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1.<The 'Oxford Companion to Art'> defines 'repoussoir' as "a strongly defined figure in the FOREGROUND of a picture to 'push back' or give depth to, and enhance the principal scene or episode'. On that basis, the figure on the right in the Rubens picture is the 'repoussoir'.
2.I do not think the figures, front-right, in the Caillebotte, could be described so either, as they tend to draw the eye out of the scene (of course in doing that, they DO emphasise the depth of the scene); but still, I would suggest, NOT 'repoussoir.
3.As for the tree in the Ruisdael,I would refer to it as a 'coulisse' -as in the <Cambridge Dictionary>, meaning 'wing (as in a theatre) I.E. something that functions as a framing device in the picture itself.
In short, it is the images that need to be replaced. I could suggest two Giotto's Arena Chapel images.
1. The 'Nativity scene', where the two angels on the far right direct our gaze inward towards the angels who are celebrating the birth over the roof of the stable and the sheep in the near right, several of which direct our view to Mary And Jesus.
And, 2. the Kiss of Judas, where the 'Pharisee' on the right directs our attention (and that of the soldiers) to Jesus John O'Riordan ( talk) 20:03, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
I realize I may be in the wrong place but here goes. Stubs are bad. We know that because we have a template that asks people to help improve each stub page and adds the page to a category. But some stubs, I submit, are permanent. An example is George A. Loyd. He was born in Ohio, served in the Civil War, was awarded the Medal of Honor before the language included "above and beyond," was discharged, and died in 1917. Loyd gets a page because of the Medal but that's the only reason. His page will never be anything BUT a stub. Do we need a template named "permstub" (or something) that acknowledges the fact of the "stubness" but doesn't put the page on a to-be-fixed list/category?-- Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 20:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Vipin Agnihotri is an award winning writer and film director. Rachitjournalist ( talk) 17:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
I got a question that I just recently thought of and want some input on. If an article that is deemed a Stub is not expanded upon by editors with additional information over a considerable period of time (i.e. more than four years), does it have a duration of notability on it under this circumstance, and if so, how long does that period last before it is considered that the notability of the subject should be questioned? GUtt01 ( talk) 11:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
In the introductory paragraph Wikipedia:Stub#Basic_information, the second bullet point following the "the distinction between dictionary and encyclopedia articles is best expressed by the use–mention distinction" phrase gives a wordy, accurate explanation, but I think some examples of good Articles for Wikipedia vs. dictionary articles would be helpful. And the link to "use-mention distinction" is pretty arcane to be useful. I'd toss out an example "example" but it's likely to not be too good of an example. I know quite well the difference but some concrete examples should be helpful here for the average new editor. MeekMark ( talk) 22:07, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
This is part of a discussion that I've started on WikiProject Templates to create a task force monitoring the unused templates on Wikipedia. According to one of the users, there are about 1,000 unused stub templates. Are any members of this project going to nominate them for a Tfd? It would help minimize the workload for the proposed task force. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 22:46, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
I cannot find any information on Wikipedia that references stub deletion, which is probably the answer to my question. I would like to know if there is a policy or guideline about deleting stubs. I am not the author of the stub. Thank you for any assistance. God bless and happy editing! MarydaleEd ( talk) 22:43, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab) § Why do we customize appearance of stub tags by topic?. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 00:27, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
is tabular content to be ignored in assessing whether an article is a stub? The list of [1] is full of articles - many election results, histories of sports events and the like - which are very substantial, but in table form, and it has been put to me that "We don't build articles out of tables. We build them out of prose. How is an article with just two articles of prose above a stub?" Rathfelder ( talk) 08:36, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Howdy. Is there any harm in creating templates in the form Template:LessCommonName-stub that redirect to Template:AlreadyExisting-stub? I've started doing this for some species/taxonomy stubs, e.g. Template:Parastacoidea-stub to Template:Crayfish-stub. This is helpful for one of my scripts, which relies on the taxonomic name when figuring out what stub to use. I realized I'm starting to make a bunch of these so I figured I'd better double check here. Thanks. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 02:36, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Some stubs say next to nothing, e.g. "Xtrynyr is a community in Ruritania", with no clue about where the information came from. A stub like this is annoying to users who follow the bluelink to Xtrynyr and find no useful information. This is to propose adding something like the following to this guideline:
