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The purpose of this discussion page is to select 10,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles. All Wikipedia editors are welcome to participate. Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting. It is also possible to propose a swap of a new topic for a lower-priority topic already on the list.
All level 4 nominations must be of an article already listed at level 5.
All proposals must remain open for !voting for a minimum of 15 days, after which:
Nominations should be left open beyond the minimum if they have a reasonable chance of passing. An informed discussion with more editor participation produces an improved and more stable final list, so be patient with the process.
When you are making a decision whether to add or remove a particular topic from the Vital Articles Level 4 list, we strongly recommend that you review and compare the other topics in the same category in order to get a better sense of what other topics are considered vital in that area. We have linked the sublists at the top of each proposal area.
For reference, the following times apply for today:
Gaborone 4 and Windhoek 4 are significantly smaller cities in smaller countries than Bangui 5 and Nouakchott 5. The current listing is a result of bias against CAR and Mauritania, less generally visible African countries in English media than Botswana and Namibia.
The opposite of Mobile phone 3. Has historical significance though not as common as it used to be. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Seems to be the right place for them. They are there at level 5. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Scams involve over a trillion dollars each year, and are here to stay.
SP was unfairly removed for being “redundant” to the city, which is V3 ( São Paulo 3). SP has a higher population than any U.S. state by over 3 million, and if anything, MG is more redundant to Belo Horizonte 4. Vileplume ( talk) 22:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Histories of two high population non-Western countries that would help reduce sysbias. Vileplume ( talk) 23:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
We got to have more rappers than just Tupac Shakur. Hip-hop just celebrated its 50th anniversary last year, and it’s one of the biggest genres in the world right now. It is certainly more popular than country or (European) folk, which we decided for each genre to list three of its musicians on here (four if you count Bob Dylan and to a much lesser extent Taylor Swift). I think we need at least two more hip-hop musicians on here.
Run-DMC is probably the easiest group we can promote. They are frequently called “the Beatles of hip-hop”, and for good reason. Besides being the first rappers to have their videos played on MTV and be featured on the cover of Rolling Stone, they are also the first hip-hop act to go gold, platinum, and multi-platinum. Not only that, they are arguably single-handily responsible for transforming hip-hop from old-school to new-school, with not just their music (rejecting the disco-driven party anthems in favor of hard-edge rhymes and drum machine-heavy beats) but even with the way they dress. (Before, rappers used to wear dramatic, flashy outfits when performing. Run-DMC eschewed that with, well, regular street clothes, including most famously Adidas shoes.)
Now, I would prefer if we just add these guys, but I understand if we need to swap someone out in order to include them. Baez is probably the least vital person in country and folk. For one, we have her former boyfriend, Bob Dylan. I know he’s listed under rock, but unlike Swift who has abandoned country completely, Dylan’s music by in large still has some folk elements to it. More importantly however, she is just largely not known as a songwriter. For folk musicians, especially contemporary ones, singing your own compositions is pretty big deal, and while she has written her own material, they are not on par with those of Woody Guthrie and Joni Mitchell.
I will admit that it took me quite a while to come up with another person to promote to Level 4. I ultimately decided to nominate Ye, but if someone thinks that there’s a better person to promote, feel free to speak up. West is usually held to be one of the hip hop musicians of all time. Maybe not as a rapper, but definitely as a producer. Six of his albums are on the latest version of Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. Him beating 50 Cent on the album charts with his third album is usually held to bring end of gangsta rap-era of hip hop.
Again, I understand if we need to swap someone before we include him. Again, I don’t think country and folk needs that many people, and after Baez, Dolly Parton is probably the least vital. However, I am open to swapping West with Buddy Holly. We got plenty of rockers, and while his death is tragic, I don’t think his music or status as an icon is as revolutionary or as big as Nirvana.
The best selling hip hop artist is Eminem 5, who also ranks higher than Ye in the Billboard and Vibe's 50 Greatest Rappers of All Time. I think he is ahead of Ye. Run DMC is significant for different reasons though as early pioneers and it's harder to compare them with contemporary rappers. Gizza ( talk) 23:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
As the branch of Christianity with the most followers, it makes sense to include this. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This was noted as a possible addition to VA4 when I proposed LGBT history 5 at VA5 (because LGBT history in the United States 5 was already listed but not that.. go figure), but since then I also noticed that BDSM 4 was VA4 but not LGBT, which is much more socially significant as the general umbrella term for minority sexual orientations or gender identity. We do already list Homosexuality 4, Bisexuality 4 and others here but I don't think this is redundant due to its commonality and widespread usage in social discourse, and as a societally constructed grouping.
Key economic concept that we interact with very commonly (just promoted to V5). 75 interwikis. starship .paint ( RUN) 01:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Canada is overrepresented in the country subdivision section for a county of 40 million. Ontario and Quebec are obviously vital, but the other two have insufficient populations and meh economies for V4. I also proposed the removal of Alberta above.
Ohio is a leading U.S. state historically, demographically, and economically. We list the top six in the latter two, and Ohio ranks seventh. Interwikis are 137-194, daily views are 3042-4099. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 23:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Spain looks a bit underrepresented with only five cities compared to Poland and Ukraine getting six each. Bilbao has a metro area of over a million, more than 50% larger than Zaragoza 4 and the largest city in Northern Spain, and particularly the Basque Country (autonomous community) 4. I'd also add Lille 5, but France is already well-represented. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 00:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Remains an inescapable concept in the way we talk about music.
