21:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I've noticed that when searching, the search engine will never go past more than 10 pages. Is there any way to fix this? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
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the magicbox - the site seems to be a news aggregator & translation + sales chartz. There is no about page, just contact. They do say where their sales chartz come from and do seem to have ongoing sales charts from Media Create and several charts from famitsu. I'm wanting to know if they'd be viable as a good site per WP:ENGLISH. Note, while they do seem to regularly get data from media create, famitsu and others, its not clear on their yearly charts that the data is (likely) complied. 陣 内 Jinnai 03:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
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hardcoregaming101 I'm not sure if this should be listed as totally or situational, but Kurt Kalata who is a writer for Gamasutra appears to have done work on this site. I'm not sure if anyone else notable is there. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:38, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I have come across N-Sider as a source for many Nintendo-related details on Wikipedia, but despite their former partnership with IGN (resulting in these texts: [42], [43], [44], [45], [46]), I think their articles and features are to be considered unreliable as they are littered with severe mistakes, flat-out speculation and intentionally falsified information to make aforementioned speculation seem legit.
N-Sider staff writer Anthony JC seems to be the worst offender, having created the most speculative articles that pass themselves off as fact. But as the information in features is shared between items in N-Sider's database, I think it is hard to take anything from them for granted. Same goes for the articles they provided to IGN, which contain some of the mistakes and speculation shown above. Therefore, I'd limit N-Sider's reliable content to developer interviews they actually conducted themselves (in which I could not find any factual errors). I am not sure on allowing the site's game reviews since most of N-Sider's staff seems to be composed of volunteers rather than journalists (Jeffrey Van Camp is one, though I don't know if he wrote for any video game sites in a reviewing capacity). Prime Blue ( talk) 17:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
As I understand it from WP:VG/RS, Kotaku "News posts after 2010 are considered reliable. For posts before 2010, only those (significant) opinion posts that are written by established writers are allowed." What about posts during 2010? There's a lot of pieces I'd like to add to articles, but I want to clarify this before I start adding them. The wording seems a bit ambiguous in this regard. Nomader ( Talk) 10:26, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
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Personally I think it's time we revisit the rationale: "A blog network; use of this site and its affiliates should be carefully considered. Often, it is best to demonstrate the reliability of the individual authors sourced." While I understand the WP:RS rational behind blogs, in the case of sites such as Joystiq (as well as Kotaku, Destructiod, etc) a blog is merely the vehicle of delivery. The editorial process is independent of the method of delivery. While not every blog falls under this umbrella, Joystiq certainly does, having a strong team and clear editorial process. The first seven members of the team listed are industry veterans, and given their collective experience and state of the site it's clear that their editorial process is strong. Press releases, rumors, news, etc are all very clearly marked. Articles are well written and historically factual. Like any site, regardless of being a blog or not, non-newsworthy posts are occasionally made, however that's a simple WP:DUCK test. -- Teancum ( talk) 14:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Not sure at all of its notability; merely wondering if it can be used in any way for indie articles. [49] - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 09:57, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
It's been several months now when I was on arguing for a discussion of the reliability of gamrFeed and gamrReview as reliable sources. They are both part of the VGChartz Network and VGChartz has been dismissed an unreliable. I'm not asking for a re-evaluation of that. I am the editor-in-chief of the editorial sites (not the sales analysis side) and we have successfully taken the sales articles off the gamrfeed.vgchartz.com URL. They still appear on gamrFeed, but clicking them will redirect to the sales site, vgchartz.com. gamrFeed is a blog-style site with a mix of experienced and inexperienced writers, so I'm hoping for some conditional approval there. gamrReview is used on GameRankings.com and is sourced by EEDAR as well. I can also tell you the staff behind the numbers do not write any editorial content for gamrFeed or gamrReview. Thank your for your fair-minded discussion and consideration. -- Havokclix ( talk) 00:39, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
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I'd like to demote this to unreliable; the current wording is unclear why it may be suitable for older games and I doubt it would hold up in a serious FAC since the content is user generated. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to get some further discussion of AtariAge's usability as a situational source. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
This link is being disputed by editor Ryulong in this article to verify the number of Pokémon in the games; Ryulong argues that it is a bad source because the source comes from either Japanese hackers (assumed) or Serebii (assumed). However, neither assertion can be shown by the user, so I am attempting to argue that it is in violation of WP:V's rule of focusing on verifiability rather than the truth of the statement to assume that an otherwise reliable source is not reliable without evidence of this. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:05, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to get some further discussion of Nintendo Life's usability as a situational source. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
[50] - Eric Caoili is a regular contributor to both Gamasutra and Game Set Watch. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 23:16, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Can iFixit be used as a source? What about if they're citing a reference like Chipworks? Example. « ₣M₣ » 21:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
about page. I'm wondering if they would be acceptable as a WP:NEWSORG (as opposed to general SPS). They definatly seem to have some editorial oversight and are not just a "typical blog".