Comments? Aymatth2 ( talk) 17:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
What Aymatth2 would be your minimum requirement? Like Ataliklikun Bay, Gbégourou or Axaren. Would Château de Gaujacq be acceptable to you given that sources and information is already there on French wikipedia? I'm gathering that most here (myself included) would frown against ones like Axaren which are as they stand useless. One fact and source minimum requirement I could agree on.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
"Which are as they stand are useless" and "are useless" are two different things. We are a wiki and content can be added within seconds/minutes if anybody wants to add it. I only start articles which I believe are notable topics and can be expanded. The idea Karanacs is that in a few years time we end up with hundreds of thousands of full length sourced articles!! The ultimate goal is that by 2015 we see many articles started developed like this. Tall order perhaps but the world is a big place!! I create them because I feel it is important for us to cover notable topics which get excluded due to bias and want us to at least try to start covering the world evenly! OK maybe start the article will not change the fact that many are no interested in Swedish lakes but that doesn't make them unencyclopedic.. I could accept a rule that "if a reader visits an article he MUST be able to learn one fact at bare minimum about that subject". So for a town a population figure or location information in relation to other settlements, with rivers or lakes an area/length figure, with mountains an altitude figure etc. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
@Aymatth2 In my opinion Château de Gaujacq if the 1686 fact was sourced that would be bare minimum right?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Coming from the discussion at ANI, my issue with auto creation of very short stubs that are obviously verifiable is that they lack notability. Notability's only a guideline, and of course there are some classes of articles like geographical features that are generally accepted on the long-term presumption of notability, but these present a problem when we're ready to willy-nilly delete articles on television episodes, fictional characters, garage bands, local businesses, etc. I fully understand the difference, but it is very hard to quell the calls that call out to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS by the newer users that see these articles get deleted while we have stubby articles on a river that only 100 people in the world may even know about. Personally, articles that are likely going to be stubs for a long long time should instead be created as redirects to a list of such notable features, so that when that stub actually can be expanded, its a non-admin action that any editor can undertake. -- MASEM ( t) 20:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I disagree. A notable topic will always be notable however short. The problem as you say is that some of them may take an awful amount of time to be developed. IN regards to settlements time and time again I've requested a bot creates lists of settlements in a table like List of populated places in Peru by country using coordinates from geonames and we redirect until enough info can be found to create half decent articles. Given that there appears to be support for this why didn't any of you lot support me for I proposed this huh? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree Edison, new stubs should really contain one fact and one source standard procedure. @Karanacs do you think Watom Island, Urara Island, Ataliklikun Bay, Ningi Chiefdom, Buta Territory are useless stubs or do you see them as a positive move towards covering poorly documented parts of the world and addressing systematic bias?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
There should be no limit to how many stubs we can create. If I [we] need to destroy all the red links by creating every village in China, I will do so at a reasonable speed. We are here to build an encyclopedia, not to finish it. I rest my case! Jaguar ( talk) 21:11, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
If you look at the new pages right you'll find worse articles than stub I created which are poorly formatted, unsourced, lacking basic wikification/categories. At least my measliest stubs have the "infrastructure" in place. Its a big problem that we don't have enough editors to sort out all of the new ones coming in. Helmipuuro for instance is unsourced but clearly looks notable but are we to reject it for not having sources? And how many newish editors know how the referencing works? I didn't for quite some time.