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This topic on a textile does not appear important enough at this level. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Support
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This topic is on the science of Agriculture 2, so there should be considerable overlap with that. The Agronomy article is sparse, and so is agricultural science. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This is a sparse article that does not appear important enough at this level. Compare with Intensive farming 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This is the third largest hydroelectric dam in the world, which produces the second most hydroelectric energy, but it has been eclipsed in both regards by the Three Gorges Dam 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
outmuscling Itaipu by 50%. starship .paint ( RUN) 08:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. This was big in its heyday in the 1930s, but seems to have been eclipsed in all regards today. Not sure if it would be listed if it was not American. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
most iconic dam in history, Guardian just says iconic and Interesting Engineering says one of the most iconic. starship .paint ( RUN) 03:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Hoover Dam in the USA is probably one of the most iconic of all damsin it header? thanks. Aszx5000 ( talk) 08:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
the most iconic dam in history. It's like CNN saying Elizabeth II was probably one of the most photographed women in history, but me claiming Elizabeth was the most photographed woman in history. starship .paint ( RUN) 15:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. The addition of this dialysis article could have been a mistake, perhaps the intended target was Kidney dialysis. Either way this should be removed. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Society and social sciences is at 27 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. This is a sparse article on a subset of Anthropology 3. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Physical sciences is at 1 article over quota. This is a sparse article on rocks that seems more suitable for V5. We already list Stratigraphy 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Setting aside on whether we should place the Sufis in their own separate section, why is he not under the Sunni section? Wahhabism is very strictly a Sunni thing.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In the Level 5 people pages, George Gershwin is under the Western art music section. And yeah, I think that's a more suitable place for him. I think the general consensus regarding him is that he is a classical composer who has a lot of jazz elements in his work.
I feel like we list a bunch of US presidents at this level. I’m sure that is not surprising as the US has been a dominant world power for decades. Some presidents are obviously vital like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, Eisenhower, and Reagan as their legacies seemed to have been settled at this point. We also list three consecutive recent presidents, Bush, Obama, and Trump so I don’t know if recentism is an issue here. I know scholarly rankings don’t give a complete answer as to what makes a president vital as Trump, Nixon, Bush, and Jackson are listed that had far from stellar terms as president. I would like to gather input from other editors as to what makes a president vital. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
First off, why only question the vitality of U.S. presidents? Why not also question American activists in the same breadth? Or politicians from other countries? Yes, we have 19 U.S. presidents, plus 2 Native American chiefs and 7 Americans who weren't president (two, J. Edgar Hoover and John Marshall, are listed in an area other than politicians at VA5). This group of 28 leaders has had considerably more scrutiny than any part of the VA4 of comparable size; subjecting the entire people list to such scrutiny would have resulted in hundreds of discussions. There are a few American leaders I question the vitality of; I even nominated JFK and Bush 43 for removal from the list but lost those votes. For most of the rest of them, I can and have given individual rationales. I can also give rationales for a few gentlemen (such as John Quincy Adams), who are NOT listed.
Of 28 American politicians, half served in government later than 1900, which is around when the United States became a world power. Around half of those (depending where you classify J. Edgar Hoover) served during the Cold War era between 1945 and 1991. Of the 14 before 1900, almost half were the “Founding Fathers” that fought the Revolution, created the country’s founding documents, and served in the first 28 years of the presidency. The most poorly-represented eras in American history are the post-bellum “Gilded Age” era and the colonial era, the former because it was an era of political paralysis and the latter because the United States was sparsely populated by white man and was ruled by European nations. There’s some concern about having three 21st century presidents, but that is balanced out by Bush 41, Clinton and Biden NOT being on VA4 (although Biden should get a VA4 discussion if he's re-elected).
There are several representatives of both the Democratic and Republican Parties, as well as representatives of the Federalist, Democratic-Republican and Whig Parties. The U.S. is a democracy without houses or dynasties…but don’t tell that to the Adams, Roosevelt, Kennedy and Bush families, all of whom are represented at VA4.
There is no single criteria for an American politician to be listed at VA4, nor should there be. However, here are some things:
Recently added at VA5, worth discussion here I reckon.
Why isn't he under writers? SailorGardevoir ( talk) 20:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
the first author in all history to bring himself into his own composition.starship .paint ( RUN) 12:19, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
OK, this is now officially a move discussion. Other than the Ramayana 4 being an important Hindu text, there doesn't seem to be any rationale for why he's under religious figures and not writers.
Much fewer interwikis than all the other engineering articles listed there (this has 20, the second lowest has 37, the highest has 101). We're over quota in total V4 and V4 Technology. starship .paint ( RUN) 08:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
The precursor to Book 2 that was used for centuries, is still used by the Jewish, and has a lot of pop culture influence.
So I did a little shuffling in the level 5 philosophy and religion page, and I would like to apply it here. I would also like to move some stuff in the Arts page.