I ask specifically because I'd like to use this article on destructoid by one of their editors. 陣 内 Jinnai 02:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I've just started a discussion here regarding the usability of Atari HQ as a reliable source. As this is a video game related topic, a member of WPVG has asked me to post a note here as well. If you are interesting in participating, please post at the above-linked subsection rather than here so that we can keep the discussion centralized. Cheers. - Thibbs ( talk) 23:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Is this site considered unreliable? From what I've read, it produces signed, fairly objective reviews, and it's about the only secondary source about Ryzom, so I'd like to use it. Ketil ( talk) 18:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
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Seen lots of useful content from them and think they are reliable (they were previously known as Planet GameCube):
And so on. Prime Blue ( talk) 19:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't seem like there are any objections, so I'll add it in a few days. Prime Blue ( talk) 10:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
See this edit. I don't think the inclusion of GameRankings/Metacritic stats are inappropriate but user:Indrian does. Ideas? SharkD Talk 20:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
During an AfD I tried to evaluate this review at Inside Social Games, and wondered if the site could be considered reliable. About page: The founder is Justin Smith and the editor Eric Eldon. The site is part of Smith's Inside Network. Seems to have more of an industry background than the usual self-published games site. Marasmusine ( talk) 18:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
So I saw this source being used in Elaine Marley, and I was wondering exactly how reliable it was. If it is reliable, which parts (e.g. are the articles notable? If so, what about the blogs?) If at least some of it is reliable, then great, as we can add it to a bunch of other articles for reception and help booster notability. Harry Blue5 ( talk) 08:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
[87] - I'm reviewing Neutopia for GA, and that source is currently the only issue. It has some editorial oversight - listing expectations of quality from their contributors - but none of the contributors seems especially reliable. And it's a damn shame to lose the source, since it seems like a good one for obscure consoles like the TurboGrafx. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "NowGamer" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
Example links. NowGamer is a site that does reviews, previews, news, features and other stuff. According to their review section "All the reviews on NowGamer.com are written by experienced professional games experts who live, sleep and breathe games for every format and for the last 25 years". Examples of some writers include Adam Barnes and Dave Cook, just in case those names mean anything to anybody. Is this site reliable? Harry Blue5 ( talk • contribs) 14:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Just revitalizing discussion on whether jayisgames.com can be used as a reliable source. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 00:25, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
[88] - Site has several notable gaming industry personalities, as well as an editor-in-chief who has contributed to other notable websites, including The New York Times. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 03:57, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Just posting this link. Good to see that they constantly review their sources, and are on the look out for anything dodgy. Link - X201 ( talk) 10:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
For PC games, what sources are favored in citing those games' system requirements? This information is typically included on the packaging of games sold at retail, and for those types of games, this is one situation where I believe the game itself could serve as a reliable source. For games that are distributed digitally, the requirements are usually listed on the distributor's site. However, many online games receive ongoing updates that change the system requirements over time. Would the developer's web site, even though it is self published, be the most reliable source in these cases? --Jt12852 07:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jt12852 ( talk • contribs)
Bringing up Original Sound Version as reliable, because it is a very useful source for video game music-related topics. They provide interviews, news reports and reviews. Don't let the blog-like format scare you off – founder Jayson Napolitano was a staff writer for the reliable Music4Games, and conducted interviews for the site.
Content from Original Sound Version has been cited by:
Prime Blue ( talk) 12:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
Can this site I just found today be reliable? Sarujo ( talk) 06:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
I recently used the VG Google Search and it kicked out a TopTenReviews page: [103] - an editorial review. The site is currently listed as "unreliable" with the comment "Site was deemed to be unreliable as only usage of them is from forum posts and the like and there is no clear strong editorial oversight." and prior discussion here only addresses their use as a aggregate site. Since this review is neither a forum post or an aggregate score, and our custom search picked up on it, perhaps we should clarify? Marasmusine ( talk) 09:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Upon doing research for an article, I happened upon this site. I not familiar with staff, so what's the verdict? Sarujo ( talk) 23:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
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I'd like to propose moving Gamefaqs from the "situational sources" section to the "unreliable sources" section per this discussion on WT:VG a while ago. In summary Gamefaqs is currently allowed to be cited only for release info, but there is little evidence that their user-submitted info is checked for accuracy as they claim, and I think there is enough evidence that this fact-checking is simply not happening. There were suggestions in that discussion that the level of inaccuracy was due to the age of the games in question, and that the supposed higher accuracy of more recent games makes up for it. If it's true that newer games' (surely more likely to have non-Gamefaqs sources available anyway?) info is more accurate, then Gamefaqs is picking and choosing which games are worthy of fact-checking with criteria that are not known to us, so we have no way of knowing where their "accuracy line" is drawn, if anywhere. At the least I think a cut-off point should be made where Gamefaqs is not considered reliable for games over a certain age. However, I'd prefer that it be deemed unreliable altogether, as I think for a site that is already considered unreliable for everything else, it should really pull out the stops to justify its exceptional status for dates, but it doesn't. I would hope that an "unreliable" status for Gamefaqs would improve sourcing by encouraging editors to find better sources for these dates. Thanks, Miremare 20:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Demoted. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
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Previous discussion did not get any replies, so I'm bringing it up again. I still think it is a big problem that the site causes misinformation to be included in so many video game articles.
I have come across N-Sider as a source for many Nintendo-related details on Wikipedia, but despite their former partnership with IGN (resulting in these features: [111], [112], [113], [114], [115]), I think their articles and features are to be considered unreliable as they are littered with severe mistakes, flat-out speculation and intentionally falsified information to make aforementioned speculation seem legit.