The way I see it is that we are here to provide the most comprehensive encyclopedia we can possibly create and that ignoring 700 rivers of some province of a country is a wiki sin! Especially if the article equivalent on another wikipedia is very developed and sourced. In my view the article existing at least shows it as been highlighted as being notable, even if initally lacking in content. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:52, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
In regards to myself I only create unsourced stubs on topics intended to be directly transferred from another wikipedia. I have proposed a User:Transwikibot which uses google translate to auto generate articles in our wikipedia space and once checked/proof read and a source or two added they can simply be moved into the mainspace. I would strongly urge people here to support me on this as you'd no longer see the pathetic attempts to transfer content but a system in which more fuller articles could be create relatively quickly piece by piece. Of course some translations i certian languages are better than others but if we had a bot creating an english equivalent of eveyr missing article on another wikipedia in our work space we would be much more organized. I think most people here grossly underestimate the value of missing articles on other wikipedias. I want WP:Intertranswiki to be much more organized and constructive and to have the ability to generate articles more fully first time with minimum effort. That's one of the key problems in this, is sheer mass of missing content and amount of time. We desperately need something powerful to get us organized.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I think the point of the discussions that took place elsewhere, which is being entirely missed here is not that what you guys are doing/want to do is "wrong", just that your priorities are deeply misplaced. Also see my comments at Jimbo's page [2]. Volunteer Marek 23:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The purpose of Wikipedia is to provide useful and verifiable information to readers in an accessible form. The question is whether the WP:Stub guideline should explicitly say that stubs should give some useful information and provide at least one source, and that stubs that have no useful information and/or do not quote any source should be "deprecated". My view is that such stubs do not help readers or editors. The comment right at the start of this discussion from Redrose64 ( talk · contribs) is hard to dispute: "Such pages may be eligible for speedy deletion under WP:CSD#A3". The question is really whether the WP:Stub guideline should restate policy, or at least I think it is. There is no hurry at all, but perhaps at some point a straw poll would be useful. Aymatth2 ( talk) 02:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't think there should be a minimum size. I do think we can make a requirement that batch creation of stubs should meet some minimal standards, like having at least one reliable source (not a foreign wikipedia version or other wikiproject). And we can also wonder why identical one-line stubs (whether sourced or not) like X is a river in Y can not be more efficiently be grouped in a list (or number of lists), "list of rivers in Y", with redirects from the individual articles. It seems to me to be a lot more reader-friendly to group such clearly related info, instead of having so many articles almost entirely void of meaningful info. Fram ( talk) 09:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
"And we can also wonder why identical one-line stubs (whether sourced or not) like X is a river in Y can not be more efficiently be grouped in a list (or number of lists), "list of rivers in Y", with redirects from the individual articles. " Well the answer is simple to that one, many of the river articles have full content article son the other wiki which is intended to be translated. Given that we are not paper and space it not an issue, it would be more productive to fully translate.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:08, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
You mentioned Aspen (Botkyrka Municipality) . Well its better off having its own article as the vast majority of the others are.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:59, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
As far as this discussion is in effect a proposal to require at least one source for a stub, I'd like to point you all to Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_75#Require_all_new_articles_to_contain_at_least_one_source, a proposal from July 2011 that failed after a good deal of community discussion. No use beating a dead horse here on a relatively obscure talk page, where this proposal has already failed after a broader discussion. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 14:43, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps some attention should be given to WP:MASSCREATION, which is part of a policy. Basically, there is no difference between rapidly creating 50 microstubs with "subst:pagename is a river in Poland" and what is described in that bot policy. So why are these creations not restricted by that same policy? Fram ( talk) 15:19, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
See discussions above on concerns regarding the usefulness of directory style or very short stubs. Aymatth2 has proposed some new wording (#1) and I have added three more:-
Please indicate if you support or oppose any or all of the suggestions. Further suggestions and amendments are invited and welcome. SilkTork ✔Tea time 02:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't see a consensus for change emerging from this. People feel that we don't need any further guidance which might discourage the creation of stubs per se, and that existing guidelines and consensus are in place to allow the deletion or redirection of clearly inappropriate stubs. I will remove the listing from CENT. SilkTork ✔Tea time 10:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Wikipedia:Stub has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The information is not correct. The cricket Association of Cambodia is not legitimate body of cricket in Cambodia. There is no national team in Cambodia. As per law of association in Cambodia the Association must be registered with Ministry of Interior Royal government of Cambodia. 43.226.13.8 ( talk) 12:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
I'm finding that lately, a lot of people seem to think that "stub" means "literally any article that isn't FA". Like, look at Carol, Carl, Whoopi and Robin. That was tagged as a stub. What exactly is causing overzealous stub tagging like this? Should the entire stub system be overhauled? Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 23:14, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Since bots and
WP:AWB are setup to automatically add that extra newline, removing it is largely useless, but most editors do not know about this guideline and instinctively remove one of them whenever they see two. Using two blank lines (ie three newlines) is generally frowned upon, not just on WP, and that for good reasons. If we can agree that the spacing above the first stub template is something we want, then let's fix that in CSS. The :first-of-type
selector is
supported in all modern browsers. This works in Chrome 49:
.stub:first-of-type { margin-top: 2rem; }
To see it in action, go to an article with more than one stub templates (eg Solenopora) and add the CSS (in Google Chrome: Developer Tool --> Elements --> "+").