The concept itself should be placed here. Let's reserve the mythological creatures section for specific beasts.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Same thing with this one. While this and the next proposal will leave the mythological places section with only Atlantis and El Dorado, I still think that section should just be reserved for actual places.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I placed it under mythology: general for now in the Level 5 page, but this is more of a fictional setting type of thing. (Or possibly a philosophical type of thing.)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
These articles are entirely written to be about the short stories, not the titular characters.
General concept article. Everything else besides this and the two articles I mentioned are specific characters.
The names "Devil" and "Satan" has frequently been used interchangeably to describe the same entity, while tradition holds Lilith to be the first female demon.
I have seen a lot of people consider the leprechaun as some type of fairy.
Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Biology and health sciences is at 1481/1500. I propose to lower the quota to 1480. Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Technology is at 744/700. I propose to increase the quota to 720. I've looked through the whole list and I am not sure what else to remove from Technology, if you oppose this, please help remove something. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I think Climbing 5 is at least Level 4. It is the head topic for the established Level 4 sub-topics of Mountaineering 4 and of Rock climbing 4, as well as other Level 5s (e.g. Sport climbing 5). It also includes the Olympic sport of climbing, which is Competition climbing, and should itself be at VA 5 (there are other climbing sub-topics which should also be VA 5). Climbing is equivalent to other Level 3 R&E topics such as Swimming 3. I think Climbing should ultimately be Level 3 but it must get to Level 4 first. Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Smilodon isn't really more taxonomically significant compared to other machairodontines like Machairodus which has an older taxonomic history and is the defining type genus. While it may be the most culturally significant one based on stereotypical machairodontine designs, there's not much strong indication that people are necessarily familiar with the specific genus. Level 5 should suit it fine. PrimalMustelid ( talk) 17:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
We don't include any people known for Skateboarding 4 in VA4, but we do have two for Speed skating 4 so I believe we should have at least one or two. The easiest suggestion is Tony Hawk or Rodney Mullen. Rodney Mullen is known as "the godfather of skateboarding." He created multiple skateboarding tricks, such as the flatground ollie, kickflip, heelflip, etc. (which are considered the basis of skateboarding) Tony Hawk is much more known for his work in the media. He performed the first ever " 900," (where many people doubted the possibility of it happening) had a popular game series of his own name, and pioneered vertical skateboarding. Hawk is arguably the most known figure in skateboarding, but Mullen is possibly the most influential in skateboarding. I'm fine with adding either or both.
Per Landline discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 12:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I feel this is closer to level 3 than to level 5 since it is more common these days. I think level 4 is sufficient for this article. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Reading this list (specifically Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Arts) made me notice that we list no examples of television series at V4. I feel that, if we list any video game related subjects here and around 33 films, there's probably room for a few TV series, even more so since Arts is technically 25 articles under its quota. Is there a specific reason why none are listed? λ Negative MP1 23:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Should be on the same level as Public transport which is an important type of transit. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't really think this is going to be a controversial proposal, but I'm still going to state my reasoning. We list only one animated film at Level 4, which for as big of a scope Animation 3 is, there is almost certainly room for a second example, especially one like this that basically began a type of animation. Toy Story is objectively one of the important feature animated films ever made, possibly comparable in influence to Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film) 4. It pioneered a type of animation that will almost certainly never fall out of style, that being Computer animation 5. It is also considered one of the best films of all time, and in my opinion, we can fit another film from under the Disney banner due to how influential the company is. In my opinion, this film is over-qualified for Level 4. I'd propose a swap, but Arts is technically under-quota and I don't believe I'm in the right place to propose a swap with something outside of that section due to my lack of knowledge on the influence of other subjects.
Am convinced that this is vital, second in animated films and more vital than the video games nominated below, but I'm pretty sure the latest V4 entry is
Star Wars
4. We might need a more general discussion.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk)
23:04, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since my recent nomination to try and remove Tetris 4 failed, and I stopped agreeing with it myself after a while, I thought about the question of if any video games and/or franchises could meet the V4 criteria or not. While the pool is below ten, I think it narrowly is a yes. So I'm creating nominations for five standout games/series that had an undeniable impact on pop culture that goes well beyond video games alone, each having similar cultural consciousness to Tetris. I'm also prefering to propose franchises here, as for broadness. No swaps are being proposed here per similar reasons to why I didn't suggest any when nominating Toy Story, though anyone is free to suggest them.
One final note: I'm not saying all of these deserve to be added, but rather they are probably the best choices for V4, and I still maintain that Tetris 4 should not be the only V4 game. If some (or even all) fail, whatever. Without further ado... λ Negative MP1 20:37, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
An extremely popular and important Arcade game 4. In-fact, it's probably the most iconic and important one, possibly even more than Pong 5. Hell, the titular character is more considered recognizable than Mario 4. This game is easily on the same level as Tetris 4.
I'm not really sure if this one needs any further explanation. This franchise arguably saved video games in the west and created a cultural icon we already list at V4 Mario 4. The franchise is absolutely important and is generally what people think of when they think of a "video game." In a way, Mario is video games.
Similar to Super Mario, but on an ever so slightly smaller scale. This franchise is home to some of the highest rated video games of all time, including THE highest rated game of all time. It'd take more than one hand to count the times this franchise has changed video games and pop culture as a whole. Also, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 5 in particular I feel like could be considered the video game equivalent of Citizen Kane 4.