N-Sider staff writer Anthony JC seems to be the worst offender, having created the most speculative articles that pass themselves off as fact. But as the information in features is shared between items in N-Sider's database, I think it is hard to take anything from them for granted. Same goes for the articles they provided to IGN, which contain some of the mistakes and speculation shown above. Therefore, I'd limit N-Sider's reliable content to developer interviews they actually conducted themselves (in which I could not find any factual errors). I am not sure on allowing the site's game reviews since most of N-Sider's staff seems to be composed of volunteers rather than journalists (Jeffrey Van Camp is one, though I don't know if he wrote for any video game sites in a reviewing capacity). Prime Blue ( talk) 13:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Demoted. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
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Find video game sources: "Strategy Informer" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Proposing this be a situational source. Seems to have been around since 2000, and the quality of writing seems up to snuff. Here is the "About Us" page. I'd say given the quality of writing and the years under its belt that I'd at least throw this into a situational, if not reliable status. It's independent of any media network, but I don't think that comes into play. I'm mostly interested in their reviews, as they review the occasional indie game and/or DLC, and frankly sources for these games are hard to come by. I just feel like it's time to apply WP:SOURCES in the best way we can for indie games. We can't always rely on the IGNs and GameSpots of this world. Frankly indie games often receive more coverage at indie sites. Reviews, interviews, and often some previews don't make it to the "big sites". I'm not saying that an article can stay afloat merely by a handful of situational indie sources - it has to have some mainstream coverage. What I am saying is that in order to properly write some of these articles additional sources which cover the subject matter in-depth art needed.
Yeah - long post for a short request. I just want to be sure we don't pull the old "they don't belong to a media company, so they aren't reliable" stand-by we sometimes use. I'll be nominating other indie sites in the future, so I want us to broaden our mindset while still staying in policy. -- Teancum ( talk) 09:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Some editors are wanting to use http://gamehall.uol.com.br/site/a-historia-do-mega-drive/ at Mega Drive, History of video game consoles (fourth generation), Console wars, and List of best-selling game consoles as a source for sales of the Mega Drive by TecToy and Majesco. It seems to me like a fansite or blog site that got together some bloggers/gamers and dubbed them "editors".
Note a discussion of the larger issue of whether what they're doing with that source is or is not WP:SYN has been started at WP:ORN#Mega Drive/Genesis sales, feel free to comment there too. Thanks. Anomie ⚔ 16:56, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
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I want to propose that Kotaku be promoted from situational source to reliable source. Its been 3 years since Kotaku, has been added as a situational source and alot has changed. The blog was name by CNET in its top 100 blog as well as top 100 in the Technorati's Top 100. CNET Top 100 [2] The site is still headed by Brian Crecente who has appeared on Fox News as stated on the page. Since then there has been a new Deputy Editor on the site, Stephen Totilo, who has worked with MTV Networks on video games, written articles for IGN, New York Times, Newsweek among others. [3] Brian Ashcraft, senior editor, has written and published a book on video game arcades in Japan in 2008. [4] Michael McWhertor, reviews editor, was asked by SCE to appear on the second season their reality series, The Tester. As well as a guest on Gametrailers TV. [5] Michel Fahey was the head-writer for videogamers.com, a video gaming site in the 1990s and had covered numerous E3 events during his time. videogamers.com also had other notable staff such as James Stevenson who is now a community manager for Insomniac Games. [6]
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The PlayStation Blog is increasingly becoming, a popular source especially for PlayStation-related games or articles. This is due to the increasing number of 3rd-party studio interviews being conducted on the site. The blog is published by Sony Computer Entertainment which makes it reliable, though some may argue that it is not neutral but neutrality is not required under WP:SOURCE. Secondly, articles should be judged from the author of the article rather than the publisher. Since majority of the articles are written by actual staff of third-party studios, they should be considered as qualified authors. E.g. [7] [8] Also the PS Blog is more like a news blog rather than a personal blog, publishing only gaming related articles and no geek stuff etc. So its acceptable under WP:NEWSBLOG. In addition, in recent times there have been alot of interviews or announcements that have been released first on the PS Blog, thus it is starting to become a strong source of information regarding gaming. So I propose that it be shifted from a situational source to a reliable source under platform-specific. KiasuKiasiMan 14:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "Coming Soon Magazine" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
I thought I would ping the project on the suitability of "Coming Soon Magazine" as a reliable source. I was thinking of using one of their reviews in a Wikipedia article but noticed they have not yet been rated.
On the CSM website it says CSM started in 1993-1994 distributing over BBSes and incorporated in Vermont in 1996. Based on the content of the site it looks like they stopped writing reviews sometime in 1997, although there are a few "2000" dates on their site too.
CSM is used as a reference in several Wikipedia articles, including Master_of_Magic, Warcraft:_Orcs_&_Humans, and Age_of_Empires_(video_game). They have been used as links or references in a few places on the net, such as MobyGames and StarWarsLinks.com, but I'm not sure those are terribly reputable. According to google they have also been used as a reference in a few books (see google books link above) It doesn't look like CSM was ever distributed in print.
The quality of reviews seems to vary with the author - some reviews are concise and well-written; others have poor grammar and drone on without saying much.