If this is not possible for some reason, I think we need to pick one of the two styles and stick with it. It makes little sense to allow bots/AWB to make this change en masse (that is there's consensus for two blank lines) while at the same time calling it "usually desirable" (consensus to use either). jonkerz ♠ talk 16:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
When there are no blank lines before the first stub template, I add one; where there are three or more, I reduce them to two. But if there are either one or two, I leave them alone.(it's still on this page, unarchived). Nobody has yet complained about me doing that, and so I still follow that practice. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 11:18, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Two blank lines may no longer be strictly needed since there are other mechanisms to achieve the same effect. However, leaving one blank line is still necessary. Many editors simply add new categories to the end of what they perceive as being the category list without noticing whether the last item on the list is actually a stub template. This makes manual hunting for stubs (in order to remove or sort them) and repositioning of them at the end of the category list a much slower task. For that reason, "Leave a blank line" seems like the optimal instruction. Grutness... wha? 01:45, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm in favor of giving clear direction on this. I don't think that the leaving at least on blank line makes it easier to find the stub tag(s) is a bullshit argument. I'd like it if we could make things look nice and consistent with 0, 1 or 2 blank lines. Maybe there's some template magic that can achieve that and make this discussion a little less important. Not that it's actually all that important as things stand :) ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:13, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
There are two different issues involved here:
Peter coxhead ( talk) 21:20, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
don't change explicit "two blank lines" to explicit "a blank line", change it to "either one or two blank lines". I have come up with some CSS which will give an increased top margin to the first stub template of a group, leaving the other members of the group alone:
/* Increased top margin for first stub on page */
table.stub { margin-top: 4em; }
/* but normal for second and subsequent */
table.stub + table.stub { margin-top: 0; }
4em
to something else. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 07:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)<aside>...</aside>
tag. It would be nice to semantically separate the housekeeping material at the code level. Marked up this way, one blank line might be enough for editors, and spacing at the reader level adjusted with CSS. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 02:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)Pbsouthwood ( talk · contribs) has added this clarification request. I have traced the earliest form of that sentence to this edit at 21:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC) by SMcCandlish ( talk · contribs). It seems to have lost the last phrase at some point. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 13:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 |
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1.<The 'Oxford Companion to Art'> defines 'repoussoir' as "a strongly defined figure in the FOREGROUND of a picture to 'push back' or give depth to, and enhance the principal scene or episode'. On that basis, the figure on the right in the Rubens picture is the 'repoussoir'.
2.I do not think the figures, front-right, in the Caillebotte, could be described so either, as they tend to draw the eye out of the scene (of course in doing that, they DO emphasise the depth of the scene); but still, I would suggest, NOT 'repoussoir.
3.As for the tree in the Ruisdael,I would refer to it as a 'coulisse' -as in the <Cambridge Dictionary>, meaning 'wing (as in a theatre) I.E. something that functions as a framing device in the picture itself.
In short, it is the images that need to be replaced. I could suggest two Giotto's Arena Chapel images.
1. The 'Nativity scene', where the two angels on the far right direct our gaze inward towards the angels who are celebrating the birth over the roof of the stable and the sheep in the near right, several of which direct our view to Mary And Jesus.