An absolutely massive game that completely changed the way video games were percieved by the world. It shifted the ways people thought video games could be, and may as well be the whole reason why some people think video games cause violence ( an example). It is to this day still considered one of the most important games ever made. And for more video game based details, it popularized 3D games, changed the way video games were manufactured, and the ways multiplayer was viewed. And if this holds any weight, its the only game proposed here directly considered part of the Game canon.
Previously failed here.-- LaukkuTheGreit ( Talk• Contribs) 07:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
An infamous franchise that I'm sure most people are aware of that changed the gaming industry (and public views on what media could be) time after time again. Games like Grand Theft Auto are probably the second most common view by the general public of what video games are, behind Super Mario.
I'm also going to make it clear that I thought about this for a few days on what games were objectively the most important. Other ones that I considered but intentionally did not nominate include the following: Final Fantasy 5, Minecraft 5 (failed recently), Pong 5 (previously removed), Call of Duty 5, and Space Invaders 5. λ Negative MP1 20:37, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
We don't list Brother 5 or Sister 5 when we list Sibling 4. I feel it would make sense to swap these two out. I might also consider removing either Parent 4 or both Father 4 and Mother 4. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Related discussion: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/Society#Add_Coup_d’etat
I am nominating this here although it isn't quite level 5 yet and will very likely be so once the discussion closes. There was also support to add this article to level 4 in that discussion and I think starting this discussion now is probably sufficient. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
We don't list the opposite which is Deposition (phase transition) so it would probably make sense to remove at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
The article was merged into Moggy 4, which has no interwikis. The content on "domestic short-haired cat" is less than 260 words. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
It is one type of Herding dog 4, which is already V4. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
This is an important state we don't list. It is higher in population and is similar in GDP to other states in India. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:29, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
There seems to be an issue with trying to reach quota. I was figuring that the way to solve this is to only allow additions if we are under quota and removals if we are over quota so that we can reach a reasonable compromise on what articles we can add and remove. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
I know we list Human behavior at L3, I think adding this article to level 4 would be helpful since it is important to cover the behavior of other organisms. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to move interwikis? Someone just did a bold merge with both domestic short-haired cat and domestic long-haired cat to moggy, and now all the original interwikis for both pages are sitting at redirect pages. SailorGardevoir ( talk) 10:26, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
I don't think it makes sense to list cousin when we don't list Uncle 5 or Aunt 5. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:58, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota in Level 4 and Booting 4 is nowhere near as important as other computer topics at this level. Given the rise of flash memory chips and instantaneous-booting, I am not sure that this is even a level 5 topic. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:38, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
These terms are important relatives of the family. They are a big part of many families. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
The opposite of Father and Mother, these should be listed since these are part of almost every family. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Similar to how we list Father and Mother, I see no issue with listing these two terms. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
We list anarchism, but not this article. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
We list the Chinese Communist Party 4 at this level, so it make sense to add the two major political parties in the US at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Per suggestion in Anarchy discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
A common concept which is a subtopic of suicide. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
May be a better addition than nonbinary. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Yes, Tyre is a historical city and appears in ancient history. It is one of the oldest continously inhabited cities, but it is continously inhabited, even today. We do list other ancient cities like Alexandria 4 and Syracuse, Sicily 4 in the Geography section, so I can't see why we shouldn't list Tyre there as well.
Just added to L5, might be worthy of L4. Interstellarity ( talk) 20:00, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
The major war of the last twenty years, it have a major impact on the global economy.
We use these everyday. Interstellarity ( talk) 15:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
We list Great Pyramid of Giza at level 3, so I think it makes sense to list this at level 4. Interstellarity ( talk) 12:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, the last thing we need is more rockers, but as you can see through this link, we don't have anyone from the alternative or punk scene. To me, this is a glaring omission, especially when it comes to alternative rock which has arguably been the main form of rock since it broke through. And no, the Velvet Underground does not count for either subgenre; alternative deserves to have someone whose music was made after the initial punk wave, while your average person is probably more likely to categorize VU as art/ experimental rock than proto-punk.
For alternative, I'm just going to go with the most obvious candidate. Although R.E.M. were technically the one who demonstrated the commercial viability of alternative rock with Out of Time (they're also usually held to be one of the first alt rock band), most people consider Smells Like Teen Spirit 5 to be thing that truly pushed alternative into the mainstream. There's also the whole "voice of the generation" personality cult that surrounds Kurt Cobain 5.
For punk, I'm not going to lie; it is kind of weird to nominate a band that's usually held to only have one album. But these guys played a huge rule in both spearheading the British punk scene and in shaping punk fashion. They also possess a notoriety that none of the other punk rockers really have.
The fertile crescent in the Near East is more a region that's relevant in geography even today, rather than a historical concept that happened in the past. The article even talks about biodiversity and climate before its history. So I'm proposing moving it away from Ancient History to Regions and country subdivisions.
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The purpose of this discussion page is to select 10,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles. All Wikipedia editors are welcome to participate. Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting. It is also possible to propose a swap of a new topic for a lower-priority topic already on the list.