Anyway, I am not looking to undermine existing articles, but to see what everyone thinks. Cheers. -- Culix ( talk) 19:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
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The Electric Playground and Reviews on the Run are related broadcast television programs airing in Canada, with the former also becoming available in United States and Australia. Aired episodes are accessible on their website. No viewer or reader generated content is apparently available on the web sites. It may be similar to X-Play. A user has suggested that Reviews on the Run is a not a reliable source. Where should these shows go on the list of sources? I can't find many third party references to them. Shawnc ( talk) 13:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
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It seems affiliated with N4G, but am not exactly sure how. One feature article I was reading uses a pseudonym for its author. SharkD Talk 03:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
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Find video game sources: "XBLAfans" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
I'm entirely unsure on this one. There's a lot of great nuggets on this site regarding XBLA titles that receive little coverage elsewhere, but I can't find much on the staff (on the right panel of the site). I feel like I've seen the editor-in-chief (John Laster)'s writings published elsewhere, but I haven't been able to come up with much. He seems linked in with the several high-end journalists such as Brian Crecente. Given the rest of the staff this would probably a situational source at best, but I wanted to get someone who's better at hunting down published articles to check the site. Thanks much. -- Teancum ( talk) 15:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Given the above I'd like to make this a situational source based on the author of the article cited. On a slightly different topic I'm finding more and more that finding specialized coverage for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare games is getting tougher, so we may need to look at sites like these more with the "are they an expert" rather than the "publishing history", as often these kinds of sites are where I find XBLA developer interviews and the like, and that's likely to continue that way. -- Teancum ( talk) 10:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I contacted John Laster, editor-in-chief to find out about his staff. Here's the relevant part of his response:
As for our staff, all three listed editors have a pretty extensive background. I've been doing this for about 3-4 years now for various sites and finally decided to start something up on my own. Tyler Cameron has been writing for about a year and half mostly for www.gamernode.com. Kaitlyn Chantry is a Harvard grad her past work is listed on her personal site. John Carson has worked on and off with me for two years. Primarily with www.thegamereviews.com (which is now dead sadly). Vlad Micu is the head of GameSauce.org and has been in the industry for about 4 years. His list of sites he has written for is a tad too long for me to recap off the top of my head.
Each of the listed editors above is part of a new partnership that will be happening with GameSauce.org within the next month (Industry Magazine that is bigger in Europe than the US). They are bringing me on as an expert on XBLA games to conduct and edit interviews and that will involve each of the rest of my staff to an extent.
Ross Adam has written for Cast Medium and http://www.bitmob.com/
Andrew Crews has been pretty solid for us, but his lineage is a bit more limited. His personal blog: http://www.chainmonster.com/
Blake collello and Rob Owens both did some freelance work for us back when I was the editor of www.thegamereviews.com
Cameron Titus and Xeserox do not have formal experience and may need to be avoided.
Gamesauce is both an online and print-based magazine based in Seattle, WA; it has an industry-based 25,000 circulation, with about 1/3 of that being outside of the US. I feel like lends some weight to each of the editors in his first paragraph. The other four editors in the second paragraph are much less experienced, and I can only see Ross Adam having any sort of ability to be a reliable source. I'd really like more feedback on this. I have a special interest in sites like these since finding great coverage for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/Indie games in general is getting harder to do. (See my rationale in the #Strategy Informer section below) -- Teancum ( talk) 09:36, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
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I would like to propose the inclusion of VG247 as a general reliable source. The blog was listed as the 3rd best gaming blog by CNET, who praised them saying "the writing is excellent, and it covers all the important news with a twist of humour." [13] The site won the Game Media Awards 2009's Best Blog Award [14] and was nominated once again in the category in 2010. [15] The site was co-founded by Patrick Garett and Eurogamer (which is a reliable source). Patrick Garett won at the Games Media Awards 2009, Best Specialist Writer, Online and Games Media Legend. [16] In addition he had previously worked with Eurogamer, GamesIndustry.biz, CVG, Xbox World and others as a journalist, editor and publisher. [17] Other site staff include Stephany Nunneley who was a former Gaming Today (on FileFront) writer and 1UP.com contributor. [18] As well as Nathan Grayson who has written articles for Maximum PC, The Escapist. [19]
In addition the site is strictly a newsblog, so there are no blog-like posts. Thus it should be seriously considered for becoming a reliable source. KiasuKiasiMan 12:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "RunDLC" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
A site focusing on XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/iOS games primarily. Run by Chris Buffa and Robert Workman of GameDaily (a reliable source). Buffa also writes for Joystiq and has an education in corporate communication, which helps his journalistic background. Workman's LinkedIn profile notes he went to college for journalism and writes for multiple sites. A third writer, John Artest, also contributes to the site. I couldn't find any information on him, but given the other two's background and the fact that they write for reliable sources I'm willing to weight in his favor. Although it's simply a blog they do get some exclusive interviews with indie developers, which helps immensely when doing articles for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/iOS games. Requesting this be a reliable source; if not that then a situational one. The same ruleset would apply to any other reliable/situational blog in that it needs to pass WP:DUCK. -- Teancum ( talk) 17:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