And, 2. the Kiss of Judas, where the 'Pharisee' on the right directs our attention (and that of the soldiers) to Jesus John O'Riordan ( talk) 20:03, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
I realize I may be in the wrong place but here goes. Stubs are bad. We know that because we have a template that asks people to help improve each stub page and adds the page to a category. But some stubs, I submit, are permanent. An example is George A. Loyd. He was born in Ohio, served in the Civil War, was awarded the Medal of Honor before the language included "above and beyond," was discharged, and died in 1917. Loyd gets a page because of the Medal but that's the only reason. His page will never be anything BUT a stub. Do we need a template named "permstub" (or something) that acknowledges the fact of the "stubness" but doesn't put the page on a to-be-fixed list/category?-- Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 20:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Vipin Agnihotri is an award winning writer and film director. Rachitjournalist ( talk) 17:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
I got a question that I just recently thought of and want some input on. If an article that is deemed a Stub is not expanded upon by editors with additional information over a considerable period of time (i.e. more than four years), does it have a duration of notability on it under this circumstance, and if so, how long does that period last before it is considered that the notability of the subject should be questioned? GUtt01 ( talk) 11:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
In the introductory paragraph Wikipedia:Stub#Basic_information, the second bullet point following the "the distinction between dictionary and encyclopedia articles is best expressed by the use–mention distinction" phrase gives a wordy, accurate explanation, but I think some examples of good Articles for Wikipedia vs. dictionary articles would be helpful. And the link to "use-mention distinction" is pretty arcane to be useful. I'd toss out an example "example" but it's likely to not be too good of an example. I know quite well the difference but some concrete examples should be helpful here for the average new editor. MeekMark ( talk) 22:07, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
This is part of a discussion that I've started on WikiProject Templates to create a task force monitoring the unused templates on Wikipedia. According to one of the users, there are about 1,000 unused stub templates. Are any members of this project going to nominate them for a Tfd? It would help minimize the workload for the proposed task force. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 22:46, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
I cannot find any information on Wikipedia that references stub deletion, which is probably the answer to my question. I would like to know if there is a policy or guideline about deleting stubs. I am not the author of the stub. Thank you for any assistance. God bless and happy editing! MarydaleEd ( talk) 22:43, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab) § Why do we customize appearance of stub tags by topic?. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 00:27, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
is tabular content to be ignored in assessing whether an article is a stub? The list of [1] is full of articles - many election results, histories of sports events and the like - which are very substantial, but in table form, and it has been put to me that "We don't build articles out of tables. We build them out of prose. How is an article with just two articles of prose above a stub?" Rathfelder ( talk) 08:36, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Howdy. Is there any harm in creating templates in the form Template:LessCommonName-stub that redirect to Template:AlreadyExisting-stub? I've started doing this for some species/taxonomy stubs, e.g. Template:Parastacoidea-stub to Template:Crayfish-stub. This is helpful for one of my scripts, which relies on the taxonomic name when figuring out what stub to use. I realized I'm starting to make a bunch of these so I figured I'd better double check here. Thanks. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 02:36, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Some stubs say next to nothing, e.g. "Xtrynyr is a community in Ruritania", with no clue about where the information came from. A stub like this is annoying to users who follow the bluelink to Xtrynyr and find no useful information. This is to propose adding something like the following to this guideline:
Comments? Aymatth2 ( talk) 17:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
What Aymatth2 would be your minimum requirement? Like Ataliklikun Bay, Gbégourou or Axaren. Would Château de Gaujacq be acceptable to you given that sources and information is already there on French wikipedia? I'm gathering that most here (myself included) would frown against ones like Axaren which are as they stand useless. One fact and source minimum requirement I could agree on.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
"Which are as they stand are useless" and "are useless" are two different things. We are a wiki and content can be added within seconds/minutes if anybody wants to add it. I only start articles which I believe are notable topics and can be expanded. The idea Karanacs is that in a few years time we end up with hundreds of thousands of full length sourced articles!! The ultimate goal is that by 2015 we see many articles started developed like this. Tall order perhaps but the world is a big place!! I create them because I feel it is important for us to cover notable topics which get excluded due to bias and want us to at least try to start covering the world evenly! OK maybe start the article will not change the fact that many are no interested in Swedish lakes but that doesn't make them unencyclopedic.. I could accept a rule that "if a reader visits an article he MUST be able to learn one fact at bare minimum about that subject". So for a town a population figure or location information in relation to other settlements, with rivers or lakes an area/length figure, with mountains an altitude figure etc. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
@Aymatth2 In my opinion Château de Gaujacq if the 1686 fact was sourced that would be bare minimum right?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Coming from the discussion at ANI, my issue with auto creation of very short stubs that are obviously verifiable is that they lack notability. Notability's only a guideline, and of course there are some classes of articles like geographical features that are generally accepted on the long-term presumption of notability, but these present a problem when we're ready to willy-nilly delete articles on television episodes, fictional characters, garage bands, local businesses, etc. I fully understand the difference, but it is very hard to quell the calls that call out to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS by the newer users that see these articles get deleted while we have stubby articles on a river that only 100 people in the world may even know about. Personally, articles that are likely going to be stubs for a long long time should instead be created as redirects to a list of such notable features, so that when that stub actually can be expanded, its a non-admin action that any editor can undertake. -- MASEM ( t) 20:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I disagree. A notable topic will always be notable however short. The problem as you say is that some of them may take an awful amount of time to be developed. IN regards to settlements time and time again I've requested a bot creates lists of settlements in a table like List of populated places in Peru by country using coordinates from geonames and we redirect until enough info can be found to create half decent articles. Given that there appears to be support for this why didn't any of you lot support me for I proposed this huh? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree Edison, new stubs should really contain one fact and one source standard procedure. @Karanacs do you think Watom Island, Urara Island, Ataliklikun Bay, Ningi Chiefdom, Buta Territory are useless stubs or do you see them as a positive move towards covering poorly documented parts of the world and addressing systematic bias?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
There should be no limit to how many stubs we can create. If I [we] need to destroy all the red links by creating every village in China, I will do so at a reasonable speed. We are here to build an encyclopedia, not to finish it. I rest my case! Jaguar ( talk) 21:11, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
If you look at the new pages right you'll find worse articles than stub I created which are poorly formatted, unsourced, lacking basic wikification/categories. At least my measliest stubs have the "infrastructure" in place. Its a big problem that we don't have enough editors to sort out all of the new ones coming in. Helmipuuro for instance is unsourced but clearly looks notable but are we to reject it for not having sources? And how many newish editors know how the referencing works? I didn't for quite some time.