All level 4 nominations must be of an article already listed at level 5.
All proposals must remain open for !voting for a minimum of 15 days, after which:
Nominations should be left open beyond the minimum if they have a reasonable chance of passing. An informed discussion with more editor participation produces an improved and more stable final list, so be patient with the process.
When you are making a decision whether to add or remove a particular topic from the Vital Articles Level 4 list, we strongly recommend that you review and compare the other topics in the same category in order to get a better sense of what other topics are considered vital in that area. We have linked the sublists at the top of each proposal area.
For reference, the following times apply for today:
Gaborone 4 and Windhoek 4 are significantly smaller cities in smaller countries than Bangui 5 and Nouakchott 5. The current listing is a result of bias against CAR and Mauritania, less generally visible African countries in English media than Botswana and Namibia.
The opposite of Mobile phone 3. Has historical significance though not as common as it used to be. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Seems to be the right place for them. They are there at level 5. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Scams involve over a trillion dollars each year, and are here to stay.
SP was unfairly removed for being “redundant” to the city, which is V3 ( São Paulo 3). SP has a higher population than any U.S. state by over 3 million, and if anything, MG is more redundant to Belo Horizonte 4. Vileplume ( talk) 22:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Histories of two high population non-Western countries that would help reduce sysbias. Vileplume ( talk) 23:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
We got to have more rappers than just Tupac Shakur. Hip-hop just celebrated its 50th anniversary last year, and it’s one of the biggest genres in the world right now. It is certainly more popular than country or (European) folk, which we decided for each genre to list three of its musicians on here (four if you count Bob Dylan and to a much lesser extent Taylor Swift). I think we need at least two more hip-hop musicians on here.
Run-DMC is probably the easiest group we can promote. They are frequently called “the Beatles of hip-hop”, and for good reason. Besides being the first rappers to have their videos played on MTV and be featured on the cover of Rolling Stone, they are also the first hip-hop act to go gold, platinum, and multi-platinum. Not only that, they are arguably single-handily responsible for transforming hip-hop from old-school to new-school, with not just their music (rejecting the disco-driven party anthems in favor of hard-edge rhymes and drum machine-heavy beats) but even with the way they dress. (Before, rappers used to wear dramatic, flashy outfits when performing. Run-DMC eschewed that with, well, regular street clothes, including most famously Adidas shoes.)
Now, I would prefer if we just add these guys, but I understand if we need to swap someone out in order to include them. Baez is probably the least vital person in country and folk. For one, we have her former boyfriend, Bob Dylan. I know he’s listed under rock, but unlike Swift who has abandoned country completely, Dylan’s music by in large still has some folk elements to it. More importantly however, she is just largely not known as a songwriter. For folk musicians, especially contemporary ones, singing your own compositions is pretty big deal, and while she has written her own material, they are not on par with those of Woody Guthrie and Joni Mitchell.
I will admit that it took me quite a while to come up with another person to promote to Level 4. I ultimately decided to nominate Ye, but if someone thinks that there’s a better person to promote, feel free to speak up. West is usually held to be one of the hip hop musicians of all time. Maybe not as a rapper, but definitely as a producer. Six of his albums are on the latest version of Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. Him beating 50 Cent on the album charts with his third album is usually held to bring end of gangsta rap-era of hip hop.
Again, I understand if we need to swap someone before we include him. Again, I don’t think country and folk needs that many people, and after Baez, Dolly Parton is probably the least vital. However, I am open to swapping West with Buddy Holly. We got plenty of rockers, and while his death is tragic, I don’t think his music or status as an icon is as revolutionary or as big as Nirvana.
The best selling hip hop artist is Eminem 5, who also ranks higher than Ye in the Billboard and Vibe's 50 Greatest Rappers of All Time. I think he is ahead of Ye. Run DMC is significant for different reasons though as early pioneers and it's harder to compare them with contemporary rappers. Gizza ( talk) 23:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
As the branch of Christianity with the most followers, it makes sense to include this. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This was noted as a possible addition to VA4 when I proposed LGBT history 5 at VA5 (because LGBT history in the United States 5 was already listed but not that.. go figure), but since then I also noticed that BDSM 4 was VA4 but not LGBT, which is much more socially significant as the general umbrella term for minority sexual orientations or gender identity. We do already list Homosexuality 4, Bisexuality 4 and others here but I don't think this is redundant due to its commonality and widespread usage in social discourse, and as a societally constructed grouping.
Key economic concept that we interact with very commonly (just promoted to V5). 75 interwikis. starship .paint ( RUN) 01:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Canada is overrepresented in the country subdivision section for a county of 40 million. Ontario and Quebec are obviously vital, but the other two have insufficient populations and meh economies for V4. I also proposed the removal of Alberta above.
Ohio is a leading U.S. state historically, demographically, and economically. We list the top six in the latter two, and Ohio ranks seventh. Interwikis are 137-194, daily views are 3042-4099. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 23:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Spain looks a bit underrepresented with only five cities compared to Poland and Ukraine getting six each. Bilbao has a metro area of over a million, more than 50% larger than Zaragoza 4 and the largest city in Northern Spain, and particularly the Basque Country (autonomous community) 4. I'd also add Lille 5, but France is already well-represented. Vileplume 🍋🟩 ( talk) 00:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Remains an inescapable concept in the way we talk about music.