[22] Since the search engine uses this page in addition, I am wondering if we should do so here. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "576 Konzol" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Established as a magazine in 1997, is was the largest magazine of its kind in the country and a few surrounding ones, and the byword for video game magazines in the country, and it is the first console only magazine in Hungary. It was published by 576 "Comgame" Kft which previously publish 576 KByte from 1990 to 2003. This corporation runs the 576 KByte shops too. It's defunct after the October 2008 issue, and transform into 576 KByte, which last only 20 issue and then it's became an online magazine. It has some interviews (with Bungie, SCEE, FASA Interactive, Epic Games, Mithis Entertainment, and so on), but some of them are translated from unreliable (?) sites (from Mayhem UK C64 fansite). They not only cover videogames (from SNES to the PS3/X360/Wii era) and hardwares (videogame consoloes and accesories), but animes, mangas, retro games, films, books, music, webpages, and even videogame magazines. After it's defunct some of it's editors are ( Martin the editor-in-chief, Dzson, Miklós Veres, antaru, Petúnia) are estabilish the PlayStation.Community - The Hungarian PlayStation Insiders webpage. Some of it's editors are (Grath and Sasa) from PC Guru and one of them (Oldern) write for Mondo magazine too. The magazine was the partner of Mangafan, a manga publisher, and Mondo magazine. Martin the editor-in-chief for 576 Konzol, and for the PSC is currently writes in Konzol magazine too. So what do I need to do to get it formally approved? Sillent DX ( talk) 06:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
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www.bitmob.com - As situational, due to community writers posting in the same spot as staff writers. The staff writers seem pretty reliable - Dan Hsu, Greg Ford, and Demian Linn all contributed to EGM, Jason Wilson was a sportswriter for nearly 10 years and a former copy chief for Ziff Davis Media Game Group, Aaron Thomas has contributed to IGN, GamePro, GameSpot, and GamesRadar, etc. There's a pretty vast collection of reliable people in the site, but like I said, the community submits articles to bitmob, which are posted in the same style and format as the staff articles. Perhaps if there was a note to not use anything written by a "Community Writer"? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 04:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
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I think Square Enix Music Online has reached the point where it can be accepted as a situational source, as it has become a really good resource for game music-related topics. It provides interviews with game composers and is one of the few sites to offer periodical album reviews. Their news reports have been picked up by various reliable sources ( Kotaku 1, Kotaku 2, Joystiq, Edge). Since the great Music4Games has closed down, this site has been a good substitute with its exclusive content. The only thing I noticed is that some of the biographies on game composers seem to contain some slight mistakes (years mixed up etc.), which is why I propose only their non-biography content to be used as a source. Prime Blue ( talk) 14:32, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Discussion has lasted for some time and the opinions were unanimous, so I promoted it to situational source. Prime Blue ( talk) 13:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
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I believe that in spite of them not being about video games, they cover it to a significant enough of a degree that it would be very useful to list them as a usable source. I don't right now have the credentials for them, but I'm fairly certain that they are considered reliable sources. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:34, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
New beta is up for those interested, http://waybackmachine.org/ « ₣M₣ » 22:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Game Chronicles - Previously the site was deemed unreliable, however since then improvements have been made, including publishing of their review process. The staff page is here. No bias one way or another, just pinging the community one this. -- Teancum ( talk) 15:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Factual Background:
There is a disagreement on the OnLive Discussion page about whether 2 related articles from Eurogamer's Digital Foundry by the same author are acceptable or preferable as sources for the OnLive article. Currently, they dominate the OnLive article as a source, providing the support for over 500 words out of about 2,500 words in the body of the article. In earlier revisions, they have represented an even larger proportion.
The first article was published shortly after OnLive was announced in March of 2009:
"GDC: Why OnLive Can't Possibly Work" [24] The second article was published shortly after OnLive was released to the public in July of 2010:
“OnLive Latency: The Reckoning” [25]
Since the first article was cited in the OnLive article, several editors have strongly objected to use of the first, and later, the second, article, as sources, while other editors have just as strongly supported using the articles as sources, resulting in many deletions and restorations of content sourced from the articles. Currently, Eurogamer is listed as a reliable source in the Videogames Wikiproject, and in the most recent discussion, one of the editors has stated that as the reason why the articles are appropriate sources for the OnLive article.
My view of why these articles are not appropriate sources:
While Eurogamer may be a reliable source generally, these particular two articles are in violation of several Wikipedia source guidelines, including WP:SOURCES, WP:PRIMARY, WP:REDFLAG, WP:NPOV, WP:IRS.
The articles are WP:PRIMARY articles based on original “research”. The articles cite no identifiable sources to back up their claims. To the extent the first article cites an “expert” source, it identifies an anonymous foul-mouthed video compression expert who supposedly developed YouTube’s HD video technology. The supposed expert’s information is not only acknowledged as false by the second article, but, as referenced in the Wikipedia article on YouTube (with reliable sources), YouTube’s HD video technology is based on Adobe Flash (which in turn, was based on H.264 compression), and was not developed by YouTube. Thus, not only were the statements by the “expert” highly defamatory to OnLive, were laced with foul language, and were acknowledged in the second article to be false, but no such “YouTube HD video” expert exists and was clearly fabricated to create the appearance of a famous expert to back up the article’s exceptional claims.