The way I see it is that we are here to provide the most comprehensive encyclopedia we can possibly create and that ignoring 700 rivers of some province of a country is a wiki sin! Especially if the article equivalent on another wikipedia is very developed and sourced. In my view the article existing at least shows it as been highlighted as being notable, even if initally lacking in content. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:52, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
In regards to myself I only create unsourced stubs on topics intended to be directly transferred from another wikipedia. I have proposed a User:Transwikibot which uses google translate to auto generate articles in our wikipedia space and once checked/proof read and a source or two added they can simply be moved into the mainspace. I would strongly urge people here to support me on this as you'd no longer see the pathetic attempts to transfer content but a system in which more fuller articles could be create relatively quickly piece by piece. Of course some translations i certian languages are better than others but if we had a bot creating an english equivalent of eveyr missing article on another wikipedia in our work space we would be much more organized. I think most people here grossly underestimate the value of missing articles on other wikipedias. I want WP:Intertranswiki to be much more organized and constructive and to have the ability to generate articles more fully first time with minimum effort. That's one of the key problems in this, is sheer mass of missing content and amount of time. We desperately need something powerful to get us organized.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I think the point of the discussions that took place elsewhere, which is being entirely missed here is not that what you guys are doing/want to do is "wrong", just that your priorities are deeply misplaced. Also see my comments at Jimbo's page [2]. Volunteer Marek 23:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The purpose of Wikipedia is to provide useful and verifiable information to readers in an accessible form. The question is whether the WP:Stub guideline should explicitly say that stubs should give some useful information and provide at least one source, and that stubs that have no useful information and/or do not quote any source should be "deprecated". My view is that such stubs do not help readers or editors. The comment right at the start of this discussion from Redrose64 ( talk · contribs) is hard to dispute: "Such pages may be eligible for speedy deletion under WP:CSD#A3". The question is really whether the WP:Stub guideline should restate policy, or at least I think it is. There is no hurry at all, but perhaps at some point a straw poll would be useful. Aymatth2 ( talk) 02:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't think there should be a minimum size. I do think we can make a requirement that batch creation of stubs should meet some minimal standards, like having at least one reliable source (not a foreign wikipedia version or other wikiproject). And we can also wonder why identical one-line stubs (whether sourced or not) like X is a river in Y can not be more efficiently be grouped in a list (or number of lists), "list of rivers in Y", with redirects from the individual articles. It seems to me to be a lot more reader-friendly to group such clearly related info, instead of having so many articles almost entirely void of meaningful info. Fram ( talk) 09:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
"And we can also wonder why identical one-line stubs (whether sourced or not) like X is a river in Y can not be more efficiently be grouped in a list (or number of lists), "list of rivers in Y", with redirects from the individual articles. " Well the answer is simple to that one, many of the river articles have full content article son the other wiki which is intended to be translated. Given that we are not paper and space it not an issue, it would be more productive to fully translate.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:08, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
You mentioned Aspen (Botkyrka Municipality) . Well its better off having its own article as the vast majority of the others are.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:59, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
As far as this discussion is in effect a proposal to require at least one source for a stub, I'd like to point you all to Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_75#Require_all_new_articles_to_contain_at_least_one_source, a proposal from July 2011 that failed after a good deal of community discussion. No use beating a dead horse here on a relatively obscure talk page, where this proposal has already failed after a broader discussion. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 14:43, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps some attention should be given to WP:MASSCREATION, which is part of a policy. Basically, there is no difference between rapidly creating 50 microstubs with "subst:pagename is a river in Poland" and what is described in that bot policy. So why are these creations not restricted by that same policy? Fram ( talk) 15:19, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
See discussions above on concerns regarding the usefulness of directory style or very short stubs. Aymatth2 has proposed some new wording (#1) and I have added three more:-