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Everyday life is at 23 articles over quota. This is a niche sport more suitable for V5, I believe. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This topic on a textile does not appear important enough at this level. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Support
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This topic is on the science of Agriculture 2, so there should be considerable overlap with that. The Agronomy article is sparse, and so is agricultural science. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This is a sparse article that does not appear important enough at this level. Compare with Intensive farming 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota. This is the third largest hydroelectric dam in the world, which produces the second most hydroelectric energy, but it has been eclipsed in both regards by the Three Gorges Dam 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
outmuscling Itaipu by 50%. starship .paint ( RUN) 08:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. This was big in its heyday in the 1930s, but seems to have been eclipsed in all regards today. Not sure if it would be listed if it was not American. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
most iconic dam in history, Guardian just says iconic and Interesting Engineering says one of the most iconic. starship .paint ( RUN) 03:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Hoover Dam in the USA is probably one of the most iconic of all damsin it header? thanks. Aszx5000 ( talk) 08:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
the most iconic dam in history. It's like CNN saying Elizabeth II was probably one of the most photographed women in history, but me claiming Elizabeth was the most photographed woman in history. starship .paint ( RUN) 15:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Technology is at 44 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. The addition of this dialysis article could have been a mistake, perhaps the intended target was Kidney dialysis. Either way this should be removed. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Society and social sciences is at 27 articles over quota, so we've got to take action. This is a sparse article on a subset of Anthropology 3. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
VA4 is at 21 articles over quota, VA4 Physical sciences is at 1 article over quota. This is a sparse article on rocks that seems more suitable for V5. We already list Stratigraphy 4. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Setting aside on whether we should place the Sufis in their own separate section, why is he not under the Sunni section? Wahhabism is very strictly a Sunni thing.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In the Level 5 people pages, George Gershwin is under the Western art music section. And yeah, I think that's a more suitable place for him. I think the general consensus regarding him is that he is a classical composer who has a lot of jazz elements in his work.
I feel like we list a bunch of US presidents at this level. I’m sure that is not surprising as the US has been a dominant world power for decades. Some presidents are obviously vital like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, Eisenhower, and Reagan as their legacies seemed to have been settled at this point. We also list three consecutive recent presidents, Bush, Obama, and Trump so I don’t know if recentism is an issue here. I know scholarly rankings don’t give a complete answer as to what makes a president vital as Trump, Nixon, Bush, and Jackson are listed that had far from stellar terms as president. I would like to gather input from other editors as to what makes a president vital. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
First off, why only question the vitality of U.S. presidents? Why not also question American activists in the same breadth? Or politicians from other countries? Yes, we have 19 U.S. presidents, plus 2 Native American chiefs and 7 Americans who weren't president (two, J. Edgar Hoover and John Marshall, are listed in an area other than politicians at VA5). This group of 28 leaders has had considerably more scrutiny than any part of the VA4 of comparable size; subjecting the entire people list to such scrutiny would have resulted in hundreds of discussions. There are a few American leaders I question the vitality of; I even nominated JFK and Bush 43 for removal from the list but lost those votes. For most of the rest of them, I can and have given individual rationales. I can also give rationales for a few gentlemen (such as John Quincy Adams), who are NOT listed.
Of 28 American politicians, half served in government later than 1900, which is around when the United States became a world power. Around half of those (depending where you classify J. Edgar Hoover) served during the Cold War era between 1945 and 1991. Of the 14 before 1900, almost half were the “Founding Fathers” that fought the Revolution, created the country’s founding documents, and served in the first 28 years of the presidency. The most poorly-represented eras in American history are the post-bellum “Gilded Age” era and the colonial era, the former because it was an era of political paralysis and the latter because the United States was sparsely populated by white man and was ruled by European nations. There’s some concern about having three 21st century presidents, but that is balanced out by Bush 41, Clinton and Biden NOT being on VA4 (although Biden should get a VA4 discussion if he's re-elected).
There are several representatives of both the Democratic and Republican Parties, as well as representatives of the Federalist, Democratic-Republican and Whig Parties. The U.S. is a democracy without houses or dynasties…but don’t tell that to the Adams, Roosevelt, Kennedy and Bush families, all of whom are represented at VA4.
There is no single criteria for an American politician to be listed at VA4, nor should there be. However, here are some things:
Recently added at VA5, worth discussion here I reckon.
Why isn't he under writers? SailorGardevoir ( talk) 20:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
the first author in all history to bring himself into his own composition.starship .paint ( RUN) 12:19, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
OK, this is now officially a move discussion. Other than the Ramayana 4 being an important Hindu text, there doesn't seem to be any rationale for why he's under religious figures and not writers.
Much fewer interwikis than all the other engineering articles listed there (this has 20, the second lowest has 37, the highest has 101). We're over quota in total V4 and V4 Technology. starship .paint ( RUN) 08:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
The precursor to Book 2 that was used for centuries, is still used by the Jewish, and has a lot of pop culture influence.
So I did a little shuffling in the level 5 philosophy and religion page, and I would like to apply it here. I would also like to move some stuff in the Arts page.
The concept itself should be placed here. Let's reserve the mythological creatures section for specific beasts.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Same thing with this one. While this and the next proposal will leave the mythological places section with only Atlantis and El Dorado, I still think that section should just be reserved for actual places.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I placed it under mythology: general for now in the Level 5 page, but this is more of a fictional setting type of thing. (Or possibly a philosophical type of thing.)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
These articles are entirely written to be about the short stories, not the titular characters.
General concept article. Everything else besides this and the two articles I mentioned are specific characters.
The names "Devil" and "Satan" has frequently been used interchangeably to describe the same entity, while tradition holds Lilith to be the first female demon.
I have seen a lot of people consider the leprechaun as some type of fairy.
Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Biology and health sciences is at 1481/1500. I propose to lower the quota to 1480. Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Technology is at 744/700. I propose to increase the quota to 720. I've looked through the whole list and I am not sure what else to remove from Technology, if you oppose this, please help remove something. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I think Climbing 5 is at least Level 4. It is the head topic for the established Level 4 sub-topics of Mountaineering 4 and of Rock climbing 4, as well as other Level 5s (e.g. Sport climbing 5). It also includes the Olympic sport of climbing, which is Competition climbing, and should itself be at VA 5 (there are other climbing sub-topics which should also be VA 5). Climbing is equivalent to other Level 3 R&E topics such as Swimming 3. I think Climbing should ultimately be Level 3 but it must get to Level 4 first. Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Smilodon isn't really more taxonomically significant compared to other machairodontines like Machairodus which has an older taxonomic history and is the defining type genus. While it may be the most culturally significant one based on stereotypical machairodontine designs, there's not much strong indication that people are necessarily familiar with the specific genus. Level 5 should suit it fine. PrimalMustelid ( talk) 17:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
We don't include any people known for Skateboarding 4 in VA4, but we do have two for Speed skating 4 so I believe we should have at least one or two. The easiest suggestion is Tony Hawk or Rodney Mullen. Rodney Mullen is known as "the godfather of skateboarding." He created multiple skateboarding tricks, such as the flatground ollie, kickflip, heelflip, etc. (which are considered the basis of skateboarding) Tony Hawk is much more known for his work in the media. He performed the first ever " 900," (where many people doubted the possibility of it happening) had a popular game series of his own name, and pioneered vertical skateboarding. Hawk is arguably the most known figure in skateboarding, but Mullen is possibly the most influential in skateboarding. I'm fine with adding either or both.
Per Landline discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 12:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I feel this is closer to level 3 than to level 5 since it is more common these days. I think level 4 is sufficient for this article. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Reading this list (specifically Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Arts) made me notice that we list no examples of television series at V4. I feel that, if we list any video game related subjects here and around 33 films, there's probably room for a few TV series, even more so since Arts is technically 25 articles under its quota. Is there a specific reason why none are listed? λ Negative MP1 23:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Should be on the same level as Public transport which is an important type of transit. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't really think this is going to be a controversial proposal, but I'm still going to state my reasoning. We list only one animated film at Level 4, which for as big of a scope Animation 3 is, there is almost certainly room for a second example, especially one like this that basically began a type of animation. Toy Story is objectively one of the important feature animated films ever made, possibly comparable in influence to Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film) 4. It pioneered a type of animation that will almost certainly never fall out of style, that being Computer animation 5. It is also considered one of the best films of all time, and in my opinion, we can fit another film from under the Disney banner due to how influential the company is. In my opinion, this film is over-qualified for Level 4. I'd propose a swap, but Arts is technically under-quota and I don't believe I'm in the right place to propose a swap with something outside of that section due to my lack of knowledge on the influence of other subjects.
Am convinced that this is vital, second in animated films and more vital than the video games nominated below, but I'm pretty sure the latest V4 entry is
Star Wars
4. We might need a more general discussion.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk)
23:04, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since my recent nomination to try and remove Tetris 4 failed, and I stopped agreeing with it myself after a while, I thought about the question of if any video games and/or franchises could meet the V4 criteria or not. While the pool is below ten, I think it narrowly is a yes. So I'm creating nominations for five standout games/series that had an undeniable impact on pop culture that goes well beyond video games alone, each having similar cultural consciousness to Tetris. I'm also prefering to propose franchises here, as for broadness. No swaps are being proposed here per similar reasons to why I didn't suggest any when nominating Toy Story, though anyone is free to suggest them.
One final note: I'm not saying all of these deserve to be added, but rather they are probably the best choices for V4, and I still maintain that Tetris 4 should not be the only V4 game. If some (or even all) fail, whatever. Without further ado... λ Negative MP1 20:37, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
An extremely popular and important Arcade game 4. In-fact, it's probably the most iconic and important one, possibly even more than Pong 5. Hell, the titular character is more considered recognizable than Mario 4. This game is easily on the same level as Tetris 4.
I'm not really sure if this one needs any further explanation. This franchise arguably saved video games in the west and created a cultural icon we already list at V4 Mario 4. The franchise is absolutely important and is generally what people think of when they think of a "video game." In a way, Mario is video games.
Similar to Super Mario, but on an ever so slightly smaller scale. This franchise is home to some of the highest rated video games of all time, including THE highest rated game of all time. It'd take more than one hand to count the times this franchise has changed video games and pop culture as a whole. Also, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 5 in particular I feel like could be considered the video game equivalent of Citizen Kane 4.
An absolutely massive game that completely changed the way video games were percieved by the world. It shifted the ways people thought video games could be, and may as well be the whole reason why some people think video games cause violence ( an example). It is to this day still considered one of the most important games ever made. And for more video game based details, it popularized 3D games, changed the way video games were manufactured, and the ways multiplayer was viewed. And if this holds any weight, its the only game proposed here directly considered part of the Game canon.
Previously failed here.-- LaukkuTheGreit ( Talk• Contribs) 07:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
An infamous franchise that I'm sure most people are aware of that changed the gaming industry (and public views on what media could be) time after time again. Games like Grand Theft Auto are probably the second most common view by the general public of what video games are, behind Super Mario.
I'm also going to make it clear that I thought about this for a few days on what games were objectively the most important. Other ones that I considered but intentionally did not nominate include the following: Final Fantasy 5, Minecraft 5 (failed recently), Pong 5 (previously removed), Call of Duty 5, and Space Invaders 5. λ Negative MP1 20:37, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
We don't list Brother 5 or Sister 5 when we list Sibling 4. I feel it would make sense to swap these two out. I might also consider removing either Parent 4 or both Father 4 and Mother 4. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Related discussion: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/Society#Add_Coup_d’etat
I am nominating this here although it isn't quite level 5 yet and will very likely be so once the discussion closes. There was also support to add this article to level 4 in that discussion and I think starting this discussion now is probably sufficient. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
We don't list the opposite which is Deposition (phase transition) so it would probably make sense to remove at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
The article was merged into Moggy 4, which has no interwikis. The content on "domestic short-haired cat" is less than 260 words. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
It is one type of Herding dog 4, which is already V4. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
This is an important state we don't list. It is higher in population and is similar in GDP to other states in India. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:29, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
There seems to be an issue with trying to reach quota. I was figuring that the way to solve this is to only allow additions if we are under quota and removals if we are over quota so that we can reach a reasonable compromise on what articles we can add and remove. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
I know we list Human behavior at L3, I think adding this article to level 4 would be helpful since it is important to cover the behavior of other organisms. Interstellarity ( talk) 23:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to move interwikis? Someone just did a bold merge with both domestic short-haired cat and domestic long-haired cat to moggy, and now all the original interwikis for both pages are sitting at redirect pages. SailorGardevoir ( talk) 10:26, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
I don't think it makes sense to list cousin when we don't list Uncle 5 or Aunt 5. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:58, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota in Level 4 and Booting 4 is nowhere near as important as other computer topics at this level. Given the rise of flash memory chips and instantaneous-booting, I am not sure that this is even a level 5 topic. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:38, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
These terms are important relatives of the family. They are a big part of many families. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
The opposite of Father and Mother, these should be listed since these are part of almost every family. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Similar to how we list Father and Mother, I see no issue with listing these two terms. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
We list anarchism, but not this article. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
We list the Chinese Communist Party 4 at this level, so it make sense to add the two major political parties in the US at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 22:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Per suggestion in Anarchy discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 19:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
A common concept which is a subtopic of suicide. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
May be a better addition than nonbinary. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Yes, Tyre is a historical city and appears in ancient history. It is one of the oldest continously inhabited cities, but it is continously inhabited, even today. We do list other ancient cities like Alexandria 4 and Syracuse, Sicily 4 in the Geography section, so I can't see why we shouldn't list Tyre there as well.
Just added to L5, might be worthy of L4. Interstellarity ( talk) 20:00, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
The major war of the last twenty years, it have a major impact on the global economy.
We use these everyday. Interstellarity ( talk) 15:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
We list Great Pyramid of Giza at level 3, so I think it makes sense to list this at level 4. Interstellarity ( talk) 12:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, the last thing we need is more rockers, but as you can see through this link, we don't have anyone from the alternative or punk scene. To me, this is a glaring omission, especially when it comes to alternative rock which has arguably been the main form of rock since it broke through. And no, the Velvet Underground does not count for either subgenre; alternative deserves to have someone whose music was made after the initial punk wave, while your average person is probably more likely to categorize VU as art/ experimental rock than proto-punk.
For alternative, I'm just going to go with the most obvious candidate. Although R.E.M. were technically the one who demonstrated the commercial viability of alternative rock with Out of Time (they're also usually held to be one of the first alt rock band), most people consider Smells Like Teen Spirit 5 to be thing that truly pushed alternative into the mainstream. There's also the whole "voice of the generation" personality cult that surrounds Kurt Cobain 5.
For punk, I'm not going to lie; it is kind of weird to nominate a band that's usually held to only have one album. But these guys played a huge rule in both spearheading the British punk scene and in shaping punk fashion. They also possess a notoriety that none of the other punk rockers really have.
The fertile crescent in the Near East is more a region that's relevant in geography even today, rather than a historical concept that happened in the past. The article even talks about biodiversity and climate before its history. So I'm proposing moving it away from Ancient History to Regions and country subdivisions.