The WP:REDFLAG “exceptional claims” made by the articles start with the title of the first article “Why OnLive Can’t Possibly Work”, using pseudo-scientific arguments backed by supposed experts (at least one who was fabricated), which were debunked by the fact that OnLive does, in fact, work. The second article grudgingly acknowledges that the first article’s assertions were false, or at best grossly exaggerated. Nonetheless, it continues to make further “exceptional claims”, again citing anonymous supposed experts who supposedly conducted more pseudo-scientific testing, which of course, conclude that despite the fact OnLive does work, it does not work well. Since the second article was published, no other source has reproduced the pseudo-scientific tests, and further, credible mass-market sources have endorsed OnLive, as major game publishers have released games on OnLive and the largest North American TV manufacture, Vizio, announced it would build OnLive into TVs, blu-ray players and Android devices. With so many of the “exceptional claims” not only contradicted by the prevailing view, but grudgingly by one of the articles itself, these are articles violate WP:REDFLAG policy.
The articles take a strongly negative view in violation of WP:NPOV, they are extremely critical and at best damn with faint praise, they make personal attacks on OnLive principals, stating their claims are false, even after the second article admitted the first article’s personal attacks were unfounded, by characterizing OnLive as a hoax and its principals as making false claims, they seek to undermine the reputation of individuals and the organization.
Because these articles attack living persons, and are self-admittedly false, they violate WP:IRS and should be taken down. “Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.” Further, the articles clearly are in violation of many of the WP:IRS scholarship guidelines: “Isolated studies are usually considered tentative and may change in the light of further academic research” (these “studies” are not only isolated, but self-contradictory). These articles cite pseudo-science research as if it is real academic research, but there is no reputable peer review, no identifiable sources, and have not been accepted by the academic community. Further, these articles qualify as “Questionable sources” under WP:IRS: these articles did not check facts, lack editorial oversight and express views that are extremist in nature, making them particularly unsuitable for citing contentious claims against institutions or living persons.
Lastly, setting aside all of the deficiencies of these articles, there is no justification for having content sourced from these articles dominate the OnLive article. A Google search of “onlive” produces over 2 million web results, 193,000 blog results, and 285 News results for 2011, 2,200 News results for 2010, and 1,220 News results for 2009. Amongst all of these articles, surely we can find reliable sources that are balanced and do not resort to foul language and personal attacks.
So, even if Eurogamer is to be deemed a reliable source in general by this Wikiproject, Eurogamer’s articles about OnLive should not be deemed either reliable or appropriate sources for Wikipedia.
Createk ( talk) 06:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Propose Co-Optimus as reliable source. Editorial staff overview displayed at [28], articles have bylines, article quality looks pretty decent and I see no evidence of copypasta reposting of flack materials. Looks adequate to me. —chaos5023 ( talk) 01:58, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "Gamesauce" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo
Gamesauce ( website) is both an online and print-based magazine based in Seattle, WA; it has an industry-based 25,000 circulation, with about 1/3 of that being outside of the US. See their about us page for more information. Some of the staff have backgrounds as game developers, others are more journalism-based. The magazine typically has interviews with indie studios and contributors from those studios who write articles on game design, as well as other content. I'm looking mostly to approve this on the basis of the interviews/highlights of game studios such as their article on RedLynx, which would be a huge asset to the RedLynx article. I'd say articles by contributors should generally be avoided but can be considered on a case-by-case basis - such a case could be the possibility of a major video game designer such as Ron Gilbert or Tim Schafer contributing a retrospective article on their past games. Some realistic examples would be their interviews with Thatgamecompany's Kellee Santiago and Robin Hunicke along with bigger companies such as Gearbox Software's Steve Gibson and Bethesda Softworks's Pete Hines. -- Teancum ( talk) 16:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "ElectronicTheatere" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
I just found this, I thinking it might no be reliable but I'm not sure. What do you think? Sarujo ( talk) 12:19, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
I've always wondered: shouldn't we include web sites that don't deal with video games? IE CNN, Fox News, Yahoo!, etc.? Like with Wired, while they don't focus on video games, they clearly are verifiable, and with them added, the Google search for video game sources would be a lot more varied. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah so I just got a new magazine called Gamer in the mail. And I mean new as in its the 6th issue. Its called the offical magazine of Best Buy and I wanna know how reliable it is. GamerPro64 ( talk) 22:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
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Can we use this site? It appears they do a lot of interviews with the industry and have contacts. Google news uses them (which, while I know isn't a guarantor of reliability, does tend to lend some credit). There was only one breif discussion about it User:Jappalang was against it because he didn't think RPGamer was a RS. [29] 陣 内 Jinnai 21:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I've noticed that when searching, the search engine will never go past more than 10 pages. Is there any way to fix this? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
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the magicbox - the site seems to be a news aggregator & translation + sales chartz. There is no about page, just contact. They do say where their sales chartz come from and do seem to have ongoing sales charts from Media Create and several charts from famitsu. I'm wanting to know if they'd be viable as a good site per WP:ENGLISH. Note, while they do seem to regularly get data from media create, famitsu and others, its not clear on their yearly charts that the data is (likely) complied. 陣 内 Jinnai 03:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
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hardcoregaming101 I'm not sure if this should be listed as totally or situational, but Kurt Kalata who is a writer for Gamasutra appears to have done work on this site. I'm not sure if anyone else notable is there. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:38, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I have come across N-Sider as a source for many Nintendo-related details on Wikipedia, but despite their former partnership with IGN (resulting in these texts: [42], [43], [44], [45], [46]), I think their articles and features are to be considered unreliable as they are littered with severe mistakes, flat-out speculation and intentionally falsified information to make aforementioned speculation seem legit.
N-Sider staff writer Anthony JC seems to be the worst offender, having created the most speculative articles that pass themselves off as fact. But as the information in features is shared between items in N-Sider's database, I think it is hard to take anything from them for granted. Same goes for the articles they provided to IGN, which contain some of the mistakes and speculation shown above. Therefore, I'd limit N-Sider's reliable content to developer interviews they actually conducted themselves (in which I could not find any factual errors). I am not sure on allowing the site's game reviews since most of N-Sider's staff seems to be composed of volunteers rather than journalists (Jeffrey Van Camp is one, though I don't know if he wrote for any video game sites in a reviewing capacity). Prime Blue ( talk) 17:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
As I understand it from WP:VG/RS, Kotaku "News posts after 2010 are considered reliable. For posts before 2010, only those (significant) opinion posts that are written by established writers are allowed." What about posts during 2010? There's a lot of pieces I'd like to add to articles, but I want to clarify this before I start adding them. The wording seems a bit ambiguous in this regard. Nomader ( Talk) 10:26, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
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Personally I think it's time we revisit the rationale: "A blog network; use of this site and its affiliates should be carefully considered. Often, it is best to demonstrate the reliability of the individual authors sourced." While I understand the WP:RS rational behind blogs, in the case of sites such as Joystiq (as well as Kotaku, Destructiod, etc) a blog is merely the vehicle of delivery. The editorial process is independent of the method of delivery. While not every blog falls under this umbrella, Joystiq certainly does, having a strong team and clear editorial process. The first seven members of the team listed are industry veterans, and given their collective experience and state of the site it's clear that their editorial process is strong. Press releases, rumors, news, etc are all very clearly marked. Articles are well written and historically factual. Like any site, regardless of being a blog or not, non-newsworthy posts are occasionally made, however that's a simple WP:DUCK test. -- Teancum ( talk) 14:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Not sure at all of its notability; merely wondering if it can be used in any way for indie articles. [49] - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 09:57, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
It's been several months now when I was on arguing for a discussion of the reliability of gamrFeed and gamrReview as reliable sources. They are both part of the VGChartz Network and VGChartz has been dismissed an unreliable. I'm not asking for a re-evaluation of that. I am the editor-in-chief of the editorial sites (not the sales analysis side) and we have successfully taken the sales articles off the gamrfeed.vgchartz.com URL. They still appear on gamrFeed, but clicking them will redirect to the sales site, vgchartz.com. gamrFeed is a blog-style site with a mix of experienced and inexperienced writers, so I'm hoping for some conditional approval there. gamrReview is used on GameRankings.com and is sourced by EEDAR as well. I can also tell you the staff behind the numbers do not write any editorial content for gamrFeed or gamrReview. Thank your for your fair-minded discussion and consideration. -- Havokclix ( talk) 00:39, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
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I'd like to demote this to unreliable; the current wording is unclear why it may be suitable for older games and I doubt it would hold up in a serious FAC since the content is user generated. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to get some further discussion of AtariAge's usability as a situational source. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
This link is being disputed by editor Ryulong in this article to verify the number of Pokémon in the games; Ryulong argues that it is a bad source because the source comes from either Japanese hackers (assumed) or Serebii (assumed). However, neither assertion can be shown by the user, so I am attempting to argue that it is in violation of WP:V's rule of focusing on verifiability rather than the truth of the statement to assume that an otherwise reliable source is not reliable without evidence of this. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:05, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to get some further discussion of Nintendo Life's usability as a situational source. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
[50] - Eric Caoili is a regular contributor to both Gamasutra and Game Set Watch. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 23:16, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Can iFixit be used as a source? What about if they're citing a reference like Chipworks? Example. « ₣M₣ » 21:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
about page. I'm wondering if they would be acceptable as a WP:NEWSORG (as opposed to general SPS). They definatly seem to have some editorial oversight and are not just a "typical blog".
I ask specifically because I'd like to use this article on destructoid by one of their editors. 陣 内 Jinnai 02:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I've just started a discussion here regarding the usability of Atari HQ as a reliable source. As this is a video game related topic, a member of WPVG has asked me to post a note here as well. If you are interesting in participating, please post at the above-linked subsection rather than here so that we can keep the discussion centralized. Cheers. - Thibbs ( talk) 23:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Is this site considered unreliable? From what I've read, it produces signed, fairly objective reviews, and it's about the only secondary source about Ryzom, so I'd like to use it. Ketil ( talk) 18:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
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Seen lots of useful content from them and think they are reliable (they were previously known as Planet GameCube):
And so on. Prime Blue ( talk) 19:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't seem like there are any objections, so I'll add it in a few days. Prime Blue ( talk) 10:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
See this edit. I don't think the inclusion of GameRankings/Metacritic stats are inappropriate but user:Indrian does. Ideas? SharkD Talk 20:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
During an AfD I tried to evaluate this review at Inside Social Games, and wondered if the site could be considered reliable. About page: The founder is Justin Smith and the editor Eric Eldon. The site is part of Smith's Inside Network. Seems to have more of an industry background than the usual self-published games site. Marasmusine ( talk) 18:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
So I saw this source being used in Elaine Marley, and I was wondering exactly how reliable it was. If it is reliable, which parts (e.g. are the articles notable? If so, what about the blogs?) If at least some of it is reliable, then great, as we can add it to a bunch of other articles for reception and help booster notability. Harry Blue5 ( talk) 08:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
[87] - I'm reviewing Neutopia for GA, and that source is currently the only issue. It has some editorial oversight - listing expectations of quality from their contributors - but none of the contributors seems especially reliable. And it's a damn shame to lose the source, since it seems like a good one for obscure consoles like the TurboGrafx. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Find video game sources: "NowGamer" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo
Example links. NowGamer is a site that does reviews, previews, news, features and other stuff. According to their review section "All the reviews on NowGamer.com are written by experienced professional games experts who live, sleep and breathe games for every format and for the last 25 years". Examples of some writers include Adam Barnes and Dave Cook, just in case those names mean anything to anybody. Is this site reliable? Harry Blue5 ( talk • contribs) 14:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Just revitalizing discussion on whether jayisgames.com can be used as a reliable source. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 00:25, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
[88] - Site has several notable gaming industry personalities, as well as an editor-in-chief who has contributed to other notable websites, including The New York Times. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 03:57, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Just posting this link. Good to see that they constantly review their sources, and are on the look out for anything dodgy. Link - X201 ( talk) 10:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
For PC games, what sources are favored in citing those games' system requirements? This information is typically included on the packaging of games sold at retail, and for those types of games, this is one situation where I believe the game itself could serve as a reliable source. For games that are distributed digitally, the requirements are usually listed on the distributor's site. However, many online games receive ongoing updates that change the system requirements over time. Would the developer's web site, even though it is self published, be the most reliable source in these cases? --Jt12852 07:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jt12852 ( talk • contribs)
Bringing up Original Sound Version as reliable, because it is a very useful source for video game music-related topics. They provide interviews, news reports and reviews. Don't let the blog-like format scare you off – founder Jayson Napolitano was a staff writer for the reliable Music4Games, and conducted interviews for the site.
Content from Original Sound Version has been cited by:
Prime Blue ( talk) 12:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
Can this site I just found today be reliable? Sarujo ( talk) 06:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
I recently used the VG Google Search and it kicked out a TopTenReviews page: [103] - an editorial review. The site is currently listed as "unreliable" with the comment "Site was deemed to be unreliable as only usage of them is from forum posts and the like and there is no clear strong editorial oversight." and prior discussion here only addresses their use as a aggregate site. Since this review is neither a forum post or an aggregate score, and our custom search picked up on it, perhaps we should clarify? Marasmusine ( talk) 09:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Upon doing research for an article, I happened upon this site. I not familiar with staff, so what's the verdict? Sarujo ( talk) 23:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
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I'd like to propose moving Gamefaqs from the "situational sources" section to the "unreliable sources" section per this discussion on WT:VG a while ago. In summary Gamefaqs is currently allowed to be cited only for release info, but there is little evidence that their user-submitted info is checked for accuracy as they claim, and I think there is enough evidence that this fact-checking is simply not happening. There were suggestions in that discussion that the level of inaccuracy was due to the age of the games in question, and that the supposed higher accuracy of more recent games makes up for it. If it's true that newer games' (surely more likely to have non-Gamefaqs sources available anyway?) info is more accurate, then Gamefaqs is picking and choosing which games are worthy of fact-checking with criteria that are not known to us, so we have no way of knowing where their "accuracy line" is drawn, if anywhere. At the least I think a cut-off point should be made where Gamefaqs is not considered reliable for games over a certain age. However, I'd prefer that it be deemed unreliable altogether, as I think for a site that is already considered unreliable for everything else, it should really pull out the stops to justify its exceptional status for dates, but it doesn't. I would hope that an "unreliable" status for Gamefaqs would improve sourcing by encouraging editors to find better sources for these dates. Thanks, Miremare 20:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Demoted. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
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Previous discussion did not get any replies, so I'm bringing it up again. I still think it is a big problem that the site causes misinformation to be included in so many video game articles.
I have come across N-Sider as a source for many Nintendo-related details on Wikipedia, but despite their former partnership with IGN (resulting in these features: [111], [112], [113], [114], [115]), I think their articles and features are to be considered unreliable as they are littered with severe mistakes, flat-out speculation and intentionally falsified information to make aforementioned speculation seem legit.
N-Sider staff writer Anthony JC seems to be the worst offender, having created the most speculative articles that pass themselves off as fact. But as the information in features is shared between items in N-Sider's database, I think it is hard to take anything from them for granted. Same goes for the articles they provided to IGN, which contain some of the mistakes and speculation shown above. Therefore, I'd limit N-Sider's reliable content to developer interviews they actually conducted themselves (in which I could not find any factual errors). I am not sure on allowing the site's game reviews since most of N-Sider's staff seems to be composed of volunteers rather than journalists (Jeffrey Van Camp is one, though I don't know if he wrote for any video game sites in a reviewing capacity). Prime Blue ( talk) 13:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Demoted. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)