Please indicate if you support or oppose any or all of the suggestions. Further suggestions and amendments are invited and welcome. SilkTork ✔Tea time 02:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't see a consensus for change emerging from this. People feel that we don't need any further guidance which might discourage the creation of stubs per se, and that existing guidelines and consensus are in place to allow the deletion or redirection of clearly inappropriate stubs. I will remove the listing from CENT. SilkTork ✔Tea time 10:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Wikipedia:Stub has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The information is not correct. The cricket Association of Cambodia is not legitimate body of cricket in Cambodia. There is no national team in Cambodia. As per law of association in Cambodia the Association must be registered with Ministry of Interior Royal government of Cambodia. 43.226.13.8 ( talk) 12:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
I'm finding that lately, a lot of people seem to think that "stub" means "literally any article that isn't FA". Like, look at Carol, Carl, Whoopi and Robin. That was tagged as a stub. What exactly is causing overzealous stub tagging like this? Should the entire stub system be overhauled? Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 23:14, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Since bots and
WP:AWB are setup to automatically add that extra newline, removing it is largely useless, but most editors do not know about this guideline and instinctively remove one of them whenever they see two. Using two blank lines (ie three newlines) is generally frowned upon, not just on WP, and that for good reasons. If we can agree that the spacing above the first stub template is something we want, then let's fix that in CSS. The :first-of-type
selector is
supported in all modern browsers. This works in Chrome 49:
.stub:first-of-type { margin-top: 2rem; }
To see it in action, go to an article with more than one stub templates (eg Solenopora) and add the CSS (in Google Chrome: Developer Tool --> Elements --> "+").
If this is not possible for some reason, I think we need to pick one of the two styles and stick with it. It makes little sense to allow bots/AWB to make this change en masse (that is there's consensus for two blank lines) while at the same time calling it "usually desirable" (consensus to use either). jonkerz ♠ talk 16:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
When there are no blank lines before the first stub template, I add one; where there are three or more, I reduce them to two. But if there are either one or two, I leave them alone.(it's still on this page, unarchived). Nobody has yet complained about me doing that, and so I still follow that practice. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 11:18, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Two blank lines may no longer be strictly needed since there are other mechanisms to achieve the same effect. However, leaving one blank line is still necessary. Many editors simply add new categories to the end of what they perceive as being the category list without noticing whether the last item on the list is actually a stub template. This makes manual hunting for stubs (in order to remove or sort them) and repositioning of them at the end of the category list a much slower task. For that reason, "Leave a blank line" seems like the optimal instruction. Grutness... wha? 01:45, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm in favor of giving clear direction on this. I don't think that the leaving at least on blank line makes it easier to find the stub tag(s) is a bullshit argument. I'd like it if we could make things look nice and consistent with 0, 1 or 2 blank lines. Maybe there's some template magic that can achieve that and make this discussion a little less important. Not that it's actually all that important as things stand :) ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:13, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
There are two different issues involved here:
Peter coxhead ( talk) 21:20, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
don't change explicit "two blank lines" to explicit "a blank line", change it to "either one or two blank lines". I have come up with some CSS which will give an increased top margin to the first stub template of a group, leaving the other members of the group alone:
/* Increased top margin for first stub on page */
table.stub { margin-top: 4em; }
/* but normal for second and subsequent */
table.stub + table.stub { margin-top: 0; }
4em
to something else. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 07:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)<aside>...</aside>
tag. It would be nice to semantically separate the housekeeping material at the code level. Marked up this way, one blank line might be enough for editors, and spacing at the reader level adjusted with CSS. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 02:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)Pbsouthwood ( talk · contribs) has added this clarification request. I have traced the earliest form of that sentence to this edit at 21:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC) by SMcCandlish ( talk · contribs). It seems to have lost the last phrase at some point. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 13:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC)